S37.E13: Finale

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Gabby seems to embrace emotional breakdowns.  She wept in the voting booth and said something about being such a tough decision.  But, then she thought she would be clever by writing "Kentucky Nick" on the ballot.  

If her emotions were genuine, shouldn't her ballot have read something like Ni Angeli Mike  NICK and be soaked in tears?

Who was she faking the emotions for at that point?  And to what end?

[pwdrpuff]

I Don't Tweet, so who knows.

Edited December 20, 2018 by pwdrpuff
Tweet

[Ms Blue Jay]

I spend a lot of time on Twitter where race activism is huge and a woman of colour is used to mean any woman who is not white.  I'm in Canada, so we use visible minority here; I'm more comfortable with that.  But trust me, on social media this is a very normal term to use and technically Angelina is correct.  I personally would not have brought it up in the FTC, but I obviously didn't have the upbringing she did so I can't really comment on how she thought she was playing and why. 

Thanks for the tip about Chelsea Meissner @peachmangosteen; she is still gorgeous.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[ProfCrash]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Who was she faking the emotions for at that point?  And to what end?

Yeah, I know. Because there was so much for Gabby to gain by manipulating the voting pen with her tears. (eye roll) I think Dan's trip on the stairs was intentional as well.

People are annoyed that the Davids didn't stick together and Gabby is the convenient target. And this is where I get the male vs female thing because Carl was the one who visibly sideline Gabby and was openly lying to her. But Gabby is to blame because she didn't ignore Carl's obvious game play. She should have sucked it up and just gone along with Carl's plan and vote out Alison, who Gabby was allied with, and then deal with Carl's attempt to vote out Gabby the next tribal. All Gabby's fault. Christian went along with it because he had been lulled into complacency by the hypnotic sounds of Gabby's tears.

All on Gabby. Yup. Why would you think anything else?

[Bryce Lynch]

28 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The Big Idol moment is the thing that makes me the most annoyed.  She already had the votes to get Alison out.  The idol moment is purely for humiliation and the jury.  Mike understood that immediately, he was just so flabbergasted by her gall he didn't know how to say that.  Getting voted out is already the worst, and it probably gets worse the deeper you get into the game.  That would have already upset Alison quite a bit, and we saw her have breakdowns already.  I also don't know how to articulate why this one thing REALLY annoyed me regarding Angelina but it does.  She had to throw everything in there - planting a fake idol for Alison to find, making Alison use the fake one relieved she was safe, then the international humiliation when she wasn't, having her excited everyone would vote for Angelina, then Angelina "OuTsMaRtInG tHeM" by playing her idol and having Alison knocked out instead...... all of this when Alison already had the votes against her.  It's so moronic.  And maybe a savvier player could have outsmarted Angelina into doing something ELSE with the idol and voted her big-headed ass out.

I don't see Angelina getting a lot of "hate", though.  I see people assessing her very rationally.  Then again I don't read everything.

Kenzie She COULD HAVE DIEDDDDDDDDDDDDD  ;)

This is a great analysis of Angelina and the Big Idol moment.  Why on earth would you rub salt in the wounds of someone you are sending to the jury, for absolutely no reason?  She could have just quietly played her idol to make sure she was safe, and left it at that.  If she really wanted a potentially game changing, "Big Move", maybe should should have played the idol for Alison, and gotten Mike voted out.   That would have shown some courage and would have possibly at least put her ahead of Alison at FTC.  What boggles my mind the most, is that Angelina thought the jury would be impressed by her cruel, totally gratuitous, fake idol stunt.

Also, much like Gabby, she felt the need to tell other players that she wanted to make her "Big Move" to help HER own resume.  That is the most idiotic way to sell a move and should only be used if you are trying to sell a fake move, that you are not really going to make.   

I don't hate Angelina.  I find her unintentionally hysterical.  That said, if she were not so inept, her meanness and arrogance would bother me a lot more.  Her ineptitude makes her into a harmless "villain".  

[RandomWatcher]

When two survivor geniuses meet

[pwdrpuff]

I'm Gen-x that never got into social media.  I don't tweet or read tweets, so I have no idea what labels everyone is gravitating towards now.  I only have a FB account because of my extended family likes to stay connected, but I only check it maybe twice a year.   That said, I would not feel comfortable comparing my struggles to a black woman ever.   

Edited December 20, 2018 by pwdrpuff

[himela]

I'm proud cause I predicted exactly how it would go! Everyone was saying "there is no way the davids would be in the final three being only two of them", but the edit was saying Nick was getting a winner story, Angelina was getting a goat story and Mike was getting A story so those three would be in the final. Kara got nothing, Alison was non-existant and Davie was just the likeable guy. I liked the season but I didn't like the winner. He did deserve the win but I just can't get myself to like him.

Joe, Aubry, David Wright and who was the fourth? Damn I'd give all of them up to watch Christian once more. I don't like many players, but I love Zeke and now Christian. Give us more Christian please! I bet they asked him and he said no!!!!:(((

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Yeah, I know. Because there was so much for Gabby to gain by manipulating the voting pen with her tears. (eye roll) I think Dan's trip on the stairs was intentional as well.

People are annoyed that the Davids didn't stick together and Gabby is the convenient target. And this is where I get the male vs female thing because Carl was the one who visibly sideline Gabby and was openly lying to her. But Gabby is to blame because she didn't ignore Carl's obvious game play. She should have sucked it up and just gone along with Carl's plan and vote out Alison, who Gabby was allied with, and then deal with Carl's attempt to vote out Gabby the next tribal. All Gabby's fault. Christian went along with it because he had been lulled into complacency by the hypnotic sounds of Gabby's tears.

All on Gabby. Yup. Why would you think anything else?

Gabby should have sucked it up and either gone along and tried to work things out, or come up with a better plan.  Carl probably would have been ripe for the picking in the next TC, and she could have gotten rid of him without alienating (herself and Christian) from Nick and Davie.  The plan she came up with and sold to Christian was obviously suicidal to both of their games.  If she kept her emotions in check until the next TC, and built a consensus to whack Don CARLeone, the game might have ended up a lot better for her and Christian.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

11 minutes ago, pwdrpuff said:

I don't twitter, so I have no idea what labels everyone is gravitating towards now.  I only have a FB account because of my extended family likes to stay connected, but I only check it maybe twice a year.   That said, I would not feel comfortable comparing my struggles with a black woman ever.

I think it's about community building, not necessarily comparison.  There is a lot of work and studies in Canada about what visible minorities face as a whole, then yes, it's broken down even moreso by background.  For example, everyone knows that in Toronto the population is 50% visible minorities as a whole.  That's huge.  It makes visible minorities feel like they have an enormous community as a whole.  In high school, for example, it was extremely useful for me to identify this way.  Not to compare myself to black women - just to feel a community.

[Rachel RSL]

6 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

All on Gabby. Yup. Why would you think anything else?

It was a stupid plan, initiated by Gabby based solely on the fact that she didn't like Carl. The Davids had no intention of turning on each other at that point until Gabby had another breakdown, crying about what a big meanie Carl was.  Pretty sure that's why people are putting most of the responsibility there on Gabby.  It was the beginning of the end for the Davids and it was Gabby who got the ball rolling.  If there had been a strategic reason behind it, I don't think people would be so harsh about it but Gabby made that decision based purely on her emotions.  (And, if I'm not mistaken, that was the episode where she was upset that Carl called her "emotional".)

 

2 minutes ago, pwdrpuff said:

I don't twitter, so I have no idea what labels everyone is gravitating towards now.  I only have a FB account because of my extended family likes to stay connected, but I only check it maybe twice a year.   That said, I would not feel comfortable comparing my struggles with a black woman ever.

I don't think Angelina ever compared her life to the struggles of a black woman. But she is absolutely a person of color and it's a little offensive to say that she's not allowed to use that term just because someone doesn't think she's the right color.

[pwdrpuff]

11 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I don't think Angelina ever compared her life to the struggles of a black woman. But she is absolutely a person of color and it's a little offensive to say that she's not allowed to use that term just because someone doesn't think she's the right color.

Maybe I should get a Twitter account to expand my horizons on the world.   

Edited December 20, 2018 by pwdrpuff
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[Bryce Lynch]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Who was she faking the emotions for at that point?  And to what end?

I have no idea if she was faking.  I suspect Gabby doesn't always know if her emotions are real or fake.  

 I just find it odd that she was supposedly so emotional and conflicted, but then on the spot came up with her "clever and whimsical" "Kentucky Nick" ballot.   

[himela]

Plus Mike did not even TRY to win. He only said he was happy to be there. Never once did he mention it was important for him to win or he wanted to be the sole Survivor and he deserved to win etc. In the contrary I was under the impression he could care less about the money.

[Jextella]

6 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I don't think Angelina ever compared her life to the struggles of a black woman. But she is absolutely a person of color and it's a little offensive to say that she's not allowed to use that term just because someone doesn't think she's the right color.

 

Agreed, and I was glad she brought it up.  In just a few years, minorities will collectively hold the majority.   I have no doubt in my mind that the racial struggles of African Americans are far greater than that of Latin Americans in this country (generally speaking), but they suffer too - especially first-generation immigrants, i.e. Angelina's parents if I have the story right. 

Given what she's been able to accomplish, Angelina was a good voice for the Latin American community.

Davie was amazing in representing African Americans.  I hope he gets some kind of crazy-good job out of this experience in which he can express his Blerdness for all to see.  A wilderness show with a black host would be a welcome "first".

[Rachel RSL]

4 minutes ago, pwdrpuff said:

My point is, that in 41 yrs I have never heard anyone claim to be of color that was not black.  That just blew my mind when she said it.  Maybe I should get a Twitter account to expand my horizons on the world. 

It really has nothing to do with Twitter.  It's a pretty common phrase used in most mainstream media, most recently you hear it used often to discuss the lack of diversity at awards shows. 

[pwdrpuff]

6 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

It really has nothing to do with Twitter.  It's a pretty common phrase used in most mainstream media, most recently you hear it used often to discuss the lack of diversity at awards shows. 

I only work with white men, so maybe that's why I've not heard of this.  Their usual topic of discussion is video games, surfing, and the gym.  It's much more evolved than when I was on a ship with mostly men who talked all kinds of nasty things I didn't want to hear.

Edited December 20, 2018 by pwdrpuff

[brilliantbreakfast]

4 hours ago, MisterBluxom said:

Does anyone have an opinion on the fact that only about 15% of idols are found by women?

If the production staff did something to deliberately make it more difficult for women to find the idols - more so than men, I would be sympathetic. Of course, it would be an incredible outrage.  But it seems to me that is almost impossible for TPTB can find a way to do that. So, this may be a valid issue.  Why are only 15% of the idols found by women?

More importantly, should TPTB attempt to do anything to give women an advantage somehow? To help them find a way to level the playing field?  That would seem to me to be pretty ridiculous.

I have a theory why women tend to find so many fewer idols than do men. But I'm reluctant to post it here because, I would expect that many women would soundly criticize me and accuse me of being "sexist".  The truth is that I really do fear being criticized for such thinking. It's happened before and I can tell you that it's a very unpleasant experience.  Also my theory is kind of long and involved. Definitely not the kind of thing I should do while typing at a keyboard. Probably would be best if I went away for a day or two and composed my thoughts and tried to slant them in such a way not to offend any one gender.

But I'm going to put my theory into a spoiler box and try to keep it real brief. I would ask everyone who feels they would tend to get offended by such a theory to please not open the box. It's not a very great idea anyway. Not as if you will miss out on anything important if you never read it. OK. Here goes:

  Reveal hidden contents

My theory has to do with evolution and the way in which the human species has evolved. For all the time that humans have been alive, men and women have adopted different roles. Men have tended to be "hunter / gatherers" while women have tended to be "nest builders and caring for the family".

These roles have been imprinted on our psyches for many thousands of years and I'm guessing they are not behaviors that are easy to change overnight. Even if we recognize that this division of labor is out of place in the 21st century and becoming ever increasingly out of place, it's not easy to somehow change these behaviors."

Well ... that's about it in a nutshell.  Am I saying that our behaviors are governed by the collective experience of the entire species? I really don't know.  The word "governed" is definitely wrong. But "influenced" may be closer to the truth. I get the feeling that men just feel more at home going out and hunting for stuff and searching for adventures. I know this is not true for everyone. But maybe it's just going to take some time and experience before these behaviors change?  Again - I really don't know. But I thought it would be wrong to just ignore this issue and "sweep it under the rug" so to speak.

I have no issues with what you said, and I'm a woman.  I also knew what it was going to be about.  The idea that men and women are always EXACTLY THE SAME is ridiculous.  The only reason we seem to have to think this way is that we as a species tend to rank things, and things that men are inclined towards are always seen as more valuable than things that women gravitate toward.  Angelina is a perfect example that proves what you said.  She perceives her cruelty as being somehow indicative of being a "strong woman", when in actuality it's a caricature of what she thinks a "strong man" would be like.

[pwdrpuff]

We all know that woman are typically raised to be non aggressors.   Even the most A-Type will try to play down their ambition or drive to win, so that they are not viewed overly aggressive.  Whereas a man is not penalized for such actions, because it is inherently seen as a masculine trait.  It's no wonder why only 15% of idols are found by woman.  

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

She got zero votes, LOL.  If she doesn't get it now, she never will.  She also watched the season, I presume.  If she thinks she came off the world's great player only ignored because of her gender, well good for her.

That, and Jeff saying "100 feet?  More like 8" were breathtaking.  Also, the poster here who called it Mount Fiji.  I'll be laughing for days.

I bring this up again only to be petty but the only time we saw Alison "strategize" was so sit there crying about being The Big Bad Threat only to be approached by Kara and told what to do.  I hope Nick and Kara watch this back and feel badly for thinking Alison ever amounted to anything.

Why wasn't Alec at the reunion?

 

Not only does she not get it now and not only will she never get it, but if the rumors that Probst likes her and wants to let her play again are true ....

She will come back to the new season with seemingly boundless energy and confidence and proclaim, "I am a lot smarter now and a lot more experienced and I guarantee you that I will win it all this time. If you thought I went far last time, just you wait and see what I will do this time. Nothing can stop me. I am worth any ten ordinary players because I can negotiate for rice.

Edited December 20, 2018 by MisterBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

15 hours ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

I have no issues with what you said, and I'm a woman.  I also knew what it was going to be about.  The idea that men and women are always EXACTLY THE SAME is ridiculous.  The only reason we seem to have to think this way is that we as a species tend to rank things, and things that men are inclined towards are always seen as more valuable than things that women gravitate toward.  Angelina is a perfect example that proves what you said.  She perceives her cruelty as being somehow indicative of being a "strong woman", when in actuality it's a caricature of what she thinks a "strong man" would be like.

I found what you said to be incredibly uplifting.

If you might be agreeable I'd like to discuss one other sexist type of issue.  But it would be completely "off topic" and out of place here. Maybe after I get some sleep I'll send you a Private Message if that would be OK?

Edited December 21, 2018 by MisterBluxom

[Haleth]

30 minutes ago, Jextella said:

Davie was amazing in representing African Americans.  I hope he gets some kind of crazy-good job out of this experience in which he can express his Blerdness for all to see.  A wilderness show with a black host would be a welcome "first".

In Davie's Ponderosa video he and Carl discuss how they both came in on day 1 wanting to dispell stereotypes re Black men. That is one reason why they bonded. 

I had no idea Angelina was Latina so it surprised me when she noted she is a PoC.  

[ProfCrash]

42 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

It was a stupid plan, initiated by Gabby based solely on the fact that she didn't like Carl. The Davids had no intention of turning on each other at that point until Gabby had another breakdown, crying about what a big meanie Carl was.  Pretty sure that's why people are putting most of the responsibility there on Gabby.  It was the beginning of the end for the Davids and it was Gabby who got the ball rolling.  If there had been a strategic reason behind it, I don't think people would be so harsh about it but Gabby made that decision based purely on her emotions.  (And, if I'm not mistaken, that was the episode where she was upset that Carl called her "emotional".)

 

45 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Gabby should have sucked it up and either gone along and tried to work things out, or come up with a better plan.  Carl probably would have been ripe for the picking in the next TC, and she could have gotten rid of him without alienating (herself and Christian) from Nick and Davie.  The plan she came up with and sold to Christian was obviously suicidal to both of their games.  If she kept her emotions in check until the next TC, and built a consensus to whack Don CARLeone, the game might have ended up a lot better for her and Christian. 

So Gabby should have voted out an ally and then targeted the person who wanted her out of the game? That is your definition of good game play? Because is my world, you look at the people who have dropped you from your alliance as a threat and you don't vote out the people who are willing to work with you.

And this still does not address the fact that Carl's game play was awful. Carl isolated someone who claimed was an alliance mate. Carl lied to a person he was suppose to be in an alliance with. Carl was making decisions without talking to members of his alliance. All of that is on Carl. Carl is one who was dropped Gabby. Carl.

Gabby read the signals properly and dealt with a major threat to her game. I do think that Gabby was wrong to target Christian when she did but the Carl vote was perfect. And she did build a consensus to take out Carl. It didn't include Carl's allies who were willing to go along with Carl's decisions that isolated Gabby.

I get that it is the "downfall" of the Davids but the blame belongs on Carl, with a decent portion on Nick and Davie for not reeling Carl in. Carl got comfortable with his power and made some poor game choices. His closest alliance mates allowed him to do so. Blaming Gabby for seeing that Carl was isolating her and dropping her from their alliance is silly. Carl did not respond to Gabby's complaints about his plotting with Kara and Alison before talking to Gabby and Christian about the Alec vote. Why should Gabby or Christian approach Carl again? Why didn't Nick and Davie realize that Carl was making a massive mistake that would hurt all of their games?

Why is the only women in the group getting the blame? Oh, because she cries.

Yeah. Carl messed up. Gabby messed up with the Christian vote but she was 100% correct to not sacrifice an ally that was not stabbing her in the back, Alison, and targeting the "ally" who was happily, willfully, and blissfully ignoring her in Carl.

[meep.meep]

My favorite part of the final tribal council was Davie telling Angelina that the definition of a "selfless deed" was that you did it without expecting anything in return.  Ricegate was not what she thought it was going to be.

[Bryce Lynch]

39 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

 

So Gabby should have voted out an ally and then targeted the person who wanted her out of the game? That is your definition of good game play? Because is my world, you look at the people who have dropped you from your alliance as a threat and you don't vote out the people who are willing to work with you.

And this still does not address the fact that Carl's game play was awful. Carl isolated someone who claimed was an alliance mate. Carl lied to a person he was suppose to be in an alliance with. Carl was making decisions without talking to members of his alliance. All of that is on Carl. Carl is one who was dropped Gabby. Carl.

Gabby read the signals properly and dealt with a major threat to her game. I do think that Gabby was wrong to target Christian when she did but the Carl vote was perfect. And she did build a consensus to take out Carl. It didn't include Carl's allies who were willing to go along with Carl's decisions that isolated Gabby.

I get that it is the "downfall" of the Davids but the blame belongs on Carl, with a decent portion on Nick and Davie for not reeling Carl in. Carl got comfortable with his power and made some poor game choices. His closest alliance mates allowed him to do so. Blaming Gabby for seeing that Carl was isolating her and dropping her from their alliance is silly. Carl did not respond to Gabby's complaints about his plotting with Kara and Alison before talking to Gabby and Christian about the Alec vote. Why should Gabby or Christian approach Carl again? Why didn't Nick and Davie realize that Carl was making a massive mistake that would hurt all of their games?

Why is the only women in the group getting the blame? Oh, because she cries.

Yeah. Carl messed up. Gabby messed up with the Christian vote but she was 100% correct to not sacrifice an ally that was not stabbing her in the back, Alison, and targeting the "ally" who was happily, willfully, and blissfully ignoring her in Carl.

a) I'm not sure I agreed with Carl's game play in not letting Gabby in on the Alison vote.  But he seemed concerned that she might tell Alison and not go along.  Leaving someone out of a vote against a member of the other alliance is maybe a 4 on a scale of 1 to 10 of Survivor betrayals.  It is something people can move on from.  But, even if Gabby couldn't move on (and maybe she shouldn't) waiting another TC to go after Carl would have been 1,000 times better strategy.  

b) I don't think Gabby had a real alliance with Alison.  Alison was in "anybody but me" mode and would work with anybody.  

c) It was the worst possible time to turn on the David's alliance.  They had just scrapped and struggle and spent 3 advantages to get the numbers.  If they voted out Alison and Carl played "godfather" for another episode, it would probably have been easy to convince the Davids to vote him out at the next TC, as he was both being a bit obnoxious and making himself appear to be a big threat.  At that point they could have voted off Carl and still had the numbers.  Then, she and Christian would have all sorts of options.  Gabby, especially, would be in a good position, as she wouldn't have been viewed as a big threat.   

d) Gabby over read the signals.  She was at the bottom of Carl's idea of the alliance, for that moment.  But, Carl did not have the power to keep her there and the more he tried to enforce his will, the easier it would be to convince Davie and Nick to vote him out, once they didn't need him for the numbers. Gabby probably could have floated to at least the Final 4 and might have been a FTC goat, along with or instead of Angelina.

The bottom line is, Gabby was probably never going to win Sole Survivor because she was a below average player in all 3 aspects of the game.  No ill timed, "BIG MOVE" was going to change that.   Christian was the bigger idiot of the 2, for agreeing to her suicide pact.  He had a real chance to win, but the Carl vote all but ended it.  

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The Big Idol moment is the thing that makes me the most annoyed.  She already had the votes to get Alison out.  The idol moment is purely for humiliation and the jury. 

It also bothered me that she [Angelina] giggled and said "maybe it's a little bit mean girl."  It was a whole lot mean girl and by saying it herself she seemed to think that made it okay, just as she prefaced bringing up the rice issue after a reward by saying, "I hate to play this card."  She knows these things are going to look bad but she thinks she makes it okay by "owning" it in advance.

How many times did Angelina use the phrase "lean in" last night? Ever since  Sheryl Sandburg's book made that an acceptable  term for being pushy and grasping, and the already pushy and grasping women of the world have embraced the term with both arms, just like the women who least needed assertiveness training once jumped on that craze.  Not saying there isn't a need for all that, it's just sad to see it so misused.

[Bubbetv]

In that moment and with that editing context, I totally got on board with her, “jam your hubris up your ass” fake idol play. Not my proudest sensibility ever, but there it was. I hate watched that broad, and thought the rest, especially the stupid second fake idol plot, was her clueless hateable self. But laughing the first time-yeah I did take a beat to stifle my own...

[Jobiska]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Gabby seems to embrace emotional breakdowns.  She wept in the voting booth and said something about being such a tough decision.  But, then she thought she would be clever by writing "Kentucky Nick" on the ballot.  

If her emotions were genuine, shouldn't her ballot have read something like Ni Angeli Mike  NICK and be soaked in tears?

Did she say something about a tough decision?  I thought she said "I'm already crying!" kind of laughing at herself--I think she was more overcome by the moment, not undecided.

Speaking of moments in the voting "booth," I was really touched by Davie's prayer.  I'm not much of one for typical praying myself, and I've been frustrated when people pray to win on reality shows, but it was sweet that he prayed for God to take care of the 3 finalists (however he phrased it).  

[plurie]

1 hour ago, himela said:

Plus Mike did not even TRY to win. He only said he was happy to be there. Never once did he mention it was important for him to win or he wanted to be the sole Survivor and he deserved to win etc. In the contrary I was under the impression he could care less about the money.

Mike's final tribal council was terrible! I was surprised, since he's a writer and actor. He didn't make a single argument for himself. Up until then, he had a fairly decent shot at winning, despite being rich. He played a good game, arguably better than Nick, but it seemed like he gave up at the last minute.

[ProfCrash]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

a) I'm not sure I agreed with Carl's game play in not letting Gabby in on the Alison vote.  But he seemed concerned that she might tell Alison and not go along.  Leaving someone out of a vote against a member of the other alliance is maybe a 4 on a scale of 1 to 10 of Survivor betrayals.  It is something people can move on from.  But, even if Gabby couldn't move on (and maybe she shouldn't) waiting another TC to go after Carl would have been 1,000 times better strategy.  

b) I don't think Gabby had a real alliance with Alison.  Alison was in "anybody but me" mode and would work with anybody.  

c) It was the worst possible time to turn on the David's alliance.  They had just scrapped and struggle and spent 3 advantages to get the numbers.  If they voted out Alison and Carl played "godfather" for another episode, it would probably have been easy to convince the Davids to vote him out at the next TC, as he was both being a bit obnoxious and making himself appear to be a big threat.  At that point they could have voted off Carl and still had the numbers.  Then, she and Christian would have all sorts of options.  Gabby, especially, would be in a good position, as she wouldn't have been viewed as a big threat.   

a) Carl had left Gabby out of the Alec vote. Gabby found out while Carl was talking to Alison after he confirmed it with Kara. So Carl had left her out of two votes. And had included Angelina and Kara and Alison on votes. I am sorry but why should Gabby think that going along with Carl's plan was a good idea. This was not a one off but two votes in a row.

b) Alison was the person that Gabby brought into the 6 person alliance. The one that Mike, Alec and Alison all flipped on, so none of them were particularly trust worthy. But Alison and Gabby had connected on the swap tribe and Alison was talking to Gabby pretty regularly. If a Goliath was going home, Gabby would have preferred Kara, Angelina or Mike. Alison was targeted because Davie had an relationship with Kara and Nick had an relationship with Mike and Angelina

c) There was no David alliance. The Davids had worked together for two votes to shore up their numbers but there was not an alliance. There was Gabby and Christian, Christian and Nick, Nick and Davie, and Davie and Carl. Yes, they pulled off a couple of moves together because they were all toast if they didn't. If there had been an alliance, Carl, Davie and Nick would have made sure to talk to Gabby before the Alec vote was decided. But they didn't. If there was an alliance, Carl, Davie and Nick wouldn't have talked about votes with three other non-alliance members before talking to Gabby.

Carl, Davie and Nick had no interest in working with Gabby. She was a vote that helped them on one vote, she was not a part of the John vote. That was it. Christian was not a part of that group, The Alec and Alison vote were decided without including Christian. Something that he pointed out at the Alec vote. Something that was ignored by Carl, Davie and Nick.

When it gets down to it, Gabby realized that there was no alliance and targeted the person who was targeting her. Carl has owned up to the fact that he was going after Gabby after the Alison vote.

So it gets back to Carl played his hand poorly, got caught and went home. Blaming Gabby for Carl's crappy play is not right. Gabby should not have targeted Christian the next vote, that was crappy play on her part. But Carl was the one who isolated Gabby and Christian with his play. Honestly, I think Carl is fine with how it played out. He knew he messed up and doesn't seem to be upset about it.

[amazingracefan]

The whole Angelina idol play didn't upset me as much as some, I'd be surprised if Allison was that upset, she guessed it was fake after all.  The problem between those two wasn't maybe fully outlined this season, but fake idols are part of the game now and people do try and make a show of doing things at tribal.  The main point was that Angelina seemed desperate for some kind of move, which she did need, and that was quite transparent both in her attempts to persuade and the pointless nature of it anyway. 

8 minutes ago, plurie said:

Mike's final tribal council was terrible! I was surprised, since he's a writer and actor. He didn't make a single argument for himself. Up until then, he had a fairly decent shot at winning, despite being rich. He played a good game, arguably better than Nick, but it seemed like he gave up at the last minute.

We likely only see a small part of the tribal, maybe someone brought up how rich he was or he just said more, I don't know. 

[cooksdelight]

15 hours ago, LanceM said:

Jeff Probst stated that the player he most wants to see return is everyone's favorite Angelina

What f’d up universe is Jeff living in? I will never watch a season if she is back, after what she did to Alison. Who is 100 times the strong woman Angelina thinks she is. She disgusts me.

[MMLEsq]

15 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Another thing about Mike . . . he and Natalie ran in the same two TAR seasons; 14 & 18. Eerie, right?

Sincere apologies if this was discussed or explained elsewhere and I missed it, but....  can you explain this?  

I don't remember Natalie ever being on TAR and, since I don't trust my memory at all, I just looked up the casts of both of those seasons of TAR and Natalie wasn't on either.  I followed it up with a more general search for Natalie's name (and Natalia's name to boot) in connection with TAR and nothing came up.

[drdeputy]

Angelina got exactly zero votes and deserved every one of them.  Evil, manipulative, entitled, self-absorbed....she's not worth the time it would take to come up with more descriptors.  She should have used her idol for Alison.  That was her one and only chance to make something of it, but she couldn't see past her own self-importance.

Mike waffled, as he had done so often, at the end.  I didn't care for some of his moves and attitudes, but he could have won.

Nick should have saved Kara and made Angelina build fire with Mike.  Kara didn't have much on her resumé, but somehow he thought she had a chance in the final vote.  He was right about Angelina, but how easy was that?  Not a move at all.

Given the choices toward the end, Nick deserved the win.  Of the final 10 or so, I think only Mike had a chance,  but he wasted it.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, drdeputy said:

Angelina got exactly zero votes and deserved every one of them.  Evil, manipulative, entitled, self-absorbed....she's not worth the time it would take to come up with more descriptors.  She should have used her idol for Alison.  That was her one and only chance to make something of it, but she couldn't see past her own self-importance.

Mike waffled, as he had done so often, at the end.  I didn't care for some of his moves and attitudes, but he could have won.

Nick should have saved Kara and made Angelina build fire with Mike.  Kara didn't have much on her resumé, but somehow he thought she had a chance in the final vote.  He was right about Angelina, but how easy was that?  Not a move at all.

Given the choices toward the end, Nick deserved the win.  Of the final 10 or so, I think only Mike had a chance,  but he wasted it.

Taking Angelina to FTC was an obvious, but excellent move.  She never had a chance at getting any votes.  Kara and Mike were both much bigger threats at FTC.  Was Nick supposed to make a dumb move?

[Jobiska]

17 minutes ago, MMLEsq said:

Sincere apologies if this was discussed or explained elsewhere and I missed it, but....  can you explain this?  

I don't remember Natalie ever being on TAR and, since I don't trust my memory at all, I just looked up the casts of both of those seasons of TAR and Natalie wasn't on either.  I followed it up with a more general search for Natalie's name (and Natalia's name to boot) in connection with TAR and nothing came up.

Natalie Anderson, winner of Survivor San Juan del Sur, who raced on TAR with her twin Nadiya ("Twinnie!") twice.  Nadiya was I believe the first boot on the Survivor season (It was a Blood v. Water season).  

[Bryce Lynch]

12 minutes ago, MMLEsq said:

Sincere apologies if this was discussed or explained elsewhere and I missed it, but....  can you explain this?  

I don't remember Natalie ever being on TAR and, since I don't trust my memory at all, I just looked up the casts of both of those seasons of TAR and Natalie wasn't on either.  I followed it up with a more general search for Natalie's name (and Natalia's name to boot) in connection with TAR and nothing came up.

I think the poster meant Natalie Anderson, who won Survivor San Juan del Sur.  She and her twin sister Nadiya were on TAR twice and her sister was the first person voted out in San Juan del Sur.

 

But, Mike and his father Mel ran TAR in 2 different seasons than the Anderson "Twinnies".  Nobody named Natalie ran in TAR in either season 14 or 18, when Mike and Mel ran.  

[seacliffsal]

Many have wondered why Nick didn't take Kara to F3 and let Angelina and Mike compete with the fire challenge.  I think she actually had some moves that, while controversial, would have earned her some respect.  Her social game also looked really good, plus she did well in challenges.  I think he took the sure bet (Angelina) and just took his chances with who would win the fire challenge.

[amazingracefan]

20 minutes ago, MMLEsq said:

Sincere apologies if this was discussed or explained elsewhere and I missed it, but....  can you explain this?  

I don't remember Natalie ever being on TAR and, since I don't trust my memory at all, I just looked up the casts of both of those seasons of TAR and Natalie wasn't on either.  I followed it up with a more general search for Natalie's name (and Natalia's name to boot) in connection with TAR and nothing came up.

Not the Natalie of this season, the earlier one who was part of the incredibly annoying 'twinnies' on the race.  That ensured I was never favourably disposed to her.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, amazingracefan said:

Not the Natalie of this season, the earlier one who was part of the incredibly annoying 'twinnies' on the race.  That ensured I was never favourably disposed to her.

But, neither Natalie Anderson nor anyone else named Natalie ran in TAR 14 or 18.  The person who posted this was mistaken. 

I despised the Twinnies on TAR, but Natalie won me over on Survivor.  It was probably because Nadiya got voted out first and the Twinnies are only really annoying when they are together.  

4 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Many have wondered why Nick didn't take Kara to F3 and let Angelina and Mike compete with the fire challenge.  I think she actually had some moves that, while controversial, would have earned her some respect.  Her social game also looked really good, plus she did well in challenges.  I think he took the sure bet (Angelina) and just took his chances with who would win the fire challenge.

I'm not sure how much chance Kara would have had against Nick.  But bringing Angelina was an absolute no-brainer.  She had zero chance of getting any votes.  

[ljenkins782]

49 minutes ago, plurie said:

Mike's final tribal council was terrible! I was surprised, since he's a writer and actor. He didn't make a single argument for himself. Up until then, he had a fairly decent shot at winning, despite being rich. He played a good game, arguably better than Nick, but it seemed like he gave up at the last minute.

His tone of voice and body language were super unfortunate. I get the feeling that he's the kind of guy that's great in one on one or small subsets of a group, where he can bond with people over talking shit about the other members of the group, so maybe it was difficult for him to have the entire group together and address them all at once.

Quote

Many have wondered why Nick didn't take Kara to F3 and let Angelina and Mike compete with the fire challenge.  I think she actually had some moves that, while controversial, would have earned her some respect.  Her social game also looked really good, plus she did well in challenges.  I think he took the sure bet (Angelina) and just took his chances with who would win the fire challenge.

Besides the fact that Angelina was unlikely to get any votes, she WAS the most likely to hold a grudge against Nick for not taking her. Had she lost the fire challenge and gotten sent to the jury, she probably would not have voted for him and very possibly would have made it her mission to poison the waters against him at Ponderosa. We saw how determined she was to get revenge on Alison for small crimes, Nick ending her shot at a million dollars would have really set her off.

Kara was completely zen about her exit from the game and we don't know how Mike would have reacted had he lost, but I'm pretty sure we can all envision what Angelina's would have been. And I bet her jury conversation would be along the lines of Amazon Heidi's "I'm going to keep asking you questions until you say the thing I want to hear, that it was MEEEEEE who deserved to be in the finals." 

[watch2much]

1 hour ago, plurie said:

Mike's final tribal council was terrible! I was surprised, since he's a writer and actor. He didn't make a single argument for himself. Up until then, he had a fairly decent shot at winning, despite being rich. He played a good game, arguably better than Nick, but it seemed like he gave up at the last minute.

I agree.  Didn't he also says something along the lines of "I've got 100 people working for me"?  Not too smart to remind everyone that you seem to be financially secure vs someone who grew up in a trailer park.  Mike kept talking about the experience....could be the jury felt he didn't need to win, he'd got his experience.

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, plurie said:

Mike's final tribal council was terrible! I was surprised, since he's a writer and actor. He didn't make a single argument for himself. Up until then, he had a fairly decent shot at winning, despite being rich. He played a good game, arguably better than Nick, but it seemed like he gave up at the last minute.

I got a real kick out of that. Remember when he said, "I want to surprise myself"?

Well, I think this game was his to lose and .... lose it he did.

I wonder if he was surprised. What do you think?

 

"I have dozens and hundreds of people working for me."  Really Mike? I'm super impressed. You must be a very wise and powerful numbskull. Who'd a thunk it?

Edited December 20, 2018 by MisterBluxom

[Jextella]

6 hours ago, plurie said:

Mike's final tribal council was terrible! I was surprised, since he's a writer and actor. He didn't make a single argument for himself. Up until then, he had a fairly decent shot at winning, despite being rich. He played a good game, arguably better than Nick, but it seemed like he gave up at the last minute.

He really did fumble.  There is an interview in which he talks about this.  It was interesting.  He knew he screwed up. 

Sitting against someone like Nick who he likes a lot - and for who he knew a million dollars would be "transformative" made it hard for him to think with a clear mind.  He didn't put up a good fight because on some level, he perhaps didn't want to.

I think many would have voted for him despite being financially well-off if they felt he was worthy.  It's HIM who might not have wanted to win it because he is financially well-off.

I have become a huge Mike fan.  It took awhile, but I'm there.  

link to article:

https://ew.com/tv/2018/12/20/survivor-david-vs-goliath-mike-white-finale/

Edited December 21, 2018 by Jextella

[Wouldofshouldof]

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Mike being drunk and/or hilarious

The best part was when he ran into a branch and muttered "bitch" at it.

[Kenzie]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

His tone of voice and body language were super unfortunate. I get the feeling that he's the kind of guy that's great in one on one or small subsets of a group, where he can bond with people over talking shit about the other members of the group, so maybe it was difficult for him to have the entire group together and address them all at once.

Besides the fact that Angelina was unlikely to get any votes, she WAS the most likely to hold a grudge against Nick for not taking her. Had she lost the fire challenge and gotten sent to the jury, she probably would not have voted for him and very possibly would have made it her mission to poison the waters against him at Ponderosa. We saw how determined she was to get revenge on Alison for small crimes, Nick ending her shot at a million dollars would have really set her off.

Kara was completely zen about her exit from the game and we don't know how Mike would have reacted had he lost, but I'm pretty sure we can all envision what Angelina's would have been. And I bet her jury conversation would be along the lines of Amazon Heidi's "I'm going to keep asking you questions until you say the thing I want to hear, that it was MEEEEEE who deserved to be in the finals." 

Nick was probably only looking for the biggest goat when he chose Angelina but you make an excellent point about her becoming vindictive if he didn't choose her. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Kenzie

[eel2178]

18 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

So very happy Nick won. Angelina once again talked herself into a deep hole. She has no self-awareness whatsoever..

She still hadn't figured out that she was in the final three only because everyone knew no one would vote for her.

[EllenB]

I think Mike's goal was to make it to the final three, but not as a goat.  He got a few votes, so mission accomplished for a personal goal.  I'm happy that Nick won, so it was satisfying for both of them.  Angelina was great comic relief.

[eel2178]

18 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For a doctor Alison is a fucking idiot.  The most useless person on this show.  

If she felt the need to check her pulse at every tribal council, she probably wasn't in the right physical shape to be playing the game to begin with.

[CloudySky]

16 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Mike IS whiny!  If anyone is whiny, it's Mike, not Angelina.  That's like Mike's whole thing.  Yes, Angelina talks up what she does a lot, and I thought her idol idea was beyond i d i o t i c but I don't view her as a whiny person who throws tantrums, at all.

 I came really close to not hating anyone this season (and I still don't, not really) but man Mike came close. I don't want to hear his whiny voice or see his face again for a long long time. The longer the game went on, the harder it appeared to be for him to hide his true personality. Angelina wants to be a villain so bad, but she never appeared truly mean spirited to me in heart. Whereas Mike more and more seems like the type of "funny guy" who's always putting people down and thinks he's better than everyone and so above it all.

Christian's "transformative player" bullshit made me want to barf. Did he just not want to vote for Nick because he voted him out? I was so glad Nick pointed out that Mike was able to ride coattails till the end which made it easy to "make moves" from the background in a majority alliance. Mike and Alison's whole thing has been 'our big move is not making a move'. This whole game these two are talking about switching it up but in reality keeping it safe with the Goliath numbers. And how pathetic is Alison that she accepted that bullshit reason for Mike's attitude towards her and still voted for him.

Angelina's only shot at winning was if she had gotten over her pettiness and played her immunity idol for Alison and voted Mike out. She might have won Davie's vote with that one! That would have been a truly epic tribal. She handled herself better than I expected though during final tribal and was even likeable at the reunion.