S01.E08: Fight Or Flight

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Recurring nightmares force Maggie to face a life-altering trauma from her past, while in real life, the group finally discovers that her cancer is back. Gary seeks help from an unexpected someone in order to make one final attempt at convincing Maggie to get treatment, but everything comes to a head at Regina and Delilah’s first tasting party at the new restaurant, leaving this circle of friends to wonder if things will ever be the same.

Promo:

 

Original air date: 11/28/18

Edited November 14, 2018 by saoirse

[Bean421]

I'm so confused about how this group of people is SO invested in Maggie, a woman they've known for <6 months, and can't spare a thought for Katherine. 

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Bean421 said:

I'm so confused about how this group of people is SO invested in Maggie, a woman they've known for <6 months, and can't spare a thought for Katherine. 

Based on the timeline of the show, I don't think it has even been 2 months, it makes no sense.  Even if Gary, who has apparently never been one for long term relationships, has somehow fallen head over heels for the first time in his life; it makes no sense that his friends, who are well aware of his past romantic history, would be so quick to embrace his new one night stand into their group.

[Scarlett45]

On 11/8/2018 at 3:09 PM, doodlebug said:

Based on the timeline of the show, I don't think it has even been 2 months, it makes no sense.  Even if Gary, who has apparently never been one for long term relationships, has somehow fallen head over heels for the first time in his life; it makes no sense that his friends, who are well aware of his past romantic history, would be so quick to embrace his new one night stand into their group.

I agree with you and @Bean421, the only reason I could think this would make ANY sense, is 1. After Gary’s cancer, seeing him connect with someone in such a way is touching to everyone and 2. John’s death right when she appeared makes them eager to form connections because you don’t know how long people will be around. 

[Aryanna]

Delilah's hair is just awful. I hate to be such a negative nelly but I just can't get over it. Is it short? Is it long? Did she forget to touch up her roots? Why is it so dry? Would it kill her to style it at all?

Edited November 28, 2018 by Aryanna

[Scarlett45]

For some reason my dvr never recorded this episode.

[topanga]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

For some reason my dvr never recorded this episode.

What’s your time zone. For the EST, it doesn’t air till tonight at 9

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, topanga said:

What’s your time zone. For the EST, it doesn’t air till tonight at 9

Oh it hasn’t aired yet?!!

 

I would’ve known that had I read the bottom of the first post. Duh that makes sense.

 

I’m Central Standard so I have a bit of time. Thank you!

[WhosThatGirl]

I’m kind of meh again on this show based on this episode. And now there really is no one I even remotely like. Even katherine. I think I’m supposed to like that she brought that guy to the opening because at the end she even admitted it was a bad thing to do, but.. eh. I’m just.. I don’t like any of these people. 

[ams1001]

Why the hell would anyone think "the woman you recently learned your husband cheated with would really like it if you came to support her in her new business venture" would be a selling point?

(I've just given up on trying to figure out how long it's been since all these events happened.)

[WhosThatGirl]

4 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Why the hell would anyone think "the woman you recently learned your husband cheated with would really like it if you came to support her in her new business venture" would be a selling point?

(I've just given up on trying to figure out how long it's been since all these events happened.)

Same. Also I’ve given up on trying to understand these people and how they chose to human in the world. 

[EverettO]

Is it just me or was Regina’s tasting menu totally dated?... A regular looking caprese salad, gourmet mac & cheese, chocolate ganache cake... nothing remotely interesting. 

[tennisgurl]

Seriously, why would anyone think that Katherine would want to hang out and support the business venture of the woman who had an affair with her husband?! Seriously, did I just imagine everyone finding out about the affair? Because they dont act like people that know about this enormous thing that happened with their friend who killed himself. 

Wow, Gary melting down at the party was next level cringy. I mean, he just stood there and screamed at his dying kind of girlfriend in front of all of these people, and he expects what? His friends to hold her down and force the medication into her body? And maybe dont try to use your friends recent (I assume?) death to guilt trip them into doing more, even though they have clearly above and beyond reaching out to this person they hardly know. 

Eddie might be a failure as a friend and as a husband, and even as a side piece, but he does seem to be a pretty good father. I mean, if you can ignore how he was going to leave his son behind to start a new family with his girlfriend. 

[WhosThatGirl]

40 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Seriously, why would anyone think that Katherine would want to hang out and support the business venture of the woman who had an affair with her husband?! Seriously, did I just imagine everyone finding out about the affair? Because they dont act like people that know about this enormous thing that happened with their friend who killed himself. 

Wow, Gary melting down at the party was next level cringy. I mean, he just stood there and screamed at his dying kind of girlfriend in front of all of these people, and he expects what? His friends to hold her down and force the medication into her body? And maybe dont try to use your friends recent (I assume?) death to guilt trip them into doing more, even though they have clearly above and beyond reaching out to this person they hardly know. 

Eddie might be a failure as a friend and as a husband, and even as a side piece, but he does seem to be a pretty good father. I mean, if you can ignore how he was going to leave his son behind to start a new family with his girlfriend. 

Yeah, none of these people act like actual real humans would. Like.. I get it’s a tv show but that outburst at the party. And Katherine telling that game S they left “so those are my friends “ wait... they’re her friends now? I mean... what?

[possibilities]

I thought Gary's realization that he doesn't really k now her was spot on. I wish they had actually meant for that to be real.

I thought Maggie being tormented by guilt over her brother was a cop out for the story. Her choosing not to do chemo because it will destroy the rest of her time, with bad odds of success, is a more interesting storyline for me. Oh well.

I like Eddie with Theo. But his guilt over the affair should not mean he's willing to surrender his other kid. I think that won't stick any more than Maggie's death wish over her brother. So... things are going to get super-messy.

I enjoyed Rome's reaction to Hunter.

I agree that none of the way these people behave makes sense. I think I''m deciding to just go with it, on the basis of: "what if people bonded and invested and were this committed? What if they acted like this no matter how messy and complicated?" It's kind of lazy writing, because they could have set it up to make more sense. But they didn't. So I've decided to go with the "what if?" scenario in order to see if they make anything out of the parts I'm actually interested in. It's one of the few shows that actually portrays parenting in a way I find worthwhile. It's weird that these people don't seem like adults at all to me, in general. Except as parents. Even Gary, who doesn't have kids of his own, is really good with kids.

The network probably thought they needed to put a lot of light and frothy stuff in the show, to balance it against all the death and dying issues. But it does make the show feel really weird, like it can't decide whether to be a soap opera or something deeper.

I don't believe that Maggie's friend from Chicago didn't know Chad was her brother and not "a guy" in a more random sense. More bad writing.

[WhosThatGirl]

23 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I thought Gary's realization that he doesn't really k now her was spot on. I wish they had actually meant for that to be real.

I thought Maggie being tormented by guilt over her brother was a cop out for the story. Her choosing not to do chemo because it will destroy the rest of her time, with bad odds of success, is a more interesting storyline for me. Oh well.

I like Eddie with Theo. But his guilt over the affair should not mean he's willing to surrender his other kid. I think that won't stick any more than Maggie's death wish over her brother. So... things are going to get super-messy.

I enjoyed Rome's reaction to Hunter.

I agree that none of the way these people behave makes sense. I think I''m deciding to just go with it, on the basis of: "what if people bonded and invested and were this committed? What if they acted like this no matter how messy and complicated?" It's kind of lazy writing, because they could have set it up to make more sense. But they didn't. So I've decided to go with the "what if?" scenario in order to see if they make anything out of the parts I'm actually interested in. It's one of the few shows that actually portrays parenting in a way I find worthwhile. It's weird that these people don't seem like adults at all to me, in general. Except as parents. Even Gary, who doesn't have kids of his own, is really good with kids.

The network probably thought they needed to put a lot of light and frothy stuff in the show, to balance it against all the death and dying issues. But it does make the show feel really weird, like it can't decide whether to be a soap opera or something deeper.

I don't believe that Maggie's friend from Chicago didn't know Chad was her brother and not "a guy" in a more random sense. More bad writing.

Yup. And if only he had said something like “none of us know her!” Because they don’t! They’ve know he for a few months(or is it weeks? The time frame is confusing) and all of a sudden all of these people love her so much and think she’s the best, that she gets invited to breakfast at Delliahs like two days after they met and things like that.

I mean I’m not saying that this doesn’t happen but it brings up the problem with this show from the beginning, that honestly none of these people really know each other, do they? The four guy friends become best friends because of being trapped in an elevator and John sprouting some knowledgeable quote about things happening for a reason but what really bonded them was.. going to hockey games? We honestly haven’t seen the deep connection they all seem to share. I mean John May have had one for all of them, hell he bought Romes wife a restaurant but it still seems like joke of these people are even talking to each other. And wasn’t Johns big death that turning point? It doesn’t seem to be working. Hell, Gary’s Out burst was pretty right on when I think about it. But how he has slept with shady secretary and so it’s all going to hell. Like I don’t get this show and it’s confusing me.

[debraran]

I felt sad watching the show tonight because what I thought it was in the beginning 2 shows is gone now. A whole show on an outside friends cancer and the melodrama of her deciding to die or fight. She's a psychologist but I guess we can't be our best patient. The investment in her is weird and I was almost jealous what takes most of us a long time or maybe never happens, she falls into in a few months, wonderful supportive friends and people going all over for her. She has terminal cancer and runs and does her normal routines, its just weird.

I want Jon back in some way,I want to know what Ashley knows, I want to see how Jon's kids are doing post father's death, I want the baby tripe to end, I want the hope of a great show to come back. I love Gary but this vehicle they gave him to ride is not the best writing. Please if it turns into a daytime soap opera at night, I"ll have to cross it off. It had so much promise.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I could not stop rolling my eyes at Eddie and his constant pity party. He had two women and now he has zero, but he is still chasing after both of them. Despite telling Katherine that she deserves to be happy and he's okay if she's dating some guy at work, the entire reason he showed up at her workplace was to see if he should sign a year long lease on an apartment because he doesn't know where they will be in a year. Seriously, dude? You still think there's a chance that she might take you back? Then in the next scene, he's kissing Delilah. A few hours later, he was jealously checking out Hunter at dinner. After dinner, he was staring longingly at Delilah as she rove away. He really wants to have his cake and eat it too.

Gary needs to slow his roll. It is not his place to make this decision for Maggie. Even if Gary and Maggie had been childhood sweethearts and known each other their whole lives and were now married, he STILL doesn't get to make this decision for her. Constantly trying to guilt trip her into doing what he wants is such a dick move.

When Katherine described the group of people to Hunter as "my friends," I just laughed. A more accurate description would be "my husband's friends, the woman who my husband had an affair with, and her husband's former employee."

Edited November 29, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Winston Wolfe]

I never got on the "This is Us" bus, and thought this show would be a good alternative.  The concept is great, but the writing truly sucks.  As other posters have noted, these characters behave in ways no normal humans would.  Other than the fact that most of them relate really well to children (a television rarity, IMO) they have very strange social skills and priorities.  And I have to admit, I had forgotten who Ashley/Shady Secretary was until coming over to these boards.  I actually thought she was a per-diem bartender, lol.

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When Katherine described the group of people to Hunter as "my friends," I just laughed. A more accurate description would be "my husband's friends, the woman who my husband had an affair with, and her husband's former employee ."

Was that weird, or what?  "Friends?"  Katherine, those people barely seemed to tolerate you because you were with Eddie.  If you have no other friend options outside of this circle, things might not be going well.

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I could not stop rolling my eyes at Eddie and his constant pity party. He had two women and now he has zero, but he is still chasing after both of them.

Eddie is a lost man-child.  His friends know this and don't seem to be able to bring themselves to tell him.  Other than how good he is as a father, Eddie doesn't really seem to have any other redeeming characteristics.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Winston Wolfe

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This week's music:

A+ for Lovesong by The Cure
A+ for Lovely Day by Bill Withers
F for whatever shitty cover of Lovesong they used at the end of the episode

Episode average = C+

[Clanstarling]

On 11/8/2018 at 1:09 PM, doodlebug said:

Based on the timeline of the show, I don't think it has even been 2 months, it makes no sense.  Even if Gary, who has apparently never been one for long term relationships, has somehow fallen head over heels for the first time in his life; it makes no sense that his friends, who are well aware of his past romantic history, would be so quick to embrace his new one night stand into their group.

The only way I can spin that is that she's the first one he's brought to a group gathering, so that makes her "special." On the other hand, given that he brought her to a funeral (that was the first time, right), it seems like he's pretty casual and thoughtless about who he brings.

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I enjoyed Rome's reaction to Hunter.

What was it? "A chocolate George Clooney with a caramel center of Ryan Gosling?" I loved it.

I've kind of had it with "passionate" sex scenes where people knock into furniture and break things (along with ripping off buttons, which is another standard, but not in this scene). Maybe I'm too practical, but I've had my share of moments that never involved destruction of my surroundings or clothing (disarray, to be sure).

[Lady Calypso]

So, it might be that I was just completely wiped out yesterday, but I only got ten minutes into the episode before I fell asleep. So I'll have to watch later tonight....but I did read up on the episode. Maybe it's good that I missed watching it live. It sounds....not great.

Listen; I want to like Maggie and I want to like Gary, as they seem to be more prominent than Rome/Regina/Ashley, but it's really really damn hard when you think about these two knowing each other for all of a month, a month and a half at most, and how irrational it all seems. Somehow, Gary is so head over heels with Maggie that he feels entitled to be angry at her dying. Yes, I understand he also has a personal stake in this, and that he almost died as well. But c'mon man, when your own friends are ok with respecting her wishes, maybe the problem is YOU. And yes, none of you know Maggie because, again, you've known her for maybe seven weeks and she came around right around Jon's suicide, so you met her under the worst and most emotional of circumstances.

And, of course, Gary sleeps with Ashley because his poor wittle feelings are hurt. Like, fuck off, Gary. Maggie's no picnic either, but I'm on her side way more than I'm on Gary's. Maybe I just have no heart. Maybe it also helps that I only know the actor by name, so I have no stakes to his character. 

Meanwhile Eddie...I love the actor but I am further hating on his character. I need either him or Delilah to just fuck off and die, at this point. They really are the worst of the worst. Eddie's ONLY redeeming quality is how great of a father that he is. I mean...if we ignore his very first intro scene with him planning to leave Katherine AND Theo for Delilah, he's been a fantastic father. All his other qualities suck ass. 

So, Maggie's most interesting part of her wanting to die with dignity goes out the window with a sob backstory about her feeling guilt over her brother's death. And now, cue the countdown to when she changes her mind and will want to LIVE. I mean, if she wants to live for herself, then great! But if they even try to present it as her also wanting to live for Gary, I will....I'll be pissed. 

Katherine, these people aren't your friends. I get that maybe she didn't want to awkwardly try to explain why she's hanging with Eddie and his friends and saying that they're her friends is easier, but it's still not true. Also, I guess Katherine doesn't have any other friends? That's just sad. This show has NO CLUE on what to do with Katherine, and even without watching this episode, it shows. Their biggest downfall was having Katherine confess that Jon was the only one who made her feel included in their group. I also don't give a shit about this Hunter fellow. I want Katherine happy, but I'm not so sure about Hunter. I'll have to actually watch the episode to find out if my feelings on him have changed since his first episode.

Do I even want to watch this episode? Not particularly, but I will so I can back up this snarky post.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah, again, this whole episode was strange. Also, they really like to make Katherine constantly feel bad with all these social gatherings. Like it seems like she wasn’t always that welcome at them and when came to them it was always like a “oh Hi Katherine” because she was eddies wife. And now she’s being strong armed into that stupid Friday night pizza thing and the opening of the restaurant. 

Also I wanted to like Maggie and Gary too. I hate that they had the cliche of him sleeping with Ashley. Seriously what is Ashley’s deal? Ugh. This show. It’s definitely a hate watch at this point but I just want to see all the cliches we can get in one episode because it really is like playing tv cliche bingo.

[funandfitpt]

I'm hoping with Gary sleeping with Ashley it leads him to find the secret envelope and then we will know what it's all about. Otherwise, blech.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

This was a poor episode, even for a show I've lowered my standards for. Maggie's whole back story was just...I don't know. Weak? Senseless? She's not doing treatment because she blames herself for her brother's death and thinks she doesn't deserve to live? But she's already done treatment so she cared enough about herself enough to do it once before.

Gary spends the whole episode trying to get Maggie to talk to him, even going over to her place and talking at her through the door with no answer back. But then, when he shows up at the "party," she tries to talk to him and he refuses saying "I'm only going to talk to you if you get treatment"? What a petulant baby! Even at that point, he is being completely immature and that isn't even mentioning the temper tantrum he threw in front of everyone!

Who the hell is this Ashley person? She goes to this incestuous party of people she's tangentially acquainted with on her birthday? ON HER BIRTHDAY? No one knows it's her birthday, so she can't be that close to them. Does she have no one to celebrate her birthday with? Does she just want to hook up with Gary that bad? 

The less said about Eddie and Delilah, the better.

I loved Katherine asking out her hot co-worker. I hated that she went to the stupid party with him. Doesn't she know the best revenge is a life well-lived? Go to a nice restaurant with him instead of wasting time with people she calls "friends" who clearly aren't really her friends.

Regina continues to have no story of her own, which I find unfortunate.

Rome should NOT be seeing Maggie as a therapist. Seriously, that is disturbing.

Edited November 29, 2018 by DoubleUTeeEff
grammar

[snarkylady]

Ok, so now we know about the brother Maggie couldn't save ....because she went to the movies.  And she wants to spare her parents the pain of having to pack up her stuff, but apparently not the pain of losing a second child.   Do her parents even now that the cancer has returned?   And maybe I missed it, but why isn't she getting treatment?

As for Gary, I think he wants her to get treatment because Jon wanted him to get treatment and Jon stood by him throughout his ordeal.  

When Maggie confronts Gary about sleeping with Ashley I truly hope he says "we were on a break". 

[cardigirl]

Well, I rather enjoyed the episode, after the show was off for two weeks.  I must have been the only one.  I loved that Katherine took the hunky lawyer to the tasting dinner.  Although, yeah, I would not be able to be in the same room with my cheating ex and his paramour.  Not without some blood flying.  LOL.  But I was surprised to find myself missing the show for some reason.

 

Still find Eddie and Delilah yucky.  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no!

And that's my review. 

[HazelEyes4325]

30 minutes ago, snarkylady said:

When Maggie confronts Gary about sleeping with Ashley I truly hope he says "we were on a break". 

 

I have yet to watch this episode (honestly, nothing is making it sound good), but I have discovered a little AMLT game.  At what point in the episode do I say, "Friends did it better."  I think @snarkylady gets a pre-emptive win for when this happens.

[possibilities]

I think it's funny how Gary and Eddie are in parallel right now. Eddie's supposedly crazy in love with Delilah, whose secret he is keeping (about the baby) despite great distress doing so causes to himself, while he tries to win back Katherine. Gary is supposedly crazy in love with Maggie, was keeping her secret despite great distress it caused to himself, and hooks up with Ashley at the first opportunity. It's like neither of them can handle being alone or without a secret and a lot of drama every second.

I do like that they finally advanced some of the plots.

[Aryanna]

Am I the only one for whom all these characters kinda run together? To me there kinda nondescript. You've got basic white guy, beard, black guy, dead guy's wife, new girlfriend, cheated on wife, black guy's wife, and their peripheral children.

[HazelEyes4325]

I am literally one minute into this show and I'm already pissed at the writing.  Sorry, no one is going to rent an apartment, especially a nice two bedroom one that is not going to be cheap, to someone without a job, no matter what their credit score is.  You are much more likely to get that apartment with a crap credit score and a good job.

41 more minutes of this?

ETA: At least one good thing has happened so far...we know it is has been 3 weeks since Jon's funeral (so 4-5 weeks from his death).

Edited November 29, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[Madding crowd]

I like the show but don't love it. I don't mind Eddie and Delilah as fictional characters although I wouldn't like them in real life. I watch shows like The Walking Dead and formerly, Breaking Bad and Sons of Anarchy, so I am OK with flawed characters provided they are interesting. I don't like Maggie because I don't believe these people would rally around her and be her best friends after knowing her for such a short time. I also liked it better when we thought she was refusing treatment because it is hopeless rather than because her brother died.

The biggest problem I have with the show is it is trying to be a version of This is Us combined with The Big Chill, but neither concept works here. In the Big Chill, everything took place in one weekend and it was a given that these people wouldn't hang out every day. In This is Us, they are all part of a family so it makes sense. Here it makes zero sense that Maggie would be part of the in group, Katherine would have any interest in coming to Deliah and Regina's tasting party, and Ashley would have anything to do with the group based on what we have seen. I never got the idea Ashely was a close family friend and she should be looking for another job not skulking around. Then again, I don't understand why John would buy a restaurant for someone and why his wife and everyone else wouldn't question it. Do normal people just buy a business for a friend's wife to run? I am still watching but not sure this show is going to be able to sustain any story line unless they go with some kind of mystery involving John's death. 

[HazelEyes4325]

Well, I finished that.  It was, without question, the most disappointing episode of the season so far.  I'm actually glad that I came here and read the comments beforehand because I don't think I could have made it through this episode if I hadn't had fair warning.

 First, a general comment about the episode.  I see "writing" as being two-pronged.  On one hand, there is the actual dialogue the characters say.  On the other, there is the story crafting, how all the pieces fit together--not just in the episode but in the overarching arc of the show.  I've complained about the story crafting here from probably the first episode (and let's just say this episode didn't change my feelings), but I've always felt the dialogue was quite good.  This is the first episode where the dialogue really seemed subpar.  I wasn't prepared for how bad it was and it actually surprised me.  I didn't pay attention to who wrote this, but it was definitely a huge red flag for the series.  If it was Nash, I'm especially worried.  It's only episode 8, we're not even halfway through the first season, and we already have a dud this bad.

Okay, my first big specific problem...the whole Maggie/Chad storyline was just one big clunk of sloppy writing.  I don't even think it accomplished what I think Nash intended, to give Maggie some closure so she would fight her cancer.  It was like 2+3 = 72.  It was both out of place and incredibly cliche and it was nothing but a huge eye roll to me.  I think I have a new rule...a show can have flashbacks OR prophetic dreams, but not both.

I am more and more frustrated with how Rome and Regina are treated in this show.  They are the two most likable characters and their storyline is the one that fits best in the story of the show yet, once again, they are relegated to being the black best friends.  It's not like the actors aren't strong--Malco is as strong as both Giuntoli and Roday and Moses is, by far, the strongest actress there.  Yet, there they are--on the sidelines.  And it drives me bonkers because I just want MORE OF THEM!  And I get...Eddie and Delilah.

Speaking of which, at least we got confirmation that Delilah is a "French Girl."  Honestly, her accent has never bothered me, but I'm glad we at least have an explanation for it.  What bothers me is that she cannot deliver a line to save her life.  When I don't understand what she is saying, it isn't because of her accent.  It's because her delivery makes absolutely no sense.  I haven't watched Modern Family for a few seasons, but never in all the time when I did watch it did I have trouble understanding Sophia Vergara (except when the joke was that you couldn't understand her, but that's different).  Vergara has a much, much stronger accent, and yet we can understand her.  Szostak being French does not excuse the fact that she can't act her way out of a paper bag.

There was a snippet that perplexed me.  When Delilah and Eddie are having their makeout session (eye roll), the camera cuts to Delilah's hand where she is wearing her wedding ring.  That was sort of Nash's bat signal that he's trying to foreshadow, but what?  I think there are 2 options.  The first is that Delilah is a woman torn between two loves, in which case fuck her and fuck the horse she rode in on.  I'm not buying it, I have no interest in watching it, and it will just make me hate her even more

The other option is that maybe Nash is trying to make her a manipulative narcissist which would be...surprising.  If he had been planning to do this the whole time, he hasn't been exactly successful because it really felt like he was trying to make us love her (it didn't work).  Now, it could also be that he's trying to change boats in the middle of the stream, which I guess could work.  Even if it didn't work, it would at least be better than what we have now.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the baby ends up being Jon's after all.  Sorry, but she claims to have lied about the paternity once and she hasn't made any move to actually verify that Eddie is the father.   I also wouldn't be surprised if it were Eddie's baby, because I have come to expect the saccharine and trite from this show.

I realized that I have a really big problem with Katherine.  Katherine is a devoted working mother who is going through a rough patch in her life.  She's also a unicorn.  She's an amazing creature that just doesn't exist.  I get that in works of fiction there are characters who can only exist in that work.  Here, Eddie would be an example.  This guy probably still needs help wiping his own ass and he would never be able to exist in the real world.  But he does here because of these particular characters, who they are and how they enable his existence.  The thing is that Katherine, at least how she has been portrayed so far, cannot exist in this world.  Everyone hated her, she was toxic, Eddie should leave her!  Then her estranged husband's ex-ish lover invites him to a party?  And she comes?  And everyone is her friend?  Nope.  This just doesn't work--either in reality or in this show.  To be fair, this problem really started the moment she agreed to have pizza, but it is just so incredibly unbelievable that it is ruining what would otherwise be a saving grace character for this show.

Now, why was Ashley at the party?  Well, to be there for Gary, of course.  Which actually doesn't make sense and is yet another example of crap story crafting.  But here's the thing, I know that the Gary and Ashley thing is just a hookup and I am not, in any way, "shipping" them, but it actually makes more sense than most anything else in the show.  Honestly, Gary hooking up with Ashley is far easier for me to buy than Gary being in a relationship with Maggie.  I actually found Gary to be far more genuine in this episode than he has been in any other.  I'm not saying that I liked him here (I really wanted Eddie to knock him down a few notches for constantly being on his case but that was...over pretty quickly and then they were friends again), but he seemed to be a more fleshed out character.

I guess on the good side is that I couldn't find a Friends did it better scene?

Edited November 29, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[tennisgurl]

“AND THATS WHY YOU SHOULDNT GO TO THE MOVIES WITHOUT CHECKING IN WITH YOUR FAMILY!!!” What the hell? I kept expecting J. Walter Weatherman to throw an arm into the shot. 

[HazelEyes4325]

15 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I guess on the good side is that I couldn't find a Friends did it better scene?

1

Yeah, I'm the weird person who quotes myself.  

But I found the Friends moment.  Gary and Eddie are essentially Chandler and Joey.  The scene with Gary telling Eddie that he can stay on his couch as long as he wants does remind me of a scene I swear exists where Chandler asks Joey to move back in with him after Joey has the (first) rise and fall of his soap career.

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean at least they aren’t having ashley drop by with things she was supposed to do for Jon, like the coffee, and then the dry cleaning. I always wondered how they were going to have her always around after a while. 

And yeah.. as for what I said earlier, for my tv bingo, she has a few blocks she can fill, she was having an affair with Jon, she stole money from him. She’s already hit the bingo block by sleeping with Gary (a character makes a terrible mistake by sleeping with somebody because they’re hurt and love{also love.. he’s known Maggie for like a month} but I’m not sure if they hit the big block on that because I couldn’t tell if they were drunk, Gary seemed coherent enough).

[nexxie]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think it's funny how Gary and Eddie are in parallel right now. Eddie's supposedly crazy in love with Delilah, whose secret he is keeping (about the baby) despite great distress doing so causes to himself, while he tries to win back Katherine. Gary is supposedly crazy in love with Maggie, was keeping her secret despite great distress it caused to himself, and hooks up with Ashley at the first opportunity. It's like neither of them can handle being alone or without a secret and a lot of drama every second.

I do like that they finally advanced some of the plots.

Eddie doesn’t seem to want to win back Katherine imo, he just wants to be kind.

[HazelEyes4325]

9 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Eddie doesn’t seem to want to win back Katherine imo, he just wants to be kind.

I don't think it is a matter of Eddie wanting to win Katherine or even Delilah back.  I think he just realizes he can't function on his own.  I really don't understand why a one-year lease is such an obstacle.   If he has to leave early he can either break the lease or sublet.  

But I do think he realizes on some level that he needs someone.  It doesn't matter who it is--Katherine, Delilah, or Gary.  Honestly, Gary is probably the best one for him, even if Gary treats more like a punching bag than a friend.

What I would like to see is the Eddie and Delilah mess over and done with, Eddie working out co-parenting with Katherine, and then Eddie on his own.  As long as he's tied to someone else (possibly even Gary), he's not going to change and there will be no character growth for him.

[nexxie]

12 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I don't think it is a matter of Eddie wanting to win Katherine or even Delilah back.  I think he just realizes he can't function on his own.  I really don't understand why a one-year lease is such an obstacle.   If he has to leave early he can either break the lease or sublet.  

But I do think he realizes on some level that he needs someone.  It doesn't matter who it is--Katherine, Delilah, or Gary.  Honestly, Gary is probably the best one for him, even if Gary treats more like a punching bag than a friend.

What I would like to see is the Eddie and Delilah mess over and done with, Eddie working out co-parenting with Katherine, and then Eddie on his own.  As long as he's tied to someone else (possibly even Gary), he's not going to change and there will be no character growth for him.

I think Eddie really wants to be with Delilah, and she wants to be with him.

Prediction: After Ashley spills the beans and everyone finds out that John wasn’t all that, Delilah will allow herself to be with Eddie and fess up about the baby.

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

I think Eddie really wants to be with Delilah, and she wants to be with him.

Prediction: After Ashley spills the beans and everyone finds out that John wasn’t all that, Delilah will allow herself to be with Eddie and fess up about the baby.

 

Moving my response to the speculation thread...

Edited November 29, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[Trillian]

16 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah, none of these people act like actual real humans would. Like.. I get it’s a tv show but that outburst at the party. And Katherine telling that game S they left “so those are my friends “ wait... they’re her friends now? I mean... what?

Actually, I was thinking, while watching, how much they did remind me of real actual humans. Except those real actual humans were my group of friends in undergrad, ages 18-22.  Where, in that “you’ve slept with everyone the person you’ve slept with has slept with” way, we’d all slept with each other and were all harbouring varying degrees of jealousy and resentment and general weirdness, but it never dawned on us that we didn’t have to hang out together in a big incestuous group.  In my experience, mature adults don’t tend to hang out in large groups on a regular basis and, where a couple has broken up, only one party gets custody of the friends.  Why these people do it is rather inexplicable. I guess one could say Jon’s death brought them together a la Big Chill, but that movie worked because long distances forced them together for a whole weekend.  I guess these folk just like the drama of being all together. 

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Well, I rather enjoyed the episode, after the show was off for two weeks.  I must have been the only one.  I loved that Katherine took the hunky lawyer to the tasting dinner.  Although, yeah, I would not be able to be in the same room with my cheating ex and his paramour.  Not without some blood flying.  LOL.  But I was surprised to find myself missing the show for some reason.

You’re not the only one who liked it. It’s fun.

[Bliss]

Maggie. Allison Miller in real life, I think. Every time I saw her, something was nagging at me... she reminded me of someone. This episode, it hit me - she looks a lot like Linda Purl when she was that age and I wondered if she might be her daughter. Nope. (Those of you who watched Happy Days back in the good ol' daze might remember Linda.)

Another observation: I cannot believe how big Eddie's feet are. There was a scene in which he's on the phone and walks by... and I had to rewind and rewatch those feet walking by... in what looked like size 18 shoes. Clown shoes. LOL

[sadie]

We’re on episode 8 and they have not moved the “why Jon killed himself and what is his big secret” is AT ALL. I don’t mind good pacing, they didn’t need to explain it in episode 2 but the story they are telling could literally be the same story with or without his death. No flashbacks, all Ashley does is look pretty (the actress is very pretty) and Jon only gets mentioned every few episodes even though in story time it’s only been like 3 weeks since he killed himself?. This guy was the center of their universe, kills himself unexpectantly and he’s just a foot note to all this high school melodrama. I mourned longer when my dog died than these people seem to be over him.

It’s almost liked the creators thought it was a cool visual for episode 1 of him walking off the edge of his building and every promo we saw for two months was that but then, meh, what they really wanted was some Thirtysomething drama with a bunch of ridiculous storylines played by attractive people so maybe the viewers won’t notice. Ugh.  

[debraran]

1 hour ago, sadie said:

We’re on episode 8 and they have not moved the “why Jon killed himself and what is his big secret” is AT ALL. I don’t mind good pacing, they didn’t need to explain it in episode 2 but the story they are telling could literally be the same story with or without his death. No flashbacks, all Ashley does is look pretty (the actress is very pretty) and Jon only gets mentioned every few episodes even though in story time it’s only been like 3 weeks since he killed himself?. This guy was the center of their universe, kills himself unexpectantly and he’s just a foot note to all this high school melodrama. I mourned longer when my dog died than these people seem to be over him.

It’s almost liked the creators thought it was a cool visual for episode 1 of him walking off the edge of his building and every promo we saw for two months was that but then, meh, what they really wanted was some Thirtysomething drama with a bunch of ridiculous storylines played by attractive people so maybe the viewers won’t notice. Ugh.  

Yes, Thirtysomething had cancer too.  Isn't it odd, he jumps off a roof, very messy way to die, they have a funeral, then it's "life goes on" There is NO talk of finances except Deliah is perplexed why things are denied on credit. There is no meeting with lawyer or financial planner> No let me talk to someone about my husband's finances and she's pregnant too. Beyond odd. Are the writers on vacation?

And I agree, re Maggie, the brother thing is insulting to any viewer. She went through treatment before, there is no reason to use him as a reason to not do it again. Chemo maybe but not her brother. She is counseling others??

Edited November 30, 2018 by debraran

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

But she's already done treatment so she cared enough about herself enough to do it once before.

And apparently doesn't care enough about her parents to at least try to not let them lose two kids... (my cousin's ex-mother-in-law has buried her husband and both of her (adult) kids; the second one just last year. I can't imagine how that feels. At least her husband was at an age where it's not totally unexpected; her kids, not so much).

 

7 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Rome should NOT be seeing Maggie as a therapist. Seriously, that is disturbing.

Ugh. She told him why, professionally-speaking, she can't be his therapist (multiple times, even)...and he's like, give me one good reason! She DID, dumbass! It shouldn't take "I'm dying" for him to accept that.

 

4 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

ETA: At least one good thing has happened so far...we know it is has been 3 weeks since Jon's funeral (so 4-5 weeks from his death).

Only three weeks? I missed that...it all makes even less sense, then.

And hey, did anyone else catch the throwaway line from Delilah confirming that she is, in fact, French? (Something about being French and not being allowed to have wine and soft cheese.) She also mentioned insurance money, so I guess she's dealt with some of the financial stuff off screen, at least. Maybe the writers have been reading the comments…

[HazelEyes4325]

13 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Ugh. She told him why, professionally-speaking, she can't be his therapist (multiple times, even)...and he's like, give me one good reason! She DID, dumbass! It shouldn't take "I'm dying" for him to accept that.

 

Also, his official psychologist would not be seeing him if he knew (and it sounds like he does) that Rome was unofficially seeing Maggie as a therapist.  My mother was a mental health professional and everything involving Rome/therapy/Maggie is so wildly unethical that she would be doing cartwheels in her urn.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah. Maggie and her reasons don’t make sense. She doesn’t want her parents to lose another child. Uh. Well they’re going to because you aren’t getting treatment? Huh? What is this logic? Is it logic? 

[shouldbedancing]

Pretty sure I find everyone on this show insufferable.

[Guest]

This entire episode is one big WTF for me. None of this makes any sense.

As they are preparing for the tasting it is mentioned the loan for the restaurant still as not been approved. How on earth did they finish the renovations without the loan? Why is no one concerned about this? 

Eddie being able to get an apartment without a job is bad enough but for them to actual have the landlord say that she didn’t care if he has a job is just insulting to the viewers. 

I could not stand Rome and Regina for trying to pressure Maggie into being Rome’s therapist. Why is it that the majority of Maggie’s scenes involve people trying to convince her to do things? For a therapist Maggie as terrible at setting and maintaining boundaries.

Eddie yo-yoing between Delilah and Katherine just highlights how despicable he is. 

Why the hell is Regina trying to convince Katherine to go to the tasting? Why the hell does Katherine go? Why is Katherine calling these people her friends?

Oh look, Gary’s being a dick again. (I thought this repeatedly during the episode) 

Ashley: “We need to fight for our friends.” Me: Why are you even here and maybe you should let your “friend” know why her husband killed himself.

Why couldn’t they have left Maggie’s decision be the result of her weighing the odds and making the best decision for her? Not only is this much less interesting it also makes no sense after already going through treatment once. This show always has to back away from the bold choice that might actually be interesting. 

Every scene makes me feel like I am in that esurance commercial, “That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works.”

I am now actively rooting for Eddie, Delilah, Gary and Maggie disappear without a trace so the show can go forward with Rome, Regina and Katherine.

Somehow, in spite of all of that, I still want to like this stupid show. There’s is so much potential that is just squandered week after week. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Guest

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, Dani said:

Somehow, in spite of all of that, I still want to like this stupid show. There’s is so much potential that is just squandered week after week. 

 

Ugh...this is exactly where I am.  This show is bad...and it is getting worse with each episode.  Yet, I still desperately want to like it!  I don't hate-watch, but I will put myself in the position of watching the show and being pissed off at it (and feeling frustrated afterward).  I agree that there is potential..and I also agree that a bit of that potential dies each week.