Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[ShawnaLanne]

4 hours ago, geauxaway said:

Totally.  And especially at a time in her life such as this.  Death typically makes us evaluate our lives and take inventory.  Does anyone know how old her mother is?   

Yes. It is crazy to think about connecting with her mother. That level of venom, the dismissivness she publicly had towards Brynn, in one of the articles she was paid for, to talk shit about Bethenny in, would seal the deal forever for me as a parent. Yeah not just no, but hell no.

Edited October 29, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[breezy424]

Beth has always been the great exaggerator.  So is her mother the person Beth portrays her to be?  I'm not so sure.  Has Beth's mother responded to Beth's claims?  Yeah.  I get that. 

There's Beth's version.  There's her mother's version.  And the 'truth' lies somewhere in the middle.

[Rap541]

Yeah, based on the interviews Bernadette has done, this is a rare time where I don't think Bethenny is exaggerating. When I couple that with John Parisella  conceding the abuse Bethenny described took place and told Bethenny her mother never wanted a child... I'm really not ready to shake Bernadette Birk's hand and crown her "Mother of the Year and Yet Another Innocent Victim of Bethenny Frankel's". 

Sorry, this one is a bridge too far for me. 

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

12 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Beth has always been the great exaggerator.  So is her mother the person Beth portrays her to be?  I'm not so sure.  Has Beth's mother responded to Beth's claims?  Yeah.  I get that. 

There's Beth's version.  There's her mother's version.  And the 'truth' lies somewhere in the middle.

Mother Bethenny (90 Day Fiance humor) has responded most if not all times to Bethenny's venom. The truth lies in the middle if anything. B is the great exaggerator. 

19 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Is it crazy to suggest she try to reconnect with her Mother? She is her only family after all.  How can we believe Bethenny was raised by wolves?  Just because she said so?  She desperately needs a support system, someone to talk to and have a little help.  Who else but a Mother?  It’s never too late.  Before it’s too late.

Bethenny will only re-connect with her mother when there is money and fame in it for Bethenny and she can televise it. 

[Mrs peel]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 8:24 PM, QuinnM said:

It’s taken a while for me to have this very important conversation with my lawyer friend.  So here is what is going on.  The judge has seen all the documentation from the stalking, harassment charges that Hoppy had leveled against him.  Now the judge has Hoppy coming into court because he had some whining complaint that Bethenny had too much fun on a Saturday night.

Often this happens with divorce cases.  One of the participants becomes belligerent and vows to make his (her) ex’s life a living hell.  Then they get arrested.  Then they get probation.  Their attorney says, dude you do it one more time and you’ll lose custody.  So he starts using the court to harass the ex.  Judges do not like the system being used as a weapon by some ex who just wants to punish his ex.  Judges think their time is better spent protecting people with real problems.  So this judge was laying it down.  He was saying to Hoppy, don’t come in here and use the system to do what you personally are no longer able to do.  This system is for real issues.  It is not for your petty ego driven vendetta with your ex.

And from what the judge said, on the record, he wants Hoppy to act like a Elsa and let it go. 

The problem with that analysis is that it was B who filed the petition to change custody.

And the stalking charges were dropped, he didn't get probation.

[Mrs peel]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 6:16 PM, Celia Rubenstein said:

Maybe the judge had no respect for the fact that Jason only demanded that Bethenny be drug tested after it was clear things were not going his way in court and he was desperately grasping for a way to undermine Bethenny's position. Because if he had sincere concerns about Bethenny's drug use he should have brought an action on his own and not held the idea in reserve to use when/if things didn't go his way in front of the judge.

It's all about credibility. And Jason appears to have very little in the judge's eyes. I can understand why.

 

We have no evidence of anything at all at this point, actually. I was merely addressing the notion that a custody battle is uniquely harmful ... I happen to believe there are things which are just as bad, if not worse. I was not suggesting anything has been proven at this point.

 

I suspect the drama is pretty evenly divided ...  Bethenny's antics are well known, but let's not forget Jason's email harassment campaign or the hissy fit he threw at his daughter's school that earned him a restraining order, lol. He's not wrapped any tighter than she is. 

I agree we have no evidence of anything at all at this point, because there's been no hearing.  Which to me (and I'm a former divorce attorney), makes any statement from the Judge about the requests problematic - because he hasn't heard all the evidence either.  The Judge can't decide credibility until he's heard the evidence (we of course can decide credibility on other grounds!).

We just disagree about the drama and who causes it.

[Rap541]

1 hour ago, Mrs peel said:

Which to me (and I'm a former divorce attorney), makes any statement from the Judge about the requests problematic - because he hasn't heard all the evidence either. 

So is what the judge doing wrong or breaking some rule? I ask because you seem to be suggesting that it's untoward and that Jason is being treated unfairly by the judge.

I do think I see Celia's point on credibility. Jason was fine with the current custody agreement, to where Jason is lauded for leaving Bryn in a situation where she is thriving, and how dare Bethenny want to change that?

So now that Bethenny has filed for a change in custody, now Jason is suddenly concerned about Bethenny's possible use of drugs? In the home where Bryn is thriving?

I mean, isn't this just Jason wanting to rip his daughter from a home that she is *thriving* in?  And if Bryn is thriving then its selfish of *Bethenny* to want to change things but if Jason wants to change things, he's not a monster for wanting to rip Bryn from the situation where she is *thriving*?

*I know there will be a knee jerk "Bethenny started it!" and she did and so far, the legal system hasn't said "Bethenny is being ridiculous and this ends now" and she's not so rich or so powerful that she can just flick her fingers and get custody so she must have raise *some* point that the court wants to look at. 

**I also don't think there's been any significant change in Bethenny's drinking/drug habits which makes it odd that it's taken this long for Jason to be concerned

[Rosiejuliemom]

2 hours ago, Rap541 said:

So is what the judge doing wrong or breaking some rule? I ask because you seem to be suggesting that it's untoward and that Jason is being treated unfairly by the judge.

I do think I see Celia's point on credibility. Jason was fine with the current custody agreement, to where Jason is lauded for leaving Bryn in a situation where she is thriving, and how dare Bethenny want to change that?

So now that Bethenny has filed for a change in custody, now Jason is suddenly concerned about Bethenny's possible use of drugs? In the home where Bryn is thriving?

I mean, isn't this just Jason wanting to rip his daughter from a home that she is *thriving* in?  And if Bryn is thriving then its selfish of *Bethenny* to want to change things but if Jason wants to change things, he's not a monster for wanting to rip Bryn from the situation where she is *thriving*?

Jason's request for a drug test came after Bethenny's boyfriend died from a drug overdose and behavior that she exhibited on the show that could be seen as questionable. Bethenny's motion for sole legal custody came after...what, exactly? Why did she feel the need to file for a change in custody? Jason had a legitimate reason to be concerned. He also isn't filing for sole custody.

I also think the judge should have refrained from chastising Jason in court. Whatever their feelings are, they should have remained private.

I'm not saying that Jason is spotless in this entire thing. Nor do I think Bethenny is a monster. They are both extremely bitter people who need to grow the fuck up, put their own shit to the side, and find a way to raise their daughter.

[ShawnaLanne]

19 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Beth has always been the great exaggerator.  So is her mother the person Beth portrays her to be?  I'm not so sure.  Has Beth's mother responded to Beth's claims?  Yeah.  I get that. 

There's Beth's version.  There's her mother's version.  And the 'truth' lies somewhere in the middle.

There's more than one article where she shits on her granddaughter, in print. Bethenny's mom is a twat.

[Rap541]

2 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

Bethenny's motion for sole legal custody came after...what, exactly? Why did she feel the need to file for a change in custody?

Whatever her reason, it wasn't dismissed, it's actually going to trial and filing the request is not an automatic "you will get a trial" thing. So the judge has found some reason to not dismiss the request out of hand. 

That can happen, a request being dismissed out of hand. Like Jason's request to have Bethenny drug tested - that got dismissed out of hand. The judge clearly felt there was no merit to it. 

7 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

Jason had a legitimate reason to be concerned. He also isn't filing for sole custody.

He's concerned enough to ask for the wife to be drug tested but not concerned enough to file for sole custody and get the child out of the drug house. That's where I see the problem with his request, actually. If he genuinely believes this is going on, why isn't he taking more serious steps to save his child? I mean lets remember, this current custody case ends either with Bethenny continuing with joint custody or Bethenny with sole custody. Jason isn't filing for any change in custody... despite his supposed concern over Bethenny's drug use. He doesn't have to wait until Bethenny's case is done to file his own request, and really, right now he's the douche who is "legitimately concerned" about his ex's drug use who isn't filing for a change in custody based on that concern. 

Remember, Jason is so worried about Bethenny's drug use, he's not requesting any change in custody at all. That's what makes me think it's not a real concern of his at all. Because he's currently ok with his daughter leaving his control every other week to be with the drug user.

I kind of love how Bethenny's a bad parent if she so much as misses the priveledge and honor of PTA meetings but Jason isn't judged at all for thinking joint custody with someone he is legitimately concerned has a drug problem is fine to continue.

[langford peel]

I am new to Instagram but Iseem to catch a lot of posts by Bethany where her daughter is just out of the frame but you can hear her voice.

i would bet that if she gets a chance she will go all Kim Richards with the kid.

i hope someone can stop that.

[breezy424]

4 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

There's more than one article where she shits on her granddaughter, in print. Bethenny's mom is a twat.

Honestly, I don't remember any article of her shitting on her granddaughter except to say she is a stranger to her and doesn't know what to say to her.  I also think that Bernadette knows Beth well enough to 'know' that Beth has ulterior motives.  It's like when she wanted her stepfather in her life or her mother in Bryn's life.  Where did those go?

4 hours ago, Rap541 said:

Whatever her reason, it wasn't dismissed, it's actually going to trial and filing the request is not an automatic "you will get a trial" thing. So the judge has found some reason to not dismiss the request out of hand. 

That can happen, a request being dismissed out of hand. Like Jason's request to have Bethenny drug tested - that got dismissed out of hand. The judge clearly felt there was no merit to it. 

He's concerned enough to ask for the wife to be drug tested but not concerned enough to file for sole custody and get the child out of the drug house. That's where I see the problem with his request, actually. If he genuinely believes this is going on, why isn't he taking more serious steps to save his child? I mean lets remember, this current custody case ends either with Bethenny continuing with joint custody or Bethenny with sole custody. Jason isn't filing for any change in custody... despite his supposed concern over Bethenny's drug use. He doesn't have to wait until Bethenny's case is done to file his own request, and really, right now he's the douche who is "legitimately concerned" about his ex's drug use who isn't filing for a change in custody based on that concern. 

Remember, Jason is so worried about Bethenny's drug use, he's not requesting any change in custody at all. That's what makes me think it's not a real concern of his at all. Because he's currently ok with his daughter leaving his control every other week to be with the drug user.

I kind of love how Bethenny's a bad parent if she so much as misses the priveledge and honor of PTA meetings but Jason isn't judged at all for thinking joint custody with someone he is legitimately concerned has a drug problem is fine to continue.

I don't think anyone said anything about PTA meetings.  It was about other things you brought up about conferences and school events.  Those are definitely different than PTA.

I understand Jason's reasoning.  Before you request full custody you have to prove there is a reason.  The first step is drug testing.  If that's negative, then you have no cause for full custody. 

[Rap541]

12 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I don't think anyone said anything about PTA meetings.  It was about other things you brought up about conferences and school events.  Those are definitely different than PTA.

In response to that I simply quote this - 

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:49 PM, geauxaway said:

If she is going to war for 100% custody for whatever reason (I honestly don’t know the fine print details) then yes, she better be at every single fucking meeting, event, fundraiser, etc.  For what reason would a parent ever miss a parent teacher conference?

Bethenny is clearly expected, since she requested custody to attend *every fucking meeting, event, fundraiser, etc.*

14 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I understand Jason's reasoning.  Before you request full custody you have to prove there is a reason.  The first step is drug testing.  If that's negative, then you have no cause for full custody. 

So Jason needs to agree he has no reason to get full custody since the court decided Bethenny's apparently obvious coke/Adderall problem is not really an issue?

Because my point, such as it was, is that if Jason isn't willing to go to war over his kid, he either doesn't care, or doesn't really think there's such a concern that he *needs* to go to war over custody.

If Bethenny is a monster parent, worse than Bernadette, then Jason has no real issue handing his daughter over to the monster. 

My guess? Jason is either a real asshole who doesn't care about his kid, OR he doesn't have real concerns about his daughter spending 50 percent of her time with her mother since he isn't filing for a change in custody

[film noire]

Excerpt from "BethenMe: A Martyred Mom's Guide to Narc Parenting":

"... I've done nothing outside the bounds of average parenting (honestly,  what mother hasn't brought her five year old daughter on a vacation with a brand new boyfriend the press is credibly accusing of tag-team raping a coed with his bestie?  Nothing says Easter break like an alleged rapist putting sunscreen on my little girl!) And what seven year old child doesn't have somone like Uncle Denny, the opiod addict, babysit her? And surely every girl in an average American home has watched her beloved dog horrifically seize as her mother -- shrieking like a banshee -- has sobbed into a camera, instead of calling a nearby vet. (That's a  modern day Norman Cockwell cover!) And this Skinnygirl mom can't be bothered with tedious things like life jackets on boats,  or, worst of all (a crime comparable to all those MANY fake rapes I keep reading about!) the terrifying crime of...eating hot dogs. (Wanna blowjob?) That's why I've had to spend the last six years of my daughter's life in court, trying to limit her exposure to my ex (AKA "white trash", as I called him in front of our little girl. Because it's one thing to holiday with dudes who rape coeds and work with men who stalk coma victims,  but I draw the line at the menz with the truly horrific pasts -- lower middle class backgrounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Amirite, ladies?) Every Mom in America acts just like I do, so stop treating me as if I'm some outlier -- cuz if you keep holding me to standards the rest of you loser bitches live your lives by? I'll be taking YOUR kid on a vacay with an alleged rapist, leaving her with an opiod addict, sending her out on the water with no life jacket, and posting intimate details of her life on social media (but hey, at least she won't be eating a hot dog!)" ~Bethenny Frankel (normalizing the abnormal since 2013).

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by film noire

[Rap541]

11 minutes ago, film noire said:

And what seven year old girl doesn't have her Uncle Denny, the opiod addict, babysit her?

I guess we're past honoring Jill's beloved love of her life?

And its been three months, time for Jill's "young children" to get that daddy was an addict?

I'm always unclear about the etiquette...

Edited October 30, 2018 by Rap541

[Mrs peel]

18 hours ago, Rap541 said:

So is what the judge doing wrong or breaking some rule? I ask because you seem to be suggesting that it's untoward and that Jason is being treated unfairly by the judge.

I do think I see Celia's point on credibility. Jason was fine with the current custody agreement, to where Jason is lauded for leaving Bryn in a situation where she is thriving, and how dare Bethenny want to change that?

So now that Bethenny has filed for a change in custody, now Jason is suddenly concerned about Bethenny's possible use of drugs? In the home where Bryn is thriving?

I mean, isn't this just Jason wanting to rip his daughter from a home that she is *thriving* in?  And if Bryn is thriving then its selfish of *Bethenny* to want to change things but if Jason wants to change things, he's not a monster for wanting to rip Bryn from the situation where she is *thriving*?

*I know there will be a knee jerk "Bethenny started it!" and she did and so far, the legal system hasn't said "Bethenny is being ridiculous and this ends now" and she's not so rich or so powerful that she can just flick her fingers and get custody so she must have raise *some* point that the court wants to look at. 

**I also don't think there's been any significant change in Bethenny's drinking/drug habits which makes it odd that it's taken this long for Jason to be concerned

Since I don’t know exactly what the judge said, as opposed to what is being reported, I don’t want to opine on whether he’s broken any rule.  And judges have a lot of latitude for what they say from the bench,too much many lawyers will say.

i don’t think Jason’s question about drugs comes from nowhere - to me it flows directly from learning (probably for the first time) that Bks boyfriend/friend/fiancé/what3ver died of a drug overdose, and that he had an addiction he hid very well.  And B’s apparent odd behavior (I don’t follow any of these folks on social media so am relying on my fellow posters for that info).

not knowing enough of the actual facts, I don’t know if I agree with Jason’s theory or decision to bring this up, but I just disagree with those who say it’s wrong to bring it up, or the timing is wrong, etc.

[ShawnaLanne]

On 10/29/2018 at 10:43 PM, breezy424 said:

Honestly, I don't remember any article of her shitting on her granddaughter except to say she is a stranger to her and doesn't know what to say to her.  I also think that Bernadette knows Beth well enough to 'know' that Beth has ulterior motives.  It's like when she wanted her stepfather in her life or her mother in Bryn's life.  Where did those go?

I don't think anyone said anything about PTA meetings.  It was about other things you brought up about conferences and school events.  Those are definitely different than PTA.

I understand Jason's reasoning.  Before you request full custody you have to prove there is a reason.  The first step is drug testing.  If that's negative, then you have no cause for full custody. 

"In a new interview with Radar Online, Bethenny's mother Bernadette Birk told her version of events, and said the 45-year-old didn't make an effort of her own accord, but just did what Bryn asked."

Yeah, grandma of the year there, a great person to hook her daughter up with, someone who couldn't give one fuck about getting to know her granddaughter.

She's talked to her once in 12 years and had this to say.

“I can’t understand why she would fight for full custody. She’s not a very good mother. In my experience, she’s not a very giving person.”

I'm thinking Bernie is bitter Bethenny isn't giving her money. 

I will repeat, I would think Bethenny really was a psycho bitch bad mother if she let her daughter have anything to do with that toxic woman.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

On 10/29/2018 at 7:14 PM, langford peel said:

I am new to Instagram but Iseem to catch a lot of posts by Bethany where her daughter is just out of the frame but you can hear her voice.

i would bet that if she gets a chance she will go all Kim Richards with the kid.

i hope someone can stop that.

Bryn is on IG at Bethenny's assistants NoLa wedding full face in several videos, a few clicks away. The ironic part is that B is wearing a mardi gras masquerade mask probably so she isn't recognized. Meanwhile...... There's Bryn on social media.......

On 10/30/2018 at 11:06 AM, Mrs peel said:

 

i don’t think Jason’s question about drugs comes from nowhere - to me it flows directly from learning (probably for the first time) that Bks boyfriend/friend/fiancé/what3ver died of a drug overdose, and that he had an addiction he hid very well.  And B’s apparent odd behavior (I don’t follow any of these folks on social media so am relying on my fellow posters for that info).

 

Agree, prudent of Jason to request testing. If things were the opposite Bethenny would have had done the same and probably worse.

8 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

 

Yeah, grandma of the year there, a great person to hook her daughter up with, someone who couldn't give one fuck about getting to know her granddaughter.

She's talked to her once in 12 years and had this to say.

“I can’t understand why she would fight for full custody. She’s not a very good mother. In my experience, she’s not a very giving person.”

 

It was Mother Bethenny who called at Bryn's birth and spoke to either Jason or Mrs. Hoppy. Bethenny shut the door on it. Her mom tried, and given the call came right at Bryn's birth there was genuine happiness and excitement about becoming a grandmother. That's a genuine attempt. 

I agree with her that Bethenny is not a very giving person. Yeah Yeah Hurricane Schmuricane she does that to fill her bottomless pit of need and attention to the CORE. Sorry not sorry. 

[Rap541]

Yeah still not buying Bernadette is an innocent victim.

But you know, if Jason is so worried about Grangran Bernie getting to know Bryn, he can reach out to Bernadette and have the woman over during his custody time if Bernadette really wants that relationship.

I mean, Jason is all about family and loving family relationships. He's no longer married to Bethenny and doesn't have to clear guests through Bethenny. If Bernadette wants to see Bryn, and isn't the monster Bethenny says since Bethenny can't be trusted, why isn't Jason inviting Bryn's OTHER grandma over for visits?

Now personally, I suspect Jason isn't an idiot and doesn't want his kid hanging around a hostile abusive drunk... but I am not the one making the argument that Bernadette is a nice person being victimized by Bethenny.

[pasdetrois]

The thing about the custody system is that sometimes it essentially forces people to be aggressive in contentious cases. In my experience watching family members go through two different custody battles, if one parent is passive, accommodating, "turns the other cheek," is noble, etc., and the other parent is 180 degrees from that approach, the accommodating parent gets steamrolled.

Money is a big factor and really puts any parent without it at risk. In addition to attorneys' fees, parents have to pay for the psychiatric evaluations and reports, during which the parents, siblings, and sometimes others are evaluated. There are parents who, directly and indirectly, pressure and manipulate the children to favor them over the other parent. And once you lose physical time with the children, the other parent pins a lot of future custody challenges to the fact that the children spend most of their time with that parent. It snowballs.

I hope we continue to move toward joint custody, with judges instructing quarreling parents to settle down and behave. It would save a lot of money, time and most importantly reduce the damage to the children.

I've always believed that Jason made an opportunistic marriage, and Bethenny just wanted a child. There was no way the marriage would last, and their lousy relationship primed the custody battle. I do think Bethenny is very damaged in ways that will harm Brynn long term, unless Bethenny works hard to overcome her weaknesses. Her choices in all her men are questionable.

Edited November 2, 2018 by pasdetrois

[langford peel]

I get that a lot of people just hate Jason but how is it that Bethenny's behavior and obvious drug abuse issues do not have a bearing on custody? I don't get it. Maybe someone who is more informed about New York State law can explain why introducing someone to their children's life who abuses drugs to the point of dying of an overdose doesn't materailly affect the custody arrangements? It doesn't seem kosher to me.

[Rap541]

I think, ignoring the Bethenny issue, that it's a matter of where is the line?

If bethenny and Jason were happily married, and they had a friend who had been to the home, maybe even was left alone with the child and who then died of an overdose... would Bryn be ripped from the home? I mean, her parents introduced her to a man who uses drugs and overdosed... wouldn't they be monsters?

And sad to say but the child welfare folks would be overrun with children if drug use affected custody.

[Celia Rubenstein]

2 hours ago, langford peel said:

I get that a lot of people just hate Jason but how is it that Bethenny's behavior and obvious drug abuse issues do not have a bearing on custody? I don't get it. Maybe someone who is more informed about New York State law can explain why introducing someone to their children's life who abuses drugs to the point of dying of an overdose doesn't materailly affect the custody arrangements? It doesn't seem kosher to me.

To start with, Dennis is dead. Any risk he might have posed to Bryn has passed. So what you are talking about is altering a child custody arrangement to punish Bethenny for what you think was bad judgment she demonstrated in the past. That is unfair to her and, more importantly, it is unfair to Bryn. There is no evidence Bryn needs protection from Bethenny's (supposed) bad judgment at the moment. Maybe she learned something from what happened with Dennis. Why potentially upend Bryn's life that way?  As Grammy Rubenstein used to say, it ain't broke ... why try to fix it?

But let's back up. Pretend Dennis is still alive and walk through this.

If merely associating with a person who has a drug (or alcohol) problem was in and of itself cause to re-litigate custody in every case, family courts would become hopelessly clogged in no time.  It's just too common.  It's also frequently completely irrelevant to the quality of parenting going on, quite honestly. And quality of parenting is the real issue as it directly impacts the child's safety and well-being. So while Bethenny may well associate with a drug user, that doesn't automatically make her a bad parent. Nor does it automatically make her a drug user. You need more than just the fact that her boyfriend uses drugs to be allowed to drag her into court and make her fight for custody of her kid. You need something about her that makes her unfit. You need real evidence. About her.  Merely allowing Bryn to know Dennis isn't sufficient without some proof she allows Dennis to put Bryn at risk somehow. And apparently the judge feels Instagram and clips from the show don't cut it.   I must say, I agree.   So what do you have? Nothing.

Now if Bethenny is making a habit of negligently leaving Bryn in the care of someone who can't be trusted to keep her safe for some reason - be it drug abuse, illness, criminality, chronic irresponsibility ... that's different. But as far as I know there is no evidence that Bethenny ever knowingly, repeatedly leaves Bryn in the care of a drug-addled person, putting her at risk of harm.  There is no evidence Dennis was ever under the influence of drugs when around Bryn at all, actually.  There is just the sad fact that he died of a drug overdose ... alone, not in Bethenny's company and certainly not in the company of Bryn.  His use of drugs/cause of death really has nothing to do with Bethenny's custody arrangements. It does not prove anything about her as a parent. Sure, she knew him. She let Bryn be around him.  But as I already pointed out, Dennis is dead.  Any danger he might have posed is long over.  There is no current cause for concern and no reason to make Dennis' drug use an issue in the custody case.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Celia Rubenstein

[Sew Sumi]

The way the OP wrote the sentence implied to me that Bethenny was  also using drugs and having suspicious "behavior." Yes, Beth has acted strangely at times, but who hasn't? She just allows these moments to be fodder for the public opinion gristmill; that is totally stupid. I have a lot of issues about Beth (including other motherhood choices) but drug abuse isn't one of them. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Sew Sumi
weird autocorrect shit

[Celia Rubenstein]

28 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

The way the OP wrote the sentence implied to me that Bethenny was  also using drugs and having suspicious "behavior." Yes, Beth has acted strangely at times, but who hasn't? She just allows these moments to be fodder for the public opinion gristmill; that is totally stupid. I have a lot of friends about Beth (including other motherhood choices) but drug abuse isn't one of them. 

The judge just sneered at Jason when he tried to demand drug testing based on Bethenny's ridiculous Instagram crap that he tried to claim was evidence she has a drug/ alcohol problem. But I agree, it's nothing but questionably designed PR nonsense meant to get tongues wagging. Which it does. Thank goodness the court realizes it.

You'd think Jason had security footage of Bethenny slugging a cop and dashcam video of her slurring murderous threats as she squirmed out of her handcuffs and sprinted away from the cruiser in her stilettos. But oops, that was Luann ... sorry, Jason! Try again.  Instagram won't cut it! 

[Sew Sumi]

No, don't have a lot of "friends" about Beth. Autocorrect strikes again. Corrected to read that I have ISSUES with her. Always have, and the way she's going, always will. That said, test her for drugs. If anything, she needs to take something for the mania.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

13 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

To start with, Dennis is dead. Any risk he might have posed to Bryn has passed. So what you are talking about is altering a child custody arrangement to punish Bethenny for what you think was bad judgment she demonstrated in the past.

Now if Bethenny is making a habit of negligently leaving Bryn in the care of someone who can't be trusted to keep her safe for some reason - be it drug abuse, illness, criminality, chronic irresponsibility ... that's different. But as far as I know there is no evidence that Bethenny ever knowingly, repeatedly leaves Bryn in the care of a drug-addled person, putting her at risk of harm.  There is no evidence Dennis was ever under the influence of drugs when around Bryn at all, actually.  

re bolded: It has NOT passed if anything traces back to Bethenny.  If he was found with Bethenny's leftover opiates ( benzos, or opiod painkillers from her GYN surgeries or plastic surg)  or evidence that any of the drugs were hers then I believe there could be still risk to Brynn. Especially if she provided them to him, or did not dispose of them knowing he was an opiod user. Which leads to  the 2nd paragraph quotes. ***IF there is evidence Jason is right to ask to see it, and know if it it exists. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. 

[Rap541]

Was he found with Bethenny's leftover drugs? I mean, I know there was a whole little "OMG AJ BENZA SAID THE COPS SEARCHED HER HOME" kerfuffle but it seems like the only person to witness that event was AJ Benza.

From Dennis himself, it seemed like Bethenny was backing away from a relationship with him. The jump off point seemed to be that Dennis died of an overdose but that's actually not really enough to assume Bethenny must have been supplying him. 

I mean, Jill, his wife, with the *young children* was insisting she saw Dennis every day - has she had her custody questioned? Was she providing her husband opioids? I mean, she saw him every day but the only concern anyone has is for the daughter of the woman he was no longer in a relationship with. 

I mean, by Jill Shield's own words, Dennis spent far more time with his own "young children" than he did with Bryn Hoppy. There's no real evidence that Bethenny abuses drugs herself (her behavior has always been a bit attention seeking and needy, but I see no escalation, she appears to be high strung and anxiety prone) and there's no evidence she was supplying Dennis, and I really haven't seen any indication Dennis was ever left entirely alone with Bryn. While I am certain it could have happened, my point is that Bryn wasn't the equivalent of the young child on Intervention who gets to watch Mommy or Daddy shoot up on the floor of a public restroom when it came to the access she had to Dennis Shields. Dennis didn't live with Bethenny... quite frankly Jason probably has as much reason if not more to be concerned that Bethenny is letting Bryn hang around Sonja and Luann, both of whom appear to have substance abuse problems. 

I think Jason had every right to ask for the drug test but the judge has turned his request down, and I have to assume the judge did that for a valid reason and not because the judge adores Bethenny Frankel. 

[Mrs peel]

On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:05 PM, langford peel said:

I get that a lot of people just hate Jason but how is it that Bethenny's behavior and obvious drug abuse issues do not have a bearing on custody? I don't get it. Maybe someone who is more informed about New York State law can explain why introducing someone to their children's life who abuses drugs to the point of dying of an overdose doesn't materailly affect the custody arrangements? It doesn't seem kosher to me.

Because it actually needs to have a negative effect on the child.  A friend who is around the child and uses drugs (but not around the child), isn't negatively affecting the child.   The courts don't like to change custody arrangements, it's thought to be bad for the child to make changes.  So it needs to be something major to make a change ("substantial change in circumstances" is often the term, not sure if that's what is used in NY).

And, while I don't like B and think her petition for change of custody is bullshit and vindictive, I'm not sure we can say she has "obvious drug abuse issues."   I don't think Jason was wrong to bring up the topic, but if the Judge has said no, that's it.
 

[Mrs peel]

On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:55 PM, Rap541 said:

I think, ignoring the Bethenny issue, that it's a matter of where is the line?

If bethenny and Jason were happily married, and they had a friend who had been to the home, maybe even was left alone with the child and who then died of an overdose... would Bryn be ripped from the home? I mean, her parents introduced her to a man who uses drugs and overdosed... wouldn't they be monsters?

And sad to say but the child welfare folks would be overrun with children if drug use affected custody.

That's just how it works.  If you are married, the state can only step in under limited circumstances.  Parental rights to raise children are highly protected in the US.

If you're divorced, you've opened up your life/finances/custody arrangements to the Courts, assuming you can't agree.

But drug abuse can affect parental rights, child welfare agencies get involved if a child is born with drugs in their system.  In fact, there's been a large increase in grandparents raising their grandkids due to the opioid crisis, and many of those situations probably arose due to child welfare/protective services taking the kids away from the parent(s).  It can be a formal, or informal arrangement.

[langford peel]

Maybe Jason will get lucky and the next guy Bethenny starts fucking won’t be a suicidal drug addict. 

Or the next five guys.

Its none of his business anyway what kind of guy she brings into his daughters life. I mean he is a monster after all because he lets her have a hot dog or ice cream.

The judge seems to really be on the ball here.

[Rap541]

38 minutes ago, langford peel said:

Maybe Jason will get lucky and the next guy Bethenny starts fucking won’t be a suicidal drug addict. 

I wonder how the so very young children of Jill Shields feel about that characterization of their dad.

Especially since it was an accidental overdose, with absolutely  no one calling it suicide.

[geauxaway]

Has Jason had or have a GF or SO since the separation / divorce?  This is a sincere question.  

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 hours ago, geauxaway said:

Has Jason had or have a GF or SO since the separation / divorce?  This is a sincere question.  

Just his mother.

[QuinnM]

7 hours ago, geauxaway said:

Has Jason had or have a GF or SO since the separation / divorce?  This is a sincere question.  

So seriously there have been gossip mag pictures with this or that mystery woman.  During BEA his PA buddies seem to talk like he never dates someone twice.  But I would take both those things with a grain of salt.  I can say that if he is still spending his weekends in PA that is where he’s dating.  And that would be nice.  Not many paparazzi up there.

[Rap541]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:14 AM, QuinnM said:

I can say that if he is still spending his weekends in PA that is where he’s dating.  And that would be nice.  Not many paparazzi up there.

But, and I continue to find this amusing, there's absolutely no evidence that Jason spends every weekend with his parents in Pennsylvania, and there's certainly no evidence that Jason insists that he take Bryn, every weekend he has her, for the oh so very important family time with the grandparents. Since he's the one who insisted that this is what good families did, I continue to find it hilarious he doesn't appear to practice his "every weekend I have with my daughter will ALSO be in PA with my parents because we're a family and good families spend every minute they can together!!" routine.

[HunterHunted]

On 11/5/2018 at 8:39 PM, langford peel said:

It"s none of his business anyway what kind of guy she brings into his daughter's life assuming the guy or his presence poses no danger to his daughter.

I think you're missing a couple of really key words because it absolutely is Jason's business if Bethenny brings into Bryn's life a child molester, an abuser, or criminal with a long list of enemies who wouldn't hesitate to kill him, Bethenny, and Bryn. If he knew or reasonably believed that Bethenny's boyfriend was dangerous, that sure as shit is his fucking business. If she's dating Larry Nassar or Stephen Collins and he says nothing, he's as garbage as she is. And the same would be true if Bethenny discovered that he was dating someone really problematic. Bethenny starts dating Charlie Sheen; Jason is allowed to say something to the court. Jason starts dating Lindsay Lohan or Brooke Mueller; Bethenny gets to say something about it too.

[Happy Camper]

18 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I think you're missing a couple of really key words because it absolutely is Jason's business if Bethenny brings into Bryn's life a child molester, an abuser, or criminal with a long list of enemies who wouldn't hesitate to kill him, Bethenny, and Bryn. If he knew or reasonably believed that Bethenny's boyfriend was dangerous, that sure as shit is his fucking business. If she's dating Larry Nassar or Stephen Collins and he says nothing, he's as garbage as she is. And the same would be true if Bethenny discovered that he was dating someone really problematic. Bethenny starts dating Charlie Sheen; Jason is allowed to say something to the court. Jason starts dating Lindsay Lohan or Brooke Mueller; Bethenny gets to say something about it too.

Even though the judge declined to validate Jason's concerns, at least Jason knows that he tried. If he had not brought his concerns into court, and a situation came up that involved Bethenny's association with drugs, he would have felt terrible. Good for him doing the right thing for Bryn, even if the judge didn't agree.

[langford peel]

Yeah a drug addict who kills himself with an overdose is no problem to hang out with your daughter. How dare you question it. Bethenny can introduce any drug taking low life into her daughters life and the judge will have no problem with it.

[ShawnaLanne]

On 11/5/2018 at 8:39 PM, langford peel said:

Maybe Jason will get lucky and the next guy Bethenny starts fucking won’t be a suicidal drug addict. 

Or the next five guys.

Its none of his business anyway what kind of guy she brings into his daughters life. I mean he is a monster after all because he lets her have a hot dog or ice cream.

The judge seems to really be on the ball here.

She could take on a football team all at once and it's not really relevant. Not sure why the bitterness at her love life.

Jason and Bethenny were a good match in that they are both opinionated and hard headed, but at least B acknowledges her faults. Jason is a wicked mix of misanthropy and Mama's boy. Nasy.

Edited November 11, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[langford peel]

You are right. I have no doubt she could take on a football team and that would be fine with the judge.

Maybe that can be her next series. Bethenny Pulls the Train.

[Rap541]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I think you're missing a couple of really key words because it absolutely is Jason's business if Bethenny brings into Bryn's life a child molester, an abuser, or criminal with a long list of enemies who wouldn't hesitate to kill him, Bethenny, and Bryn. If he knew or reasonably believed that Bethenny's boyfriend was dangerous, that sure as shit is his fucking business. If she's dating Larry Nassar or Stephen Collins and he says nothing, he's as garbage as she is. And the same would be true if Bethenny discovered that he was dating someone really problematic. Bethenny starts dating Charlie Sheen; Jason is allowed to say something to the court. Jason starts dating Lindsay Lohan or Brooke Mueller; Bethenny gets to say something about it too.

At last check, Dennis was not a child molester, an abuser, a criminal with a long list of enemies or dangerous in his own right. The reality of Dennis is that he was an opioid addict who was evidently very functional because no one was decrying Dennis as a drug taking lowlife while he was alive - it certainly wasn't public knowledge because there were no reports of arrests or scandalous behavior on Dennis's part. I mean, jeez lou-eeze, people were complaining that his job was what made him a low life. No one appears to have known he was using or that he had a problem.

Now, Jason has raised the concern after the death and got shot down, probably because a)Dennis is dead, b) Jason never had any concerns about the man while the man was alive and c) there's really no indication Bryn was ever harmed or in danger and not even much evidence that Bryn was ever left alone with Dennis.

Bethenny isn't dating Larry Nassar or Stephen Collins so raising the idea that Dennis is comparable to child rapists is a bit much for me - I'm not seeing how Dennis went from sleazy loan lawyer to molesting multiple little girls. He was a drug addict who kept it hidden pretty effectively.

[HunterHunted]

@Rap541 my point wasn't that Dennis is any of those things. My point was to refute the premise that Jason has no business being concerned who Bethenny brings into Bryn's life as an absolute rule. That's just fundamentally not true. If these people posed a danger to Bryn's safety and welfare, it's absolutely Jason's business. I never said that Dennis is one of those people. And vice versa if Jason brought someone into Bryn's life that was dangerous or had a history that might concern Bethenny. I was speaking in generalities.

24 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Now, Jason has raised the concern after the death and got shot down, probably because a)Dennis is dead, b) Jason never had any concerns about the man while the man was alive and c) there's really no indication Bryn was ever harmed or in danger and not even much evidence that Bryn was ever left alone with Dennis.

Jason didn't get shut down because Dennis was dead or because he never had any concerns while Dennis was alive. That makes no sense. Lots of inappropriate behavior or trauma is never discovered until much later and might continue to create issues well after the trauma has ended, as illustrated by Bethenny's own messed up relationship with Bernadette. Once again, I'm not saying that Dennis did anything. It's just a point that a brief inappropriate or traumatic event can scar someone for a lifetime. This is a generality and not a critique about Dennis and his interactions with Bryn. 

Jason got shot down because Bryn's earlier psychological evaluation in this custody case should reasonably have discovered anything problematic about Bethenny and Dennis' treatment of Bryn. It did not. Furthermore even after bringing up the alleged drug use, Jason never amended his custody petition to ask for full custody. These suggest that Jason's concerns were specious and motivated by pettiness.

[Happy Camper]

Jason can't win. He's a bad dad for standing by and not complaining about what happens in Bryn's life.

He's a bad dad for bringing concerns to court. 

His parents are also evil because they want to spend time with their grand daughter.

Thank goodness for Bethenny and her normal life.

Lucky Bryn.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Happy Camper

[OnceSane]

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[SunnyBeBe]

I read that this is day one of the custody trial in which Bethenny is asking the judge to give her sole custody.  Jason is asking that it be kept the same.  I wonder if that means there was a custody evaluation?  Hmmmm........Her attorney didn't mention it, so, I guess not. 

https://people.com/tv/bethenny-frankel-custody-trial-with-ex-jason-hoppy-begins/

[QuinnM]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I read that this is day one of the custody trial in which Bethenny is asking the judge to give her sole custody.  Jason is asking that it be kept the same.  I wonder if that means there was a custody evaluation?  Hmmmm........Her attorney didn't mention it, so, I guess not. 

Hoppy on the stand today

According to Hoppy he’s taking responsibility for this and now just wants to move on.  So he is saying this was true but that he is doing better.  Of course Brynn is 9 and so she’s had a chance to talk about how she’s doing.  

That means that the stories about the things he did to the dog, the things he said to Brynn about Bethenny, all that is true.  But he’s doing better.  Ugh

[SunnyBeBe]

I didn't realize that Bryn had testified.  I would think they would avoid questioning her about things.  It puts so much pressure on the child and judges do not like it.  Even questions of a child in chambers is not welcomed.   

[QuinnM]

Quote

I didn't realize that Bryn had testified.  I would think they would avoid questioning her about things.  It puts so much pressure on the child and judges do not like it.  Even questions of a child in chambers is not welcomed.   

She would have spoken to a court appointed shrink.  A lot of states appoint someone to look after the minor's best interest.  But in most cases they have just evaluated her outside of the court environment.

[Rap541]

I thought this was happening in April for some reason. <gets popcorn>