S01.E02: Tangled Up in Blue

[jsbt]

I think Harris is a red herring. I think if anyone's pregnant it's Darlene - right after she and David both move on.

I do think the show's long game is probably Darlene and David reuniting, assuming Galecki makes himself available (and he seems more than willing). I'd be fine with that only if David finally grows up, because this episode and his very good one last season made it clear Darlene had been pulling both their weight in the household for years before he left. The two actors are still wonderful together, but David needs to get his shit together. Hopefully this is an arc both he and Becky will follow.

Edited October 24, 2018 by jsbt

[jsbt]

8 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Jackie, Darlene, and Becky were great together.  More snarky Jackie, please.

I especially loved that ladies' night stuff. Reminded me of Roseanne out with Jackie, Crystal, Nancy/Bonnie/Anne-Marie, etc. Add Geena and do more, please. Like I said last page, it's the same type of show with a different character configuration.

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Yeah, this show has always been good at handling teen sexuality- Becky going on birth control before she went all the way with Mark at about 17, Darlene having a pretty active sex life with David when she was 16, and DJ deciding that he and Heather Matarazzo's character just weren't ready yet. I'd hate if they had Harris get pregnant to "punish" her for having sex like they did with Julia on Party of 5. And the fact that they talked so nonchalantly about using the Morning After Pill, which has been described inaccurately as an abortion pill, was awesome. It's literally just a high dose of the pill in case you didn't accurately use birth control during the actual sex act.

Becky had already had sex with Mark when she went on the pill, but they were using condoms for disease prevention and she wanted the pill as extra protection against pregnancy.  I loved that, and I loved that Harris wanted the morning after pill because she wasn't sure if they used the condom right, not because they hadn't used one at all.  As you said, this show has always been refreshing in its handling of teen sex, especially teenage girls having sex. 

[rmontro]

31 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

David mention that it was weird in the house without her.

That's right, thanks for that.  Contrasted with last week though, it looks like they're moving on from it quickly.

19 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Becky's alcoholism is being handled pretty well. We know she has a problem, they know she has a problem, but they're not launching into an after-school special intervention, at least not yet.

The great thing about this is that if Lacy Goranson starts making embarrassing tweets, they have a ready made excuse to write her out.  "What happened to Becky?"  "Oh, her alcoholism killed her".  That or they can have Sarah Chalke play her again.

[BeachDays]

22 minutes ago, jsbt said:

I think Harris is a red herring. I think if anyone's pregnant it's Darlene - right after she and David both move on.

I do think the show's long game is probably Darlene and David reuniting, assuming Galecki makes himself available (and he seems more than willing). I'd be fine with that only if David finally grows up, because this episode and his very good one last season made it clear Darlene had been pulling both their weight in the household for years before he left. The two actors are still wonderful together, but David needs to get his shit together. Hopefully this is an arc both he and Becky will follow.

 

I agree.   I rewatched a bit and will definitely watch over and over bc I love this ep, but there is SO MUCH FEELING between David and Darlene still-  I just can’t picture Darlene genuinely loving this new guy (or any potential suitor) as much as she loves David.   She looks at him like he is everything.    I mean maybe it’s just supposed to be her moving on from her past but Sara and Johnny are just so wonderful together.   I know they are super close in real life which helps ?.

 

But yeah, Darlene has been pulling all the weight and David needs to step up.   He’s a good guy, we have always known David is a good guy.... but maybe the death of his brother wrecked him and we know Darlene wasn’t always as amazing as she is now (well she was still amazing but not as mature or sensitive), and I just want the best of David with the best of Darlene.   ?

[tessaray]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

I'm not missing Roseanne either, just for the record.  But did they even mention her this week?  If not, probably the best approach.  Get all the questions and drama out of the way in the first episode, then drop it.

She might be more missed next week in the Halloween show though, she was always a driving force in those.

 

This episode was originally intended to be the 4th, not the 2nd. So there's that. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Also, one of my favorite lines was when Becky was talking about buying a trailer home and having a tree that you can tie yourself to when a tornado hits :p. 

I liked that too, but I think she, for whatever reason, said "the tornado," which made it all the funnier to me. I've always thought Becky was really good at the sarcasm, even way back when. And also (while drinking), "We use a wok."

Quote

Aw, yeah, I can totally see that comparison. Two of the best TV dads ever. 

Love them both! And Sandy Cohen of The OC!

Edited October 24, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[SparklesBitch]

Finally got around to watching this episode, and I thought it was really good! Blue showing up at the parent/teacher conference was highly inappropriate and I couldn't believe that she didn't see a problem with letting someone else's teenager have sex under her roof. Holy crap. Not a big fan of Blue. She DID give me one of my favorite lines of the episode, though: "I lived on a weed commune where we all shared in the raising of the children." Not going to lie, I cackled out loud, and Darlene's perfect reaction made it even better.

Jackie's line about Bev saying how neither of her daughters inherited her beauty killed me dead, but her whole "Stitches was a bust" thing was my favorite. She feels more like original Jackie and I'm loving it. Loved her and Darlene and Becky together. I hope there's more of that to come. I thought the Dan and Becky confronting her alcoholism thing was well done too. The whole original cast is just fantastic.

Oh, and I hope there's more Geena to come! I'm liking her.

[iMonrey]

Quote

did David and Darlene have a kid in the original series?

Harris was born towards the end of the ninth season, which this reboot is largely ignoring, so it's kind of weird what they're picking and choosing to be faithful to and what they're ignoring or retconning. This was also during the time when the Conners became millionaires after winning the lottery, for example. 

And while I can understand retconning Jerry (you'd think he'd have been there for his mother's funeral) since he was also born towards the end of the show's original run, they mentioned him briefly in the first episode last season. Yet they have completely ret-conned Jackie's son Andy out of existence, and he was a major plot point in Jackie's storylines and was born all the way back in Season 6.

I just . . . scratch my head at some of these decisions.

[DangerousMinds]

23 hours ago, tessaray said:

They stopped on the way home to buy the morning after pill, so not Harris - this time anyway.

I love that they included this, and hope that more people are aware it exists.

[Texasmom1970]

Here is hoping we see more of Johnny around, and for Blue, she can go away with the rest of the colors!

[jsbt]

33 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Harris was born towards the end of the ninth season, which this reboot is largely ignoring, so it's kind of weird what they're picking and choosing to be faithful to and what they're ignoring or retconning.

The (horrible) series finale retconned the lottery season out of existence before last year did. The revival then promptly retconned the finale as well.

They have also not retconned Jerry or Andy out of existence - Andy just hasn't come up onscreen and they've said as recently as spring they'll likely address him and Jerry (who was mentioned last season) in future. I don't know why people keep saying this. I'm perfectly willing to link to BTS articles mentioning him last season if I have to.

ETA: I went back and looked to see if there were more recent comments on this. To be clear, last season they did say they would probably get to Andy eventually. This season it's admittedly more ambivalent, but they have not said he's retconned out.

"We’ve acknowledged that Jerry is off on a boat,” showrunner Bruce Helford notes of Roseanne and Dan’s youngest kid. (You’d think he’d at least make an appearance at his mom’s funeral!) And with regard to Jackie and Fred’s son, Helford says, “We debated whether Andy was part of the ‘dream period’ or whether he existed. He’d probably be off at college if he does exist.”

So, it may be up for debate again but it's not definite.

Edited October 25, 2018 by jsbt

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, jsbt said:

The (horrible) series finale retconned the lottery season out of existence before last year did. The revival then promptly retconned the finale as well.

They have also not retconned Jerry or Andy out of existence - Andy just hasn't come up onscreen and they've said as recently as spring they'll likely address him and Jerry (who was mentioned last season) in future. I don't know why people keep saying this. I'm perfectly willing to link to BTS articles mentioning him last season if I have to.

I remember them mentioning Jerry (but not Andy, that I recall) last season. You'd think post-funeral episode would have been a good time to at least work in a mention. Maybe something about being glad they could make it there but then had to get back to wherever they're at now, or something.

[eskimo]

Count me among those who want to see David and Darlene back together.  I saw a couple glimpses of old Darlene this episode and loved it.  Lecy seems to have become comfortable again and Becky was great.  I do want to see Becky and David overcome their brokenness from Marks death.  Maybe Roseanne's death will shock them back into life the same way Mark's death shocked them into dysfunction.  I'm on the fence about Gina, she seems a little stiff to me.  Maybe more camera time will allow the character to develop a little better.  I suspect her scoldings are really just good natured ribbing between her and Darlene, but I wish it felt more natural and easier to identify.  I'm not writing her off though, it took a few cast members all of last season to get back into the groove. 

[SmithW6079]

I watched last week to see how they'd get rid of Roseanne, but I didn't really plan to be back this week. Although I watched "Roseanne" in its early days, I lost interest after a few seasons and stopped watching. And I avoided last year precisely because of Roseanne and her politics. However, I realized "The Conners" was on & set my DVR. I enjoyed the episode, and laughed out loud several times. I think the show works so much better without her.

Does Johnny Galecki lower his voice for this role or raise it for "Big Bang Theory"? Either way, I was sorry to see him look so defeated here. While I agree that he and Darlene play off well against each other, she's a bitch to him, and as I recall, she always was. I found it sexist for her to say, "you're the daughter my mom always wanted," because emasculating men is fun.

The girlfriend made me laugh with her hippie-dippie/New Age crap. I actually thought the story (if true) of how she was named was touching, not a joke. I took it to mean that when she was born, she wasn't breathing and could have died.

It makes me sad that Becky ended up a loser and a drunk. Wasn't she the Conner with the most potential? What happened -- was it marrying Mark that took her down the wrong road?

I could identify with John Goodman/Dan saying that "they say it's not too late [to get in shape and eat right], but it is."

Darlene was being a hypocrite, I thought, blasting Harris for having teenage sex, when she and David were going at it all the time (confirmed by David in the end scene with Dan).

[ChiCricket]

13 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

Darlene was being a hypocrite, I thought, blasting Harris for having teenage sex, when she and David were going at it all the time (confirmed by David in the end scene with Dan).

 Maybe not a hypocrite as much as wanting her daughter to be older/more emotionally prepared than she felt she was, in retrospect.

Edited October 25, 2018 by ChiCricket
,

[tessaray]

27 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

It makes me sad that Becky ended up a loser and a drunk. Wasn't she the Conner with the most potential? What happened -- was it marrying Mark that took her down the wrong road?

I could identify with John Goodman/Dan saying that "they say it's not too late [to get in shape and eat right], but it is."

Darlene was being a hypocrite, I thought, blasting Harris for having teenage sex, when she and David were going at it all the time (confirmed by David in the end scene with Dan).

It wasn't marrying Mark that affected Becky, it was Mark dying. His death was also the end of David and Darlene, as David went off the rails afterwards, too. 

I don't think Darlene was being a hypocrite about the teen sex just angry that Blue let Harris have sex and that Harris used the opportunity knowing her parents would have objections.  Darlene was pretty compassionate about the boy not texting or calling Harris the next day and non-judgmental about the drug store stop. 

ETA:  If you have access to the last season, it's worth watching for the backstory and where all the Conners are at now. 

[ams1001]

12 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

The girlfriend made me laugh with her hippie-dippie/New Age crap. I actually thought the story (if true) of how she was named was touching, not a joke. I took it to mean that when she was born, she wasn't breathing and could have died.

My first thought was, why would you name your kid something that would remind you of that every time you called her name?

Then again, my grandmother was given a middle name (which she went by) that means "alone" in German, supposedly because she had a twin brother who died at birth. And my mom was named after her (and also goes by her middle name)...and I was named after them, except it's my first name. So there's that.
(I don't know for sure if this is a true story. It's a bit of family lore and anyone who could have verified it is long gone (and I never knew my grandmother). It is true that the name means "alone." But I've also been told it's just an old Irish name with no particular story behind it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )

All this to say...sometimes people pick odd names for odd reasons.

[AntiBeeSpray]

22 hours ago, BeachDays said:

Ah I just assumed if the show was going to make her pregnant they wouldn’t risk fetal alcohol syndrome or something.... but maybe she didn’t drink too much??  Like I said I am still hoping it’s them, I am reading all the articles coming out about this ep and it’s making me so sad!   

I want them back together sooooooo badly.    

Same here. Can't STAND Blue. She's very annoying.

[SanDiegoInExile]

11 hours ago, willowk said:

.........I think Goodman and Metcalf would do more seasons.

I agree, especially if ABC does the *smart* thing and continues future seasons as only 10-12 episodes, rather than 18-24.  Given that Sara is co-host and exec-producing a daytime talk show on another network, she may also prefer a short "cable-like" season in which they can crank out a dozen good scripts.  For over a decade now, cable programs have used this model, which has led to Netflix/Hulu/etc adopting a similar model for it's "quality" programs.  Filming a dozen episodes can be done during a three-month period, freeing everyone for other roles/jobs.

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

....... Yet they have completely ret-conned Jackie's son Andy out of existence, and he was a major plot point in Jackie's storylines and was born all the way back in Season 6......    I just . . . scratch my head at some of these decisions.

I have written his storyline in my head.  He won't get mentioned until he comes up for parole/early release.

Just a thought.....

Edited October 25, 2018 by SanDiegoInExile

[AgentRXS]

10 hours ago, tribeca said:

Was surprised Dan didn’t fire Becky on the spot for bringing the vodka and drinking on the job.  

The old Dan would have for sure, but I understand why he didn't now . He just lost his wife, the last thing he wants right now is to not be on speaking terms with Becky. Becky and Dan are alike in that they will stonewall the hell out of whoever they are pissed off at. I don't think Dan can handle that right now. It was always Roseanne attempting to mend fences between them, and she is gone. I'm not sure Darlene and Jackie have the patience to tolerate their respective stubbornness.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, SanDiegoInExile said:

I agree, especially if ABC does the *smart* thing and continues future seasons as only 10-12 episodes, rather than 18-24.  Given that Sara is co-host and exec-producing a daytime talk show on another network, she may also prefer a short "cable-like" season in which they can crank out a dozen good scripts.  For over a decade now, cable programs have used this model, which has led to Netflix/Hulu/etc adopting a similar model for it's "quality" programs.  Filming a dozen episodes can be done during a three-month period, freeing everyone for other roles/jobs.

I have written his storyline in my head.  He won't get mentioned until he comes up for parole/early release.

Just a thought.....

This is ABC though, not cable.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I thought casting Juliette Lewis was a fun nod to Christmas Vacation whether it was on purpose or not.  Fun seeing Justin Long!!

The writing had been solid and they are able to match the pace of the original show. 

[Glendenning]

Yeah. There's an interesting dilemma in scripting modern sitcoms - they want to appeal to many women by including jokes and remarks that supposedly "punch up" at men... but that upsets a lot of guys who feel that they are being attacked. It affects real life too - many women feel free to crack wise about guys and then act puzzled when a lot of guys don't give their ideas and beliefs support as a result.

[llewis823]

On 10/24/2018 at 12:46 AM, Emily Thrace said:

I get why they broke up but with Big Bang Theory ending TPTB might want to make David a regular. At least we hope.

And just maybe the pregnancy will be Darlene and that will be what facilitates them getting back together - because he would be available after BBT finishes shooting this final season.

[llewis823]

20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm amazed at how easily Johnny Galecki can slip back into playing David after 10 years of playing Leonard on Big Bang, and I don't even see the slightest hint of Leonard in his portrayal. On paper the two characters wouldn't seem that  different but there are so many nuances to both and Galecki manages to find them all, right down to the classic David hair.

1000x this!

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Darlene was being a hypocrite, I thought, blasting Harris for having teenage sex, when she and David were going at it all the time (confirmed by David in the end scene with Dan).

There's a huge difference between "being a hypocrite" and learning from experience that occurred years earlier; to think of it in this way is akin to saying that becoming educated (or even just changing one's mind) about something doesn't matter. Is it hypocritical for, let's say, people who smoked in the '60s, pre-Surgeon General warning, and who have gained insight since then to not want their grandchildren to smoke now? 

Edited October 25, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

I found it sexist for her to say, "you're the daughter my mom always wanted," because emasculating men is fun.

That line could work on his Big Bang character as well.  But good point, especially since this show tries to support the idea of freely choosing gender roles.  It's okay to mix gender traits - unless you're a male heterosexual, apparently.

The "Darlene is pregnant" idea could really be a nice juicy wrench in the works, considering David would (presumably) be the father.

[BlossomCulp]

4 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

The writing had been solid and they are able to match the pace of the original show. 

Like a few others posting here this was my biggest concern,  It wouldn't matter how good the acting was if the writing wasn't good.  And because of the tortured recent baggage attached to this show we all knew it wasn't going to have to just be good it was going to have to be great.  I think they're managing!

Edited October 25, 2018 by BlossomCulp

[jsbt]

7 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

This is ABC though, not cable.

Doesn't matter anymore. Network TV has moved into cable-length runs more and more over the last decade. Increasingly 10-13 episode seasons are the norm for most major programming on cable and streaming, and several top sitcoms on network with major stars have also adopted that model. The Conners/Roseanne is not the first and it won't be the last. (How to Get Away with Murder also does something similar - Viola Davis insisted the show be 15 episodes maximum per season) It just produces better content.

[BeachDays]

I think sometimes jokes are just jokes-  she also said that boys are terrible bc they are practicing becoming men.   But the joke about David being the daughter she always wanted reminded me of Geena’s joke last week about going to hell-  Darlene laughed after that exchange, David laughed after this one.  

[BlossomCulp]

5 minutes ago, BeachDays said:

But the joke about David being the daughter she always wanted reminded me of Geena’s joke last week about going to hell-  Darlene laughed after that exchange, David laughed after this one.  

This is family to me.  There are inside jokes that often only the family members really get.  Of course since this is a sitcom and we're inside the family dynamic we're getting the jokes too.  

[Glendenning]

It's just interesting that i see - on tv and film and in real life - so many cis women crack wise and ridicule cis men - justifying by saying they are "punching up" - but then i see articles wondering why guys aren't giving women's movements support the articles say they "desperately need", even though it should be obvious that insults and ridicule won't garner you much support.

[jsbt]

The women in the family emasculating the men is not exactly new for The Conners/Roseanne. They've been cutting David down since like '91.

[Janie430]

I don't think Darlene is being a hypocrite.  Both she and Becky had been in long-term relationships when they had sex for the first time.  Harris didn't seem to know the boy that well, and Darlene had never met him.  I think she can be concerned about her daughter having sex with a boy she's never met.

[tessaray]

It might just be my imagination but I thought that Darlene's crack about David being the daughter Roseanne always wanted actually had a tinge of jealousy underlying the snark - especially with the looks they gave each other. It didn't go over well in the previous season when she found out that Roseanne had been communicating with David about the kids. And David and Roseanne had their own relationship outside his standing as Darlene's boyfriend/husband. The writers and actors packed a lot of layers and continuity in that little scene.    

[jsbt]

I think Roseanne also made that exact joke about David once, long ago.

Her brief scene with Johnny Galecki last season was one of Roseanne's few great ones last time - she got emotional and told him she knew he was "a quality person". Barr and Galecki always had a great bond as well.

Edited October 25, 2018 by jsbt

[roughing it]

7 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

I thought casting Juliette Lewis was a fun nod to Christmas Vacation whether it was on purpose or not. 

HA!  Did not pick up on that....

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, roughing it said:

HA!  Did not pick up on that....

Nor I.  But that would be his sister.

[DangerousMinds]

8 hours ago, Melissa Glenson said:

Yeah. There's an interesting dilemma in scripting modern sitcoms - they want to appeal to many women by including jokes and remarks that supposedly "punch up" at men... but that upsets a lot of guys who feel that they are being attacked. It affects real life too - many women feel free to crack wise about guys and then act puzzled when a lot of guys don't give their ideas and beliefs support as a result.

Some guys have a thin skin and weak ego then.

[iMonrey]

Quote

They have also not retconned Jerry or Andy out of existence - Andy just hasn't come up onscreen and they've said as recently as spring they'll likely address him and Jerry (who was mentioned last season) in future. I don't know why people keep saying this. I'm perfectly willing to link to BTS articles mentioning him last season if I have to.

ETA: I went back and looked to see if there were more recent comments on this. To be clear, last season they did say they would probably get to Andy eventually. This season it's admittedly more ambivalent, but they have not said he's retconned out.

The actual quote is:  “And with regard to Jackie and Fred’s son, Helford says, “We debated whether Andy was part of the ‘dream period’ or whether he existed. He’d probably be off at college if he does exist.”

If he exists?. A character born in Season 6 should not be considered part of the "dream period." I would consider that period exclusive to Season 9, possibly beginning in late Season 8. But all the way back in Season 6? This is why they think they can just ignore that this character ever existed? I call BS on that. To me that's like pretending DJ or Bev or Crystal never existed, simply because you don't have any use for them in your story. That's lazy. Does Jackie strike anyone as the type who would never mention her son, regardless of what happened to him? I don't think so.

Quote

Does Johnny Galecki lower his voice for this role or raise it for "Big Bang Theory"? 

I think he simply has a different affectation for both characters. It's a whole host of little things, really, from vocal inflections to mannerisms to body posture. It's so subtle but it's so noticeable! 

[peacheslatour]

6 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Nor I.  But that would be his sister.

Audrey: "Do you sleep with your brother? Do you know how sick and twisted that is?"

Ellen: "Well, I'm sleeping with your father. Don't be so dramatic."

[DangerousMinds]

4 hours ago, BeachDays said:

I think sometimes jokes are just jokes-  she also said that boys are terrible bc they are practicing becoming men.   But the joke about David being the daughter she always wanted reminded me of Geena’s joke last week about going to hell-  Darlene laughed after that exchange, David laughed after this one.  

Yes, it was clearly just dry humor to me, and I love that.

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Yes, it was clearly just dry humor to me, and I love that.

DJ: I thought it was good to be a man.

Dan: Oh, no. Not since the late 60's, son

Breakin' Up Is Hard to Do [4.17]

Edited October 25, 2018 by peacheslatour

[Chaos Theory]

David is a good guy but he has never been a particularly strong one.  I don’t mean physically strong.  I mean emotionally strong.  Darleen might have liked that about him when they were dating but there is a huge difference between dating a guy and being married to one.  

 

Too bad Glenn Quinn died because I am more curious then ever what kind of long term husband Mark would have made to Becky and what their life might have been.  

Edited October 25, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[iMonrey]

Quote

There's an interesting dilemma in scripting modern sitcoms - they want to appeal to many women by including jokes and remarks that supposedly "punch up" at men... but that upsets a lot of guys who feel that they are being attacked. 

It's sad we still live in an age where characteristics that are traditionally associated with femininity are considered insults when applied to men. David was a sweet, caring and sensitive boy. Saying he was "like the daughter she never had" shouldn't be an insult. It meant he had all the qualities Roseanne had always hoped for in her daughters.

[CherryAmes]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

It's sad we still live in an age where characteristics that are traditionally associated with femininity are considered insults when applied to men. David was a sweet, caring and sensitive boy. Saying he was "like the daughter she never had" shouldn't be an insult.

I hate this too!  In an episode of a sitcom I like one woman insults a male character by saying "well he's quite a girl".  This was not meant to be a compliment.

[Bastet]

The "daughter she always wanted" comment was deeply rooted in David and Roseanne's relationship, which began because he was dating Darlene, but developed into so much more once he moved in with them - which is why it continued even when David and Darlene split, because he was her family on his own, completely separate from his relationship to Darlene.  David talked to Roseanne, confided in her, sought her counsel, a lot.  That wasn't the relationship she had with her daughters; she had good ones with them, just different from the stereotypical mother/daughter, TV-perfect one Roseanne always jokingly wanted.  So it's a perfect joke to classify David as the daughter she always wanted, and there's also a sweet truth in it, acknowledging that Roseanne died loving him, even if he's estranged from the family as a whole.

[CherryAmes]

1 minute ago, Bastet said:

So it's a perfect joke to classify David as the daughter she always wanted, and there's also a sweet truth in it, acknowledging that Roseanne died loving him, even if he's estranged from the family as a whole.

I agree with you here but coming from Darlene it was not a commentary on the loving relationship David had with Roseanne it was a snarky comment on how David was girlish - and I don't think she saw it as a positive.

[Bastet]

Well, it's Darlene.  There's always a layer of snark included with any other sentiment.  And I'm sure their relationship, rejecting stereotypical gender roles, continued to be a longstanding source of kidding among the whole family, just as it had been during the years we saw them.  Mark was the only one truly putting David down when he did it.  (With Dan, there was a little bit of something there, but it was really just about how he had trouble relating to him, whereas Mark he understood.)

If Darlene thought David's stereotypically feminine characteristics were inappropriate/unappealing in a man - like Mark did - she wouldn't have fallen in love with, married, had kids with, stayed married to, and still care about him the way she does.  She teases him.  She has some real problems with his behavior these days.  But the woman who married David and who's so accepting of Mark (the younger) is not in the "Eww, you're a girlie man" crowd.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Bastet