S04.E07: Episode 7

[JenE4]

Oh, I forgot to comment on a couple of other parts...

What the fuck with Helen lecturing Sierra about sleeping with married men immediately after SHE—a married woman or at least long-term cohabiting family—slept with Sierra?! “You know, it causes ripples throughout the whole family...” Yeah, no shit, so why’d you get it on with Sierra?! Do we ONLY blame the other woman now? Or was it simply because the show runners are fed up with people Tweeting and posting and whatnot about the theme song? “You know, it causes a RIPPLE like when someone SINKS back into the ocean. And that ECHOOOOOOOOOOO I created will outlast my last breath and affect Whitney forevermore because she’s going to outlive me. And she’ll fuck up her kids’ lives, and they’ll fuck up their kids’ lives... But, you know, that avalanche I created buried a man I never knew, and when he died his widowed bride met your daddy and they made you...” So, it turns out the stars of this show really aren’t Alison and Noah—because they only have one thing to do and that’s be the way that they are (ie, horny) and sink back into the ocean—but all of these other people who are impacted by their affairs. So, let’s give a shout out to the real heroes of the show: Anton’s dad, Furkat, the fiancée of Noah’s longtime friend that Helen slept with...

Oh, yeah, and Alison has disappeared. I’m just going to throw this out there... Has anyone checked Helen and Vic’s couch? Helen was so busy running off to get freaky in a yurt with some crystals and Noah was distracted trying to give ANY kid who would give him the time of day driving lessons, that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to flash to Alison waking up on the couch—-helloooo? Is anyone home??? And then she causes an avalanche with that house perched on the precipice.

Edited August 1, 2018 by JenE4

[attica]

16 hours ago, Lemons said:

It would literally take me one second before the panic button was pressed.  

You can leave the lights on! Or turn them back on! Lights are yours to control! I found the darkness eerie at first, but then it's just...there. It's not oppressive or close, you just start paying attention to your other senses, or what-all's going on in your mind.  I've read some research and anecdata saying it's promising therapy for PTSD, for what that's worth. 

[Lozu68]

4 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Oh, I forgot to comment on a couple of other parts...

What the fuck with Helen lecturing Sierra about sleeping with married men immediately after SHE—a married woman or at least long-term cohabiting family—slept with Sierra?! “You know, it causes ripples throughout the whole family...” Yeah, no shit, so why’d you get it on with Sierra?! Do we ONLY blame the other woman now? Or was it simply because the show runners are fed up with people Tweeting and posting and whatnot about the theme song? “You know, it causes a RIPPLE like when someone SINKS back into the ocean. And that ECHOOOOOOOOOOO I created will outlast my last breath and affect Whitney forevermore because she’s going to outlive me. And she’ll fuck up her kids’ lives, and they’ll fuck up their kids’ lives... But, you know, that avalanche I created buried a man I never knew, and when he died his widowed bride met your daddy and they made you...” So, it turns out the stars of this show really aren’t Alison and Noah—because they only have one thing to do and that’s be the way that they are (ie, horny) and sink back into the ocean—but all of these other people who are impacted by their affairs. So, let’s give a shout out to the real heroes of the show: Anton’s dad, Furkat, the fiancée of Noah’s longtime friend that Helen slept with...

Oh, yeah, and Alison has disappeared. I’m just going to throw this out there... Has anyone checked Helen and Vic’s couch? Helen was so busy running off to get freaky in a yurt with some crystals and Noah was distracted trying to give ANY kid who would give him the time of day driving lessons, that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to flash to Alison waking up on the couch—-helloooo? Is anyone home??? And then she causes an avalanche with that house perched on the precipice.

I am soooo interested to see where this heads...does Helen confess to Vik about her indiscretion with Sierra? Is that why she bolted out of the chamber...she sobered up enough to realize what she had just done?! It did seem really hypocritical. It made me wonder...I mean, I would call what she did with Sierra “cheating”....but are there some who think it isn’t??

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Guess Stacy’s not going on that damn field trip.

I figured Vik signed the permission slip and just wanted Helen to know she forgot. I sign for my stepdaughter all the time.

Quote

I like Vik, so to hear he is dying, makes me wonder if I'll watch if they kill him off.

They really should unless there's some misdiagnosis. But then, this is The Affair so he could linger or there could be a miracle cure or something.

Quote

 if my sons were even half as obnoxious and exhausting as Martin and Trevor, I too would latch onto the first sane, polite kid who took an interest in my work.

They are both assholes. Remember Martin opening the show by faking suicide as a prank? WTF??? He was a dick before Noah took off on his family.

Quote

That pregnant woman went from 0 to 100 in getting angry at Gaelle when they were all at that table (can't remember what it was about), but it came across as very stilted and random.

Pregnancy hormones?

[Lemons]

5 hours ago, attica said:

You can leave the lights on! Or turn them back on! Lights are yours to control! I found the darkness eerie at first, but then it's just...there. It's not oppressive or close, you just start paying attention to your other senses, or what-all's going on in your mind.  I've read some research and anecdata saying it's promising therapy for PTSD, for what that's worth. 

That would be better.  I panic at complete darkness.   I also have tinnitus.  My ears ring constantly and complete silence is torture.  I wonder how that would be?

[Razzberry]

Truer words were never spoken, Trevor.

 

Loved Noah's patio.  Where's he living, Topanga?

[CleoCaesar]

5 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

They are both assholes. Remember Martin opening the show by faking suicide as a prank? WTF??? He was a dick before Noah took off on his family.

I've hated Martin since the first ten minutes of the pilot for that sociopathic suicide prank. No normal person would do that to their parent. I guess it was a good sign that the Solloway family was fucked up even if it looked pretty on the surface.

[MBayGal]

Noah must be getting massive royalties from his book(s?), because no teacher in a charter school could afford to rent that place! 

[bilgistic]

A straight woman who cheats with another woman "isn't really cheating" in American culture because it's generally seen as a "hot" sexual fantasy to (and the subject of a lot of porn for) men. It's my opinion that having sex with someone other than one's monogamous partner is cheating, period. We've not seen that Vik and Helen have any other arrangement, so yes, they cheated on each other with the same person, which adds a level of grossness.

Noah's place is supposed to be kind of shitty. It's small and the decor is...interesting (license plates on the wall). I assume it came furnished. When the principal came over, she asked if he was renting, and when he said yes, she said, "Oh, thank God."

[preeya]

16 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

A straight woman who cheats with another woman "isn't really cheating" in American culture because it's generally seen as a "hot" sexual fantasy to (and the subject of a lot of porn for) men. It's my opinion that having sex with someone other than one's monogamous partner is cheating, period. We've not seen that Vik and Helen have any other arrangement, so yes, they cheated on each other with the same person, which adds a level of grossness.

Noah's place is supposed to be kind of shitty. It's small and the decor is...interesting (license plates on the wall). I assume it came furnished. When the principal came over, she asked if he was renting, and when he said yes, she said, "Oh, thank God."

 

16 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

It's my opinion that having sex with someone other than one's monogamous partner is cheating, period. We've not seen that Vik and Helen have any other arrangement, so yes, they cheated on each other with the same person, which adds a level of grossness.

 

Sort of like a dumbed down threesome.  A mini or altered ménage à trois.

Edited August 1, 2018 by preeya

[yourmomiseasy]

1 hour ago, bilgistic said:

Noah's place is supposed to be kind of shitty. It's small and the decor is...interesting (license plates on the wall). I assume it came furnished. When the principal came over, she asked if he was renting, and when he said yes, she said, "Oh, thank God."

It's such a classic old canyon home, it's almost cliched.  I laughed when I saw it.

[Lozu68]

2 hours ago, bilgistic said:

A straight woman who cheats with another woman "isn't really cheating" in American culture because it's generally seen as a "hot" sexual fantasy to (and the subject of a lot of porn for) men. It's my opinion that having sex with someone other than one's monogamous partner is cheating, period. We've not seen that Vik and Helen have any other arrangement, so yes, they cheated on each other with the same person, which adds a level of grossness.

Noah's place is supposed to be kind of shitty. It's small and the decor is...interesting (license plates on the wall). I assume it came furnished. When the principal came over, she asked if he was renting, and when he said yes, she said, "Oh, thank God."

Interesting point. I mean...the way the script was written, for Helen to chastise Sierra on sleeping with married men...when she had JUST done the same, with Sierra...either we are supposed to believe Helen didn’t consider her tryst with Sierra cheating...or the scenes were shot out of order and someone lost track of what events came just before? Strange. Will be interesting to see if Vik or Helen fesses up to the other (before Sierra spills the beans! What a sicko!)

Edited August 2, 2018 by Lozu68

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Noah must be getting massive royalties from his book(s?), because no teacher in a charter school could afford to rent that place! 

Well it did put a serious crimp in his proscuitto budget.

I've seen a lot of certainty about Vik and Helen NOT being married. I've seen an equal amount of certainty of them BEING married. Does anyone have conclusive proof one way or another? Neither seems to wear a ring but Helen didn't correct (the highly annoying) Cierra when she referred to Vik as Helen's husband. Anyone know? Anyone have thoughts on why the plot is intentionally vague on the matter (or isn't it and I've just missed the evidence)?

[preeya]

41 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Well it did put a serious crimp in his proscuitto budget.

I've seen a lot of certainty about Vik and Helen NOT being married. I've seen an equal amount of certainty of them BEING married. Does anyone have conclusive proof one way or another? Neither seems to wear a ring but Helen didn't correct (the highly annoying) Cierra when she referred to Vik as Helen's husband. Anyone know? Anyone have thoughts on why the plot is intentionally vague on the matter (or isn't it and I've just missed the evidence)?

5

She did say when referring to Noah, that he's "my first husband" not just saying he's my ex-husband. The implication of "my first husband" could be that there is a second husband. Just saying.

ETA:  Found this in a preview article of season 4 in the Washington Post:

"In Sunday’s premiere, we’ve skipped ahead a decent amount of time. Helen and Vic are married and living in a gorgeous hillside home in Los Angeles, with Helen’s two younger children. (The older two have been shipped off to wherever cable’s used-up trouble teens go.)"

 

Here's the link to the full article:  https://goo.gl/rxN5AD

Edited August 2, 2018 by preeya

[PreBabylonia]

6 hours ago, Razzberry said:

Loved Noah's patio.  Where's he living, Topanga?

 

4 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Noah must be getting massive royalties from his book(s?), because no teacher in a charter school could afford to rent that place! 

 

3 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Noah's place is supposed to be kind of shitty. It's small and the decor is...interesting (license plates on the wall). I assume it came furnished. When the principal came over, she asked if he was renting, and when he said yes, she said, "Oh, thank God."

I love that house, especially the patio! It reminds me of Giles place in Buffy. Sure the furnishings are strange but the bones are great. Made me think that Janelle is a bit of a snob and has really embraced having money. It's not as if I have any kind of impression of the house she lives in. Totally generic and forgettable.

This is the first episode that I have ever liked Helen. Until the very last scene she had with Noah.  She really needs to get over her ex-husband cheating on her over 15 or so years ago. I have heard some women stay bitter that long but if I am to feel any kind of empathy with her, that anger has to go. No wonder those horrible children are so messed up. Only the youngest daughter (Stacy?) is even vaguely civil. And Helen and her parents were a nightmare when they were married, so I don't blame him at all for looking elsewhere, although Allison was so damaged he should have looked elsewhere.

I tend to forget that each section is based on a character's point of view, but when Janelle looked to be having the best sex of her life, I realized this must be Noah's ego taking over again. I tend to be more fond of Noah than I should, since I really liked the actor in The Wire. Maura has been unlikable in pretty much everything I've seen her in, so I think that also might be affecting me. Anyway, I did like this one but all the criticisms have been on point, and made me realize how much I suspended my disbelief. I too wondered how and when Allison left, but I suppose we will get our answer next week.

Has anyone else had a problem liking other comments? So many good ones here today but Previously couldn't record my likes.

[CarpeFelis]

21 hours ago, chabelisaywow said:

Otter and the Kidney hunt, is a dumb story line.   I hope they find Allison in a tub of ice with hers missing. 

I’m kinda hoping the show ends with Allison actually drowning. And maybe taking Noah down with her.

[yourmomiseasy]

55 minutes ago, PreBabylonia said:

 

 

I love that house, especially the patio! It reminds me of Giles place in Buffy. Sure the furnishings are strange but the bones are great. Made me think that Janelle is a bit of a snob and has really embraced having money. It's not as if I have any kind of impression of the house she lives in. Totally generic and forgettable.

This is the first episode that I have ever liked Helen. Until the very last scene she had with Noah.  She really needs to get over her ex-husband cheating on her over 15 or so years ago. I have heard some women stay bitter that long but if I am to feel any kind of empathy with her, that anger has to go. No wonder those horrible children are so messed up. Only the youngest daughter (Stacy?) is even vaguely civil. And Helen and her parents were a nightmare when they were married, so I don't blame him at all for looking elsewhere, although Allison was so damaged he should have looked elsewhere.

I tend to forget that each section is based on a character's point of view, but when Janelle looked to be having the best sex of her life, I realized this must be Noah's ego taking over again. I tend to be more fond of Noah than I should, since I really liked the actor in The Wire. Maura has been unlikable in pretty much everything I've seen her in, so I think that also might be affecting me. Anyway, I did like this one but all the criticisms have been on point, and made me realize how much I suspended my disbelief. I too wondered how and when Allison left, but I suppose we will get our answer next week.

Has anyone else had a problem liking other comments? So many good ones here today but Previously couldn't record my likes.

Noah's house probably costs more than Jenelle's based on assumed neighborhoods, so I don't think it is her being snobby.

There's no way that Noah cheating on Helen with Alison was over 15 years ago based on the ages of Joanie, Stacy, and Trevor.

[Razzberry]

Alison being MIA is the worst mystery setup I've ever seen. Are we supposed to suspect she's being harvested for a kidney against her will?  Or has Ben taken her on a one-way boat ride?

[athousandclowns]

Am I the only one who thinks after Sierra goes on about how she would love to have Helen's life that she will get pregnant with Vic's baby?  Or both will be? 

The I don't want you to die scene with Helen and Vic was very moving for me. 

Because I stopped watching the season after Noah was Crazy out of the blue , I also forget that it's from different points of view.  I like Vic and because the timing of diagnosis is blurry he does look too healthy.  My guess is he is not going to make it. 

[Razzberry]

The actor playing Vik is really good, I almost cried.  I think it was such a relief to him that Helen finally accepted it and he could talk to her openly.

[Milburn Stone]

12 hours ago, Lozu68 said:

Interesting point. I mean...the way the script was written, for Helen to chastise Sierra on sleeping with married men...when she had JUST done the same, with Sierra...

 

I will confess--not proudly--that I am such a product of my culture that the logical inconsistency so many of you picked up on didn't dawn on me when I watched the episode. (Any more than it dawned on Helen.)

Don't know what value my observation has other than to say that while such inconsistencies ought not exist, they often do, unexamined.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Milburn Stone

[Elizzikra]

Quote

She really needs to get over her ex-husband cheating on her over 15 or so years ago. 

Definitely not 15 years ago. More like 5??? 

[cardigirl]

On 8/1/2018 at 6:36 AM, JenE4 said:

What the fuck with Helen lecturing Sierra about sleeping with married men immediately after SHE—a married woman or at least long-term cohabiting family—slept with Sierra?! “You know, it causes ripples throughout the whole family...” Yeah, no shit, so why’d you get it on with Sierra?! Do we ONLY blame the other woman now? Or was it simply because the show runners are fed up with people Tweeting and posting and whatnot about the theme song? “You know, it causes a RIPPLE like when someone SINKS back into the ocean. And that ECHOOOOOOOOOOO I created will outlast my last breath and affect Whitney forevermore because she’s going to outlive me. And she’ll fuck up her kids’ lives, and they’ll fuck up their kids’ lives... But, you know, that avalanche I created buried a man I never knew, and when he died his widowed bride met your daddy and they made you...” So, it turns out the stars of this show really aren’t Alison and Noah—because they only have one thing to do and that’s be the way that they are (ie, horny) and sink back into the ocean—but all of these other people who are impacted by their affairs. So, let’s give a shout out to the real heroes of the show: Anton’s dad, Furkat, the fiancée of Noah’s longtime friend that Helen slept with...

Oh, yeah, and Alison has disappeared. I’m just going to throw this out there... Has anyone checked Helen and Vic’s couch? Helen was so busy running off to get freaky in a yurt with some crystals and Noah was distracted trying to give ANY kid who would give him the time of day driving lessons, that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to flash to Alison waking up on the couch—-helloooo? Is anyone home??? And then she causes an avalanche with that house perched on the precipice.

4

I think Helen was replying to Sierra's lament about how sleeping with married men made her depressed and didn't get her what she wanted, which was a life similar to Helen's. Helen was pointing out that sleeping with married men involves not just the men but all of their histories with their wives as well and their kids.  I didn't take it as a lecture, more as some truth giving. 

[Lozu68]

14 hours ago, preeya said:

She did say when referring to Noah, that he's "my first husband" not just saying he's my ex-husband. The implication of "my first husband" could be that there is a second husband. Just saying.

ETA:  Found this in a preview article of season 4 in the Washington Post:

"In Sunday’s premiere, we’ve skipped ahead a decent amount of time. Helen and Vic are married and living in a gorgeous hillside home in Los Angeles, with Helen’s two younger children. (The older two have been shipped off to wherever cable’s used-up trouble teens go.)"

 

Here's the link to the full article:  https://goo.gl/rxN5AD

I searched back Sarah Treem’scrweets and found this

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 7:23 PM, Elizzikra said:

Alison left Joanie with Athena and I assume that she stays with Luisa when it's Cole's time with her. Either Luisa or Athena (or both) could have noticed that Alison is missing and notified Cole.

I thought he actually went to Princeton, where he felt totally unprepared because, despite being smart and getting good grades, his life experience was so totally different from that of his peers that he started developing feelings of self hatred and inadequacy (Anton's mom said something about how Anton's father thought Princeton would make him "hate his own skin.")

Nicole Kidman.

That's a valid reason, but in-state schools don't protect you from that.  It would have been smarter to have him say he prefers HBCUs.

4 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Definitely not 15 years ago. More like 5??? 

The affair happened a year plus before Joanie was born.  

[PreBabylonia]

4 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Definitely not 15 years ago. More like 5??? 

I based that on thinking that Joanie is about 10 but seeing a screenshot of them together, I think I'd revise it to about 6. I don't think it's ever been clear how much time has passed (and I checked a few sources but it doesn't look like the time frame is laid out anywhere), but allowing about a year after the first affair started that Allison became pregnant, I think I would change my estimate to roughly 8-10 years. Still too long to mope after Noah, especially when she has the far superior Vik. I don't think Helen ever seemed happy with Noah and she certainly didn't make him happy. It looked like she chose him over her more conventional suitors just to piss off her parents. Time to move on emotionally, not only for herself but to help her children come to peace with it.  Especially since she is now 48. (Nice to get some clarity at least on her age). The writing does leave a lot of the details murky.

[cardigirl]

14 hours ago, PreBabylonia said:

I based that on thinking that Joanie is about 10 but seeing a screenshot of them together, I think I'd revise it to about 6. I don't think it's ever been clear how much time has passed (and I checked a few sources but it doesn't look like the time frame is laid out anywhere), but allowing about a year after the first affair started that Allison became pregnant, I think I would change my estimate to roughly 8-10 years. Still too long to mope after Noah, especially when she has the far superior Vik. I don't think Helen ever seemed happy with Noah and she certainly didn't make him happy. It looked like she chose him over her more conventional suitors just to piss off her parents. Time to move on emotionally, not only for herself but to help her children come to peace with it.  Especially since she is now 48. (Nice to get some clarity at least on her age). The writing does leave a lot of the details murky.

 

I beg to differ on that. I think the writers tried to establish that the marriage was functioning on a high level. Yes, they had four kids, yes, they had issues about her parents, but they seemed to be genuinely affectionate with each other. I loved the scene this season when Alison was brought to Helen and Vic's house and Noah was talking about how Helen used to have such disdain for the West Coast. Alison kept watching them, as they telegraphed their old history between each other. It was a beautifully played scene, Noah teasing Helen, and Helen demurring back to him, and Alison realizing that she was not a part of that. She was part of something --- different. 

It takes a long time to let go of something that was such a big part of one's life. 20+ years and 4 kids. Yes, Helen has Vic, who is superior in some ways, perhaps many ways, but she may never get the chance to truly get over Noah with Vic, because the time she has with Vic will be short. 

And speaking from personal experience, while you may move on to another person, that history remains with you. Hopefully, you retain the good while letting go of the bad. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by cardigirl

[yourmomiseasy]

12 hours ago, PreBabylonia said:

I based that on thinking that Joanie is about 10 but seeing a screenshot of them together, I think I'd revise it to about 6. I don't think it's ever been clear how much time has passed (and I checked a few sources but it doesn't look like the time frame is laid out anywhere), but allowing about a year after the first affair started that Allison became pregnant, I think I would change my estimate to roughly 8-10 years. Still too long to mope after Noah, especially when she has the far superior Vik. I don't think Helen ever seemed happy with Noah and she certainly didn't make him happy. It looked like she chose him over her more conventional suitors just to piss off her parents. Time to move on emotionally, not only for herself but to help her children come to peace with it.  Especially since she is now 48. (Nice to get some clarity at least on her age). The writing does leave a lot of the details murky.

I think 8-10 is a little long too.  Trevor is only 14 or 15 -- I think 14 since he said he wouldn't be able to take driving lessons for a year and you can take them at 15.  He seemed older than 5 at the beginning of the series.  I think Joanie is probably only about 5 or 6 right now.  Another clue is the older asshole son (I forget his name) is still in college and he was probably around 14 or 15 when the series started.  It's probably been about 6 years.  

[JenE4]

2 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I think 8-10 is a little long too.  Trevor is only 14 or 15 -- I think 14 since he said he wouldn't be able to take driving lessons for a year and you can take them at 15.  He seemed older than 5 at the beginning of the series.  I think Joanie is probably only about 5 or 6 right now.  Another clue is the older asshole son (I forget his name) is still in college and he was probably around 14 or 15 when the series started.  It's probably been about 6 years.  

I agree on the ages of the kids. But wasnt Noah in jail for 5 years? He had an affair, wrote a book about it, he divorced Helen, he married Allison, they had some time apart while he was writing and she was working at the lobster roll, his book becomes a best seller, they get a swanky apartment, Joanie is gestated and born, he was being investigated for a while, he went on trial, was in jail for 5 years, got a job at Livingston University, stabbed/mental breakdown/recovery, went to France, came back, moved to California and starts teaching school again... I may be wrong on how long he was in jail, but IF that alone was 5 years then, yeah, everything else was probably another 5 years—despite the fact that they didn’t age the kids to match up.

[Lozu68]

5 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I think 8-10 is a little long too.  Trevor is only 14 or 15 -- I think 14 since he said he wouldn't be able to take driving lessons for a year and you can take them at 15.  He seemed older than 5 at the beginning of the series.  I think Joanie is probably only about 5 or 6 right now.  Another clue is the older asshole son (I forget his name) is still in college and he was probably around 14 or 15 when the series started.  It's probably been about 6 years.  

When they begin divorce proceedings, Trevor was 10, Stacey was 7 (Noah says this to Nina when he takes them after Helen’s DUI.) I think the writers fudged the timeline a bit here!

Edited August 3, 2018 by Lozu68

[Lozu68]

2 hours ago, JenE4 said:

I agree on the ages of the kids. But wasnt Noah in jail for 5 years? He had an affair, wrote a book about it, he divorced Helen, he married Allison, they had some time apart while he was writing and she was working at the lobster roll, his book becomes a best seller, they get a swanky apartment, Joanie is gestated and born, he was being investigated for a while, he went on trial, was in jail for 5 years, got a job at Livingston University, stabbed/mental breakdown/recovery, went to France, came back, moved to California and starts teaching school again... I may be wrong on how long he was in jail, but IF that alone was 5 years then, yeah, everything else was probably another 5 years—despite the fact that they didn’t age the kids to match up.

He was in jail for 3 years. There should be about a 7 year time span from S1-S4, but the writers seemed to have shaved it down a bit in places. Joanie is now 6, but Trevor, who was 10 before Joanie was conceived...is not quite 15? Certain things don’t match up! I hate that!?

[Pallas]

Trevor said he couldn't take Driver's Ed -- not driving lessons -- until the following (school) year,  and that Vic (had been) going to give him lessons over the upcoming summer. He seems to be the right age: 16/17. 

[Blakeston]

22 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I think Helen was replying to Sierra's lament about how sleeping with married men made her depressed and didn't get her what she wanted, which was a life similar to Helen's. Helen was pointing out that sleeping with married men involves not just the men but all of their histories with their wives as well and their kids.  I didn't take it as a lecture, more as some truth giving. 

Helen said, "When you sleep with someone's husband, it's not just a moment, it's years of his life, and hers, and the promise they made to each other, and their kids. It's everything, and you're just shitting all over it."

I think that's going further than just saying, "You won't get what you want from sleeping with a married man." She was condemning it for being morally wrong.

And even though she apparently isn't married to Vik, that's still pretty damn hypocritical. They've been together longer than a lot of married couples, and he's a parental figure to her kids.

[NutMeg]

It made total sense to me that Helen would rush back to Vik after the tomb-like experience of the sensory deprivation tank. I like that they then had their most heartfelt conversation since the verdict fell.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Another clue is the older asshole son (I forget his name) is still in college and he was probably around 14 or 15 when the series started. 

Yeah but Martin got tossed out of more than one high school so I'm guessing it took him more than 4 years to finish.

[PreBabylonia]

On 2018-08-02 at 2:44 PM, cardigirl said:

I beg to differ on that. I think the writers tried to establish that the marriage was functioning on a high level. Yes, they had four kids, yes, they had issues about her parents, but they seemed to be genuinely affectionate with each other. I loved the scene this season when Alison was brought to Helen and Vic's house and Noah was talking about how Helen used to have such disdain for the West Coast. Alison kept watching them, as they telegraphed their old history between each other. It was a beautifully played scene, Noah teasing Helen, and Helen demurring back to him, and Alison realizing that she was not a part of that. She was part of something --- different. 

It takes a long time to let go of something that was such a big part of one's life. 20+ years and 4 kids. Yes, Helen has Vic, who is superior in some ways, perhaps many ways, but she may never get the chance to truly get over Noah with Vic, because the time she has with Vic will be short. 

And speaking from personal experience, while you may move on to another person, that history remains with you. Hopefully, you retain the good while letting go of the bad. 

Really? I just never saw that with them. I saw a woman constantly belittling her husband, putting her husband in situations that he had to endure her snooty entitled parents that constantly put him down, and their children treated their father with the same disrespect that they saw modelled in front of them. Far from calling their children on it, Helen seemed to encourage it. Noah is/was no saint, he comes across as a Peter Pan type (a man-boy that never grew up), but learning of his family situation and his desire to escape from it, I feel a little bit of sympathy. I can definitely see why he would want an affair as a fun escape but boy, did he pick the wrong woman to have sexy times with! Allison was far too complicated for him to deal with, although she did serve as the muse for his bestselling book. Anyway, I think that marriage had problems from day one and the affair with Allison didn't break that marriage, she was just a convenient excuse.

I didn't see that scene between Helen and Noah years later as very affectionate or gentle teasing either. Good times! Yep, Helen looking down on West Coaster - vintage Helen. She looks down on everybody. For no good reason I can think of, since Helen hasn't accomplished one thing in her life. She has raised three hideous children and will probably wreck the youngest girl too. I have no idea why she never had any job ever in her life. Doesn't she have any ambitions deep down somewhere? Everyone complains about Alison but she's been a nurse, a waitress, a drug runner, a restaurant manager/co-owner (I think she managed it for awhile, anyway) and was until recently, a peer counsellor. She was also a great asset to Noah with his book launch and handled the schmoozing expertly, as far as I can recall. That girl has a great work ethic. Maybe not the best at mothering but she has been battling a form of PTSD since we've met her, and she doesn't give up. So I found it very ironic that Helen - the woman that has accomplished jack squat in her lifetime - is giving Alison advice and trying to come across as some kind of life expert.

So I don't give Helen credit for staying in a marriage that may have looked good on the outside but was incredibly empty. I too went thru a marriage that went belly up (other women involved) but I didn't hold in the anger and use my children as a tool to hurt their father. If you care about your children, it makes sense to me that you try to keep both parents in their life and behave civilly. (Exceptions of course for abuse). I haven't forgotten but I have forgiven. It was better for the kids that way and it was better for me. And my ex-husband. I have been told that we are kind of rare, that so many former couples treat the other party like an enemy and the poor children have to deal with it.  Those are the kind of people that have to be kept separate when their children get married, that create chaos years or even decades later. So I get why Helen is created that way, she is definitely representing a particular demographic, but it keeps me from ever relating to her sympathetically. 

12 hours ago, JenE4 said:

I agree on the ages of the kids. But wasnt Noah in jail for 5 years? He had an affair, wrote a book about it, he divorced Helen, he married Allison, they had some time apart while he was writing and she was working at the lobster roll, his book becomes a best seller, they get a swanky apartment, Joanie is gestated and born, he was being investigated for a while, he went on trial, was in jail for 5 years, got a job at Livingston University, stabbed/mental breakdown/recovery, went to France, came back, moved to California and starts teaching school again... I may be wrong on how long he was in jail, but IF that alone was 5 years then, yeah, everything else was probably another 5 years—despite the fact that they didn’t age the kids to match up.

 

10 hours ago, Lozu68 said:

When they begin divorce proceedings, Trevor was 10, Stacey was 7 (Noah says this to Nina when he takes them after Helen’s DUI.) I think the writers fudged the timeline a bit here!

 

10 hours ago, Lozu68 said:

He was in jail for 3 years. There should be about a 7 year time span from S1-S4, but the writers seemed to have shaved it down a bit in places. Joanie is now 6, but Trevor, who was 10 before Joanie was conceived...is not quite 15? Certain things don’t match up! I hate that!?

You just know that somebody, somewhere has created a chart and a Carrie (Homeland) type of timeline. Probably not that important but the writers really should have set up some kind of show bible to follow and given us timeline hints, like New Year's Eve parties. I think you are right though, it doesn't match up and it is annoying!

9 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Helen said, "When you sleep with someone's husband, it's not just a moment, it's years of his life, and hers, and the promise they made to each other, and their kids. It's everything, and you're just shitting all over it."

I think that's going further than just saying, "You won't get what you want from sleeping with a married man." She was condemning it for being morally wrong.

And even though she apparently isn't married to Vik, that's still pretty damn hypocritical. They've been together longer than a lot of married couples, and he's a parental figure to her kids.

Yeah, I don't know if Helen is dense or just kind of a sociopath. She blunders over everyone's feelings and never stops to think that something may be her fault. I actually liked her for the first time in this episode so maybe she has reached some sort of epiphany. 

[yourmomiseasy]

14 hours ago, Lozu68 said:

When they begin divorce proceedings, Trevor was 10, Stacey was 7 (Noah says this to Nina when he takes them after Helen’s DUI.) I think the writers fudged the timeline a bit here!

 

Thank you for finding this info.  I knew at one point ages were probably given, but there was no way I was going back to look -- I don't hate myself that much.

14 hours ago, Lozu68 said:

He was in jail for 3 years. There should be about a 7 year time span from S1-S4, but the writers seemed to have shaved it down a bit in places. Joanie is now 6, but Trevor, who was 10 before Joanie was conceived...is not quite 15? Certain things don’t match up! I hate that!?

It's super annoying when things don't match up.  Especially when specific timeline info is given.  I realize part of it is that the child actors can only play certain range of ages, but still.

13 hours ago, Pallas said:

Trevor said he couldn't take Driver's Ed -- not driving lessons -- until the following (school) year,  and that Vic (had been) going to give him lessons over the upcoming summer. He seems to be the right age: 16/17. 

We don't really have in school driver education and driver training in California.  Even if it was common these days, there's no way one of the parental figures involved in Trevor's life wouldn't pony up the ~$250-500 for private.  Even when it was common to have driver ed in school, it was pretty common to do private if you could afford it so you could get your license sooner since privates are on your schedule and not dragged out over a semester or quarter, and even 20 years ago in school driver training was being offered less and less due to liability, so you had to do private for that.  What usually happens now that it isn't common in school is that the kids that can afford it take private, those that can't just wait until they are 18 to get a license because then it isn't required (for what it's worth, you can do the ed part online for like $29, but training is probably going to run at least $225).  To be honest, it's more and more common to wait until you are 18 to get a license anyway due to all of the restrictions on a minor license and kids are just weird these days -- I don't get it, I was in line at the DMV with all my ducks in a row as soon as I was 15 1/2, but back then there weren't provisions on a minor license.  Private driving school is still called driver ed and driver training officially.  Driver ed is the classroom portion and driver training is the behind the wheel portion as defined by the DMV.   Another fun bit of trivia is that in California it is a driver license, not a driver's license (there's no 's on ed or training either).  I'm not sure if the nomenclature is the same in other states.  I'm always very careful to call it a driver license and not a driver's license though and have been since I was 15 and saw that's what it's called just because the fact that it sounds wrong but is actually correct amuses me.  (My niece just got her driver license, so this is a topic that has been discussed in my family quite a bit over the last year)

2 hours ago, PreBabylonia said:

You just know that somebody, somewhere has created a chart and a Carrie (Homeland) type of timeline. Probably not that important but the writers really should have set up some kind of show bible to follow and given us timeline hints, like New Year's Eve parties. I think you are right though, it doesn't match up and it is annoying!

. 

I wish they would because I think collectively we've probably put more thought into it than the writers.

Edited August 4, 2018 by yourmomiseasy

[PreBabylonia]

11 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

What usually happens now that it isn't common in school is that the kids that can afford it take private, those that can't just wait until they are 18 to get a license because then it isn't required (for what it's worth, you can do the ed part online for like $29, but training is probably going to run at least $225).  To be honest, it's more and more common to wait until you are 18 to get a license anyway due to all of the restrictions on a minor license and kids are just weird these days -- I don't get it, I was in line at the DMV with all my ducks in a row as soon as I was 15 1/2, but back then there weren't provisions on a minor license.  Private driving school is still called driver ed and driver training officially.  Driver ed is the classroom portion and driver training is the behind the wheel portion as defined by the DMV.   

I wish they would because I think collectively we've probably put more thought into it than the writers.

In Canada (or at least my province), we get a discount on our insurance if we've taken drivers education. That's one of the reasons why we wanted our boys to take it. Does it work like that in California?

Yeah, not only are some of these posters dead on with the details, but they often come up with far more interesting plotlines and character developments. Many of them would be fantastic writers! Maybe Netflix should be trolling PreviouslyTV to grab showrunners, I heard (on South Park) that they'll greenlight just about anything!

[yourmomiseasy]

I think adults can get a discount is they voluntarily take it, but for under 18s it is required to take it.

[cardigirl]

I think it is morally wrong to start a relationship with someone who is married, but I’m old. And old fashioned. Much better to break things off first before involving others, but people rarely do that. When Noah began his relationship with Alison, he wasn’t looking to end his marriage. He and Helen were not on the cusp of divorce. He even told the detective in season one that he liked being married. But for whatever reason, he chose to blow it all up. 

Helen and Noah’s  marriage was not perfect but it wasn’t horrible either.  And after the divorce, he then married his ‘muse,’ and immediately started wishing he could be free of that relationship. He told his therapist that he wished he could go to Europe and fuck every woman he met. But he was going to try to be ‘good.’ Why? 

I’ve enjoyed watching the show for the most part, except for Helen and Noah’s children. Those are some of the most obnoxious kids ever to be found on tv. Except for the youngest daughter. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by cardigirl

[izabella]

On 8/3/2018 at 6:50 PM, PreBabylonia said:

She looks down on everybody. For no good reason I can think of, since Helen hasn't accomplished one thing in her life. She has raised three hideous children and will probably wreck the youngest girl too. I have no idea why she never had any job ever in her life. Doesn't she have any ambitions deep down somewhere?

Helen owned and managed a store in Brooklyn, a great store which she loved, as she told the moon crystal women.

[Pike Ludwell]

A friend tells me that weed is so much stronger these days than way back when, that one or two tokes is enough to get you pretty zapped. Yet these people were smoking it like cigarette fiends.

[yourmomiseasy]

Not to mention driving afterward.  I think that's true to life though because I heard something on the radio recently about it becoming a big problem.

[DiabLOL]

Helen started that day with weed! Kept going in the retreat along with what looked like tons of wine and more weed that may have been laced then drove home!

[Elizzikra]

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 I have no idea why she never had any job ever in her life.

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Helen owned and managed a store in Brooklyn, a great store which she loved, as she told the moon crystal women.

She also worked with someone in real estate didn't she? Staging houses for sale in Season 2? Or is that just my imagination?

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Not to mention driving afterward.  I think that's true to life though because I heard something on the radio recently about it becoming a big problem.

 

Helen has a long and rich history of driving impaired. Just ask Scotty Lockhart.

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She looks down on everybody. For no good reason I can think of, since Helen hasn't accomplished one thing in her life.

I don't see her as looking down on everybody and she is educated. She graduated from Williams. So it's not entirely fair to say that she hasn't accomplished one thing in her life. If I had the wealth to stay home with four kids (if I had them) I would too. I do think the first two are monstrous and the third is well on his way but that's at least half Noah's fault. The youngest is still a sweetheart - I hold out hope. And for the record, really nice, loving, smart, kind parents can also end up with asshole children so it's not all the result of poor parenting.

[Mindthinkr]

45 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Helen has a long and rich history of driving impaired. Just ask Scotty Lockhart.

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Bingo! 

[Emme]

On 7/29/2018 at 10:11 PM, chick binewski said:

I'm sorry there are only 3 more episodes left this season. Even though Sierra was as irritating as Furcat this epsiode. 

O'Hare didn't hang me up as much as that house in the middle of Joshua Tree National Park. How did they walk there? 

Thank you! They just ambled out of the desert ? of Joshua Tree, and found themselves in a lush and verdant back yard.

On 7/30/2018 at 3:21 AM, scrb said:

I thought the sensory deprivation tank was going to make Helen realize that Sierra was talking about screwing Vik.

But instead, the epiphany she got was to run to Vik and tell him not to die?

Sierra is a bomb thrower, indiscriminately taking out both the husband and the wife.

 

I don't buy Anton's father's objection to Princeton.  If Anton got accepted with a full ride, I find it very hard to believe he'd object to his son going there.  Was it all a setup so that Noah and Anton would do this trip and then it turns into a road trip with Cole to look for Alison?

Seems like they're trying to force a mystery element into the season, as if they don't want to be seen as just a soap opera about all these affairs.  These people already dealt with murder or involuntary manslaughter.  

As for Noah and the principal, it's a wonder they waited until almost the end of the season.  Now Anton is starting to like Noah, listening to his audio book and everything.  But does he know Noah and his moms are a thing?  He'd have to be blind not to see it.  

My take was sensory deprivation tank = Vik’s coffin underground 

[Emme]

On 7/30/2018 at 3:17 PM, Giant Misfit said:

Yet another plot point in this show which has me all:

The other thing I thought was interesting (inasmuch as anything interests me on this show) was Sierra telling Helen that her mother wrote a cookbook and that a copy was on the counter. Helen found no such cookbook written by Sierra's mother. And then whatever babble came out of Sierra's mouth next, Helen told her everything she had said was, in effect, not true at all. So, Helen knows she's dealing with a known idiot/bullshitter and yet ditches her daily misery (because her car has no gas and she forgot to sign one of the kid's notes...oh, poor you, Helen!) to drive out to the desert in VIk's Porsche to model high-end hippie clothes in the desert with dipshit Sierra and then have some sexy times with her later on? God. You know what would really help you, Helen? A 9-5 desk job. 

The whole thing with Helen and the cookbook is part of her continued effort to find out who Sierra’s celebrity mother is. So, I saw cookbooks by Susan Sarandon and Michelle Pfeiffer - couldn’t make out the other celeb authors. The continuing joke is that Helen is dying to know without outright asking, and Sierra hasn’t given it up. One of those cookbooks was authored by Sierra’s mother.

[AnnaCody]

On 8/5/2018 at 8:01 PM, Elizzikra said:

Helen has a long and rich history of driving impaired. Just ask Scotty Lockhart.

Didn't Allison push Scotty into the road? 

[Elizzikra]

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Helen has a long and rich history of driving impaired. Just ask Scotty Lockhart.

 

Didn't Allison push Scotty into the road? 

 

Allison shoved Scotty away when he was assaulting her. He landed in the road - in front of the car Helen was driving while impaired.