The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

On the other hand, many things that I dislike about the movie, like the over reliance on quips, the pointless shock death of Quicksilver (that they couldn't even shot well!), the equally pointless romance between Nat and Bruce, making Nat not only a pointless damsel but giving her so many very female specific issues (being sterilized, her being weirdly both maternal to the Hulk but being the lover of Bruce), thats all just classic Whedon. The guy will just never take responsibility for his own shit, its always someone elses fault when his work does not get universal praise. 

I’m starting to feel that less is more when it comes to writers and directors. Once you hit two or three movies in a row from the same people the flaws in their style becomes more and more pronounced. 

That’s part of the reason why I’m interested in the next phase of the MCU because the Russo movies are great but it’s time for a creative shake up. 

[Jeebus Cripes]

22 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

On the other hand, many things that I dislike about the movie, like the over reliance on quips, the pointless shock death of Quicksilver (that they couldn't even shot well!), the equally pointless romance between Nat and Bruce, making Nat not only a pointless damsel but giving her so many very female specific issues (being sterilized, her being weirdly both maternal to the Hulk but being the lover of Bruce), thats all just classic Whedon. The guy will just never take responsibility for his own shit, its always someone elses fault when his work does not get universal praise. 

That Nat/Bruce shit came out of nowhere and seemed like his own fanboy fantasy. I also have an aversion to the constant quips. Sometimes they land, but when they don't they are so painfully bad. Toads and lightening.... I get second hand embarrassment just thinking about that shit. I heard he tried to defend that by saying it wasn't delivered properly. Christ on a cracker. Halle Berry's acting was awful in those films, but a garbage line is a garbage line. Period.

[Dandesun]

39 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

On the other hand, many things that I dislike about the movie, like the over reliance on quips, the pointless shock death of Quicksilver (that they couldn't even shot well!), the equally pointless romance between Nat and Bruce, making Nat not only a pointless damsel but giving her so many very female specific issues (being sterilized, her being weirdly both maternal to the Hulk but being the lover of Bruce), thats all just classic Whedon. The guy will just never take responsibility for his own shit, its always someone elses fault when his work does not get universal praise. 

The thing is, I found the CONCEPT of Nat/Bruce interesting even if the insta-love... particularly Nat just going 'I adore you!' was off-putting. I could easily, EASILY, see Natasha being drawn to Bruce for the very reasons she stated at the party... that he was easily the strongest of them but tried not to fight because of that. I think I could easily see Natasha being intrigued by Bruce as a person and wanting to take him as a lover for a brief time because of that. Unfortunately, they instead went the route of 'We can't have kids, we have no future, blah blah what the fuck ever!'

If neither of them feel they are able to have the 'white picket fence, 2.5 kids and a dog' future (for whatever bullshit "monster" reasons they have) there's no fucking reason on earth (or beyond) they can't enjoy each other in the meantime. Welcome to the 21st century, people, you can be interested in someone and not be with them for the rest of your life.

22 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

And speaking of X-men (and I know this is probably sacrilegious) but when they do appear in the MCU I hope their are no mutant prejudice is a thinly veiled version of racism storylines. Because not only are they so played out, but even when reading comics they made no sense. How could people be ok with Captain America getting his powers from science  (or whoever) but be scared/hate cyclops who got his powers from a mutant gene.

Yeah, the concept of people being freaked out over a genetic thing vs totally fine with those who either actively pursued super powers or got them completely by accident in a different way never fully worked. The idea of mutants protecting the lives of those who hate and fear them is very HERO-Y and the parallels between racial tension, sexual orientation, xenophobia can certainly be drawn but, also, the analogy does fall apart if you look at it too closely.

It's like... okay, so Spider-Man gets bit by a radioactive spider. Sure. Is this common knowledge? Was there ever an actual scare about radioactive insects in New York? There are an awful lot of bugs out there... also, what if people wanted to get super powers and went out of their way to get bit by bugs in the hopes that it would transfer but ended up dying because they got bit by a totally normal black widow or something?

This unbelievable prejudice (and the general populace of X-Men comics do tend to be the villagers of the pitchfork and torch bearing variety) just doesn't work across the board. Especially since mutants can join the Avengers and be beloved but then go back to the X-Men and he hated. Um. What?!

8 minutes ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

That Nat/Bruce shit came out of nowhere and seemed like his own fanboy fantasy. I also have an aversion to the constant quips. Sometimes they land, but when they don't they are so painfully bad. Toads and lightening.... I get second hand embarrassment just thinking about that shit. I heard he tried to defend that by saying it wasn't delivered properly. Christ on a cracker. Halle Berry's acting was awful in those films, but a garbage line is a garbage line. Period.

How they did with Rogue and Storm in the movies were one of the reasons I remained deeply deeply uncertain about how they were going to portray Cap and Thor. Fox -- particularly Bryan Singer -- never managed to grasp the embarrassment of riches they had with the X-Men and that remains endlessly frustrating for me.

[Bruinsfan]

I can actually see the mutant issue causing some worry for people because potentially their kids could randomly turn out to be mutants, whereas getting bitten by radioactive spiders or exposed to cosmic rays during a spaceflight are quite a bit less likely. But it's a long way from that to paranoid torch-bearing mobs in the streets like the comics have sometimes literally featured.

[Jeebus Cripes]

39 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

I can actually see the mutant issue causing some worry for people because potentially their kids could randomly turn out to be mutants, whereas getting bitten by radioactive spiders or exposed to cosmic rays during a spaceflight are quite a bit less likely. But it's a long way from that to paranoid torch-bearing mobs in the streets like the comics have sometimes literally featured.

It's also the fear of becoming the minority, since the mutant gene is the next step in evolution. I can see a certain demographic of humans getting butthurt over the whole Homo sapiens superior thing. Anyone can potentially turn into a Hulk or Spider-Man, but these mutants are born special. Haters gonna hate and all that. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

It's also the fear of becoming the minority, since the mutant gene is the next step in evolution. I can see a certain demographic of humans getting butthurt over the whole Homo sapiens superior thing. Anyone can potentially turn into a Hulk or Spider-Man, but these mutants are born special. Haters gonna hate and all that. 

Plus a portion of the population becoming unusually powerful will make many people feel vulnerable. One mutant serial killer and torch-bearing mobs might be not be entirely unrealistic. 

[Fukui San]

A shared superhero universe means accepting that things don't really make sense if you think about it too much because so many weird and contradictory things lay side by side with one another.

Like... Nick Fury never was tempted to touch that beeper to Captain Marvel during any of previous movies? Like "Hey, CM! We got Motherfuckin' Chitauri in Motherfuckin' New York! Care to lend a hand?"

So yes. Avengers are beloved and X-Men feared and hated. And they live like five towns over from one another. Just accept it.

[Perfect Xero]

4 hours ago, Fukui San said:

A shared superhero universe means accepting that things don't really make sense if you think about it too much because so many weird and contradictory things lay side by side with one another.

Like... Nick Fury never was tempted to touch that beeper to Captain Marvel during any of previous movies? Like "Hey, CM! We got Motherfuckin' Chitauri in Motherfuckin' New York! Care to lend a hand?"

So yes. Avengers are beloved and X-Men feared and hated. And they live like five towns over from one another. Just accept it.

From the CM credits scene it took her long enough to respond that the Avengers managed to get home from Wakanda, find the pager, get it to their base, and set up a whole monitoring thing for it.

I like to imagine that he did use it, it just took Carol long enough to respond that the Avengers had wrapped things up by the time she got there.

"I'm here Nick, what's the situation?"

"A Norse god named Loki was attacking New York with an alien army, but his brother Thor teamed up with Captain America, a green rage monster, a Russian spy, a guy with a bow and arrows, and a rich guy in a robot suit to stop them. We're good, thanks for coming."

"Well, obviously I have questions."

Edited May 14, 2019 by Perfect Xero

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, Fukui San said:

A shared superhero universe means accepting that things don't really make sense if you think about it too much because so many weird and contradictory things lay side by side with one another.

Like... Nick Fury never was tempted to touch that beeper to Captain Marvel during any of previous movies? Like "Hey, CM! We got Motherfuckin' Chitauri in Motherfuckin' New York! Care to lend a hand?"

So yes. Avengers are beloved and X-Men feared and hated. And they live like five towns over from one another. Just accept it.

Yea I get that it is a weird comics thing. From what I remember Stan Lee came up with mutants because he was having difficulty coming up with individual origin stories for every hero. It is more that I am just tired of seeing it. They seem to use it in every X-men story (comics, movies, TV). Let Magneto deal with actual anti-semitism rather than mutant hatred for once. Or tell a story that doesn't involve that metaphor.

[Kel Varnsen]

13 hours ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

That Nat/Bruce shit came out of nowhere and seemed like his own fanboy fantasy. I also have an aversion to the constant quips. Sometimes they land, but when they don't they are so painfully bad. Toads and lightening.... I get second hand embarrassment just thinking about that shit. I heard he tried to defend that by saying it wasn't delivered properly. Christ on a cracker. Halle Berry's acting was awful in those films, but a garbage line is a garbage line. Period.

Ugh the quips. The worst offender was probably the pilot of Agents of SHIELD that Whedon co-wrote and directed. They are supposed to be a professional spy organization (they are all wearing suits) but every damn person is making quips, insults and one liners like they were Buffy and her high school friends.

[benteen]

X-Men are my absolute favorite comics but yeah, it never has made any sense that the humanity is prejudiced against them while they are just peachy with non-mutants heroes like The Avengers and Fantastic Four.  It's an angle that's played up more and more in the comics and makes less and less sense.

In the Fox movies, it makes sense because there are no other superheroes in that universe.  Prejudice of course is still completely wrong but at least it makes a lot more sense for humanity to be afraid of mutants in this world.

[Morrigan2575]

16 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

And speaking of X-men (and I know this is probably sacrilegious) but when they do appear in the MCU I hope their are no mutant prejudice is a thinly veiled version of racism storylines. Because not only are they so played out, but even when reading comics they made no sense. How could people be ok with Captain America getting his powers from science  (or whoever) but be scared/hate cyclops who got his powers from a mutant gene.

Give our current global state i think they almost have to go that route.  The X-Men were always stand-ins for whatever was the big issue of the decade.  60's = Racism, 80's = Homophobia (pretty sure that Legacy Virus was reflective of HIV/AIDS, 2020's = Islamophobia/Anti-Semites?  I mean the Friends of Humanity (FOH) are practically that same group that marched on Charlotte.  It would almost be odd that they skipped over something that's such a huge part of what makes the X-Men, the X-Men.

As for why FOH hate Mutants but, not people given powers by science or accidents or whatever.  Maybe that's the whole point, hatred/bias/racism/phobias are blind and stupid and ignorant.

[benteen]

Endgame reinforced my desire to see a 70s SHIELD movie.

Edited May 14, 2019 by benteen

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Give our current global state i think they almost have to go that route.  The X-Men were always stand-ins for whatever was the big issue of the decade.  60's = Racism, 80's = Homophobia (pretty sure that Legacy Virus was reflective of HIV/AIDS, 2020's = Islamophobia/Anti-Semites?  I mean the Friends of Humanity (FOH) are practically that same group that marched on Charlotte.  It would almost be odd that they skipped over something that's such a huge part of what makes the X-Men, the X-Men.

As for why FOH hate Mutants but, not people given powers by science or accidents or whatever.  Maybe that's the whole point, hatred/bias/racism/phobias are blind and stupid and ignorant.

So let them fight actual asshole racists. I just find the metaphor tired and been used too much, it seems like every version/medium that has told X-men stories has done that storyline. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So let them fight actual asshole racists. I just find the metaphor tired and been used too much, it seems like every version/medium that has told X-men stories has done that storyline. 

Oh, that I'm all for. Let them fight a group that hates all others. Just wrap it up in a single bundle where mutants are just one of the things hated.

[tennisgurl]

I can kind of get why people have issues with mutants more than other people with powers (even though in the comics they turned on pretty much every hero at the drop of a hat and were quick to call anyone "freaks" the assholes), but I also hope they do a different plot with the X-Men. Yeah them being a stand in for a persecuted minority is their bread and butter, but we get it so much in X-Men media, and now we have so many shows and movies and such that have done the same thing, just with aliens or witches or zombies or whatever, even within this very franchise, I would like for them to mix it up. Have them fight some other bad guys, maybe go to space, just something different! Something other than "humans are dicks and hate mutants for stupid reasons and want to round them up and experiment on them" for the 1009th time.

[Jeebus Cripes]

14 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Yea I get that it is a weird comics thing. From what I remember Stan Lee came up with mutants because he was having difficulty coming up with individual origin stories for every hero. It is more that I am just tired of seeing it. They seem to use it in every X-men story (comics, movies, TV). Let Magneto deal with actual anti-semitism rather than mutant hatred for once. Or tell a story that doesn't involve that metaphor.

Ignoring that they're hated and feared takes away the very reason why so many minorities and outsiders relate to them. It's important and intrinsic to who they are, and it's always made them more interesting to me.

[Danny Franks]

I think it's very difficult to completely ignore the prejudice/racism analogue when it comes to the X-Men. It's an integral part of their backstory, and of their existence in the Marvel universe.

The main issue I've had with it over the years is the inconsistency of logic - People hate mutants because they're different and have powers, but love the Fantastic Four because... they're different and have powers. But it's not because of their genes, I guess.

The Avengers are the 'World's Greatest Heroes' but the X-Men are reviled. And the two teams have always been buddies. It has always irritated me that Captain America or Iron Man never went to bat for their mutant allies, and said "these guys do so much good. Let me tell you about some of the things they've done to keep us safe."

I do think the prejudice angle probably needs to be downplayed in the MCU, because people are more likely to ask why the Avengers aren't taking advantage of their position to help. But in the MCU, it seems like most of the superpowered individuals have backstories that explain their powers - Supersoldier formula, built a supersuit, is an alien god etc - Just having powers because... you have powers is going to be new and confusing.

Having said that, if Marvel leaned really fucking hard into the prejudice and bigotry, drawing clear and overt parallels and pissing off all the alt-right types who have been trying to make ownerships claims of popular culture and reject inclusivity? I'd love it.

[Perfect Xero]

I personally prefer the Mutants/X-Men to be part of their own universe, that said I can see an argument that Mutants are just terrifying, mostly because any random 13 year old could just suddenly gain the ability to control minds or make heads explode with no warning.

Other supers are probably rarer and, for the most part, gain powers because of some extraordinary event. Most of them are already adults. Most people are never going to meet one.

Random tweens and teens around the world just suddenly having their X-Gene flip on between leaving comments on Youtube and yelling at people over headsets while playing fortnite is something else.

[benteen]

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I can kind of get why people have issues with mutants more than other people with powers (even though in the comics they turned on pretty much every hero at the drop of a hat and were quick to call anyone "freaks" the assholes), but I also hope they do a different plot with the X-Men. Yeah them being a stand in for a persecuted minority is their bread and butter, but we get it so much in X-Men media, and now we have so many shows and movies and such that have done the same thing, just with aliens or witches or zombies or whatever, even within this very franchise, I would like for them to mix it up. Have them fight some other bad guys, maybe go to space, just something different! Something other than "humans are dicks and hate mutants for stupid reasons and want to round them up and experiment on them" for the 1009th time.

The prejudice angle is always important to the X-Men but I agree, it's time to have expand the type of stories that they tell.  I don't want another seven movies focusing on Xavier vs Magneto.  The two most famous X-Men stories ever written either don't feature Magento at all (Dark Phoenix Saga) or he's barely present (Days of Future Past).  X-Men in space is something I've wanted to see for a long time.  Something like Inferno would be awesome to see onscreen.  The X-Men have fought Dracula (I don't see that happening) and other creatures and have mixed it up with non-mutant villains. 

[JessePinkman]

In news that'll never happen

Henry Cavill In Talks With Marvel To Play Wolverine And We Don’t Know How To Take This

I mean he's hairy enough but by the time they're ready to make more X-Men movies everyone will have moved on. They're not gonna keep Cavill on retainer for 5 years.

[Wynterwolf]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

The prejudice angle is always important to the X-Men but I agree, it's time to have expand the type of stories that they tell. 

And you don't have to abandon the underlying bigotry and the effects of systemic prejudice to tell different stories, in fact it would silly to do so.  It's part of the landscape, it can cause problems with how to solve whatever problem The A Plot is trying to solve, and sometimes it can be even more effectively examined as the B plot.  It's the same with queer stories, they don't always have to be about being queer, queerness is part of the landscape and should be shown as such.  

[clack]

Many of the mutants are the racist assholes -- they believe themselves to be the superior race. Fans tend to skip that part of the world-building when they are perceiving one-to-one analogs with real life oppressed groups.

Just let the X-men be superheroes -- envied, admired, hated, feared -- without making them into metaphors for Jews, blacks, homosexuals, Muslims, trans people, or whatever.

[Lugal]

13 hours ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

Ignoring that they're hated and feared takes away the very reason why so many minorities and outsiders relate to them. It's important and intrinsic to who they are, and it's always made them more interesting to me.

I agree, the X-men were always my favorite comic and growing up in a small town with its share of bigots made the prejudice seem realistic to me.  There was also the Brotherhood and the Morlocks so mutants kind of played on all sides, which is why people wouldn't necessarily trust them, as opposed to the Avengers or the Fantastic Four.  And the X-men came out right when the civil rights struggles were ramping up.  While the times have moved on, that context remains in the X-men's DNA so to speak.

But I do think in future movies they will have to play it with more nuance.  I want to see them explore how prejudice and scapegoating of vulnerable populations is used by the powerful.

[stealinghome]

Quote

Having said that, if Marvel leaned really fucking hard into the prejudice and bigotry, drawing clear and overt parallels and pissing off all the alt-right types who have been trying to make ownerships claims of popular culture and reject inclusivity? I'd love it.

I would give a big WORD to this. I would argue against removing the bigotry/prejudice narrative that has defined the X-men, because, well...it defines them. That's the whole damn point of the X-men. Remove it and they are just another random-ass bunch of superheroes. However, I would love to see the MCU version of the X-men take on more contemporary forms of bigotry and prejudice. While there are certainly still the torches-and-pitchforks variety of bigoted assholes in real life, much bigotry and prejudice these days is more subtle and coded (and perhaps more dangerous for being implicit instead of explicit). Let's see the MCU Marvel movies take on that kind of bigotry. The torch-and-pitchfork antagonist is too easy, too much a caricature, too dated. I would love to see a more truthful and thought-provoking X-men movie take on contemporary political realities. (Because, let's be real, if you have a group that has throughout its history been an analogue for oppressed minority populations, and you decide to play that down because you don't want to get "too political"? That IS making a political decision.)

That said, I agree I am sick of the Fox movies' tunnel vision on Xavier, Magneto, and Wolverine. Have the X-men do some of their other uber-famous storylines (or do them well...cough Dark Phoenix) and just show the bigotry/civil rights struggle as part and parcel of their daily existence.

Quote

As for why FOH hate Mutants but, not people given powers by science or accidents or whatever.  Maybe that's the whole point, hatred/bias/racism/phobias are blind and stupid and ignorant.

Word. I can TOTALLY believe that the general population would love non-mutant superheroes but hate mutants. That's like the Marvel equivalent of "but some of my best friends are black!"

Edited May 15, 2019 by stealinghome

[Morrigan2575]

10 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The main issue I've had with it over the years is the inconsistency of logic - People hate mutants because they're different and have powers, but love the Fantastic Four because... they're different and have powers. But it's not because of their genes, I guess.

I always thought it came down to evolution.  Mutants are supposed to be the next step/future of humanity.  I know i keep coming back to Charlotte but, the whole "You Will Not Replace Us" is like the very basis of FOH/Anti-Mutant hatred in the comics.  The fear of being replaced in power/position by another group.  

[Danny Franks]

Highlights from Kevin Feige's AMA on Reddit:

Quote

Here is a list of all the interesting/insightful reveals from the Feige AMA (as opposed to the ones where he is just being cute or talking about himself - these are purely about the MCU and it's future

• We will hear details on Phase 4 “SOON ENOUGH”
• The Disney+ shows will weave “TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY” into the film universe
• Nothing was mentioned about existing Marvel TV series in the entire AMA (which leads credence to the theory that they are essentially non-canon, and Kevin will get proper creative control over all the new Disney+ shows)
• THERE ARE PLANS to reintroduce The Ten Rings and the ‘real Mandarin’ from Iron Man 1 and One-Shot “All Hail the King” into the future MCU
• Some Marvel characters that he’s loved for many years that are heading to the MCU “SOON”
• There is potentially more cool Hulk stuff coming in Phase 4 (similar to the cool Hulk stuff from Ragnarok, IW and EG)
• The MCU is planned specifically 5 years in advance, with a general plan extending “much, much further”
• They are looking into new and “fun” ways to explore the world of the MCU similar to the Marvel One-Shots
• He loves bringing back characters that people think they’ve seen the last of
• It is all but confirmed that Hulk (“Smart Hulk”) ensured the safety of unsnapped people when he brought them back (aka people in planes when they were snapped etc)
• Cap was always worthy of Mjolnir and was simply being polite in AoU
• Stan Lee read the story of Endgame but not any cut of the film before his passing
• They began discussion on adapting the Infinity Gauntlet saga in 2012, decided to do it as 2 films in around 2014, and started story specifics during the production of Civil War (2015ish)

My thoughts on a couple of these:

I'm starting to think Kevin Feige is some kind of visionary genius. To be working that far ahead, and to have everything they do work so well, takes incredible forethought, planning and timing. Maybe he's the real world's, entertainment version of futurist Tony Stark.

It's a real shame if the Netflix shows are non-canon, because even when the writing was shaky, their versions of Matt Murdock, Jessica Jones and, particularly, Frank Castle, are as good as we're going to get. Luke Cage and Danny Rand? Eh, reboot them if you like.

An anthology series of less well known characters, on Disney Plus, could be fantastic. And there would always be the option to give full miniseries to characters that really grab viewer attention. I would totally watch hour long one-shots about American Eagle, Black Knight or Songbird.

[Dee]

Marvel One Shots needed to be a thing YEARS ago.

[Jeebus Cripes]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

It's a real shame if the Netflix shows are non-canon, because even when the writing was shaky, their versions of Matt Murdock, Jessica Jones and, particularly, Frank Castle, are as good as we're going to get. Luke Cage and Danny Rand? Eh, reboot them if you like.

I wish dumb ass Agents of SHIELD wasn't canon. 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

I wish dumb ass Agents of SHIELD wasn't canon. 

Well it's not anymore. If you watch the season premiere it is as if the Thanos snap never happened.

[blueray]

Agents of Shield is a good show. It may have had a bit of shaky first season but got way better as the show went on. At this point they finally decided to ignore the movies as they movies weren't paying any attention to them.

As for what is cannon, actually both AoS and the Netflix shows are within the MCU. The tv shows did all acknowledge the movies (well up into IW).

Edited May 16, 2019 by blueray

[Jeebus Cripes]

14 minutes ago, blueray said:

Agents of Shield is a good show. It may have had a bit of shaky first season but got way better as the show went on. At this point they finally decided to ignore the movies as they movies weren't paying any attention to them.

I hung in there as long as I could, but I realized a couple of seasons ago that I literally cared for no one on there. They could have killed any character at any point, and I could care less. There is something inherently boring about them all. I kind of liked Coulson in the films, and they somehow managed to make me detest him.

The Kree story in space was mildly interesting, but only because the actor playing the villain was captivating to me. 

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

I hung in there as long as I could, but I realized a couple of seasons ago that I literally cared for no one on there. They could have killed any character at any point, and I could care less. There is something inherently boring about them all. I kind of liked Coulson in the films, and they somehow managed to make me detest him.

The Kree story in space was mildly interesting, but only because the actor playing the villain was captivating to me. 

Coulson only worked, in my opinion, as the boring, grey bureaucrat who contrasted the larger than life heroes, in the MCU movies. In his own show, he was still boring but it wasn't in contrast to anything. And from what I saw, he added layers of smug too. 

[VCRTracking]

I love Agents of SHIELD.

[clack]

Now that there are plans to split the MCU into 2 main groupings -- the Earth-bound and the cosmic -- I wonder where Captain Marvel will end up.

She's too powerful to go up against Earth villains and be an Avenger. What is the point of the Falcon -- an otherwise ordinary guy with mechanical wings -- when he's fighting alongside someone who could move planets?

So, Captain Marvel part of the cosmic side of things, alongside the Guardians, Thor, the Eternals, and maybe Adam Warlock and Nova?

And who then will be the core members of the New Avengers? They should have compatible power sets and character chemistry. Spiderman, Black Panther, Ant-Man and the Wasp for sure. Would Prof Hulk continue as a full-fledged team member? Doctor Strange? Shang-Chi? Valkyrie?

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, clack said:

Now that there are plans to split the MCU into 2 main groupings -- the Earth-bound and the cosmic -- I wonder where Captain Marvel will end up.

She's too powerful to go up against Earth villains and be an Avenger. What is the point of the Falcon -- an otherwise ordinary guy with mechanical wings -- when he's fighting alongside someone who could move planets?

So, Captain Marvel part of the cosmic side of things, alongside the Guardians, Thor, the Eternals, and maybe Adam Warlock and Nova?

And who then will be the core members of the New Avengers? They should have compatible power sets and character chemistry. Spiderman, Black Panther, Ant-Man and the Wasp for sure. Would Prof Hulk continue as a full-fledged team member? Doctor Strange? Shang-Chi? Valkyrie?

If they're planning on doing a big, cosmic-centric event, then I'd expect them to go with the Annihilation storyline, and I could see Carol fitting into the central role that Nova played.

I could also see them rolling Phyla-Vell into MCU Carol, which could play in to them hinting at making a superhero openly gay.

There's also Galactus and the Silver Surfer, if Marvel have the rights to them. Not even Carol could go up against Galactus and have much of a chance.

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, clack said:

Now that there are plans to split the MCU into 2 main groupings -- the Earth-bound and the cosmic -- I wonder where Captain Marvel will end up.

She's too powerful to go up against Earth villains and be an Avenger. What is the point of the Falcon -- an otherwise ordinary guy with mechanical wings -- when he's fighting alongside someone who could move planets?

I am curious to see what kind of earth level threats will cause any new avengers to assemble. I would go as far as saying what is the point of Falcon (or even War Machine) when you have T'challa and the Dora Milaje and the Wakandan military (at least the military from Black Panther not Infinity War). Looking back I imagine that the Wakandans could have made pretty short work out of Ultron and probably could have put up at minimum a respectable fight against the Chituari, just on their own.

[Morrigan2575]

Do you think they might adapt Infinity Crusade? That was my first All Marvel/Big Crossover event. 

[anna0852]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious to see what kind of earth level threats will cause any new avengers to assemble. I would go as far as saying what is the point of Falcon (or even War Machine) when you have T'challa and the Dora Milaje and the Wakandan military (at least the military from Black Panther not Infinity War). Looking back I imagine that the Wakandans could have made pretty short work out of Ultron and probably could have put up at minimum a respectable fight against the Chituari, just on their own.

 I've been thinking about it And has the Wakandan military actually ever seen real combat? At the beginning of Black Panther the news report is specifically referencing what a reclusive country they are. That fight against the Black Order in Infinity War might have been the first time they actually had to fight a battle and not just train.

[Dee]

How does the MCU do a character like Galactus without it feeling like a rerun of Thanos?

[Fukui San]

If they can do better than Galactus being a pile of space bees than it'll be an improvement from previous versions.

Seriously, it's not that hard. He's huge, he eats planets, he barely notices you're there. Even the likes of Thor. He has a conscripted minion who alone can hold off a dozen superheroes. Thanos wants to kill half the universe. With Galactus it's nothing personal.

Have we had the Watcher in the MCU yet? The Watcher may be a good way to explain Galactus.

[starri]

1 minute ago, Fukui San said:

 Have we had the Watcher in the MCU yet? The Watcher may be a good way to explain Galactus.

Uatu specifically was at Fox, but we saw generic ones in the one of the many post-credit scenes in GotG v2.

[Perfect Xero]

Since Time Travel has been introduced I'd think that Kang would be a possibility for the next big bad. Though considering what a headache time travel stories are they might not want to go back to that well for a long time.

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, starri said:

Uatu specifically was at Fox, but we saw generic ones in the one of the many post-credit scenes in GotG v2.

They were also in the movie, one of the hops Rocket/Yondu/Groot take when trying to get to Ego's planet.

[Danny Franks]

13 hours ago, anna0852 said:

 I've been thinking about it And has the Wakandan military actually ever seen real combat? At the beginning of Black Panther the news report is specifically referencing what a reclusive country they are. That fight against the Black Order in Infinity War might have been the first time they actually had to fight a battle and not just train.

Probably not. The fact that they seem to still use spears and swords as weapons indicates they've pretty much just been ceremonial. Occasionally, we've seen a few gestures towards them being a hi-tech military power, but the movies have all fallen back on a kind of Zulu aesthetic to their soldiers.

It does seem like Tony, Steve and Natasha are leaving something of a power vacuum. Especially with Vision gone as well, given his power levels. Black Panther seems the natural leader of those who are left, but it could be a real conflict of interests if he's ruling a country and also leading the Avengers.

[Raja]

I came to the conclusion that Wakanda does not have any combat experience from Infinity War. Every move seems like it was developed for ritual trial by individual  combat 

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Probably not. The fact that they seem to still use spears and swords as weapons indicates they've pretty much just been ceremonial. Occasionally, we've seen a few gestures towards them being a hi-tech military power, but the movies have all fallen back on a kind of Zulu aesthetic to their soldiers.

Wakanda's spears are not ceremonial. They are made out of vibranium. They are collapsible, and can deflect bullets, pierce metal, and emit some type of energy charge. 

[Raja]

7 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Wakanda's spears are not ceremonial. They are made out of vibranium. They are collapsible, and can deflect bullets, pierce metal, and emit some type of energy charge. 

But still reminds of of Stargate and Andromeda. To avoid a gun shape you produce a weapon that is hard to aim and set up for melee. not stand off range fighting . In Andromeda's case the Force Lance had to be armed with a smart bullet which self homed in on its target.

[Lugal]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

But still reminds of of Stargate and Andromeda. To avoid a gun shape you produce a weapon that is hard to aim and set up for melee. not stand off range fighting . In Andromeda's case the Force Lance had to be armed with a smart bullet which self homed in on its target.

The spears are a sonic cannon, capable of destroying war engines or tanks, rather than specific fighters, so accuracy would not be as important.

[Raja]

16 minutes ago, Lugal said:

The spears are a sonic cannon, capable of destroying war engines or tanks, rather than specific fighters, so accuracy would not be as important.

So infantry that can't hunt scouts and hidden infantry men? Like we have been suggesting, not an actual combat tested army.