S03.E06: Kamsahamnida

[himela]

I never thought I'd say this but this show has started to become overly not believable and tiring. It is like I watch the same episode over and over again and only the stories change. The constant "go from Kate to Kevin, then to Rebecca 20 years earlier, then to Jack 40 years earlier, back to now" etc, it becomes annoying.

[Christina87]

2 hours ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

I don’t expect detailed attention to financial issues, but when a show with a realistic setting purports to resonate with viewers’ real life feelings, I expect characters to experience realistic consequences for their actions.  TIU fails on this point fairly consistently, but right now it’s going overboard with Randall.  A family losing both primary sources of income would realistically be concerned about finances.  Even if their investments generate enough income to support the household, they would realistically be concerned about their long-term wellbeing, meeting retirement goals, cutting back on spending to conserve.  

But the lack of realism in Randall and Beth’s family finances is nothing compared to the unreality in the adoption of Deja.  A kid who experienced that much trauma doesn’t get it out of her system with one windshield smash.  A real life Deja would need substantial counseling and support from her new family, which Randall can’t believably provide when his time and energy are focused on his quixotic campaign for an out-of-state office.

And then there’s the dilapidated low-rent apartment building he’s operating as a one-man housing agency.  Two-men when Kevin is in town.  

This is not to say that Kevin and Kate’s stories are entirely believable.  I will see to them in another episode’s post.

Right!!! I lost a job recently (wanted to quit anyway AND my program got cut...so I'm at least emotionally happy to be gone, unlike Beth), and thank god I'm a saver, but I have definitely cut back! I saved enough money in my job to be fine for a while, and my family could help me if the job search takes longer than expected. Even friends have offered to help if they had so, so I am very, very fortunate in that regard! That being said, I am absolutely not buying ANYTHING but food and household essentials. I was out with a friend the other day and saw a lovely coat I could afford, but I thought, "I'll buy it when I get a job. I might need that money later, and I wouldn't be wearing the coat as much until I got a job anyway." I used to love going to the mall, but it's a catch 22: now I have the time, but don't want to spend the money. I could spend more if I wanted to and realistically be okay, but I want to err on the side of caution.

That's kind of what I would like to hear from Randall and Beth too; they hopefully wouldn't get down to the food only level (I'd hate for the girls to have to quit their activities, for example, and go without clothes they need!), but I can't imagine not knowing how long you will be out of work (Beth) or even if returning to your current level of work / occupation is even possible (Randall), and spending like there's no tomorrow! Just a throwaway line like, "I'm going to cancel the country club membership; ok, babe?" or "aren't we lucky we invested in ____ and can continue this lifestyle for at least a couple years?" would make it so much more realistic. Basically, this show is realistic fiction, and a large number of people in the audience have lost jobs before and are familiar with tightening the belt even in the best of circumstances! Heck, even tell us they won the lottery a few years ago! ? Stranger things have happened. I had a friend who fell off an amusement park ride as a kid, sued the park, and used that money to put himself through college. Just give us something, even if it's a crazy explanation!

[qtpye]

10 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

Right!!! I lost a job recently (wanted to quit anyway AND my program got cut...so I'm at least emotionally happy to be gone, unlike Beth), and thank god I'm a saver, but I have definitely cut back! I saved enough money in my job to be fine for a while, and my family could help me if the job search takes longer than expected. Even friends have offered to help if they had so, so I am very, very fortunate in that regard! That being said, I am absolutely not buying ANYTHING but food and household essentials. I was out with a friend the other day and saw a lovely coat I could afford, but I thought, "I'll buy it when I get a job. I might need that money later, and I wouldn't be wearing the coat as much until I got a job anyway." I used to love going to the mall, but it's a catch 22: now I have the time, but don't want to spend the money. I could spend more if I wanted to and realistically be okay, but I want to err on the side of caution.

That's kind of what I would like to hear from Randall and Beth too; they hopefully wouldn't get down to the food only level (I'd hate for the girls to have to quit their activities, for example, and go without clothes they need!), but I can't imagine not knowing how long you will be out of work (Beth) or even if returning to your current level of work / occupation is even possible (Randall), and spending like there's no tomorrow! Just a throwaway line like, "I'm going to cancel the country club membership; ok, babe?" or "aren't we lucky we invested in ____ and can continue this lifestyle for at least a couple years?" would make it so much more realistic. Basically, this show is realistic fiction, and a large number of people in the audience have lost jobs before and are familiar with tightening the belt even in the best of circumstances! Heck, even tell us they won the lottery a few years ago! ? Stranger things have happened. I had a friend who fell off an amusement park ride as a kid, sued the park, and used that money to put himself through college. Just give us something, even if it's a crazy explanation!

Also, if their money is invested it does not mean that there can never be trouble. I knew some trust fund kids who actually had to work because their funds were not performing well during the recession. I have heard people in the financial sector make a ton of money but just a little nod to what is going on would make a huge difference for most of the audience to relate better to the story. Also, how are Kate and Toby supporting themselves if  Toby cannot even get out of bed to get dressed? Is he working from home (not unusual in the IT field)? These small things help make the story more fleshed out.

Randall is running an expensive political campaign, a run-down housing complex that is probably a money pit. living in an expensive as hell area called Alpine, NJ, and flying across country on a whim. As I have said, just the property tax on his house would be like a second mortgage.

[saber5055]

On 11/1/2018 at 1:11 AM, izabella said:

Maybe she should do something for herself first, not involving any Pearsons, like a vacation at the beach, or a spa retreat, where she can take a deep breath and refresh.

Except one or more Pearsons would show up and ruin her alone time.

[Christina87]

7 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Also, if their money is invested it does not mean that there can never be trouble. I knew some trust fund kids who actually had to work because their funds were not performing well during the recession. I have heard people in the financial sector make a ton of money but just a little nod to what is going on would make a huge difference for most of the audience to relate better to the story. Also, how are Kate and Toby supporting themselves if  Toby cannot even get out of bed to get dressed? Is he working from home (not unusual in the IT field)? These small things help make the story more fleshed out.

Randall is running an expensive political campaign, a run-down housing complex that is probably a money pit. living in an expensive as hell area called Alpine, NJ, and flying across country on a whim. As I have said, just the property tax on his house would be like a second mortgage.

Yes!!! I agree with Kate and Toby too. I just assumed Toby had a decent job, and that Kate was working somewhere, until she said she had to go to work and it was a singing thing. Seriously? That's something most people do on the side, on top of their paying job. If she wants to be a housewife who sings on the side, that is fine, but it's silly to act like she has a legitimate career. I could buy Toby working a decent job until the depression got this bad; first of all, he had to take days off for the IVF, so you wouldn't think he'd have weeks of sick leave to spend in bed, nor would his employer be happy with all this! Plus, he is always seen out and about in the middle of the day. A throwaway line would work here too, like a lighthearted, "well, Kate, I need to get back to work today! I'll be in the home office if you need me. Someone's gotta pay for this baby on the way!" If the show made no attempt to be realistic, this wouldn't bother me, but it does try in other ways. Then we see Kevin living the most minimalist life of all, when he would realistically be set! He should be the one buying a nice house and financing expensive things!

[saber5055]

21 hours ago, maddie965 said:

I also think being a mother can be very positive for her. Finally, she will stop being Katie girl and become a real woman. She'll stop obsessing about her needs and will concentrate on the needs of a child.

LOL. Maybe. But I doubt it. Having a child is also a sure-fire way to save a failing marriage, right? Sure. More likely I see her complaining about her lack of sleep and the kid being demanding and her not having a life of her own and Toby not being there when a poop diaper needs to be changed. For the next 18 years if this show lasts that long.

[lucindabelle]

I dont know, maybe it's because I've lived around a lot of super rich people in my life, but I totally buy they were making several mill a year and are not living anywhere near their means. I don't need a line to tell me that.

 

I also think it will be great for Beth to be campaign manager because GETTING THINGS DONE and seeing how good she is at it will bring her CONFIDENCE back, without which she can't interview well. She hasn't gone on an interview in years, and her confidence has got to have taken a HUGE dive with that layoff right after she spent a Saturday making a proposal kick butt.

[maddie965]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

LOL. Maybe. But I doubt it. Having a child is also a sure-fire way to save a failing marriage, right? Sure. More likely I see her complaining about her lack of sleep and the kid being demanding and her not having a life of her own and Toby not being there when a poop diaper needs to be changed. For the next 18 years if this show lasts that long.

Having a child to save a failing marriage is a terrible idea, and I would never advocate that. Nor am I saying that having a child will save Kate. But yes, motherhood changes people. Not always. But when it does, it's powerful. Also, maybe we should remember that, for a long time, Kate took care of Kevin. So yes, she's capable of taking care of another person. Of course, I do love Kate, even with all her flaws, so I might have a different perspective on the character. 

[saber5055]

28 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

Also, maybe we should remember that, for a long time, Kate took care of Kevin. So yes, she's capable of taking care of another person.

Being an actor's personal assistant is pretty different than taking care of a crying, hungry, cranky, pooping, peeing, screaming newborn that isn't leaving your house anytime soon. I'd take care of Kevin all day (and I don't mean that in a gross way, I mean as an assistant) before I'd take care of any newborn for five minutes. YMMV, of course.

[maddie965]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

Being an actor's personal assistant is pretty different than taking care of a crying, hungry, cranky, pooping, peeing, screaming newborn that isn't leaving your house anytime soon. I'd take care of Kevin all day (and I don't mean that in a gross way, I mean as an assistant) before I'd take care of any newborn for five minutes. YMMV, of course.

What I'm saying is that Kate wasn't always painted as a selfish bitch by the writers. She used to be lovely, and caring, and adorable. For me, of course. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Pallas]

Randall and Beth chose well by buying in Alpine -- in one sense, anyway. Alpine's huge homes and estates, along with their high average property values, still translate to one of the lowest tax rates in the state. The Pearson home is lovely and/but not vast or luxe; $2 million in value might be a generous assessment, given its lack of flow...and at a $2 million assessment, their 2017 local taxes were $16K.  

Only twenty years ago, Alpine had no mailman to tear up about William, or deliver his postcard from Memphis. Here's the piece the Times wrote then about this formerly secret enclave, this Bergendoon, whose wonders are now broadcast to the world. This Is Us may yet do for Alpine what it did for Crock Pots. No wonder Philly's starting to look good. 

[buckboard]

I don't get all the criticism of the scene in the church, especially since it is a black church.  Every election cycle you see candidates making appearances in black churches, from local to presidential races.  

In the fine tradition of politics in the church, Randall attended the service so the congregants would get to know him.  They already knew the councilman, who has been their neighbor and representative for years.  Their church is more than just a place of worship.  It is a neighborhood gathering place.  The councilman probably has frequently spoken from the pulpit to his constituents.  Of course he would take advantage of the opportunity to point out to his neighbors that Randall is an outsider.  

[Kira53]

20 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

This is what I was looking for. Have a scene where they're sitting there with checkbooks and saying "oh..let's use the x account bc y account is for the kid's expenses" something like that. Ridiculous $ I can accept but show us something to indicate one way or other. Deja destroying the Mercedes with a baseball bat was glossed over entirely and Randall was so proud he bought it for cash. Show us the body shop and a sharp exhale when he hears the cost of repair . It's ok if he still loves the child anyway- kids are more important than $ and possessions but we want to see more than speechifying.

They aren't going to show any of the above scenes because they don't have money problems!  Why can't people get that?

8 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

I dont know, maybe it's because I've lived around a lot of super rich people in my life, but I totally buy they were making several mill a year and are not living anywhere near their means. I don't need a line to tell me that.

 

I also think it will be great for Beth to be campaign manager because GETTING THINGS DONE and seeing how good she is at it will bring her CONFIDENCE back, without which she can't interview well. She hasn't gone on an interview in years, and her confidence has got to have taken a HUGE dive with that layoff right after she spent a Saturday making a proposal kick butt.

I also don't need a line to tell me that either.  I don't know why people can't acknowledge Randall and Beth as members of the super-rich.  I know a few of them and they live very well but I know they are living below their means and they rarely talk about money.  Randall's throwaway line about buying the $100,000 car for cash was supposed to let us know that his finances are not like our finances.  When he quit his job there were no talks about money.  Many entertainers and athletes often spend much of their money; investment professionals and corporate top earners accumulate corporate stock as part of their yearly earnings and they know how to invest and structure their earnings and savings.  Beth lost her job and there were no talks about money because they have it like that.  

I do believe that Beth will be great at helping the campaign and she will get her mojo back through her efforts.  They will get spend quality time together as a team.  The writers had Beth fired so we can see her do her "Black Girl Magic" on the campaign.  Urban Planning isn't that interesting to TV viewers so she needed a new job.  I hope they (Beth) can complete directing the renovations on the building.  I assume that the didn't use their money to buy the building, but used other people's money (mortgages) to fund their investment and the renovations.  Randall and Kevin worked on the building so the guys could take off their shirts (for us) and bond to move the narrative along.  It's just a story anyway.  I suspend disbelief and try to enjoy the show.  I'm looking forward to Kevin in Vietnam.

Kevin and Beth cousin have no chemistry.  I hope they can get some on this trip.

[bros402]

On 11/1/2018 at 1:34 PM, qtpye said:

I think what the job represents to Beth is that is something about herself. Everything else is about her family and the job is what she identifies with as being "about her". Working for Randall is not going to solve her problem.

 

In New Jersey, the property taxes for a good school district can cost a fortune. I know people in Princeton who pay close to 100K in property taxes, each year.

They did such a good job in casting young Kate and Randall. It is like they just went with "generic good-looking blonde kid" for Kevin. Teenage Kevin creeps me out where I almost can't help but loving adult Kevin, even when he is a jerk.

In my town in Central Jersey, no fancy district, people pay 10k+ in property taxes. Let's see what the average house is in Alpine - Zillow estimates it at at staggering $2,517,600!. In 2017, an almost 21 million dollar home in Alpine had $155,311.38 in property taxes! 

 

However, according to this ranking, the average property tax in Alpine is $20,910. So let's say at most, Randall and Beth pay $40,000. It also looks like they are in a HOA community, so those fees could be like 20k a year.

[Trillium]

8 hours ago, Kira53 said:

They aren't going to show any of the above scenes because they don't have money problems!  Why can't people get that?

I also don't need a line to tell me that either.  I don't know why people can't acknowledge Randall and Beth as members of the super-rich.  I know a few of them and they live very well but I know they are living below their means and they rarely talk about money.  Randall's throwaway line about buying the $100,000 car for cash was supposed to let us know that his finances are not like our finances.  When he quit his job there were no talks about money.  Many entertainers and athletes often spend much of their money; investment professionals and corporate top earners accumulate corporate stock as part of their yearly earnings and they know how to invest and structure their earnings and savings.  Beth lost her job and there were no talks about money because they have it like that.  

 

This.  Randall knows how to invest money, it was his job. It’s not much of a stretch to think they had a few million in investments and they could do something like municipal bonds for income (municipal bonds can be federal income tax free and depending on the state, also state income tax free). If they put $1M in that, even a conservative yield of 2% could generate $240,000 in yearly income. 

[chocolatine]

When Beth was psyching herself up for her job interview, she said something about trying to get six-figure offer. According to PayScale, the high end of an urban planner's salary range is $80k, so by "six figures" Beth probably meant $100k - any more than that would be a stretch for her profession. If Randall and Beth were super-rich, they would have at least eight figures worth of assets, so I doubt $100k a year would even be worth mentioning. Beth and Randall might not be in any immediate trouble, but as I've said before, it's about the long-term sustainability of their lifestyle. Money is a finite resource which tends to run out unless it's replenished on a regular basis. Assuming they want to stay in the good school district until Annie graduates high school, send all three girls to college, and retire at a reasonable age, they're going to have to discuss their finances sooner or later.

[Welp]

I wish Randall's storyline was a nuanced exploration of intraracial class tensions that ended with him 1) losing the election and 2) grappling with his savior complex. Now that Beth's onboard, I won't hold my breath.

[ams1001]

On 11/1/2018 at 7:10 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

If Toby has been on anti depressants for a long time, he was on them when he met Kate but he also enjoyed more than a few cocktails along the way, I thought drinking while on those sort of meds was a real no no. 

I was on a similar drug and had the occasional drink without issue (though I didn't try it until after at least a few months, when I had been side-effect free for a while, on a night when I wasn't driving, just in case it hit me differently than usual), but I've never been a big drinker to begin with. Alcohol can increase side effects of the drugs, but if you've been on them for a while and no longer experience side effects, the occasional drink is probably okay. (Some meds can have more significant interactions than others, of course, and I am not a doctor.)

That's aside from the fact that alcohol itself is a depressant, so it's kind of an anti-anti-depressant if you're on depression meds. Someone at high risk of alcohol abuse should also probably avoid drinking with meds. Someone like me, who is (apparently) at low risk of abusing alcohol, and also rarely drinks anyway (even without anything else in my system, drunk me is just a tired, sleepy me, which is no fun), is most likely okay with a drink over dinner once in a while. (Though I don't remember how often/much we saw Toby drinking.)

 

On 11/2/2018 at 10:27 AM, ShadowFacts said:

I suppose it varies by insurance company, but I've had my windshield replaced twice, at no cost, and the company did not question me as to what happened.  

It does vary, because my insurance doesn't cover windshield replacement at all. When I got hit by a rock (kicked up by a truck on the highway) I had to pay for it myself. My insurance did recommend a company (which came and fixed it in the parking lot at work), and called them right then and transferred me so I didn't even have to dial their number, which was nice, but they didn't cover any of it. (All other body work I've had done has been covered completely except my deductible. But while the insurance guy at my car dealer told me flat out that the company they use would never be able to beat my insurance company's rates, just based on which company it is, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Randall has a hell of a lot better coverage than I do. But I drive a Hyundai, not a Mercedes.)

 

On 11/2/2018 at 1:22 PM, Christina87 said:

Yes!!! I agree with Kate and Toby too. I just assumed Toby had a decent job, and that Kate was working somewhere, until she said she had to go to work and it was a singing thing. Seriously? That's something most people do on the side, on top of their paying job. If she wants to be a housewife who sings on the side, that is fine, but it's silly to act like she has a legitimate career. I could buy Toby working a decent job until the depression got this bad; first of all, he had to take days off for the IVF, so you wouldn't think he'd have weeks of sick leave to spend in bed, nor would his employer be happy with all this! Plus, he is always seen out and about in the middle of the day. A throwaway line would work here too, like a lighthearted, "well, Kate, I need to get back to work today! I'll be in the home office if you need me. Someone's gotta pay for this baby on the way!" If the show made no attempt to be realistic, this wouldn't bother me, but it does try in other ways. Then we see Kevin living the most minimalist life of all, when he would realistically be set! He should be the one buying a nice house and financing expensive things!

He seems to be some sort of manager (in the scene when Kate visits him at work, he has his own office while the rest of the employees seem to be in an open office setup), so he probably makes a decent salary. He might be able to use FMLA for his time off with the depression issues (even intermittently), if the company is big enough and he's worked there long enough. If that's the case it'd be nice to throw in a line about it. The rest of it...who knows..? Maybe he just has a super-flexible schedule.

Edited November 3, 2018 by ams1001

[maddie965]

I take the same drug as Toby and drinking alcohol is not an issue. Unless I get really drunk, but that's not likely.

[saber5055]

I was reminded of this show and Toby after hearing several news reports about water contamination and how prescription pills get into our water supply (and our tap water!) because stupid people flush them down the toilet instead of disposing them in the proper way. We have prescription-pill-drop-off days here for people who are aware of and care about the environment. *cough that's not toby cough*

[Sake614]

As a dog owner I can tell you that the last thing you want to do when your dog decides to poop is run over to him lol! You silently cheer, let him finish, and THEN go to pick it up. You don’t want to distract him because then he might stop and lord knows when you’ll get him to poop again! 

As for Audio being off leash, I’m guessing California doesn’t have as strict laws as N.Y. or some other states. But I’d still be watching my dog if he was off leash. Even if it were in an enclosed dog run. 

I concur with everyone else who complained about both the tediousness of this season and about Randall and this election story. I can’t belive for s minute that just because his name was on a lease that entitles him to run for office in Philly. Candidates have been challenged here in NY if their primary voting residence isn’t in the district. Especially for a local office like councilman. I can’t tell you how badly I want him to lose. And lose BIG!

[Empress1]

On 10/31/2018 at 3:09 PM, After7Only said:

Agreed.  But is very common for politicians to visit churches as part of their campaign.    Every politician running for office right now will be in at least one church this weekend campaigning.  

Don't get all the emphasis on Randall's finances.   It was already established that he was very successful at his job and it paid a lot of money.   It's not unreasonable at all that he could take a year or 2 off working and be just fine.   He has investments, including the building he purchased, so he still has income.     But really the show is pretty loosey goosey on the financial status of all of the big 3.   Kate/Toby mentioned the cost of IVF but it didn't appear to be a hardship for them, even though Kate can barely cover the gas bill.   Even before Toby, Kate was only partly employed, but she managed to maintain a home, travel, etc.   Kevin, should be the richest of them all,  but don't really portray him to be particularly rich.   

Of the three, the only one whose finances I wonder about is Kate's. Kate has barely worked since we knew her. Kevin fired her, she worked for that woman briefly, she has had one singing gig and one singing telegram gig. When they showed her in her 20s she was a diner waitress, so not making a lot of money then either.

Kevin has said he made millions so I assume he's living off that. The Manny is syndicated, given that he said it's very popular in South Korea, so if he had a decent agent he should still be making money off of it. He just wrapped a movie for which he was presumably paid. He also doesn't appear to live too extravagantly - his apartment is small and he doesn't look like he has a lot of stuff. His biggest expense since we met him has probably been rehab (which, to be fair, is very expensive). 

I think it's been well-established that Randall is rich. He was a commodities trader. Not only that, but if I recall correctly, he was a partner in his firm (when he quit, he said he'd started the firm and brought in something like 75% of the clients). Commodities traders make bank (high salaries, big bonuses), by all accounts he was excellent at it, and he was doing it for at least ten years and was very senior. His car was over $100K and he paid cash, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of person to have a $100K car but no money in the bank, so I think he's rich. His job was quite literally to make and manage money, so I assume he does just that with the family finances. He was in a profession that absolutely could have netted him millions - if he'd quit his job as a teacher, I'd wonder about their finances, but as a senior-level commodities trader ... I think he's just rich. Hasn't always been rich (that line about "them crab puffs" made me laugh) but is rich now.

Quote

The Pearson home is lovely and/but not vast or luxe;

If I recall correctly, Beth told William they bought it as a fixer-upper, which strikes me as a very Randall thing to do, buying a fixer in a nice neighborhood and improving it over time.

The other person whose finances I wonder about is 40something Rebecca, who would have had to support her three teenagers after Jack died and who had limited (no?) experience working outside the home.

Quote

There is nothing more heartbreaking than losing a job that you are so invested in and then being thrown back into a workforce when you are nearly middle-aged that you do not even recognize anymore. My friend lost her job of 17 years due to budget cuts even though her performance was excellent. She actually had never applied online to anything since she was hired right out of grad school. She is shocked at the state of the workforce. A million online applications for one job, so employers are not weeding out candidates but computers that follow weird algorithms. Employers forcing what should be permanent salaried workers into doing contract hourly workers, so they do not have to pay benefits. People balking at her old salary, even though it was perfectly reasonable for someone with her training and experience. She has actually had people be suspicious of why she staid with a company for so long "since most people should go on to something better in 3-5 years". She feels like she has to start over with competing with people who are at least a decade younger and willing to take much less. It made her feel like all her hard work was for nothing. I bet Beth feels the same type of hurt and rejection.

I'm a regular in a particular class at my gym, and that class has a lot of regulars. One day we were waiting for the class before it to let out, and someone noticed that one of the other regulars, "Olivia," wasn't there. She usually came with someone, "Julie," who WAS there, so people were asking her where Olivia was. Olivia worked for a big company that merged with another big company and she'd been laid off in the merger. She'd worked there 20 years. She was so depressed she couldn't get out of bed, so that's where she was. Julie was like, "I've been checking on her but this really hit her hard." No performance issues - it's just a thing that happens when companies merge. And she said the same thing you did, that Olivia felt she had to start over because odds were good that she'd have a hard time finding another job at her level - often, the higher you go, the harder it is to find something.

I was laid off in 2015 from a job I hated (I was actively looking when the layoff came) and I got severance and unemployment benefits, plus I had an emergency fund. My overhead is pretty low so people told me to take time off, but I just didn't want to. I like working. I like being busy. And even though there were no performance issues with me (my entire team was part of a round of layoffs in the second restructuring in a year - the company was losing a lot of money because it had released an inferior service and was losing clients), you do kind of feel like a failure, so I wanted to prove I had some value by getting back to work. I can certainly understand it if Beth were like "I can't just sit around here watching HGTV all day," because neither can I. But I would feel better about Beth's working for the campaign if it were her idea. I want her to lean into what William said about not just supporting Randall all the time.

I love Deja. (I love that she's letting her hair grow out, and I'm excited to see what she does with it as it continues to grow. I find it really refreshing to see Black women and girls with natural hair on screen.) I like that she's giving her versions of the Pearson talks. There was something really moving about how she said that Randall had told her she was exceptional and for her that was staggering and for him it was no big deal, and she thought "He must think people have told me this before." I hope people keep telling her she's exceptional.

I agree with those of you who noticed the look on Mandy Moore's face when Jack mentioned Nicky. She's come a long way since "Candy."

[Diana Berry]

On 10/30/2018 at 7:01 PM, ShadowFacts said:

The Korean-American grandmother is so inspired by Randall's speechifying powers that she registers to vote for the first time in 75 years -- sorry, writers, you're overplaying your hand on this one. 

Anyone thinking she could be Jack or Nicky's baby mama and young campaign manager their grandson?

[Lady Calypso]

12 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

Anyone thinking she could be Jack or Nicky's baby mama and young campaign manager their grandson?

No, I'm positive that this isn't the case. First off, even for this show, it's too soapy. But also, the woman in the picture is Vietnamese, not Korean, and I'm pretty sure the grandmother would not have fought or been in Vietnam.  

[Pallas]

17 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I would feel better about Beth's working for the campaign if it were her idea. I want her to lean into what William said about not just supporting Randall all the time.

 

I think we'll get there. Annie Savoy, intro, Bull Durham: "It's a long season, and you gotta trust it." 

[DebbieM4]

On 10/31/2018 at 12:59 AM, Drumpf1737 said:

 

The traders on Billions have ridiculous cars, homes and leisure activities so I'm really confused at the obsession with Randall and Beth's finances. A man who paid for a 100K+ car in cash is not hurting for money. I'm sure Beth isn't a Mercedes driving welfare queen so what's the problem? 

Yes, but extremely wealthy people have extremely high bills to pay and extremely high financial obligations.   I completely understand why this is a topic of discussion.

[DebbieM4]

On 10/31/2018 at 11:48 AM, TwoGrayTabbies said:

I’m really hoping that Randall will lose the election and have an epiphany along the lines of “I have got to commit myself to a realistic plan to make a genuine contribution to the community without shortchanging my family and draining our financial and emotional resources.”  But I also was hoping Randall would respond to Beth’s “I’m not okay “ by conscientiously addressing her needs for once.

In an episode that had several things that bothered me, this is what bothered me most.  She finally told him that she's "not okay", and instead of taking the time to get out of his own head and talk to her, really listen, and behave like a loving partner, he instantly came up with a solution that benefits him far more than it benefits her.  She's apparently very accomplished and talented in her own right, and it felt to me like he was throwing her a bone by having her latch on to what he wants to do.   It seemed mildly insulting.  Even if the end result had been the same, and she had worked up enthusiasm for his campaign, working together, etc, at least he could have listened to her first and really talked it through.  She held in her true feelings for awhile, and she deserved to be heard.  The Randall I initially knew and loved didn't seem like the kind of person who would be this tone deaf and uncaring.   I wanted him to say, "Baby, talk to me", but he couldn't put himself aside even for a few moments, even for the woman he loves.

And yes, there was not one word about who would be home with the kids after school, to drive them to activities or for plans with friends, to help with homework, etc.   A big perk to being unemployed is the ability to spend time with one's own children yet they seem quite willing to give that up.  Even if his campaign was local, it would still be a consideration.  So apparently both of them are now going to be a distance away, helping another community instead of acting like responsible parents.  (I live not far from Alpine, and travel time can take longer than the times I've seen here, which already make no sense for a couple who has young children.)  I understand that this is just a TV show, and some suspension of disbelief is required.  But if we're supposed to relate to any of these characters in any way, I'd like to see a little more effort toward being realistic.

[Drumpf1737]

45 minutes ago, DebbieM4 said:

 I completely understand why this is a topic of discussion.

Why is most of the thread devoted to this when Toby and Kate are having IVF on a middle manager's salary? Yes, Kate makes singing telegrams but is that really good paying work? How much does that bring in?  The questions about Randall's income are excessive.

Why wouldn't a commodities trader who got those big bonuses we all heard about during the financial crisis not have 3MM in cash and investments socked away?

I'm tired of watching some average lady get on a plane and Eat Pray her way to Love under the Tuscan sun with no explanation of how these hotels and plane tickets are being funded but a commodities trader taking a year off work is a stretch of the imagination.  Meanwhile, we watch the traders on Billions (who also all live in North Jersey) with no issues. Wonder what the difference is?

[DebbieM4]

On 10/31/2018 at 9:41 PM, Neurochick said:

 

The obsession with Randall’s finances is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.  I wonder if people were this obsessed with the characters in Friends who probably couldn’t afford to live where they did in real life.

 

There was a lot of talk about Friends.  It was explained, though, that Monica inherited that apartment from her grandmother, and it was rent-controlled.  Ross had a good job, as did Chandler (and Joey was his roommate in an apartment that was far smaller than Monica and Rachel's.)  Was all of it completely realistic?  No.  But at least there was an effort to have it somewhat make sense.

On 10/31/2018 at 4:09 PM, Neurochick said:

Maybe everyone here would like to see one episode focused on nothing but work and money?

 

Thanks for this.  I thought I was crazy because I really don't care one bit about their finances.  If I wanted to watch a show about money ,I'd watch CNBC.

 

I'm not at all interested in a show about money, but I think a throwaway line every now and then would go a long way toward making these people and their lives more believable.  There are too many things that are, IMO, too glaring to be ignored.  I don't want to think about money (theirs or mine!), and it would be nice if the characters at least acknowledged some of these things once in awhile even in a small way.  ("I spoke to our broker, and we should be okay for awhile.  So join my campaign, Beth!")  Then none of us would have to think about their finances or feel that these people don't exist in the real world.

Edited November 6, 2018 by DebbieM4

[DebbieM4]

On 11/1/2018 at 8:12 AM, topanga said:

That’s the thing. She talked about getting a job, but it was obvious—at least to me—was that Beth’s ‘I’m not ok’ was about more than not working. I’m very surprised Randall didn’t have more insight into his wife’s mood. Of course, Beth could’ve been more forthcoming about her feelings, but maybe she didn’t know how to express it. 

She was clearly struggling, and he did nothing to help her express her thoughts.   It was clearly difficult for her, and he dropped the ball completely, IMO.  I'm quite sure she had summoned up the courage to talk to him, and then didn't feel heard at all.

On 11/1/2018 at 4:43 PM, MamaMax said:

Perhaps Beth doesn't just work for the paycheck?  It seems to me that her unemployment is doing a number on her self-esteem, not her wallet. 

Yes, I'm sure it has a lot to do with her self-esteem and feelings of worth.  Not only did she lose a job that she loved, but it seemed to come as a shock.  And then she was rejected over and over again, and is feeling hopeless.  Her life is off-balance now, and she doesn't know what she did wrong or how to get back on track.   She doesn't seem at all frantic about bringing in money, so I think it's more about the emotional impact of how her career seemed to spiral downward with no warning.

[DebbieM4]

On 11/3/2018 at 10:22 AM, chocolatine said:

When Beth was psyching herself up for her job interview, she said something about trying to get six-figure offer. According to PayScale, the high end of an urban planner's salary range is $80k, so by "six figures" Beth probably meant $100k - any more than that would be a stretch for her profession. If Randall and Beth were super-rich, they would have at least eight figures worth of assets, so I doubt $100k a year would even be worth mentioning. Beth and Randall might not be in any immediate trouble, but as I've said before, it's about the long-term sustainability of their lifestyle. Money is a finite resource which tends to run out unless it's replenished on a regular basis. Assuming they want to stay in the good school district until Annie graduates high school, send all three girls to college, and retire at a reasonable age, they're going to have to discuss their finances sooner or later.

Yes, I agree.  And just because they're not in financial trouble now doesn't mean the topic of finances wouldn't come up.  When Beth lost her job, Randall could have said something reassuring, along the lines of telling her that she'll find something else and she should take her time because all was well on that front.  Or when he decided to pursue his stupid election campaign, he could have said something about having the money to do it or where it would come from or whatever.  Just so we feel that they are real people because real people would talk about money in these type of situations.   I don't doubt that they could be all set for awhile, but it's completely unrealistic to me that all of these massive changes would happen and not a word would be said.  (I don't need to see the long conversations that actual couples would have - just a tiny snippet here and there.)

38 minutes ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Why is most of the thread devoted to this when Toby and Kate are having IVF on a middle manager's salary? Yes, Kate makes singing telegrams but is that really good paying work? How much does that bring in?  The questions about Randall's income are excessive.

Why wouldn't a commodities trader who got those big bonuses we all heard about during the financial crisis not have 3MM in cash and investments socked away?

I'm tired of watching some average lady get on a plane and Eat Pray her way to Love under the Tuscan sun with no explanation of how these hotels and plane tickets are being funded but a commodities trader taking a year off work is a stretch of the imagination.  Meanwhile, we watch the traders on Billions (who also all live in North Jersey) with no issues. Wonder what the difference is?

Toby & Kate are a bigger issue to me, and have been for a long time.  I never understood how Kate was supporting herself.  At least Toby seemed to have a job, but now?  That whole aspect with both of them doesn't make any sense at all.  I feel as though that has been discussed here a lot, going back to the previous seasons.

[Sake614]

Toby’s job probably has really good benefits. He could be on short term disability which would pay him full salary for up to 12 weeks. If he needs to be out longer, he could go on long term disability. That would only pay up to 66% of his salary but would cover him for up to 6 months. And most insurance covers IVF these days. But I do agree with the larger issue of jetting cross country whenever she wants. She started as Kevin’s assistant. Then worked as a nanny. Then for Toby’s ex. Has she even had a job since then? And how do they expect to support themselves and a baby presuming Kate carries to term?

[TwoGrayTabbies]

19 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

Toby’s job probably has really good benefits. He could be on short term disability which would pay him full salary for up to 12 weeks. If he needs to be out longer, he could go on long term disability. That would only pay up to 66% of his salary but would cover him for up to 6 months. And most insurance covers IVF these days. But I do agree with the larger issue of jetting cross country whenever she wants. She started as Kevin’s assistant. Then worked as a nanny. Then for Toby’s ex. Has she even had a job since then? And how do they expect to support themselves and a baby presuming Kate carries to term?

Does Kate expect that someday she’ll earn a full-time income from singing?  She never mentions anything about other career goals, or jobs, or job training.  That’s an awfully dreamy expectation, especially for someone who often seems to believe the universe is out to get her. And beyond unrealistic for a 38-year old with no musical education, no known experience (has she ever even been in a school choir?), and a voice that’s good and pleasant, but not exceptional.

 This show frustrates me because it’s billed that viewers can connect with emotionally, but it just hand-waves away practical realities so it can squeeze out as much drama and emotion as possible.  Randall feels guilty about not making things right with Kate on the phone?  No problem, he’ll just fly out to the west coast and be home in time to stop in Philadelphia before returning home by the end of the day.  Kate wants to focus on singing and fertility?  No problem, her fiancé/spouse can pay her way.  Randall wants to revitalize an impoverished neighborhood in another state?  No problem, his name was on William’s lease, so he’s an eligible candidate.  And his newly adopted daughter has put her traumatized background behind her, so no demands there.  Really, when a movie and tv star is the character with the most believable life, something is wrong with the writing.  Of course that’s likely to change when he finds the mysterious Vietnamese woman 2 minutes off the plane in a coincidence so contrived we’ll hear an exasperated sigh coming from Charles Dickens’s grave.

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Why is most of the thread devoted to this when Toby and Kate are having IVF on a middle manager's salary? Yes, Kate makes singing telegrams but is that really good paying work? How much does that bring in?  The questions about Randall's income are excessive.

I don't watch the show Billions so I can't answer that part of your question.

There's been complaints about how Kate makes a living on singing, for sure. I still don't get how she gets by without leaning on Toby and likely Kevin for financial support. I assume Toby makes good amount of money at his job, but I've been questioning how they've been affording IVF for ages. That is extremely expensive and not everybody can afford it. I believe those questions were brought up in previous episodes but because they've been brought up so frequently since last season, it's not a new topic of discussion anymore. Though, seriously, what does Kate even do BESIDES going to the occasional gig? It doesn't even sound like she gets many gigs so is she just sitting around while Toby is at work? I would think that Kate would pick up another job while she's waiting for her next gig, so she can contribute to the household as well but also being able to do something while waiting. 

The question with Beth and Randall is more because Randall's been out of a job for well over a year and now Beth's out of a job on top of running for an election where you make zero money as income. It's a valid question to be focusing on, especially when they've just adopted Deja and have three kids to provide for. This is a new situation and one that is a clear arc where neither parent will be making money and don't seem to have any babysitters or people to care for their kids while they're driving to Philly likely every day, now working very odd and late hours, while wasting money on gas. I have an hour and a half commute one way to work every day and I need to get gas every two-three days. That eats up quite a bit of my time but also my money. I don't know how Randall and Beth are going to do it for however long the campaign is. I just hope they're planning on carpooling but I assume they may take two cars so one parent (Beth, likely) can go home for the kids while the other (Randall) keeps working. Which is still going to eat up more money. 

I think it has to do with my dad just getting off an election that makes me question how both parents will be able to provide the same level of care to their three kids while running a campaign. It's just becoming more unfeasible the more I think about it.

So yeah, the difference is that Beth and Randall's situation is new so there's going to be questions. Kate and Toby's financial situation has been going on for ages and there were questions about her IVF a few episodes ago. 

I guess the easy guess is that Kevin is helping them out since he has plenty of money to help out his family where needed. I'm hoping for at least a line of dialogue about both the Beth/Randall situation and the Kate/Toby IVF situation to ease me of my worries. For a show that says that they appeal to the average person....it doesn't really make sense sometimes. 

[maddie965]

For me, the big issue here is that the writers are distancing the stories from reality more and more these days - the money thing is part if this. Season 1 worked so well because we could relate to those people and the way they live their lives. TIU is at its best when it deals with the big qustions - life, death, family, love, grief, hope, despair - in a way that we can all relate. For me, Kate, Kevin and Randall could be my brothers and sisters. Jack and Rebecca could be my parents. I loved all the small family moments, all the love shared, all the little misunderstandings, all the little and big struggles. Most of all, I loved seeing the Big 3 interacting in meaninful ways. When was the last time that happened? I also loved seeing Kate, Kevin and Randall growing, evolving, learning from their mistakes, trying to be better at life.

Now I feel that most of that is gone. The writers left the central issues behind and replaced it with lazy artificial drama. And, in the proccess, destroyed their own characters. Both Randal and Kate have been victims of character assassination. Randall was a caring, loving husband and father. Now he's a lunatic who wants to save the world and is blind to the needs of his family. Kate was a sweet, lovely girl, full of insecurities but capable of loving and taking care of her little brother, and a capable professional. Now she's a narcissistic bitch, most if the time. Kevin is the only survivor, but his growth is not being told in a satisfactory way either. And all if this for the sake of stupid turns and twists. Hello, we're not here for the twists or the big drama. We're here for the small moments  that remind us who we are. The show should be about US. Right now, it's not.

Edited November 5, 2018 by maddie965

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I still don't get how she gets by without leaning on Toby and likely Kevin for financial support. I assume Toby makes good amount of money at his job, but I've been questioning how they've been affording IVF for ages. That is extremely expensive and not everybody can afford it.

Toby and Kate live together and I don't think that there is any doubt that he is paying more than half the expenses.  As for the IVF, Kate was probably making good money under Kevin, which Randall may or may not have helped her invest, and Toby has probably been making good money at his job.  I figure they pooled their savings and it's enough for a one-shot try at IVF. 

[SnarkySheep]

On 10/31/2018 at 12:15 AM, ChromaKelly said:

Gah! I know. The cookie thing was bugging me. Individually, you do your pre-sales first. That's when you go door-to-door (or go to your mom's office, hit up your family, etc) and get people to buy cookies. They order them, you turn in the money, and about a month later, the cookies come in, then you deliver them. Your troop orders cookies at that time too, and those cookies are what you sell at cookie booths. You have specific territory in which you can set your booths up, and yes, you have to get permission from the stores to sell cookies.

Huh, this sounds really intense. Maybe the fear of having to buy 150 boxes of expensive cookies again was the reason they let Beth go?? Hey, just saying...

[RedbirdNelly]

unpopular opinion but I enjoyed this episode. I finished watching and thought to myself "I bet a lot of people may not like it, but I just love this show."

I liked how the episode ended with a look at 3 couples, and all were having strong moments. Rebecca and Jack's moment was especially awesome--the moment others have called out where he starts to talk about his brother and Rebecca just pauses so to not mess it up--and the moment when he jokes about the boxing fantasy he didn't know he should have--those were so well done.

I didn't have an issue with Beth going to work with Randall. I liked how she was able to speak up--we did not have to draw out the "talk to him!" moment over 3 episodes like most shows do. As he was offering the job, it occurred to me that she would be excellent at it, and his job is on helping people which she has excellent experience in. So, I didn't see it as a negative.

I am not the biggest Kate/Toby fan, but I did like her saying I'm with you, sickness and in health. . . There are a lot of complaints of Kate's storylines just being about the weight and babies; this one was Kate stepping up to be a source of strength for her husband. I liked it.

[qtpye]

17 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

In an episode that had several things that bothered me, this is what bothered me most.  She finally told him that she's "not okay", and instead of taking the time to get out of his own head and talk to her, really listen, and behave like a loving partner, he instantly came up with a solution that benefits him far more than it benefits her.  She's apparently very accomplished and talented in her own right, and it felt to me like he was throwing her a bone by having her latch on to what he wants to do.   It seemed mildly insulting.  Even if the end result had been the same, and she had worked up enthusiasm for his campaign, working together, etc, at least he could have listened to her first and really talked it through.  She held in her true feelings for awhile, and she deserved to be heard.  The Randall I initially knew and loved didn't seem like the kind of person who would be this tone deaf and uncaring.   I wanted him to say, "Baby, talk to me", but he couldn't put himself aside even for a few moments, even for the woman he loves.

And yes, there was not one word about who would be home with the kids after school, to drive them to activities or for plans with friends, to help with homework, etc.   A big perk to being unemployed is the ability to spend time with one's own children yet they seem quite willing to give that up.  Even if his campaign was local, it would still be a consideration.  So apparently both of them are now going to be a distance away, helping another community instead of acting like responsible parents.  (I live not far from Alpine, and travel time can take longer than the times I've seen here, which already make no sense for a couple who has young children.)  I understand that this is just a TV show, and some suspension of disbelief is required.  But if we're supposed to relate to any of these characters in any way, I'd like to see a little more effort toward being realistic.

 

On 11/3/2018 at 8:22 PM, Empress1 said:

Of the three, the only one whose finances I wonder about is Kate's. Kate has barely worked since we knew her. Kevin fired her, she worked for that woman briefly, she has had one singing gig and one singing telegram gig. When they showed her in her 20s she was a diner waitress, so not making a lot of money then either.

Kevin has said he made millions so I assume he's living off that. The Manny is syndicated, given that he said it's very popular in South Korea, so if he had a decent agent he should still be making money off of it. He just wrapped a movie for which he was presumably paid. He also doesn't appear to live too extravagantly - his apartment is small and he doesn't look like he has a lot of stuff. His biggest expense since we met him has probably been rehab (which, to be fair, is very expensive). 

I think it's been well-established that Randall is rich. He was a commodities trader. Not only that, but if I recall correctly, he was a partner in his firm (when he quit, he said he'd started the firm and brought in something like 75% of the clients). Commodities traders make bank (high salaries, big bonuses), by all accounts he was excellent at it, and he was doing it for at least ten years and was very senior. His car was over $100K and he paid cash, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of person to have a $100K car but no money in the bank, so I think he's rich. His job was quite literally to make and manage money, so I assume he does just that with the family finances. He was in a profession that absolutely could have netted him millions - if he'd quit his job as a teacher, I'd wonder about their finances, but as a senior-level commodities trader ... I think he's just rich. Hasn't always been rich (that line about "them crab puffs" made me laugh) but is rich now.

If I recall correctly, Beth told William they bought it as a fixer-upper, which strikes me as a very Randall thing to do, buying a fixer in a nice neighborhood and improving it over time.

The other person whose finances I wonder about is 40something Rebecca, who would have had to support her three teenagers after Jack died and who had limited (no?) experience working outside the home.

I'm a regular in a particular class at my gym, and that class has a lot of regulars. One day we were waiting for the class before it to let out, and someone noticed that one of the other regulars, "Olivia," wasn't there. She usually came with someone, "Julie," who WAS there, so people were asking her where Olivia was. Olivia worked for a big company that merged with another big company and she'd been laid off in the merger. She'd worked there 20 years. She was so depressed she couldn't get out of bed, so that's where she was. Julie was like, "I've been checking on her but this really hit her hard." No performance issues - it's just a thing that happens when companies merge. And she said the same thing you did, that Olivia felt she had to start over because odds were good that she'd have a hard time finding another job at her level - often, the higher you go, the harder it is to find something.

I was laid off in 2015 from a job I hated (I was actively looking when the layoff came) and I got severance and unemployment benefits, plus I had an emergency fund. My overhead is pretty low so people told me to take time off, but I just didn't want to. I like working. I like being busy. And even though there were no performance issues with me (my entire team was part of a round of layoffs in the second restructuring in a year - the company was losing a lot of money because it had released an inferior service and was losing clients), you do kind of feel like a failure, so I wanted to prove I had some value by getting back to work. I can certainly understand it if Beth were like "I can't just sit around here watching HGTV all day," because neither can I. But I would feel better about Beth's working for the campaign if it were her idea. I want her to lean into what William said about not just supporting Randall all the time.

I love Deja. (I love that she's letting her hair grow out, and I'm excited to see what she does with it as it continues to grow. I find it really refreshing to see Black women and girls with natural hair on screen.) I like that she's giving her versions of the Pearson talks. There was something really moving about how she said that Randall had told her she was exceptional and for her that was staggering and for him it was no big deal, and she thought "He must think people have told me this before." I hope people keep telling her she's exceptional.

I agree with those of you who noticed the look on Mandy Moore's face when Jack mentioned Nicky. She's come a long way since "Candy."

 

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't watch the show Billions so I can't answer that part of your question.

There's been complaints about how Kate makes a living on singing, for sure. I still don't get how she gets by without leaning on Toby and likely Kevin for financial support. I assume Toby makes good amount of money at his job, but I've been questioning how they've been affording IVF for ages. That is extremely expensive and not everybody can afford it. I believe those questions were brought up in previous episodes but because they've been brought up so frequently since last season, it's not a new topic of discussion anymore. Though, seriously, what does Kate even do BESIDES going to the occasional gig? It doesn't even sound like she gets many gigs so is she just sitting around while Toby is at work? I would think that Kate would pick up another job while she's waiting for her next gig, so she can contribute to the household as well but also being able to do something while waiting. 

The question with Beth and Randall is more because Randall's been out of a job for well over a year and now Beth's out of a job on top of running for an election where you make zero money as income. It's a valid question to be focusing on, especially when they've just adopted Deja and have three kids to provide for. This is a new situation and one that is a clear arc where neither parent will be making money and don't seem to have any babysitters or people to care for their kids while they're driving to Philly likely every day, now working very odd and late hours, while wasting money on gas. I have an hour and a half commute one way to work every day and I need to get gas every two-three days. That eats up quite a bit of my time but also my money. I don't know how Randall and Beth are going to do it for however long the campaign is. I just hope they're planning on carpooling but I assume they may take two cars so one parent (Beth, likely) can go home for the kids while the other (Randall) keeps working. Which is still going to eat up more money. 

I think it has to do with my dad just getting off an election that makes me question how both parents will be able to provide the same level of care to their three kids while running a campaign. It's just becoming more unfeasible the more I think about it.

So yeah, the difference is that Beth and Randall's situation is new so there's going to be questions. Kate and Toby's financial situation has been going on for ages and there were questions about her IVF a few episodes ago. 

I guess the easy guess is that Kevin is helping them out since he has plenty of money to help out his family where needed. I'm hoping for at least a line of dialogue about both the Beth/Randall situation and the Kate/Toby IVF situation to ease me of my worries. For a show that says that they appeal to the average person....it doesn't really make sense sometimes. 

I am waiting for the day that Deja greets Randall and Beth at the door with a "We need to talk" and promptly explains that it seems like the raising of the family has fallen upon her since stay at home dad is now off saving the world and mom is his campaign manager.

[DebbieM4]

11 hours ago, maddie965 said:

For me, the big issue here is that the writers are distancing the stories from reality more and more these days - the money thing is part if this. Season 1 worked so well because we could relate to those people and the way they live their lives. TIU is at its best when it deals with the big qustions - life, death, family, love, grief, hope, despair - in a way that we can all relate. 

I agree that the money thing is a big part of this.  But I also think the logistics that are being completely ignored are a part of it too.  Randall and Beth have three young girls who certainly need supervision, and probably transportation to activities, etc, too.  Not to mention that Deja is troubled and new to the family, and one of their girls is pretty young.  I would love to hear some kind of mention - anything! - about how these girls are being looked after.  They haven't even vaguely mentioned a neighbor or friend or hiring someone or anything at all, at any point (unless I missed it.)  It's as though the girls are nothing more than props, or dolls that are put away and taken out arbitrarily.  I suspect that the writers don't want to go there because we're supposed to see Randall and Beth as ultra-involved and loving parents.  But there's a huge chunk missing, and that kind of thing takes me out of the story.  Just a mention, just an acknowledgement that there are logistics to be worked out when a family has children, would go a long way.  Even if the issue was solved too easily (a highly qualified nanny just moved in next door!), at least it would be something.

Maybe the writers should just do what they used to do in soaps, and send all the girls upstairs, never to be seen again.  :-/

(I actually enjoy their girls a lot, and wish we could see them more.  I'd love much more Randall/Beth/family time.  I think that's an untapped aspect that would add a lot to this show.)

[Drumpf1737]

nm

Edited November 6, 2018 by Drumpf1737

[Drumpf1737]

16 hours ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

Toby’s job probably has really good benefits. He could be on short term disability which would pay him full salary for up to 12 weeks. If he needs to be out longer, he could go on long term disability. That would only pay up to 66% of his salary but would cover him for up to 6 months. And most insurance covers IVF these days.

Kate's not having a typical course of IVF and if I'm not mistaken they've done multiple rounds.  I mean I have pretty good insurance but they wouldn't approve an MRI let alone a high-risk procedure like IVF in an obese woman. MMV but it boggles my mind how a middle manager living in an apartment can go to extraordinary measures for IVF and that gets handwaved but an executive commodities trader taking a year off makes everyone uncomfortable. 

Obvs MMV but I watch TV so I don't have to think about jobs, bills and how to eke out a living and have a social life in one of the most expensive states in the nation. I watch television to see homes that are better decorated than mine inhabited by people better groomed than I. 

I don't need to see people struggle or worry to enjoy or relate to a show.  I enjoyed the Waltons very much when I was growing up in Brooklyn.

[Katy M]

5 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

if I'm not mistaken they've done multiple rounds.

They may end up doing multiple rounds, but as of now, they've done one egg extraction and one implantation.

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:21 PM, saber5055 said:

I was reminded of this show and Toby after hearing several news reports about water contamination and how prescription pills get into our water supply (and our tap water!) because stupid people flush them down the toilet instead of disposing them in the proper way. We have prescription-pill-drop-off days here for people who are aware of and care about the environment. *cough that's not toby cough*

I thought the same thing when he flushed them--"don't flush, Toby!'

[smartymarty]

Toby flushing the anti-depressants rather than just putting the bottle in the back of a drawer until after they conceived was a really unbelievable considering the things he's said about how dependent he is on them and how even-keeled he is (not so reactionary as to do something rash like this) when he is on them.

[DebbieM4]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Toby flushing the anti-depressants rather than just putting the bottle in the back of a drawer until after they conceived was a really unbelievable considering the things he's said about how dependent he is on them and how even-keeled he is (not so reactionary as to do something rash like this) when he is on them.

Yes, I thought it was out of character too.  Clearly it was simply done for dramatic effect.  It's exactly the kind of thing that takes me out of the story and makes this show far less enjoyable for me than it used to be.

[lucindabelle]

15 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

Yes, I thought it was out of character too.  Clearly it was simply done for dramatic effect.  It's exactly the kind of thing that takes me out of the story and makes this show far less enjoyable for me than it used to be.

And unnecessary. It's a TV trope thing. In real life, he'd have put the cap on them and put them in a drawer. This show has gone downhill. I used to rush to watch it, now it sits on the DVR for days.

[ErinV]

On 11/3/2018 at 3:21 PM, saber5055 said:

I was reminded of this show and Toby after hearing several news reports about water contamination and how prescription pills get into our water supply (and our tap water!) because stupid people flush them down the toilet instead of disposing them in the proper way. We have prescription-pill-drop-off days here for people who are aware of and care about the environment. *cough that's not toby cough*

Ugh it's such a TV trope to flush pills down the toilet.  He could've just...not taken them.  Or thrown them in the garbage can.  

[Tikichick]

On 11/1/2018 at 7:21 AM, gameshowjunkie said:

I joined the League of Women Voters this year and basically started registering people to vote with no training. And I know teenagers at my son's high school who've done it. It's easier than I would have expected. It's filling out a form and bringing it to the appropriate location - you're not actually vetting the information. Presumably the board of elections does that.

He had the idea, collected the forms and had the booth set up the same afternoon?  Sorry, I'm calling shenanigans on that one. 

[SevenStars]

On 11/6/2018 at 5:45 PM, DebbieM4 said:

Yes, I thought it was out of character too.  Clearly it was simply done for dramatic effect.  It's exactly the kind of thing that takes me out of the story and makes this show far less enjoyable for me than it used to be.

I agree. I actually think it would have been more dramatic and better story if we didn't know he was off his meds until later on when the affect of that decision appears and we learn why he has been off.