Carole Radziwill: She's a Real Princess!

[Yours Truly]

22 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

IIRC, it was only Ramona who was a "turd" to her in St. Barts. Carole and Heather stuck up for her, hung out with her, and were generally good friends to her --- despite her bitchy, psychotic side (aka: the real Aviva) starting to peek through (aka: banners and parades).

Carole only turned on Aviva in response to the nasty things that Aviva said. Aviva was simply trying to drum up interest in her stupid book and she knew that getting a little drama going with Carole would very likely do that (plus: extra screen time). I think she underestimated Carole's response. Just like with Luanne and the "pedophile" nonsense.

Yeah because that Carole only participates in mud slinging fights she never ever starts them...

[Petunia13]

I don't know if Aviva does or doesn't. But I do think Carole says that stuff about the other women to be insulting. Not out of concern or sincerity. 

And that is extremely dangerous. People wonder why there's so much suicide and violent senseless crime happening. We are our brother's keeper. The problem is flourishing due to willful ignorance and insensitivity to those with mental issues. And the opinion people who have those issues are horrible or just because someone is an asshole or rude or weird they can be labeled with it. 

people who are truly ill don't choose that and shouldn't be shunned or stigmatized. It's sad that in 2016 this is happening and ok. Maybe one day it won't be the case. Like I said her disses on the housewives calling them bipolar or personality disordered simply because they don't get along and quipping about it reminds me of when I was 11 and ignorant kids called anyone uncool or not part of the clique "gay" or "retarded". That was a long time ago and children. This is -as I was reminded and chided - for a 52 yr old educated woman and accomplished writer.  She should know better and be more creative in her thoughts and burns than some sixth grader. Jmho 

[lunastartron]

1 hour ago, Duke2801 said:

IIRC, it was only Ramona who was a "turd" to her in St. Barts. Carole and Heather stuck up for her, hung out with her, and were generally good friends to her --- despite her bitchy, psychotic side (aka: the real Aviva) starting to peek through (aka: banners and parades).

Carole only turned on Aviva in response to the nasty things that Aviva said. Aviva was simply trying to drum up interest in her stupid book and she knew that getting a little drama going with Carole would very likely do that (plus: extra screen time). I think she underestimated Carole's response. Just like with Luanne and the "pedophile" nonsense.

Carole was already starting to excise Aviva from the group at the party (don't recall the pretext; it was at some sort of vaguely industrial, cheap-looking bar, introduced Kristen, and included a Latino-featured gigolo on Sonja's arm) filmed for the season six premiere by making nebulously pejorative commentary to Heather like, "omg, can you believe Aviva's here?"

At the luncheon that sparked the all-out war between the two, Aviva was her characteristically syrupy sweet self to Carole: complimenting Carole's glasses, suggesting she inquire if any of the hot moving men working on her apartment were single, etc.

Carole belabored the point that Aviva had employed a ghostwriter extendedly before Aviva ever even asked the question in kind let alone attacked Carole. There was an initial, "did you end up hiring the writer?" Then a follow-up like, "oh, so you didn't use a ghostwriter?" And at least one more, "Wait, wait - so there's no ghostwriter?"

Aviva replied calmly to each query. A gaslight it was not. Only after Carole persisted with the third overture did Aviva even start invoking any sort of reference points vis-à-vis *her own* background for support by bringing up her Chicken Soup essay.

At which point Carole literally and baldly rolled her eyes and drawled, "Yeah, that was a letter to your mother not a book."

Then and only then did Aviva start applying pressure to the abstract thesis she was trying to advance, which was that everyone, regardless of their amount of experience, starts with one first book.

And I keep seeing the banner incident introduced in relation to BookGate as if it occurred in a vacuum. While I do agree it made her look monstrously spoiled, Aviva flew off the handle in St. Barth's because LuAnn played runtelldat and tripped over herself to inform the Dreschers that Ramona and Sonja had determined among themselves that they would ask Reid to leave the premises. Aviva's point was, "hey, you know traveling here for your nominal benefit was a challenge for me; because of our friendship, I'd have expected congratulations and support from you rather than you telling my husband to get the fuck out of here."

Carole and Heather raised zero objections until over a year later when it was situationally convenient to suddenly clutch their pearls over that fight in order to disparage her to Kristen and remind Ro and So of the acrimony that had, by that point, been resolved.

[lunastartron]

1 hour ago, Petunia13 said:

I don't know if Aviva does or doesn't. But I do think Carole says that stuff about the other women to be insulting. Not out of concern or sincerity. 

And that is extremely dangerous. People wonder why there's so much suicide and violent senseless crime happening. We are our brother's keeper. The problem is flourishing due to willful ignorance and insensitivity to those with mental issues. And the opinion people who have those issues are horrible or just because someone is an asshole or rude or weird they can be labeled with it. 

people who are truly ill don't choose that and shouldn't be shunned or stigmatized. It's sad that in 2016 this is happening and ok. Maybe one day it won't be the case. Like I said her disses on the housewives calling them bipolar or personality disordered simply because they don't get along and quipping about it reminds me of when I was 11 and ignorant kids called anyone uncool or not part of the clique "gay" or "retarded". That was a long time ago and children. This is -as I was reminded and chided - for a 52 yr old educated woman and accomplished writer.  She should know better and be more creative in her thoughts and burns than some sixth grader. Jmho 

Apart from the clinical terminology, I'm surprised that Carole and Bethenny are still trying to humiliate LuAnn by highlighting biological characteristics over which she has no control. Because comedy that explicitly relies on sexism and flirts with transphobia is so funny.

If either were Alexis Bellino, we'd be treated to a whole segment of the reunion devoted to their upbraiding.

[lunastartron]

Also, because this was debated in the current episode thread:

Carole's vapors!esque swooning over the criteria one must to qualify as a legitimate author had zero to do with Aviva's salvos. The commentary that Carole provided in her talking head was, unlike the lunch, a single continuous take on how Aviva's single, offhand remark about herself ("it was kind of like e-mailing") constituted this grave "insult" to the "craft" that 'real' writers spend "years honing."

Aviva's comment was about herself and herself alone. (But then, I guess she also said something to the effect of, "I really had a lot of fun." I mean, the cheek! Where does she get off?)

So, if it's "not like writing a long e-mail," is it instead like blowing off multiple deadlines for which you signed a contract and received a six-figure advance until your publisher cuts the cord because you've got better things to do like projectile vomit psychotropic-laced gummy bears at raves?

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

I don't know if Aviva does or doesn't. But I do think Carole says that stuff about the other women to be insulting. Not out of concern or sincerity. 

And that is extremely dangerous. People wonder why there's so much suicide and violent senseless crime happening. We are our brother's keeper. The problem is flourishing due to willful ignorance and insensitivity to those with mental issues. And the opinion people who have those issues are horrible or just because someone is an asshole or rude or weird they can be labeled with it. 

people who are truly ill don't choose that and shouldn't be shunned or stigmatized. It's sad that in 2016 this is happening and ok. Maybe one day it won't be the case. Like I said her disses on the housewives calling them bipolar or personality disordered simply because they don't get along and quipping about it reminds me of when I was 11 and ignorant kids called anyone uncool or not part of the clique "gay" or "retarded". That was a long time ago and children. This is -as I was reminded and chided - for a 52 yr old educated woman and accomplished writer.  She should know better and be more creative in her thoughts and burns than some sixth grader. Jmho 

 

Aviva had no problem calling someone white trash or an alcoholic. She had no problem looking at Carole, a person who had lost her husband, and telling Carole that her husband's family wanted nothing to do with her. She was not a nice person. Not at all. Every single person in the cast had a major problem with her at one point or another, except for maybe Kristen. It was Aviva who made a mockery of her own disability by taking off an expensive prosthetic, one that others would treasure, and lobbing it across a room to make a point. She used her own disability as a plot in her storyline by lobbing her leg, and therefore was the kind of person who thought nothing of trashing Carole's career to further her own storyline.  She deserved nothing from any of those gals. 

[bravofan27]

Quote

 

But Carole had explained to the audience that Aviva had asked her to help find a Ghosewriter for her book. This had been something they had worked on together, and Carole didn't know that Aviva was going to deny this fact later. This from Carole's blog at the time. Keep in mind, Aviva admitted that she had asked Carole for this help:

 

This wasn't on the show. I didn't read it, but it seems like damage control to me. I saw Aviva seem to be excited about writing a book, and Carole asking her about a ghostwriter. I didn't see anything that suggested they talked about it beforehand. Carole acted like it was news to her. 

[shoegal]

14 minutes ago, bravofan27 said:

This wasn't on the show. I didn't read it, but it seems like damage control to me. I saw Aviva seem to be excited about writing a book, and Carole asking her about a ghostwriter. I didn't see anything that suggested they talked about it beforehand. Carole acted like it was news to her. 

Carole's question was "did you end up hiring the writer?", which indicates to me that Carole and Aviva had previously discussed said writer. 

Edited June 23, 2016 by shoegal

[Trooper York]

I know that Carole is so far up Bethenny's ass that she is poking out her mouth like a kangaroo....but did I hear right....is her new cocktail called "Fat Jew?"

[ryebread]

11 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

 

Aviva had no problem calling someone white trash or an alcoholic. She had no problem looking at Carole, a person who had lost her husband, and telling Carole that her husband's family wanted nothing to do with her. She was not a nice person. Not at all. Every single person in the cast had a major problem with her at one point or another, except for maybe Kristen. It was Aviva who made a mockery of her own disability by taking off an expensive prosthetic, one that others would treasure, and lobbing it across a room to make a point. She used her own disability as a plot in her storyline by lobbing her leg, and therefore was the kind of person who thought nothing of trashing Carole's career to further her own storyline.  She deserved nothing from any of those gals. 

Aviva gave as good as she got.  As far as using her disability as a storyline, it wasn't all for naught.  She was involved in a good charity and wanted to promote that on the show which she did.  She didn't fling the leg until the last epi (?) in which I'm sure she was looking to make a statement, get those silly cows out of her face, and have the internet talking about it for years.  Job done.

Heather, Carole and Kristen all made nasty comments about her disability.  Heather went so far as to say..."You wouldn’t last a day in the ghetto, Drescher. Just a few words out of your snobby mouth and they’d likely take off that fancy leg of yours and beat your sorry, elitist, ignorant ass with it.”

Holla had just as many personalities as Aviva did.

[motorcitymom65]

51 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Aviva gave as good as she got.  As far as using her disability as a storyline, it wasn't all for naught.  She was involved in a good charity and wanted to promote that on the show which she did.  She didn't fling the leg until the last epi (?) in which I'm sure she was looking to make a statement, get those silly cows out of her face, and have the internet talking about it for years.  Job done.

Heather, Carole and Kristen all made nasty comments about her disability.  Heather went so far as to say..."You wouldn’t last a day in the ghetto, Drescher. Just a few words out of your snobby mouth and they’d likely take off that fancy leg of yours and beat your sorry, elitist, ignorant ass with it.”

Holla had just as many personalities as Aviva did.

True, all of it, but I think that Aviva is someone who has gone through life being allowed to treat people like shit because of something that happened to her a long time ago, which was horrible. Hard to know how something like that would impact anyone. I don't remember anyone saying anything bad about Aviva just for the fun of saying it. Nothing was ever said to Aviva until she came after the others. 

This franchise, more than any of the others, have had people on it that have suffered - and continue to suffer - real tragedy. They still get judged by most for their behavior. Aviva went after Carole about a book she had written regarding the illness and aftermath of her beloved husband and friends. I cannot imagine how that might have felt. Did those tragedies change Carole in some way? It would be hard to imagine that they did not. Is there a lot of compassion when she reacts in a way that is unconventional or inappropriate because of what has happened to her? Sometimes, sometimes not. Heather has gone through hell. It is difficult for me to image what it would be like to deal with the health issues she has to watch her son struggle with. Does that impact her? The way she relates to people? The way she feels the need to control the things she thinks she can control because of the many things she cannot? Still, in the middle of dealing with these very real issues, she is judged for the way she acts or treats others on the show. If she treats someone like shit, she is called out on it, regardless of the other stuff she had going on that might have something to do with how she handles things. 

[ryebread]

I agree with all this. I'm sure they all have life wounds.  We all do.  What I'm looking for is for one of them to rise above and shun the idea that just because someone treats you like crap, you turn around and treat them the same.  It doesn't mean they're weak for not striking at she-who-struck-first.  It actually makes them the better person.  I need someone to like on these shows and that's what it will take. 

I'd love to see just one of them be introspective and think:  "so-and-so has suffered this in her life, maybe that's why she's acting like this.  I still can't stand her, but I'm going to be the bigger person and ignore/disengage or...gasp!...treat with kindness."  I'd fall down in disbelief. Or, even if they don't care at all what their nemesis has gone through wouldn't if be remarkable if they could simply turn the other cheek just because they were THAT CHILL?

Not one of the HWs across the franchises, that I watch, possesses that ability.  Probably why I've never had a favorite.  Well, Lisa V for a while.  But I've learned that even Her Royal Pinkness is not above kicking someone when they're down.

The "Fuck being the better person" attitude seems to be the pre-requisite for being hired as a HW in the first place. I suppose if they were all reasonable and chill, we wouldn't have a show to discuss. :-)

[Almost 3000]

That's why for the most part I choose to look at most of them as good characters on the show or not. LuAnn and LVP (until Dancing with the Stars) were always good characters with interesting backstories that brought them to this point. I'd still want to see Carole as a good character but she's not showing any of her past accomplishments this season and if anything she's sadly erasing any of the legacy she brought to the show. She like LVP have become dull. Don't bore me housewives!

[ryebread]

Progress on the cookbook has stalled.  Surprised?  Anyone?

https://soundcloud.com/alinaonair/carole-radziwill-interview-062216

[ryebread]

I like the idea and the name but I don't know how many people will be interested in such a thing.

Grow Bar

[biakbiak]

So it's basically a wooden Aerogarden.

[Otherkate]

I'm a vegetarian who loves to cook and I'm not terribly moved by a whole box dedicated to microgreens. Meh.

[NewDigs]

Looks, to me, like a fad/Christmas present type thing. Seen at your local thrift store by June.

Maybe they should have considered a system for growing herbs. 

Their Kickstarter account has soared to $18,504. Only $46,496. to go!

Edited June 26, 2016 by NewDigs

[zoeysmom]

I think Aero Gardens and others having been doing this for quite sometime.  Williams Sonoma has a variety of offerings.

I fins it mildly offensive that Adam, who is from a wealthy family, Carole who earns in the mid to high six figures are even wasting space on the Kickstarter begging for start up funds.  Adam should have negotiated appearance fees from the show for start up money. 

having been the recipient of a counter top grow garden, I must say they lose their charm pretty quick when you weigh the counter space used.  Perhaps the attractive wooden container is meant to be a center piece.

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, zoeysmom said:

I think Aero Gardens and others having been doing this for quite sometime.  Williams Sonoma has a variety of offerings.

I fins it mildly offensive that Adam, who is from a wealthy family, Carole who earns in the mid to high six figures are even wasting space on the Kickstarter begging for start up funds.  Adam should have negotiated appearance fees from the show for start up money. 

having been the recipient of a counter top grow garden, I must say they lose their charm pretty quick when you weigh the counter space used.  Perhaps the attractive wooden container is meant to be a center piece.

LOL I have an Aero Garden and loved it but needed the counter space it took up back. It is wonderful to have fresh picked lettuce, herbs and vine ripened tomatoes in the middle of winter but I needed the space for things I use everyday (I have a small kitchen). Some day, I will find space for it and use it again but only in the winter as I we have our own garden in the spring/summer/fall outside.

Oh, and the AG is more efficient/cost effective in that once you trim an herb it will continue to produce new shoots to cut again in a week or so, Adams system doesn't seem to do that so you have to keep buying pods once you snip them, which equals more $$$ for Adam/partner. LOL

[Mondrianyone]

On 6/23/2016 at 7:37 AM, BusyOctober said:

It was a vanity project so these NYC socialites could dress up and bring their dogs to a fancy party under the guise of "doing important work" for one night.  The wedding part wasn't even done well IMO. 

I was thinking that despite how stupid and disorganized the lead-up to the wedding was, well, at least the vows would be witty and well written.  It's New York, after all.  You can't walk ten paces without tripping over a "writer."  And that part ended up being so lame and pointless and dull-witted.  Any one of us who posts in this forum could've done a better job.  We always say the people on the show read the forums, but apparently they don't read enough.

I don't have an Aerogarden or a GrowBar.  I have a revolutionary device called a clay pot ($1.69) which I carefully position on another space-age device called a windowsill (free with house).  Seems to work just fine.  I am still in the market for a jet pack, though.

[Trooper York]

Carole's ghost writer was busy writing up her Kickstarter campaign so he couldn't do the wedding vows. Sad.

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, stewedsquash said:

@WireWrap Stupid question: Couldn't you put it in another room? I want you to have produce growing in your home and won't sleep until we find a way.

@Mondrianyone  You need to get to The Office Small Talk: Chilli's thread. KingOfBirds is your soul mate.

Not really. The only other place is in the dinning room and our cats would be able to get to it there. Greggory would just love to, nibble, claw and roll on the plants, he is a stinker with any type of live plant or cut flower.

[imjagain]

I just watched Carole on WWH, she was on there with the actress from unReal.  Carole is as much a liar as Andy.  The actress asked do you all get your own producers?  Carole stammered and said no. The actress then said because that all looks staged (they had just shown a clip). Of Andy and Carole start going on about how it's real and you can't fake that blah blah.. 

The best part for me was when Carole says when she is watching unReal,  she thinks is that what our producers do?

She also said she thought it was rude for Dorinda and the new HW (sorry I don't her name) to sit around and call her judgy, lol. 

That's  as far as I got,  because I'm so over most of these "houswives".  if you get a chance to watch unReal, you should, it's very good. 

Eta:Shiri Appleby  is the actress name.  Sorry I didn't want to be rude. Don't you all get all judgy. 

Edited June 30, 2016 by imjagain

[WireWrap]

Moved from episode thread.....Replying to post by Harperlee1

I agree with this. Even with Adam, she's vegan... but not really. When he went out of town, she said she was back to eating her old way again. I think the main reasons people become vegan is because of ethical reasons or health reasons. But because your boyfriend is? Veganism is a huge lifestyle change, one difficult to sustain when your boyfriend is the one who has the convictions for you instead of you having them for yourself. 

The title of her book will be "The Reluctant Vegan," and I get that it's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but she really is a reluctant vegan. Why? At 50, there should be few things she does reluctantly. Just eat vegan when your bf cooks and eat the foods you like otherwise.

When she was dating that musician, she talked about how she liked to smoke pot and listen to records. I bet that was something he was into. 

I wonder what she was like growing up. I'm guessing not the popular kid, but the one who longed to be accepted, so said/did/became what she thought the people she liked or admired wanted her to. 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think that Carole lost herself when Anthony got really sick and she had to take charge of his medical care/health/dying/death. When she and CBK got close, she was able to let go, let someone else take the reins about everything else, then when she lost her, she didn't know who she was or what she wanted any more other than she didn't want to be in charge of anything. So now, she is attracted to strong female friends, take charge women that she allows to shape her life because she is unable to it and/or doesn't want to do it herself. I think deep down, she craved structure/stability (marriage/children/career) for her own life but was terrified about the possible responsibility that entailed so she gave up those needs and instead sought out others that take charge/care of her. This way, she isn't the one that has to make the hard decisions, someone else does it for her and she just goes along.

[Pickles]

How is she a writer? "My agent is worried about Adam and I." 

[Knuckles]

Adam is the least enthusiastic lover I have ever seen. He sits as far away from Carole as he can...and has that polite but slightly bored look men have when their mother's friends come to visit. Man, he is already done with her, but does Carole realize that? Maybe they are just playing this one out until the end of the season.

[ElDosEquis]

14 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

Adam is the least enthusiastic lover I have ever seen. He sits as far away from Carole as he can...and has that polite but slightly bored look men have when their mother's friends come to visit. Man, he is already done with her, but does Carole realize that? Maybe they are just playing this one out until the end of the season.

My wife knows that I have checked out when I talk about whipping up a vegan meal or pick up a guitar and start to play while she is talking to me.

 

What she doesn't know is that I am a carnivore and can't play the guitar...

[LilaFowler]

19 hours ago, Pickles said:

How is she a writer? "My agent is worried about Adam and I." 

Her ghostwriter has impeccable grammar.

[LIMOM]

I thought that it was nice of Carole to give Luann that heart shaped crystal.

Maybe because she has a boy, she managed to be appropriately happy for Lu,

especially in comparison to Sonja and Ramona who could barely contain their jealousy.

[Natalie68]

I like Carol well enough but her story is boring as F.  She was sweet to Luann but she needs a jazzier storyline.  I don't care about your cookbook, your boyfriend looks like he smells like patchouli and bo, and her dog name bugs me (that is irrational of me but I can't help it, naming furry companions is important!).

I want to see more of her STORY.  She seems to hold a lot back.  And honestly I see enough of 20 something boys at work.  If that is what I wanted to watch I would watch Vanderpump Rules.

[OhGromit]

Ugh, poor Carole.  I don't even think she realizes how she makes like a 25-year-old in her scenes with Adam.  It makes me sad.  She's so scared to lose him.  I think in her head she's pretending she's his age, without even realizing she's doing it.  

[jinjer]

She could at least do a story about writer's block.

[Neeners]

I am shocked how much she insults people on twitter.

[ElDosEquis]

I think that they should insist on carole having a feedbag on during the scenes where she has to eat.

That way she would have to use her nasty hands and keep her mouth covered when she eats?

[Otherkate]

Gross.

[seasick]

On 7/21/2016 at 5:52 PM, Natalie68 said:

I like Carol well enough but her story is boring as F.  She was sweet to Luann but she needs a jazzier storyline.  I don't care about your cookbook, your boyfriend looks like he smells like patchouli and bo, and her dog name bugs me (that is irrational of me but I can't help it, naming furry companions is important!).

I want to see more of her STORY.  She seems to hold a lot back.  And honestly I see enough of 20 something boys at work.  If that is what I wanted to watch I would watch Vanderpump Rules.

Eaauu yeah--maybe Adam could get a gig on Vanderpump Rules.  Why even call her boxer "her dog" when it lives 3000 miles away and she only sees it on occasion.  What's the point?  That bugs me more that "Baby"  which is a little Freudian --like 2  23 year olds with their first apartment and their baby sub--the dog.

I've said before --Carole does not belong on this show.  It does her no favors. She is not a glamour girl, she is not a "ladies who lunch" type.  I wish for her sake she'd get back in the news/journalism game, instead of arguing on twitter which I would have assumed was a bit childish even for her but -apparently not.  She's bored--she's boring.

[Lady Grump]

I so agree with the folks up-thread -- Adam is straight-up dreary. Personally, I think he’s got a side chick. That, or he cheats on the regular. Yeah, there's just something about that grungy whippersnapper that awakens my "self-serving user" alarm.

Some extremely insecure people can present as overly confident and use pettiness as a shield. Maybe Carole? Come to think of it...naming her dog baby, the boyfriend situation, throwing herself a shower for her book (I've never understood the appeal of showers (the party kind), personally). I mean, sure, it's all harmless, but all together it's a clue about Carole's internal world. Externally, she's going for Carrie Bradshaw, hipster edition; but on the inside, she may be regretful and bitter about her husband's death and not being able to have a child with him (which may have been something that she, personally, wanted with him). Maybe it's all led to an insidious gender-role insecurity that she's subconsciously internalized, which culminates in...what we're watching play out...the nasty, stuck-up-seeming Regina George who wields insults cloaked in concern, as an erratic reaction to her own life's hurts and disappointments. If so, I have sympathy for that.

To the person who will try to drag me for implying that women without children are filled with regret - No. That is not what I am saying at all. I've chosen cats over kids, and don't regret the decision.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Lady Grump

[Almost 3000]

I'm rather Carole neutral but I liked when she first came aboard because of her backstory. That said, I have to get something off my chest. She is arguably the least attractive of the cast and I think this is why two of our non female posters relentlessly trash her.  It now seems more misogynist than clever. 

[jinjer]

I disagree that disliking Carole intensely is tantamount to misogyny.  Carole is one of the biggest critics of both the HWs and the viewers.  She treats people with disdain when she brings nothing whatsoever to the table herself.  Remember, she's smart enough to get paid to reveal what a jackass she is on TV, but we are "dumb" enough to watch and snark on it for free. ;) She's the one going through plastic surgery, doing facial treatments and posting photos of it on twitter, commenting on Jules weight, commenting on how sweaty and misshapen John is.  She goes on twitter and treats people like crap.  When people call her out for it ("It's ok to say mean things to Jules if they are true") and say mean things back to her doesn't mean they are misogynistic. Plenty of people make fun of Ramona's eyes, boobs, gut or Bethenny's jawline or "LuMan's" voice and criticize their behavior. I don't see any difference.

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, Almost 3000 said:

I'm rather Carole neutral but I liked when she first came aboard because of her backstory. That said, I have to get something off my chest. She is arguably the least attractive of the cast and I think this is why two of our non female posters relentlessly trash her.  It now seems more misogynist than clever. 

Nah.  I'm a female and I've  been trashing her since before it was fashionable to do so - when she was golden as Heather's sidekick.  I saw what she was then and I still see it now.  She's just letting it all hang out now because it amuses her BFF Bethenny.

[Almost 3000]

6 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Nah.  I'm a female and I've  been trashing her since before it was fashionable to do so - when she was golden as Heather's sidekick.  I saw what she was then and I still see it now.  She's just letting it all hang out now because it amuses her BFF Bethenny.

Oh, I don't care if posters trash her at all. In fact much of it she deserves. I was being very specific about something that has been bothering me for awhile. It was meant as I stated for a couple of posters, I'll just leave it at that.

[Petunia13]

I'm a woman. I don't know if you're talking about me I've been called out before thinking she looks sixty. Which is apparently very offensive for many. I find a lot of Carole and Bethenny comments more offensive and cruel than that but mileage varies. I know if I'm called an idiot or whore or plastic fuck bag or crazy it would be more personal and cutting than someone assuming I'm 40. 

[Jextella]

I'm not a huge Carole fan....mostly I'm just disinterested.  I think she had an interesting life years ago, but not so much anymore.

Having said that, learning about her Twitter comments makes me think if I followed her on social media, my disinterest would evolve into dislike.

I do wonder if the death of her husband and the Kennedys traumatized her a bit and shaped how she proceeded in life afterwards.  It was a lot all at once and something she may still deal with.  

The other thing about Carole is that she doesn't have children.  I think people who choose not to have children see the world a bit differently than those who do.  In my experience, people who choose to have kids and work at raising them well are more nurturing and have higher levels of patience, empathy, and flexibility than those who choose not to have kids.  It just goes with the territory.  I think Carole has developed a world for herself that makes her feel safe.  It's controllable and she's not going to disrupt it.  Boring as all get out for my tastes, but...if it works for her, it's good thing.

I really don't mind that she is dating a younger guy - nor do I mind how she interacts with him.  I don't see any of it as childish or wierd.  Just a normal relationship, IMO. 

I don't think Carole is unattractive - but I can see how others would.  She definitely has a unique look that wouldn't be to everyone's tastes I think.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Jextella

[biakbiak]

Quote

 do wonder if the death of her husband traumatized her a bit and shaped how she proceeded in life afterwards.  It seemed sudden and fast and probably something she may still deal with.

He was diagnosed in 1989 and went into remission but it returned right before they got married in 1994 and he was basically sick and dying for all five years of their marriage so it was anything but sudden. Not saying that she doesn't stll deal with it but it was a very slow and hard process.

Edited August 1, 2016 by biakbiak

[WireWrap]

Just now, biakbiak said:

 

He was diagnosed in 1989 and went into remission but it returned right before they got married in 1994 and he was basically sick and dying for all five years of their marriage so it was anything but sudden. Not saying that she doesn't deal with it but was a very slow and hard process.

I think the 3 deaths, A/J/C, so close together were what put her in a tail spin that she has yet to recover from.

[Jextella]

27 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I think the 3 deaths, A/J/C, so close together were what put her in a tail spin that she has yet to recover from.

Yeah, yeah.  Forgot about some of this....amended post a bit.  

I've never experienced that kind of loss and I imagine it had to have been very traumatic.   Agree that she is still dealing with it, although I'm not sure how anyone really recovers from that kind of extreme loss.   Seems as if it might be similar to eating disorders as Jules said - not something you recover from but rather manage each day.  

[Otherkate]

On 7/31/2016 at 3:36 PM, Almost 3000 said:

Oh, I don't care if posters trash her at all. In fact much of it she deserves. I was being very specific about something that has been bothering me for awhile. It was meant as I stated for a couple of posters, I'll just leave it at that.

I'm with you. I've pretty much been chased off of the NYC boards (one of my former faves!) because of it and I barely even like Carole. That and the lack of fun. Every thread feels like the Yolanda thread to me lately. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Otherkate

[tenativelyyours]

On 7/31/2016 at 3:23 PM, ryebread said:

Nah.  I'm a female and I've  been trashing her since before it was fashionable to do so - when she was golden as Heather's sidekick.  I saw what she was then and I still see it now.  She's just letting it all hang out now because it amuses her BFF Bethenny.

I think being on the show changes these people the longer they are on.  In some they gain a bit of perspective and awareness (but sadly never quite attain true enlightenment as long as they scamper to be in a RH camera shot).  Others I think merely relax their guard and don't hold that facade up as high or firmly as they did when they first came on.  Some it is both.  But Carole seems to be the same smug, self-involved vapid mean girl she tried to hide but I think couldn't help but let the glimmers shine through.  Aviva and that couples dinner and her careful juggling with the blow up against Ramona and Sonja. 

But my real question/issue, is what does Adam think if he watches the first season and that hilarious contrived douchebag hipster twenty something she thinks she is the arch coquette with and he seems to not understand why Francis the Mule is blocking his shot with the camera.  Despite the whole exchange feeling like she promised her cute barista a speaking role on the show if he pretended to be almost every so slightly interested in her stumbling awkward free spirit approach?  I wonder if Adam realizes just how eventual he or some other twenty something was going to be in trying to whittle a few years off ole hickory there perception wise?

[ryebread]

10 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I think the 3 deaths, A/J/C, so close together were what put her in a tail spin that she has yet to recover from.

You'd think all that emotional pain and suffering would make her more compassionate to those who also might be suffering.