S05.E11: Fraudlein

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The Empirical gang heads to Frankfurt for the world's biggest annual book fair.

Original airdate: 8/21/18

[MissLucas]

Just had a look at the promo shots. Yep, the writers still cling to their Handbook of Ye Old Stereotype.

[voiceover]

Possibly one of my least favorite episodes, though Charles & Liza had some sweet moments ("Butlers in Love" = bwah!  Definitely an Empirical title).

I don't trust the Martha Plimpton character as far as I could throw a bierhaus, but it could be a tidy solution.  

I get that Miriam Shor, like Sutton Foster, is a Broadway star, but the "Cabaret" number just rang false.  It was nice! but wrong for the character.  If they'd done it as karaoke, sure.  

I was wondering how they were going to shoehorn Josh into tonight's show.  Eh.

All that money for a location shoot, and this is what we got?

[dubbel zout]

Oh, Kelsey. Kelsey, Kelsey, Kelsey. 

There's no way in hell Liza has a contract with Empirical. Entry-level employees don't rate them. 

Charles must be a terrible businessman (well, we know he's not that great) if he can't get investors. Empirical is not that big, it has decent potential, and he's the sole owner. The debt load must be alarmingly high.

The high point by a mile was Miriam Shor and Martha Plimpton singing "Wilkommen." If only they'd gotten four more numbers.

[retrograde]

Josh, a 20-something tattoo artist from Williamsburg who plays the washboard in a folk band, is gonna gripe about Brooklyn hipsters?

[Yeah No]

In other threads going back a ways I predicted two things from this episode.  The first is Liza coming to the conclusion that accepting a job offer at another company would "solve" all her problems.  Too bad the Martha Plimpton character is the wrong choice for that and can only cause even more problems.  I thought, "It's a TRAP, It's a TRAP!"  Liza is so desperate to get out of her tangled web that she's careening headlong into another potentially worse one.  Yikes.

The other prediction I made after the end of last season is that Josh would have gotten his Irish wife pregnant so the show would have a way for him to get children out of his system, opening the door for Liza again.  Of course, this is probably an even better solution.  Keeping it "all in the family" so to speak.

52 minutes ago, retrograde said:

Josh, a 20-something tattoo artist from Williamsburg who plays the washboard in a folk band, is gonna gripe about Brooklyn hipsters?

LOL, that's like Jeff Bridges' character in "The Big Lebowski" who famously hated the Eagles, when he was the embodiment of everything they stood for.

[Aulty]

meh, only a mildly entertaining episode, so much klischee.

I knew that Carol would find out about Liza and Charles when I saw the promo and it will not end well. Why would Liza go fraternize with Plaza anyway - that was a snapshot decision. If anything, she should call Jay.

Did Zane redeem himself finally? Not sure, if he doesn't land the Scicillian Godfather will he be fired?

I would find it an interesting take, if they honed in on the millenials realizing that they are getting 'old' now too - the dinner scene with Josh complaining about hipsters and the episode with Lauren's assistant gave nice hints about that and it would make them more emphatic towards Liza's situation.

I liked Carol and Diana singing - but not as part of the episode.

[retrograde]

Liza accepting the job without negotiating salary or even finding out what the job is was pretty dumb. Probably want to sort all of that out and actually have paperwork in hand before jumping back into bed with Charles. 

[morakot]

Charles has got to be one of the worst businessmen in New York. It was about October when he couldn't make payroll, December when he was handing out jaw-dropping bonuses, and now a few months later, they're broke again.* Why doesn't he sell his country place? That should cover at least a couple of months of payroll.

 

*Of course, Bing tells me that the Frankfurt Book Fair is in mid-October, so I guess it could be a year since he's was broke last time... Nah, this show lives in its own timeline.

P.S. I was amused to hear that AARP is one of the sponsors of Younger.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, Liza. Your initial instinct not to trust a person who has already threatened to expose you in the not so recent past was correct. Deciding to accept that job offer without having anything in writing about your job title, responsibilities, salary, and benefits was not a great idea - and that's before you take into account who that job offer came from.

I actually thought the big thing in this episode would be Cheryl and Diana getting drunk together and then Cheryl telling Diana about Liza's real age. But hey, there's still plenty of time for that to happen next week in the season finale! I'm pretty sure she's rescinding that unofficial job offer now that she knows Liza slept with Charles. Now the question is whether she's going to blab Liza's secret. Since Liza and Kelsey were leaving the hotel with their suitcases, I'm guessing it's too late for Cheryl to expose Liza to everyone at the book fair which means she will try to get her fired by telling Charles or Diana.

4 hours ago, retrograde said:

Josh, a 20-something tattoo artist from Williamsburg who plays the washboard in a folk band, is gonna gripe about Brooklyn hipsters?

I KNOW!!!! When he started complaining about the hipster couple that came into his tattoo shop, I was like BITCH, PLEASE. You are the very definition of a hipster and your customer base is almost exclusively hipsters yet you have the nerve to complain about hipsters? Take a look in the mirror first, Mr. I Play in an Adult Kickball League. Maggie, who has lived in her neighborhood for 20+ years, has the right to complain about gentrification and the hipster invasion. Josh does not because he IS the hipster gentrification.

[Ms Lark]

This was one of the all-time worst episodes yet. Charles is terrible at managing his company. Maybe he'll stand down and hand the CEO title to Diana. That would be a solution. Liza needs to learn negotiating skills. I'm surprised Cheryl didn't spill the beans to Diana. It does not bode well if Liza leaves. Millennial will tank since Kelsey has no self-control and needs to be reined in frequently. Laying odds she sleeps with the Godfather author, too, because that's what she does. This is the most unprofessional batch of employees I've seen in a long time. They belong on Lifetime they're so bad! No wonder the company is in dire straits!

[MissEwa]

Aside from all the reasons listed above for why Charles is terrible at running a company, why was he telling Liza all those details about Empirical's situation and the potential investors? I get that he's sad and wants a friend but a) they're not together and b) she's STILL HIS EMPLOYEE and surely this kind of stuff should remain somewhat confidential and not blabbed to a Marketing Assistant because you have a crush on her. At the very least his investors probably don't want their names casually dropped before they've even committed. He has no boundaries, it's so hard to watch.  

Also yeah they mucked up the timeline - Christmas was three (?) episodes ago and now it's the Mid-October Frankfurt Book Fair. Nope. Although maybe that's an answer to that whole 'how did Marriage Vacation go from a pitch to finished to released to on Good Morning America in five episodes?' question from last season - there's some sort of time-space thing going on and every week of personal-life show-time is actually three months of Empirical/Millenial show-time. 

[Aulty]

1 hour ago, MissEwa said:

Also yeah they mucked up the timeline - Christmas was three (?) episodes ago and now it's the Mid-October Frankfurt Book Fair. Nope. Although maybe that's an answer to that whole 'how did Marriage Vacation go from a pitch to finished to released to on Good Morning America in five episodes?'

An 'Capitol Letters' (the book Zane and Kelsey worked on before she got too schmoozey with the author) is already published too!

[chitowngirl]

Did Liza have her travel wallet hanging outside her shirt? That kind of defeats the purpose. And Travelers Checks? Really? You’re not that old!! I’m 10 years older than Liza and haven’t used Travelers Checks since the 1980s.

[skotnikov]

Wow that was like an old bubble gum without taste whatsoever. At this point all I really want is for Charles to marry Liza, get cancer, die, and free Liza to marry Josh. With their weird time-jumps they can manage to do it in say 6 episodes max.

Besides the Russian translation of "Capitol Letters" was ridiculous.  

Edited August 22, 2018 by skotnikov

[Lovecat]

6 hours ago, morakot said:

P.S. I was amused to hear that AARP is one of the sponsors of Younger.

I literally guffawed. Well played, AARP!

[MissLucas]

Sheesh, that brought back not so great memories. In a prior job I had to handle logistics for getting a stall at the Frankfurt book fair - it was a nightmare of blueprints and red tape that had to be handed in months beforehand. Charles offhandedly announcing 'yeah, we're going to Frankfurt next week' and everybody acting surprised was another instance of tv-land beating real life down for good. But I get it - nobody wants to see the boring parts of such a venture.

Liza's an idiot - it took rude/blunt German lady (another stereotype ticked off the writers list right next to lederhosen) for her to realize that she needs to leave the company? And then she takes the offer of someone like Cheryl without first checking if Jay Malick's offer still stands? Of course she won't end up at Plaza now that Cheryl knows she and Charles are an item. 

In the meantime Charles remains the worst businessman on tv and Josh gets to whine about hipsters while being reduced to a sperm-donating prop in yet another plot on this show where the baby-question ends a relationship.

Needless to say the Cabaret number was the best thing about this episode regardless of how out of character it was.

[dubbel zout]

6 hours ago, morakot said:

Why doesn't he sell his country place? That should cover at least a couple of months of payroll.

It's a drop in the bucket to what the company really needs, and frankly, he's better off keeping his personal and business finances separate.

4 hours ago, Ms Lark said:

I'm surprised Cheryl didn't spill the beans to Diana.

She told Liza she wasn't going to out her. That doesn't mean she won't, but I think the threat of that always being there is more effective than actually spilling the beans. Once the secret is out, no more leverage, tacit or otherwise.

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

Travelers Checks?

Oof, I know. I'm with Kelsey: They still exist? I used them back in the dark ages of 1984, when I gallivanted around Europe, but even then fewer places would accept them—banks were the best place to exchange them—and they were like cash, so if you lost them, you were screwed. I had a credit card for emergencies. (Back then it had to be either Amex, Visa, or Diner's Club [LOLOLOL] as MasterCard wasn't as widely accepted in Europe for some reason.)

As for the wonky time line, eh. It doesn't bother me and never has. All the work stuff is to move the plot along, and I'm fine with things being so compressed. Or not, depending on what's needed. That's fiction for ya!

[Aulty]

8 hours ago, morakot said:

Why doesn't he sell his country place? That should cover at least a couple of months of payroll.

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

It's a drop in the bucket to what the company really needs, and frankly, he's better off keeping his personal and business finances separate.

It also is probably not an option while the divorce isn't settled. I somehow expect him to sell the business to the Claw-billionaire, thus taking himself out of the Liza-equation.

[politichick]

8 minutes ago, Aulty said:

It also is probably not an option while the divorce isn't settled. I somehow expect him to sell the business to the Claw-billionaire, thus taking himself out of the Liza-equation.

I can't imagine he'd sell it outright, but perhaps a good chunk of it. It is after all a business he inherited and may want to pass on to his kids. And even if they're not interested, he may still want to own a good portion until he retires or dies. He definitely needs a strong CFO cause money clearly ain't his thing.

[MostlyC]

It’s a time honored tradition:  Hipsters complain about Hipsters because they would never acknowledge that they are a Hipster in the first place.

I had a ex who complained about hipsters who combed his handlebar mustache, put on a hat, rolled his own cigarettes, and lived in W’burg.  “Fucking hipsters!” he’d complain while ordering cheap beer because pabst was cool (even though he privately told me it was swill).

[morakot]

7 hours ago, MissEwa said:

why was he telling Liza all those details about Empirical's situation and the potential investors?

It was also in public, in a place where he was surrounded by authors, competitors and industry insiders, as well as his potential investors. I know beer halls can be loud but that doesn't mean you have conversations filled with confidential information. I bet that neither Empirical nor Millennial are publishing e-books or audible books either. It's been decades since traditional publishing merged with the tech world.

[Ms Lark]

1 hour ago, politichick said:

I can't imagine he'd sell it outright, but perhaps a good chunk of it.

Maybe he'll sell Millennial to Claw-zilla.

14 minutes ago, morakot said:

I bet that neither Empirical nor Millennial are publishing e-books or audible books either.

Which I find very odd, especially for Millennial!

4 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Travelers Checks? Really? You’re not that old!! I’m 10 years older than Liza and haven’t used Travelers Checks since the 1980s.

Ditto, and I'm decades older than you! I don't know anyone my age or older that uses them. They went out about the time PCs were invented (by boomers, I might add). That's just ignorance on the writers' part. Are they 20? Do they realize 40 isn't ancient?

[howiveaddict]

17 hours ago, voiceover said:

Possibly one of my least favorite episodes, though Charles & Liza had some sweet moments ("Butlers in Love" = bwah!  Definitely an Empirical title).

I don't trust the Martha Plimpton character as far as I could throw a bierhaus, but it could be a tidy solution.  

I get that Miriam Shor, like Sutton Foster, is a Broadway star, but the "Cabaret" number just rang false.  It was nice! but wrong for the character.  If they'd done it as karaoke, sure.  

I was wondering how they were going to shoehorn Josh into tonight's show.  Eh.

All that money for a location shoot, and this is what we got?

Did they even really go on location.   None of them were in the small outdoor glimpses.   

[slaterain]

The traveler's cheques cracked me up! I moved about 3 years ago and found a few that I got in the late 90s when traveling in Australia at my mom's insistence. I'm sure I still have them because I mostly just used my credit cards! I really should go cash them in but I honestly forget about them so often that I feel it will be a real nice surprise at a time I really could use them! HA!
 

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, howiveaddict said:

Did they even really go on location.   None of them were in the small outdoor glimpses.   

I highly doubt it - they certainly couldn't shoot at the book fair (logistics) and all the other indoor shots looked fairly generic "Hollywood does Europe" to me. I'm also puzzled by the fact that a bierhalle in Frankfurt would put the Bavarian flag on its walls and have waiters running around in lederhosen (it could be a tourist-trap set up for the book fair only). But the killing argument is that we never got to see any characters outdoors. What we got to see was stock footage of cobblestone streets and half-timbered buildings.

[bilgistic]

Kelsey really needs to stop drinking so much at company functions. She gets stumbling drunk at every single one, and it's looking more and more like she has a problem controlling her drinking.

[sashayshante]

Kelsey thinks Zane is the type of guy to force himself on a woman while she's inebriated, yet she dated and still has feelings for him. Hello, writers? A little continuity, please? Also, can we not praise men for not being rapists?

The Andrea Merkle looking reporter said what we've all been saying. "You're 27? SERIOUSLY?"

 

Ugh, please break Maggie and that buzzkill of a girlfriend up. She's a fucking nag.

[Beantown Gal]

I'm wondering: If Cheryl and Diana knew each other from when they were beginning their careers, and Cheryl and Liza were co-workers at that same time, I'm wondering if Diana remembers Liza from years ago (they may not have worked at the same company, but like most industries, most of the players know or know of each other)? 

[Lambira]

I never thought I'd say this, but this show is starting to make me sad.  I don't feel like they are transitioning well from the original premise of Liza hiding her age from everybody and trying to find her way, to whatever the new premise of the show is supposed to be.

The continuity of each character is becoming more and more erratic (as others have said, while I enjoyed the Diana/Cheryl number that is COMPLETELY out of character for her).  The outlandishness of the unprofessionalism and the complete disregard by everyone at Empirical for the same (as others have said, Kelsey gets plastered IN FRONT OF HER BOSS with alarming regularity, for just one example) is becoming harder to watch without making me completely irritated.  

The time jumps either don't make sense, or don't allow us to make sense of what has happened.  I still don't understand how Liza and Charles went from first sleeping together, to spending boring domestic nights together, to breaking up, to missing each other so badly, to sleeping together again, all within the span of 3 or so episodes.

Charles is (again as others have said) seemingly the least astute and competent businessperson ever, and to me is still more morose and boring than brooding and sexy.  And although I have been #teamJosh since the beginning, his appearance in episodes feels increasingly marginal, forced, and unsatisfying.  

I hope, but don't expect, that the last episode of the season brings me back to the level of fondness I had for this show the first 5 seasons.  Of course I'm going to watch season 7 no matter what, but I wish I was as excited for every episode as I once was...

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Beantown Gal said:

I'm wondering if Diana remembers Liza from years ago (they may not have worked at the same company, but like most industries, most of the players know or know of each other)? 

It's reasonable to me that Diana didn't know Liza back when, especially if they were all entry-level assistants. There's a decent about of turnover, and unless you actually worked together, you can't know everyone. I don't think Liza started out in sales and marketing, did she? That makes it even more unlikely she and Diana crossed paths, especially if they were at different companies.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 8/22/2018 at 12:19 AM, Yeah No said:

LOL, that's like Jeff Bridges' character in "The Big Lebowski" who famously hated the Eagles, when he was the embodiment of everything they stood for.

What do The Eagles stand for?  I love that movie, so I honestly don't know what you mean but I'm curious.

I found that episode really interesting, honestly.  I've actually been in the Frankfurt airport, and I thought the episode was really cute.  The plot moved forward and that doesn't happen often.

On 8/22/2018 at 10:15 AM, MissLucas said:

Liza's an idiot - it took rude/blunt German lady (another stereotype ticked off the writers list right next to lederhosen) for her to realize that she needs to leave the company?.

Hmm!  I thought that that person was paid by Martha Plimpton's character because nobody would actually do that.  But you're thinking of it from a different ankle, so now you've got me thinkin'.......

Edited August 23, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

15 hours ago, sashayshante said:

Kelsey thinks Zane is the type of guy to force himself on a woman while she's inebriated, yet she dated and still has feelings for him. Hello, writers? A little continuity, please? Also, can we not praise men for not being rapists?

Seriously, what the fuck?  When has Zane EVER acted like a guy that would take advantage of an inebriated woman?  EVER?  I know that there are men who would do it - unfortunately, from experience - but that would seem insanely out of character for Zane.  It was weird how Kelsey treated that as a totally normal thing.  I recognize that it happens, but it's weird to EXPECT it from a guy that you know well and work with?  That was really odd writing.

[MissLucas]

14 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Hmm!  I thought that that person was paid by Martha Plimpton's character because nobody would actually do that.  But you're thinking of it from a different ankle, so now you've got me thinkin'.......

Yes, that's another possibility; I thought so too at first. Then I remembered the supposedly blunt German approach to small-talk - it's a staple in almost every youtube clip about living in Germany so I wondered if that what was the writers were going for. It might be a combination of both: Cheryl's Machiavellian enough to set the whole thing up taking advantage of the cliché in order to push Liz into accepting her offer.

[LuvMyShows]

10 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Yes, that's another possibility; I thought so too at first. Then I remembered the supposedly blunt German approach to small-talk - it's a staple in almost every youtube clip about living in Germany so I wondered if that what was the writers were going for. It might be a combination of both: Cheryl's Machiavellian enough to set the whole thing up taking advantage of the cliché in order to push Liz into accepting her offer.

If Cheryl had planted her, I think she would have taken great pleasure in revealing that to Liza.  So I think it was just a really, really weirdly written situation, and given that there appeared to be more hands up with questions at the end, Liza or Kelsey would in actuality have been far more forceful (pleasantly) about moving on to other people.

[sashayshante]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Seriously, what the fuck?  When has Zane EVER acted like a guy that would take advantage of an inebriated woman?  EVER?  I know that there are men who would do it - unfortunately, from experience - but that would seem insanely out of character for Zane.  It was weird how Kelsey treated that as a totally normal thing.  I recognize that it happens, but it's weird to EXPECT it from a guy that you know well and work with?  That was really odd writing.

They've destroyed every character on this show except Diana. Diana is the only one with an arc. With each season she evolves more emotionally. Everybody else? They're the exact same person. If they hadn't started adding layers to Carrie, Miranda, etc I would have bailed on SATC after season two. Up to that point, the characters were all insufferable. That's where I'm at with this show. These people are AWFUL.

 

And for the love of God, will someone please think of the children and fix Kelseys's foundation ?

[MissEwa]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Seriously, what the fuck?  When has Zane EVER acted like a guy that would take advantage of an inebriated woman?  EVER?  I know that there are men who would do it - unfortunately, from experience - but that would seem insanely out of character for Zane.  It was weird how Kelsey treated that as a totally normal thing.  I recognize that it happens, but it's weird to EXPECT it from a guy that you know well and work with?  That was really odd writing.

I actually found this relatively believable, and I don't think she specifically thought this of Zane but that past experience has shown her that she should expect it period. Kelsey's not exactly had the best of experience with men - even if you ignore all the totally inappropriate flings she's had with writers and co-workers, she was engaged to Thad! It rang depressingly true to me that being taken advantage of while inebriated is within her realm of "normal". 

Edited August 23, 2018 by MissEwa

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, MissEwa said:

It rang depressingly true to me that being taken advantage of while inebriated is within her realm of "normal". 

It seems like she's never not inebriated when she goes anywhere so it wouldn't surprise me if she's used to being taken advantage of. Girl needs to seriously evaluate her social life because it is terrible. 

[BellyLaughter]

They are struggling so badly to keep Josh relevant it feels like we’re watching 2 shows in the space of 21 minutes.... honestly Maggie and Josh could be their own show about long time Brooklyn resident longs for the good old days but slowly comes to love her hipster neighbour as the gentrification takes hold....everything feels rushed - even Lauren the “Creed Bratton” of this show 

Edited August 23, 2018 by BellyLaughter

[Ms Blue Jay]

If Liza joins another corporation everyone in her life will be in a different space than her, except for Maggie - does she still live with Maggie?

Diana, Charles - Imprint
Kelsey - Millennial
Liza - Martha Plimpton's company
Josh - Hipsterville
Lauren - (I forgot about Lauren if not for @BellyLaughter)

etc.  How is this show going to keep them all together?  LOL......  

Edited August 24, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[chitowngirl]

Will Cheryl even remember Liza accepting the offer?

[dubbel zout]

Cheryl strikes me as someone who never forgets anything.

[7-Zark-7]

23 hours ago, sashayshante said:

And for the love of God, will someone please think of the children and fix Kelseys's foundation ?

Yes! Yes! Yes! Both she and Diana look greenish yellow at times. It’s very weird. I get transfixed by it. Sutton doesn’t come across that way, and Debi Mazar was originally a makeup artist, so she probably doesn’t let anyone else get near her face.

[MissLucas]

23 hours ago, sashayshante said:

They've destroyed every character on this show except Diana. Diana is the only one with an arc. With each season she evolves more emotionally.

This! I recently caught a season one episode rerun and the writing for Diana has not just evolved it has also improved. She was pretty one-dimensional (though that's par for the course early in a show) and Liza's main antagonist. Back when season one aired I would not have believed that Diana will one day be the character I'm rooting for. How come the 40-something character seems to mature and grow more than the 20-something (and wannabe) folks?

Edited August 24, 2018 by MissLucas

[prunieprune]

Finally got around to watching this episode and I didn't hate as much as some of the other commentators.  Maybe that's because I read the comments beforehand and was expecting it to be sub-par.   The Cabaret performance was fun, and I actually didn't think it was too out of character- Diana has made comments about her wild past and she is loosening up in many ways.  Maybe the tightly-wound Diana we saw in the first few seasons was the exception in her life due to her general unhappiness at that time.  

Kelsey does appear to have drinking issues, which aren't cute, funny, or youthful.  I would like to see the show really tackle that head on-it's not professional.  The show has told us she's a rock star at her job many times, but all I see is her getting romantically involved inappropriately and fall down drunk all the time.  The best business moves have all been made by Liza, IMO.  

The story arc with Liza's age does seem to be done.  They should just have her do the inevitable and write the company saving bestseller based on her experiences.  

However, I am still interested in the characters, and I think that they can expand the focus.  I'd like to see Kelsey, Lauren, and Josh authentically engage with aging and developmental changes themselves.  I'm also up for Maggie going through some changes with deciding whether she wants to commit to a woman seeking a child.  

However, I don't know if Josh having a kid with Maggie's girlfriend (Malka?) will tie everything up together nicely in terms of getting Liza and Josh back together.  Liza has said that ship has sailed, but it's not clear if she's talking about physically giving birth or parenting.  Parenting very young children (which she would be helping Josh with if they were together) is a lot of work.  You can't seriously date an involved father without taking it on.  Charles' daughter's are older and although they will require emotional work they won't require as much physical labor (plus they already like Liza).  

[Yeah No]

On 8/23/2018 at 2:24 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

What do The Eagles stand for?  I love that movie, so I honestly don't know what you mean but I'm curious.

A lot of aging SoCal hippies hated what they saw as the milquetoast, popularized, watered-down version of their laid back "takin' it easy" lifestyle as typified by the Eagles.  The only thing is that if they looked in the mirror, that is exactly what they themselves had become.

[Yeah No]

On 8/22/2018 at 1:52 PM, Ms Lark said:

On 8/22/2018 at 8:49 AM, chitowngirl said:

Travelers Checks? Really? You’re not that old!! I’m 10 years older than Liza and haven’t used Travelers Checks since the 1980s.

Ditto, and I'm decades older than you! I don't know anyone my age or older that uses them. They went out about the time PCs were invented (by boomers, I might add). That's just ignorance on the writers' part. Are they 20? Do they realize 40 isn't ancient?

I just turned 60 and I didn't even think they still made travelers' checks.  I doubt most people at 40 would even know much about them.  When I went overseas in 2004 I asked well traveled friends if travelers' checks were a good idea, and even back then most people told me they were passé and it was hard to find places that would take them.  Now I'm reading that they are not taken in most places anymore and are rarely used.  Especially now with "chip and PIN" technology on most US credit cards, they're not needed anymore because you'll have no trouble using your credit card, especially in Europe.  So I don't buy this bit with Liza AT ALL.  They continue to make her act like she's at least 20 years older and lives under a rock.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

On 8/22/2018 at 5:13 AM, Ms Lark said:

This was one of the all-time worst episodes yet. Charles is terrible at managing his company. Maybe he'll stand down and hand the CEO title to Diana. That would be a solution. Liza needs to learn negotiating skills.

On 8/22/2018 at 10:15 AM, MissLucas said:

Liza's an idiot - it took rude/blunt German lady (another stereotype ticked off the writers list right next to lederhosen) for her to realize that she needs to leave the company? And then she takes the offer of someone like Cheryl without first checking if Jay Malick's offer still stands? Of course she won't end up at Plaza now that Cheryl knows she and Charles are an item.

At first, I chalked up the way Liza acts like such a spineless wimp to her not wanting to overstep her "role" boundaries as a young subordinate, but now that most people in her inner circle know her real age, why is she still acting like the inexperienced, air-headed ingenue that blows with every wind and lets herself be pushed around, but doesn't think and act assertively or with her head?  The only episode where she showed any real spine at all was the one where she managed to get that manuscript from that eccentric writer for Charles after he gave up on it.

[traveladdie]

On 8/22/2018 at 4:19 PM, bilgistic said:

Kelsey really needs to stop drinking so much at company functions. She gets stumbling drunk at every single one, and it's looking more and more like she has a problem controlling her drinking.

I think that is where they are going with all of this. 

On 8/22/2018 at 1:06 PM, howiveaddict said:

Did they even really go on location.   None of them were in the small outdoor glimpses.   

They did sent some crew  over there to shoot exteriors. 

[MostlyC]

The stage/scene where they had Diana’s Cabaret performance looked remarkably like the Slipper Room in the LES.