S07.E01 Octavia's Story

[Hannah94]

15 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I'm not sure how they got her out but the roommate was a friend. She asked the friend to move in with her and help care for her.

The "friend" (enabler) moved in with her because she was a paid "care taker".......but ironically, she did the very opposite of caring for her. I think Octavia would be so much better off without said friend. She seemed to have her head on straight during that conversation saying "we are f***king up!" (essentially). Then they ordered fried chicken and biscuits literally seconds after that scene. Sweet Jesus, for real.....I. just. cannot. 

[DC Gal in VA]

6 hours ago, hookedontv said:

I haven’t watched yet but here I am, reading through the comments first. 

I really despise the name Nichelle. 

There. 

I said it. 

Oh no, no, no I love the name Nichelle because of my childhood role model Nichelle Nichols. She was the actress who played Lt. Uhura on the original Star Trek series as well as in several of the movie sequels. Back in the day, there were very few female actresses on tv and elsewhere that looked like me AND appeared in science fiction, which I truly loved since I was a little kid. Here are a couple of screen shots of her from the original series:

Oh boy, look at sister girl rocking that "No makeup makeup" look. When I do this look she's the one I try to emulate. Truly a beautiful woman.

And here:

 

 

She totally rocked that outfit! It's from the episode Mirror Mirror. Yeah, I am one of those people: Trekkies!

So if you hate that name, I can respect that for sure. Just wanted to share why I love it. I wonder if their mom named her because of Nichelle Nichols?

Peace out.😊

[DC Gal in VA]

1 hour ago, Lesia said:

i know!  No job, no bills, no lawn mowing, no raking, no driving to appointments, no shopping, no schedule to adhere to, NOTHING!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, and may I add no kids to take care of and all that comes with that: taking care of a sick child and/or rushing them to the emergency room at 2:00 a.m. when they have a high fever that won't break, PTA meetings, homework to check, shuttling them to after school activities, etc. No house cleaning, no laundry and astoundingly, considering how much she eats, no cooking or grocery shopping! Geez.

Again, thank you.

[Pepper Mostly]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

Dr Now cracks me up sometimes.  One enabler said “She gets so mad if I don’t bring her the food she wants” wherein Dr Now  responded “So?  She can’t get out of bed and hit you can she?”

LOL. 🤣

I am constantly saying "why are they so scared of these tubs? If I was in this situation I'd bring them a small healthy meal three times a day, delicious, refreshing ice water--with lemon, even! to drink, and crisp, crunchy celery and carrot sticks to snack on. If they bitched I'd just be "come at me, bro! Oh, what, you can't get up? Have another carrot stick".

25 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Oh no, no, no I love the name Nichelle because of my childhood role model Nichelle Nichols. She was the actress who played Lt. Uhura on the original Star Trek series as well as in several of the movie sequels. Back in the day, there were very few female actresses on tv and elsewhere that looked like me AND appeared in science fiction, which I truly loved since I was a little kid. Here are a couple of screen shots of her from the original series:

Oh boy, look at sister girl rocking that "No makeup makeup" look. When I do this look she's the one I try to emulate. Truly a beautiful woman.

And here:

 

 

She totally rocked that outfit! It's from the episode Mirror Mirror. Yeah, I am one of those people: Trekkies!

So if you hate that name, I can respect that for sure. Just wanted to share why I love it. I wonder if their mom named her because of Nichelle Nichols?

Peace out.😊

Nichelle Nichols is a fucking GODDESS. Full stop.

[Hannah94]

3 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

I am constantly saying "why are they so scared of these tubs? If I was in this situation I'd bring them a small healthy meal three times a day, delicious, refreshing ice water--with lemon, even! to drink, and crisp, crunchy celery and carrot sticks to snack on. If they bitched I'd just be "come at me, bro! Oh, what, you can't get up? Have another carrot stick".

 

I feel the same way. If I loved someone as the enablers claim they do, I would do exactly what you said. Bring them a salad, veggies, no pizza, no Chinese ("but it's friiiiied!!!!"). If I care about you and I want you to get up and move about, GET UP and make your own food. Watching the camera crews follow these pounders around while they fill their electric carts up with crisco and brownies.....just no. Hell I am not even obese but I know I cannot eat 3 goddamn pizzas in one sitting, not even one single time. 

[Caoimhe]

7 hours ago, hookedontv said:

I haven’t watched yet but here I am, reading through the comments first. 

I really despise the name Nichelle. 

There. 

I said it. 

It made me think of Nichelle Nichols who I loved on Star Trek!

edit to add this Nichelle was NOTHING like her!!!!

Edited January 4, 2019 by ThereButFor

[Elizzikra]

1 hour ago, Hannah94 said:

The "friend" (enabler) moved in with her because she was a paid "care taker".......but ironically, she did the very opposite of caring for her. I think Octavia would be so much better off without said friend. She seemed to have her head on straight during that conversation saying "we are f***king up!" (essentially). Then they ordered fried chicken and biscuits literally seconds after that scene. Sweet Jesus, for real.....I. just. cannot. 

There were two caretaker/enablers. The first was the one who lived with her in KC, after she moved out of her sister's house. The second was Nishelle who moved with her to Texas. Both were friends before they were caretakers. Or at least,  I think that was the story.

[QuinnInND]

Part of why the enablers bring food is the obese person controls the money. Or is a parent. Psychological abuse. If you love me, you'll take care of me. And someone screaming bloody murder at you, and you've got no place to go isn't fun either. Similar to children who still love their abusive parent.  Or women who stay with an abusive partner. I will say, that I say the same thing. Give them a plate of carrots, take away their phone, shut the door and let them scream. But in reality it's not that easy. The enablers need mental health care too. To be able to stop being enablers. Just my 2 cents. 

[Ray Adverb]

On 1/3/2019 at 12:23 PM, berwoman said:

I miss the days when we'd actually get to see someone work hard, stick to plan and have success.  Now we have to wait until the "Second Year" episodes...  I used to find this show uplifting..  Look at that person work hard and lose weight!  Now I find it depressing - Look at the super-fattie be slovenly, completely unaware and combative!  

Not that this will prevent me from watching, mind you.

The approach is turning me off too.  Unlike you, it does make me consider deleting from my DVR.  I don't watch reality TV to laugh at people.  I watch it to see people succeed.  The 2017 season was particularly bad with this "look at the pathetic fatso!" theme, culminating in the double whammy of James King and the Assanti Brothers.  Very nearly lost it after that garbage.

[JJ1]

People have asked me why I’m addicted to this show and I try to explain to them that - for me - the fascination is not with the 600 pounder. For me, it’s all about the enabler. I wish they would do a few shows and focus just on the enabler. What is the quality of their life? Why do they continue to provide massive amounts of food when they KNOW it is harmful? What is the satisfaction they get from their role in this bizarre circus? They need therapy just as much as the 600 pounder.  Maybe more. I mean, I can at least understand how someone likes pizza and donuts and overeats. But the enabler’s issues are much more complex. 

[Globegrl]

15 hours ago, aliya said:

1. It's been years since my friend's WLS, and she eats whatever she wants. This is not a good thing and she is still very overweight.

2. I thought about the surgery and did all the pre-stuff up to the psych eval. For a long time, I was on a FB page for mature people getting the sleeve. So many had problems after surgery - not just medical issues, but an inability to stay away from the foods they abused previously, which was leading to weight gain. A lot of the women were besides themselves with fear - they had the surgery, there wasn't anything left, and they still didn't have their eating under control. It was sad, really. 

3. Did anyone see the extended show tonight? What was the name of Activia's jewelry business? The print was small - I thought it was Crayons and Chickens, but that's probably not it. : ) 

As a formerly very obese person I will say that the surgery really should be performed on the brain, not the stomach.  Obesity is a mental problem, the weight is just the byproduct.  I also know many people who regained a lot or all of their weight and it must be heartbreaking.  I lost my weight over about 8 years by cutting down portion sizes and cutting way down on sweets and junk.  I still struggle with the desire to eat and definitely my eyes are bigger than my stomach syndrome.  I still tend to cook more than what I need.  But I will never say I am cured. 

[Tabbygirl521]

“Fat Wranglers”! A reality show that delves into the psyches of enablers, following the same group for a year or so. Maybe in a group therapy setting - interspersed of course with plenty of footage of their obese charges throwing tantrums and eating a convenience store’s worth of junk food in one sitting. Viewers will be appalled and outraged, and then we’ll cut to the enablers explaining why they comply. Some will be sympathetic, like captive children. Others will be head-scratchers, like wimpy girlfriends who are willing to wipe ass 24/7. Will they wise up and start actually HELPING their charges? Tune in next week!

[aliya]

On 1/4/2019 at 7:03 AM, Mothra said:

Me, too.  I'm hoping that because his face was not blurred out in the photograph he was convicted.  If he were only the "alleged" rapist, I doubt that TLC could show his face.

So many of the patients on this show, especially the women (and it seems to me a preponderance of the black women) suffered child sexual abuse, leading them to overeat to the point of endangering their lives.  No one ever approves of rape (I hope, anyway), but to rape a child and absolutely destroy her life merits long, miserable imprisonment without parole.  The rapist might as well have murdered those little girls, as some of them do.  Particularly egregious when the child is placed in the care, at least part-time, of the rapist and thus has no chance of escape to a neighbor or someone else who might help.

Not only does the crime do long-term mental damage, but apparently none of these people have parents who send them to therapy. There have been some whose parents found out while the obesee was still young and there was time for therapy, but nothing. And even if they didn't have therapy when young, they could seek it as adults. I'm sorry they choose food to deal with their feelings, but I don't understand why they don't seek help. By time you are 450+ pounds, you have to know something is wrong besides just liking the occasional Krispy Kreme.

Edited January 9, 2019 by aliya

[aliya]

5 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Oh no, no, no I love the name Nichelle because of my childhood role model Nichelle Nichols. She was the actress who played Lt. Uhura on the original Star Trek series as well as in several of the movie sequels. Back in the day, there were very few female actresses on tv and elsewhere that looked like me AND appeared in science fiction, which I truly loved since I was a little kid. Here are a couple of screen shots of her from the original series:

Oh boy, look at sister girl rocking that "No makeup makeup" look. When I do this look she's the one I try to emulate. Truly a beautiful woman.

And here:

 

 

She totally rocked that outfit! It's from the episode Mirror Mirror. Yeah, I am one of those people: Trekkies!

So if you hate that name, I can respect that for sure. Just wanted to share why I love it. I wonder if their mom named her because of Nichelle Nichols?

Peace out.😊

Back in the day, I used to go to ST conventions (don't judge) and got to meet a lot of the cast. I was able to meet Nichelle and she was gorgeous in person. I've been following her work with NASA and women in science. It's so cool that she was able to turn that role into something that would change people's lives. 

[Caoimhe]

43 minutes ago, aliya said:

Back in the day, I used to go to ST conventions (don't judge) and got to meet a lot of the cast. I was able to meet Nichelle and she was gorgeous in person. I've been following her work with NASA and women in science. It's so cool that she was able to turn that role into something that would change people's lives. 

I loved that a woman was actually in charge of a station on the bridge!  Always thought she was amazing as a person as well.  

Back on topic, I found an online group dealing with the mental part of eating and food addiction.  It has been fascinating to see that so many of us share the same feelings and issues though the effect on our weights varies widely.  I guess patients on this show are even less able to deal with their emotional eating.  (One day recently I had to laugh when I looked at what I had eaten that day, if it went on every day I would be a 600 pounder too!  I can testify that a 10,000+ calorie day just isn’t as hard as it should be.)

[calpurnia99]

3 hours ago, JJ1 said:

People have asked me why I’m addicted to this show and I try to explain to them that - for me - the fascination is not with the 600 pounder. For me, it’s all about the enabler. I wish they would do a few shows and focus just on the enabler. What is the quality of their life? Why do they continue to provide massive amounts of food when they KNOW it is harmful? What is the satisfaction they get from their role in this bizarre circus? They need therapy just as much as the 600 pounder.  Maybe more. I mean, I can at least understand how someone likes pizza and donuts and overeats. But the enabler’s issues are much more complex. 

Yeah the enabling is so interesting. They know they it is so bad for their loved one but they don't stop. There is also a co-dependency going on. The enabler ALSO gets something emotionally by bringing the food. What they gain from it would vary.

 I have a friend with a very overweight 16 year old daugher, around 320 pounds. Yet my friend has so much junk in the house- the most fattening food I have ever seen in a refrigerator by far. I have not seen her pushing food on her daughter but I'm sure she does "to make her happy and show that she loves her" . The girl is adopted so the genetics of overweight are not part of it. One night we were out in a group and after a big dinner we went to get ice cream. I do love ice cream but I was full and also I didn't want any because I am lactose intolerant and I suffer from reflux and it was late-- I knew if I ate it I would be in a lot of pain so I said I was not getting any. Well this friend kept insisting that I get some, then she kept trying to get me to take a bite of hers and on and on and on pressuring me to eat it. She just would NOT let it go "don't you want some? don't you want some, I'll buy it for you, just take a bite" . I then realized she must equate food with love.  It's very sad. It was strange, why was it so important to her that I eat it?

Edited January 4, 2019 by calpurnia99

[IvySpice]

Quote

This is more like mid-season filler.  Can't believe they opened with this. If they had to open with this because it's the best they got, then I may not make it through the season. 

Yeah, this episode was a flabby apron of disappointment. Did NOT need to be two hours long. I always do some fast-forwarding with TLC shows, but this was ridiculous.

Nichelle was damn right that Popeye's biscuits are the devil. There was a Popeye's 50 feet from my front door for about ten years. I dealt with that by never going in there. At all. If I started going in there now and then on a special occasion, for a biscuit or some fried shrimp, I was going down that slippery slope. Not today, Satan biscuits!

[CrazyInAlabama]

Nichelle and Octavia should realize that if they both lose weight, and get a lot more mobile, then they could go places, and have some fun.  Their life would be so much better, but I'm afraid it won't turn out that way.  

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, aliya said:

Back in the day, I used to go to ST conventions (don't judge) and got to meet a lot of the cast. I was able to meet Nichelle and she was gorgeous in person. I've been following her work with NASA and women in science. It's so cool that she was able to turn that role into something that would change people's lives. 

There was an episode of the Star Talk Radio podcast (actually 2 parts, I believe) a few years ago that was an interview with her. She talked about how Martin Luther King, Jr. is the one who convinced her to keep doing the show when she had decided to quit.

 

1 hour ago, calpurnia99 said:

Yet my friend has so much junk in the house- 

A friend of mine and his wife are both probably in the 300+ range. Their older son (who's 7) looks like he's in danger of following in their footsteps (their 4-year-old is pretty thin, so far). Their kitchen counters are covered in junk food (and that's just what I can see without opening any cabinets).

[TVbitch]

6 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

The approach is turning me off too.  Unlike you, it does make me consider deleting from my DVR.  I don't watch reality TV to laugh at people.  I watch it to see people succeed. 

Maybe that is why they offered episode 2 online for early viewing. They should have just made episode 2  episode 1.

[ShortyMac]

9 hours ago, Hannah94 said:

He is utterly fantastic. My favorite line of his was when James K (weighed 800+ lbs) said "But I'm hungry. I need food!" And Dr. Now said "you have 800 pound of food in your body." 

My favorite is, "Where do you think your weight comes from, thin air?" from last season. 

[Mothra]

6 hours ago, aliya said:

Not only does the crime do long-term mental damage, but apparently none of these people have parents who send them to therapy. There have been some whose parents found out while the obesee was still young and there was time for therapy, but nothing. And even if they didn't have therapy when young, they could seek it as adults. I'm sorry they choose food to deal with their feelings, but I don't understand why they don't seek help. By time you are 450+ pounds, you have to know something is wrong besides just like the occasional Krispy Kreme.

Sometimes I think the trauma is too great for them to feel they can talk about it with someone they don't know.  In Octavia's case, though, it seems like she knew from the get-go that she needed psychotherapy.  I can't recall another obesee who asked to be sent for mental health before Dr. Now told them to.  I wonder why she didn't go on her own before she got so tremendous.  And if her rapist was convicted, why the court didn't order therapy for her--of course, maybe the  judge did, and she just wasn't taken to a therapist.

[Pondlass1]

Fast food and junk food is to blame for the burgeoning  number of 600+ pounders.   I doubt there was even one bedridden obese case 50 years ago when most meals were home cooked and portions small.  All the cooking shows on TV these days, yet most folk I know still stop off at the fast food place for the evening meal.

We're too busy to cook and fast food is cheap and as addictive as heroin.  Portion sizes are now at ridiculous levels.

The future is looking fatter and fatter.  Wider doorways and reinforced floors for everyone.

[IvySpice]

Quote

if her rapist was convicted

I don't believe he was. My interpretation of his face being unblurred in the photos is that he's dead. The likelihood of a poor black man going to jail for molesting a poor black girl 20+ years ago was tiny.

[DC Gal in VA]

18 hours ago, aliya said:

Back in the day, I used to go to ST conventions (don't judge) and got to meet a lot of the cast. I was able to meet Nichelle and she was gorgeous in person. I've been following her work with NASA and women in science. It's so cool that she was able to turn that role into something that would change people's lives. 

Oh aliya, now I am so envious of you for actually going to a ST convention, no judging from me. If they still have them and one is being held somewhere near me, I'd like to go. And you got to meet the "Goddess" in person. Awesome! I had no idea about her work with NASA; thanks, I'll check that out.

Here's a photo of her from 2012 where she had attended a convention with other cast members:

 

Can you believe she's 80 years old in that photo? Still gorgeous IMHO.

Back to Octavia and Nichelle, especially Nichelle. Do you think she knows she was most likely named after a strong, beautiful pioneering actress and civil rights activist? Her mother gave her a special name out of love and I just wish that she could embrace that she is special and worthy of a great life. I completely hate what that scumbag did to both of them but what I want them to know is that they are punishing themselves for his crimes and, in a way, letting him win!

I know it's been speculated here that he's dead. However, if he's not and the statute of limitations hasn't expired, I believe it would be so empowering for them to bring charges against him. Let's face it, this was probably not his first, nor last, rodeo. Males like him enjoy doing that and will keep on doing it until they're too old, too infirmed, dead or in prison. I'll bet that there would be plenty of other victims he attacked in subsequent years where the statute of limitations has not expired. Just a thought.

No offense to the really wonderful and decent adult men and teenage boys out there, but I'm old school and just do not believe in male babysitters. Now, are there female sexual deviants out there? Absolutely. But statistically the overwhelming number of offenders are males who molest both girls as well as boys. Hell, I would be giving major side eye to any man who is eager and always available to babysit. There are a lot of men out there who don't even want to be bothered with their own damn kids let alone someone else's. If anything good overall can come from these shows I hope it's that any parents watching will see the horrible repetition of childhood sexual abuse and how it can possibly destroy a person's life and just be very cautious about who you leave your children with.

[Suzywriter]

On 1/3/2019 at 9:11 AM, junemeatcleaver said:

It was refreshing to see a nice manipulator versus someone who snaps when they don't get their plate of a dozen scrambled eggs and ten bacon NOW.  But it could have been less manipulation and more Octavia and her friend became too isolated and got trapped in their delusion and denial.

I'm really glad Dr. Now is paying lip service to these people need to be vetted by a doctor before they load themselves in a van to Houston or take medical transport.  I'm surprised more people don't get seriously ill or die, maybe they do and TLC chooses not to continue filming or they scrap the episodes.

Load themselves...

🤣🤣🤣

[calpurnia99]

But some of these people were well on their way to a 600 pound life before they were raped. I had a lot of terrible things happen to me in my life, but if I was already addicted to something or going in a bad direction, when any of these stressful things happen, I guess the problem could have become worse, but if if was already going on, it sounds like something to blame it on. I mean there is something severely wrong when you hit 500 pounds and don't take action at that point (or sooner)

43 minutes ago, Suzywriter said:

Load themselves...

🤣🤣🤣

LOL!!! more like 10 fireman!

[Suzywriter]

Octavia really is very pretty.

[essexjan]

For once I didn't dislike the subject of this episode. So many of the people on this show are repellent, not just physically but in their personalities and the way they treat other people. Octavia has had a rough life, she had to take on a lot of responsibility at a young age and had the history of abuse so many of the women on this show have had. Her house was clean, and she kept herself as clean as anyone who has to shit in their own bed is able to do.

Women are bombarded with information about diets from girlhood, so I don't understand how Octavia and her friend could be so clueless that they didn't know fried chicken and biscuits, BBQ, chips, etc. would take them out of the 1200 calorie plan.  For her to gain so much weight after she was on the diet, Octavia must have had nothing but cheat days. She and her friend's relationship was an unhealthy, co-dependent dynamic, and they both lacked the psychological skills to enable them to navigate the problems that being on the diet caused between them. I'm glad the new carer who came in seemed to kick their asses into gear, and I hope they both lose weight.

I wish Octavia well. She's an intelligent woman, and although she's had a sad life, she doesn't seem bitter like so many of the other people on this show.

 

In other news, I got up from being curled up on the sofa the other day and my legs were stiff. I said out loud "Owww, mah laaayyygs", and noted the 'WFT?' faces of everyone else in the room.

[LeesburgLee]

6 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Oh aliya, now I am so envious of you for actually going to a ST convention, no judging from me. If they still have them and one is being held somewhere near me, I'd like to go. And you got to meet the "Goddess" in person. Awesome! I had no idea about her work with NASA; thanks, I'll check that out.

My apologies if this is against the rules, but... google Star Trek: The Cruise. It’s basically a ST con at sea. My husband and I did the first one - it was a blast! The third is at sea this week. The next one is set for March 2020.

 

Back on topic... I enjoyed seeing Octavia making jewelry. It was so nice to see one of the participants doing something productive (and cash-generating) with her time. I do a lot of embroidery, quilting, and other handwork, and one of the side benefits is that I can’t snack (and get my hands dirty) while doing it. 

[aliya]

On 1/4/2019 at 4:53 PM, calpurnia99 said:

I am lactose intolerant and I suffer from reflux and it was late-- I knew if I ate it I would be in a lot of pain so I said I was not getting any. Well this friend kept insisting that I get some, then she kept trying to get me to take a bite of hers and on and on and on pressuring me to eat it. She just would NOT let it go "don't you want some? don't you want some, I'll buy it for you, just take a bite" . I then realized she must equate food with love.  It's very sad. It was strange, why was it so important to her that I eat it?

People have so many allergies, dietary, and religious restrictions on what they eat, others should just be satisfied with a "No, thank you" and stop asking. I'm lactose intolerant as well, so I know how that goes.

[aliya]

8 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Oh aliya, now I am so envious of you for actually going to a ST convention, no judging from me. If they still have them and one is being held somewhere near me, I'd like to go. And you got to meet the "Goddess" in person. Awesome! I had no idea about her work with NASA; thanks, I'll check that out.

No offense to the really wonderful and decent adult men and teenage boys out there, but I'm old school and just do not believe in male babysitters. Now, are there female sexual deviants out there? Absolutely. But statistically the overwhelming number of offenders are males who molest both girls as well as boys. Hell, I would be giving major side eye to any man who is eager and always available to babysit. There are a lot of men out there who don't even want to be bothered with their own damn kids let alone someone else's. If anything good overall can come from these shows I hope it's that any parents watching will see the horrible repetition of childhood sexual abuse and how it can possibly destroy a person's life and just be very cautious about who you leave your children with.

You said what I wanted to say about male baby sitters. 

I went to those conventions all the time, often dragging Aliya jr along (they were pretty much family affairs). They were the only way to see blooper reels, which were fun. Usually there were Hollywood make up artists, vendors selling all kinds of SYFY tv & movie stuff, costume parades, autograph tables, fan fiction and art, etc. It was always a fun time. 

[aliya]

On 1/4/2019 at 10:41 AM, DC Gal in VA said:

Thank you, thank you, thank you, and may I add no kids to take care of and all that comes with that: taking care of a sick child and/or rushing them to the emergency room at 2:00 a.m. when they have a high fever that won't break, PTA meetings, homework to check, shuttling them to after school activities, etc. No house cleaning, no laundry and astoundingly, considering how much she eats, no cooking or grocery shopping! Geez.

Again, thank you.

And as a lapsed lawyer, let me add, no helping clients nobody whose house your need to save from bankruptcy due to hospital bills and nobody crying to you on the phone because they've just been laid off from their job of 15 yrs because the company is going bankrupt and they (as in, you) have just sued them on behalf of the bankrupt estate to get them to pay back a loan to the company.  After that job, I almost entered a convent to try and retain what little good karma I had left. 

[Elizzikra]

22 hours ago, Mothra said:

Sometimes I think the trauma is too great for them to feel they can talk about it with someone they don't know.  In Octavia's case, though, it seems like she knew from the get-go that she needed psychotherapy.  I can't recall another obesee who asked to be sent for mental health before Dr. Now told them to.  I wonder why she didn't go on her own before she got so tremendous.  And if her rapist was convicted, why the court didn't order therapy for her--of course, maybe the  judge did, and she just wasn't taken to a therapist.

Criminal court couldn’t order anything for her as a victim. They might have been some sort of victims’ support fund that could have helped pay for it but they couldn’t have demanded it. I think she didn’t go as a child because no one sent her. As a young adult I think she had her hands full raising her younger sister after mom died. Then eventually she was bedridden and would have found it difficult, if not impossible to find a therapist.

 

I also don’t think she had much money. If Medicaid is her insurer, it’s very difficult to find a mental health provider that accepts it. If she has private insurance she would have to pay for therapy upfront and the. Wait to be reimbursed, perhaps not in full. I don’t think she can afford that. 

 

11 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Fast food and junk food is to blame for the burgeoning  number of 600+ pounders.   I doubt there was even one bedridden obese case 50 years ago when most meals were home cooked and portions small.  All the cooking shows on TV these days, yet most folk I know still stop off at the fast food place for the evening meal.

We're too busy to cook and fast food is cheap and as addictive as heroin.  Portion sizes are now at ridiculous levels.

The future is looking fatter and fatter.  Wider doorways and reinforced floors for everyone.

[CatherineM]

Our adopted son was one of 9 siblings. All are beyond dysfunctional and screwed up. All fetal alcohol, abuse survivors. Only one of the kids turned out to be a functioning, productive adult. His sister who was raped by their dad. The mom was forced to take her to counseling as part of the criminal process. Otherwise they threatened the kids would be taken by family services. 

[StitchPunk]

15 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

No offense to the really wonderful and decent adult men and teenage boys out there, but I'm old school and just do not believe in male babysitters. Now, are there female sexual deviants out there? Absolutely. But statistically the overwhelming number of offenders are males who molest both girls as well as boys. Hell, I would be giving major side eye to any man who is eager and always available to babysit. There are a lot of men out there who don't even want to be bothered with their own damn kids let alone someone else's. If anything good overall can come from these shows I hope it's that any parents watching will see the horrible repetition of childhood sexual abuse and how it can possibly destroy a person's life and just be very cautious about who you leave your children with.

A lot of men don't babysit or just avoid kids, including their own out of fear of being accused of something forcing women to do it. I'd imagine a lot of women get away with it because people assume a woman wouldn't do that, women can't legally be charged in some places. Statistics tend to be skewed because of people not saying anything so it's probably closer to being even really. 

I have to wonder why the background for most of the people on this show tend to be so similar. Do certain events tend to lead to people getting to that size more often or to people being more likely to agree to being on television? Or is it possibly on purpose? I wouldn't think it would be too intentional  

[Mothra]

8 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Criminal court couldn’t order anything for her as a victim. They might have been some sort of victims’ support fund that could have helped pay for it but they couldn’t have demanded it. I think she didn’t go as a child because no one sent her. As a young adult I think she had her hands full raising her younger sister after mom died. Then eventually she was bedridden and would have found it difficult, if not impossible to find a therapist.

 

I also don’t think she had much money. If Medicaid is her insurer, it’s very difficult to find a mental health provider that accepts it. If she has private insurance she would have to pay for therapy upfront and the. Wait to be reimbursed, perhaps not in full. I don’t think she can afford that. 

Good points all.

There's also the question raised by an earlier poster about the fact that Octavia was well on her way to super-obesity before the rapes she told us about.  I wonder if there were other traumas--of course her family history, but other assaults she may not even remember.  A child with no underlying pathology doesn't gain weight like that.  I believe there was more going on in very young Octavia's life than we know about.

[kj4ever]

16 hours ago, essexjan said:

For once I didn't dislike the subject of this episode. So many of the people on this show are repellent, not just physically but in their personalities and the way they treat other people. Octavia has had a rough life, she had to take on a lot of responsibility at a young age and had the history of abuse so many of the women on this show have had. Her house was clean, and she kept herself as clean as anyone who has to shit in their own bed is able to do.

Women are bombarded with information about diets from girlhood, so I don't understand how Octavia and her friend could be so clueless that they didn't know fried chicken and biscuits, BBQ, chips, etc. would take them out of the 1200 calorie plan.  For her to gain so much weight after she was on the diet, Octavia must have had nothing but cheat days. She and her friend's relationship was an unhealthy, co-dependent dynamic, and they both lacked the psychological skills to enable them to navigate the problems that being on the diet caused between them. I'm glad the new carer who came in seemed to kick their asses into gear, and I hope they both lose weight.

I wish Octavia well. She's an intelligent woman, and although she's had a sad life, she doesn't seem bitter like so many of the other people on this show.

 

In other news, I got up from being curled up on the sofa the other day and my legs were stiff. I said out loud "Owww, mah laaayyygs", and noted the 'WFT?' faces of everyone else in the room.

So many people have misinformation about nutrition.  I've learned a lot about it over the years, and am a WW Lifetime member.  I lost over 75 pounds to get to goal and have been there for a couple of years.  A friend of mine wanted to join, and was simply dumbfounded that butter was so many calories/points.  After the first week she said "Well I guess it isn't just genetics" lol.  Her diet had been horrible and WW opened her eyes big time.  She got to her goal weight too :)

I'm sure Octavia had a bunch of cheat days.  I'm wondering if she had a scale that would weigh her at her apartment.  A lot of times when you are losing you can cheat a bit, and it doesn't show up that week.  It will show up eventually, because Math.  Anyway, they think "Oh I got away with it this week, so I can do it again!"  Most people I know that have suffered from the "I don't know why I'm not losing anymore" are doing some variation of this. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

My guess is that when the girls were raped, that it was either ignored, or they didn't tell because of the shame of being a victim.     Anyone who says blame the victim doesn't happen is wrong, and when almost every person on this show says they were molested, or raped at some time, or repeatedly, there is still a stigma with being a victim.

My family was old fashioned in their attitudes, and I am sure that if I had ever been assaulted (no, fortunately I wasn't) it would have been blamed on me.    The most revolting part of assaults in a family, or with boyfriends or girlfriends attacking children is that it's often covered up, blamed on the victim, or simply ignored, because no one will go outside the family and have it known that something is happening to the children.   Then there are the parents that trade their child for financial support, or because they don't protect their own child.     The families where the abuse is known, that still have the rapist around the family disgusts me.      I can't imagine having to associate with your attacker, and be expected to act like nothing ever happened.      Look how long it took for Octavia and Nichelle to talk about their rapes, and how many years they lived with the thought that they were the only ones.     

I can see how rape as a child or teen can lead to the family of all women, like in Octavia's case.           

[Hannah94]

3 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

So many people have misinformation about nutrition.  I've learned a lot about it over the years, and am a WW Lifetime member.  I lost over 75 pounds to get to goal and have been there for a couple of years.  A friend of mine wanted to join, and was simply dumbfounded that butter was so many calories/points.  After the first week she said "Well I guess it isn't just genetics" lol.  Her diet had been horrible and WW opened her eyes big time.  She got to her goal weight too :)

I'm sure Octavia had a bunch of cheat days.  I'm wondering if she had a scale that would weigh her at her apartment.  A lot of times when you are losing you can cheat a bit, and it doesn't show up that week.  It will show up eventually, because Math.  Anyway, they think "Oh I got away with it this week, so I can do it again!"  Most people I know that have suffered from the "I don't know why I'm not losing anymore" are doing some variation of this. 

I cannot stand how some of the pounders say "I deserve a cheat day". Then at their weigh in, they gained 50-60 pounds. You didn't have a cheat day; you had a cheat month! It is hard work and it does suck but to succeed, you cannot allow yourself to fail even once, not even when that bacon cheeseburger is calling your name. I've been up and down with my weight most of my adult life and I finally came to the realization that it is indeed a lifestyle change. Not just a change for a day or week; but every minute of every day. And after finally pounding that into my head, I am able to maintain a healthy weight. Another thing, if they do cheat JUST ONCE, they have to scale back their calories for the next day or two or three to compensate. That is something some of them cannot grasp. (Their mindset: I can eat 30,000 calories today but I will go back to 2,000 calories tomorrow.) Good job on the loss, btw! :)

[DC Gal in VA]

On 1/3/2019 at 10:19 AM, Sterling said:

I always wonder why Dr. Now doesn't start them on therapy right away?  I get that he needs them to commit, but they do need to understand the root of it, and they can do the therapy while they're working on losing the first 50.  

Plus, since they are all moving to Houston without knowing a soul, it gives them someone to talk to, to vent to, to help them understand their own struggles.

I think a lot of times, the enablers don't want the participant to lose the weight, because often, friendships and relationships are treated like competitions.  These are the same types of "friends" who get jealous of a promotion, an engagement, a raise.  If Octavia is successful, then Nichelle (in her mind) is unsuccessful.

Nichelle was never going to eat salads and chicken, unless it's drowned in Ranch dressing and fried.  So she keeps "treating" her friend to fried chicken and other garbage, to purposely keep Octavia stuck.  Octavia obviously couldn't even move to her own living room for 9 months, so Nichelle almost abused her a la "Misery".

Thank the Lord for Calita.  I love how Dr. Now was holding her, too, responsible, and how she stepped up to the plate and batted that eating plan out of the park.  We all need a Calita in our lives sometimes.  Calita, if you're reading here, you done good.

 

I have always wondered the same thing too Sterling. During this episode I recall Dr. Now giving an explanation for not starting off his patients on therapy but I can't remember exactly what he said. Do you or anyone else here remember?

[cynicat]

17 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

I have always wondered the same thing too Sterling. During this episode I recall Dr. Now giving an explanation for not starting off his patients on therapy but I can't remember exactly what he said. Do you or anyone else here remember?

Dr. Now said that starting the diet is relatively easy, anyone can pretty much do the first month.  The hard part is staying on the diet in the long term, and that's where they need  the most help.  In past shows he's also said that the real need for therapy is when these people lose their crutch, the thing that they turned to when stressed.  Until the food is taken away, they don't realize how it helped them cope and many of them can't handle it without therapy.

[Pepper Mostly]

On 1/4/2019 at 4:53 PM, aliya said:

Back in the day, I used to go to ST conventions (don't judge) and got to meet a lot of the cast. I was able to meet Nichelle and she was gorgeous in person. I've been following her work with NASA and women in science. It's so cool that she was able to turn that role into something that would change people's lives. 

No judgement from me, I went to a couple of cons myself. My husband and I were more TNG fans, we got to meet Michael Dorn (Worf) and Marina Sirtis (Troi). Marina is adorable and so funny! We still tell stories about her!

On 1/4/2019 at 7:09 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

Nichelle and Octavia should realize that if they both lose weight, and get a lot more mobile, then they could go places, and have some fun.  Their life would be so much better, but I'm afraid it won't turn out that way.  

But they don't want to go out and do things. I don't know if they're just creatures of habit, or afraid to try new experiences for whatever reason. But neither one has expressed the desire to travel, or go to concerts, or go shopping, or go to museums or yoga or paint night or any activity. They want to sit around and eat. 

21 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Oh aliya, now I am so envious of you for actually going to a ST convention, no judging from me. If they still have them and one is being held somewhere near me, I'd like to go. And you got to meet the "Goddess" in person. Awesome! I had no idea about her work with NASA; thanks, I'll check that out.

Here's a photo of her from 2012 where she had attended a convention with other cast members:

 

Can you believe she's 80 years old in that photo? Still gorgeous IMHO.

 

Read her book! Its called "Beyond Uhura" and its great! Sadly, she's been diagnosed with dementia and doesn't do cons any more. 

1 hour ago, Hannah94 said:

I cannot stand how some of the pounders say "I deserve a cheat day". Then at their weigh in, they gained 50-60 pounds. You didn't have a cheat day; you had a cheat month!

The thing is, they consider eating healthy and eating less punishment. Until they decide that they can enjoy eating healthy and try to make it enjoyable they will always cheat, and always feel like they are being deprived. 

[Starlight925]

16 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

But they don't want to go out and do things. I don't know if they're just creatures of habit, or afraid to try new experiences for whatever reason. But neither one has expressed the desire to travel, or go to concerts, or go shopping, or go to museums or yoga or paint night or any activity. They want to sit around and eat. 

Exactly!  Eating junk food is their form of entertainment.  They don't express the desire to do much else, and I suspect that even those who have lost the weight and kept it off still miss their times where they can just sit with a 5000 calorie "snack".

Often, Dr. Now will remove part of a stomach and remark at how big it is, as apparently, the stomach is so elastic, it can become quite large, enough to accommodate a ton of food all at once.  For people close to normal weight, 5000 calories at once would literally make them sick, but for these people, it's become such a lifelong habit that it feels hollow and empty when they aren't consuming like that.

For Octavia, she was probably engaging in black and white thinking:  She probably did have quite a few 1200 calorie days, but offset those by 10,000 calorie days.  But for a person of Octavia's size, she can eat 10,000 calories in almost one "sitting", so for her, it was "just one" cheat.  That fried chicken/biscuits meal alone is 1000 calories, and that was their "snack/reward".  In fact, that's really the only time we saw, on camera, her eating anything other than the 1200 calorie meals.

I have about 15 lbs. to lose, and when I stick to my own 1200 calorie/day plan (I log into MyFitnessPal), the healthy food edges out all else.  I can't "afford" much other than my protein, healthy fat, and good carbs (sweet potatoes, etc.).  And I do lose weight when I stick to it, so it was so obvious that neither of these ladies was sticking to it, early on.

[Hannah94]

25 minutes ago, Sterling said:

Exactly!  Eating junk food is their form of entertainment.  They don't express the desire to do much else, and I suspect that even those who have lost the weight and kept it off still miss their times where they can just sit with a 5000 calorie "snack".

Often, Dr. Now will remove part of a stomach and remark at how big it is, as apparently, the stomach is so elastic, it can become quite large, enough to accommodate a ton of food all at once.  For people close to normal weight, 5000 calories at once would literally make them sick, but for these people, it's become such a lifelong habit that it feels hollow and empty when they aren't consuming like that.

For Octavia, she was probably engaging in black and white thinking:  She probably did have quite a few 1200 calorie days, but offset those by 10,000 calorie days.  But for a person of Octavia's size, she can eat 10,000 calories in almost one "sitting", so for her, it was "just one" cheat.  That fried chicken/biscuits meal alone is 1000 calories, and that was their "snack/reward".  In fact, that's really the only time we saw, on camera, her eating anything other than the 1200 calorie meals.

I have about 15 lbs. to lose, and when I stick to my own 1200 calorie/day plan (I log into MyFitnessPal), the healthy food edges out all else.  I can't "afford" much other than my protein, healthy fat, and good carbs (sweet potatoes, etc.).  And I do lose weight when I stick to it, so it was so obvious that neither of these ladies was sticking to it, early on.

The camera doesn't show the truth. A 600 pound girl doesn't gain 60 pounds in one "munt" by cheating one time. And.....that fried chicken meal was way more than 1,000 calories. 

[kj4ever]

1 hour ago, DC Gal in VA said:

 

I have always wondered the same thing too Sterling. During this episode I recall Dr. Now giving an explanation for not starting off his patients on therapy but I can't remember exactly what he said. Do you or anyone else here remember?

I was shocked when he said they don't need it for the first part.  My siblings are just an injury away from becoming participants on this show unfortunately.  They went to some educational meeting a couple of years ago for gastric, and they had to start therapy and lose "X" number of pounds before getting the surgery.  They both decided not do it when they saw how little they would be able to eat.  If we go to a buffet they eat more in one sitting than I do in a week, but they'll both swear I got the good genes in the family....

[Starlight925]

46 minutes ago, Hannah94 said:

The camera doesn't show the truth. A 600 pound girl doesn't gain 60 pounds in one "munt" by cheating one time. And.....that fried chicken meal was way more than 1,000 calories. 

You are absolutely right.  That fried chicken meal was likely meant to feed a few people, so likely was way more than 1000 calories!  Plus, as you said, she was obviously eating way after the camera crews went home.

17 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

I was shocked when he said they don't need it for the first part.  My siblings are just an injury away from becoming participants on this show unfortunately.  They went to some educational meeting a couple of years ago for gastric, and they had to start therapy and lose "X" number of pounds before getting the surgery.  They both decided not do it when they saw how little they would be able to eat.  If we go to a buffet they eat more in one sitting than I do in a week, but they'll both swear I got the good genes in the family....

It's definitely eye-opening when people realize how much they really do eat.  Years ago, a new co-worker came to dinner with us, and she declined the shared appetizers and ate very little, and declined the shared desserts.  We (stupidly) started pressuring her.  Come on, we all eat it!  Come on, join us!  She said she had to tell us a truth:  that she had had gastric bypass and lost 100+ lbs., and she simply couldn't, as in literally, eat that much at one time.  From then on, I've never played the "come on, join us in this food" game again.  She showed us her before & after's.  She said she settled in, after, at around a size 14, which was a healthy size for her.  She worked with us for years, and I always appreciate her for being so open and honest about it.

[AZChristian]

Did someone say their "treat" was from Popeye's?  Here's a link to their nutritional information, including calories.  I wasn't just appalled at the calories - the amount of sodium and cholesterol are unbelievable.  

[IvySpice]

To me, the Popeye's calorie counts illustrate how much this is about overeating, not just about junk. If your meal was two drumsticks, cole slaw, and a biscuit, that fits just fine into a 2000-calorie-per-day diet that will keep most adults out of the obese range. These participants would lose a ton of weight on 2000 calories. The problem is bad food AND no portion control. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

My guess is that Octavia and Nichelle are so used to eating huge meals that they legitimately think they're just cheating a little by getting what looked like the family size meal each, so they're both going to have to look at portion sizes very differently going forward, and it will be hard to change what they've been doing all of their lives.  

I'm really pulling for Octavia, and Nichelle, because they're not bad people, they've just been taught their entire lives that food = love, and comfort, and that will be necessary to change.     I think deep down they both are so damaged by what that horrible man did to both of them, that they both need survivor therapy also.    They need to learn they have value, and to learn that they deserve to have a good life, and that's going to take a lot of therapy also.  

Edited January 9, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama