Season 15 Discussion

[seacliffsal]

I'm watching the three in danger of going home singing their redemption songs.  So, could people vote all three of them off?  No?  Okay.  Love that Tyke is singing "I wanna go home..."  Problem is, he doesn't see the irony in that; Adam is even trying to justify voters keeping him for his "unique" song choices.

[Dots And Stripes]

Tyke sounded like he wanted to go home. That was such an odd song choice and he didn't sing it well. I wonder what Adam was really thinking after that one.

I'm happy Lynnea even if that wasn't a stellar performance. Kelly is right, she comes in at a major disadvantage, although I do think TPTB are trying to give her a shot. Both her run order last night and tonight make me think that. (Oh look, it is possible to go in an order other than the coaches chairs!) Kelly is very good at this show.

Sandy is the best vocalist of the three. Too bad she didn't put out her best performance tonight either. 

[TiredMe]

I thought of the three Lyanna deserved to stay but she needs to say no to whoever did her eye makeup. It was ridiculous and crooked. 

Tykes awful performance is the Adam group sing probably didn’t help him either. Yikes I was cringing. He does have pretty hair though.

[CatsAndMoreCats]

4 hours ago, Babalooie said:

Mr. Babalooie won't watch it past the chair turn auditions.  He's just there for the banter amongst the judges.

Me too.  Ever since this turned into just another scream fest...like all the other singing competitions.  Once the teams are chosen and complete...I'm out.

[JeanneH]

Really really liked Team Kelly's performance on its own merits, not as compared with Team Adam's mish-mash.

I have to wonder if they changed something in the sound mix between those performances and the saves because the sound seemed to be much worse later. I couldn't understand Sandy Redd, it was very muddy. I couldn't understand Tyke either, but I decided it was him mumbling or whatever he's doing ("interesting song selection" indeed!) Lynnea, OTOH, I didn't think the sound was as bad.

There's a couple people who got through I would quibble about, but it's personal preference. Of the bottom three, the right one was saved.

[driver18]

I know that Chevel is unpolished, and doesn't pick the best song choices (girl really needs to do some early Taylor Swift), but I completely get her popularity--and I'm not in that demographic (early 40's here). I watch her and by the mid-way point, she has me smiling. She's just so gosh-darn adorable, and pure old-style country. I just love her to bits. She has an absolute natural talent and a pure freshness to her that is utterly delightful.

I'm also pleased that Lynnea made it through another week because the difference between her performance last week and after one bout of coaching with Kelly on a song was miles apart. Of the three who were on the bottom, I'm definitely glad she's the one who made it through.

Edited November 23, 2018 by driver18

[Bridget]

Chevel, and the rest of the kids who are up past their bedtimes, needs to leave - and I say that as a huge Dixie Chicks fan.

Frankly, I’m not interested in watching Teens “sing.” As someone mentioned up thread, I enjoyed the original premise of the show: let the big boys & girls have one last chance at making it in the music industry. The younger ones usually have voices that are quite underdeveloped (which isn’t always a bad thing) and all sound the same to me: very “tin can” like and flat. The rest of the teens don’t have control over their voice nor do they have a solid understanding of music fundamentals. Their voice is their instrument and they need to learn how to use it. Just because someone likes singing, it doesn’t mean they know what they’re doing when they sing. Tyke is the perfect example of this. 

Chevel butchered her parts during Team Kelly’s performance tonight. She’s just as guilty about not enunciating as Tyke. She rushes the phrasing, or omits the words entirely. She left out words during her solo spots tonight and it drove me nuts. You don’t omit words or mumble with that song! I’m with Blake on this one: if I can’t understand you, I’m not listening. Too much work on my end!

Chevel really needs to work on her breathing while singing and practice her enunciation. I can almost see her running out of air when she is on stage, hence her horrible phrasing when singing.

I dig Kirk and like many of you, I can forgive his wonky version of the Lonestar song. I also really like MaKenzie. I just hope she continues to sing, not shout, every song as the season progresses. 

I’m no prude, but am I the only one who thought DeAndre was kind of over sharing when he was explaining in the video package that his girlfriend had a miscarriage? Clearly she gave him the green light to talk about it, but because I subconsciously think of it as a family show, I was surprised that production let him share that.

That said, I did laugh at Carson’s joke about Snoop Dogg and the smoke machine tonight! 

Dancing with the Stars finished their season this week (I need a handful of Xanax just thinking about that ending!), so I can now go back to watching this show on Mondays AND keeping up with everyone’s comments on this thread. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Bridget

[filmfan2480]

22 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I breezed through the show, FF is a wonderful thing. I think I watched Kennedy's entire performance but the rest was a hot mess.

Is it just me or does this show get old after the Knock-outs? 

After blinds, battles and knock-outs, I basically check-out.  Everything LIVE (Top 12 onward) grates on me.  I still DVR and sorta kiiiiinda watch and FF a lot until the whole thing is over.  I think The Voice needs to change things up moving forward because I'm finding A LOT of people saying the same exact thing.

[bluepiano]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 11:08 PM, Bridget said:

Chevel, and the rest of the kids who are up past their bedtimes, needs to leave - and I say that as a huge Dixie Chicks fan.

Frankly, I’m not interested in watching Teens “sing.” As someone mentioned up thread, I enjoyed the original premise of the show: let the big boys & girls have one last chance at making it in the music industry. The younger ones usually have voices that are quite underdeveloped (which isn’t always a bad thing) and all sound the same to me: very “tin can” like and flat. The rest of the teens don’t have control over their voice nor do they have a solid understanding of music fundamentals. Their voice is their instrument and they need to learn how to use it. Just because someone likes singing, it doesn’t mean they know what they’re doing when they sing. Tyke is the perfect example of this. 

Chevel butchered her parts during Team Kelly’s performance tonight. She’s just as guilty about not enunciating as Tyke. She rushes the phrasing, or omits the words entirely. She left out words during her solo spots tonight and it drove me nuts. You don’t omit words or mumble with that song! I’m with Blake on this one: if I can’t understand you, I’m not listening. Too much work on my end!

Chevel really needs to work on her breathing while singing and practice her enunciation. I can almost see her running out of air when she is on stage, hence her horrible phrasing when singing.

Great post, as you nailed what makes me crazy about what this show has become, and AI as well, which I stopped watched years ago. These shows push the idea that to be a singer all you need is desire and personality. Like you said, the voice is an instrument. Obviously everyone can "sing," as opposed to taking years to learn to play the violin or trumpet, but there is still a lot of technique involved in being a good (let alone great) singer. Some people are blessed with an interesting vocal tone, but that's just the beginning. As a long-time musician I've known and played with many singers who had some natural ability but didn't work on the craft of singing and remained extremely limited. By contrast, I've known some singers who even while working professionally continued to study and get vocal training and they went to a whole other level.

Being able to enunciate lyrics used to be considered the bare minimum for being a singer. But that's rapidly becoming a lost art, thanks in part to these singing competitions shows which heap praise and rewards on a bunch of mush mouth singers. They get told that they are a "true artist" because they created an original interpretation of a song. No they didn't. They butchered it.

You also hit on the other big issue, that now we have all these very young singers who are basically just doing karaoke because they have no musical background or experience to draw on. And very often don't even seem to understand the meaning of the lyrics they're singing.

But gosh darn they're adorable, and seem like really nice kids, and I guess that's why people are voting for them. At least the name "American Idol" implies that it's about qualities other than singing. But what a show called "The Voice" has become is really depressing.

Edited November 22, 2018 by bluepiano

[desertflower]

As I watched Tyke all I could think was how I wish the other long haired folkie teenager had made it through instead. (Forgot his name but he sang Jim Croce and had a nice smile.) He was way better. 

Sandy Red was just too much. 

Reagan sounded good on the group sing.

I thought it was hilarious Carson commented out loud about Tyke's song choice. It reminded me of when someone sang Creep as their last chance song. "What the hell am I doing here...I don't belong here...."  Lol! 

[Bridget]

14 minutes ago, bluepiano said:

Great post, as you nailed what makes me crazy about what this show has become, and AI as well, which I stopped watched years ago. These shows push the idea that to be a singer all you need is desire and personality. Like you said, the voice is an instrument. Obviously everyone can "sing," as opposed to taking years to learn to play the violin or trumpet, but there is still a lot of technique involved in being a good (let alone great) singer. Some people are blessed with an interesting vocal tone, but that's just the beginning. As a long-time musician I've known and played with many singers who had some natural ability but didn't work on the craft of singing and remained extremely limited. By contrast, I've known some singers who even while working professionally continued to study and get vocal training and they went to a whole other level.

Being able to enunciate lyrics used to be considered the bare minimum for being a singer. But that's rapidly becoming a lost art, thanks in part to these singing competitions shows which heap praise and rewards on a bunch of mush mouth singers. They get told that they are a "trust artist" because they created an original interpretation of a song. No they didn't. They butchered it.

You also hit on the other big issue, that now we have all these very young singers who are basically just doing karaoke because they have no musical background or experience to draw on. And very often don't even seem to understand the meaning of the lyrics they're singing.

But gosh darn they're adorable, and seem like really nice kids, and I guess that's why people are voting for them. At least the name "American Idol" implies that it's about qualities other than singing. But what a show called "The Voice" has become is really depressing.

I'm the daughter of a musician and have been around music, dance and singing since before I was born. My mom is a pianist (like yourself, I presume) and she 's been playing since she was 6 and hasn't ever stopped, even when she was pregnant.

I completely understand and agree with you about people who sing: there are two paths that can be taken. One either continues to learn as they work professionally (which is what everyone who works should be doing, no matter the field) or one hits the glass ceiling and isn't booked for singing at gigs and/or doesn't get asked to record with others.

I know someone who plays Scottish fiddle music (actually, I know many people who play Scottish fiddle music) and I was at a showcase that my friends were playing in. Next thing I knew, this person was "singing" an old Scots-Gaelic song. It was SO bad. So bad. It takes a special voice (not "special" like the way the judges throw the word around every 3 minutes) to not only sing these centuries old songs, but to enunciate in a foreign language while maintaining the timeless sound of what those songs are "supposed to sound like." This person was trying to sing while using runs! She is a decent fiddler (I personally think she plays too fast), but that doesn't mean they have any business singing in any language.

I have had to start using Closed Captions on my TV because everyone speaks ridiculously fast on any given show. My hearing is just fine (I'm a teacher, so I have excellent hearing; it comes along with the teaching credential!), but I can't believe that directors are OK with their actors mumbling their lines or speaking like they're the guy from the Micro Machines toy commercial. 

The karaoke thing is not my jam either. That's why I didn't care for Radha - she is way too much of a karaoke style singer in my opinion. She didn't seem to have much range either.  She even told the audience that karaoke is what got her into singing, which is a great hobby, but it takes so much more than that to succeed. You can't grow into a decent vocalist if you're not singing with other people, whether that's in a choir or in a chorus class at school. That's where you learn what other people sound like, how to take direction from a teacher/adult/coach and how to listen to others around you.

I think the younger "I've been singing since before I could talk" or "I've been singing my whole life" contestants are not only telling a lie (haha!), but come off as special snowflakes who still need to learn so much more about their instrument. I don't know what the big rush is to record an album as a teenager because we've seen adults audition who once had recording contracts in their hands, as teenagers, only to be let go by their label. Then what do they do?

I do admit I've seen some great singers on the show who have been younger, but they were also really solid in other areas too. I really liked Noah Mac, who is light years ahead of other singers his age, and I thought Britton Buchanan had a lot of potential. I was totally shocked that he didn't win last season.totally

Sarah Grace, when it's the right song, is someone I enjoy a lot. Kennedy's talent is undeniable, but she needs more authenticity/experience in her voice. She is good, but I can tell they are both teenagers when they sing. I have lots of guilty pleasure songs and albums in my music library, but when I listen to Niall Horan's debut solo album, for.example, I don't ever think about his age.

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm not wild about many this time, but, I do really like Kirk on Blake's team (like the other two on his team as well), Mackenzie on Jennifer's team and Kimberlie on Kelly's team.  Not wild about anyone on Adams. So far, to me, Mackenzie has the best vocals.  Plus, she picks good songs and doesn't butcher them.  That's a plus for me. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Gel]

2 hours ago, bluepiano said:

Being able to enunciate lyrics used to be considered the bare minimum for being a singer.

This cannot be said enough.  

I would happily lose the runs and the “big” notes in exchange. If the basics are not there, adding more crap to it doesn’t make it better. 

[bluepiano]

Right, in addition to not enunciating lyrics, the other thing is that people don't sing the melody. It's all about the runs and glory notes. A few years ago, Harry Connick Jr. was a mentor on Idol. In rehearsals he was appalled by a young woman who was singing a Gershwin song and doing runs all over the place. He told her, Gershwin was a genius, every note in that song is there for a purpose, and you need to be able to sing the melody as written before you can begin embellishing. And even then, you have to be extremely careful to stay true to the song and the intentions of the composer. It was the best thing I've ever heard anyone say to a singer on one of these competition shows.

Unfortunately, a couple of years later when he became regular judge on Idol he became like everyone else, getting all excited about runs and shouting.  You watch the coaches on The Voice during the blinds, and it's only when someone throws in a run or glory note, even if it's wildly inappropriate, that they get excited and hit their buzzer.

I like to imagine Ella Fitzgerald or Frank Sinatra being in the blinds and wonder if they would get a chair turn. The coaches would probably say something like, "I didn't feel your emotion."

These shows treat singing like it's an Olympic competition where you win by hitting the highest note or holding a note the longest.

I've been studying and playing music since the '70s, and it was only since the rise of Idol and The Voice that I ever even heard anyone talk about "runs." That word never existed, and in musicology it still doesn't. When you hear the coaches say things like "I love your runs" or "your runs are amazing" they are basically saying, you have not sung the song. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by bluepiano

[SunnyBeBe]

For me, a basic requirement is that you be able to sing a well known song and not leave listeners completely clueless as to what the song is.  All those vocal gymnastics just to prove a point, even when it doesn't sound good is pointless to me.  When their voice and their arrangement ruins a perfectly good song....that's messed up.  I also blame the coaches for that too.  

[Mystery Author]

Quote

Being able to enunciate lyrics used to be considered the bare minimum for being a singer. But that's rapidly becoming a lost art, thanks in part to these singing competitions shows which heap praise and rewards on a bunch of mush mouth singers. They get told that they are a "trust artist" because they created an original interpretation of a song. No they didn't. They butchered it.

THIS! And the reason I mostly zone out after the blinds and battle rounds. The other problem is not one lick of (helpful) criticism from the... what are they?... judges?... listeners-with-comments? Everyone is "amazing" and sure to win the competition. I could start a drinking game on "You made that song your own." No. Just no!

[viajero]

I'm glad Tyke finally went home.  He should never have gotten this far in the first place.  But I would have liked to see SandyRedd stay on .  The problem is that she was just plain outperformed by Lynnea when it counted most.

17 hours ago, Bridget said:

Frankly, I’m not interested in watching Teens “sing.” As someone mentioned up thread, I enjoyed the original premise of the show: let the big boys & girls have one last chance at making it in the music industry. The younger ones usually have voices that are quite underdeveloped (which isn’t always a bad thing) and all sound the same to me: very “tin can” like and flat. The rest of the teens don’t have control over their voice nor do they have a solid understanding of music fundamentals. Their voice is their instrument and they need to learn how to use it. Just because someone likes singing, it doesn’t mean they know what they’re doing when they sing. Tyke is the perfect example of this.

I think that the original premise of the show did include contestants of all ages, including teens.  One of the most pleasant surprises of the first season was highschooler Casey Weston, who very deservedly made the semifinals and might have gotten further had she not been on the same team as eventual winner Javier Colon.

I also hesitate to make broad generalizations about the teens.  For instance, I would argue that both Kennedy and Sarah Grace do have better control over their voices and more of an understanding of music fundamentals than several of their elders in this competition.  Sarah Grace has actually shown a surprising degree of musicianship.  Unfortunately for her, she may suffer from not being quite as cutesy and likable as Chavel or Reagan.  But whatever their deficiencies, I do think all four of them are more talented than last year's winner.  Having said all that, I do agree that many of these teen girls should have waited a little longer before coming on the show. 

In any case, Monday's show only confirmed my opinion that there is huge gap between Kirk and everyone else this season.  It's like watching a pro among amateurs. 

[ChristmasJones]

On 11/20/2018 at 7:08 PM, JeanneH said:

I have to wonder if they changed something in the sound mix between those performances and the saves because the sound seemed to be much worse later. I couldn't understand Sandy Redd, it was very muddy. I couldn't understand Tyke either, but I decided it was him mumbling or whatever he's doing ("interesting song selection" indeed!) Lynnea, OTOH, I didn't think the sound was as bad.

I was wondering this too. I could barely hear any of the singing during the saves.  My flatscreen TV has the speakers on the bottom, mounted on the back, so its not the best sound. But on some of the performances on this show, and other singing shows, I feel like the vocals are not set properly for the TV audience.  I went to listen back to some on the website and the vocals seemed much clearer than when I heard the same song on TV.

My favorite this week was Kirk Jay... and part of it was he was someone whose voice was very clear and distinct from the background music.

Edited November 22, 2018 by ChristmasJones

[Sentient Meat]

Lynnea is gorgeous... like movie star pretty but I don't think she can sing.  She could probably be a pop star with the right producer and autotune... but she should become an actress instead if she has any aptitude for it.

Sandy Redd was unpleasant to watch and although she had some nice professional chops, I wouldn't want to see her show.

I would have saved Tyke myself.

[CatsAndMoreCats]

On 11/21/2018 at 4:57 PM, bluepiano said:

Right, in addition to not enunciating lyrics, the other thing is that people don't sing the melody. It's all about the runs and glory notes. A few years ago, Harry Connick Jr. was a mentor on Idol. In rehearsals he was appalled by a young woman who was singing a Gershwin song and doing runs all over the place. He told her, Gershwin was a genius, every note in that song is there for a purpose, and you need to be able to sing the melody as written before you can begin embellishing. And even then, you have to be extremely careful to stay true to the song and the intentions of the composer. It was the best thing I've ever heard anyone say to a singer on one of these competition shows.

Unfortunately, a couple of years later when he became regular judge on Idol he became like everyone else, getting all excited about runs and shouting.  You watch the coaches on The Voice during the blinds, and it's only when someone throws in a run or glory note, even if it's wildly inappropriate, that they get excited and hit their buzzer.

I like to imagine Ella Fitzgerald or Frank Sinatra being in the blinds and wonder if they would get a chair turn. The coaches would probably say something like, "I didn't feel your emotion."

These shows treat singing like it's an Olympic competition where you win by hitting the highest note or holding a note the longest.

I've been studying and playing music since the '70s, and it was only since the rise of Idol and The Voice that I ever even heard anyone talk about "runs." That word never existed, and in musicology it still doesn't. When you hear the coaches say things like "I love your runs" or "your runs are amazing" they are basically saying, you have not sung the song. 

Co-signing every. Single. WORD.  Thank you.  And now I must marry you and have your child.

[limecoke]

Thank you, thank you, thank you to all the musicians posting about the ridiculous nature of these “singing” competitions.  Coukdnt agree more with all of you.

Please, people, enunciate!  If I don’t understand the words, you are just noise.  Runs, runs, runs!  Could you, for once, just sing a note well?  I don’t need to hear 4000 notes instead of the note written by the composer.  Then there’s the screeching!  The audience and the judges reward loudness by yelling, standing up, throwing shoes (?) and calling the loud singer “anointed” or something.  SandyRedd is a fine example.  She is a talented singer without doubt but she shot herself in the foot with the vocal histrionics and body contortions.  I get that it’s her style but it seems America didn’t dig it.   

Dear Tyke, rule number one when planning a bottom three song.  Never pick a song about going home.  And if you do, at least sing it well.  But you do have great hair so go with that.

[atlantaloves]

So thankful that stupid Tyke is gone...that was the only good thing about the show, finally kicking his totally out of key ass off. But I agree, when you take singing lessons, you learn to pronounced every single vowel folks...it's part of the deal. It's part of your warm up for God's sake. Sing clearly!  Oh don't get me started. Oy Vey.  I would give anything if they had a real crooner or jazz singer on JUST ONCE. When they do, they are dumped immediately...they don't do runs unless they scat. 

[CatsAndMoreCats]

40 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

So thankful that stupid Tyke is gone...that was the only good thing about the show, finally kicking his totally out of key ass off. But I agree, when you take singing lessons, you learn to pronounced every single vowel folks...it's part of the deal. It's part of your warm up for God's sake. Sing clearly!  Oh don't get me started. Oy Vey.  I would give anything if they had a real crooner or jazz singer on JUST ONCE. When they do, they are dumped immediately...they don't do runs unless they scat. 

What you put in bold face? Ditto times infinity.  Although between you and me, I'm told that professional singers prefer not to called crooners.  I suspect it smacks too much of a sleazy lounge singer at some motel off Exit 45 on the interstate.  #ReneMarie #SheilaJordan #BeckyKilgore #KurtElling #BettyCarter and #RebeccaParris (R.I.P. to the last two ladies)

[bluepiano]

9 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

 I would give anything if they had a real crooner or jazz singer on JUST ONCE. When they do, they are dumped immediately...they don't do runs unless they scat. 

I feel like in early seasons of this show they did have a few contestants who were, if not actual jazz singers, people who were capable of interesting phrasing, or singing a little ahead or behind the beat, things that jazz singers do when they interpret a song. I mean, real interpretation, as opposed to throwing in meaningless runs and glory notes.

I know there are lots of talented singers out there who have that kind of skill? Have they just stopped trying to get on this show, because they know that to compete they'd need to become shouters and are not willing to do that? Maybe also they just don't want to have to compete against the country singers and 15 year old girls. (I have nothing against country music, but the ones we're getting seem to be increasingly bland. One of favorite Voice contestants was Adam Wakefield, who could step outside the country box and do a killer Ray Charles r&b tune.)

[Wandering Snark]

I agree with these comments totally. What really makes me cringe is how just about every time they are in practice they will say that while people are working on their songs "Oh and don't forget to find a place that you can show off what you can to do". Drives me crazy. This is why we get what we get, you have to make sure you hit those notes so the coach will turn for you/talk you up. They're like the rats that have been taught to pump the little bar that gets them the treats... we all then hear in response "Great job really but then I was like 'WHOA WHAT WAS >THAT< NOTE?!?' That was... crazy!" 

I also hated that they had the 'package' at the beginning of the live show that pointed out the exact "box"/lane they'd bestowed on each singer to sell them to us. "I'm the young girl with the old soul voice" etc. It made me annoyed going in and I didn't make it through much of the show. I still didn't, I just came here instead...

[viajero]

They've had plenty of crooners on this show in the past, but they tended to be very derivative and/or not the greatest vocalists.  It doesn't help that they also come off as boring and dated in comparison to other contestants.  Frankly, I don't miss them at all.  Jazz singers are a different story.  The few they've had tended to at least be interesting.  For example, I remember really enjoying Amy Vachal in her season.

I guess its to be expected that a vocal competition lends itself to a lot of vocal acrobatics, which can sometimes detract from the song.  An example would be the three way knockout this season between Kymberli, Zaxai, and Natasia.  The first two way overdid the runs, to the point where "The Middle" lost a lot of its flow, while I couldn't even tell you what the melody is for Cruisin'.  Meanwhile, Natasia did a much more straight forward rendition of Tennessee Whiskey, while still showing at least as much range as the other two.  But of course Kelly picked Kymberli and Zaxai.

I also have a problem with performers who don't enunciate, but this doesn't mean that I necessarily want them to just sing the notes exactly as intended by the original composer.  I really appreciate both imaginative rearrangements of songs, as well as at least some vocal dynamics.  A good example from this season would be Abby Cates version of Because of You.  Of course, perhaps it helped that the original composer (Kelly) was the one who rearranged the song so as to highlight Abby's beautiful head voice.

I was re-watching some of Monday's performances on YouTube, as I had been distracted during part of the episode.  To my surprise, I think that Lynnea's Wolves was one of the better performances on what was otherwise a rather mediocre evening.  She showed plenty of dynamics, with a very nice head voice.  Even when she went for that long sustained high note that is not in the original (probably because Selena Gomez would have trouble hitting it live), they managed to fit it in well.  It wasn't perfect, but strictly on the merits of the Top-13 performances, she should not have been in the bottom 3.

[Bridget]

2 hours ago, viajero said:

They've had plenty of crooners on this show in the past, but they tended to be very derivative and/or not the greatest vocalists.  It doesn't help that they also come off as boring and dated in comparison to other contestants.  Frankly, I don't miss them at all.  Jazz singers are a different story.  The few they've had tended to at least be interesting.  For example, I remember really enjoying Amy Vachal in her season.

I guess its to be expected that a vocal competition lends itself to a lot of vocal acrobatics, which can sometimes detract from the song.  An example would be the three way knockout this season between Kymberli, Zaxai, and Natasia.  The first two way overdid the runs, to the point where "The Middle" lost a lot of its flow, while I couldn't even tell you what the melody is for Cruisin'.  Meanwhile, Natasia did a much more straight forward rendition of Tennessee Whiskey, while still showing at least as much range as the other two.  But of course Kelly picked Kymberli and Zaxai.

I also have a problem with performers who don't enunciate, but this doesn't mean that I necessarily want them to just sing the notes exactly as intended by the original composer.  I really appreciate both imaginative rearrangements of songs, as well as at least some vocal dynamics.  A good example from this season would be Abby Cates version of Because of You.  Of course, perhaps it helped that the original composer (Kelly) was the one who rearranged the song so as to highlight Abby's beautiful head voice.

 

Yes! 

A trend that I’ve noticed (and drives me up the wall) is that many contestants want to be “creative”, but don’t seem to know anything when it comes to rearranging a song or knowing when to not play around with the melody. When no one steps in and coaches them correctly, that’s when we get these ridiculous performances with folks shouting and screaming on stage. Sadly, sometimes they’re coached into doing everything but singing the song and enunciating all of the words in the lyric, but I digress.

I like watching Kelly coach her singers because she is giving them such valuable information. I often think that sometimes no one ever told Singer A or Singer B these things before. I don’t have any specific examples of her spot on coaching, but I’ve noticed she’s great about telling artists simply how to start singing their song. She reminds them to breathe, take their time and let any “big moments” simmer for a bit; there isn’t a fire anywhere. No need to hope someone throws a shoe at you during the first 20 seconds!

I don’t think that every single singer on the planet must be either a musician or songwriter, but it helps. So much! I am not knocking anyone’s vocal talent, but the singers who have an understanding of music in general tend to be better performers. They know what songs to choose, how to sing them and what nuances, if any, can be added to their rendition. 

They also know that nuances aren’t the same as vocal acrobatics, which I think some singers use to camouflage what they might perceive to be any possible flaws. 

Personally, the artists that I tend to gravitate towards and end up seeing in concert are almost always able to play an instrument or compose song lyrics. 

[SnarkyTart]

On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 11:09 AM, bluepiano said:

Great post, as you nailed what makes me crazy about what this show has become, and AI as well, which I stopped watched years ago. These shows push the idea that to be a singer all you need is desire and personality. Like you said, the voice is an instrument. Obviously everyone can "sing," as opposed to taking years to learn to play the violin or trumpet, but there is still a lot of technique involved in being a good (let alone great) singer. Some people are blessed with an interesting vocal tone, but that's just the beginning. As a long-time musician I've known and played with many singers who had some natural ability but didn't work on the craft of singing and remained extremely limited. By contrast, I've known some singers who even while working professionally continued to study and get vocal training and they went to a whole other level.

Being able to enunciate lyrics used to be considered the bare minimum for being a singer. But that's rapidly becoming a lost art, thanks in part to these singing competitions shows which heap praise and rewards on a bunch of mush mouth singers. They get told that they are a "true artist" because they created an original interpretation of a song. No they didn't. They butchered it.

You also hit on the other big issue, that now we have all these very young singers who are basically just doing karaoke because they have no musical background or experience to draw on. And very often don't even seem to understand the meaning of the lyrics they're singing.

But gosh darn they're adorable, and seem like really nice kids, and I guess that's why people are voting for them. At least the name "American Idol" implies that it's about qualities other than singing. But what a show called "The Voice" has become is really depressing.

All this conversation you began in the last two pages has been so interesting and on-the-nose about everything that's wrong with "The Voice".  It's what made me start watching singing competition shows from other countries on youtube instead. Do you think American television audiences could appreciate a format like China's "I am a Singer"?  To elucidate, their youngest contestant was 22 years old.  The contestant's songs can extend to up to 5 minutes per performance.  The contestants arrange their own songs and can choose whatever live instrumentation and background vocals they wish, up to and including a full symphonic orchestra. The contestants choose their own outfits and their own stage set.  There are no background sob story packages.  There is NO call-in voting.  Each week is a different in-studio audience of 500 viewers for the live performance and they are the only ones who vote.  The camera editing is wonderful, with very few cuts to see audience members or the other contestants reacting backstage.  And there are no judges or coaches!  Imagine the huge budget "The Voice" or "American Idol" could spend on the contestants' performances without those superstar celebrity judges. Not to mention the true vocal talent that could be drawn to such a competition.  If an American signing competition could end up with a contestant/performance like this one from the Chinese show...I wonder if American audiences would appreciate and support it?

[Dots And Stripes]

Makenzie has become my favorite vocalist this season. Her tone is beautiful. I also really like Kennedy, but I didn't like the second half of her song tonight. Two weeks in a row she felt very cliche. I hope she picks something less obvious next week. I like Sarah Grace too, but that song felt too on the nose, almost like an impression of Florence.

Raegan does not know teen angst. At all. 

[Quickbeam]

I turned it off after the first hour. I was kind of bored and really...Long Train Running? Wasn’t impressed with anyone I saw in hour 1. 

[adhoc]

Didn't watch tonight, but wow, I'm totally obsessed with Dimash Kudaibergen now, SnarkyTart. That's "The Voice!"

[Diana Berry]

I fell asleep after Mackenzie but I do have to give a shout out to "Joy " sorry can't remember her full name.  Finally, a gospel singer that wants to make gospel music.  Over the years, I've seen so many singers on these  shows that were gospel but we're trying to fit themselves into pop/ mainstream.  Finally, a singer going with her heart.  Best of luck to her.  

[PhD-Purgatory15]

Some interesting song choices to say the least.

I thought on the whole, the "fan" choices really helped Blake's team the most. It was really nice to see Dave (of all people!) really swing for the fences with something way out of the box or his lane. Chris got to do something that was a little different too, and while I know Sam Hunt is a polarizing figure inside country music...I think that song was much needed for Kirk to do something that wasn't a 90's or early 00's country ballad. He did a good, but not great job with it and now he can go back to his wheelhouse next week.

Yeah, Reagan needed to watch the Complicated music video a few more times. She had most of the vocals down, but only about 15% of Avril's energy/teen girl swag that made that song a breakout hit. It was definitely a missed opportunity. Chevel drew a difficult song as well, I think. And clearly slower songs make it more obvious when she is off-key and off with her breathing technique or lack thereof. I think Butterflies or Follow Your Arrow would've been better Kacey Musgraves songs for her. Sarah had it rough too with F+TM. It's hard for anybody this side of Pentatonix to recreate the vocal energy/electricity she has in her voice on that song.

I'd be worried for Lynnea this week. I think she definitely took a couple steps back...and mostly I just can't think of any other obvious choices to go home. If she's one of the bottom two, I'll be very interested to see who the other person is. Maybe MaKenzie? I don't have much confidence in that pick, that's for sure.

[TwistedandBored]

I really like both girls from Jennifer's team. I also like most of Blake's team. I am just wishy washy on both Kelly and Adam's teams. 

[windtrix]

Regan, don’t have a fake, cutesy smile plastered on your face for a song like Complicated. That was like watching a high school talent show.

Kelly, for the love of God, please get a stylist. Richard Blackwell is going to come back from the dead so he can put you on  his list. Where do you even find all that stuff that is so, so unflattering.  In no universe do black leather saloon girl boots go with a white, spangled gown. When you’re picking out shoes, choose the exact opposite of what you were planning on wearing. I love you girl, but you need to make some changes ASAP!

I love Kennedy. She has been my favorite since the auditions. I just wish she would sing more age appropriate, modern songs. I hope she goes all the way.

Edited November 27, 2018 by windtrix

[JeanneH]

5 hours ago, windtrix said:

I love Kennedy. She has been my favorite since the auditions. I just wish she would sing more age appropriate, modern songs. I hope she goes all the way.

Kennedy is arguably the best singer in the competition, but for me there's no emotion to it when she sings. She hits the notes, but it's so blah (Kennedy-bot?). I thought it was the same last week.  Perhaps it's just her having not much in the way of life experience to hang her performance of certain songs on, as others of this season's teeny-bopper brigade have similar problems. All IMO of course.

[adhoc]

I'm at work and Dimash is playing through my earphones. I love SOS, but I might like "The Love of Tired Swans" even more.  I'm blaming SnarkyTart for my new obsession.

Oh, about The Voice....I'm not surprised you say that about Kennedy. While I did not see her last night, I've been pretty disappointed with her song choices these past weeks. She's a 13-year-old and needs age-appropriate song choices, IMHO. Something that lets her be the young teen she is.

[kathyk24]

I thought Kennedy was the best and Regan was the worst. I thought Regan was flat through the whole song. I wonder if giving teens songs that are too mature for them is because those are the songs the band already knows and they don't need to learn anything new?

[SnarkyTart]

2 hours ago, adhoc said:

I'm at work and Dimash is playing through my earphones. I love SOS, but I might like "The Love of Tired Swans" even more.  I'm blaming SnarkyTart for my new obsession.

It's a very deep rabbit hole that I haven't found the bottom of yet.  His wikipedia page is a revelation in terms of background, classical/operatic training, and accomplishments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimash_Kudaibergen. If you haven't yet, check out his song "Sinful Passion", you're welcome.  https://youtu.be/9L6pnx2GiUA.

[adhoc]

>>If you haven't yet, check out his song "Sinful Passion", you're welcome.  https://youtu.be/9L6pnx2GiUA.

Please, Snarky, what do you think I was doing last night when I should have been in bed?  ;-)

Plus I was glomming "Vocal coach reactions to Dimash" (mostly featuring that SOS contest you posted, where  the other contestants were all thinking "I have to follow HIM?").

He's unworldly.  And although I realize contra-tenors, while rare, do exist in nature--even heard a feature story on one on NPR-- I could not help but wonder if chemical castration was ever involved in the development or maintenance of his abilities. Sure, I would think he'd have an extraordinary range, regardless. But still, yes, I wonder.

And this will be my last off-topic post here.

Edited November 27, 2018 by adhoc

[Palomar]

SO, someone used to give us a list of how the contestants were charting on iTunes.  Is there a reason we never see that discussion anymore?

[AwesomO4000]

On 11/21/2018 at 5:57 PM, bluepiano said:

These shows treat singing like it's an Olympic competition where you win by hitting the highest note or holding a note the longest.

I missed the beginning, so I missed the first couple of performances, but with the rest of the show, this is how I felt. I didn't really like any of the performances. It all seemed like screaming and extraneous vocal gymnastics to me. I told my hubby that maybe I just don't get today's music and what people like nowadays. I didn't even recognize more than half of the songs while some others I was saying "oh, that's what that song is" when they got to the chorus. (Which is not a good thing, in my opinion.)

The last contestant I really liked on this show was Jordan Smith. I found his voice gorgeous, and still find myself seeking out his songs and listening to them on YouTube. (I love his "Stand in the Light..." song - the live version more than the studio version where I think they still autotune some... which why?) Jordan belted out the occasional big note, but he didn't really do the run thing nor did he let the big notes take over the melody of the song.

Actually, I think I'll go find his "Somebody to Love" to listen to now, so I can forget most of last night.

On 11/22/2018 at 2:44 AM, Sentient Meat said:

I would have saved Tyke myself.

Yeah, he would have been something pretty to look at last night.

Edited November 27, 2018 by AwesomO4000

[Dots And Stripes]

2 hours ago, Palomar said:

SO, someone used to give us a list of how the contestants were charting on iTunes.  Is there a reason we never see that discussion anymore?

iTunes sales no longer count for votes.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Dots And Stripes

[viajero]

I thought this episode was kind of a mixed bag, though an overall improvement over last week.  Kennedy gave the standout performance of the season so far, while Kymberli, Kirk, and Chris were all very good.   It was nice to see Kirk do something upbeat (even if he can't dance), while both Kymberli and Chris showed they are real pros when they go back to their roots.

Sarah, Lynnea and DeAndre did acceptable jobs with tough songs.  What were the fans thinking giving Sarah a Florence song?  At least her valiant effort to do something with what she was given allowed us to see more of her natural musicianship. 

Once again I generally liked Lynnea's take on a current hit song (she should definitely stick to that lane).  She was a bit tentative with some of the low notes, but was otherwise more than solid.  Plus, unlike some of the other youngsters, she connects with what she's singing.  Which was of course the problem with Chevel and Reagan, who finally showed their age.  Both had some uncharacteristic bum notes as well (particularly Reagan). 

MacKenzie has a pretty voice, but that performance did absolutely nothing for me.  The arrangement did her no favors.  Add in the fact that she has zero charisma and I found it to be easily the most boring performance of the evening.  Meanwhile, Dave completely failed at a song that what a bit out of his wheelhouse.  That was a mess vocally and bland at the same time.  Plus, the guy's attempts to beatbox were pathetic.

Should be in the bottom 2:  Dave and MacKenzie

Will be in the bottom 2:  Lynnea and either Dave or Sarah

 

9 hours ago, JeanneH said:

Kennedy is arguably the best singer in the competition, but for me there's no emotion to it when she sings. She hits the notes, but it's so blah (Kennedy-bot?). I thought it was the same last week.  Perhaps it's just her having not much in the way of life experience to hang her performance of certain songs on, as others of this season's teeny-bopper brigade have similar problems. All IMO of course.

I had the same opinion of Kennedy ... up until this performance.  Finally for once I thought she got the emotion right, to go along with her superb vocals.  This trick here was to not make it cheesy and she managed to do that quite nicely.

[Palomar]

1 hour ago, Dots And Stripes said:

iTunes sales no longer count for votes.

Thanks for the explanation!

[Jal]

On 11/21/2018 at 5:57 PM, bluepiano said:

I've been studying and playing music since the '70s, and it was only since the rise of Idol and The Voice that I ever even heard anyone talk about "runs." That word never existed, and in musicology it still doesn't. When you hear the coaches say things like "I love your runs" or "your runs are amazing" they are basically saying, you have not sung the song. 

 

Variations of this exist in other cultures, like classical Indian music.

But I agree it's valued much higher than it should be in these competitions now. It shouldn't be used all over the place.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Jal

[Quickbeam]

Interesting. The right person went home. Vote very lopsided. Surprised Dave was ok, I thought he’d be bottom 2. Kelsey whatever her name is was dreadful. If Kelly has a stylist they should be shot. That hair was atrocious. 

[Babalooie]

7 minutes ago, Quickbeam said:

The right person went home.

Yes, it was a no-brainer since she was one of Kelsi Ballerini's choices out of the ones that got no turns to begin with.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Babalooie

[PhD-Purgatory15]

What I thought would be the most logical outcome (as it related to the elimination) actually happened.

PurgatoryMom seems to think Kirk Jay is siphoning off votes that might otherwise go to DeAndre....and I can't decide if I agree with that take or not. He definitely wasn't on my radar as the other person in the bottom two (I thought his Jodeci song last night was quite good). But it's never wise to assume any of Blake's team will hit the twitter save until about Top 9 week, Kelly's tweens and Adam's Reagan seem pretty bulletproof so far. That's why I thought maybe MaKenzie....but her popularity continues to surprise me a little bit.

KB is very hit or miss on her live performances methinks...

[Babalooie]

1 minute ago, PhD-Purgatory15 said:

I thought maybe MaKenzie....but her popularity continues to surprise me a little bit.

I guess some people are put off because she's a plus-sized girl, but I was impressed with how EFFORTLESS her runs and that high note were in that smooth jazz version of a song written by the BeeGees.  I'm a music teacher who is generally hard to impress and feel that the runs really sound forced in many instances with so many "go big or go home" singers.