S01.E08: Milk

[spaceghostess]

On 8/27/2018 at 7:15 AM, BingeyKohan said:

One more thing (I’m really not trying to be the show’s apologist, I had problems with it too - like Camille I am leaning toward kindness I guess): I liked how the ‘Milk’ episode title seemed to be about the presumably poisoned milk Camille was served at dinner, but then it was an empty jug of milk that led her to the teeth in the dollhouse, after she spotted the bedspread Mae made in the trash, right after hearing the girls had their first fight (and already having seen an ugly side of Amma at the dinner at Curry’s). I thought those (ivory) dominoes fell into each other nicely.

Me, too--but I was momentarily taken out of the scene by the fact that Camille wasn't recycling.

[spaceghostess]

15 minutes ago, Buttless said:

Now I want to hear more about this, lol Flyng monkeys!

Heh, that's a term recovering victims of narcissists use; FMs really do live up to the name, though! 

On topic: I also had issues with the construction of the show. Still, I thought they captured the mood of Wind Gap perfectly.

[Mothra]

1 hour ago, Buttless said:

I know about Mary Bell. How can you conclude she was redeemed? And what did the prison employee do to redeem her?

Because of the heinous nature of her crimes, she was housed at first with adult prisoners---I think she was 11 or 12 years old at the time--and pretty much lost in the system.  At some point, a warden? at any rate a prison official with the authority to treat her differently took an interest in her and made the first effort anyone had in her entire life to help her, not simply punish her.  It's been a while since I read the book so  I can't recall the details, but I was struck forcefully by the fact that one person--just *one* person--who was kind and interested in helping could make such a difference.  Essentially, he treated her like a child, not like a murderer.  He uncovered terrible abuse in her past and arranged for treatment.  Mary Bell eventually left prison, changed her name, married and is living a normal life, thanks to this one man.  I truly do recommend this book--it's fascinating.

[aemom]

1 hour ago, spaceghostess said:

Me, too--but I was momentarily taken out of the scene by the fact that Camille wasn't recycling.

I was taken out of the scene by someone taking something out of a kitchen garbage can.

Once something is in the kitchen sink or garbage, it stays there.  The germs!

[kicksave]

13 hours ago, Slovenly Muse said:

Well, count me in the minority, because I loved it all the way through the ending! It seemed like the perfect encapsulation of what the show had been doing leading up to that point!

Camille and Alan had an important commonality: Listening to music as a form of escapism, to avoid acknowledging and dealing with the reality that was in front of them. Alan ignored Adora's slow murder of her children (although, knowing what we now know about Amma, his decision to stop her leaving the house seems a bit less blatantly evil - who knows what he was avoiding knowing). Camille ignored and denied what had happened to her sister, even though part of her surely knew. She wouldn't submit to her mother's "care" as a child, she must have known it was bad for her, and Marian did, and so Camille blames herself for her sister's death. (And Adora takes every opportunity to blame her for it.)

And the whole town of Wind Gap does the same thing. They hold a festival every year to lionize a young girl who was raped and tortured and still stayed true to her husband. They remember their dead girls the way they WANT to, rather than the way they are ("Purple was Natalie's favourite colour. Well, actually it was black, but that seemed too morbid."). They profess to care, but when tragedy strikes, they would rather gossip and ostracize the two people who are hurting the most, than actually look around and see things they don't want to see. They see Amma and her friends as harmless, because they believe young girls can only be harmless, victims, "good girls." No one wanted to think that gentle, fragile, delicate Adora could be capable of violence, so they looked for easier answers, no matter how cruel. To me, this was never a "mystery," but rather a psychological horror series. By the midpoint, I was half-sure we'd never find out who the killer is. It's almost beside the point. No progress was made on the case because no one WANTED to know the truth. They all just worked together to deny and bury it, and point fingers wherever it was easiest, and THAT'S where the real story lay.

Camille faced the truth. She conquered her death wish. She allowed herself to be poisoned by Adora as penance for letting her sister die, and to try and save Amma. She finally received her mother's love, and then she fought for her own life at the end and emerged transformed. I loved that Curry came to save her, because it shows that unlike anyone else in her family, Camille DOES have someone who knows what real love is, and is willing to show up when everyone else rejects her. I also loved the quick reveal that Amma is the killer. It's further commentary on what we don't want to notice. All the clues WERE there, we just didn't want to see them. The way troubling behaviour in boys is often shrugged off as "boys being boys," Flynn is showing off the way troubling behaviour in girls is similarly ignored as "just acting out" because it CAN'T be anything real. The reveal reminds us that, like the residents of Wind Gap, we're STILL looking for easy answers and not fully confronting our assumptions about what girls are capable of. And the instant we get that uncomfortable information ("Don't tell Mama"), it's BOOM right into Zeppelin, right into Camille's escape from reality, the easy denial that anything is wrong, punctuated by the kinds of distressing flashes of reality that are likely going through Camillle's and Alan's minds all the time as they are trying to escape their worries through their headphones. The series in a nutshell.

 

I saw Amma noticing Camille noticing it, and I believe this is Amma repeating old patterns. Mae wants to be a journalist like Camille, she writes on herself like Camille, and Amma sees this as Mae muscling in on Camille's affection, the way Natalie and Anne were muscling in on Adora's.

 

It's funny - I loved this! Because this episode made the explicit psychological/mystical link between the dollhouse and the real house, I now can't picture Adora and the rest of the family walking around on that big ivory floor without imagining it made of the teeth of Amma's victims. A family haunted by the remnants of its own crimes, hidden in plain sight.

As for the physics of the murders, I don't have a problem with that. They said Adora would have likely needed an accomplice to pull those teeth. Amma had at least two, and access to tools and equipment at the slaughterhouse to boot.

I loved this series from start to finish, and while I usually prefer the book version to the screen version of any given story, I just can't work up any desire to read the novel, because I really think over-explaining things would ruin it for me. I just want to bask in the strange and awful alchemy of the series. Man, that was good.

Well said...the book was very good but now that you've seen a screen version it wouldn't be the same experience. I wish Gillian Flynn would write new book...I've read all her books and I love them. I can't say enough about the cinematography and the superb acting by all the principle characters. Well done.

[100Proof]

1 hour ago, Buttless said:

Now I want to hear more about this, lol Flyng monkeys!

I suspect reference to the "Wizard Of Oz"

[nachomama]

Ok, now I'm even more pissed, Was Adora only punished for Marian and the poisonings? Or were they collectively saying "ok, here's our killer let's stop looking?" So Camille packed up lil Miss Murderer2.0 and moved to the big city. I remembering asking if they released John.

Camille's article says she finally forgives herself for failing to save her sister, hello! sister girl, now you gotta go upstairs and "forgive" yourself again for failing to save Mae???!! Oh, wait you're probably dead, no way Amma doesn't hulk out rather than lose her teeth-tiles. I want a great big meteor from the sky to smash into Wind Gap and kill them all. No one can be saved. Ptooey, I hate the town.

[spaceghostess]

22 hours ago, bijoux said:

She definitely got her antlers up when Mae commented on reading editorials and her aspirations to study journalism or politics. And the editor’s wife (does she have a name, she must) definitely took notice of Amma’s snide comments about Mae only saying that because of Camille, and being a kiss ass.

Yup, I noticed the side-eye there, too; I even rewound and watched her expression again. She was starting to get Amma's number.

[Slovenly Muse]

10 hours ago, Buttless said:

I was reading some reviews and they  sort of become the author's own story of what they want it to be, by filling in so many blank spaces or badly attached bridges. It becomes less about the makers of the show and the show itself, and more about them getting off on their own review. So in a real way, they also didnt see what was right in front of them (show theme irony), and are reviewing what they made it out to be.

I also find the notion of female or teenager violence not novel. It's pretty well-documented that the female of the species can be even more deadly than the male, as they say. And teenagers are frequently violent because they dont have such a strong gasp on mortality, or impulse control, sometimes. There's nothing new in any of this. What they did, was construct a device to purposely mislead you.  And then spring it on you, at the very end.  That's not the same thing as underestimating how violent girls and women can be. That's not coming to a natural conclusion, because youre being manipulated by the creators in a very artificial way.

In the end though? We got fed a drama, only to have it jump cut to a comedic horror story. And it flushed away feeling you might've had for Camille.  Kicking into that particular Led Zepplin song had nothing to do with Camille, if you read what the director Vallee had to say. It doesnt stand in to signal to us that Camille zones out to Led Zepplin. It was specifically chosen because the author liked the lyrics. That Amma wanted alll the "love." Which I think is a translation issue with him from French to English, or just something dumb he said to explain Amma, who is not about love, in any way.

Hmm. I guess the beautiful thing about art is that there's no one "right answer," and it can mean anything to anyone. I didn't read any of the book, or behind-the-scenes interviews or anything, and I wasn't on the forums very much, so my impression comes entirely from what was on the screen. And I thought everything was there that needed to be, as long as you were watching the story that was being told, and not trying to twist it into the story you expect. I saw this whole series as Camille's descent into the darkness of her past. All of her coping mechanisms (the cutting, the music, the drinking, etc) on display, and the deeper she goes, and the more she interacts with the people who helped create that darkness, the clearer WE see how she became the person she is. Finally she descends so low that she discovers the base level where her family and the deaths are connected. Her mistake is that she's Adora's child, and she stops digging, and just accepts the easy (well, easier) answer, and takes Amma home with her. She is wobbling between kindness and Adora's smothering, and is definitely leaning toward kindness, but the fact that she does make Amma's care about her own recovery (and doesn't see what's been right in front of her face the whole time) shows that she is wobbling indeed. I'm not sure what you mean that the ending flushes away our feelings for Camille. It seems like it only reinforces what we already knew (She's a damaged person trying to do her best despite the ways her family messed her up). Can you explain a bit more?

I'm also not sure what you mean by being "manipulated" by the creators into not seeing the girls as violent. The story was about Camille and the people of Wind Gap not seeing the girls as violent, but THEY had Bob Nash and John Keane to blame. We (and Camille) always had the strong impression that John/Bob were innocent, and I never thought I was supposed to suspect them. There weren't any red herrings thrown our way, everything was pretty much laid out for us, the show just didn't explicitly connect the dots until the end. What sort of manipulation do you mean?

As to the song, it can't just be about Amma, because it's used at least once before in the series just by (and about) Camille, and that song specifically is one of her escape mechanisms. "I need your love" applies equally to ALL the women in her family (and maybe Alan too). I think it is THEIR song, not just Amma's (and yes, everything Amma did was about needing love, because she'd never experienced real love, only Adora's murderous co-dependency, and would do anything to secure even that twisted version of love all to herself, including killing the friends who were intruding on Adora's affections.). I wouldn't say it's definitely a signal that Camille zones out to Led Zeppelin, I kind of saw it as more of an invitation to the viewer to adopt Camille's escape mechanism and pretend we never learned the truth, content ourselves with the easy answer. Whether or not that's what the director had in mind, I don't know. I can only say what it meant to me. But whatever he did, it worked on me!

[HollyG]

On 8/26/2018 at 7:01 PM, VagueDisclaimer said:

With all the meandering we did to classic rock, drinking and driving for 7 episodes, they literally rushed through two huge plot points in under an hour and ended on a tease of a reveal, sneaking in a random flash in the credits.

How deeply unsatisfying.

x1000 !

[Chaos Theory]

I think like a lot of things if you nitpick or compare it too much to the book you will find problems.  I don’t have any issues that Amma being the killer was obvious.  I’ve gotten tired of the OMG!!!!!!! Killers you never would expect.  This was fairly straightforward and her reasons for killing were reasonly straightforward.  Any time her mother turned her warped attention off her even for a moment it sent her into a jealous rage and because her family was essentially the town she had her own posse of mean girls at her disposal.     This was never really a murder mystery anyway.  It was a story about a dysfunctional family with deep dangerous and deadly mental illness inside of it.   

My only question that never really got a good explanation in the movie was who in the town knew about Adora.  Did the sheriff?  Oh well still a compelling story.

[Schmolioot]

8 minutes ago, Slovenly Muse said:

Hmm. I guess the beautiful thing about art is that there's no one "right answer," and it can mean anything to anyone. I didn't read any of the book, or behind-the-scenes interviews or anything, and I wasn't on the forums very much, so my impression comes entirely from what was on the screen. And I thought everything was there that needed to be, as long as you were watching the story that was being told, and not trying to twist it into the story you expect. I saw this whole series as Camille's descent into the darkness of her past. All of her coping mechanisms (the cutting, the music, the drinking, etc) on display, and the deeper she goes, and the more she interacts with the people who helped create that darkness, the clearer WE see how she became the person she is. Finally she descends so low that she discovers the base level where her family and the deaths are connected. Her mistake is that she's Adora's child, and she stops digging, and just accepts the easy (well, easier) answer, and takes Amma home with her. She is wobbling between kindness and Adora's smothering, and is definitely leaning toward kindness, but the fact that she does make Amma's care about her own recovery (and doesn't see what's been right in front of her face the whole time) shows that she is wobbling indeed. I'm not sure what you mean that the ending flushes away our feelings for Camille. It seems like it only reinforces what we already knew (She's a damaged person trying to do her best despite the ways her family messed her up). Can you explain a bit more?

I'm also not sure what you mean by being "manipulated" by the creators into not seeing the girls as violent. The story was about Camille and the people of Wind Gap not seeing the girls as violent, but THEY had Bob Nash and John Keane to blame. We (and Camille) always had the strong impression that John/Bob were innocent, and I never thought I was supposed to suspect them. There weren't any red herrings thrown our way, everything was pretty much laid out for us, the show just didn't explicitly connect the dots until the end. What sort of manipulation do you mean?

As to the song, it can't just be about Amma, because it's used at least once before in the series just by (and about) Camille, and that song specifically is one of her escape mechanisms. "I need your love" applies equally to ALL the women in her family (and maybe Alan too). I think it is THEIR song, not just Amma's (and yes, everything Amma did was about needing love, because she'd never experienced real love, only Adora's murderous co-dependency, and would do anything to secure even that twisted version of love all to herself, including killing the friends who were intruding on Adora's affections.). I wouldn't say it's definitely a signal that Camille zones out to Led Zeppelin, I kind of saw it as more of an invitation to the viewer to adopt Camille's escape mechanism and pretend we never learned the truth, content ourselves with the easy answer. Whether or not that's what the director had in mind, I don't know. I can only say what it meant to me. But whatever he did, it worked on me!

I think Camille knows that her relationship with Amma is codependent and that she’s not just taking care of her because of “kindness”.

She’s not Adora and wouldn’t hurt Amma, but she definitely “needs” her in a way that goes beyond simple sisterly love.

Camille is a very lonely person. Her boss and his wife seem like lovely people but when they are your only friends that’s not a great spot to be in. Amma gave her a purpose. A reason to clean up her life. She now has a sister and a best friend again and even a daughter on some level. It’s not surprising at all that someone in her position, that has gone through what she’s gone through, would go overboard and maybe willfully not see what’s right in front of her because she doesn’t want to.

She doesn’t seem to have put Amma in any kind of therapy, maybe because she doesn’t want to learn that Amma is mentally ill and beyond her help which might get her taken away. She also hasn’t stopped the sleeping in the same bed thing. When she tells Curry about it, she doesn’t seem upset or overly concerned. It’s just a fact of life. On some level she probably doesn’t want it to end and would rather let Amma stay a baby or little girl for as long as possible. 

I haven’t read the book, but if I had to guess, Camille would be just as likely to set that dollhouse on fire and burn the evidence as she would be to turn Amma in

[Schmolioot]

Apparently the finale hit a ratings high for the series so the hype worked at least. I guess there’s a question of whether most of those people liked it and would come back for more.

Also, Elizabeth Perkins said they’re all signed for season 2 so I imagine a dump truck full of money will pull up at Amy Adams’ house in the near future to see if they get a yes

[PepSinger]

I forgot to comment earlier that I loved the scene in the hospital with Richard and Camille. You could tell how overwhelmed, guilty, and ashamed he felt while also showing some compassion to Camille. The acting was lovely.

Edited August 30, 2018 by PepSinger

[Arcey]

On 08/26/2018 at 9:06 PM, SHD said:

I had to freeze and advance frame by frame to see what was happening in the credits bit. Kind of ridiculous, unless everyone else can just comprehend things faster than I can.

(From page 2) I also had to do that! Ridiculous indeed!

Not sure if this was already addressed, but how did Richard know to come to the house at that moment? And why did Camille ask Amma to go to Richard to let him know (at least I think that's what she did when her phone was gone), when Amma could barely move, and even if she could escape, how would she find him? I know Curry was with Richard, so maybe it was all Curry's doing, and the timing was just coincidental.

Mae had something written on her hand at that dinner, and I thought at first maybe she was a cutter too, but then it looked like it was written in pen. Maybe something like "call mom"? I thought it was maybe meant as a message to Camille, which seemed to work. And it looked to me like Mae made eye contact with Camille over it. Any thoughts on this?

[Cyranetta]

Quote

I assume they had practiced removing the pigs' teeth first. The farm had special tools.

I was wondering if Amma started out using baby pig's teeth for her "special" floor, but in seeking perfection decided that young girl's teeth would be a better "match". Did we ever get a reason why she went out to select a little pig in one of the earlier episodes?

[DangerousMinds]

5 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

Me, too--but I was momentarily taken out of the scene by the fact that Camille wasn't recycling.

So was I!

[spaceghostess]

7 hours ago, Mothra said:

ETA  Okay, I'm wrong about that, too--lay the flatter teeth flat.  Thanks to all who straightened me out about the teeth.  It was bracing.

 

Heeee--I saw what you did there!

[LeGrandElephant]

I’m only halfway through, but what am I watching? Did Camille deliberately allow herself to be poisoned and now I have to watch her hanging around being poisoned for an hour? This is so boring and stupid and a waste of time.

And now I’m at the end. How stupid and unsatisfactory. No explanation for the teeth? It was just to keep us from thinking it was obviously Adora? 

If she publishes that last article, I wouldn’t blame CPS for taking Amma away.

Swimming in a closed pool (at night?) isn’t exactly not-dangerous, especially knowing they might be drinking or doing drugs. Parents and guardians should be concerned. 

So are we supposed to think Amma did it and Adora took the fall for her? Fine, but there was still no explanation for the teeth, was there? 

Thst closeup on the black girl eating - are we supposed to worry Amma is poisoning her? 

I couldn’t parse that last after-credits scene at all, someone tell me what happened? And what happened in the book?

[JennyMominFL]

7 hours ago, Mothra said:

There's a wonderful book called "Cries Unheard" by Gitta Sereny, a true story about a little girl named Mary Bell, a child murderer, who was  redeemed by the care of one of her prison-keepers.  Until I read this book, I would not have thought a child like Amma could ever be treated successfully enough that she would be able to live a normal life.  For people interested in true crime, this is a must-read.

Gitta Sereny also Wrote Into That Darkness,  a book about her interview with Franz Stangl, commandant of the Nazi death Camps Treblinka and Sobibor, Harrowing stuff. She seems to have a deep desire to try to undertand evil.

[LeGrandElephant]

On 8/27/2018 at 10:04 AM, Xantar said:

Upon thinking about it, I actually kind of get it. Once Adora poisoned Camille, she started acting caring and nurturing. Camille has been shown to crave her mother’s love so much that even after Adora says she never loved Camille, Camille doesn’t do the sensible thing and just leave. Seeing her mother acting concerned for her health must have been extremely powerful for Camille, and you can see her regressing to a childlike state under Adora’s “care.”

Except how does that fit with her apparently rejecting that poisonous care as a kid and thus living?

On 8/27/2018 at 10:25 AM, annlaw78 said:

You mean the physics of the girl who we abruptly and suddenly learned was being poisoned and an invalid killing someone her own size, pulling teeth, and transporting the bodies?  Which is it, show?  I agree, the “physics” research is dumb. 

I misread it as “psychics” the first time and that made more sense. 

[carrps]

9 hours ago, Mothra said:

Do you know about ortolans?*

 

They ate so many of them, they're extinct! I first heard about them in Gigi, and I couldn't image eating it bones and all. Ick.

[Moxie Cat]

4 hours ago, Arcey said:

(From page 2) I also had to do that! Ridiculous indeed!

I paused those final scenes as much as I could, and I still couldn't really discern what was going on. Natalie lying next to the bed (the blood) and Ann in the creek, but I couldn't see the two friends too clearly.

And that is perfectly indicative of the problem with this series. It's OK to have a complex show where pausing or rewatching truly reveals Easter eggs that are fun or further deepen the story (ideally, in a way that is not essential for enjoying it as a whole). But Easter eggs that you must pause in order to understand a main point of the show (the murderer's identity, FFS!) are just bad storytelling and filmmaking.

What was the point of the shed? Why didn't Alan get custody? How did Richard know to send the cops to the house (something in the bar?)? If Amma was as debilitated by years of poison as Marian was, how did she manage to kill the girls and pull teeth - even with help? The show didn't address any of this. They barely showed who committed the central murders, or how/why Amma was able to commit them. If these issues were in the book, why weren't they in the show? I have a suspicion that this show would have been much better served with an external screenwriter, who could have approached the project with the view of "how can this best be communicated to non readers" rather than Flynn and co., who seemed to be preoccupied with "how can we make this an artsy award-winning movie with themes and plot points that elude most viewers (and eff them anyway!)"

Sorry for the rant, but a year ago I watched the Twin Peaks finale, which made no freaking sense to me, a fan for 25 years, and I have no patience for creators who expect us to guess at what they meant, and who don't really care if we understand or not because it was their "Vision."

[candle96]

2 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Swimming in a closed pool (at night?) isn’t exactly not-dangerous, especially knowing they might be drinking or doing drugs. Parents and guardians should be concerned. 

So are we supposed to think Amma did it and Adora took the fall for her? Fine, but there was still no explanation for the teeth, was there? 

Thst closeup on the black girl eating - are we supposed to worry Amma is poisoning her? 

I couldn’t parse that last after-credits scene at all, someone tell me what happened? And what happened in the book?

They didn't go swimming at the pool. They went there so that Amma could kill Mae, I guess because she assumed it would be empty. That's what was in the end credits, quick flashes of Amma murdering each girl, the first two with the help of her fellow roller skaters. Amma was jealous that Mae was getting attention from Camille, saying she wanted to be a journalist like her.

Amma used the girls' teeth make the floor of Adora's room in the dollhouse (similar to the elephant ivory in the real thing), which is what Camille discovers at the end, right before Amma says, "don't tell Mama." 

Edited August 29, 2018 by candle96

[peach]

36 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

What was the point of the shed? Why didn't Alan get custody? How did Richard know to send the cops to the house (something in the bar?)?

I didn't get the bar thing the first time, but I watched it again so my husband could see it, and I realized that when he went to the house the first time, Alan claimed she was out.  But her car was in the driveway.  And I think the fact that Camille wasn't AT the bar was suspicious.  I, too, would like to know the significance of the shed because it seemed to be important and some kind of reveal about it was coming, and then nothing.

22 hours ago, Slovenly Muse said:

 And the instant we get that uncomfortable information ("Don't tell Mama"), it's BOOM right into Zeppelin, right into Camille's escape from reality, the easy denial that anything is wrong, punctuated by the kinds of distressing flashes of reality that are likely going through Camillle's and Alan's minds all the time as they are trying to escape their worries through their headphones. The series in a nutshell.

 

Enjoyed your post, and I didn't make the connection to that specific song until I read this.  Love this analysis.  Now I see it as kind of genius. 

[bannana]

31 minutes ago, peach said:

I didn't get the bar thing the first time, but I watched it again so my husband could see it, and I realized that when he went to the house the first time, Alan claimed she was out.  But her car was in the driveway.  And I think the fact that Camille wasn't AT the bar was suspicious.  I, too, would like to know the significance of the shed because it seemed to be important and some kind of reveal about it was coming, and then nothing.

 

Enjoyed your post, and I didn't make the connection to that specific song until I read this.  Love this analysis.  Now I see it as kind of genius. 

I think when Alan said she was out with her friends, that must have made Richard suspicious.  Camille has no friends, and Richard knows this.  Because of how she dreaded going to the reunion of the cheerleading girls.

[peach]

36 minutes ago, bannana said:

I think when Alan said she was out with her friends, that must have made Richard suspicious.  Camille has no friends, and Richard knows this.  Because of how she dreaded going to the reunion of the cheerleading girls.

Yep.  And the only other place she would likely be was that bar.

[love2lovebadtv]

14 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Maybe not outright violence but she has shown a proclivity for childish rage and jealousy not to mention bullying behavior even against her own sister.  

This. I had a feeling Amma was the killer for the same reasons you mentioned. Plus, Adora had taken a liking to both of them. When she looked at the files in Camille's bag and tossed it aside like it was nothing, I became convinced it was her. The fearlessness of the roller girls, all of them acting as if nothing serious had taken place. I don't feel like her tendencies came out of nowhere. In fact, when I saw the poison, I completely disregarded Adora as a suspect. It had to be Amma. 

[love2lovebadtv]

13 hours ago, Mothra said:

Basing my opinion on 7th grade health class:

(I don't know why images always post twice for me)

Anyhoo, as you can see, the actual "ivory"--the enamel--makes up very little of the tooth's actual substance.  You'd need a hummingbird-dismembering saw, imo, to get that thin layer off--and to do it 64 times!  Beyond the patience of any 12-year-old I've ever known.

I wish I'd made a footnote of that illustration.  Damn.  Another missed opportunity.

Except this girl works on  a dollhouse, which requires a lot of detail and patience. So I can see her doing this. 

[peach]

22 hours ago, Buttless said:

Amma's a bottomless pit of need.  I dont think its that she thinks love cant run out; I think it's her greed of wanting all of the attention. 

Children can be sociopaths. Sociopathy runs in that family down the maternal line.  Amma's angry and joyous while killing  those girls. She goes full feral there. She tortures and mutilates them. She plays god over them (even dressing like one), strangling them, which would have been slow. She takes body parts as souvenirs.  That's not someone who's been poisoned and conditioned to be in a symbiotic relationship. That's a psychopath.

 

When I rewatched this episode with my hubby, I paid closer attention to the dialogue at the dinner table.  When she's talking about being Persephone, she says, "Hades rules over Hell, but Persephone decides on the punishment."  Another glimpse into her scary mentality of wielding power over her victims.

Also, in that scene, when they're talking about John Keene, she says she hopes he gets the needle.  Even taking pleasure in sending an innocent person to the death chamber for her crimes.  While writing this, I just realized they were ruminating on the method, which is poisoning.  ACK!  Funny, but Alan seemed to be quite knowledgeable about death penalty poisons himself.

There's been some discussion about whether Adora knew what Amma was doing.  At the table, they're actually celebrating John's arrest, and Adora says since they've finally arrested him, "now my little girl is safe."  Not from the killer, but from being caught!  So many layered meanings on this show!

 

16 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Except this girl works on  a dollhouse, which requires a lot of detail and patience. So I can see her doing this. 

She did say there was nothing to do in that town.  'Cept filing down murder teeth on long summer days.

Edited August 29, 2018 by peach

[Butless]

10 hours ago, nachomama said:

Camille's article says she finally forgives herself for failing to save her sister, hello! sister girl, now you gotta go upstairs and "forgive" yourself again for failing to save Mae???!! Oh, wait you're probably dead, no way Amma doesn't hulk out rather than lose her teeth-tiles. I want a great big meteor from the sky to smash into Wind Gap and kill them all. No one can be saved. Ptooey, I hate the town.

And if you DONT think Amma kills Camille after that jump to black, go back just a little and see when she tells Camille, "I could just EAT you," after she's asked Camille if loves her less for not wanting to be a writer. Amma is ANGRY at Camille. And she is not smizing. Those are some cold eyes. She puts the emphasis on EAT, because she really doesnt love Camille. She wants to consume Camille. The same reason she can shift from innocent to bad girl, and why she dresses up as characters at her old age...there is no there, there. She's a psychopath, and she needs to feed the emptiness inside of her.

6 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

So was I!

All I  could think about was the smell of that milk gong sour and how that would stink up an apartment.

[peach]

6 minutes ago, Buttless said:

And if you DONT think Amma kills Camille after that jump to black, go back just a little and see when she tells Camille, "I could just EAT you," after she's asked Camille if loves her less for not wanting to be a writer. Amma is ANGRY at Camille. And she is not smizing. Those are some cold eyes. She puts the emphasis on EAT, because she really doesnt love Camille. She wants to consume Camille. The same reason she can shift from innocent to bad girl, and why she dresses up as characters at her old age...there is no there, there. She's a psychopath, and she needs to feed the emptiness inside of her.

That actress is so incredibly off-putting in that scene, and the glimpse of Camille's fear as she senses Amma's malevolence was just so scary.  The whole exchange was palpable.

She also gives her that look back at Adora's dinner table, when she asks Camille if she would be more sad if John died, or if she (Amma) died.  and Camille says, "I don't want anybody to die."  Wrong. Answer.

Someone mentioned that sticking a lollipop in Camille's hair was the act of a petulant 5yo, but I thought the WAY she did it was extremely creepy and menacing and almost sexual, as was all her behavior when she was mocking Camille and Richard.  Contemptuous and gleeful.  And Camille was scared of her then, too.

[ShellsandCheese]

8 hours ago, Schmolioot said:

Apparently the finale hit a ratings high for the series so the hype worked at least. I guess there’s a question of whether most of those people liked it and would come back for more.

Also, Elizabeth Perkins said they’re all signed for season 2 so I imagine a dump truck full of money will pull up at Amy Adams’ house in the near future to see if they get a yes

I hope not. If HBO wanted a long running series they should have created something original and not a book adaptation. Plus I’m sick of their Limited Series turning into regular series. 

Also Richard didn’t bring that cops. Listen to the dialogue at hospital. It was Curry. I’d imagine Richard probably turned around and went back to the house when he saw them approaching. He flat out told Camille Vickery wouldn’t have listened to him but Curry wouldn’t take no for an answer or something. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by ShellsandCheese

[Anela]

8 hours ago, Schmolioot said:

.

Also, Elizabeth Perkins said they’re all signed for season 2

This is what I was afraid of. It doesn't need a season two. 

[peach]

7 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Also Richard didn’t bring that cops. Listen to the dialogue at hospital. It was Curry. I’d imagine Richard probably turned around and went back to the house when he saw them approaching. He flat out told Camille Vickery wouldn’t have listened to him but Curry wouldn’t take no for an answer or something. 

I think that was all kind of unclear.  Richard was last seen driving down the road, calling Camille's cell over and over.  Then they all came back together.  In the hospital, he made it sound like he was witness to Curry arriving and "busting down the door" with Vickery.  But he could have just been told that.  But they did burst in Adora's together, kind of a big coincidence Richard came back at the same moment.  I thought it was a little confusing.

2 minutes ago, Anela said:

This is what I was afraid of. It doesn't need a season two. 

I enjoyed Stranger Things but never went back for Season 2.  Can't imagine another season of this.

[Emily Thrace]

12 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

I'm not so sure about this. One of the things I thought both book and show got right was the portrayal of narcissism. Narcissists are expert at identifying those who will be sucked in by their charisma and subsequently provide narcissistic supply (i.e. continuous ego stroking and /or willing service) to the narc. Once secured, these followers (it's a very cult-like dynamic) will do all manner of seemingly uncharacteristic things, including: looking the other way as the narcissist commits heinous acts (Alan); lying to protect the narcissist (Alan) as they continue to be manipulated by the narcissist (Alan, Windgap residents, the Murderettes). The Murderettes were Amma's Flying Monkeys, i.e. the most aggressive variety of narcissist enablers. Because they've been manipulated to the point that they connect their sense of self worth to the success of the narc, Flying Monkeys and "regular" followers often exhibit very strong loyalty to the narc, to the point that they'll lie (and worse) to just about anyone to protect their leader.  (Ahem. Not going into how we've been seeing this dynamic play out in national headlines for the past two years.)

I always had Adora down as Narcissistic personality disorder myself rather than sociopathic. I suspect thats Amma to actually. Sociopaths don't usually care about being "Mama's good girl". Its part of why I think she can be saved. The fact that she cares what people think means she still has feelings. She also has Camille who loves her which is something most psychopaths don't have going for them.

Also in regards to sociopaths in general yes there is a genetic aspect to it and Amma certainly could have have gotten that from Adora but its not as inheritable as something like bipolar.  You don't become a sociopath without the environmental aspect and the genetic predisposition. My point was that a parent being a sociopath doesn't mean you will be one much like having an alcoholic parent doesn't means you will be one. Its also worth pointing out that there are sociopaths who are functional members of society. Its a mental illness and while it isn't curable it is treatable. 

[Butless]

23 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I always had Adora down as Narcissistic personality disorder myself rather than sociopathic. I suspect thats Amma to actually. Sociopaths don't usually care about being "Mama's good girl". Its part of why I think she can be saved. The fact that she cares what people think means she still has feelings. She also has Camille who loves her which is something most psychopaths don't have going for them.

Also in regards to sociopaths in general yes there is a genetic aspect to it and Amma certainly could have have gotten that from Adora but its not as inheritable as something like bipolar.  You don't become a sociopath without the environmental aspect and the genetic predisposition. My point was that a parent being a sociopath doesn't mean you will be one much like having an alcoholic parent doesn't means you will be one. Its also worth pointing out that there are sociopaths who are functional members of society. Its a mental illness and while it isn't curable it is treatable. 

Sociopaths can feel things. They can be angry or feel humiliated, etc    Sociopaths are frequently narcissists; all of these disorders tend to overlap. When people throw around sociopath and psychopath, theyre really buzzing in on some of the bigger attributes: seeing other people as a means to an end, no empathy to very low empathy for others, feeling entitled to play god (and a lot of them enjoying it) over others, including in life or death; having very little to no conscience.  Amma displays all of those things. She has a twisted relationship with her mother, but when push comes to shove, she's more than happy forAdora to take the fall for her crimes.  Sociopaths and narcissists care about being perceived as things , like mamma's good girl, or a benevolent mothere, etc. It's about manipulation, and them wearing 'suits' to manipulate others or make themselves feel more rooted into a personality. They are frequently called empty people. A book on sociopathy co-written by Dr Hare is called, Snakes in Suits, for example. Her messed up codependence on her mother is the way she grew up. Alll those other attributes to sociopathy she either adapted to probably from infancy onward (Since we see Adora can do things like bite and poison babies),  and are not reversible. If there is genetic predispositions to the cluster of problems that feed into the disorder, then there's that too.  All of that is hereditary. You dont need to have abusive , neglectful parents or live through a war to become a sociopath or psychopath, either. You can be born with brain abnormalties, have had a chemical or physical accident to  certain parts of your brain, etc.  Which are not reversible.

You cant teach someone with no conscience,  how to have a conscience. Sociopathy is not a mental illness. Its a diagnosis of a personality disorder that does not respond to treatment. When put into therapy for sociopathy, all that the patient learns is how to manipulate people better. If you can find me a source where it's been proven treatable, I'll do leprechaun kick, right now.  The Mary Bell story is anecdotal and could be completely bogus or misinterpreted. It seels books. Show me an indepth professional account that is accepted by the psychiatric community of anything ever helping, and I'll eat my  hat.

Edited to say: ask the poster who mentioned her ex and the flying monkeys what malignant  narcisssists are like, and if they have any selfawarness or conscience. Or the poster who's niece was the most frightening person she's ever met.  Amma's a fictional grab bag of a character from who I think is a hack.  I can understand that  the actresses portrayal and the authors trickery can make you sympathetic to the character, but it cant be confused with reality.

 

On 8/28/2018 at 12:33 PM, Slovenly Muse said:

Hmm. I guess the beautiful thing about art is that there's no one "right answer," and it can mean anything to anyone. I didn't read any of the book, or behind-the-scenes interviews or anything, and I wasn't on the forums very much, so my impression comes entirely from what was on the screen. And I thought everything was there that needed to be, as long as you were watching the story that was being told, and not trying to twist it into the story you expect. I saw this whole series as Camille's descent into the darkness of her past. All of her coping mechanisms (the cutting, the music, the drinking, etc) on display, and the deeper she goes, and the more she interacts with the people who helped create that darkness, the clearer WE see how she became the person she is. Finally she descends so low that she discovers the base level where her family and the deaths are connected. Her mistake is that she's Adora's child, and she stops digging, and just accepts the easy (well, easier) answer, and takes Amma home with her. She is wobbling between kindness and Adora's smothering, and is definitely leaning toward kindness, but the fact that she does make Amma's care about her own recovery (and doesn't see what's been right in front of her face the whole time) shows that she is wobbling indeed. I'm not sure what you mean that the ending flushes away our feelings for Camille. It seems like it only reinforces what we already knew (She's a damaged person trying to do her best despite the ways her family messed her up). Can you explain a bit more?

I'm also not sure what you mean by being "manipulated" by the creators into not seeing the girls as violent. The story was about Camille and the people of Wind Gap not seeing the girls as violent, but THEY had Bob Nash and John Keane to blame. We (and Camille) always had the strong impression that John/Bob were innocent, and I never thought I was supposed to suspect them. There weren't any red herrings thrown our way, everything was pretty much laid out for us, the show just didn't explicitly connect the dots until the end. What sort of manipulation do you mean?

As to the song, it can't just be about Amma, because it's used at least once before in the series just by (and about) Camille, and that song specifically is one of her escape mechanisms. "I need your love" applies equally to ALL the women in her family (and maybe Alan too). I think it is THEIR song, not just Amma's (and yes, everything Amma did was about needing love, because she'd never experienced real love, only Adora's murderous co-dependency, and would do anything to secure even that twisted version of love all to herself, including killing the friends who were intruding on Adora's affections.). I wouldn't say it's definitely a signal that Camille zones out to Led Zeppelin, I kind of saw it as more of an invitation to the viewer to adopt Camille's escape mechanism and pretend we never learned the truth, content ourselves with the easy answer. Whether or not that's what the director had in mind, I don't know. I can only say what it meant to me. But whatever he did, it worked on me!

The viewer puts in time an empathy, trying to understand the main character, Camille. We think we are watching a drama, but when the abrupt shift in tone happens at the very end, the makers have essentially betrayed their audience and turned whatever came before it into a farce.  At that moment, when you lose respect for the creators of the show because of the trick tthey pulled on you, you lose all the built up empathy from what had gone on in the weeks before it happened.  That is my take on it, and how I felt.

It's not that we havent been shown how nasty Adora or Amma are. But that there is also a lot of purposeful misdirection, a lot of framing the men as shady or questionable when there neednt have been, and there had been a lot of the makers saying , We changed up the endingl y'all!  When you take out the stupid misdirection they put in there, youd have more of a cohesive character study, and the story wouldnt be as ludicrous and holey as swiss cheese, Im guessing.

The show actually had more than one theme, and the biggest one that the makers admitted to believing/misleading with,  was how the audience, like the people of Wind Gap , would not believe that girls would be violent. Which is a bullshit premise and only happens because the makers pull their punches. There is absolutely no development that shows Amma's rollerskating sidekicks to be sociopathic, which they would have had to have been to do what they did and be conscienceless. If it were the dudes Amma was hanging out with that had been her accomplices in murder instead of the girls, it would have been  exactly the same.  They'd have been underestimated the same, because there were no real clues to  makes sense of their behavior.  Look at all the posters on here who are complaining about this very thing, and how things that should have been explained or evident, werent. You dont go from,  'that girls a bratty bitch,' to , 'that girls a murdering bratty bitch.' That's not a logical leap to make. 

Same with the red herrings. take a look back in this thread. People have mentioned them all over. The whole purpose of throwing Mr Lacy in the mix was a red herring.  Excluding John from finding his sister, in that scene.  And on and on. Bringing in the MBP  so late in the show. Etc.

The ending song absolutely can just be about Amma, even though the song has been used fron Camille's perspective before in the show. Where do you get that idea that it cant? The use of it shifted from Camille's perspective to Amma's at the end.  Camille is caught in shock at the magnitude of Amma's betrayal, and the last person we are looking to is Amma, now. And her last line.  Before it's cut to black and the song kicks in.  So you can interpret that scene and passage in more than one way.  The way I took it, it can be argued that the makers balled up and threw out Camille, frozen in shock/horror,  at that point, while they simultaneously elevated Amma to a funny/cute/scary anti-hero stance.

It could have made more sense for both the story and the director's comments if the song had the lyrics, I need all your attention. But hey, they were pleased as pigs in mud that they got some Led Zepplin songs because it was such a catch for them, that they had to make that work; I get it.

Nothing about Adora or Amma is about love. Nothing. They are controlling sadistic psychopathic personalities and they consume peoples attention, and what normal people would call love; like Camille, who is shown happy with even the lowest spark of what appears to be love.   A& A are a different breed.   They dont love. They consume people. Adora consumed Marian. Amma consumed those girls she killed.

Again, go back to the scene where Amma tells Camille she could just "EAT" her. Nothing about that delivery is about admiration or love for Camille. Go back to Ammaa's reaction shot after she asks  Camille if she would be sadder if Amma or John died, and Camille says she doesnt want either Amma or John to die. Go back to Amma standing on the landing of the second story looking across the hall and glowering, those are all prescient of the ending. Those scenes are not meant to be overlooked or  given a soft interpretation.

I  guess this show can be called art. It's manipulative enough. I did like a lot of it, visually and in the acting, in some of the plot usage. And YMMV on some of it, because of that.

 

On 8/28/2018 at 12:10 PM, nachomama said:

Ok, now I'm even more pissed, Was Adora only punished for Marian and the poisonings? Or were they collectively saying "ok, here's our killer let's stop looking?" So Camille packed up lil Miss Murderer2.0 and moved to the big city. I remembering asking if they released John.

Camille's article says she finally forgives herself for failing to save her sister, hello! sister girl, now you gotta go upstairs and "forgive" yourself again for failing to save Mae???!! Oh, wait you're probably dead, no way Amma doesn't hulk out rather than lose her teeth-tiles. I want a great big meteor from the sky to smash into Wind Gap and kill them all. No one can be saved. Ptooey, I hate the town.

I dont know about a meteor strike on Wind Gap. The old guy sitting outside the gas station seemed innocent enough.

B ut if it happens, make it on Calhoooun Day.

The po-po found the pliers covered in the victims blood at Adora's house, so John Im assuming was let go free, and pinned it on Adora. Camille's a dumb ass and a bad crime reporter for letting it go, at that, but yeah, how's she supposed to go on knowing she's at fault for Mae's murder? So the show, as opposed to the book, ended up being lethal to Camille.

 

 Has anyone mentioned yet that "aunt Jackie " gave up her wild caftans for sweater sets once Adora was sent to prison? So it really is a big popularity contest in that town, like Ashley said. And now that Adoras out of Wind Gap, Jackie's the queen bee,

Edited August 29, 2018 by Buttless

[IDreamofJoaquin]

11 hours ago, Schmolioot said:

Also, Elizabeth Perkins said they’re all signed for season 2 so I imagine a dump truck full of money will pull up at Amy Adams’ house in the near future to see if they get a yes

I'm interested in seeing what a Season 2 looks like just like a Season 2 of Big Little Lies.  It's like they planned these to be 1 season (and they usually conclude with the mystery they dangle in front of us) but they see the ratings and the awards they get and they get greedy.  That part bugs me. The part that doesn't bug me is we have compelling actresses in these roles and I love watching them. 

[Schmolioot]

7 hours ago, peach said:

That actress is so incredibly off-putting in that scene, and the glimpse of Camille's fear as she senses Amma's malevolence was just so scary.  The whole exchange was palpable.

She also gives her that look back at Adora's dinner table, when she asks Camille if she would be more sad if John died, or if she (Amma) died.  and Camille says, "I don't want anybody to die."  Wrong. Answer.

Someone mentioned that sticking a lollipop in Camille's hair was the act of a petulant 5yo, but I thought the WAY she did it was extremely creepy and menacing and almost sexual, as was all her behavior when she was mocking Camille and Richard.  Contemptuous and gleeful.  And Camille was scared of her then, too.

Amma was inappropriately sexual with Camille the whole time. There was nothing worse in that lollipop scene to me than what had come at the beginning of that episode when Amma was all over her in the bedroom.

I read it at the time, and still do really, is that Amma had a “crush” and kids who have crushes often act harsh or mean to the crush because they don’t know how to deal with it in other ways.

It isn’t even all that odd or completely inappropriate that a girl might have a crush on her sister, who she wasn’t raised with and doesn’t know and who has been described as his incredibly cool and wild person. It would almost be cute or sweet if Amma didn’t take it too far. Camille’s not blameless there. She allowed it to escalate every time to the point that Amma almost had her hand down her pants.

All of this is he sign of a girl without boundaries who needs psychological help. It did not signify a violent murderer who turns into the Hulk when she’s angry

[Chaos Theory]

Ive read that They weren’t doing s season 2 according to Marti Nixon.

[nachomama]

So if there's a Season 2, Sharper Things 2: Electric Boogaloo, who the hell do we care about? It's not about redemption for Amma so we get a new murderer? Camille moves back to Wind Gap to open a heating and air conditioning company? Have group therapy where the residents learn that Calhoun Day IS NOT A THING TO BE ADMIRED! Amy Adams and Frances McDormand unite to fight unsolved murder/rapists? They purchase 56 billboards outside of Wind Gap and this Pulitzer Prize winning article is printed and there's a traffic jam for 17 miles while people try to read it? The final billboard says "warning: words don't solve crimes, we pretty much let our rapists wander about freely"

[Schmolioot]

7 hours ago, Buttless said:

The viewer puts in time an empathy, trying to understand the main character, Camille. We think we are watching a drama, but when the abrupt shift in tone happens at the very end, the makers have essentially betrayed their audience and turned whatever came before it into a farce.  At that moment, when you lose respect for the creators of the show because of the trick tthey pulled on you, you lose all the built up empathy from what had gone on in the weeks before it happened.  That is my take on it, and how I felt.

It's not that we havent been shown how nasty Adora or Amma are. But that there is also a lot of purposeful misdirection, a lot of framing the men as shady or questionable when there neednt have been, and there had been a lot of the makers saying , We changed up the endingl y'all!  When you take out the stupid misdirection they put in there, youd have more of a cohesive character study, and the story wouldnt be as ludicrous and holey as swiss cheese, Im guessing.

The show actually had more than one theme, and the biggest one that the makers admitted to believing/misleading with,  was how the audience, like the people of Wind Gap , would not believe that girls would be violent. Which is a bullshit premise and only happens because the makers pull their punches. There is absolutely no development that shows Amma's rollerskating sidekicks to be sociopathic, which they would have had to have been to do what they did and be conscienceless. If it were the dudes Amma was hanging out with that had been her accomplices in murder instead of the girls, it would have been  exactly the same.  They'd have been underestimated the same, because there were no real clues to  makes sense of their behavior.  Look at all the posters on here who are complaining about this very thing, and how things that should have been explained or evident, werent. You dont go from,  'that girls a bratty bitch,' to , 'that girls a murdering bratty bitch.' That's not a logical leap to make. 

Same with the red herrings. take a look back in this thread. People have mentioned them all over. The whole purpose of throwing Mr Lacy in the mix was a red herring.  Excluding John from finding his sister, in that scene.  And on and on. Bringing in the MBP  so late in the show. Etc.

The ending song absolutely can just be about Amma, even though the song has been used fron Camille's perspective before in the show. Where do you get that idea that it cant? The use of it shifted from Camille's perspective to Amma's at the end.  Camille is caught in shock at the magnitude of Amma's betrayal, and the last person we are looking to is Amma, now. And her last line.  Before it's cut to black and the song kicks in.  So you can interpret that scene and passage in more than one way.  The way I took it, it can be argued that the makers balled up and threw out Camille, frozen in shock/horror,  at that point, while they simultaneously elevated Amma to a funny/cute/scary anti-hero stance.

It could have made more sense for both the story and the director's comments if the song had the lyrics, I need all your attention. But hey, they were pleased as pigs in mud that they got some Led Zepplin songs because it was such a catch for them, that they had to make that work; I get it.

Nothing about Adora or Amma is about love. Nothing. They are controlling sadistic psychopathic personalities and they consume peoples attention, and what normal people would call love; like Camille, who is shown happy with even the lowest spark of what appears to be love.   A& A are a different breed.   They dont love. They consume people. Adora consumed Marian. Amma consumed those girls she killed.

Again, go back to the scene where Amma tells Camille she could just "EAT" her. Nothing about that delivery is about admiration or love for Camille. Go back to Ammaa's reaction shot after she asks  Camille if she would be sadder if Amma or John died, and Camille says she doesnt want either Amma or John to die. Go back to Amma standing on the landing of the second story looking across the hall and glowering, those are all prescient of the ending. Those scenes are not meant to be overlooked or  given a soft interpretation.

I  guess this show can be called art. It's manipulative enough. I did like a lot of it, visually and in the acting, in some of the plot usage. And YMMV on some of it, because of that.

I agree with you that the tonal shift of the ending was the worst part. That one moment completely changed the show you had been watching for 8 hours from one about Camille and her journey into a show about Amma.

It only took two seconds to turn her into the most interesting character on the show. And I certainly think it was intentional as you do that she never looked prettier than she did in that moment

[weaver]

Here is an interesting interview with Elizabeth Perkins that alludes to scenes that were shot and not shown and what happens to Adora.  Fascinating.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/elizabeth-perkins-sharp-objects_us_5b807257e4b072951512e48b

[peach]

4 hours ago, Schmolioot said:

All of this is he sign of a girl without boundaries who needs psychological help. It did not signify a violent murderer who turns into the Hulk when she’s angry

Well, it is a show about someone secretly being a violent murderer, so it's in that context.  I perceived it as worse than a lack of boundaries, to me she seemed menacing and that she was attempting to dominate Camille with that behavior.  She wanted her to be uncomfortable.  MMV of course.

[Teitr Styrr]

Well, I loved it, beginning to end. If I had one suggestion, it would be that they didn't need the killing montage during the credits. Amy Adams expression, the reveal of the dollhouse floor and "don't tell mama" was creepy enough for me. 

ETA: I forgot to add that it doesn't need a season 2. If there is one I suppose I'd watch, but I don't see how they can continue in Wind Gap. Maybe something like True Detective, different story with different actors, or even AHS, different story, same actors. I dunno.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Teitr Styrr

[PepSinger]

2 hours ago, weaver said:

Here is an interesting interview with Elizabeth Perkins that alludes to scenes that were shot and not shown and what happens to Adora.  Fascinating.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/elizabeth-perkins-sharp-objects_us_5b807257e4b072951512e48b

What I don't understand is that this is on HBO. They don't really have time constraints, do they? So why weren't these scenes left in the final version of the episode?

[peach]

44 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

What I don't understand is that this is on HBO. They don't really have time constraints, do they? So why weren't these scenes left in the final version of the episode?

According to her interview, she didn't understand it either!  It would be less annoying if they didn't spend so much time on Camille driving around.

Quote

Seeing what Jean-Marc chooses to put out there is a surprise to all of us, and particularly in Episode 8.

They filmed a linear story and then he edited it in this nonlinear dreamlike way.  She says the story was wrapped up in shooting, he just didn't include it.

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by peach

[PepSinger]

1 hour ago, peach said:

According to her interview, she didn't understand it either!  It would be less annoying if they didn't spend so much time on Camille driving around.

They filmed a linear story and then he edited it in this nonlinear dreamlike way.  She says the story was wrapped up in shooting, he just didn't include it.

 

 

**Sigh**. It's not that I didn't enjoy the episode or the series because despite my critiques, I thoroughly enjoyed it. However, I just don't see the need for these scenes to be left on the cutting room floor. The series could've been great; instead, I would just leave it as good.

Also, I just realized Marc-Jean Vallée did the same sped-up/scene flash in Big Little Lies when they flashback to show what really happened to Perry.

Edited August 29, 2018 by PepSinger

[peach]

5 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

**Sigh**. It's not that I didn't enjoy the episode or the series because despite my critiques, I thoroughly enjoyed it. However, I just don't see the need for these scenes to be left on the cutting room floor. The series could've been great; instead, I would just leave it as good.

Also, I just realized Marc-Jean Vallée did the same sped-up/scene flash in Big Little Lies when they flashback to show what really happened to Perry.

 

The Elizabeth Perkins interview is pretty good in general, but I always have to laugh when actors express any hint of not liking how it turned out, they always follow up with how BRILLIANT those choices turned out.  They do this all the time with The Walking Dead.  Sure this makes NO SENSE and destroys the entire fabric of the show...but it's so brilliant and necessary.

Edited August 29, 2018 by peach

[carrps]

15 hours ago, peach said:

I enjoyed Stranger Things but never went back for Season 2.  Can't imagine another season of this.

 

12 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

I'm interested in seeing what a Season 2 looks like just like a Season 2 of Big Little Lies.  It's like they planned these to be 1 season (and they usually conclude with the mystery they dangle in front of us) but they see the ratings and the awards they get and they get greedy.  That part bugs me. The part that doesn't bug me is we have compelling actresses in these roles and I love watching them. 

I was really disappointed to see them do a season 2 of Big Little Lies. I loved the show, but doing another season seems unnecessary and, as someone said, greedy. Also, self-congratulatory. I'm not even sure if I'll watch it. Sequels are nearly always inferior.

Sharp Objects does not need a second season, either. Why?