S02.E09: Things Which Have Never Yet Been Done

[Wilson Cat]

Helena, you rock.  That insemination with, what was it, horse sperm? cow sperm? sheep? was without doubt one of the most satisfying scenes in the history of TV, eh?  In case any of you are wondering, after all my angst about being trapped in paradise without BBCAmerica, I came to my senses and realized I could simply access my Comcast account and watch the episode On Demand Online.  Voila, c'est accomplice. The previews are unnerving, but with Helena 'out there' we can trust she will rescue her sestra.  God I do love this show.  Just as I began watching it my daughter dropped in from the room next door to see if I would watch my sleeping 9 month old granddaughter, and I declined.  Oooooh, that was cold.  My priorities are whacked, but what must be must be.  Rachel, you cold bitch.  Just wait, my icy dear, until you realize that Kira is not gonna 'learn to like it here'.  You have a world of hurt awaiting you.

[Sarah-phile]

Sarah-phile, I didn't notice that anyone answered your question so I wanted to let you know that there were at least a couple of boys in the nursery.

 

Thanks, Catch 22.  I figured I must have missed it.  I wasn't really focusing on whether there were boys in the early scenes of the nursery, and in the later scenes I only saw girls and thought of Duncan's comment from a few episodes ago about their wanting little girls.  So, do we assume Henrik was the father of all those kids?  So gross.

I'm not sure if I'm more or less grossed out that Grace was artificially inseminated with Helena's babies instead of her dad letting her having sex with Mark (who I think is too old for Grace). I hate watching men control women's sexuality. Let's not give Grace any say in this!

 

When it was revealed that Mark was AWOL from the military, I thought oh crap, is he part of the Paul/Sonny conspiracy? I'm glad that his feelings for Grace made him finally realize that things were not right. It was nice to see that even though Grace and Helena still weren't getting along, they were willing to help each other escape. Loved that as soon as Mark unlocked her door, Grace went to help Helena. And I also loved that Helena told her to run.

 

I found it interesting that Mrs. S insisted on asking Kira's permission to use her bone marrow. It reminded me of My Sister's Keeper. I don't know how I feel about asking a child if she wants to volunteer her bone marrow. That's a lot to put on a little kid, and although I think it's important that Kira consent to something like that, I still don't know how feel about letting Kira make the entire decision herself. It's an interesting contrast from Grace being forcibly impregnated with the spawn of her father and Helena.

 

They've never even tried to explain why some clones got sick and others haven't yet. Jennifer was sick for a long time (I think 9-12 months?). Did they ever say how long Katja was sick? How much time has passed since Cosima started getting sick at the end of last season? Even if you take Sarah and Helena (the twins who can reproduce and are therefore different from the other clones) out of the equation, Alison, Rachel, and Tony don't appear to be sick. At the very least, they aren't coughing up blood like Jennifer, Katja, and Cosima. All of the clones were born around the same time so why would the illness manifest itself at different times for different clones? I'm guessing there is some sort of environmental factor and most likely some sort of stress could trigger it but I'm trying to figure out if it's inevitable that Alison and Rachel will get sick eventually.

 

When Rachel started laughing hysterically and then crying and then patting herself on the head, I thought she was going to go all Crazy Eyes and start hitting herself on the head more violently. She was really losing it.

I thought it was doubly awful that after telling Grace if she didn't get Helena back she would have to carry Helena's child they make her carry Helena's child anyway, even after she did bring Helena back.  Agree on Mark being too old for Grace.  I think she is supposed to be around 16, and he's more like 30.

 

Clearly, the military figures in here somehow, but I don't think Paul and Mark knew each other, based on their conversation in the bar when Helena was with Jesse.  Paul asked Mark if he was military, and Mark said "boy scouts."  

 

I also thought it was a lot to put on an 8-year-old, although it was a nice change for her to be consulted.  But then they've put heavy decisions on Kira before, like when Sarah asked her if they should leave the birdwatchers' house.

 

I think even with the same DNA they wouldn't necessarily get sick all at exactly the same time, but I do believe that Rachel and Alison and Tony are due for the same illness. It's another reason why Sarah is important (and Helena too), since she presumably wouldn't have the same defect.

 

I was totally thinking about "crazy eyes" too during that scene.

 

I was wondering that myself. I looked it up, the actress is 19 but she looks pretty young so if the intention is that Grace should be 14 or 15, I would buy it. And it ups the ick factor, that's for sure.

I was guessing she was supposed to be around 16.

I didn't get this impression at all. My take away from the Rachel madness was her realization of just how not special she is despite being raised to believe she was the most special clone of all. It shattered her lifelong sense of self and that's why as soon as Duncan told her that she was barren by design, just like the rest of the clones in the experiment, she started to lose it. Then to have Marian talk about Rachel being "bred" (if I recall correctly) while Sarah was allowed to grow up free and thus genuinely special was kind of the tipping point. Rachel is no different than Beth or Alison or Cosima, who's dying because of the choices made by others. 

 

Kira is the prize but not the motivation. By Rachel taking Kira away from Sarah in some way she's taking from Sarah the thing that makes her unique - her motherhood - and that, in her reeeally twisted mind (such a fantastic scene, btw, with Rachel breaking down as she watches the videos), will put her back on top and in total control, which is all she wants. Her motivation is control and regaining her sense of superiority. At least that's how I see it.

I think there are a lot of motivations going on beneath the icy (and now also crazy) Rachel surface.  I think some of the lines TM plays for irony maybe are sincere, like when she said motherhood is wonderful and when she told Paul that she worried.  I think in her twisted way she means them.  As for why she took Kira, I don't think it has to be one or the other.  Rachel probably has a pretty messed up idea of motherhood, given her own background, and maybe she thinks she's doing Kira a favor.  She's also using her to get to Sarah -- and I think it's part of Dyad's larger scheme.  I agree she's also taking away something that makes Sarah special.  And she gets to play mama to boot.  

 

I think the freak out scene was because she realized how much of a science experiment she really was.  Barren by design.  The clones, including Rachel, were not thought good enough to be allowed to procreate.  That's pretty insulting.  But there are so many possibilities here!  And the idea of Rachel being a total narcissist was something that was raised earlier so that could be it too.

[Mei]

Just re-watched and got a different take on the scene with Rachel in the media room. My critiquing skills are a bit rusty, so I'm not married to it, but I thought I'd put it out there...

 

Rachel was reminiscing about her childhood (i.e. when she was loved and "free"), and then I think what we saw was her steeling herself for what she had to do next for DYAD. She had just been questioned by Marian, and felt a need to reassure the higher-ups that she was completely loyal and on the job, despite all the new things she's learned about herself. Then there was the slap in the face where Marian says she "was given every advantage," but in Rachel's mind DYAD killed her parents and sterilized her, ensuring that she would never have a family of her own.

 

Clearly she values family so highly that she spends hours of her life pining for it. It gives her such joy and is yet bittersweet. It seems insane because it is so out of character with the persona that she is forced to inhabit every day. I imagine she'd feel torn completely in two. I think she might not want to do to Kira what (in essence) DYAD did to her. Slapping herself and saying "stupid, stupid" was her way of telling herself to "stop being so sentimental." She is not allowed to be human. There are objectives that she is required to accomplish. She is a "soldier" for DYAD (who literally owns her), whether she likes it or not.

 

Anyway, I ended up seeing her sympathetically to a point. Maybe spending time with Kira will "break" her, and maybe she will to go AWOL, too. LOL.

[Petunia846]

I thought in this episode they said that Mark was 19.

[Wilson Cat]

Petunia846 wrote:

 

I thought in this episode they said that Mark was 19.

 

Yes, I heard that, too, Petunia.  But if Mark is 19, I'm 31.  (I have six grandkids).

[theFel]

I don't think Rachel has babies rabies. I think the issue for her was that a clone had something she didn't. Rachel probably thought of herself as special and even superior to the other clones. After all, she's known what she is and she's a big wig in a big corporation. I think that is part of her major draw to Kira. Plus, the whole Kira being the only thing that can save her at this point from dying like the other clones. Sarah might have been willing to remove Kira's bone marrow for Cosima, but for Rachel?

 

I did love the room Rachel had for Kira. It was pink and little girlish, but still very ordered and sterile. So what Rachel would design for a little girl.

 

When they showed the fire Helena set I totally saw a news reporter going "and 17 children died in a fire last night..."

 

I didn't catch the accent change when Rachel was pretending to be Sarah, but something about watching her face when running just seemed off. 

[Sarah-phile]

Petunia846 wrote:

Yes, I heard that, too, Petunia.  But if Mark is 19, I'm 31.  (I have six grandkids).

The actor (Ari Millen) is 32 -- which is how old he looks to me.  I missed their saying he was 19, but if that's true, he's poorly cast -- just based on age, I think he's great otherwise.

[Petunia846]

Maybe they meant he was 19 when he was in the millitary and had to do things that made him go AWOL. I'm not good at judging ages. I'm 32 and I wouldn't have guessed that's how old the actor was, I'd have thought 20s.

[Mei]

Henrik to Mark: "when I think about what you've done for your country... just 19... and for what?"

It implies to me that 19 wasn't too many years ago, but technically, states only that he was 19 when in the service.

[Black Knight]

I took it that Duncan is willing to let DYAD have enough of his files to help Cosima but is not giving them the whole thing lest they try and make another batch of clones.

 

I can see that. In the moment, "not perpetuating the experiment" to me sounded an awful lot like "the clones can die, including you, Cosima," especially since he tagged it with "no offense," which almost always is tagged onto something that is offensive to the listener. But there's just something about Duncan I don't trust, which is definitely biasing my viewpoint. Granted, almost nobody on this show can be trusted completely - I only completely trust Cosima and Felix - but I think various other characters can be trusted about some things, and I don't have any kind of read on Duncan at all. Who or what does he really value? For instance, Delphine has been untrustworthy in many ways, I didn't and still don't trust her promise to love all the clones, but I do trust she wants Cosima to live (which is actually one reason I don't trust her with the other clones, because I think if it came down to them or Cosima's life she'd sell them all down the river and accept the consequence of alienating Cosima). Am I to believe Duncan values Rachel? He left her with Leekie and DYAD, and never tried to contact her all these years. (Yeah, Leekie allegedly killed his wife and he was on the run, but it's basically the opposite of how Sarah acted when Kira was taken, where she was going to get Kira back or die trying.) He told her rather casually about how her infertility is a feature rather than a bug, with zero consideration for how she might feel about that. So I don't know. Maybe it was really his wife who insisted they act like normal, loving parents and he went along with it while she was alive, but for him it's all about science and he has his own agenda...

Edited June 15, 2014 by Black Knight

[CleoCaesar]

Yeah…2 seasons in and I still watch scenes thinking “Rachel and Delphine have a different chemistry than Sarah and Delphine or Cosima and Delphine, it must be the actors…Christ never mind, it’s Tatiana Maslany in all those pairings.” It’s witchcraft, I tell you.

 

Donnie’s tough guy act cracked me up. “You’re not going to shoot me?” “Not accidentally.” Vic being Vic was great too (quickly posing for Donnie’s picture of Angela). How is this show funnier than a lot of actual comedies on TV?

 

Well damn, Rachel is a real girl. Smiles and cries and everything. Still, though, baby rabies does not give you the right to steal other people’s children.

 

YES Clone!Shakira torched Big Love Ranch. That creep had it coming to him.

 

Something I love about this show is how many rootable characters there are. Most shows I watch most of characters are  unlikeable to the point where I can enjoy the writing but never really care about what happens to the characters. On OB, even minor roles like Scott, or Donnie, Gracie, Mark, Ethan Duncan, Cal, Art, Vic, etc. do things that just make me cheer inwardly. (To say nothing about Clone Club, Felix, Mrs. S. and so on.) Such a simple thing, but important as hell, as it turns out.

Edited June 15, 2014 by CleoCaesar

[Bort]

I can see that. In the moment, "not perpetuating the experiment" to me sounded an awful lot like "the clones can die, including you, Cosima," especially since he tagged it with "no offense," which almost always is tagged onto something that is offensive to the listener.

I took the "no offense" part to be more like "I don't want them to make any more of you." Because if DYAD had the means, they so totally would.

As for Duncan, I do remain suspicious of him. He reminds me of Walter from Fringe. Seemingly harmless now but was probably a rather ruthless and cold scientist in his adult prime. I WILL NOT BE CHARMED BY HIS DODDERINGNESS.

Edited June 15, 2014 by kariyaki

[LovinLife]

Just re-watched and got a different take on the scene with Rachel in the media room. My critiquing skills are a bit rusty, so I'm not married to it, but I thought I'd put it out there...

 

Rachel was reminiscing about her childhood (i.e. when she was loved and "free"), and then I think what we saw was her steeling herself for what she had to do next for DYAD. She had just been questioned by Marian, and felt a need to reassure the higher-ups that she was completely loyal and on the job, despite all the new things she's learned about herself. Then there was the slap in the face where Marian says she "was given every advantage," but in Rachel's mind DYAD killed her parents and sterilized her, ensuring that she would never have a family of her own.

 

Clearly she values family so highly that she spends hours of her life pining for it. It gives her such joy and is yet bittersweet. It seems insane because it is so out of character with the persona that she is forced to inhabit every day. I imagine she'd feel torn completely in two. I think she might not want to do to Kira what (in essence) DYAD did to her. Slapping herself and saying "stupid, stupid" was her way of telling herself to "stop being so sentimental." She is not allowed to be human. There are objectives that she is required to accomplish. She is a "soldier" for DYAD (who literally owns her), whether she likes it or not.

 

 

 

Sounds very plausible.  To add to that I think she's just a tool for Top Side and whatever their agenda is for the clones.  And telling Marian Sarah was in hand she needed to play a big card to make that happen.  The only way Sarah would surrender herself to the Dyad is for her daughter, so she had to take Kira to get Sarah.  I wonder who the doctor is that she called after her martini and a movie slapfest ?  I like the track you are on with her.  It feels like she's got some hidden agenda to take down the dyad too but she playing it close to the vest and makes her slightly sympathetic because she has no one, only old movies of a family she once had.

 

Tatiana has said in a lot of interviews she was excited about playing Rachel in season two because they really peel her back and get to her emotions and what is under the cold exterior. I think her hatred of Sarah has a lot to do with Sarah having her own life and not allowing the Dyad to own her.  By taking Kira, she wins that battle and Sarah has to surrender herself but there may be more Diabolical plans for all the clones and Kira that she does not want to be part of now that she knows she is no different then the others she's just an experiment.  

 

The bigger question is why is Marian so fascinated with Sarah?  She doesn't seem to care about Helena but she's mentioned Sarah twice now...she seems to have a special interest in her.  Scary for Sarah and the previews for the finale don't look good for her. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

I loved the previous episode but this one was not that great, IMO. Helena and the fundies...dumb and dumber once again. Oh, great she defeated a zero-dimensional villain. Congratulations. I still can't believe Evil Boring Cliche Preacher thought she would want to live as one of his flock of morons. Kind of like inviting the wolf to live with the sheep. And I think my head still hurts from the anvils of "Helena is great with kids, she is such a cuddly serial killer, give her a chance viewers.' How about no? 

I am a little confused as to why Rachel had to pull of this complicated plot instead of say sending 20 Dyad goons or the police. Also, I wonder how she managed to get away since Mrs S would have been very suspicious if "Sarah" had taken Kira in the middle of the night. Another exit? Such a rookie mistake, Mrs S.

On the bright side, Alison and Cosima actually had a conversation! And yes, Cosima and Delphine are perfect for each other, with their endless mistakes when it comes to spying and plotting. 

[whiporee]

Unless I misunderstood Duncan, the clones have a uterine issue that prevents them from carrying. But it wouldn't prevent them from conceiving via IVF (I know because my wife and I lived that stuff through two pregnancies and three great kids). So there is nothing special about Sarah or Helena that a surrogate couldn't cure. Or a lot of hormones -- uterine problems -- especially those that deal with the lining -- are commonplace in the IVF community and relatively easy to treat. Shots. Lots of shots. If it were an egg problem, that's a bigger story. So maybe I misunderstood what he said the nature Clone Nation's infertility.

 

That's also where the tumors start. So in sterilizing them, they also ended up planting the seeds of their demise. Which wouldn't surprise me if it was the plan. 

[Ceeg]

For instance, Delphine has been untrustworthy in many ways, I didn't and still don't trust her promise to love all the clones, but I do trust she wants Cosima to live (which is actually one reason I don't trust her with the other clones, because I think if it came down to them or Cosima's life she'd sell them all down the river and accept the consequence of alienating Cosima).

I can't really fault her for that either, because I think all the clones have their own priorities as well. Sarah's are Kira, then Felix (I think), then her sisters, in that order. Alison's are her kids, and then...well, I'm not sure who she prioritizes now that she and Donnie are back together. Anyway, my point is that everyone on this show has varying loyalties to each character. Paul and Donnie both have differing loyalties from the entire Clone Club, too. But, I think this episode at least proved that Delphine places the Clone Club higher on her list than DYAD and Rachel.

 

The bigger question is why is Marian so fascinated with Sarah?  She doesn't seem to care about Helena but she's mentioned Sarah twice now...she seems to have a special interest in her.  Scary for Sarah and the previews for the finale don't look good for her. 

My assumption is that Marian finds her fascinating because she came out of nowhere and they still aren't able to pin her down. Every other clone, they've studied and observed and kept in contact with for 29ish years. But Sarah is different. She lived her whole life unmonitored, she could have a child when none of the others could, and she's a huge pain in the DYAD's ass. I could see why Marian is interested in Sarah. It'd be like finding and taming a wild bronco, after years of only dealing with show horses. Or something like that, I don't know, my metaphors are bad.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Ceeg

[rozen]

Helena doesn't strike me as the type who really cares about fashion, but it amused me to see her in the fundie uniform of a sweater and long skirt. It didn't seem to bother her but it definitely didn't seem like something she would voluntarily wear.

 

 

You can't lug around sniper rifles on motorcycles in that kind of getup, completely unpractical for Helena's line of work :P. Interesting how easily Henrick dropped the 'good cop' act and threw Gracie in the brig since her mom wasn't around to do it. Just emphasized how much of his cuddly nice guy act was fake to the core. So gassed on his own divine right that he can't even pause to consider that his daughter might not be the biggest fan of carrying her dad's child, and that of the woman she already tried to kill. Henrick obviously didn't listen to a word Tomas told him if he thought a rifle butt to the face would put Helena down. I wonder how much of telling Gracie to run was to give her a head start versus making sure she didn't have any pangs of remorse while Helena got down to business. Though Gracie did look like she was enjoying watching her father get choked out, she might have given Helena some pointers before helping torch the place.

 

I kind of imagined Helena lying on the floor after he hit her, not out of pain but of amusement like 'he thought that mosquito bite would stop me? really?'

 

I thought after so many years of marriage that Donnie would realize that, yes, anything you can do Allison can do better. Come padawan, Allison will tutor you in the ways of competency. 

 

Hopefully now the clones will realize the biggest failure mode in their plans to protect Kira are each other. They should have set up a way to 'verify' a clone is who she says she is in any of these situations. They've all pretty much figured out how to imitate the other, and they don't have near the resources that DYAD has. 

 

Eventually Mrs. S needs to stop being the solution to everything. A back pocket pediatric physician who can shut down a medical facility at a moment's notice? When that come up during her resistance fighting days?

[Mabinogia]

 

My assumption is that Marian finds her fascinating because she came out of nowhere and they still aren't able to pin her down. Every other clone, they've studied and observed and kept in contact with for 29ish years.

 

This leads to a question I've been wondering lately. How much did Dyad know about Helene? How much had they been tracking her, since she, too, was given away to protect her from them? And how did they not know Amelia was carrying/had twins? Because Leeky's reaction made it seem like he had no clue that Sarah existed but I can't remember if he know Helene existed but had just not been in the program.

 

I think Marion, and Leekey before her, would find Sarah fascinating because she was totally unmonitored and unaltered. She is like the "pure" clone. As a scientist, I would think they would want to know everything about her. She is an anomaly. Someone raised without a monitor. Someone who was raised with no influence from them at all. That's got to be fascinating. I'm sure they want to pull her open and see what a clone looks like with absolutely no DYAD interference.

 

I think Rachel has family rabies more than specifically baby rabies. She and Helene are very similar in that way. Both of them got the short end of the fake family stick. Sarah got lucky with Mrs. S because that woman will burn down the world to protect her, not because she's a clone, but because she's Sarah. Rachel is probably finally wondering if her "parents" including Leekey, cared about her for her or because she was their clone. Finding out they made her sterile probably reinforced the idea that she isn't a person to them but an experiment. Watching those happy videos must be bittersweet for her.

[Turtle]

But did Helena just burn the farm part down, not the house with all the kids right?​

It looked to me like 2 out of the 3 main buildings were on fire, so I assumed that she did not burn the building where the women & children were sleeping.  I think she gladly would have killed the abusive midwife lady, but not the others - Helena is a true nut job, but she's relatively consistent in her nuttiness, and protecting children seems to be one of her big things.  So even though we didn't see the cut scene of them escaping, I figured that Helena hadn't left them to burn to death.

 

I adored Donnie this episode.  I'm really believing his character development, with the anger at finding out he had been lied to about the monitoring, and the shock about killing Leekie, and the being impressed with how "get it done" Alison is, and the little bit of swagger in his step after he took that pic of Vic & the cop.  I mean, I don't believe it as in any of this is real or even possible in the non-tv world, but I believe it within the show. The actor has done a really good job in these last few eps, I think.  

 

I thought Helena "inseminated" that guy through his urethra, but I suppose through the rectum is a possibility as well.  Either way, ouch. 

 

Did anyone catch what Donnie said about the number of clones to Angie?

He said there were 11 of them, when he was threatening Vic.  So... Sarah, Beth, Cosima, Helena, Alison, the dead redhead, Tony (did Alison even know about him?), Rachel, Jennifer, and ... weren't there others that Helena killed?  I can't remember which 11 Alison would know about, and I'm assuming that Alison would be Donnie's source.  

 

I have no issue with Rachel wanting to have children; being a powerful and independent woman is not undermined by wanting children.  I think it's actually an interesting facet to her character - it seems that she has held on to some pretty strong sentimental feelings for her time as a little kid with her "parents", yet has worked very hard to suppress those feelings to achieve what she's been told is her destiny.  It's interesting to think about what that might do to a person.  I do, however, have an issue with Rachel being a kidnapping nutjub, and I could really do without any more of these "Kira's in jeopardy" story lines.  There is so much good story to tell without Kira being kidnapped every season.  

[hardy har]

The personal revelations were particularly horrible for Mark and Helena.  Gracie already fully understood her own role in the "plan".  She was the one clued in.  Mark only just realized that Gracie's father had robotically raped her with his own sperm.  And Helena was only just realizing her role.

 

It kind of made me love the scene where Helena threatens Katheryn Alexander all the more. Gracie has grown up in that vile compound he whole life and the look on her face when Helena defended that little girl was like a bullied child finally having someone stand up for them because they didn't know how to do it for themselves. Helena and Gracie forever, you guys!

 

 

I thought it was doubly awful that after telling Grace if she didn't get Helena back she would have to carry Helena's child they make her carry Helena's child anyway, even after she did bring Helena back.  Agree on Mark being too old for Grace.  I think she is supposed to be around 16, and he's more like 30.

 

Seriously, when it cut to Gracie being inseminated I thought, "Heinrik, you piece of shit!" and I was hoping she would kick him in his face.

 

Clearly, the military figures in here somehow, but I don't think Paul and Mark knew each other, based on their conversation in the bar when Helena was with Jesse.  Paul asked Mark if he was military, and Mark said "boy scouts." 

 

I was wondering if Mark being in the military would come up again. Paul mentioned something about being impressed with Mark's tailing ability, right? I wonder if DYAD and the Prolethians keeps track of AWOL soldiers or something.

 

I don't think Rachel has babies rabies. I think the issue for her was that a clone had something she didn't. Rachel probably thought of herself as special and even superior to the other clones. After all, she's known what she is and she's a big wig in a big corporation. I think that is part of her major draw to Kira. Plus, the whole Kira being the only thing that can save her at this point from dying like the other clones. Sarah might have been willing to remove Kira's bone marrow for Cosima, but for Rachel?

 

Yeah, that's what I think. I've never seen Rachel's Spiral of Crazy and her being baby crazy. She is someone who, in her own way, has craved a real family (or at least a genuine human connection) for quite some time. Why else would she repeatedly watch those home movies of her as a happy little girl? Couple that with the fact that she now knows she's really not special, she's was just another branch of the initial cloning experiment and Leekie, the man she thought took her in after her parents death was the one responsible for it in the first place. She's not special, she's not unique, she's another lab rat who was tricked just like the others. While I do think she does genuinely want a child to try and regain that familial connection she lost so long ago, I definitely don't see her kidnapping Kira is as simple as the Powerful Woman Just Want A Baby trope. Taking Kira is a way to try and regain some semblance of control and power because it's really the only comfort she has right now.

 

All that being said......I still want her ass to die. :)

 

This leads to a question I've been wondering lately. How much did Dyad know about Helene? How much had they been tracking her, since she, too, was given away to protect her from them? And how did they not know Amelia was carrying/had twins? Because Leeky's reaction made it seem like he had no clue that Sarah existed but I can't remember if he know Helene existed but had just not been in the program.

videos must be bittersweet for her.

 

Leekie definitely knew about Helena. When Delphine read off the names he recognized it and Rachel referred to Helena as his "White Whale" earlier this season, so he's been looking for her for a while.

 

ETA: Oh, man. I hope we get a scene in the finale where Kira calls whatever number Cal had her memorize for emergencies. Kira! Find a phone!

 

ETA 2: I just occurred to me that Mrs Heinrik (Bonnie?) wasn't at the ranch. I have no doubt that woman will come after Helena.

Edited June 16, 2014 by hardy har

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Jeff's post on the episode!

[lulee]

ETA 2: I just occurred to me that Mrs Heinrik (Bonnie?) wasn't at the ranch. I have no doubt that woman will come after Helena.

She'd gone "out West to look for more brood mares" according to Gracie. So Helena won't have to worry about her soon/ at all

[wellread]

After Helena has been inseminated at the evil farm, the body double/midwife takes her down a path to a different building.  It turns out to be the nursery and preschool.  I think this is the setup to later allow time and space for the children to escape the fire that starts in the other buildings. After we hope that they have left, we see Helena looking back at what sure looks like every building burning.

[bluebonnet]

With the military connection (monitors from the military, Mark from the military, military men in the project leda picture) and with Kira having her healing powers and maybe psychic thing and being called the prize, was the original goal to make a class of super soldiers?  I'm sort of wondering if Rachel is aware of this and maybe her motive for taking Kira (apart from the insanity) is for something else.  There could be a component of trying to protect Kira or maybe a determination to tear it all down from the inside.  Of course, that's just my desire to see the clones eventually all one big dysfunctional family because I want to see them all in one scene together.  But I am wondering about other little tidbits we got, like the Island of Dr. Moreau book.  

[LittleIggy]

Helena was awesome! Baby Daddy got to ride in the stirrups!

I liked when Vic flashed the peace (what I call it) when Donnie took that pic.

I thought bone marrow donation was less painful than it used to be.

[Wilowy]

Helena - MY HERO! You wanna make me a brood mare? Howz about a probe up the ass, mofo?

 

Rachel as Sarah - omg gurl your HAIR was way too great! Dead giveaway, as Sarah combs hers with a fishbone, if that.

 

Vic the Dick... yeah, whatevs you sneaky shit. *yawn*. 

 

Donnie and Alison! TEAM MURDEROSI! Go Ali with the jackhammer! It's ya birthday!

 

I miss Leekie.

 

Kira in danger AGAIN? Sorry, but they have way too much going on with the grownups to keep putting this one in jeopardy. I'm thinking since they are making Helena the patron saint of kids, that she will be the one to bring Kira back to Sarah. Oh, and can she kill Rachel in the process? Thanks.  

[lulee]

Sarah was blaming Felix. The boy was sleeping! And even though he was jolted awake, he caught on almost immediately! I'm glad Sarah gets her having left Kira for 8 years with others thrown back in her face. STFU, Sarah.

wasn't it 10 mos, not 8 years??

[Captanne]

For the record --- I'm not implying that "baby rabies" makes a woman weak or strong or earns any judgement whatsoever.  I haven't leveled any judgment because, well, judging people or characters just isn't my scene.

 

I am saying it's a lazy trope.

 

This show is doing it in an interesting way (yes, Rachel was already nuts) and the endgame still remains to be seen.  

Edited June 16, 2014 by Captanne

[ottoDbusdriver]

When Donnie took Angie and Vic's picture with his cameraphone, I like how Vic still maintains his composure enough to flash a sign like he was posing for the photo.

[Kaboom 2.0]

Whew, I'm still recovering from watching this ep. The second Rachel put on that hoodie I felt my heart drop. Now I understand why TM's interviews had her gushing about portraying Rachel this season, girl has serious problems and watching TM portray this controlled person who is slowly unraveling has been fascinating.

Loved: the Clone Club skype (with Donnie and Mrs. S watching their respective clones); the continuing adventures and re-bonding of Alison and Donnie (the way they Purell'd their hands while continuing to talk was hilarious); Scott's glee over working on an ancient computer that accepted Duncan's floppy disk and his continued support of and friendship with Cosima; Donnie growing a pair, manhandling Vic, learning from his past mistakes, confronting Angie; Vic's gang sign when Donnie takes their pic; Helena, EVERYTHING Helena in this ep; Delphine screwing up re: the Benjamin email only because I think this will force her to see just how evil DYAD/Rachel really is.

 

My boyfriend squirmed when Helena inserted that thing into Henrik. I shrugged and told him that at least she used lube. She didn't HAVE to but she did.

 

Hated: Mrs. S's pigtails. Paul and Art's absence. Rachel kidnapping Kira only because I truly hate child-in-peril scenarios.

 

My fave quote: "have a shitty day" from Donnie. I'm so borrowing that.

[LittleIggy]

How did Rachel know exactly what to wear to abduct Kyra? What if on an off chance Sarah had been wearing red instead of black? And why was the security so lax? Any other time, Mrs. S would have been in front of the door with her shotgun and Delphine would have been brought to the clinic blindfolded.

[Wilowy]

Helena is just fantastic.  Inseminating the leader, torching the place...she is the absolute best.  Loved the moment between her and the little girl, and even better when she threatened the girl's mother.  Helena is crazy, but she takes care of her own.

 

SO on board the Helena train - LOVE HER! Was cackling with glee when she inseminated Daddy Creepo and then whooped with joy when the next shot was her looking back at the flames! The group's psychotic ID she may be, but I fucking can't get enough of her!! 

 

Oh and yeah, Rachel's dead meat now. Helena should've snipered her when she had the chance, and I can't see her letting her get away with snatching Kira.

[romantic idiot]

I am saying it's a lazy trope.

I would think the powerful woman being an ice queen is a bigger cliche, so really, this isn't that remarkable.

[Zuleikha]

This is how not with it I am. I had read the start of this thread before seeing the episode, so I knew there was an important Rachel/Delphine/Sarah impersonation bit. I noticed when Rachel put on the Sarah hoodie to practice impersonating Sarah. I noticed the accent slip. And yet, I STILL did not realize it was Rachel impersonating Sarah in that scene until she drugged Felix. I was all proud of Sarah for keeping her cool and not immediately accusing Benjamin (which of course, real Sarah did. *sigh*).

 

As for the rest of it, I feel like the show's world building is unraveling, and either the finale or S3 needs some serious exposition fairy-ing to bring things back together. Helena's personal triumph over Nu-Proletheans was okay, although in many ways felt more like Gracie's moment and triumph. Helena didn't really know or care about Nu-Proletheans--it was just an arc to get her babies and something to do. How Nu-Proletheans tie into old Proletheans, Maggie Chen, Cold River, and Tomas and the Old Proletheans still seems very murky--way murky for something that was the original instigating factor behind the whole chain of events leading to self-aware clones. Shouldn't Old Proletheans still be trying to kill the clones and stop Dyad? Shouldn't Old Proletheans also be trying to stop Nu-Proletheans? 

 

Meanwhile, what is Dyad actually trying to do? All we know is that they're a profit-oriented enterprise that is nevertheless comfortable with direct murder. We don't really know what they've been doing for the past couple of decades since they lost their ability to make more clones; why they're monitoring the clones; why they're doing such a crappy job monitoring the clones (seriously--they apparently had no idea that Beth had met with Katja, Allison, and Cosima, or contacted Tony nor were they doing anything to protect the clones from Helena/Proletheans), or really much of anything else. I vaguely remember the Neolutionists were about self-directed evolution, which is why Olivier had the tail, but that aspect of things seems to have been dropped.

 

Marion's fascination with Sarah seems plot contrivance or a way to mess with Rachel. The whole unmonitored aspect of Sarah is interesting, I guess, but Sarah's been helped by Mrs. S and Helena quite a bit. Mrs. S is apparently some kind of anti-Dyad revolutionary and Helena was trained by the Proletheans to be a lethal weapon, so it's not like Sarah didn't have significant allies. Daniel would have had her for Rachel if not for Helena. 

 

I'm not happy that we've gone almost the entire season without Allison's contract coming up. That was a huge issue for last season's finale, and it's ended up meaning less than nothing. Cosima set Sarah against Rachel by warning her about the genetic trademarking but then not only did Allison still sign, but Cosima ended up working for Dyad herself. And we learned that the trademarking sequence didn't directly signify anything about Dyad's intentions towards the clones. The plotting that felt so tight in S1 is now giving me unfortunate Lost/Battlestar Galactica vibes... like it's all about moving chess pieces around for certain scenes to happen without any concern for overall coherence, character development, or logic.

[Captanne]

Yeah, romanticqueen, but they've got the "powerful woman as ice queen" covered with Ensign Ro.  LOL

 

ETA:  This is hands-down my favourite show on television right now -- along with Banshee.  So, for some reason I've gotten off on some trope-tangent.  Aside from that, this show is flawless.   (My fave is and always has been, Helena.  Ashley, oops, Allison is growing on me, "Haven't you seen Dexter?!"  LOL  I never watched Dexter but that line gave me a good laugh.)

Edited June 16, 2014 by Captanne

[Frisco]

Donnie was such a bad @ss, loved it.  Helena injecting that nut and then burning the place down was awesome.  Poor Kira, kidnapped by that nutcase Rachel.  I cannot believe next week is the season finale.  Season 3 please. 

[hardy har]

Oh and yeah, Rachel's dead meat now. Helena should've snipered her when she had the chance, and I can't see her letting her get away with snatching Kira.

 

There is a part of me that wants a scene where Sarah tells Helena all the shit Rachel has been up to only to have Helena basically say, "You know if you just let me kill her before none of this would have happened, right?" Then, you know, they gather the troops and kill the hell out of Rachel and take Helena to the biggest all-you-can-eat buffet ever as a thank you.

 

I'm not happy that we've gone almost the entire season without Allison's contract coming up. That was a huge issue for last season's finale, and it's ended up meaning less than nothing. Cosima set Sarah against Rachel by warning her about the genetic trademarking but then not only did Allison still sign, but Cosima ended up working for Dyad herself. And we learned that the trademarking sequence didn't directly signify anything about Dyad's intentions towards the clones. The plotting that felt so tight in S1 is now giving me unfortunate Lost/Battlestar Galactica vibes... like it's all about moving chess pieces around for certain scenes to happen without any concern for overall coherence, character development, or logic.

 

I'm not too worried. The Patent issue hasn't come up since S2 Ep 1 either, but I'm wondering if that is going to play into a military/government aspect of the show later on. Manson and Fawcett have been trying to get this made for like 10 years and said they basically have 3 seasons in mind, so I don't think they're just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks. Plus, for me at least, this show has sort of constant set up stuff that I think they're forgotten about only to have of come together later on.

Edited June 16, 2014 by hardy har

[sjohnson]

Duncan is apparently cured of the senility that left him living in squalor for some years. Since the only that's happened is meeting Sarah, I guess it's official: Sarah Manning will literally make you a better person. That's getting a little too special for me to relate to. 

 

Why didn't Sarah call Mrs. S? Regardless of whether Benjamin was a traitor, if Dyad had him pegged as a POI, that meant they had someone not expecting to be followed back to Kira. Moving Kira would have been tough but not impossible. 

[Babalu]

Duncan is apparently cured of the senility that left him living in squalor for some years. Since the only that's happened is meeting Sarah, I guess it's official: Sarah Manning will literally make you a better person. That's getting a little too special for me to relate to.

I'd assumed that Duncan was faking his senility (including the squalor/hoarding) as a way to protect himself and his knowledge from DYAD. Once there was a good reason to do so (helping the clones, I guess)' he dropped the act.

[DioxinBlues]

I'd assumed that Duncan was faking his senility (including the squalor/hoarding) as a way to protect himself and his knowledge from DYAD. Once there was a good reason to do so (helping the clones, I guess)' he dropped the act.

I'd always assumed Ethan Duncan was the epitome of the absent-minded professor: brilliant by easily distracted and quite often lost in the complicated workings of his own mind to the exclusion of all else, particularly that which he considers mundane. He feels like the sort of person who can keep complicated codes in his memory but has no clue how to operate a television remote or remembers to take out the garbage on a regular basis, but when he needs to be on point regarding something he knows well, there's no one better to have by your side. I fear he's doomed.

[beedub]

The plotting that felt so tight in S1 is now giving me unfortunate Lost/Battlestar Galactica vibes... like it's all about moving chess pieces around for certain scenes to happen without any concern for overall coherence, character development, or logic.

 

Zuleikha, I think what may be bothering you, and you do have some legitimate concerns, has to do with what we can now reasonably conclude has been a season-long arc that does two things: opens up the story/world beyond the tight focus of Sarah and her immediate connections; and provides a context for the motivations and actions of Rachel.

 

Thus we have, on the one hand, the introduction of Cal, Big Daddy Henrik and his Farm of Horrors, the Road Trip, the Birdwatcher faction, Alison's rehab stint, Tony!, etc., and on the other, the Dyad palace intrigues, Paul's apparent enslavement to Rachel, the discovery and enlistment of Ethan Duncan with its attendant revelations about Rachel's past, and so on. If indeed this is all part of a three-season conception of the story, then this feels like the middle act of the piece. Much has been set up that promises to bear fruit in the season(s) to come, not to mention next week's finale, where much can and probably will happen. It's hard to be patient when we're almost at the end of the season, with so many loose threads and a long wait before us in the interim, but it would only be fair to the creators to show them a little confidence, cut them some slack, and see what they have in store for us.

 

If it seemed that there was plenty to work with in Season One and you feel there was no need to introduce all these new elements, I'd rush to agree with you that there was an abundance of seed planted and they could have given that space to play out with more or less the core group of characters and locations, and that likely would have been satisfying. But it might also have started to feel a little claustrophobic and self-repetitive, so I don't personally have a problem with the direction things have taken. Bear in mind that from the get-go, the implications of the story were international in scope (European clones hinted at, Mrs. S. relocating from England), so it's not exactly a left turn to pursue some of these possibilites.

 

The story of Rachel is intimately connected with that of Dyad and its grip on the lives of most of the sestras, including herself. For me, it was very smart of OB to introduce Rachel. Dyad was a Big Bad corporate presence in Season One, with murky motivations and sinister involvement in our characters' lives. But putting Rachel at the centre of Dyad made it personal, gave the corporate menace a family connection, and helped explain the (somewhat irrational) nature of the threat to Sarah, Kira and the Cloniverse. I don't think you could properly tell this story without Rachel being a large part of it.

 

Added into the mix, there may be some concessions on the part of the showrunners to the rapid rise of Tatiana's star, where they've perhaps modified some of their original story plans to let her stretch out a bit and display her formidable abilities, giving her growing base of admirers more of what they want. No complaints from me on that front, but we can hope that they don't lose sight of the big picture while doing so. I'll admit to sharing some of your concerns, and wondering at the sense of certain developments, but I'm confident that the captains of the ship have the smarts to deliver the goods, all in good time.

[Zuleikha]

Plus, for me at least, this show has sort of constant set up stuff that I think they're forgotten about only to have of come together later on.

 

I felt that way in S1. I remember my jaw dropping when the security camera footage came back to let Art put the Beth/Sarah impersonation pieces together. But even if the contract does come back later on, it will be too late for me. IMHO, there's no excuse for not addressing the contract as soon as Allison found out about Donny. The whole reason she signed the contract was so that her life would be unmonitored. It's just bad writing and bad characterization, especially since she referenced the contract when Daniel accidentally abducted her in the premiere and again when she woke up in rehab. Moreover, it was supposed to be significant that Sarah rejected it, which means by extension it has to be significant that Allison and Cosima signed it. Yet despite Rachel's not-so-secret war with Sarah, Rachel hasn't appeared to have thought about Allison much less taken advantage of whatever Allison's contract obligates her. Even if the show reveals a great explanation for all of this, it's still something that's distracted and frustrated me at various points over the course of the season. (I also think it was a huge missed opportunity to make Allison more connected to the Dyad events--right now, she could basically be off the show and we wouldn't lose anything except black comedy relief time, which frankly I'd rather get from Helena. I also think Allison should have been the sick clone instead of Cosima since Cosima's science skills would keep her connected)

 

I'd assumed that Duncan was faking his senility (including the squalor/hoarding) as a way to protect himself and his knowledge from DYAD.

I don't think Duncan was faking his senility. He's successfully convinced Dyad that he was dead, so there was no audience for a senility ploy. I think he really is mentally troubled, but that he still remembers his science and has more lucidity than not. Outside of his hoarding, he wasn't really that out of it back in his home. He still knew who he was, who Rachel was, who Dyad was, about the Clone project, when he was, etc. The box that he thought was so important actually was so important. Since he's been in a controlled living environment, the show hasn't had a lot of opportunity to show his compulsive aspects.

 

On a different subject, was Sarah the one who insisted on reuniting Rachel and Duncan? If so, isn't she the one most directly responsible for Rachel knowing about Benjamin? 

[CatMack]

I agree with Zuleikha that there have been pacing issues this season.  I think it's entirely possible that many of the storylines I'm having an issue with will come together and pay off at some point, but that doesn't change the fact that I think the pacing is off.

 

Take Paul, for instance.  I know he's not a big favorite for a lot of people, but the show has set him up to be this mysterious player and now seems to be positioning him for some important roll, what with Sammy's ghost message.  And in fact

the showrunners have point blank said in an interview with E!Online that "Paul is important"

.  But he's been used so poorly this season.  Dylan Bruce has second billing, but if he shows up in the finale (and I assume he will, but then I assumed he'd be in this one too, so who knows) he will have only been in half the episodes this season, and he barely had anything to do for half that time.  And yeah, he's not the main character, so OK...except as stated before, they've set up this mystery surrounding him, and the pacing for that has been blown to hell IMO.  Like, he was completely absent from the last episode but his absence was important, and it culminated in this big moment, the whole point of Tony's story, that Paul is seemingly more important than previously thought.  And then in this episode...nothing.  Not so much as a mention.  And it goes right along with what Zuleikha said about Alison and the contracts.  It's OK to set things up and not pay them off for awhile, but there's a difference between setting them up and leaving them on a slow burn, and setting them up and then never mentioning them again.  When you have this many conflicting and intersecting mysteries in one series, it's a hard juggling act, and I by no means think the show is awful now.  But you have to build momentum, and that's been really uneven this season (Helena disappearing for two episodes before finally returning to and paying off the farm storyline this episode is another example).  There have just been too many things that get dropped suddenly for me to ignore it.  Not all of those things are a huge deal, and not all of them have been dropped for as long as others (if Paul does come back next ep than one ep without addressing his mystery isn't the same as a whole season of not dealing with the contract things).  But taken as a whole, it's frustrating.

 

All that said, I do still really love this show.  I think it's doing some amazing things, and I think some of it's difficulties stem from it trying to do too many things at once, which is IMO better than coasting and not doing enough (if you're going to fail, fail big).  As sophomore slumps go, it's not nearly as bad as some other shows I could name.  It's just frustrating because I know these writers are capable of writing a tight, coherent, well paced season, and I wish season 2 was just a little bit better executed. 

Edited June 16, 2014 by CatMack

[Athena]

While this season is not as tightly paced as S1, I actually think it's still excellent. In this episode alone, Helena takes out a Big Bad and is on the way to reuniting with Sarah. Rachel shows a lot of herself and makes a bold move.

 

I found the Rachel video scenes riveting. To me, the kidnapping is about a lot of things, at the core is Rachel's desire for family. I do believe she wanted to be a mother because she lost her mother and father. I also think she did it to gain control and have one over Sarah. Rachel is jealous of Sarah; Sarah is free. She was unmonitored, had a brother, a mother figure, and a daughter. Sarah also seems more clever or just as clever as Rachel.

 

The moment where Rachel tells Kira "You'll get use to like it like I did," was incredibly sad. She can't face the fact that her own upbringing in DYAD is effed up. She probably thinks Kira will be luckier since she has Rachel. I thought TM did a great job with Rachel in all her scenes. Chilling and rather sad.

[Sarah-phile]

Hated: Mrs. S's pigtails. Paul and Art's absence. Rachel kidnapping Kira only because I truly hate child-in-peril scenarios.

 

My fave quote: "have a shitty day" from Donnie. I'm so borrowing that.

I know I may be in the minority here, but I loved her pigtails!  :)  I thought they were cute, maybe especially because she is close to 50 and a bit past pigtail age.

 

That quote was awesome.  it reminded me of Angie's nasty remark to Felix after he'd been arrested in Season 1 -- "Public defender, is it?  I'll make sure it's a shitty one." or something like that.

 

I'd always assumed Ethan Duncan was the epitome of the absent-minded professor: brilliant by easily distracted and quite often lost in the complicated workings of his own mind to the exclusion of all else, particularly that which he considers mundane. He feels like the sort of person who can keep complicated codes in his memory but has no clue how to operate a television remote or remembers to take out the garbage on a regular basis, but when he needs to be on point regarding something he knows well, there's no one better to have by your side. I fear he's doomed.

I agree completely.  I also think despite some appearances to the contrary he's going to turn out to be one of the good guys.

 

I don't think OB is perfect, but it has so many great things going for it and is far superior to anything else I've seen lately (with the possible exception of Breaking Bad, which is/was awesome).  I feel like there is an end game here and a plan to link up the story lines, if not perfectly coherently, at least in a way that is internally consistent.  I was reminded of Once Upon a Time, which I like, but which has absolutely no logic to it.  They make up rules all the time to further the plot.  I don't feel like they do that here, and I really appreciate that dedication to the underlying world they've created.  Also compare OB to Homeland, which had a fabulous first season and then suffered a severe sophomore slump, IMO, and never recovered.

[shapeshifter]

The title of this episode, "Things Which Have Never Yet Been Done," keeps bringing me back to the image of Henrik in stirrups right before...you know.

Here it is in its original context, which Google is having a hard time locating after this episode: http://waysofknowing.info/textsite/Bacon_idols.html

(See VI)

[MDKNIGHT]

I found one and only one redeeming feature in Cult Daddy.  He grasped the REAL point of Frankenstein (the novel) which the movie totally got wrong, and few people pick up on.  At least that is what I got from cult baby story time.  He seemed to be talking about the Monster tracking his creator to the frozen north because it hadn't known being loved, not because it was born evil.  Then he gave it an age appropriate happy ending since he wasn't going to tell little little kids the Monster killed his creator. 

 

Most people take the movie's message "there are things that man was NOT meant to mess with" and think that the story inherently is about science going too far.  The point of the novel is that what Dr Frankenstein did that was wrong wasn't creating the Monster, since Mary Shelley's generation was very PRO Science and experimenting to find the secrets of nature etc.  His big sin from Shelly's POV is ABANDONING the creature.  The Monster was kind of a nice guy but is rejected by his creator because he isn't exactly what Dr Frankenstein wanted and people start coming after him and THEN he goes off the rails.  All of which kind of made the Monster kind of sympathetic AND reminded me of Helena. 

 

I mean I'm a little wigged out that she blinded a nun for putting her in a closet as I think that permanent blindness for an act the nun should have just  gone to jail for is exteme, BUT I can see where Helena's coming from and didn't have a big problem with what she did to Cult Daddy.  I think HE should have gone to jail but can see how (a) somebody like Helena wouldn't be able to think like me and (b) there wouldn't have been evidence and credible witnesses against him since he ran a cult so there was NO WAY in hell that guy was going away for what he did, so feral child Helena doing him in ultimately is OK. 

 

Also like the Monster I can't imagine that Helena would be ANYWHERE as messed up as she is if she'd had even adequate parenting, much less you know GOOD parenting.  That all being said while I sympathize with her the only way Helena could be a decent mom would be through the magic of television scripts because no way is the character as portrayed good mom material.  She's good with- you don't beat children-,   but no way does she know when to or how to discipline children.  The kid she's carrying would pretty much be ferral, left to her own devices, and can you imagine what she'd feed him once he/she got too old for breast milk? 

 

OTOH I don't want her to die and I certainly don't want Cosima to die.   I have no idea how the writers will wrap things up but a wierd part of me wants Mrs S to take over taking care of Helena since she does a poor job herself and be the voice of reason in raising Helena's child.  Ironically parelleling the job she did for Sarah.

 

Apropos of nothing I want a music video with all the clones singing Wannabe by the Spicegirls, complete with Helena's off key Ukrainian accented contributions  and Alison doing the choreography.  

 

Edited to make it easier to read.  I take suggestions well.

Edited June 19, 2014 by MDKNIGHT

[Wilowy]

Apropos of nothing I want a music video with all the clones singing Wannabe by the Spicegirls, complete with Helena's off key Ukrainian accented contirbutions  and Alison doing the choreography.  

 

 

Send this to John and Graeme NOW.

 

Also your "Frankenstein" observation reminded me that there was something I liked about Creepy Daddy... he wasn't blinded to science by his faith. He was almost brilliant, and I liked his delivery and calm demeanor. 

 

Did it mask an insane facade? Yep. But like the UnSubs in my favorite crime show, there are shades. While I reveled in what Helena did to him, I can't help but think he was wasted in a way. By painting him as just a black hat, did we lose a valuable character? A great villain mastermind?

[OriginalCyn]

This is a small bit of a nitpick, strictly my own opinion, and in no way is putting down any of the contributors to the episode discussions as the discussions here are fantastic.  That being said.... 

 

This is a show that inspires lots of comments, many of which are chock full of in-depth analysis, discussions about the various characters, what has happened in each episode and what all of it means it means going forward.  I love reading all of them and while they are definitely interesting, contain valid points, and definitely make one think, many of them are extremely long and do not have any breaks in them, which makes reading them challenging at times.

 

This is merely a suggestion, but if they could be split into paragraphs, it would make reading them a lot easier both to follow and to digest (it's also easier if someone wants to quote a portion of a lengthy post).

 

Again, not trying to upset or offend anyone; just offering up an idea for a possible improvement. 

Edited June 17, 2014 by OriginalCyn

[shapeshifter]

if they [posts] could be split into paragraphs, it would make reading them a lot easier both to follow and to digest.

Yes. And/or, if you want to hide super secret instructions to your sestra clones that no one will read, just put them in the middle of a really long paragraph. ;-)

Like @Sarah-phile above, I too still have faith in this show to pull all the threads together into a coherent whole. Tony seemed like a bit of a distraction, but look at how well they've re-integrated Vick the Dick.