All Episodes Discussion

[SunnyBeBe]

I just saw the guy dubbed The Dexter Killer should air tomorrow night.  

[TVbitch]

I read the "SK Confessions" online when this case was first featured, and it is truly sickening. Moreso because they are not crazy ramblings but this guy is perfectly lucid and coherent. 

The first victim did not look good in the update. He is still in fear, and I'm sure he feels a lot of guilt about not reporting it and then the second guy being killed. 

OMG, that they let this psychopath sign up for a prison dating website!!! Apparently they did remove his profile, but how did that even happen. And he actually is coming up for parole, which is likely to be denied, but still?! Madness. 

[12catcrazy]

It's a shame that the first guy (talk about lucky!) didn't go to the police after he escaped - maybe the 2nd guy would still be alive.  

Frankly, I never watched "Dexter" and never will.  I don't understand making killers into heroes; especially killers who seem to take such glee in killing their victims.   It just glamourizes such sickness.  And it's hard to believe that this weirdo murderer is actually going to be up for parole next year.  If you ask me, he should've gotten the chair but I don't think that Canada has capital punishment.  

[Kiss my mutt]

I can’t believe they provided the remaining Dexter episodes for him to watch in prison! Much too lenient a sentence. 
Yes, too bad the first guy didn’t come forward before. That could have very well cost the other guy’s life.  

[12catcrazy]

19 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I can’t believe they provided the remaining Dexter episodes for him to watch in prison! Much too lenient a sentence. 
Yes, too bad the first guy didn’t come forward before. That could have very well cost the other guy’s life.  

Kind of makes you wonder about prison.   And I looked at my prior post re "Dexter" and realized what a hypocrite I am as I watched all 4 seasons of "Killing Eve".  Talk about a show that glamourized a psychopathic killer!  Somebody punish me by making me watch some reality tv like The Kardashians.   Something where it's only people's reputations get sliced and diced rather than their bodies...

[TVbitch]

If they did not allow prisoners to watch tv shows that glamorized violence, they would be reduced to cooking shows and some reality shows. Heck, even shows for kids glamorize violence!

@12catcrazy I think you were punished enough by the finale of Killing Eve. : D

[12catcrazy]

So did anybody watched this weekend's Part 1 about the female disbarred Texas lawyer Catherine Shelton?  Talk about a WTF story.  Bodies drop like flies around this broad yet nothing seems to happen to her.  And that's in a state where people seem to get sentenced to death in cases where there is less evidence than what they can pin on this woman.  

One ex-boyfriend- a doctor whom she apparently only dated for a few months and then sued him for half his assets claiming they were common-law married - was murdered in his garage.   A man who could have possibly been implicated in that murder wound up being murdered himself, and there is more coming.   One ex-boyfriend joined the Marines to escape her (probably prevented him from being killed) and they interviewed yet another ex-boyfriend who she actually shot in the back and yet she got let off the hook in that case ("self-defense" - yeah the guy GOT SHOT IN THE BACK as he was trying to leave).  

I'm waiting for Part 2 to air this coming Saturday.  

[hookedontv]

52 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

So did anybody watched this weekend's Part 1 about the female disbarred Texas lawyer Catherine Shelton?  Talk about a WTF story.

I WATCHED! It truly was a WTF story -- my mouth was hanging open the entire time. Catherine Shelton was so arrogant and smug, it was hard to watch. I agree with everything you said and I don't understand why she isn't behind bars. 

I know this is "48 Hrs" but I found myself wishing Keith Morrison was interviewing her, with the same disbelief and eye rolls he had while interviewing the prosecutor from the Pam Hupp case(s). I am looking forward to Part 2 as well. 

[LGGirl]

On 5/2/2022 at 10:22 AM, 12catcrazy said:

So did anybody watched this weekend's Part 1 about the female disbarred Texas lawyer Catherine Shelton? 

I did. My take away was that a good looking woman who knows her way around the law can get away with murder. 

[TVbitch]

I FF'd this 2-parter. Not really keen when they make an episode around a podcast, cuz the podcast people usually make it about THEM, which this woman kind of did. Also, what was the point of all of it? Shelton's apparently never going to be held accountable for any of her crimes except this last little thing about signing the dead guy's name on a lease.

I like my murderer arrested at the end! 

[Kiss my mutt]

My take away is that her being a beautiful women should be in dispute. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Kiss my mutt

[12catcrazy]

Well I felt totally ripped off with Part 2.  It was mostly a rehash of Part 1 with a more recent interview thrown in as the bonus.   Mrs. Shelton is what my mother would call "a broken down tomato".  

Hard to believe that she has gotten away with so much but she is smart enough to let somebody else's hands actually get dirty (with the exception of shooting the guy in the back).   Her husband is serving a life sentence - amazing how it was HIS DNA found on the discarded items near the one murder scene.   Probably was a win/win for her - her enemy's husband was dead and her husband was behind bars, which was probably fine by her.  And in a state where people get put on death row for a lot less than what she has done, she gets off scott free and can laugh like hell at both the reporters and their audience.  

[rlc]

Last night’s episode actually made me cry. Poor Vincent Simmons- that was a travesty.

[Steph J]

1 hour ago, rlc said:

Last night’s episode actually made me cry. Poor Vincent Simmons- that was a travesty.

It's awful that her cousin raped her, but what the three of them did - and continue to do by acting like they are the wounded parties - is just evil. They took away his life.

And I'm sure he'll never see a dime of compensation. It seems like people never do in situations like this.

[howiveaddict]

Before knowing the outcome of this show, I knew it was the cousin who raped her.  The twins are still dispicable after all these years.  I felt the racism oozing from them.

[ByaNose]

After, hearing said cousin on the phone call I tend to agree he may have been the perpetrator. The twins wanted to cover it up which is sort of odd because no one else would have known about it. Maybe, being so young they thought one of them could get pregnant and needed a story. Also, there wasn’t even any DNA (which was understandable then but now they have helped lots of people in modern times) or direct evidence linking Simmons to any of this. It is interesting that the there wasn’t any police coverup with the records and it seems like the testimony were taken and written as explained to them that night. The twins aren’t changing their story and they will take it to their grave. I think this took place in 1977 and I was only 13 but it really was a lifetime ago. 

[Court]

It was very obvious that the cousin did it from the beginning. It's horrifying that they continue to perpetuate this lie. Why the need to cover up that it was his cousin? I'm sorry they were raped but that doesn't excuse them being racist assholes. Their stories were so inconsistent and full of lies. At the time of their statements to the police, the twins did not describe or identify their attacker, saying that "all blacks looks alike." What the actual fuck? 

After researching the case more, I'm not even convinced they were raped but I hate saying that. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Court

[Kiss my mutt]

12 hours ago, Court said:

It was very obvious that the cousin did it from the beginning. It's horrifying that they continue to perpetuate this lie. Why the need to cover up that it was his cousin? I'm sorry they were raped but that doesn't excuse them being racist assholes. Their stories were so inconsistent and full of lies. At the time of their statements to the police, the twins did not describe or identify their attacker, saying that "all blacks looks alike." What the actual fuck? 

After researching the case more, I'm not even convinced they were raped but I hate saying that. 

I was thinking the same thing but they’ve invested their lives telling themselves this. I don’t understand why their cousin just got in the trunk willingly and didn’t try to intervene. You’d think the three of them could have put up some kind of a fight. 

[Annber03]

13 hours ago, Court said:

At the time of their statements to the police, the twins did not describe or identify their attacker, saying that "all blacks looks alike." What the actual fuck?

Yeah, that's the part that I keep tripping over, too. They're all, "I can still see his face when I go to sleep at night..." and they were so certain he was the guy in the lineup...but if all black people look alike to them, then how are they so sure of what he looks like? How are they so sure he's the one who did it? That whole thing with them all writing down the same number when identifying Simmons in the lineup felt less like pure coincidence and more like power of suggestion/a tacit agreement to all pick the same guy. 

Keith freely spewing the "n"-word in his response to this case certainly adds to the theory that he and the girls concocted the story, too. Between those statements and the revelation that the penitentiary where Simmons was held was built atop a plantation, as well as Simmons' encounter with the police when they brought him in, and the clip from that documentary with all those old white guys talking about how they were so certain of Simmons' guilt, my god, this whole story was just basically a depressing checklist of all the racist shit black people in general have had to deal with and go through, all being piled onto one guy.

I liked Simmons' defense attorney. And I'm glad Simmons managed to get a hold of the prosecution's evidence as well, to get the ball rolling (slow though that ball was to move). The whole investigation was appalling in how badly it was done and handled, and the fact Simmons wound up on trial so fast....insane. The whole thing is just insane. That judge doesn't want to blame the police for how they dealt with the evidence, fuck it, I will, then. They barely seemed to bother to do any investigating at all. Everyone working this case back then failed miserably. 

13 hours ago, Court said:

After researching the case more, I'm not even convinced they were raped but I hate saying that. 

I could buy something happened with them - again, given Keith's attitude in that call, where he's freely dropping a racial slur, it's not a stretch for me to buy that he would've targeted his cousins. Especially given the implication that he'd done similar things to other female relatives over the years as well.

And on that note, it really rubbed me the wrong way how they kept implying that whatever Keith had done with his cousins was consensual. It was incest, he was older than them and would've been taking advantage of them. Doesn't sound very consensual to me. 

Also was struck by how they kept using the whole "Well, her hymen was intact, so clearly she was still a virgin" mindset, too. Isn't that considered a pretty outdated way to determine a girl's virginity nowadays? Or shouldn't it be, at least? 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Annber03

[TVbitch]

Black Swan - Um, that couple was nuts. Feel sorry for the baby, and those dancers who got shafted. Don't know what to make of the older daughter who is trying to milk TikTok celebrity out of the whole situation.  

[jsm1125]

What was the deal with Ashley’s mother? We heard very little about her, but I’m curious what was running through her head. 

[nittany cougar]

Did anyone watch the episode tonight about the Orange County girl who was abducted and found murdered in 1972? 

A police department public relations person created a Twitter account about the crime with first person tweets about the murder victim's thoughts.  The theory behind it was that the made up Twitter thoughts of the victim would help solve the crime. I found the episode highly offensive from the crackpot police PR lady on down to the idiots who followed the account on Twitter because they thought they were going to solve the crime by reading the PR lady's Tweets.

Half of the people in the episode weren't even alive when the crime was committed, so they had nothing to contribute.  I can't believe that 48 Hours degraded themselves by essentially doing real crime fan fiction. They must be desperate for content.

Edited August 28, 2022 by nittany cougar

[Annber03]

Yeah, I thought that whole thing was weird, too. The idea of bringing attention to cold cases via social media isn't bad in and of itself - it's risky, sure, but it's also worth a try - but that was a weirdly creepy way to go about it.

[TVbitch]

This was a re-run, but I also found it super creepy and highly offensive to presume what a murdered child was doing or thinking. 

Those tweets did not lead to the suspect, and the final tweet of the "victim" thanking everyone after they got the guy (via genetic genealogy) was beyond the pale.   

[TVbitch]

New season started Saturday with 2 episodes.

Didn't watch the Gabby Petito episode. 

Dressage coach episode:  Um, based on my totally scientific evaluation of the evidence which was expertly comprised of my just looking at her --I do agree that bitch drove him mad! Still, dude should have ended his coaching relationship with her, got her off his property, and sued her for defamation ~not shot her! 

[patty1h]

I'm thinking that the "I don't remember anything" defense is pretty weak and probably won't get Michael Barisone any sympathy.  Lauren Kanarek did seem to be a nightmare, going by her online rantings, and calling CPS on his GF, but she didn't deserve two bullets in her chest.

I may have missed it, but did anyone ask Lauren why she didn't move off Michael's property if she was so disgusted by him?  Some may see that her staying under the roof of someone she despised doesn't show that she has great decision making and shows she may have stayed there to be a nuisance, but being a jackass is not against the law and would not really help bolster Michael's case.

[CrazyInAlabama]

3 hours ago, TVbitch said:

New season started Saturday with 2 episodes.

Didn't watch the Gabby Petito episode. 

Dressage coach episode:  Um, based on my totally scientific evaluation of the evidence which was expertly comprised of my just looking at her --I do agree that bitch drove him mad! Still, dude should have ended his coaching relationship with her, got her off his property, and sued her for defamation ~not shot her! 

He was trying to evict her, she refused to go, and her father was negotiating for her to leave.  The police refused to do anything about her squatting on the property.    The police didn't test for fingerprints on the gun, or have any testimony but Karanek and her employee/boyfriend.     She said she wanted to destroy him, and take his farm over.    

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, patty1h said:

I'm thinking that the "I don't remember anything" defense is pretty weak and probably won't get Michael Barisone any sympathy. 

Agreed. It seemed clear to me that he's claiming that defense because that's what his lawyers told him to use as an argument. Based off the description of the events that led up to the shooting, with him taking the gun out of the safe and driving down that road to the house and everything, I just don't buy that he blacked out and has no memory of that incident whatsoever.

I fully agree she seemed like...A LOT, to say the least, and I have no problem believing she drove him nuts, or tried to. But I don't think he's entirely Mr. Innocent in this scenario, either, especially since, again, he's the one who wound up shooting her and nearly killing her. I had to laugh at his insistence that he runs away from confrontation - well, you had the opportunity to do that that day, but nope, instead, you took a gun and went and shot this woman. He should consider himself lucky he's not on trial for murder. 

Personally, I got the feeling his interest in her wasn't purely professional (let's just say that I highly doubt he invites ALL his students to come live with him, you know what I mean? Granted, her boyfriend was living there, too, but still...), and I think she definitely sensed or knew that and tried to take advantage of and manipulate that for her own personal gain. They both sounded like they had some issues, so it was no surprise that they clashed in the most spectacularly horrific way once they met and got to know each other. 

But yeah, bottom line is he shot her, and he's going to have to live with that fact the rest of his life. I did laugh at his defense attorney celebrating the verdict as he did, 'cause it was just so funny the way he did it. "Hey, everyone, my client was found not guilty because they're insane! Yay, what a good day!" 

[Whimsy]

I don’t think that anyone deserves to be murdered or attempted murdered. So, in that respect I am on Lauren’s “side”. It shouldn’t have come to that. I think that there were many more resources Michael could have utilized to get her off his property, but unfortunately he wouldn’t have been able to have stopped the social media onslaught.

I don’t think Michael was truly, clinically insane but Lauren was doing absolutely everything in her power to destroy him. She even admitted it. She seemed like a typical rich snob who thought she was better than ANYone and EVERYone else and she got angry when she wasn’t catered to. Maybe there was also some romantic feelings involved, but I’m not 100% sure. I think Michael originally saw her as a golden goose but she just demanded more and more. I do think she pushed him to a point where he “snapped” as the ID show says. But, I don’t think he truly blacked out and I don’t think he was clinically insane. He should have tried harder to get help and remove even himself from the situation before it got to the point it did. No matter what he did though, she ruined his professional reputation and he most likely wouldn’t have recovered even if he didn’t shoot her. 

[amarante]

I think the the dressage people both got exactly what they deserved and I believe it was an example of jury nullification. I wouldn't have convicted him under the circumstances either.

A pox on both their houses. 

While I don't believe in frontier justice she didn't die. He had his life turned upside down with the trial and the expense of lawyers - not to mention what she put him through prior to the shooting.

It seems as though he is still in the psychiatric facility being evaluated - at least that is what I got from the last moments so he is "serving time". I assume his business is in shambles and who knows if he can build it back again if he gets out. 

[TVbitch]

Poor Arlene, that is a lot of loss. Glad she took Peanut in and adopted a new dog later on. I don't really understand why this murder ever became a cold case when the evidence the cops already had available to them at the time would have been enough to convict this guy.

And I personally do not feel juveniles' records should always be sealed. People can be very much who they will be by an early age, and him viciously murdering his parents for deciding to move is certainly relevant information in regard to his murder trial as well as to anyone who might invite this guy into their lives. 

[Annber03]

I felt so, so bad for Arlene. Her bit about how Peanut would always run into the room, all excited, anytime he heard Lori's name being mentioned, brought tears to my eyes :(. The idea that Rick would've stopped in to take care of Peanut for the next few days struck me odd and as something of a surprise, because generally, people who commit crimes like the kind he did aren't exactly known for treating animals well. 

It was just so creepy how Rick and Lori's paths ultimately crossed as they did. 

[TVbitch]

27 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

The idea that Rick would've stopped in to take care of Peanut for the next few days struck me odd and as something of a surprise, because generally, people who commit crimes like the kind he did aren't exactly known for treating animals well. 

The police believed he stayed in the house for several days after killing Lori and that is why the dog had taken care of. 

[UsernameFatigue]

On 9/25/2022 at 8:19 AM, TVbitch said:

Poor Arlene, that is a lot of loss. Glad she took Peanut in and adopted a new dog later on. I don't really understand why this murder ever became a cold case when the evidence the cops already had available to them at the time would have been enough to convict this guy.

And I personally do not feel juveniles' records should always be sealed. People can be very much who they will be by an early age, and him viciously murdering his parents for deciding to move is certainly relevant information in regard to his murder trial as well as to anyone who might invite this guy into their lives. 

That was so infuriating, that the evidence to convict Rick was in an envelope that no one had bothered to open. So often it seems these cold cases are solved by evidence that was already there, just not followed up on due to sloppy police work. 

Though I had no doubt that Rick killed Lori, he said something that made it obvious to me. When he killed his mother and step dad, after several years he was able at the age of 21 to start his life over with a clean slate. He said after he was convicted of Lori's murder that he was shocked, that he thought he was going to go free and be able to start his life over. Not continue with his life, but start it over. Just like he had after he murdered before.

I wonder why they didn't make his plea deal to be able to escape the death penalty contingent on telling the authorities and Lori's family what he did with her body? Thank goodness that Arlene has been able to move on, but what a horrible amount of loss. Losing family members to murder, cancer and Covid? Horrific. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by UsernameFatigue

[txhorns79]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:34 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

I wonder why they didn't make his plea deal to be able to escape the death penalty contingent on telling the authorities and Lori's family what he did with her body?

My impression was it was not a plea deal.  I think the prosecutor sought life in prison without parole to avoid all the appeals, etc. that go along with a death penalty sentence.   

[Angeltoes]

I saw where one of the stepsisters posted on Facebook.  She said they did offer to cut him some slack if he told where Lori was but he said nope.

I bet that guy almost peed himself when the kid casually said,"Oh, I killed them."

[Annber03]

So...I get that people get intimidated talking to police and all that, but what a flimsy reason Megan gave the police for why she didn't tell them about her attempt to get that money from the bank, "I knew how it would look to you guys." But apparently you didn't consider or care about how lying to them about all of that would look? Okay. 

I love how she didn't even bother trying to disguise her voice when making that call to the bank, too. I'm glad that the bank was able to alert Pam to what was going on and that Megan's attempt to take the money didn't go through. Unfortunately, both those events helped lead to Pam and Helen's deaths :/. 

I remember there was a case I saw on "Forensic Files" years ago in which a husband was convicted of killing his wife, and the defense tried to make a similar claim that she killed herself by using her toe to fire the gun. That explanation seemed like bullshit to me then and it definitely felt like bullshit to me now. I mean, yeah, sure, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that someone could do that, no, but the fact remains that most people aren't going to go that route when shooting themselves because it's ridiculously awkward. 

There was also all that talk about why Helen didn't call 911...I mean, they never said how long the time gap between Pam's death and Helen's death was, did they? It seemed like both deaths happened pretty closely together, which, if that were the case, would mean she wouldn't have had time to do any of that even if she wanted to. There's also the time zone issue to consider - Helen's boyfriend was in Dallas, and these deaths happened in West Virginia. So when trying to figure out the timeline of events, one might want to take that into account when trying to work in both Helen's communication with him and his calls to 911. 

But yeah, even if Helen did have emotional issues in the past or whatever, I think Megan's actions here before and after the deaths pretty well sealed her fate. Especially her attempt to pose as Pam to get money from the bank. Such a weird, sad story - clearly there were a lot of underlying issues going on here for some time, and the money/house stuff was just the final straw.

[Guest]

There was an hour and half gap between murders and that’s why everyone was asking why Helen didn’t call the police.

Isn’t it possible dear sister Meghan (after hearing Helen’s call to Carlos) held her captive for that time before murdering her and poorly staging the suicide?   

[Steph J]

9 hours ago, PsychoKlown said:

There was an hour and half gap between murders and that’s why everyone was asking why Helen didn’t call the police.

Isn’t it possible dear sister Meghan (after hearing Helen’s call to Carlos) held her captive for that time before murdering her and poorly staging the suicide?   

That's my assumption - that Meghan locked Helen in the bathroom and took her phone away (they did say that the phone had been wiped of prints - why would that be necessary unless someone other than Helen was handling the phone?) and then came back to kill her after setting the scene of their mother's murder.

17 hours ago, Annber03 said:

There was also all that talk about why Helen didn't call 911...

Maybe she knew how catastrophically unhelpful calling 911 would be. I felt for her boyfriend; he must have felt so helpless and frustrated trying to get someone to do something and getting the runaround at every turn.

[Ohmo]

On 9/25/2022 at 11:19 AM, TVbitch said:

And I personally do not feel juveniles' records should always be sealed. People can be very much who they will be by an early age, and him viciously murdering his parents for deciding to move is certainly relevant information in regard to his murder trial as well as to anyone who might invite this guy into their lives. 

Apparently it wouldn't have helped his librarian girlfriend, however.  She still believes him.

He's in prison (where he needs to be), but I hate that he can withhold what he did with her body.  That's its own sort of evil on top of killing Lori.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Ohmo

[TVbitch]

I was also trying to figure out what happened in the 1.5 hours between Meghan killing her mom and her sister. The boyfriend said Helen told him about the murder, but he also said Helen told him not to call the police. So either Meghan had Helen at gunpoint (but then why allow her to use the phone at all), or, Helen may have been considering going along with Meghan's plan for some time before Meghan decided killing her too was the only way out. If Helen was able to lock herself in the bathroom, she would have called the police herself or told her boyfriend to get them there asap. They did not say if there was forced entry into the bathroom, so I assume not. I really can't come up with a scenario that makes total sense.   

[Ohmo]

14 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I was also trying to figure out what happened in the 1.5 hours between Meghan killing her mom and her sister.

Yeah, I can't make sense of that either.  Helen was sitting on the toilet, which suggests to me that she was waiting.  The scenario of Meghan locking her in the bathroom makes sense to me.  Maybe she thought she could reason with Meghan, but it's odd that there didn't seem to be defensive wounds on Helen's body..

It has crossed my mind that both Meghan and Helen were in on a plan to kill Pam, but then Meghan decided to kill Helen as well.  That would explain why Helen might tell Carlos not to call the police.

[pdlinda]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

It has crossed my mind that both Meghan and Helen were in on a plan to kill Pam, but then Meghan decided to kill Helen as well.  That would explain why Helen might tell Carlos not to call the police.

The old adage comes to mind:  "MONEY doesn't buy happiness."

With all her millions, at least 2 of Pam's daughters were sources of severe aggravation and dysfunction (and, eventually death) to her.

When I realized that Pam didn't actually BUY meghan the house costing over $400K as a gift, my entire opinion regarding their relationship changed. 

Apparently Meghan had other plans for Pam's money than Pam had herself.

[Vivigirl10]

On 10/3/2022 at 11:34 AM, Ohmo said:

It has crossed my mind that both Meghan and Helen were in on a plan to kill Pam, but then Meghan decided to kill Helen as well.  That would explain why Helen might tell Carlos not to call the police.

This was my thought as well.  

I don't know, it seems like there were a lot of holes in this story and a lot of areas that needed to be dug into a little deeper that were just glossed over.  I never really got a feel for the relationships among the family members, which would seem to be a key part of the story.  

[Kiss my mutt]

I kept wondering about Meghan’s husband and if he had any inkling something like this could happen or he was flat out complicit in it. I’m assuming since there were no charges and he divorced her, no, but I wish he’d give an interview, because it’d be an interesting angle. 

[Annber03]

Okay, so I'm watching a rerun on Investigation Discovery about the planned hit and killing of a man named Jamie Faith, and holy shit, is this murder plot a special kind of stupid the whole way around.'

First off, his wife Jennifer goes on TV and does a big ol' song and dance interview about what investigators need to look for in this case, mentioning a man who wore a blue COVID mask and who had a Texas Rangers sticker on their truck.

Then, the investigators look into the GPS of Jennifer's lover, Darrin, once he becomes their prime suspect, and whaddya know, on the day of the murder his GPS shows him going straight to Jamie's house. And what's more, there's surveillance video from a store he'd stopped into at one point, and he's caught on video. And guess what he's wearing? A blue COVID mask. There's also video from the neighborhood where Jamie lives that shows the guy heading into Jamie's yard. 

Oh, and guess what sticker he has on his truck? 

And if all of that weren't enough, as the investigators look further into Jennifer and her lover, they find they texted a CRAPTON of times in the weeks leading up to the murder - the episode said something to the effect of 116,000 during a certain span of time. And of course, a lot of their texts were very flirty and romantic in nature (or at least, their idea of romance - one of the investigators said one text exchange involved them saying good night to each other and talking about chips and salsa, which, yeah, baby, that's sexy...), but then they're also talking about how to delete texts, and she asks him at one point to take the Texas Rangers sticker off his truck. 

And yet, right around the time of the murder, their constant chattiness ends very abruptly for over 24 hours. Interesting coinkydink, no? 

Then there's explicit e-mails online, because OF COURSE THERE ARE, and they're implied to be from Jamie, taunting Darrin about the abusive things he was going to do to Jennifer. But of course, because tech investigators are a thing nowadays, they looked into them and discovered that, oh, hey, they weren't coming from Jamie. Nope, it was Jennifer posing as Jamie. 

Just....good lord, no wonder these murder plots fall apart as they do. If you have to text each other THAT many times about your plans to off your husband, you clearly suck at learning how to plan things. And it just continues to amaze me how so many criminals forget rule #1 of getting away with murder:, which is, "Shut your damn mouth and lay low."

Obviously, though, of course, I'm thankful, for both Jamie's sake and society's sake in general, that Jennifer was too much of a brazen moron to get away with her crimes. She all but held up a neon sign announcing her guilt. 

The thing that most disturbs me about her is how easily she managed to manipulate a man she knew full well had a traumatic brain injury, and was willing to let him take the fall for this elaborate crime she'd plotted out. That's pretty sick. Her first husband's stories about her are just further proof of how messed up she really is. 

Such a wild story the whole way around. 

[12catcrazy]

I personally don't think that Helen was in on the plot to kill their mother.  Remember that something was said about Meghan's 8 year old daughter living in the house and that Meghan told the cops that she and her daughter had left the house to go somewhere before her mother and sister were killed.   Maybe Meghan had told Helen that she would kill both her AND the daughter if Helen called the police.   And as far as the comments during the show as to why didn't Helen barricade herself or try and escape, maybe Helen had no escape route.    There didn't look to be a window in the bathroom and chances are that Meghan had her cornered with the rifle pointed at her.    Meghan shot Helen in the head - to me it looks almost like an execution.    I don't think that Helen stood a chance.   The jurors made the right decision in this case.  I'd just like some more background on that family's history because unless the murder is a total psychopath something like this doesn't happen out of nowhere.  

[pdlinda]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:28 AM, 12catcrazy said:

I'd just like some more background on that family's history because unless the murder is a total psychopath something like this doesn't happen out of nowhere.  

Let me venture a guess and say that for MANY YEARS, Meghan had designs on her mother's $$$$ and used various "schemes" to get as much of it as she could, including using various ploys to either ingratiate herself with her mother, OR antagonize her mother to the point that Pam's emotional strength was always being played with and depleted.  

I think the final blow was Meghan's insistence that Pam give her a cash gift for the new house and Pam refusing to do so.

(I speak from experience as I have personal knowledge of such a manipulative and conniving sibling in my own family.  No criminal behavior; however, years of emotional abuse toward our mother trying to skim as much $$$$ as possible without the rest of us knowing and my mother always capitulating because in her later years she simply did not possess the emotional strength to "argue.")

[Morrigan2575]

On 10/3/2022 at 12:34 PM, Ohmo said:

It has crossed my mind that both Meghan and Helen were in on a plan to kill Pam, but then Meghan decided to kill Helen as well.  That would explain why Helen might tell Carlos not to call the police.

Just watched and, this crossed my mind as well.

[Annber03]

This story about the death of Professor Shockley was creepy and weird as hell. 

"God sent me all these women who were too good for me..." Oh, for the love of all that is good, dude, shut the hell up. Between that, his "The devil lined everything up just right" blather, and his overdramatic falling out of his chair once the investigator told him Clark had killed himself, I'm already side-eyeing him heavily. His son testifying to how weird a guy he was, and the other women talking about his history of choking them*, was pretty damning, too. I have zero problem believing he had something to do with Marianne's death.

All of that being said, however, I'm also not sure the other guy, Clark, should be let off the hook, too. It's awfully convenient that he killed himself shortly after the police arrived, and even if he wasn't actively involved in Marianne's death, I mean, he was at the house when all of this went down, and he didn't seem to bother to do anything to stop this. 

Both men had bonded over that shaman movie, they said, the night of Marianne's death, so they were evidently connecting on some level. I personally wonder if they weren't trying to both do something sexual or weird or whatever with her, and she refused, and then things went sideways fast from there. Whatever happened, I agree with the judge that Marcus, and Clark, for that matter, only seemed concerned with themselves that night. Even if her death was an accident, she died in their presence and they didn't do anything to help try and save her, so they are still responsible on that level. 

But I do not feel it was an accidental death. There's just too much weirdness for me to think it's that simple. I will say, though, that Marianne's sister insisting that she was too smart to die accidentally...I mean, smart people can make mistakes and do stupid things all the time, and as she herself notes with that letter she said Marianne had written, Marianne did seem to have a history of picking men who weren't right for her. So if she could do that.... I don't mean that in a victim-blaming way, mind, just saying that, like I said, smart people can still make mistakes. 

*I know choking is a kink for some people and if both people are into it, fine, whatever. But clearly some of Marcus' partners weren't very comfortable with that kink and he didn't seem to care about that fact. 

Really, really bizarre story. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Annber03