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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

Door County Cherry

By Door County Cherry
in Arrow

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

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 I don't see fearing that show going ALL FF because ultimately they're no different than the flashbacks, just a technique to further the main story (SA/Oliver)

That's another good reason not to think the goal is to let the next generation take over the show.  I do get why the question has come up though since when the future is set, then the present starts to feel a bit like flashbacks

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

Anyone who actually thinks she's dead deserves the crushing disappointment they'll feel when they find out she isn't. 

Chaser
Chaser

“Felicity my love, let’s make a baby. I want to expand our family.” ”Oh Oliver...” ”That way a piece of me will always be with you.” ..........”What the Fuck did you do?”

apinknightmare
apinknightmare

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bethy

bethy

As a Lost fan, I have a hard time not comparing the handling of the FF here with the way they handled them on Lost. Nevermind the amazing "We have to go back!" reveal, that show managed to provide effective and tantalizing hints about what had happened and show development for the characters--both in the future and the present--in a way that didn't make you feel like "Well, what's the point of really following what's going on in the present if I know what happened in the future." 

Of course, Lost was also willing to ditch characters that weren't working in a way that Arrow doesn't seem to be able to, so I mostly cared about all the characters in the FF there, whereas here I really don't. 

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jay741982

jay741982

3 hours ago, bethy said:

As a Lost fan, I have a hard time not comparing the handling of the FF here with the way they handled them on Lost. Nevermind the amazing "We have to go back!" reveal, that show managed to provide effective and tantalizing hints about what had happened and show development for the characters--both in the future and the present--in a way that didn't make you feel like "Well, what's the point of really following what's going on in the present if I know what happened in the future." 

Of course, Lost was also willing to ditch characters that weren't working in a way that Arrow doesn't seem to be able to, so I mostly cared about all the characters in the FF there, whereas here I really don't. 

I think if the Flashforwards were connected to the current timeline by Diggle and Roy instead of a widely unpopular character it would be better JMO. Diggles had his issues lately with dumb writers screwing up the character but hes not Dinah level of hatred. Also I feel they really need to reveal who Blackstar/Maya really is ASAP on the show and she possibly really should be Olicity Daughter with the Secercy around the Character and it being a "Pivotal" Role. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

5 hours ago, bethy said:

As a Lost fan, I have a hard time not comparing the handling of the FF here with the way they handled them on Lost. Nevermind the amazing "We have to go back!" reveal, that show managed to provide effective and tantalizing hints about what had happened and show development for the characters--both in the future and the present--in a way that didn't make you feel like "Well, what's the point of really following what's going on in the present if I know what happened in the future." 

Of course, Lost was also willing to ditch characters that weren't working in a way that Arrow doesn't seem to be able to, so I mostly cared about all the characters in the FF there, whereas here I really don't. 

Lost did Flashforwards but not so far into the future.  It's the twenty plus years that makes if feel like most of what happens in the present ultimately is/was pointless when it came to saving the city.  

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bethy

bethy

(edited)
2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Lost did Flashforwards but not so far into the future.  It's the twenty plus years that makes if feel like most of what happens in the present ultimately is/was pointless when it came to saving the city.  

Oh, yeah, for sure, the amount of time that's passed is part of it.

If they wanted to go that far into the future, though, they should have figured out how to set up what was happening 20 years later in a way that didn't leave the viewers feeling like what the characters are doing in the present isn't going to make a lick of difference. As is often the case with the Arrow writers I think they are too easily distracted by "Ooo, shiny!" and so they don't do the necessary work to make sure their new toy actually fits with the characters they've got and the story they want to tell long term. 

Edited by bethy
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bijoux

bijoux

Why is Roy now orange as well? Is this a cautionary environmental storyline, there is no ozone layer over SC 20 years down the line? What the hell is going on? Are the kids going to turn orange as well? Damn Oompa Loompas all around.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Curtis' boyfriend is doomed - cue up Curtis' emotional arc...

‘Arrow’s Evan Roderick Joins Netflix Drama Series ‘Spinning Out’
Denise Petski   December 19, 2018
https://deadline.com/2018/12/spinning-out-evan-roderick-cast-netflix-drama-series-kaya-scodelario-1202523201/ 

Evan Roderick's IMDb page lists him in the credits for 711 (Past Sins - DR as director):
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm7754841/ 

I bet that his character is killed by Diaz in this episode. Then Curtis will blame Oliver for letting Diaz live. And Oliver & Felicity will be angry at Diggle & Lyla for keeping secret their asking Diaz for help (after Diaz's sudden but inevitable betrayal). [UPDATE: He's also in 712 (Emerald Archer).]

Interestingly, Liam Hall (as Kane Wolfman) is also listed in the cast credits for 711:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7508632/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_2
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5795531/?ref_=tt_cl_t13

Also listed in the 711 cast credits are Kathryn Bouchard, who's playing "Erin (Co-Worker)," and Peter Graham-Gaudreau, who's playing "Brett Collins."

Edited by tv echo
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bethy

bethy

Here's hoping that Curtis also dies. Or quits the team in a huff. Whatever gets him off my screen would be fine with me. Though since I'm assuming we wouldn't be so lucky as to have them actually kill off Curtis, I foresee a LOT of "SHUT UP, Curtis!" in my future. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

18 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I still think he's a goner sometime this season..

Oh, definitely. It'll be the motivation Curtis needs to suit up again. *rolls eyes* Because you know, he's totally helpful and necessary in the field. 

Also, we've probably been getting these Diggle/Curtis scenes so then Diggle can feel bad about Curtis's BF's death because of Diaz ... just like he felt guilty in S4 about Laurel's death. 

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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)

Unless it's 712, it'll have to be some episode later like 715 I guess? Since looks like 712 is some big reunion episode, 713 looks like it'll be some Olicity/FF heavy episode (or at least those are the only types of scenes we know they filmed for 713) and then who knows what they did this week for 714 besides possibly some other FF.

In thinking about it, I wonder if they just pushed 714 to start after the new year and are just using the time for some reshoots for FF for 710 like they did for 410 shooting the last scene during 414, since there were 2 days last week then they wore the same outfits from 708 and the rest of the time wore completely different outfits.

Edited by way2interested
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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

(edited)
Fun? This show? Does not compute. I can't imagine any episode that involves Oliver still working with the SCPD could be fun, but I guess we'll see.
Edited by KenyaJ
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Mary0360

Mary0360

14 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:
Fun? This show? Does not compute. I can't imagine any episode that involves Oliver still working with the SCPD could be fun, but I guess we'll see.

I don't trust Stephens idea of fun. The episodes he usually finds fun are usually crap- such as the crossover most recently. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

6 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

I don't trust Stephens idea of fun. The episodes he usually finds fun are usually crap- such as the crossover most recently. 

I'm still hoping for the documentary style episode.  

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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)

Which other episodes has he described as fun again? All I remember was the crossover (which, tbh, he was the best part of it and he was the one who was entertaining, so I'll give him half credit) and then 417, which was hilarious.

Edited by way2interested
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Guest

Guest

I very rarely ever trust or agree with SA's opinion on an episode so my expectations for the 150th haven't changed. They're still very low. LOL.

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

Which other episodes has he described as fun again? All I remember was the crossover (which, tbh, he was the best part of it and he was the one who was entertaining, so I'll give him half credit) and then 417, which was hilarious.

Is 417 the bee ep? Did he like that? I loved the bee ep with Felicity jeering at the bee monster and them being a bit angsty! 

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Velocity23

Velocity23

18 hours ago, way2interested said:

Unless it's 712, it'll have to be some episode later like 715 I guess? Since looks like 712 is some big reunion episode, 713 looks like it'll be some Olicity/FF heavy episode (or at least those are the only types of scenes we know they filmed for 713) and then who knows what they did this week for 714 besides possibly some other FF.

In thinking about it, I wonder if they just pushed 714 to start after the new year and are just using the time for some reshoots for FF for 710 like they did for 410 shooting the last scene during 414, since there were 2 days last week then they wore the same outfits from 708 and the rest of the time wore completely different outfits.

Echo has been on vacation this whole week already. So i doubt he has that much to do in 13 or 14. Also the actor who plays the bf of Curtis implied he will back later on. 

03B6674C-74AC-4D2C-8A2B-6D385B6D7EE1.jpeg

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Trisha

Trisha

11 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Fun? This show? Does not compute. I can't imagine any episode that involves Oliver still working with the SCPD could be fun, but I guess we'll see.

I wonder if SA is going to start promoting the show as “fun” because he was so bummed out about his character winning that TV Line poll. The replies to his tweets were almost all complaints about how it’s not fun to watch him never catch a break.

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way2interested

way2interested

22 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Isn't SA always advocating for Oliver's demise at the end of the series? I would have thought he'd love all the misery because it's just sooooo artistic and clever.

I always interpreted that he wanted Oliver to get the heroic death, which isn't necessarily the same as loving misery. With a heroic death it's at least the end and there's not much dragging in that and usually the happiness at knowing that what the hero did was worth it, where SA's implied a bunch of times that the dark stuff gets exhausting (Heck, even as recent as his tweet for the Tvline stuff or for 701, he and EBR joked and said that why can't Olicity have a coffee date because doing scenes like in 701 are emotionally exhausting).

Also, he clearly loved shooting the crossover, so when he means fun he obviously just means the light stuff.

5 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Echo has been on vacation this whole week already. So i doubt he has that much to do in 13 or 14. A

Yeah, that's still why I'm getting the feeling 713 looks like it's FF heavy with Olicity, but then I'm lost at what the extra days would be for, since they should have finished 713 early this week, right?

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Chaser

Chaser

Their break starts tomorrow.

When was the last SA said he wanted to end the series with Oliver’s death? I feel like that was earlier on in the show. It’s possible his feelings have changed now that they have Oliver married with children and others already established to carry on for him (which is something I imagine his death would have been used for).

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Trisha

Trisha

 

I'm leaning more and more towards the theory that the 150th is going to be documentary-style interviews with everyone associated with Oliver/GA, which explains all the returning characters. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Hmm, not sure if I like that. It worked on SG1 but, I don't know if Arrow can make it work.

Oh wait, one idea ghat could work (for me) the B5 episode set through various points in the distant future where people are looking back at the importance of the Babylon Project.

It could be interesting to have the FF watching testimony about GA and use it to tie together the present/future. Although I might be the only one that likes that idea... 😁

Edited by Morrigan2575
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

On 12/20/2018 at 6:41 PM, way2interested said:

Which other episodes has he described as fun again? All I remember was the crossover (which, tbh, he was the best part of it and he was the one who was entertaining, so I'll give him half credit) and then 417, which was hilarious.

Did he say something like that about Reversal?  

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way2interested

way2interested

20 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Hmm, not sure if I like that. It worked on SG1 but, I don't know if Arrow can make it work.

Tbh, I'm picturing more like Monk's 100th episode (random association but still) where it pretty much still followed the same plot format of the show but it just had added a plot about a documentary team following them around to give new camera shots of the same types of scenes, cameo interviews along with main characters, and background story references given from past episodes.

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Did he say something like that about Reversal?  

I think so? I don't remember offhand. I'm just trying to remember an episode he called fun that wasn't in some way.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
19 hours ago, way2interested said:

Just Beth saying it's different from other episodes and SA posting the title card for The Office to describe 712.

It was all the random returning characters that made me suggest it was documentary style, that way they could fit in a bunch of small interviews without worrying how they connected to a plot.  

But Thea is one that is returning so I'm not thinking it's all documentary style.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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Featherhat

Featherhat

If it was LOT an animated episode would seem completely natural on Arrow I think it would just seem like some weird gimick they did, YMMV. A documentary ep is also gimmicky but more in line with the recent revelations about Oliver who is already famous both as Billionaire Playboy and Mayor. Who knew what when, Scandal etc.

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Trisha

Trisha

19 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

But Thea is one that is returning so I'm not thinking it's all documentary style.  

The way WH left I was surprised she agreed to come back to the show already. But I could see her doing a few “get that camera outta my face” shots and that being it.

It’s weird that they’re spoiling Rory’s return. I guess Beth can’t get mad if it’s coming from MG...

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Starfish35

Starfish35

5 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Her relationship with BS is could be better then hers with MG/WM and since BS is in charge now she could feel differently.

......ahahahaha I read BS as Black Siren, not Beth Schwartz, and now I’m feeling kind of dumb. 🤦🏻‍♀️

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