S01.E02: Red Flags and Parades

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Debra and John revel secretly in their newlywed bliss as Veronica, Terra, and Toby hatch a plan to prove their suspicions about their mother's new man.

Original air date: 12/2/18

[Gem 10]

I don’t know why, but I don’t like Debra’s very long fake hair hanging down.  Not very attractive for her age.

[Pickles]

I don’t like the pants she wears.

The homeless druggy girl in their house. Was she a buddy of john’s? 

[Gem 10]

Debra and her Mother sitting there like two dummies singing John’s praises. Lol.

[zentropa]

I am totally in. I listened to the podcast, which was essentially a documentary so I approached it that way. Sort of clinically. But seeing it dramatized on the screen is bringing a whole new tension and frisson (that family!) to the whole enterprise. And The Cliffhanger! It is hard to imagine how Debra will keep plowing through on the Tractor of Denial but I can't wait to see it.

Edited December 3, 2018 by zentropa

[ninjago]

A ringing endorsement from that idiot mother of hers should have been enough to send her running.

[Door County Cherry]

This is just a reminder as we head into a new week--

Please read the mod note for the forum.  Discussion in the episode threads should be limited to what has already been revealed on the show. If you'd like to answer some of the questions the episode poses or bring in facts yet to be revealed to explain why you feel the way you do, please take the discussion to the Fact vs. Fiction thread.

[Irritable]

Amazing she was so successful financially...it really comes across on this show that she’s a major dimwit.  

[PrincessPurrsALot]

The creepiness factor went through the roof on this episode.  She found his arrest record and restraining orders.  I agree she comes across as so addicted to the dick she'll believe anything he says.    But her ninja maneuvers accessing his drawer were great.  With all of his suave behavior and excessive juice drink making, he left all of these documents where she could easily find them.

[bichonblitz]

8 hours ago, Pickles said:

The homeless druggy girl in their house. Was she a buddy of john’s? 

I'm confused by this, too. People like that don't just show up on Balboa. Weird. 

Debra's soft whispery voice is getting on my nerves. What a strange woman. 

4 hours ago, Irritable said:

Amazing she was so successful financially...it really comes across on this show that she’s a major dimwit.

Totally agree. She has $80,000 cash in the house for "emergencies"? must be nice. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

John was already creeping me out within the first 30 seconds. It's one thing to make a new smoothie every morning (although the suspicious part of me was wondering if he was drugging her with something in those smoothies because I've been waiting for him to do something terrible), but putting toothpaste on her toothbrush and getting into the shower fully clothed to adjust the water temperature? I'm sure she interpreted it as John spoiling her and taking care of her but that's just super creepy and infantalizing to me. He was like a step away from tying her shoes for her (not that Debra seems like the kind of woman who wears sneakers, but still).

I must live a very different life because I don't have $80K in cash in my zombie apocalypse go bag. My spidey senses went off when he suggested putting the money in a safety deposit bag. Debra told him the whole point of having that money at the house was in case of an emergency. If there were an earthquake or something else, having to go to the bank to get it out of the safe deposit box would defeat the whole purpose of having the emergency cash. I hope you're okay kissing that cash goodbye, Debra!

The situation with Veronica and the car was another perfect example of how you can be an entitled spoiled brat but still be right. You are an adult who expects to borrow your mom's car whenever you want, yet you're complaining because you can't do so because your mom's adult boyfriend borrowed it first.

For the record, I don't think it's a huge red flag if a person doesn't own a car, especially in this day and age when you can take Lyft anywhere. That's doubly true if you live in a large city with public transportation. I know several adults who don't own cars for various reasons. and there's nothing sketchy about them. My issue becomes when you're an adult who doesn't own a car but you want to borrow someone else's car on a regular basis.

I know someone whose boyfriend didn't have a car when they met. He started staying over at her place all the time and then he would drive her car to drop her off at work and take her car out to do God knows what all day. To me, THAT was a red flag. I didn't automatically have an issue with him not having a car, but when he started taking her car all the time, that made him seem suspicious. It would be one thing to borrow it here or there, but constantly? If you need a car, then GET YOUR OWN CAR.

It should come as no surprise that I was totally fine with Veronica putting a tracker on the car. He is acting shady as fuck, so why not? And you know it must be important if she was willing to sell one of her precious purses to hire an investigator. The bag she sold goes for about $5K on the resale market so that should be enough to keep Nurse Carla investigating for at least a few weeks.

John's overreaction about someone named TS texting her was a huge red flag too. I know some women like jealousy and possessiveness, but I find it so off-putting and gross. I had one boyfriend like that (but not nearly as bad as John) and NEVER AGAIN. I don't need someone freaking out every time someone looks at me or talks to me. That’s a deal breaker.

Terra was being a bit petulant at therapy, but with good reason. Debra bringing her boyfriend to family events like Christmas when they've only been together for TWO MONTHS is ridiculous and inappropriate.

The guy playing Debra's niece Toby was Damian Dalgaard on Gossip Girl! He gets points for confronting John personally though. I was afraid John was going to attack him in broad daylight.

Debra's mom made me roll my eyes. Just because someone is courteous doesn't mean that they're truthful.

My favorite part of this episode was Debra going all Mission: Impossible to sneak back into her own house and read what was in John's two drawers. John always has an explanation for everything, but I don't know how anyone could stay with someone who has a restraining order due to multiple counts of stalking, harassment, blackmail, extortion, and threats. But since it's only episode 2, it's not likely that she's going to dump him over this.

ETA: Thanks to the writers who keep providing time frames for us, like Terra telling the therapist that Debra and John have only been dating for two months! Keep them coming because I suspect after Christmas, we won't have as many unspoken clues about how much time has passed.

Edited December 3, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo
Typo

[QuinnM]

Very shallow on my part but the Chanel bag?  Anyone in the know that can enlighten me on the details?

So the brother in law that he mother went over to hug after church, put a gun to her daughters head and killed her?  I have to say that a red flag for me.  Forgiveness yes, embracing the animal, yeah no.  it makes you wonder watching her support Debra and this lunatic if she didn’t play a part in her other daughters staying with a man that eventually killed her.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

22 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Very shallow on my part but the Chanel bag?  Anyone in the know that can enlighten me on the details?

It's a silver Chanel milk carton bag designed by Karl Lagerfeld for the 2014 fall/winter supermarket themed runway show. As I noted in my previous post, it resells for about $5K now.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Totally agree. She has $80,000 cash in the house for "emergencies"? must be nice. 

And she doesn't even know exactly how much it is so she won't know if any is missing. I mean, at this point she deserves to have John and/or her daughters and/or anyone who happens upon it steal it from her. People could be stealing from her left and right. She keeps purses (yes, I know they're expensive purses) in a safe but $80K+ in cash sitting in a goddamn drawer?!

40 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

For the record, I don't think it's a huge red flag if a person doesn't own a car, especially in this day and age when you can take Lyft anywhere. That's doubly true if you live in a large city with public transportation. I know several adults who don't own cars for various reasons. and there's nothing sketchy about them. My issue becomes when you're an adult who doesn't own a car but you want to borrow someone else's car on a regular basis.

Me neither (city dweller). I'm also not into cars - I know a Maserati and a Range Rover are luxury cars, but I don't care. Although it would give me pause for a doctor because of the on-call factor and a little more pause in SoCal because car culture is more of a thing there.

10 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I don’t know why, but I don’t like Debra’s very long fake hair hanging down.  Not very attractive for her age.

I think that's Connie Britton's real hair (although probably dyed at this point, she's 51). She's been known for it for ages.

The daughters remain awful but it's clear that women putting men first is a thing in that family (you wonder if they'll repeat the pattern). Debra has had four husbands and who knows how many boyfriends and Terra TOLD HER that the revolving door of dudes messed her up and Debra straight up ignored her. Debra's mother greeting the man who murdered her daughter with a hug is beyond fucked up.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

She keeps purses (yes, I know they're expensive purses) in a safe but $80K+ in cash sitting in a goddamn drawer?!

To be fair, Veronica is the one who keeps her purses in a safe, not Debra (she of the $80K stashed in a bag in her dresser drawer).

[Pickles]

Why in the world would you keep $80k in cash? Even in the event of an earthquake or whatever, I wouldn't feel comfortable with more than $1000 in cash in the house. 

And then I lost focus for a minute. She put John's money in the bag. Is the bag back in the drawer? He suggested putting in a safe deposit box. Did she nix that idea? Of course, the money will be long gone, no matter where it is stashed. 

[2727]

Why was Debra so set against John depositing his cash into her account? They are married. She apparently has a compulsion to keep very large sums of money laying around the house, but him wanting to put his measly $10K in the bank or a safe deposit box isn't odd on the face of it. Debra was the one acting suspicious and weird in that scene.

It's likely John had to use his real name in order to maintain his nursing license, but what gall! Our personal info is so easily available now via public records searches ... how could he possibly think he'd get away with such easily discovered lies?! Not to mention Debra's social/business circles and her familiarity with other physicians.

I thought the woman who broke into the apartment looked like the hospital patient John shirked drugs on, but it's probably some other woman he previously gaslighted and drove around the bend.

Edited December 3, 2018 by 2727

[TomGirl]

2 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Debra's soft whispery voice is getting on my nerves. What a strange woman. 

Me too. Between her whispers and the daughters’ terrible vocal fry, it’s distracting.  I know they are all trying to sound like the actual people they’re portraying, but it’s still grating.

[Showthyme]

Criminals do stupid things and have a certain arrogance about them so it doesn’t surprise me that John would hide his legal documents in plain sight. It does surprise me that John had all of those papers. Grifters and people who move a lot usually can’t put their hands on a birth certificate or tax return. The more they move, the less they have.

My MIL is one of those nuts who keeps a lot of cash. So much so, that she had shoe boxes of it and carried them to the car dealership to purchase a new car. The salesperson was not pleased when he had to count it all out. She has a bank account too but claims not to trust banks. I am trying not to judge but this shit makes it impossible. Just to play with her I told her that it looks like marijuana money. She is a good person who does crazy things.

I hope we get to learn more about the individual who broke into the house. She had to be a plant if charges were not pressed. 

Those voices.

[EdnasEdibles]

The $80,000 just sitting at home is so weird. I mean, get a safe! Like someone earlier said - the purses are in a safe but the cash is stuffed in a bag. Insanity. Just insanity.

I was also caught off guard by her daughter asking her in therapy if she could hold off introducing her boyfriend of just a few months to the small kids because it's confusing for them and then the daughter confessed the heartfelt sincere sadness that she always felt it was her fault when she got attached to these men and then they disappeared. And the mom was essentially like "I think that's a ridiculous request." SERIOUSLY? I'm divorced and I'm sorry, guys are not meeting my kids after just a few months. They are also not moving in after a few months so maybe Debra and I are just really different people. But if someone makes a reasonable request in a heartfelt way, can you try to honor their wishes?

I was also struck by how her client had no idea who this guy was even though her husband supposedly works at the same hospital and that didn't seem to set off any warning bells for her. 

[Amy Beth]

Toby the nephew made the classic mistake of letting the bad guy know that you are onto him. That just gives him an incentive to push another person in Debra’s life away. As damning as the information seemed to him, he should have let the private detective do her thing while sticking as close to Aunt Debbie as possible.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Amy Beth

[Ohwell]

Like @ElectricBoogaloo, John's infantilizing of Debra seriously creeped me out.   I, too, thought he might have been putting something in those morning drinks.   It's one thing to want to be close to someone but I'm surprised that Debra hasn't shown annoyance that John is too touchy feely.   The man can't keep his hands off of her.   It would drive me nuts, but I guess Debra is so needy that she thinks it's just another sign of his great love for her.    

I used to think Eric Bana was hot, especially when he played Hector in the movie Troy.   However, I don't feel that way now and I know it's mainly because of the character he portrays.  Aside from the fact that he's a dirtbag, I noticed he's constantly stuffing his face.  I so wanted him to choke on that sandwich he was eating when he was at the door talking to the nephew.  The man loves to eat so no wonder he works out at the gym.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by Ohwell

[TattleTeeny]

12 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I don’t know why, but I don’t like Debra’s very long fake hair hanging down.  Not very attractive for her age.

How old is she supposed to be? I think it works for her. I don't like the notion that age has something to do with how we can wear our hair. 

Quote

Debra bringing her boyfriend to family events like Christmas when they've only been together for TWO MONTHS is ridiculous and inappropriate.

I agree that Debra is a naive fool (infuriatingly so, which I thought back when I listened to the podcast too) but not for this. I've always included BFs in that kind of event.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Just amazing what a worthless scumbag this guy was. He must have been putting it on Debra something fierce. Must've been swinging a third leg too.

Must be nice to be so wealthy you can afford to be utterly oblivious about your basic safety and security.

Quote

I was also struck by how her client had no idea who this guy was even though her husband supposedly works at the same hospital and that didn't seem to set off any warning bells for her.  

I think maybe it did alert her a little because she realized part of the backstory he gave her actually belonged to her client's husband. But she likely decided it was just an amazing coincidence.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Joimiaroxeu

[Empress1]

18 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

How old is she supposed to be? I think it works for her. I don't like the notion that age has something to do with how we can wear our hair. 

IRL she met John when she was 59 (the site on which they met was for singles over 50). The real Debra has long blonde hair.

[bichonblitz]

Debra is a whackadoo. That conversation with her whackadoo mother was all kinds of strange. It doesn't surprise me she latched on to John. I'm put off by the way she treats her daughters. She has complete disregard for their feelings, almost a coldness towards them. They have reason to be suspicious of anybody that comes in to their mother's life because of Debra's awful track record.

[vmcd88]

I'm hooked on this show.  Totally not judging for her not being married 4 times but after 3 marriages I would think her spidey senses would tingle all over the place with this guy.   Those smoothie drinks were nice at first...creepy that he kept doing it.  Like...enough already.  

[Irritable]

At this point, I’m almost rooting for John because all the women in this family are either too stupid to live, or they are so spoiled, whiny and abrasive that even if they are right, I don’t like them or care if something bad happens to them.

I forget now, what was the order in which the “break in” leading to security cameras everywhere, and Debra showing John her duffel bag full of cash happened? If the cash was revealed first then I’m not getting why John would want constant video footage in their home that could show him stealing it? Or was it to keep his eye on Debra? Why push for security at her business? She needed some kind of security there, but why the cameras everywhere? Am confused.

Eric Bana did a great job with the facial expression of someone who finds out someone is on to him...again. Not nervous at all, just recognition that the nephew is now his enemy.

Why is Veronica always such a nasty beeyotch? There was no need to be a snotty hag when selling the Chanel purse.  I wish the shop owner would have said, “Sorry, not interested”, but then we wouldn’t have the private investigator.

[Lady of nod]

10 hours ago, Irritable said:

Amazing she was so successful financially...it really comes across on this show that she’s a major dimwit.  

vicki gunvalson comes to mind

[EdnasEdibles]

26 minutes ago, Irritable said:

I forget now, what was the order in which the “break in” leading to security cameras everywhere, and Debra showing John her duffel bag full of cash happened? If the cash was revealed first then I’m not getting why John would want constant video footage in their home that could show him stealing it? Or was it to keep his eye on Debra? Why push for security at her business? She needed some kind of security there, but why the cameras everywhere? Am confused.

 

I think it's just so he can better watch her. That combined with the fact that he was reading her texts shows me that he wants to make sure she's not seeing other men at work or doing anything he wouldn't approve of. Just typical creepy stalking behavior. 

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

I agree that Debra is a naive fool (infuriatingly so, which I thought back when I listened to the podcast too) but not for this. I've always included BFs in that kind of event.

I think a BFF and a boyfriend are different things though - especially with kids. I would have no qualms at all about bringing my kids to the movies or dinner with any of my best friends but if I were seeing a guy romantically, I'd want to make sure that we had achieved a certain level of commitment before everyone is attached to them.

But whether it was a BFF or a boyfriend I could not imagine tolerating someone joking about putting a bullet in my child's head. That was unbelievable. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by EdnasEdibles

[Barb23]

I thought it weird Debra went along with John's explanation of how he got the 10k - it was supposed to be cash payments from non-insured patients. He is not a family practice doc whose patients pay him after being seen in an office.   I'm pretty sure all his billing would go thru a billing office where patients would mail in a check or money order (not cash) or provide credit card info.  The billing office would take care of depositing the receivables properly in the company's bank account. This isn't the old days where patients pay for services directly to the doctor with cash, a pie or a cow. Like a lot of people, she probably never gave it a thought. 

I was surprised Toby told John how much info they found on him. It was probably a reflex type response. I'm sure he was shocked after John said they were married & it just came out. Hopefully Toby realized how much danger he put Debra in by telling John how much they found. 

If someone would have said they would kill one of my family members with a very detailed explanation of how they would do it like John did,  I would be telling that person permanently goodbye & showing him to the door.  It was bad enough it was a reference to Toby's mother killing but him going into such detail really gave me the creeps.  

I was thinking the girl who broke in was from John's shady past but didnt realize it could be same person that was withheld drugs because John took them.  Interesting......

Edited December 3, 2018 by Barb23

[Amy Beth]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Debra is a whackadoo. That conversation with her whackadoo mother was all kinds of strange. It doesn't surprise me she latched on to John. I'm put off by the way she treats her daughters. She has complete disregard for their feelings, almost a coldness towards them. They have reason to be suspicious of anybody that comes in to their mother's life because of Debra's awful track record.

Maybe it’s the way CB is playing Debra, but I get the sense Debra believes that her children (at least the younger daughters without their own families) WERE responsible for some of her prior breakups. She seems unwilling to entertain their doubts because she feels she got burned by pushing away men they objected to in the past.

[TattleTeeny]

57 minutes ago, EdnasEdibles said:

I think it's just so he can better watch her. That combined with the fact that he was reading her texts shows me that he wants to make sure she's not seeing other men at work or doing anything he wouldn't approve of. Just typical creepy stalking behavior. 

I think a BFF and a boyfriend are different things though - especially with kids. I would have no qualms at all about bringing my kids to the movies or dinner with any of my best friends but if I were seeing a guy romantically, I'd want to make sure that we had achieved a certain level of commitment before everyone is attached to them.

 

 

BF="boyfriend." Sorry if that was unclear. But what I mean is that if I want the person to come to an event and meet my people, I*decide when,* not an arbitrary amount of time on a calendar. 

(* And him too, haha--I don't make them do things!)

Edited December 3, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Just amazing what a worthless scumbag this guy was. He must have been putting it on Debra something fierce. Must've been swinging a third leg too.

Must be nice to be so wealthy you can afford to be utterly oblivious about your basic safety and security.

I think maybe it did alert her a little because she realized part of the backstory he gave her actually belonged to her client's husband. But she likely decided it was just an amazing coincidence.

83 thousand for the shack and 80 thou in the bag.  Business must be good.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Irritable said:

Why is Veronica always such a nasty beeyotch? There was no need to be a snotty hag when selling the Chanel purse.  I wish the shop owner would have said, “Sorry, not interested”, but then we wouldn’t have the private investigator.

 The woman started out that interaction negatively. Veronica illustrated that she knew her shit and that she knew what it was worth wasn’t going to take anything less, to me in that scene she came off as a powerful negotiator not a bitch. Now her other interactions are bitchy but she was putting her personality to good use there. 

[Irritable]

It amuses me that Vicki Gunvalson isn’t even embarrassed to admit that her desperate need for male attention and validation is why she was so vulnerable to Dirty Brooks. I would be mortified to tell the world that I was that needy.

Debra admits the same desperation for love, but unlike Vicky, she doesn’t seem to be a toxic narcissist. She’s kind, generous, loving and trusting of everyone, not just romantic partners. Vicki is selfish, arrogant, greedy and delusional but incredibly insecure. Also, I think Vicki is probably jealous that Debra managed to get so many men to marry her - Vicki has only been divorced twice and now she can’t pay a man to put a ring on it! Doesn’t matter if you marry 4 scumbags, the most important things is that getting married proves that Vicki is the good catch she keeps screeching herself to be.

[EdnasEdibles]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

BF="boyfriend." Sorry if that was unclear. But what I mean is that if I want the person to come to an event and meet my people, I*decide when,* not an arbitrary amount of time on a calendar. 

(* And him too, haha--I don't make them do things!)

Doh! Sorry. 

But yes, I think for the most part the couple can decide when and how to meet the family. I just was taken aback by the fact that the daughter was like "Please no and here is why" and the mom was like "OK, I guess?" and then did what she wanted to do anyway. Oh Debra. Don't ever change. 

[Kdawg82]

6 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Very shallow on my part but the Chanel bag?  Anyone in the know that can enlighten me on the details?

Haha I just looked this up . I believe it was a "milk carton" chanel bag she mentioned and i'm seeing it's over $5000+, almost near 6,000 on consignment.

[Starlight925]

1 hour ago, Irritable said:

It amuses me that Vicki Gunvalson isn’t even embarrassed to admit that her desperate need for male attention and validation is why she was so vulnerable to Dirty Brooks. I would be mortified to tell the world that I was that needy.

Debra admits the same desperation for love, but unlike Vicky, she doesn’t seem to be a toxic narcissist. She’s kind, generous, loving and trusting of everyone, not just romantic partners. Vicki is selfish, arrogant, greedy and delusional but incredibly insecure. Also, I think Vicki is probably jealous that Debra managed to get so many men to marry her - Vicki has only been divorced twice and now she can’t pay a man to put a ring on it! Doesn’t matter if you marry 4 scumbags, the most important things is that getting married proves that Vicki is the good catch she keeps screeching herself to be.

Ugh, I'm addicted to RHOC, so I've watched Icky Gunvalson for years.  

Yes, Icky is a malignant toxic narcissist who has a deep desire for love, to be adored, to be worshipped.  

Debra Newell is the ultimate Empath that narcissists gravitate towards.

Both women drew similar men though, largely out of their deep desire for adoration and love.  They just come from a different place, different childhoods, etc.

The type of person that they are dictates what the Dirty John/Brooks does to woo them.  Both men were looking for the same thing:  to be taken care of financially, and both had the same belief that they are entitled to their woman's finances.

With Icky, Brooks had to fill her "love tank" constantly.  Tell her she's beautiful, write her adoring love notes, call her 20 times a day, tell her how much he misses her.

With Debra, John had to fill her need to be needed.  Possibly because she didn't have the greatest relationship with her daughters, possibly her own childhood.

Each man crafts his own approach to get at the financial goodies.

[Kdawg82]

13 hours ago, Irritable said:

Amazing she was so successful financially...it really comes across on this show that she’s a major dimwit.  

It's funny because the older I get, the more people I meet, it seems you only really have to be good at one thing in life to make a decent living. In Debra's case it was interior design. I have had people in my life that surprise me as to how they could even make it to age 40 with how little common sense they have. Yet, they are wealthy by North American standards. Go figure!

[TattleTeeny]

35 minutes ago, EdnasEdibles said:

Doh! Sorry. 

But yes, I think for the most part the couple can decide when and how to meet the family. I just was taken aback by the fact that the daughter was like "Please no and here is why" and the mom was like "OK, I guess?" and then did what she wanted to do anyway. Oh Debra. Don't ever change. 

YES! That was so sucky. Like, way to dismiss your own adult daughters' emotions and reasoning! And even though she ultimately got pissy, it seemed to me that she gave more credence, initially at least, to the male relative's concerns than those of her daughters. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

For me, Christmas is a family event. It’s not something that my family invites random dating partners to join. There are plenty of other events to invite new boyfriends/girlfriends to that are way less family oriented (birthdays, regular dinners, that kind of thing) but I know my sisters and I never would have thought to invite someone we’d just started dating to Christmas. It’s not like we have all kinds of weird holiday rituals either. Christmas is family time and someone I’ve dated for two months isn’t family. Of course, I also don’t get married after knowing someone for less than two months so clearly Debra and I are not on the same page about family (or how much emergency cash to keep in the house!).

I totally understood Terra’s request for John not to be around the kids. Yes, kids are resilient but they shouldn’t have to get over losing another man in their life. I don’t think it’s much different from divorced parents who wait several months before introducing their kids to a new boyfriend/girlfriend. There’s no need to let them get attached to someone who might be gone soon. And in Terra’s defense, she didn’t know that John and Debra were already married so to her, John was just another boyfriend. 

But as we’re already seeing, one of the problems with Terra and Veronica being honest with Debra about how they don’t like John is that people in shitty relationships get very defensive and then find a way to rationalize how their shitty boyfriend/girlfriend is right and therefore the logical/sane people are paranoid/mean/don’t understand..

ETA: I just wanted to add that I realize people celebrate the holidays differently and my family only having serious/long term/significant others over on Christmas isn’t the same for other people. The main issue is everyone’s comfort level and clearly Debra’s kids were not that comfortable having John join them and be around the kids. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[TomGirl]

1 hour ago, Kdawg82 said:

 

7 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Very shallow on my part but the Chanel bag?  Anyone in the know that can enlighten me on the details?

Haha I just looked this up . I believe it was a "milk carton" chanel bag she mentioned and i'm seeing it's over $5000+, almost near 6,000 on consignment.

 

What an ugly bag (IMO).  I wouldn’t spend six bucks on it, let alone six thousand.

[teapot]

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

 The woman started out that interaction negatively. Veronica illustrated that she knew her shit and that she knew what it was worth wasn’t going to take anything less, to me in that scene she came off as a powerful negotiator not a bitch. Now her other interactions are bitchy but she was putting her personality to good use there. 

As she described herself, "I don't deal with people.  People deal with me!"  YIKES!!

 

20 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I totally understood Terra’s request for John not to be around the kids. Yes, kids are resilient but they shouldn’t have to get over losing another man in their life. I don’t think it’s much different from divorced parents who wait several months before introducing their kids to a new boyfriend/girlfriend. There’s no need to let them get attached to someone who might be gone soon. And in Terra’s defense, she didn’t know that John and Debra were already married so to her, John was just another boyfriend. 

I do too...except that her "temper tantrum" would have pissed me off, too...I would have felt like she was being incredibly manipulative in order to demand that she get her way.  Deb knows who her daughters are.  unfortunately, she is turning a blind eye to who her BF is. this is part of what makes this story so compelling, IMHO

[QuinnM]

3 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

What an ugly bag (IMO).  I wouldn’t spend six bucks on it, let alone six thousand.

I really have always wondered if people really get those prices for those bags.  I did like the face off between the sales person assuming she had some one with some ratty old bag in a Chanel box and Veronica laying down what she knew (she knew, I didn't) was a coveted article.  But if I had to sell a bag to finance an investigation that would be the one I picked.  Cuz its ugly and useless.

[2727]

It seems like John wouldn't even have needed to pretend he was a doctor to get Debra to fall for him. She married him knowing he had no money, no car, and very few possessions -- all she cared about was the flattery and adoration. She would have been fine with him being a nurse. Or a cabana boy.

I'm curious to find out where John's salary is going. Nurses/nurse anesthetists in L.A. should earn decent enough money. I suppose his drug use doesn't help, or perhaps he has legal bills.

I'm pretty sure if I had a history of arrests and protection orders against me, I wouldn't keep that paperwork at all, much less when I'm trying to hide that info from the person I'm living with. The show's focus now has been how gullible and purposefully blind Debra was, but John won't be winning any genius grants, either

[bichonblitz]

4 hours ago, Amy Beth said:

Maybe it’s the way CB is playing Debra, but I get the sense Debra believes that her children (at least the younger daughters without their own families) WERE responsible for some of her prior breakups. She seems unwilling to entertain their doubts because she feels she got burned by pushing away men they objected to in the past.

Do we know that she pushed the men away? Or did they become too controlling,  dump her or use her for her money, etc....

[sadie]

1 hour ago, 2727 said:

It seems like John wouldn't even have needed to pretend he was a doctor to get Debra to fall for him. She married him knowing he had no money, no car, and very few possessions -- all she cared about was the flattery and adoration. She would have been fine with him being a nurse. Or a cabana boy.

I was having the same exact thought. John was smart but had he been really smart I bet this clueless woman would have bought the truth in that all he had to do was give her a sob story about how his life went wrong and he was ready to make it right and he would have been on easy street. But greedy people are their own downfall. He hit the lottery with this needy desperate woman. I really dislike Debra. When she was at the yacht club with the nephew you could see her doing the math in her head about how she was going to make what he was telling her okay. She was not going to let her Smoothie King go so easily. Sh let his looks and the sex be her only concern, we would call it the “optics” of John vs. the reality of what everyone (minus her insane mother) was telling her. I’m liking Ronnie more and more, girl gets it done! 

And on a personal shallow note, how did the costumers manage to make the gorgeous Connie Britton look so awful in those horrible polyester pants? 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

It seems like John wouldn't even have needed to pretend he was a doctor to get Debra to fall for him. She married him knowing he had no money, no car, and very few possessions -- all she cared about was the flattery and adoration. She would have been fine with him being a nurse. Or a cabana boy.

I think about this too! I know it's an oversimplification that doesn't address a manipulator/predator/pathological liar's deep issues and all that, but on its face it really just seems like far less work to just be the good guy he's "capable" of being (in quotes because, again, he just is not good at the core)--or at least acting like--and reap the rewards!

Edited December 4, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[Mr. Miner]

6 hours ago, Irritable said:

Vicki has only been divorced twice and now she can’t pay a man to put a ring on it!

That’s because she’s a bloated sow cancer scammer.

Eric Bana is doing great! Two episodes in and I want John to die a horrible death.