S04.E16: I Have a Date Tonight

[dubbel zout]

Update on 3/21: For whatever reason, it's been impossible to find an episode description for this. I'll add it when I finally do. 

ETA: Okay, it's not exactly a description, but here's what I could find:

The three dates are happening. What each of the men does for their date with Rebecca proves their hearts are all in the right place and makes her final choice a little more difficult. If you have it set in your mind who Rebecca should end up with, this ep might change that. By the final two lines I think I was more smitten than Rebecca and I definitely felt swayed towards someone other than my original pick.

 

Some quick things to remember:

Even when you retire from stalking you never lose the skills.

$50 gets you more than parking.

Winning over Rebecca’s best friend will take more than fish.

It’s very hard to get poop out of wicker.

No, that bowtie was never straight.

Perfection is an illusion.

[dubbel zout]

Weird Al Yankovich! I'm kind of surprised he wasn't on the show until now, but it was worth the wait to hear him say, "Very hard to get poop out of wicker."

[taragel]

Welp. That had some pretty clear arrows pointing to Greg. Which...even if it was Santino, I still don't think I'd be feeling. 😕 I really hope they surprise us with the finale. (Although I suppose if the moral all along was "she just needs a more realistic idea of what love should be like" then Greg is really the only choice. There's too much nostalgia with Josh and too much white knight in Nathaniel.) 

But honestly...I'm really looking forward to the concert so much more than the actual finale. I'm so glad they're airing that. 

And White Josh finally rises! That was a really great number -- one of the best of the series -- though I always like the huge ensembles. I kind of hope there's one in the finale too, but I suspect it'll be lighter on songs with plot to tie up. (Rebecca still hasn't figured out her career dream.) 

I'm so ready for the concert though!

Edited March 30, 2019 by taragel

[Spartan Girl]

Everybody is WAY too invested in Rebecca's love life.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I'm still team Nathan.  Second choice is for her to make no choice at all, because, hey, this is the new(ish) Millennium.

I loved White Josh's Guys N Dolls inspired Number.  I feel like I am going to miss the musical numbers more than anything else.

[SomeTameGazelle]

17 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Everybody is WAY too invested in Rebecca's love life.

I was dreading that based on the preview from last week, but the combination of Rebecca framing it as stupid like the Bachelor, Dr Akopian telling her it was okay if she wanted to go on the dates (and okay if she wanted to back out) with White Josh's song amidst the over-the-top gambling insanity made me somehow appreciate it for what it was. (Rebecca's reprise of the song before she ran into Greg was exquisite.)

Josh's date was really lovely. Nathaniel's date was supposed to be equally lovely but it was meh to me. Weird Al's reprise of "Where's the Bathroom" made me pause the recording and laugh out loud for a ridiculously long time, and Greg's discomfort with the date was honestly the first time I have liked Skylar in the role. Storywise I liked that they went low-key with the intimacy between Greg and Rebecca after the high-flown romance with Josh and Nathaniel. After that I have a hard time seeing any options for the finale other than Greg or no one, and I can be ok with that.

[srpturtle80]

Tonight I learned that the “priest school - pre school” joke will never fail to make me LOL. I do love how they are working so many callbacks to previous episodes in to these last few. 

Speaking of which, when the preview for the “series finale” came on I legitimately got tears in my eyes. I’m just not ready...

Edited March 30, 2019 by srpturtle80

[Caseysgirl]

Even though the storytelling has gotten a bit weak, I will always love the absolute brilliance of all the musical numbers. I would definitely watch an entire series of just the musical numbers.

[Cthulhudrew]

I have to say, NuGreg has really grown on me. I still love Santino, but I like the way Skylar has put his own spin on the character.

(I would love to see them bring Santino back and have a musical duo where Greg is wrestling with his inner turmoils. Call it "Beside Myself.")

If tonight was the sole episode to judge Rebecca's future Mr. by, then her date with Josh was the clear winner. The chemistry between the two of them was palpable, and the date was incredibly sweet and romantic. Greg, of course, gets second best because the two of them have a very "best friend" vibe, and that could make for a better long-term relationship in the end. I wasn't feeling her date with Nathanial at all, though, and I like Nathaniel much better than Josh by far. The two of them have had much better chemistry in the past, too, but not in this episode.

I am kind of annoyed that the live quadrangle seems to be the end-game for the series, when I think there were so many better stories and ways to bring things to a close. The writers could still pull a switch somehow, of course.

[Yeah No]

I'm having an "Is that all there is?" feeling knowing that the end is so near.  I was always about which guy she ended up with but somehow the show ending with a "Gee which one should I pick?" dilemma takes all the joy out of it for me and makes it feel somewhat fake.  I feel like they could have made her choice smoother and more obvious to the audience by now.  This for me just trivializes the entire series in some ways and almost makes me really want her to end up alone in spite of myself.  Or maybe getting me to that point was their intention in the first place.  I don't know.  I just think that no matter which way she goes at this point I'm likely to be somewhat disappointed.

[possibilities]

I was sickened by the whole set up. Everyone, including Rebecca, her therapist, her friends, and the guys who want to "win" her, was acting like a woman is a prize you can win. They used to know better. It's like the entire show was thrown out and rebooted this season as an imposter-- same actors, unrecognizeable themes.

I did like the big song and dance number, but that's because I thought it was leading to everyone realizing they were full of shit and knocking it off. When I realized they were celebrating their depravity and embracing it, I wanted to barf.

[NUguy514]

Show, I don't need the wink-wink about Greg being a different actor (har har) because he's basically a new character to me, and I have no investment in him because Greg left a few years ago and this new guy is not Greg (notGreg?).  Having all signs point to him there at the end as being The One doesn't really work for me because he's notGreg.  I don't care about him, I don't think he and Rebecca have any chemistry, and I would be really disappointed if you ended with her picking him.  This is not to say I want her with Nathaniel or Josh, though, because I've always envisioned Rebecca choosing (emphasis on that word) herself.

[bijoux]

It's really too bad they couldn't find something else for the guys to interact and squabble over, because if I ignore the background, I actually really liked their scene at the beginning and the one between Josh and Nathaniel at the end. A lightning bolt. I mean, I do like the guy. Hee. 

Josh is the biggest idiot of them all. If you're going to partake in this weirdness, at least move out beforehand, so you don't have to look at Rebecca getting ready for her other dates, dum dum. 

While the ending does point towards Greg, the big song (definite highlight of the episode) mentions the collective mind deciding. The last time that was mentioned was when everybody was trying to get Daryl and WhiJo back together. And we know how that ended up. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

LOVED the Guys & Dolls number! What made me sad is that this number showed how much talent we have in the cast and that they haven't really been showcasing it as well as they could have all along. Paula can tap dance! Valencia can do fouettés!

While I get why Hector encouraged Greg to be nice to Paula in order to win some points with Rebecca, what they actually did just showed how stupid these two are. You saw that Paula needed 60 servings of salmon for her son's baseball banquet so you made all this fish, threw it on two trays with some saran wrap, and then BROUGHT IT TO HER AT WORK? Where, pray tell, did you think she was going to store that? Do you think there's room in the communal refrigerator for two huge serving platters of fish which she then has to transport to her house after work? THINK, man.

Ha, I loved that Nathaniel took her to a place with a smog-covered view. Points for accuracy, show. I remember when I lived in LA it was always smoggy like that. The first time it rained really hard, it temporarily cleared away the smog and I saw that there was a mountain RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET that I'd never seen through the thick smog.

I cracked up over Darryl and Jim bonding over both loving Marty Macaroon.

WEIRD AL!!!!

Nitpick #1: it costs a lot more than $50 for a hot air balloon ride. Nitpick #2: there are a lot of places to do hot air balloon rides in LA/OC that are closer to West Covina than Temecula.

Loved Josh and Nathaniel drinking wine together and discussing Greg's death. It kind of made me want a spinoff of the wacky adventures of Josh and Nathaniel. They could go on road trips together! Be roommates!

6 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

(I would love to see them bring Santino back and have a musical duo where Greg is wrestling with his inner turmoils. Call it "Beside Myself.")

OMG, YES!!

[andipandi]

I think Weird Al made the price magically $50 to be convenient. Or maybe they were running a Groupon.

[Marianna]

 I just sort of don’t get this? It has to be Nathaniel, or someone she’s never met yet. Josh is not a person you share your life with if you’re Rebecca. He would not be an equal partner to her. Greg… Is not the answer. I think the theme show episode – I really didn’t agree with how they framed it. He was being a jerk. You try to enjoy things that your partner likes occasionally, and if you can’t enjoy them, then you don’t act like a jerk and ruin their good time. And that’s how he is all the time. Further, were they ever even really a couple? They were sleeping together, but I felt like they were not in a real relationship. Greg has made Rebecca feel bad about herself for most of their relationship. Nathaniel is her intellectual match, they are consistently drawn  to one another, and he’s evolved into a “better person”. If it has to be one of the three of them, he’s the best choice. Couldn’t care less how the dates went. 

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, srpturtle80 said:

Tonight I learned that the “priest school - pre school” joke will never fail to make me LOL. I do love how they are working so many callbacks to previous episodes in to these last few. 

My favorite part was how the whole group was like, "Oh, priest school!" as if this was the first time they'd heard it. (For some it was, but it's also been a great running joke.)

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I cracked up over Darryl and Jim bonding over both loving Marty Macaroon.

I cracked up at Rebecca telling Nathaniel there's no way she wouldn't love someone named Macaroon.

I think the obviousness of Rebecca choosing Greg is a red herring. At least I hope it is. I'd rather she choose none of the three, tbh. Or decide that she was going to date other guys for a while. Or not date anyone at all. She still has work to do on herself, and the way she throws herself into relationships will interfere with that. I know she's come a long way and is much more self-aware, but she has a tendency to backslide, so I'd like to see her stronger before she commits to someone.

[Marianna]

Want to add ... would be a bit annoyed by a “Kelly-Taylor-I-choose-myself”, not because it isn’t a valid choice for Rebecca to be on her own or look for someone else or whatever. But because the show chose to set it up that way, when it was unnecessary. This is the entire reason they brought back Greg, which was unnecessary. And it’s  sweet that Rebecca and Josh became friends, but very unlikely that he’d decide he was in love with her, after everything. I feel like she should pick, or else what on earth was going on this season?  Of the three of them, only Nathaniel’s lingering feelings were really supported by the ongoing story. This story is pointless if she doesn’t pick one of them. 

[chaifan]

14 minutes ago, Marianna said:

 I just sort of don’t get this? It has to be Nathaniel, or someone she’s never met yet. Josh is not a person you share your life with if you’re Rebecca. He would not be an equal partner to her. Greg… Is not the answer. I think the theme show episode – I really didn’t agree with how they framed it. He was being a jerk. You try to enjoy things that your partner likes occasionally, and if you can’t enjoy them, then you don’t act like a jerk and ruin their good time. And that’s how he is all the time. Further, were they ever even really a couple? They were sleeping together, but I felt like they were not in a real relationship. Greg has made Rebecca feel bad about herself for most of their relationship. Nathaniel is her intellectual match, they are consistently drawn  to one another, and he’s evolved into a “better person”. If it has to be one of the three of them, he’s the best choice. Couldn’t care less how the dates went. 

I sort of agree, but for separate reasons.  It could have been Greg, and probably should be Greg, but (IMHO) Rebecca sleeping with Greg's dad killed any possibility of them having a relationship.  I hated that plot line when it occurred, and even though it's barely been mentioned since on screen I just can't see how anyone could get past that.  I agree that Greg & Rebecca didn't have a healthy relationship earlier on, but I could see now that they're both in healthier spots personally (sobriety/mental health treatment) that this could now work.  I loved how their non-date ended up - they get along now effortlessly.  It's just the sleeping with Greg's dad thing that screws them up for me.  ugh.

I don't think it will be, or should be Josh.  Again, too much way over the top behavior by both of them in the past.  And Josh is still a man child, and always will be.  They could be roommates forever, and great friends, but not romantic soulmates.

Nathaniel makes the most sense - it's the most sane relationship she's had of the three.  And I like how the character has been developed.  But to be honest?  They make a boring couple. 

My gut feeling is that there will be no choice in the end.

My pie in the sky wish?  That they end the show with a cliffhanger, have secretly filmed three separate endings, and you go on the internet to choose which one you want.  Each with it's own fabulous musical number to wrap it up. 

[Eolivet]

Well, this is sort of what HIMYM should've done if they were going to do the "stick to the original ending we had always planned for the show" ... ending.

I realize there's one episode left, but I don't see it. This whole episode made the episode that was actually a rom-com look like a ... sci-fi horror movie. It was rom-com from beginning to end for Rebecca and Greg. Oh, Greg is the only one who doesn't want to do the date! Oh, Greg's the only one who reaches out to Rebecca's friends -- with disastrous results! Oh, Greg doesn't do romance! Oh, the Josh and Nathaniel dates were "perfect" and "heaven" and the Greg non-date feels like two people already in a relationship and comfortable with each other and Greg's the only one to utter the L word (not some "it's destiny/we're meant to be" garbage).

It's Greg, because this show can talk self-improvement until the cows come home, but it's still a rom-com. And looking at the structure of the entire show, I can see it ...

... Except for the fact that they removed Greg from the narrative for two freaking seasons.

And if they were going to do their slightly improved Ted Mosby ending, then Nathaniel needed ... not to be there. Because I feel like they brought Nathaniel on as a Greg replacement (a Not-Josh, if you will), and then decided, "wait, let's go back to what we originally intended, had Greg stayed on the show." So, they blew up Nathaniel into The Fantasy, he's the Dream Date (tm). They ironed out all of his quirks and nuances. Heck, they dressed him in a freaking prince costume.

Josh is the nostalgic past, Nathaniel is the ideal future, but Greg is the perfectly imperfect present. And while I've never liked Greg (check my history on this site) for Rebecca, I can admit that this season, Greg is the one Rebecca chose for herself. The other two have pined after her, but Rebecca actively chose Greg, and then didn't choose Greg, because the rom-com was about 45 minutes from being done, and you always have to have the break-up before you realize your true love.

Rebecca had to improve herself and Greg had to improve himself, and this season, Greg is the only one with a storyline independent of Rebecca. Greg is a strong, independent (wo)man who don't need no (wo)man! And honestly, Josh vs Greg is a good story (fantasy vs reality). Bringing in Nathaniel muddies the waters, and once they'd decided on this "end game," I wish they'd just had Nathaniel leave at the beginning of season 4.

Because the writers can write their "Grebecca" rom-com all they want, but they can't ignore that Nathaniel was Rebecca's primary love interest for the last season and a half. It's like they want to sweep that under the rug because Rebecca wasn't healthy then, but ... it did happen. And there's a reason all great love stories are a choice between two suitors, not three. Heck, Nathaniel vs Josh (in the Greg-less world of seasons 2 and 3) is also a good story.

I doubt the Kelly Taylor ending now, given the last 15 minutes of this episode. Rebecca now loves herself and realizes she can love someone else, who loves her back. Maybe it won't be big and dramatic and "I ch-ch-choose you!", but I doubt she'll end the series getting tacos on East Cameron with anybody else.

And I mean ... okay, it's not a blue french horn. I just think if this was the journey they'd always intended, the writers could've given it a bit more narrative support (like mentioning Greg at all before he showed up again). But they didn't. But they could, if they'd wanted to.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Eolivet

[dubbel zout]

7 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

This whole episode made the episode that was actually a rom-com look like a ... sci-fi horror movie.

There is a school of thought that rom-coms are actually horror movies, so you're not that far off. 😉

[bijoux]

16 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

Well, this is sort of what HIMYM should've done if they were going to do the "stick to the original ending we had always planned for the show" ... ending.

I realize there's one episode left, but I don't see it. This whole episode made the episode that was actually a rom-com look like a ... sci-fi horror movie. It was rom-com from beginning to end for Rebecca and Greg. Oh, Greg is the only one who doesn't want to do the date! Oh, Greg's the only one who reaches out to Rebecca's friends -- with disastrous results! Oh, Greg doesn't do romance! Oh, the Josh and Nathaniel dates were "perfect" and "heaven" and the Greg non-date feels like two people already in a relationship and comfortable with each other and Greg's the only one to utter the L word (not some "it's destiny/we're meant to be" garbage).

It's Greg, because this show can talk self-improvement until the cows come home, but it's still a rom-com. And looking at the structure of the entire show, I can see it ...

... Except for the fact that they removed Greg from the narrative for two freaking seasons.

And if they were going to do their slightly improved Ted Mosby ending, then Nathaniel needed ... not to be there. Because I feel like they brought Nathaniel on as a Greg replacement (a Not-Josh, if you will), and then decided, "wait, let's go back to what we originally intended, had Greg stayed on the show." So, they blew up Nathaniel into The Fantasy, he's the Dream Date (tm). They ironed out all of his quirks and nuances. Heck, they dressed him in a freaking prince costume.

Josh is the nostalgic past, Nathaniel is the ideal future, but Greg is the perfectly imperfect present. And while I've never liked Greg (check my history on this site) for Rebecca, I can admit that this season, Greg is the one Rebecca chose for herself. The other two have pined after her, but Rebecca actively chose Greg, and then didn't choose Greg, because the rom-com was about 45 minutes from being done, and you always have to have the break-up before you realize your true love.

Rebecca had to improve herself and Greg had to improve himself, and this season, Greg is the only one with a storyline independent of Rebecca. Greg is a strong, independent (wo)man who don't need no (wo)man! And honestly, Josh vs Greg is a good story (fantasy vs reality). Bringing in Nathaniel muddies the waters, and once they'd decided on this "end game," I wish they'd just had Nathaniel leave at the beginning of season 4.

Because the writers can write their "Grebecca" rom-com all they want, but they can't ignore that Nathaniel was Rebecca's primary love interest for the last season and a half. It's like they want to sweep that under the rug because Rebecca wasn't healthy then, but ... it did happen. And there's a reason all great love stories are a choice between two suitors, not three. Heck, Nathaniel vs Josh (in the Greg-less world of seasons 2 and 3) is also a good story.

I doubt the Kelly Taylor ending now, given the last 15 minutes of this episode. Rebecca now loves herself and realizes she can love someone else, who loves her back. Maybe it won't be big and dramatic and "I ch-ch-choose you!", but I doubt she'll end the series getting tacos on East Cameron with anybody else.

And I mean ... okay, it's not a blue french horn. I just think if this was the journey they'd always intended, the writers could've given it a bit more narrative support (like mentioning Greg at all before he showed up again). But they didn't. But they could, if they'd wanted to. 

Good one. 

[sweetcookieface]

I thought this was the first great episode in a while. I'm sick of the love quadrangle, but the betting plot made it feel a little more fun / less tired. And I LOVED the group number! They don't always work for me, but I thought this one utilized the cast really well (as noted above, so many hidden talents, like Paula's tap dancing!). I love that White Josh (one of my favorite secondary characters) finally got a lead number (I guess Fit Hot Guys kind of counts, but it was less memorable, and he and Nathaniel were co-leads on that). WhiJo's "JK, LOL" cracked me up, as did Father Brah's "I just talked to Jesus, and he said that it's cool."

I don't have strong feelings about who, if anyone, Rebecca ends up with. If Santino's Greg were still in the picture, he would be the obvious choice for me. As things currently stand, I think each guy has his pluses and minuses, so it would feel a bit anti-climactic and random for her to end up with any of them (especially New Greg). I guess at this point I'd prefer an ending where she doesn't choose any of them and just decides to work on herself (maybe she "chooses" Dr. Akopian or Paula/ her girl group).

And I know this was a minor sub-plot, but I cracked up at the competition to snag paper plates and plastic cutlery (and the losers getting stuck with kosher scones and salmon for 60). Whenever we have work functions,  the plates, cups and utensils are the first things people sign up for.

[DianeDobbler]

I am still gearing up to finish this episode but just want to say I agree with Yeah No and possibilities. There were natural / or organic ways to do this, but because they wanted to troll the audience all the way to the end, plus fan service, they chose this, and no amount of wink / wink we're calling ourselves out makes this legit or even a decent rom com. It is completely artificial - the actual premise is a WTF. She actually is unable to make up her mind which guy it should be? What is it she is basing it on, have we been told? So far it seems like an exercise in reading consumer reports to figure out which blender she should purchase. 

But, now the fan side of me. I think Nathaniel and Rebecca have perceived similar status, and that is all they have in common. Just Rebecca leaving Akopia's candy cane mocha store but first sitting in the big chair and swinging her legs is so her. I just feel people don't SEE her. She's a big kid. None of her closest friends are in the corporate world except Paula, and Paula's background is in no way similar to Rebecca, and Greg only re-started his life two years ago. I think Nathaniel and Rebecca have nothing in common, and their relationship was never sane. If I missed something, I am ready to stand corrected, but first it was a 50 Shades Revenge alliance plus sex while she was still obsessed with Josh. Then it was a brief period of dating and she pulled the plug due to her fears of repeating old patterns. Now I guess some of their partisans think THAT is the real relationship, but I do not. After that it was eight months of banging in a supply closet and then it was done. Where the "only sane relationship" part occurred I do not recall. He has recently concluded a "I'm nice now" phase that was as cartoonish and stunted as anything I've ever seen and if he were played by anyone but SMF (whose "type" coupled with Nathaniel's background renders it difficult sometimes to actually clock what he's doing) he would be creepy AF. 

I think Josh makes the most sense. I don't think Rebecca is an enormous intellect - she was extremely book smart but her emotional maturity is not light years ahead of his. Greg, I think, was taken out of serious consideration by how their recent reunion went. They had nothing in common and then she apparently kicked it into high romance mode so OTT even he commented on it (the walking repeatedly around the block, inability to spend a night alone, etc.) so we still haven't seen them conduct a successful relationship since Rebecca went into fantasy mode. I do think they have a successful friendship.

One of my issues with this show is they haven't built up other routes for the three guys, which I think is only fair to the characters. If it's not going to be Nathaniel, then someone like Maya should be in his corner giving him advice, etc. in a low key way so if he's not the winner, fans could think, "maybe that could be something once he wakes from his Rebecca haze." I wish Heather wasn't married so it could be the same with Greg. And Josh seems to have completely abandoned dating on the apps. So therefore once she makes a choice, we will have the other two guys, whom we are supposed to actually like and root for no matter what the outcome - brokenhearted. WAY too Mary Sue for me, but I think Aline Brosh Mckenna has always had that blind spot with Rebecca.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, DianeDobbler said:

She actually is unable to make up her mind which guy it should be? What is it she is basing it on, have we been told?

I think Rebecca truly doesn't know what she wants (or doesn't want, for that matter) in a partner, and that's why she can't decide.

The whiteboard in the previous episode laid out the pros and cons for each guy.

[seacliffsal]

I just haven't been able to get past the idea that three men would be competing for Rebecca after all of their experiences.  I also can't get past the idea that one person is a prize that the others are competing for.  Many moons ago I found out that a man I was seeing was seeing two other women.  When I confronted/spoke to him about he told me to compete for him to which I promptly told him that love isn't a prize.  Never looked back.

Having written that, I absolutely LOVED the group song.  I believe that most of the supporting cast was there and they were absolutely fabulous.  A wonderful take-off of Guys and Dolls and I was impressed with White Josh's singing.  This season has been sorely lacking in songs for me and I just loved this.  I thought it was very clever and that the staging was close to perfection.

As to the love interests-I would like to see it come full circle to Josh, but as I don't really care about love as a competition just don't really care.  Would love the final episode to be Donna presenting an amazing case in court with the help of Heather and Vanessa.  Yes, I know there's no way that would ever be, but as others are sharing thoughts about the final episode, I just thought that I would add my own hope for the episode...

[GenieinTX]

White Josh!  Loved Loved that number, it was so great.

Reading over this thread, it's funny.  Every guy has support - just like the show.  Everyone had a different opinion. 

I think Josh is a no go.  That's her past, that's who she used to be.  I think it's Greg, it's always been Greg.  However, Nathaniel would give her a good future, she'd be happy with him.  So I'm in for anyone but Josh.

[tennisgurl]

I was really into Greg/Rebecca for awhile, but now that Greg has been gone for so long, and its really still kind of hard for me to see him as Greg anymore, him being Rebecca's one true love just doesent work for me the way it used to. Plus, she did have sex with his dad. I mean...yeah.

I was waiting for someone to mention that Rebecca shouldn't be with Josh because their whole adult relationship began with her stalking him across the country and doing all sorts of dangerous and illegal stuff to get him to get with her. Yeah he did leave her at the altar (which, bad) but that relationship started off toxic from the second she moved to West Covina. I am into them as pals now, but I dont think I want to see an endgame romance between them. Its just too weird and icky a start for a show that is usually pretty self aware about these things. 

Nathaniel is, weirdly enough, the one she has the least weird baggage with, but is also the one I think she has the least in common with. He has grown a lot as a person since he started the show, but beyond their issues with their emotionally distant families, they dont really have a lot lot to build a relationship on. 

I think the show is going to end with Greg/Rebecca though, so...

The group number with White Josh as the lead was amazing! I love that we got to see almost all of the supporting cast in one big dance sequence together, with them all getting a chance to show their stuff, complete with Father Bruh telling us that, dont worry, he checked with Jesus and this is all cool with him! And White Josh finally gets a big number to lead! And a cool fedora! 

Weird Al with a reprise of Wheres the bathroom! Score!

[DianeDobbler]

On the Greg front, it would be helpful if when they had their reunion we saw it functioning. Instead it was "YOU'RE schmoopy!" "No, YOU'RE schmoopy." It wasn't just the fallout from Raging Waters that was the problem. The key scene came before that, with Rebecca and Greg walking around the block and Greg gently and pretty mildly pointing out that everything is OTT (constant hand-holding, can't spend a night apart, etc. Rebecca was even using baby talk).  In fact, one of the complaints I have with the show is they will drop a scene like that on us, but never follow up. It's erased by the big drama that comes next (Raging Waters). Kind of like the build-up, anxiety and absolute OTT crazy on Rebecca's part just prior to Josh and Rebecca's wedding was almost erased by him not showing up for it. IMO it's the stuff before that is important in both cases.

When I think about Rebecca and Greg, I can picture them of course hanging out at a restaurant or bar the way she does with her girlfriends, kind of reviewing the world.  But at home? For a woman who is so highly intelligent, she does not read. She LOVES the internet. She has massive appetites, she's an experience girl. She gets in there. Greg I can see coming home from work and wanting to read a book, or catch up with something related to the restaurant business while a restless Rebecca wants to have sex, or wants to be entertained, or wants him to snuggle up with her while she watches a nightime soap opera marathon. I've never seen Rebecca reading a book or enjoying classical music, both things I can see Greg liking. Nathaniel I can also see wanting to read or decompress by putting on the headphones and listening to ...modern heavy metal? Or doing a very structured workout in his home gym, and then going to a "lovely restaurant." For all of his being hung up on Rebecca, she hasn't changed him in a way that makes them more compatible. The stuff he likes to do and what he does with his time is all the same. He's learned empathy in structured situations, or so we're told. I think not having Greg process his short-lived reunion with Rebecca and take in how it played out and how Rebecca behaved was a cop out. I don't mean her acting out after Raging Waters, but the stuff before, which Greg was starting to clock. It was totally dropped after they split. None of these guys processed the actual relationship, which is very annoying.

Josh and she are not the same people as the stalkee and stalker. He's been in therapy for over a year. She's gotten help for her emotional illness. So what happened when he was less self-aware and she was sick aren't deal breakers. And saying that, to be fair, probably her sleeping with Marco isn't either as long as Greg can get past it, since she was sick. I mean that's HUGE, but intellectually Greg does get it, as he told Whijo awhile back. On a pure plot front, all three have deal breakers in their history.

There's a lot of material to develop, acknowledge and explore, and CXG hasn't done it. This entire season it has told us things instead of dramatizing them, and I think it was in the interest of protecting the "surprise" at the end, which is very cheap writing. Because CXG has been treading water, I have a lot of trouble understanding why all three are still hung up on the very specific Rebecca we've seen this season. 

 CXG is not the only clever, savvy show which has tried to pretend being self-aware is as good as strong writing and plotting. It's overdone, and at this point I can think of at least three shows that were creatively successful because of absolutely brilliant plotting, and then the writers started winking and cheaping out when the plot weakened, becoming overly contrived and results-oriented. I don't enjoy it anymore.

BTW shout out to Michael Hyatt yet again for her wonderful line deliveries. The wonderful beat after "hot tub" and before "slap fight" was terrific. AND her reaction to her client cornering her in her civilian space was absolutely perfect.

P.S. why would Donna have to drive car pool? Isn't her youngest son a little old for that at this point?

Edited March 30, 2019 by DianeDobbler

[Rhetorica]

Maybe we should each vote for Mr.  Right before the finale.  I can tally the votes.  

I'll say Nathaniel... 

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, DianeDobbler said:

P.S. why would Donna have to drive car pool? Isn't her youngest son a little old for that at this point?

If he's under 18, there are some driving restrictions. Aside from that, car pooling is convenient, especially if some parents can't make it to the game or have to arrive late.

The potluck dinner had me puzzled. I have a hard time thinking a bunch of teenagers are going to want poached salmon, and after the first year of it bombing, it's absurd it would still be an option. Salmon for 60 isn't cheap. Why not reserve a private room at a pizza parlor (or Home Base, ha!) or someplace similar? I'm sure the kids would prefer that anyway.

[willowk]

I loved the send up of the Bachelor/ette round robin dates, showing how silly it is to choose based on one night -although in this case she has known them all longer than the normal reality show. They were also tweaking us, the audience, for getting invested in the different guys (I'm team Nathaniel BTW). Am disappointed it looks like Greg the no fun guy is likely to win her heart, but I guess two of the three are destined to be hurt no matter what. Did like the production number immensely.

[angora]

5 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

One of my issues with this show is they haven't built up other routes for the three guys, which I think is only fair to the characters. If it's not going to be Nathaniel, then someone like Maya should be in his corner giving him advice, etc. in a low key way so if he's not the winner, fans could think, "maybe that could be something once he wakes from his Rebecca haze." I wish Heather wasn't married so it could be the same with Greg. And Josh seems to have completely abandoned dating on the apps. So therefore once she makes a choice, we will have the other two guys, whom we are supposed to actually like and root for no matter what the outcome - brokenhearted. WAY too Mary Sue for me, but I think Aline Brosh Mckenna has always had that blind spot with Rebecca.

This is exactly where I am - there's been very little to show what the guys will have going for them if Rebecca doesn't "choose" them.  Like, what else is up in Josh's life?  If Rebecca picks one of the other guys, I can't really imagine him continuing to be her roommate; that feels like just a little too hard to get around, at least right away.  Greg is probably in the best place, since he has the restaurant that he's getting off the ground and a newer appreciation for West Covina so he doesn't have quite the same chip on his shoulder that he used to.

But then, he's the one that seems most set up for "winning" right now.  After he and Rebecca got together so early and we had Nathaniel's rom-com episode, my money would've been on Nathaniel, but of the three guys in this episode, Greg was the only one with his own storyline, and between the complications, the easy intimacy of the great time they had hanging out at the repair shop/ordering tacos, and the "L-word" being thrown around, I really can't see her picking one of the other two at this point.

@DianeDobbler, I know you and I are usually on the same page when it comes to Josh, and we've both been frustrated with how the show has handled him at times.  I would want it to be him too, but honestly, it kind of bums me out to see him being presented here as equally plausible with the other two, because I don't think the buildup is there that there'd be any way Rebecca would actually choose Josh.  It feels like he's more the "it's an honor just to be nominated" addition, but the show is acting like it might be him just to heighten the suspense of eventually being Greg, or, IMO at this point, a little less likely Nathaniel.  While I'd be very happy to be proven wrong, I feel like they're just kind of toying with me.

All that said, I DID love the Guys & Dolls number, more proof that White Josh could've been in more songs this whole time.  It was great!  I loved the jokes, the colorful costumes, the dancing (look at Paula go!), and the always-welcome guest appearance from Father Brah.

[willowk]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I just haven't been able to get past the idea that three men would be competing for Rebecca after all of their experiences.  I also can't get past the idea that one person is a prize that the others are competing for.  Many moons ago I found out that a man I was seeing was seeing two other women.  When I confronted/spoke to him about he told me to compete for him to which I promptly told him that love isn't a prize.  Never looked back.

Having written that, I absolutely LOVED the group song.  I believe that most of the supporting cast was there and they were absolutely fabulous.  A wonderful take-off of Guys and Dolls and I was impressed with White Josh's singing.  This season has been sorely lacking in songs for me and I just loved this.  I thought it was very clever and that the staging was close to perfection.

As to the love interests-I would like to see it come full circle to Josh, but as I don't really care about love as a competition just don't really care.  Would love the final episode to be Donna presenting an amazing case in court with the help of Heather and Vanessa.  Yes, I know there's no way that would ever be, but as others are sharing thoughts about the final episode, I just thought that I would add my own hope for the episode...

Totally agree, in fact I wrote something similar a couple of episodes ago, why do they all adore her so? Especially Josh after they way Rebecca terrorized him. I'm surprised they've become close friends again even. I've had not the same thing happen to me but somewhat similar where someone I was close to did a lot of horrid things during a breakdown (bipolar). Our friendship never recovered although I would say I have forgiven him what happened.

Beyond the production number, my favorite storyline this episode was Rebecca stalking her therapist. I loved her saying "Help me" after Rebecca left the bar. She got a small taste of what Rebecca can dish out when she's motivated. I think the show lost something essential when Rebecca got her psychological issues under control. I'm happy she's well. But in terms of a TV show, was more interesting when you thought she could go off the rails at any moment.

[DianeDobbler]

Angora, I just can't help feeling that CXG has underwritten Josh in order to spring the "surprise!" on us with him being IT at the end, and then they're going to lecture us, which is going to piss me off so much. Sure, on most shows he would definitely be "it's an honor to be nominated" and the writing has born that out, BUT, I don't trust the writing. He's the only one of the three in therapy. Considering they've done absolute SHIT with that but TELL us he was, I can't help feeling that's going to end up a "See, if you'd been paying ATTENTION" move.  Whatever guy it ends up being, my problem is all three have been undeveloped and underwritten in order to preserve the "element of surprise".

And while, as usual, Greg has probably gotten the MOST writing, they wrote nothing in terms of him processing his and Rebecca's most recent romantic reunion. The writing showed us it was not grounded. She was still in her "Romance is a fix!" phase, and Greg was beginning to call it out, in a low key way. They broke up after Raging Waters, but didn't show Greg reflect at all on the relationship they'd had until then. If this were a different show, they'd be a female friend in the background, and he's be like, "I thought she was it, but now I realize I was blinded by my obsession." So, if Greg is The One, how are they going to sell us their recent reunion and the warning flags that popped up? We're supposed to forget it because she's the love of his life? At the least, we needed a scene of him processing their short-lived reunion, but he did NOTHING. There was STUFF there. Why was it there, if it's nothing?

This is where the show has truly cheated. Looking back, I see Josh and Rebecca as the most compatible, but of course, she was sick during most of it, and CXG hasn't told us what part of it was an organic compatibility and what part of it was Rebecca's illness.

Nathaniel. This is the one that bugs me the most. First of all, I think if Nathaniel had been cast with Vincent Rodriguez III, he'd have been driven off CXG the second he said he was exterminating Josh's dad and exporting his grandad or whatever (particularly if Josh were played by SMF). And the relationship itself, so screwed up the entire time. FINE. But to spend an entire season of Nathaniel mourning something that never happened -someone point out to me the emotionally available and unconditional love phase of their relationship. And truly, SMF/Nathaniel doesn't seem THAT invested. He's like two steps from going on the apps himself and being ok. Sure, they had him cry/sob, gave him his own episode, but in general I'm not buying it. And now that he's nice, I don't buy that his alternatives are sort of either probably an anemic Mona type or the full-blooded Rebecca. Nah. 

Which brings me to, Rebecca is my problem here, which brings me to, the writing is my problem here. If the writing were strong, we'd KNOW why Rebecca was doing this, but I, personally don't. She is much better. She kind of quit re the apps after the Jason thing kept messing up, but WHY? It was one guy - there are other guys out there. She hasn't seemed desperate for love or thinking her bio clock was running down. ALL of this appears to be in response to somehow the guys deciding, and I don't get it, and it appears to be sloppy, not very feminist, and an icky fit for CXG. Not what I expected because Rebecca is not really a driver in this, and for God's sake, if not CXG, what show will do it?

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

The potluck dinner had me puzzled. I have a hard time thinking a bunch of teenagers are going to want poached salmon, and after the first year of it bombing, it's absurd it would still be an option. Salmon for 60 isn't cheap. Why not reserve a private room at a pizza parlor (or Home Base, ha!) or someplace similar? I'm sure the kids would prefer that anyway.

While that would make sense as long as all the special food needs of the students could be met.  But I loved the joke because who hasn't been a part of a pot luck where there's a signup sheet and pressure to bring something different?  It's hard to think of a "different" dish when you're the thirtieth person to sign up. Or think of how many parties/potlucks have a barely touched veggie and dip platter but nevertheless, we don't ever want to give up the pretense that someone might want something healthy so it still gets brought.   

9 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I think Rebecca truly doesn't know what she wants (or doesn't want, for that matter) in a partner, and that's why she can't decide.

I think that could be true.  I also think she might be afraid of deciding.  The last time she chose to be in a relationship, with Greg, she ended up riding that new relationship energy instead of focusing on her mental health. 

11 hours ago, sweetcookieface said:

I don't have strong feelings about who, if anyone, Rebecca ends up with. If Santino's Greg were still in the picture, he would be the obvious choice for me.

That's where I am.  Even though I can logically come up with reasons why she shouldn't be with Greg (and any of the guys), the truth is, if Santino were here, I wouldn't care.  Their scenes this season would have made me very happy.  And I still have a nostalgic affection for the character even though the new actor just doesn't quite fill the void. 

12 hours ago, Eolivet said:

And I mean ... okay, it's not a blue french horn. I just think if this was the journey they'd always intended, the writers could've given it a bit more narrative support (like mentioning Greg at all before he showed up again). But they didn't. But they could, if they'd wanted to.

They did mention Greg when he butt dialed her.  And then she....slept with his dad.

[Empress1]

20 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Having written that, I absolutely LOVED the group song.  I believe that most of the supporting cast was there and they were absolutely fabulous.  A wonderful take-off of Guys and Dolls and I was impressed with White Josh's singing.  This season has been sorely lacking in songs for me and I just loved this.  I thought it was very clever and that the staging was close to perfection.

Yeah, it was great. There was a moment where Valencia was twirling and it was fantastic. I also cracked up when Heather kicked the chair after Josh's date. Actually all the supporting characters betting was great - best part of the episode for me because I don't care who she picks.

I wish the fuck I would be required to bring salmon for 60 to a baseball banquet. I CAN; I just would not. I'd take some of my new big corporate law salary and go right to the nearest caterer. (And why the fuck did Greg bring that salmon to Paula's job? Where was she supposed to put it?)

I also enjoyed how Dr. Akopian was all eye-roll-y about Rebecca's stalking.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Empress1

[DianeDobbler]

Yeah, the salmon was stupid. First of all, it's not what you do for that type of event, and it's clearly the most expensive thing. They tried to just make jokes about bitchy, competitive moms which is just another way CXG has dived face first into predictability. With her new salary Paula would just order the salmon delivered to the event, and done. Why weren't those jokes made anyway? Set the audience up to expect the cliche of harassed moms slaving away in the kitchen and then upend it by showing the scones person on the phone to a kosher bakery? And why was it all moms? Fathers actually do participate in this stuff, including the potluck parts.

When Rebecca got all dressed up for her date with Nathaniel I thought it was gross. The premise of this whole thing is really disgusting. How is this believable? I don't mean realistic - it's a comedy. But believable, with an internal logic to it?  So her first date is with Josh and its super intimate, they kiss, fall asleep in each other's arms. Then she resets and goes on another date with another guy where it's basically the same beats. Again, gross. Is this how intimacy works? It isn't. It's like the ability to generate it with three guys in three days just damages the credibility of ANY Of the relationships, not to mention Rebecca's own emotional credibility. I don't know how it's possible to believe in whoever she chooses. I feel like if two of the guys conveniently vaporized she'd be perfectly happy with who was left.

Furthermore, they really haven't told us why she's doing this other than "the guys want me to" which is a WTF. The last time she discussed needing to get laid/wanting to date it was Jason, and when that didn't work out she what? Dropped it? All season she's had little flickers of sexual/romantic attraction for both Nathaniel and Josh, and then Greg came in and he was folded in. BUT CXG has not told us what those flickers mean, particularly not laid out why she'd be having them for all the guys. They went WAY too meta, forgot to have this be believable for a single, particular woman, and it's all about running versions of Rebecca with each guy according to fan factions. In the process, Rebecca has lost her credibility. I also think it's trolling. The character should be more important than the meta parts. They've gotten the storytelling values completely bolloxed.

P.S. While Bloom and McKenna have lectured us about capital "R" romance in media, the damage it does, and how that type of heightened feeling is only chemical, I don't believe an emotionally truthful presentation of male/female relationships is "It could plausibly be any of these three guys I know and probably Jason too."  Not plausibly any of them all at the same time.

Especially when the TEST of which guy it should be is heightened romantic dates. And no, Greg didn't have the rom com date, except he did. Their date was just as much a heightened romantic scenario we've all seen a thousand times. It could have been a kitchen where a meal he was preparing was ruined and they ordered take-out, or any one of a number of "fantasy destroyed but what we did instead was even MORE romantic!" scenarios I've seen dozens of time from soap operas to ancient famous films.

I think the execution of the premises they've apparently established were poorly done. AND they've been far too conscious of the audience instead of just doing their job and developing these characters and themes this season. They have shown not enough faith in their own show and their own leading lady as they apparently believe that The Guy is the only way they can hold interest until the finale. They really have fallen into the HIMYM trap. I thought they were savvier than that. 

PPS, and I get that if they want to make the point that oh the other dates were romantic in upper case and the Greg "date" was a non-date with no making out, just people connecting (which is its own cliche done a million times, most often in rom coms similar to the one that was satirized in Nathaniel's special episode), what does that prove? She has known Josh for years, Greg for years, Nathaniel for at least a couple of years now, and she's been with all of them in NON heightened romantic situations. She's had relatively reality based, just human-to-human encounters with all three. So what would the two Romantic dates pitted against her and Greg's non-romantic date prove about her relationship with any of the guys? I guess again, I think CXG has lost the specificity and history of the characters in favor of some kind of weird academic point.

Edited March 31, 2019 by DianeDobbler

[willowk]

26 minutes ago, DianeDobbler said:

Yeah, the salmon was stupid. First of all, it's not what you do for that type of event, and it's clearly the most expensive thing. They tried to just make jokes about bitchy, competitive moms which is just another way CXG has dived face first into predictability. With her new salary Paula would just order the salmon delivered to the event, and done. Why weren't those jokes made anyway? Set the audience up to expect the cliche of harassed moms slaving away in the kitchen and then upend it by showing the scones person on the phone to a kosher bakery? And why was it all moms? Fathers actually do participate in this stuff, including the potluck parts.

When Rebecca got all dressed up for her date with Nathaniel I thought it was gross. The premise of this whole thing is really disgusting. How is this believable? I don't mean realistic - it's a comedy. But believable, with an internal logic to it?  So her first date is with Josh and its super intimate, they kiss, fall asleep in each other's arms. Then she resets and goes on another date with another guy where it's basically the same beats. Again, gross. Is this how intimacy works? It isn't. It's like the ability to generate it with three guys in three days just damages the credibility of ANY Of the relationships, not to mention Rebecca's own emotional credibility. I don't know how it's possible to believe in whoever she chooses. I feel like if two of the guys conveniently vaporized she'd be perfectly happy with who was left.

Furthermore, they really haven't told us why she's doing this other than "the guys want me to" which is a WTF. The last time she discussed needing to get laid/wanting to date it was Jason, and when that didn't work out she what? Dropped it? All season she's had little flickers of sexual/romantic attraction for both Nathaniel and Josh, and then Greg came in and he was folded in. BUT CXG has not told us what those flickers mean, particularly not laid out why she'd be having them for all the guys. They went WAY too meta, forgot to have this be believable for a single, particular woman, and it's all about running versions of Rebecca with each guy according to fan factions. In the process, Rebecca has lost her credibility. I also think it's trolling. The character should be more important than the meta parts. They've gotten the storytelling values completely bolloxed.

P.S. While Bloom and McKenna have lectured us about capital "R" romance in media, the damage it does, and how that type of heightened feeling is only chemical, I don't believe an emotionally truthful presentation of male/female relationships is "It could plausibly be any of these three guys I know and probably Jason too."  Not plausibly any of them all at the same time.

Especially when the TEST of which guy it should be is heightened romantic dates. And no, Greg didn't have the rom com date, except he did. Their date was just as much a heightened romantic scenario we've all seen a thousand times. It could have been a kitchen where a meal he was preparing was ruined and they ordered take-out, or any one of a number of "fantasy destroyed but what we did instead was even MORE romantic!" scenarios I've seen dozens of time from soap operas to ancient famous films.

I think the execution of the premises they've apparently established were poorly done. AND they've been far too conscious of the audience instead of just doing their job and developing these characters and themes this season. They have shown not enough faith in their own show and their own leading lady as they apparently believe that The Guy is the only way they can hold interest until the finale. They really have fallen into the HIMYM trap. I thought they were savvier than that. 

So many shows fail to "stick the landing" and it really looks like Crazy Ex Girlfriend is going to land in the failure column. How many great shows fizzle before the end? Many more than not IMO. My guess is that we are going to get one of those cliche mega fast forwards at the end showing how all the characters end up and the 2 rejected guys end up happy with other women. Actually would be fun if she decided not to choose and formed a polyandrous 4-some with them all living in a compound in, of course, West Corvina.

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, DianeDobbler said:

Yeah, the salmon was stupid. First of all, it's not what you do for that type of event, and it's clearly the most expensive thing. They tried to just make jokes about bitchy, competitive moms which is just another way CXG has dived face first into predictability. With her new salary Paula would just order the salmon delivered to the event, and done. Why weren't those jokes made anyway? Set the audience up to expect the cliche of harassed moms slaving away in the kitchen and then upend it by showing the scones person on the phone to a kosher bakery? And why was it all moms? Fathers actually do participate in this stuff, including the potluck parts.

When Rebecca got all dressed up for her date with Nathaniel I thought it was gross. The premise of this whole thing is really disgusting. How is this believable? I don't mean realistic - it's a comedy. But believable, with an internal logic to it?  So her first date is with Josh and its super intimate, they kiss, fall asleep in each other's arms. Then she resets and goes on another date with another guy where it's basically the same beats. Again, gross. Is this how intimacy works? It isn't. It's like the ability to generate it with three guys in three days just damages the credibility of ANY Of the relationships, not to mention Rebecca's own emotional credibility. I don't know how it's possible to believe in whoever she chooses. I feel like if two of the guys conveniently vaporized she'd be perfectly happy with who was left.

Furthermore, they really haven't told us why she's doing this other than "the guys want me to" which is a WTF. The last time she discussed needing to get laid/wanting to date it was Jason, and when that didn't work out she what? Dropped it? All season she's had little flickers of sexual/romantic attraction for both Nathaniel and Josh, and then Greg came in and he was folded in. BUT CXG has not told us what those flickers mean, particularly not laid out why she'd be having them for all the guys. They went WAY too meta, forgot to have this be believable for a single, particular woman, and it's all about running versions of Rebecca with each guy according to fan factions. In the process, Rebecca has lost her credibility. I also think it's trolling. The character should be more important than the meta parts. They've gotten the storytelling values completely bolloxed.

P.S. While Bloom and McKenna have lectured us about capital "R" romance in media, the damage it does, and how that type of heightened feeling is only chemical, I don't believe an emotionally truthful presentation of male/female relationships is "It could plausibly be any of these three guys I know and probably Jason too."  Not plausibly any of them all at the same time.

Especially when the TEST of which guy it should be is heightened romantic dates. And no, Greg didn't have the rom com date, except he did. Their date was just as much a heightened romantic scenario we've all seen a thousand times. It could have been a kitchen where a meal he was preparing was ruined and they ordered take-out, or any one of a number of "fantasy destroyed but what we did instead was even MORE romantic!" scenarios I've seen dozens of time from soap operas to ancient famous films.

I think the execution of the premises they've apparently established were poorly done. AND they've been far too conscious of the audience instead of just doing their job and developing these characters and themes this season. They have shown not enough faith in their own show and their own leading lady as they apparently believe that The Guy is the only way they can hold interest until the finale. They really have fallen into the HIMYM trap. I thought they were savvier than that. 

PPS, and I get that if they want to make the point that oh the other dates were romantic in upper case and the Greg "date" was a non-date with no making out, just people connecting (which is its own cliche done a million times, most often in rom coms similar to the one that was satirized in Nathaniel's special episode), what does that prove? She has known Josh for years, Greg for years, Nathaniel for at least a couple of years now, and she's been with all of them in NON heightened romantic situations. She's had relatively reality based, just human-to-human encounters with all three. So what would the two Romantic dates pitted against her and Greg's non-romantic date prove about her relationship with any of the guys? I guess again, I think CXG has lost the specificity and history of the characters in favor of some kind of weird academic point.

All good points and your posts makes me expect Rebecca ending up single once again. Maybe the thing that's causing us confusion actually IS the point - there is nothing seperating one of the guys ftom the herd, there's no initiative on Rebecca's end, just following the rules they guys have set out (which, blergh). 

I would have enjoyed this stretch more if they had seperated the guys from Rebecca because I truly have enjoyed some of their scenes and then, have Rebecca run into one of them and a happy romantic ending implied in the finale if that is the planned outcome. 

[HappyBerry]

On 3/29/2019 at 11:20 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

(I would love to see them bring Santino back and have a musical duo where Greg is wrestling with his inner turmoils. Call it "Beside Myself.")

I love that idea, but the reprise of "What'll It Be" really highlighted how Skylar's voice would not fare well in a side by side comparison with Santino's. 

[DianeDobbler]

I had another realization, which is that while for Rebecca it could be any of these three guys or it could be some other guy, or Jason could come back, CXG has told us for all three guys it is Rebecca and only Rebecca. Nathaniel hasn't been with her in over a year, maybe longer. Josh, a couple of years, Greg more recently, but prior to his return a couple of years.

Remember "We'll Never Have Problems Again"? "Obsession scientifically lasts four years at most." Bloom has discussed the specific chemical that is released at the height of sexual and romantic attraction - it's like a drug.

But with the guys, it's presented straight up. CXG is telling us, this is what love looks like. This is how they've proved themselves worthy of Rebecca. The inability to consider any other woman, even when YEARS go by.  This is love.  These three guys, not doing a single thing to achieve healthy non-Rebecca intimate lives even when cast aside, are apparently not unhealthy men who are dubious candidates for a healthy, grown-up, committed relationship, but rather men who have proved their devotion and earned Rebecca's in return. She, OTOH, has nothing but options and is happy to consider them all.

And her therapist co-signs all this without a qualm. If I had an ex who never so much as went out on a date or had a one night stand in the two years we were split, because if he couldn't have me he didn't want anyone, I would think there was something wrong with him and seriously hesitate about getting back together. 

[springbarb]

I'm just hoping that the finale addresses Rebecca's life outside her love life. So she picks Josh or Nathaniel or Greg...or no one even. But then she still needs to figure out what she wants. Musical theater wasn't the answer she thought it was. Does she decide to throw herself into Rebetzel's? Working with the women in jail? Something else? At this point, that's what I want to know, much more than what guy she picks.

[Yeah No]

On 3/30/2019 at 11:18 AM, chaifan said:

My pie in the sky wish?  That they end the show with a cliffhanger, have secretly filmed three separate endings, and you go on the internet to choose which one you want.  Each with it's own fabulous musical number to wrap it up. 

Hah, I had that thought too.  Choose your own ending.  At this point I'd be OK with that.

I agree with those that said Nathaniel would make the most sense, and that he represented the future, while Josh was the past and Greg was the present.  Let's face it, Josh is a dolt and not on her level.  Plus the way she acted with him on  her date showed me she knew being with him was going backwards not forwards.  It's like she's changed too much and him not enough.  She acted like he was sweet and comfortable for her, but home's this funny thing that you can't go back to when things have changed.  He was really never more than a crush she had anyway.

Greg, well he's not even real Greg so whatever's going on there I'm not feeling or buying it.  Plus he can be a different actor but that doesn't erase the baggage between them.  And I don't believe people change THAT much.  So I don't see it.  Plus I didn't even feel it.  Where would they even go together?  Suddenly he comes back and now everything's OK?  Not buying that.  The two of them used to bring out the worst in each other and connected when they were both at their worst.  I don't see them bringing out the best in each other now that they're both "better".  It's just blah.

Meanwhile I was puzzled at her "date" with Nathaniel.  The way she rushes in to hold him feels like real romance, not the puppy love stuff she has with the others.  I think he was the one she had the most promise with for the future and the future is where I'd want to be, not stuck in a rut with two guys going nowhere.  Nathaniel has more going for him and is definitely NOT boring, despite what other people here say.  Plus they connect in ways she can't with the other two.  I think she hooked up with him when she was actually getting better.  The other two confirmed aspects of herself that she has grown beyond even now.  Nathaniel has always been aspirational for her.  Now that he's actually over being a jerk, he's number 1 in my book.  But I don't really think he was all that bad in the first place.  The show made him look that way and now it has to make him look better so we see him as real contender, and they can mess with our minds about which one she picks.

One thing I didn't like in this episode was the way Dr. Akopian treated Rebecca.  OK, Rebecca was kind of "stalking" her but first of all she wasn't returning her calls, which she should have, and there were any number of nicer ways to handle the situation gracefully without encouraging the behavior.  I used to run into a therapist of mine all the time because we lived in the same neighborhood and while it was a little strange, he handled it most professionally.  Plus I didn't like the way Dr. A agreed to the stupid 3 date idea.  Seriously?  She should have said they would talk about that in a session later, not be quick to say it's a good idea and then act dismissive.  I know they didn't have the time to really talk about it, but It's really not her decision to make.  She should have told her she couldn't give her that kind of advice on the spot.  Plus how she could say that's a good idea tells me she really doesn't care that much about Rebecca and was just trying to get her off her back.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Yeah No

[Eeksquire]

Am I the only one that hoped that the taco delivery guy would be the man-bunned taco guy from Rebecca's first day with Greg? And she'd realize this whole thing was dumb?

Not to mention: I'm happy enough to watch the concert, but I really feel like it's a cheat for them to have said "X episodes left!" when really there's X-1: the actual episodes and the concert special.  And it REALLY highlights that they didn't have enough plot for the number of episodes they were given this season.

[DianeDobbler]

Yeah, I do think it's a cheat that Episode 18 is a concert, and they should have told us that from day one. I wonder if they had the option of doing 18 narrative episodes but barely had story for 17 so opted for the concert at 18.

[quangtran]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

And I don't believe people change THAT much.  So I don't see it.  Plus I didn't even feel it.  Where would they even go together?  Suddenly he comes back and now everything's OK?  Not buying that.

The Raging Waters episodes covered this. Greg and Bex has clearly changed a lot since when we first saw them in season 1, but still faced the same hurdles of his misanthropy and her not being able to deal with adult problems without spiralling. 

Quote

CXG is telling us, this is what love looks like. 

Not buying that for a second. It is a huge leap to conclude that Josh and Nathaniel have both lost their one true love just because they haven't had other love interests. 

Quote

When Rebecca got all dressed up for her date with Nathaniel I thought it was gross. The premise of this whole thing is really disgusting. How is this believable? I don't mean realistic - it's a comedy. But believable, with an internal logic to it?  So her first date is with Josh and its super intimate, they kiss, fall asleep in each other's arms. Then she resets and goes on another date with another guy where it's basically the same beats. Again, gross. Is this how intimacy works? It isn't. It's like the ability to generate it with three guys in three days just damages the credibility of ANY Of the relationships, not to mention Rebecca's own emotional credibility. 

I'll be disagreeing with a lot of what you wrote, because the show clearly is aware of the grossness of the whole Bachelor setup, and the dates were shown to be emotionally draining on her after the second one. But on a macro level there isn't anything gross about a single person having romantic date with other single people, especially compared to Bex's old pattern of running off her dates to sleep with other dudes.

Edited April 1, 2019 by quangtran

[RoadFullOfPromise]

On 3/30/2019 at 1:27 PM, DianeDobbler said:

WAY too Mary Sue for me, but I think Aline Brosh Mckenna has always had that blind spot with Rebecca.

The amount of time this show spends telling us how awesome! beautiful! smart! fun! Rebecca is has always taken me out of it completely. I just do not get it.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, RoadFullOfPromise said:

The amount of time this show spends telling us how awesome! beautiful! smart! fun! Rebecca is has always taken me out of it completely. I just do not get it.

You, WhiJo, and to some degree the rest of the audience, obviously.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, RoadFullOfPromise said:

The amount of time this show spends telling us how awesome! beautiful! smart! fun! Rebecca is has always taken me out of it completely. I just do not get it. 

I'm definitely okay with the show repeatedly telling us that Rebecca is beautiful. It's nice to have it verbalized that someone who is not a size 00 with bleached blonde hair and huge fake tits can still be considered beautiful.