Spoilers and Speculation

[Morrigan2575]

Michonne or someone new?

[GreyBunny]

Someone new.  Allegedly he'll meet her at the ASZ.

[JBody]

I just saw the markings the Termites left on the trees after one of them clocks Bob on the head at the end of ep2. Totally not the same as the markings Morgan saw. It was pointed out in a screencap comparison that that marking matches a tattoo on the head of crazy Termite tormentor in the boxcar Glenn let out. So that group of big bads is still at large, because the markings Morgan saw were fresh. I wonder if it's... can't do spoiler tags on my phone but the main antagonists from the GN they just got rid of...maybe this is better in the comic thread. Hmmm.

[ParadoxLost]

Someone new.  Allegedly he'll meet her at the ASZ.

 

Oh, for the love of....aggh.

[editorgrrl]

I can't do spoiler tags on my phone.

Type the word "spoiler" surrounded by brackets before your spoiler text, and "

" after (no quotes).

[JBody]

Thanks editorgrrl!

[kj4ever]

I'm wondering now....I tried to read the comics but found them incredibly ....boring?  stupid?  I don't know.  Anyway the one thing I remember flipping through the pages was the scars on Andrea's face.  Beth now will now undoubtedly have those scars once those wicked wounds heal.  Interesting.

[kikismom]

Oh no! I had also flashed on a possible Rick/Beth pairing in place of the Rick/Andrea farther in the comic. But it wasn't because of the scars... it was because of that terrifying visual on TTD

where it said "Raised by Herschel! Trained by Daryl! Meet the New Beth Greene!" and I had a weird premonition that filled me with dread.

Edited November 11, 2014 by wrestlesflamingos
removed spoiler tags

[LilySilver]

I'm not spoiler tagging this because I thought this was the spoiler thread, but the following is a synopsis of next week's eppy so don't read it if you don't want to be spoiled....? 

Please lmk if I'm just not understanding how this thread is supposed to function.

 

From wetpaint via The Spoiling Dead Fans FB page:

 

 

What happens in episode 5. "Self Help"?
Episode 5 follows Abraham (Michael Cudlitz), Eugene (Josh McDermitt), Rosita (Christian Serratos), Tara (Alanna Masterson), Glenn Rhee (Steven Yeun), and Maggie Greene (Lauren Cohan) in their church bus trip after leaving Father Gabriel’s House of Horrors at the end of Episode 3.
That footage was filmed before Carol (Melissa McBride) and Daryl’s (Norman Reedus) Not-So-Excellent Adventure, which is still expected to be Episode 6 showing what happened to them while they were out in the world, and why Noah (Tyler James Williams) from the Beth hospital storyline is the one who returned to the church with Daryl.
This attempt to reach D.C. should include a church bus crash (sorry 'bout your ride, Father G!), a trip to a fire station with Eugene hosing down walkers, a flashback to Abraham’s dark comic-book-heavy backstory, and most likely flashbacks to how the Washington, D.C. trio came together in Texas, before we met them in Georgia in Season 4. Heck, maybe we’ll even get to see some of the Abraham/Rosita romance, since they are said to be dating but we’ve yet to see how this odd couple became an item. All of those backstories are meant to be coming this season.......
Check out the rest of the article here:
http://www.wetpaint.com/walking-dead/articles/2014-10-31-season-5-what-happens-episode5

Edited November 3, 2014 by LilySilver

[indeed]

That sounds like an awful lot of attention given to new characters when we still haven't gotten much or anything on the original characters. I wish they would have gone back to the church crew after the Beth only episode. Two weeks in a row with focus on characters I couldn't care less about--yippee.

[Statman]

The Spoiling Dead Fans posted this today.  They are usually spot on with spoilers so RIP Beth.

 

 

Mid-season finale info:

We received some information a while back stating the MSF would have a death and would be bloody. Last night we saw Noah escape the hospital as reported. Recently, we stated that Noah would be used as a "bargaining chip" when the group goes to the hospital for Carol and Beth. Noah "volunteers" to return to the hospital with Rick’s group.

 

No one finds Beth as a walker. There is a "standoff" of sorts. Beth has the choice to leave and has a moment of gumption (or weakness, depending on how you look at it) that leads to her demise. Beth ends up believing that the choice she makes is a necessity in the end. But Beth doesn't envision things ending the way they do. Beth's death will be a harrowing moment not only for Beth, but for Daryl, Carol and the others as well.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Statman

[Pete Martell]

This sounds plausible, but it's also hard for me to believe they'd kill Beth off only a few episodes from now when we've barely seen her. I just don't get the feeling that they're done with the character. I guess they could say this is the culmination of her arc, her strength, but if she makes a wrong choice and it ends in a horrible death for her, wouldn't that undercut most of her strength?

 

I also keep thinking one of Maggie/Glenn will die this season so I tend to wonder if they'd really kill off both Greene sisters, or Maggie's sister and husband.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Pete Martell

[kikismom]

 I guess they could say this is the culmination of her arc, her strength, but if she makes a wrong choice and it ends in a horrible death for her, wouldn't that undercut most of her strength?

 

 

See: Greene, Herschel.

 

There is a great interview with AL and NR, and AL says it silly to wind a character down and then kill them when no one cares. He said it it more effective when that person is very involved and then gets cuts down. In real life, people don't just die when they have no more to do, or when they have nothing to offer. Part of the pain/rage over some individual's death is that it came just when things were working out for them, or they had so much potential to do more.

[nodorothyparker]

I've been watching that blow up since last night.  Who knew that there would be so many people on the Facebook page who 1. didn't know that the word "demise" also means dead? and 2. follow a page with "Spoiling" in the title who then get irrationally and profanity-spewing angry and try to report the page for, you know, reporting an actual spoiler?

 

It follows the formula the show has laid out so I don't know why people are so surprised.  If you've been mostly a secondary or background character who suddenly gets a lot of lines or shows too much hopefulness, you have to know you're on deck.  Otherwise the emotional stakes may not be there.  I mean, come on, Bob went just last week after suddenly doing everything but bursting into a Disney song about how the world could get better if they just all believe.

Edited November 4, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[JBody]

Yup. Me too. "Demise" is a real tricky word, I guess. They are blaming TSDF, and it just makes them look like a bunch of cry babies. Everyone knows, even my DH knows and he's not a huge fan nor is he spoiled in the slightest, that character development equals almost imminent death. People are still thinking Carol dies saving Beth for cripes sake. Or that Carol faked her injuries to trojan horse her way in. These are the same people who presumably saw the filming pics of Carol being run over by the station wagon. Oh denial ain't just a river in Egypt, as they used to say.

[JBody]

Pete Martell, I am pretty sure Glenn's death in the comics will be reserved for Glenn and that's a long way off. It's possible Daryl will get his death because it would pack a similar emotional wallop as in the comics. And I think Bethy is toast so Maggie is safe for now (not to mention not much character development for them right now so they're probably good for a season or two).

[shang yiet]

It's disappointing because I felt Beth still had a long way to go whereas I felt Carol was at the end of her arc. I was anticipating a Maggie/Beth reunion payoff. Now, it's just anticlimatic.

 

"Hey, Maggie, I"m sorry to tell you Beth died last week while you were on a roadtrip with Abraham.'

"Oh, I thought she died months ago, Ah well..."

[JBody]

Yeah I think we're supposed to assume Maggie assumes she's as good as dead since Daryl "lost" her (eyerolls). Beth is one of those characters whose untimely demise (that word again!) is supposed to propel major growth for others and/or plot development (like Lori).

[nodorothyparker]

I don't read the comics but people who do have been talking a lot about maybe this is where Maggie goes full dark as I'm told she does there.  She's been so flat and uninvolved with anything beyond Glenn Glenn Glenn for awhile now that virtually anything would be an improvement.  She's apparently already given Beth up as dead, so who knows if it will even mean anything to her or not?   Or if she'll even be there or still off on the bus trip of the damned?

[Pete Martell]

In the comics, Maggie

attempts suicide after losing her father and brother (and previously losing her sisters)

I know some fans think the show is building up to that with her, but I don't know. If Beth is dying then they've handled the Maggie situation terribly, because if she grieves fans will just say, "Now you care."

 

I know that when you're killed off you get a bigger role, as Hershel did, as Bob did, but...I don't know. Beth's story just feels incomplete to me. Hershel was the prison, and Bob was always a redshirt.

 

I'm not saying this as some angry Beth fan who will ragequit if she goes. I'm more worried about Sasha, even Tara. It's just...like I said, it feels incomplete.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Pete Martell

[JackONeill]

Well, IF it happens that Beth dies, then it won't be the first time that the writers have let down a character and the audience.  Sometimes you have to wonder if TPTB sit around thinking, "You know, we're coming up on the mid-season finale.  Who can we kill?"

 

Let's also face it, other than Bob (who I agree was a secondary character), no one's taken a machete to the head yet this season (I mean good-guy-wise.)  So, I guess to some people, we're overdue for a hero's death.  (I know there'll be a bunch of people who jump on me for using that term to refer to Beth.  But I like her character.  In a way, she's about the only one who hasn't at least partially turned into a monster.  Leaving Judith out of it for now.)

 

Personally, I think there are other ways to keep people interested in your show than leading people on as to who's going to be killed.  To me it's cheap theatrics.

Edited November 4, 2014 by JackONeill

[Pete Martell]

 

Personally, I think there are other ways to keep people interested in your show than leading people on as to who's going to be killed.  To me it's cheap theatrics.

 

I do feel the show has moved away from this somewhat in the last few seasons. They thumbed their noses at the idea that someone has to die in the season finale or else it's somehow not actually a finale. I know they're probably going to kill a lot of people this season to make up for it. I just hope they make the right choices and do the characters justice. 

 

I can see where Beth could go. I'm just surprised if it's so soon.

[mightysparrow]

I heard that Beth was going to die a while ago but didn't dare believe it.  This spoiler is such good news!  Now if she and Carol have some sort of murder/suicide pact going on, I'll be ecstatic!!!

[Nashville]

You want we should lend you a knife? 

You know, just to speed the process along? 

 

:D

[The Mighty Peanut]

Found this today -- it's just Eugene bullshitting about the cure. They may have aired it on Talking Dead but I fell asleep, so apologies if you've all seen this before. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0oSoNXI-U

ETA: why are we spoiler tagging in the spoiler thread? Are comics off limits here now? That sucks.

Edited November 5, 2014 by The Mighty Peanut

[kikismom]

Found this today -- it's just Eugene bullshitting about the cure. They may have aired it on Talking Dead but I fell asleep, so apologies if you've all seen this before. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0oSoNXI-U

ETA: why are we spoiler tagging in the spoiler thread? Are comics off limits here now? That sucks.

Don't know about anyone else, but ---as I've said to one or two or you folks--we're experiencing difficulties with people who are very sensitive about the definition of spoiler. So we insensitive clods are now paranoid.

[JBody]

Hrm. I always think of a spoiler thread as an "enter at your own risk" type scenario.

[JBody]

Ah mightysparrow, dear Beth is not long for this world, but Carol is not quite ready to join the choir invisible. Do you remember the hospital doors from the premier, "don't open, dead inside" (and all those funny memes with Rick's quizzical expression: "don't dead, open inside?!" haha). Well, that message reminds me of Carol now.

[Mu Shu]

Watching a cipher like Beth die would still be more boring that a full episode of Michonne picking her toes.   Hell, I'd sign on for that.    Michonne picking her toes, that is. 

[mightysparrow]

Ah mightysparrow, dear Beth is not long for this world, but Carol is not quite ready to join the choir invisible. Do you remember the hospital doors from the premier, "don't open, dead inside" (and all those funny memes with Rick's quizzical expression: "don't dead, open inside?!" haha). Well, that message reminds me of Carol now.

 

A girl can dream, can't she?

[Anela]

I've just watched some of the deleted scenes that were mentioned, here:

I'm sad that the Vatos won't be back, and that they were killed by the Governor, but I also think what I've watched would have made for a better opening for Season 2. I wonder if they thought it was too soon, given that they didn't introduce the Governor until Season 3.

 

I wasn't sure where to put this, so I moved it here...

[The Mighty Peanut]

Don't know about anyone else, but ---as I've said to one or two or you folks--we're experiencing difficulties with people who are very sensitive about the definition of spoiler. So we insensitive clods are now paranoid.

 

Ah, yes. I may have talked to one or two people as well. I'm going to go on not tagging in this thread. If someone has a problem they can have me put in time out.

Edited November 5, 2014 by The Mighty Peanut

[JackONeill]

I, too, am skipping the "spoiler tags" in this forum.  I mean, Hello, that's why each forum has a title, and from that title, if you bother to read it, you will glean what the forum that you're thinking of joining is all about.

Edited November 5, 2014 by JackONeill

[editorgrrl]

I posted this in Noah's thread, but it probably should've gone here instead.

 

Spoilers from The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct video game re: Noah.

[joelene]

Kinda weird Emily Kinney is upped to opening credits billing but is only in three episodes before she is killed off (if next is all about Glenn, Maggie, Tarazzz... and the one after about Carol and Daryl). I guess it's a contract thing. If she does die, that is.

I guess I'm in the minority but I liked this last episode and thought EK carried it alright. Her episode with Daryl last season was a bit of a snooze but I honestly think I care more about her than Maggie at this point. Maggie hasn't had anything to do besides angsting about Glenn. I wouldn't call myself a "fan" but at least Beth got paired with an interesting character and is now in an interesting situation. I won't be mad when (if) she dies, but certainly sadder than if Maggie, Tara or Sasha (just comparing with other female characters here) would bite it, weaker actress or not. Though I wish they'd give the other ladies something interesting to do. Idk, that whole crew who drove away are all a big giant shrug to me at this point but Beth's story and character I finally care about.

Speaking of Tara, do we know if her sister died or not? If that was her sister stabbing the governors head.

[editorgrrl]

Speaking of Tara, do we know if her sister died or not? If that was her sister stabbing the governors head.

 

Tara told Glenn that Lilly committed suicide by walker after killing the Governor.

[Ocean Chick]

Kinda weird Emily Kinney is upped to opening credits billing but is only in three episodes before she is killed off

 

I assume it was done so that TPTB could pay the actress for a whole season, even though she was only going to be in a limited number of episodes.  Kinda like a golden handshake for the years she put in to the show.  And EK ends up with money enough to tide her over until her next gig.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Ocean Chick

[Pete Martell]

Has anyone heard anything about Tara in the next episode? I saw the NZ promo and they had various anguished or scared facial expressions from Maggie, Glenn, Rosita, and Eugene, presumably after the bus crash. No Tara. They also had some distant shot of the group walking up a road. We couldn't see everyone, but I didn't see Tara there either. 

 

I hope they aren't killing her off. 

[JackONeill]

Hey, welcome aboard, Tara.

***12 hours later***

See ya, Tara.  Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

[Pete Martell]

I'm sad that the Vatos won't be back, and that they were killed by the Governor, but I also think what I've watched would have made for a better opening for Season 2. I wonder if they thought it was too soon, given that they didn't introduce the Governor until Season 3.

 

I wasn't sure where to put this, so I moved it here...

 

I don't think they were killed by The Governor. I think the idea was that some rival gang killed them.

 

It's been a while since I listened to the commentary on these scenes, but I think they said they took them out because they didn't think it matched the rest of the episode, and they weren't thrilled with the tone, especially how angry Daryl was toward Sophia. They also realized the scene where all the men huddled in a stairwell to talk over plans looked wrong, as the image was of all the men making decisions while all the women were offcamera with the children. 

 

I thought the whole gang story in Vatos was crapola, and reminded me of something from Hunter, but I'd rather believe they aren't actually dead, since we didn't see it on TV. It's such pointless fatalism.

[editorgrrl]

Has anyone heard anything about Tara in the next episode? I saw the NZ promo and they had various anguished or scared facial expressions from Maggie, Glenn, Rosita, and Eugene, presumably after the bus crash. No Tara. They also had some distant shot of the group walking up a road. We couldn't see everyone, but I didn't see Tara there either. 

 

I hope they aren't killing her off. 

 

All I've heard re: next episode is Abraham's backstory, flipping the bus, and Glenn asking Eugene about his hair. Tara seems to have taken Beth's place as the young woman who doesn't really do much.

[JackONeill]

Well, I'd like to see more of Tara.  She would seem to be a good one to allow us to see things through someone else's eyes than just our bunch, who've seen quite a lot.  Of course, that's why I like Beth.  It's a different perspective, yes, slightly naive, but not all GI commando like Rick, Michonne &, Daryl.

[Nashville]

Well, I'd like to see more of Tara.  She would seem to be a good one to allow us to see things through someone else's eyes than just our bunch, who've seen quite a lot.  Of course, that's why I like Beth.  It's a different perspective, yes, slightly naive, but not all GI commando like Rick, Michonne &, Daryl.

 

Agree, somewhat.  Originally I didn't care much for Tara.  When we were first introduced to her and she kept trying to act badass and telling the Guv she was a cop before SHTF, my initial reaction was, "Yeah, right, let me guess - you worked as a file clerk down at the police station, right?"  I was surprised as hell when it was later revealed she had, in fact, actually been attending the Police Academy pre-ZA.  She's grown on me over time, though, since she stopped trying to act like a badass and started acting like a human.

[bunnyblue]

I know that when you're killed off you get a bigger role, as Hershel did, as Bob did, but...I don't know. Beth's story just feels incomplete to me. Hershel was the prison, and Bob was always a redshirt.

 

I'm not saying this as some angry Beth fan who will ragequit if she goes. I'm more worried about Sasha, even Tara. It's just...like I said, it feels incomplete.

 

I'm not a Beth fan but also not a Beth hater. To me she's always been a background character. Not quite a redshirt but definitely not a main character. I do understand what you mean by saying her story feels incomplete but I feel that way about many of the characters that have been killed before. Andrea especially. And I hated her. She should have rejoined the prison group after seeing the error of her ways and continued to play out her graphic novel story arc but, alas, the show thought differently. Her death was pretty tragic. 

 

Most of the deaths have been tragic and have come at a time where there was still story left to tell (Lori, T-Dog, Merle, Bob, and of course, Andrea). To me, Beth's upcoming death will join the ranks of those that came before her. But that's the nature of TWD, there is no right time to die. Character's are supposed to meet brutal and unexpected deaths. I think the writers have given Beth an arc similar to her father's; they've given her a chance to shine in her own episode where she displays a quiet strength while making the best of an impossible situation. And that's what's going to make her death all the more tragic and heartbreaking for her fans. And then the show will rinse and repeat with other characters, leaving their fans with a sense of incompleteness. 

Edited November 6, 2014 by bunnyblue

[kikismom]

I wish I could just put this in the Media thread. But is it spoilery? Whatever, here it is.

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/11/07/the-walking-dead-our-first-look-at-a-smooth-faced-rick-grimes-2414533?lt_source=external,manual

[JBody]

Cool. Yeah I think it would be considered spoilery 'cos I don't think it's a pic officially released by AMC (or is it? not sure)

Anyhoo doing a sort of rewatch and there's the clock hands again at the beginning which TPTB said would be a feature in each ep. Zoom into 5 and 4, which references the current ep, and then it focuses on 8, which is supposed to be the ep # in which she dies.

[JackONeill]

 

Anyhoo doing a sort of rewatch and there's the clock hands again at the beginning which TPTB said would be a feature in each ep. Zoom into 5 and 4, which references the current ep, and then it focuses on 8, which is supposed to be the ep # in which she dies.

 

 

How Twilight Zone-ish.  The writers need to inject more of that sort of thing and back-off on the blood and gore.  Of course, there will always be blood and gore, and I have no problem with it, but I think you can also make your stories more sophisticated.  Little, and big, twists are always welcome.

[kikismom]

 deleted scenes that were mentioned, here:

 

Oh crap...watch this deleted scene again, with the Closed Captioning on!

[editorgrrl]

I've just watched some of the deleted scenes that were mentioned, here:

I'm sad that the Vatos won't be back, and that they were killed by the Governor.

Glenn's baseball cap! Dale's bug-eyed look of wonderment (and On Golden Pond hat). Lori's accent was the same as Beth's—the droppin' of the g's. Carl, Rick, and even Shane look so young.

Kikismom, I couldn't get the captions to work. What'd I miss?

[kikismom]

Kikismom, I couldn't get the captions to work. What'd I miss?

Wait till after "play" is hit.

 

Rick talks about the Vatos "We left on good terms, enough to cure polio!"

Glenn says " I'll take a sip!"

and so forth, like bad lip-reading!

the best part is when Dale checks on Andrea and she says "Bangin on my pants? I'm trying not to get eaten by Dave Campbell, I want to puke at my dad's...what's not to like? Thanks, Dental!"

Edited November 8, 2014 by kikismom