Season One Talk: The Umbrella Academy

[Cthulhudrew]

6 hours ago, Enigma X said:

.The whole Leonard character just bugged. At one point, I was hoping he was a time-traveling version of Five who was trying to get Vanya to realize her power and stop the Apocalypse.

I thought he was a future Number Five early on as well; his voice and mannerisms seemed reminiscent of Five, and it seemed like (initially) there was a connection between Five and Vanya that was missing among the other siblings. I thought maybe there was going to develop a romance between them based on that.

Once it was clear that wasn't the case, I had a hard time with Leonard's character. Aside from the skeeviness of his manipultions and the very thin motive behind it, there was a definite lack of chemistry between him and Ellen Page's Vanya. Not to mention- as others have noted- the cliched story that turned an otherwise interesting character (Vanya) into a plot device and took away any real agency from her.

That was actually the biggest shortcoming here for me- both Vanya and Allison (the main female characters)- seemed to lack depth, and served mostly as a foil for other elements of the plot. I liked Allison a lot, and she definitely was more proactive than Vanya, but I never really got much of a feel for her character. Even in the episode that was (ostensibly) about her, we were never quite given a real glimpse of how her powers and Greeves' upbringing molded her. We were told she used her powers her whole life to get the things she wanted, but the only instance we see of that is with her daughter (and some admittedly haunting voiceovers of other cases she used it with her daughter), but never how she used it in other aspects of her life. On the contrary, from the minute she came onscreen, Allison was always the most nurturing, self-sacrificing one of the group. So I'd have liked to see that contrast- perhaps in flashbacks. 

I will say, having read the comics after watching this, that the tv show elevates the source material greatly (not unlike S1 and 2 of The Walking Dead; beyond which the quality of that show deteriorated for me as it started to be molded to match the comics.)

[Garden Wafers]

6 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

She knew what she was doing by the second nanny.. I don't remember Luther killing anyone.. Yeah Klaus turned to drugs.. But partly to keep the ghosts away.. Five was just full of hubris and ended up in the future.. We don't know much about Allison other than her using her power on her kid.. Vanya came out the box a destroyer.. Then the years of resentment piled on.. 

I can understand Hargreeve's initial plan to suppress Vanya's powers, but I think he was completely misguided from that point on. It'd be like giving a loaded gun to a 4-year-old, seeing them accidentally kill someone at that young age, and then declaring they are completely out of control and can never learn gun safety ever again. Vanya simply wasn't mature enough to control her powers at that young age. He would have been better served preparing her psychologically over the years; an emotionally stable teenager or young adult might've had more success. Instead, he decided to gaslight her at every opportunity. 

And honestly, Vanya wasn't the only one unprepared to deal with her powers at such a young age. Number 5 impulsively decides to time travel at the age of 13 and ends up spending the next four decades wandering an apocalyptic wasteland. Allison recklessly uses her powers throughout her life (e.g. telling someone that they love her, using it to advance her career) and only now comes to terms with the ethics of mind control as a 30-year-old mother who's lost custody of her daughter because of those powers. Klaus uses drugs to mitigate the trauma of seeing ghosts all the time and is only gaining some control due to the support of his brothers. Diego learns how to kill people as a youngster and unsurprisingly turns into a vigilante. 

[tennisgurl]

*Sigh* I am a few episodes in, and I am trying to avoid looking at the comments, but from what I have seen so far...what did Reginald think was going to happen here, exactly? He would abuse and neglect his superpowered kids, denying them any kind of normal childhood, heaping on endless traumas and scaring them for life, and then be like "how did my test subjects end up struggling so much to work together as adults?!?"

Edited February 18, 2019 by tennisgurl

[lynny]

I loved this show so hard. It was like someone at Netflix decided to make a show specifically for me. 

[pootlus]

I really liked this show, the pieces came together really well.  Yes, it was screamingly obvious that 1) Leonard was a villain, 2) Vanya had secret powers and 3) Vanya was going to be responsible for the apocalypse in some way, but the whole thing was done so well I didn't care.  The music was fab, the casting was inspired, and I really need to know how they made Pogo.

There were a few things that bugged - the Hazel/Cha-Cha thing got annoying towards the end, Allison's writing speed seemed to be really slow at times and unfeasibly rapid at others, Vanya was IMO too unsympathetic (or maybe Allison was too sympathetic in their confrontations) and the show was a little too "Yah, wait till next year" in setting things up.

But these are small quibbles.  I hope there's a second season - so many questions to answer, like how do they stop the apocalypse, where (or when) did Hazel and Donut Lady *poof* to, who are the guys in armour and red goggles, and what about all the other children who were born on the same day?

Given that they seemed to be resetting to children, this presumably means they're going back in time to fix Vanya. Hopefully it means more Pogo and 'Mom'/Grace.

[ChocButterfly]

19 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Yes, Vanya is partly to blame along with her siblings, however I think the father is the main person to blame. He suppressed her powers and with that on top of her anger of being eluded her whole life, that was bound to end in an explosion. Plus if he had showed an ounce of caring maybe he could've got her to not kill her nannies. All he kept doing was replacing them instead of telling her it was wrong. She was what 4 years old? It doesn't seem like he tried very hard to help her learn to control her darker impulses. 

This. I feel people are being too hard on Vanya and not hard enough on Reginald. The guy wasn't only a cold and distant father, he was downright abusive. Next to him, Michael Jackson's dad looks like a good father. What he did to Klaus and Vanya specially, was horrible! Heck, he wouldn't even address his children by their names! In fact, they didn't explain it, but I think the children gave themselves those names when they  grew up, that's why Five has no name. And then he thinks they're going to save the world when they grow up? No thanks to you, asshole!

On 2/17/2019 at 9:33 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for Vanya. She murdered three nannies. The dad may have been a dick, but Vanya obviously was out of control at an early age.

She was 4!! She didn't "murdered" 3 nannies, she didn't know what killing was. She just knew she didn't want her oatmeal. If indeed the nannies were dying, then Reginald is truly a monster, since all he did was get another nanny to get killed before he finally tried with a robot. He didn't even care that the nannies were dying. No talking to her and explaining what the consequences of her actions were, no parenting at all. How did he pretend she'd learn anything? The only thing he tried was attempt to train her like a professional athlete or a dog. Also, the kid was a toddler, let her NOT eat her oatmeal if she hated it that much and find something else that she prefered. That's not the hill you want to die on. But nope, he'd rather have 3 employees killed before not having one of his kids do exactly what he wanted them to do.

17 hours ago, Garden Wafers said:

I can understand Hargreeve's initial plan to suppress Vanya's powers, but I think he was completely misguided from that point on. It'd be like giving a loaded gun to a 4-year-old, seeing them accidentally kill someone at that young age, and then declaring they are completely out of control and can never learn gun safety ever again. Vanya simply wasn't mature enough to control her powers at that young age. He would have been better served preparing her psychologically over the years; an emotionally stable teenager or young adult might've had more success. Instead, he decided to gaslight her at every opportunity. 

Exactly, he just decided to lock her up and when he found he could just sedate her, what does he do? Mistreat, ignore and psychologically abuse the poor child. Sure, you have a super powerful kid who you're afraid of and your solution is to raise them with as much resentment as possible, so one day they finally snap. That's smart.... Also, no matter how many pills he made her take, that plan was stupid, cause if she's that powerful (she blew up the fucking moon, yo!!!) one day she was bound to explode anyway. Heck, she could have just forgotten to take the pills or lose them and all Hell would break loose, since she couldn't control her powers and didn't even know the extension of them thanks to stupid Reginald. Making her believe she didn't have any powers was one thing, and may not have been the smartest decision, but I could understand that. But he not only did that, he belittled her and made her feel like shit every day of her life. He  made her feel jealous of his powerful siblings. He made her feel like an outsider. He made her feel unimportant. He made her YEARN for powers. It's like he purposely wanted her to blow up one day.

And speaking of stupid....Luther is the one who  actually caused the Apocalipse. Vanya felt horrible about what she did to Alyson, they could have worked together to help her control her powers. Maybe she would have continued taking the pills voluntarily if she knew she couldn't control them. But nope, he knows his sister is so powerful that she could blow up and cause the END OF THE WORLD, and what does he do? He makes sure to piss off said super powerful human to the point where she actually blows up. What did he think was going to happen when he locked her up in that horrible room (did you see the knives on the walls?) to wither and die?

And the siblings may not have been guilty for what Reginald did, but I can see why Vanya would resent them as well, and not just be jealous of their powers. They also belittled her at every opportunity as we saw in the last episode. We actually saw it since episode 1. They continuously ignore her, like she's not part of the family. They never told her anything and made decisions without her. Diego is downright nasty with her, Alyson was also very cruel to her on several ocassions, and she's supposed to be the one closer to her. Luther pretty much ignored her. I don't know, if you see one of your siblings being mistreated even much more than you are, you kind of try to reach out to them.

Also, I liked Pogo.... until we discovered he was covering all the fucked up things Reginald did. I'm not going to blame him for not doing anything about it, after all, he was just a victim as well. But after Reginald's death, he continued to keep secrets, when the knowledge of said secrets could have saved a lot of time and made things easier for the siblings. He also continued to justified and defend Reginald for all the horrible things he did. I suspect that's some Stockholm Syndrome on his part. But yeah, I'm not that sad he's dead, turns out he was kind of useless at the end. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by ChocButterfly

[shrewd.buddha]

After the first two episodes:
The photography and set designs were impressive. It is not often that a series uses so much well known pop music. 
The story? ...not nearly as impressive. Most of the situations seemed odd for the sake of being odd. The momentum and interest was the result of being thrown into situations and trying to figure the who's, why's, and how's. Jumping between four or more story lines seemed like an easy way to keep things moving without much explanation.  

The super powers premise seems to be an immediate point of either being on-board or not.  But Netflix action-hero shows have a tendency to do more telling than showing, so one starts to wonder if the main action will be in the first and last episodes.

After two episodes,  I could take it or leave it. It is an semi-interesting curiosity that I am not expecting to make a lot of sense - especially with time travel being a central element of the story.  It feels like a series that could go on and on and on - with repeated scenes of two characters talking in well decorated rooms, broken up by the occasional flashback, flash forward, and a few moments of action/violence. 
The gist of the show is starting to feel like a 12 Monkeys rehash. 

It is difficult to get invested in characters whose main purpose is to be weird:
Is there any point of the children wearing masks? Children wearing easily identifiable school uniforms, who are the adopted children of a famous billionaire and who have been celebrities since birth? 
This society took no issue with masked adolescent children stopping a bank robbery with violent killing? 
Number 5 is trying to save the world - - but he is not giving anyone any information and not recruiting any help. Yet we have plenty of time for talking about personal/childhood issues. 
None of the characters show any interest in investigating what caused their 1-day births or the other 36 children born on the same day? Maybe that type of development is being saved for season eight .. or one-hundred and eight.. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by shrewd.buddha

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, ChocButterfly said:

In fact, they didn't explain it, but I think the children gave themselves those names when they  grew up, that's why Five has no name.

They said the mother gave the names. I'm assuming after Five disappeared since he didn't get one.  So even a robot knew that they needed real names. 

[pinkglove]

A quick question:

Why didn't Hazel and his girlfriend die? It looked like they were about to time travel too. Had Hazel stolen something that allowed them to do it from The Handler? I missed that.

[Mikay]

3 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

And the siblings may not have been guilty for what Reginald did, but I can see why Vanya would resent them as well, and not just be jealous of their powers. They also belittled her at every opportunity as we saw in the last episode. We actually saw it since episode 1. They continuosly ignore her, like she's not part of the family. They never told her anything and made decisions wihtout her. Diego is downright nasty with her, Alyson was also very cruel to her on several ocassions, and she's suposed to be the one closer to her. Luther pretty much ignored her. I don't know, if you see one of your siblings being mistreated even much more than you are, you kind of try to reach out to them.

I disagree with this.  More than anything Vanya wanted the attention and love of her father and siblings and because she got neither, she grew to resent them as adults.   However, I think it's important to recognize that Vanya wasn't the only child abused by Reginald. All of Vanya's siblings were abused and have not overcome that abuse in the present day. Some of the more outwardly functional siblings are still intensely dysfunctional people. Allison seems pretty well-adjusted until you remember that she built her life on lies and make believe, conning her way through her career, her love life, and even parenting her own daughter. Luther is so devoted to his father that he sublimated his own desires and never got any life experience; he swallowed so much of his father's dogma that he willingly spent 4 years of his life isolated on the moon to pursue a vaguely defined mission. Diego seems to be the most normal, but he was thrown out the police academy and then went on to become a violent vigilante. Klaus became a chronic drug addict terrified of his own powers as a teenager and has not moved on. Ben is freaking dead, but in the flashbacks we get of him, he seems anxious and unhappy. Number Five has his own problems. These are people that can't handle their own personal dramas, how on earth could they handle Vanya's problems as well, especially as children?  I think that's a deeply unfair ask. 

In the present day, they do not include her in some family meetings, but I didn't get the impression that this was malicious. It was how they were raised, and after spending a lot of time apart, they fell back into old patterns. In an earlier episode, Allison observes an isolated Vanya through the security cameras and asks why they never included Vanya. She phrases it in such a way that suggests to me it is occurring to her for the first time. In the series, Allison is cruel to Vanya a few times, but in almost every instance, she realizes that she is being unfair and apologizes to her in person and on the phone. The one time she hesitates on including Vanya in the family meetings is because their house was invaded by gun wielding psychopaths and Vanya has neither the powers or the training to survive. 

Also, I want to point out that one of the reasons that Diego is nasty to Vanya is because of the book she published about their family. Vanya is allowed to publish a book about her experiences, but Diego is also allowed to be deeply unhappy about the additional spotlight she put on their family. 

[Garden Wafers]

1 hour ago, pinkglove said:

Why didn't Hazel and his girlfriend die? It looked like they were about to time travel too. Had Hazel stolen something that allowed them to do it from The Handler? I missed that.

I think he stole the Handler's time-traveling briefcase and was able to escape that way. 

[Token]

Did I miss something?  How was Alison magically alive again?

[pootlus]

5 minutes ago, Token said:

Did I miss something?  How was Alison magically alive again?

Because her throat was slit, but despite the amount of blood it didn't include the carotid artery so she was up and about (including sprinting for her life) within 24 hours.  Dramatic licence I suppose.  It's not realistic but I like Allison so personally I'm hand-waving it.

Also I COVET her dress during the dream Luther/Allison dance sequence. It was simple but lovely.

[SnoGirl]

5 hours ago, pinkglove said:

A quick question:

Why didn't Hazel and his girlfriend die? It looked like they were about to time travel too. Had Hazel stolen something that allowed them to do it from The Handler? I missed that.

I noticed that last night as I was rewatching the show already.  They definitely time-traveled. The same blue appeared around them as Klaus’ time-traveling.

Also, in the last episode it really assumed me that Klaus, Allison, and Five all kept their bowling shoes on for the rest of the episode. I kept trying to see if Luther or Diego had them on too (I dont think Diego did, but I never clearly saw their feet). I wish Ben would have had them on.

Speaking of Ben, I thought it was interesting in some of the earlier episodes, he was reading a book. So, he could hold that and Klaus never noticed. It was right there.

Also, a huge spoiler in episode three for the end of the show:

Spoiler

Did anyone notice what Mom was sewing when Diego turned her off? At first I thought it was a black and white peace sign. However, on my second viewing, I realized...with the black background and the broken white circle...it was DEFINITELY THE MOON. 

Someone confirm if they agree, I was geeking out when I realized it. Did Mom, Togo and their father know Vanya would take out the freakin’ moon?? Why didnt they tell anyone 🤦🏻‍♀️

[jamfly]

I really could have done without the  Luther/Allison stuff; why couldn't they just have been close. Why go the incest route? They were almost literally raised together from birth. Just ew. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, I'm just finishing the season now but definitely have things to point out. I feel like this season was fairly good in terms of setting things up. I do think they really underused and undertold what capabilities the Seven had in terms of their powers. We got a lot about why Klaus was a drug user and it makes sense as to why he blocked out the potential that he had with his ability, but we only scratched the surface of what he can do. With Luther, we kind of got a vague idea of his ability. Allison is one of the only three main females in this show and we only got the cliffnotes version of her history. We didn't get much on Ben. Despite him being dead, he was still present in the season and we don't even know how he died.

I actually feel like they skimped out on the women, or lackthereof, in this season. We have Allison, who wasn't used to her full potential. We have Vanya, who was half a plot device for Leonard/Harold, who was obviously evil from the start and half a plot device for the supposed big reveal with the Apocalypse (of course I caught on that Vanya was conveniently missing from Five's recollection of finding his family dead). And then we had Cha-Cha, who was mostly arguing with Hazel. 

I definitely feel like this season was more about "Oh, we're setting up the main plot points and some basic bullet points about the characters....but we'll get more into them if we're renewed for a season 2. Fingers crossed!" I feel like Five was one of the very few who got a lot of development and was his own person. 

Klaus was probably the second most developed main character but a lot of it was more about his self loathing and trying to keep the ghosts away. We had a random (for me) plot about him time travelling back to the Vietnam War which I guess helped with his development but I also felt like it was an easy write-out. As someone who never read the comics, I guess I could have a different perception. Or maybe I wasn't expecting that to happen and was taken off guard. Either way, it was really the finale when I thought "Huh, maybe there's potential for him, yet." It helped for them to take his passive power and turn it into an active one. Plus, that means more Ben, which...yay!

Diego was an interesting character for me, though. I felt like he had a good balance of a good storyline and good development that wasn't eye rolling. It was a shame Detective Patch died, as I liked her. 

I wanted to like Luther and Vanya as characters, but I think I like them the least. Vanya, in particular, was so boring and then so naive. They did work toward correcting that by the end of the season (once she killed Leonard/Harold) but it was a slow process for me to get there. Her story was so predictable so I'm hoping, if there is a next season (I suspect there will be), I think her character needs some fun spark to her.

As for Luther, I get his struggles and story, but I didn't really like him all that much. Also, I'll admit I didn't like the Luther/Allison stuff. I like Allison and am neutral with Luther, but I was too creeped out by the incest, even if I understood it. 

However, from how their father treated all of them, I can totally see why they all turned out the way that they did. I mean, sure, Vanya seemed out of control and leading toward psycopathy as a kid, but if Reginald had actually worked on training her and helping her to control her emotions, I think she could have turned out better. I also can't say I felt for Pogo's death. He could have helped fill in the blanks much, much earlier and had NO good reason to keep it a secret after Reginald's death. I guess that's the downside to Stockholm victims, but still. 

I don't know; I did like this season enough to binge it in an entire day (the last four episodes or so were pretty good), but there was still something missing. I'm hoping that the potential season 2 can help with that because the characters all haven't reached their full potential. I will do a rewatch of this season at some point to see if my perceptions change about characters (I suspect that they will).

I will say the music and the fight scenes were a fantastic part of this series. 

[SevenStars]

1 hour ago, jamfly said:

I really could have done without the  Luther/Allison stuff; why couldn't they just have been close. Why go the incest route? They were almost literally raised together from birth. Just ew. 

It seems like they were raised more like heros/soldiers in training than real siblings, so because of that I can understand how they can develop romantic feelings for each other. 

With that said, it wasn't necessary, so I'm wondering if it was put there because of the source material.

Edited February 19, 2019 by SevenStars

[kieyra]

4 hours ago, pootlus said:

Because her throat was slit, but despite the amount of blood it didn't include the carotid artery so she was up and about (including sprinting for her life) within 24 hours.  Dramatic licence I suppose.  It's not realistic but I like Allison so personally I'm hand-waving it.

The real purpose was that her vocal cords were magically severed but not her carotid artery. So they neutralized one of their most powerful players right before the big finale, to avoid superpower bloat, I guess. (Mind-control tends to trump all.) I was thinking about how frustrating that must have been for the actress. 🙂 It was also frustrating from an 'arc' standpoint. When we didn't see adult Allison use her power at all (unless I missed it in one of the five thousand Allison/Luther scenes), I assumed it was so it would have more impact when she used it in the finale.

Edited February 19, 2019 by kieyra

[Ripley68]

I was bummed cause I thought there were 14 episodes!  I pretty much watched all of them in 24 hours, loved it, even having figured out Leonard was a jerk and Vanya the key pretty early. The only character I couldn't really get behind was Luther, though really enjoyed his rave scene.  Hazel, Cha-Cha and the Handler were great.    I think all their powers will grow with time. Only Diego and Allison seem to have used their powers regularly after leaving the house. How do you truly trust someone who can change your reality with a "rumor?" I wonder if she rumored herself an Oscar? Allison said early on that she wouldn't use her powers again after what happened with her daughter. The only time she was going to cave was with Vanya.

I think Ellen did a great job showing Vanya shaking off the effect of the meds.  I thought she was so bleh and boring at first too, but when she started waking up it made a lot more sense.  Hazel grabbed the Handlers case and locked it in the vent like he did with his old one.  The guys in the masks were from the time company place.  They showed the masks in the same room as the brief cases.

I want to know why the other 36 kids haven't shown off their powers yet.  I get this was an origin show, but I'm curious to know what else is out there. I'd like to know more about the time place. Why are they headquartered in the 50's?  Who's in charge?  How do they pick people - since 5 seems to be the only one who can jump through time.

Klaus and Five pulled their characters off the best.  Mom did great too.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Ripley68

[SevenStars]

After young Vanya seems to refuse/reject the training, Reginald seems super scared of her. But his solution to that fear was short-sighted and stupid.

[theatremouse]

On 2/16/2019 at 12:04 PM, Anela said:

I like Allison, and Vanya, but it feels like the creator is trying to be Wes Anderson. That was just the feeling I got from the family itself.

I heard this described as "if the Watchmen were the Royal Tennenbaums".

On 2/16/2019 at 9:31 PM, mustbekarma said:

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for Vanya. She murdered three nannies. The dad may have been a dick, but Vanya obviously was out of control at an early age.

I might not have been paying enough attention but I'm not certain they were all definitely dead? Seriously injured, for sure.

Glass half-full: Vanya's the reason they had a Mom. Also I was super amused that Mom's name was "Grace" because that character had a total Grace Kelly visual, and I'm assuming all of that was intentional.

[hincandenza]

Finished last night, echoing the general enjoyment, along with some of the gripes about character/dialogue/plot.  I'll be back for season 2, although I'm getting really tired of Netflix doing cliffhangers with their original shows/movies as if saying "If you don't get your friends to watch this and drive up the stats... you'll never know what happens next!".

Regarding the show mythos, some thoughts I wanted to offer:

The Commission: Was the Commission meant as an allegory for white supremacists/Confederacy and end-of-days evangelical types?  Their chosen home base and style- being able to live just about anywhere in time- is a stately compound in 1955, and they seem reeeally obsessed with keeping the "status quo", no matter who is hurt.  They're totally cool with the end of the world- even working toward it- because they know they survive the "rapture".  Plus, with the exception of Cha-cha, I think they're all white, whereas the Academy members are ethnically diverse.

The Apocalypse: The version of the apocalypse Vanya triggers in episode 10 is clearly different than what Five had originally experience; if the moon actually broke, the earth would be scoured of all life, excepting maybe on the ocean floors (the Neal Stephenson book "Seveneves" involves this). There would have been no rubble or wreckage for Five to wander about, much less for the Commission to have formed from its ashes to engage in time travel policing.  Assuming they're even from earth... 

Reginald Hargreeves: It's kind of glossed over, but didn't the show implicitly tell us that Reginald is an alien?!?  He has lived for what, a couple of hundred years building his fortune; he clearly can predict the future to some extent; he has hyper-advanced technology (sentient chimps and robots, etc); and that flashback shows he came from a planet that had a Krypton-like(?) mass launching of rockets, before arriving in 18th/19th century earth.

It would explain his atrocious parenting skills...

The Seven: Small comic source spoiler: my read on this is influenced by a wiki sentence implying the magical insta-births may be a fragmented Second Coming.  The 7 all think the numbering is based on importance and Reginald's favor, with Luther at the top... but really, the numbers clearly to escalate in power and importance.  Far from Luther being the favored, he was #1 because he was the weakest and least important. 

With somewhat generous stretching, I think you can map the seven Academy members to the seven seals of the apocalypse:

• Luther- Bow, crown; Conquest
• Powers are super strength and (allegedly) leadership.
• Diego- Great swords; War
• Represents fighting, battle
• Allison- Scales; Famine, wealth inequality
• Powers of manipulation, becomes wealthy and famous
• Klaus- Death
• Yeah, this one seems pretty clear. :)
• Five- Souls of martyrs; those persecuted throughout time, awaiting the rapture
• Powers are space and time travel; moved through time persecuting people.
• Ben- Darkness; the punishment of the wicked and redemption of the righteous
• A stretch, but he's "dead", and in touch with the Cthulhuan darkness.
• Vanya- Seven Trumpets (the wrath of god)
• She uses sound to destroy things.  She blows up the planet.  'Nuff said.
   

Anyway, thanks for indulging my musings.  :) Interesting and entertaining show; I enjoyed watching it!

[ramble]

On 2/17/2019 at 2:05 AM, JonasArm said:

It makes for a predictible and dissapointing final in what remains an otherwise pleasant show.

Edited Yest. at 02:12 AM by JonasArm

Exactly! The final felt very hodge podge to me and slightly under cooked. 

I enjoyed the characters on this show quite a lot. The quirks worked for me and the ones that were over the top seemed to have other qualities to temper the quirks. I found Allison a bit bland and the idea of her daughter seemed to come and go as needed but I’ll take likable bland over how I felt about her sister.  

I disliked the character of Vanya from the first moment she made an appearance so that took some enjoyment out of the show for me. I found her boring and whiny. Even when she became super powerful vengeful girl I found her yawn inducing. I don’t know if the actress intentionally played her that way or what the issue was but I actively wanted her to be off my screen each moment she was on. I eventually started FF’ing a good deal of her scenes. Her interactions with her boyfriend were painful to watch. Ugh. 

I know dear old dad was a bastard but I was intrigued by his character and would’ve liked to know a little more about him. 

[pootlus]

50 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

Glass half-full: Vanya's the reason they had a Mom. Also I was super amused that Mom's name was "Grace" because that character had a total Grace Kelly visual, and I'm assuming all of that was intentional.

Yeah I got very strong Grace Kelly vibes too and assumed the same.  The actress was amazing to pull off all the robotic stuff of seeming almost but not really human (as well as being absolutely stunning in the looks department).

24 minutes ago, ramble said:

I know dear old dad was a bastard but I was intrigued by his character and would’ve liked to know a little more about him. 

Given the flashback we had, which wasn't really explained at all (rockets taking off - so he's an alien/human from another planet or time?), plus the fact that he ages very slowly - he seemed to arrive in the US in the 20s - I'm guessing there's more backstory to get from Reginald.

I realised after the show ended that I am a total hypocrite because I was completely "ugh - this is incest" when they clearly intended to shack up Barry and Iris over on The Flash but didn't have an issue with Luthor/Allison here.  Maybe it was due to the unconventional upbringing.  Also that phone box scene, where Luthor dropped the speech she gave him to read to her daughter and then basically told her daughter all the things he felt about Allison slayed me.  Yes it was corny as hell but I was blubbing like a baby.

[formerlyfreedom]

After having some time to digest, I have to say that I'm more impressed with the cast than I was even originally.

Tom Hopper (Dickon Tarly!) really did a good job with Luther IMO - and Luther is to me the least likable of all the Academy. The dance between Luther/Allison was such a lovely scene. Yes, he was hampered by the costuming, but having read the graphic novels, I think I prefer that they went with the costuming rather than CGI for his role - the physical awkwardness was something he conveyed so well, and I don't think he could have done that with CGI.

Diego surprised me with how sympathetic I was to his character. I worried going in that I would have difficulty keeping the male characters apart, but David Castañeda really created a memorable role there (and I MAY be crushing a bit on Diego. Just a tiny bit. A-hem, I'll be in my bunk for a few minutes).

I was inclined to dislike Allison, again, having read the source material, and Emmy Raver-Lampman really was able to make her a character that I could like (even though the concept of The Rumor was not very well developed as an adult here). I wish we'd seen a little bit more of her daughter - it felt like that storyline was only used when it would push the story forward, and ignored when it was convenient.

And Justin Min was really very understated and kind of perfect as Ben. That was a departure from the source material, and frankly, I thought it was borderline brilliant. Although I couldn't help hoping he'd break through and become fully corporeal for us before the end of the season. Oh well. There's always NEXT season, RIGHT, NETFLIX?

There's been plenty said already about Five and Klaus, and I have nothing but praise for the actors playing them. Vanya was kind of...I get it, a tough concept. I do agree with someone earlier, I don't think it was confirmed that young Vanya killed ALL those nannies, but I put a lot more weight on Sir Reginald for the mistakes the young kids made than on the kids themselves. Ellen Page did well with what she had, I think. I liked her less and less as the episodes progressed, but I think that's the way it was supposed to happen. Some parts of her story felt a little drug out.

Cha-Cha and Hazel were so much fun! Those two, especially Hazel, grew on me throughout the episodes. And I really enjoyed Kate Walsh as The Handler, and I felt like she was really relishing the role. It was something outside the confines of what she's usually done.

I hope we get more about Pogo, and Mom in the future. Even Sir Reginald the Supreme Asshole, the Jor El from the bad place, please.

[jmonique]

So Hargreeves goes scurrying around the world, picking up as many of the miracle births as possible like a suburban mom racing through Target on Black Friday, then goes about raising them all to be heroes who'll stop the end of the world...

which comes about, ultimately because he was a distant, demanding jackass who emotionally abused his purchases, and never got around to trying to deal with or being honest with the atom bomb known as Number 7. 

And yet, I was all in. Even though Vanya was obviously a psychopath, given how little response she had to tearing through nannies at 4, or slaughtering Leonard. The Phoenix Has Risen thing where Vanya checked out and went full The White Violin was completely disturbing and infuriating: Yeah, sure, your childhood sucks, who didn't? But the joy of having seven characters throughout the series meant that when I was annoyed with one, the others were there to carry things for me. Klaus discovering how fully he could channel Ben, Diego and Luther working together like brothers, and Allison trying so hard to save her broken, seemingly forever lost sister had me all in.

The "everybody lived happily ever after" in me wants to think they'll all blink back to 2002 with all the knowledge of how things could go and be able to avoid things like Luther going ape, Klaus going junkie and Ben going, well, dead, but I'd hope they'd keep Aidan Gallagher around as Number Five, because his premature old man schtick with that face that's at once 15 and 50 is amazing.

[Cthulhudrew]

Re: Nannies-

I didn't get the impression any of them had died, just been beaten up (and quite possibly terribly injured- especially the third). 

I felt a little let down by the last several episodes. The Hazel and Cha-cha storyline never progressed much beyond incidental (and dark) humor, to the point that I feel it was largely wasted time once their hunt for Five and murder of Patch. I also didn't care much for Kate Walsh's character, though I'm not sure it was due to the writing or her performance.

I felt the Vanya storyline just went through the motions at a certain point, and didn't really do either the actors or the story up to that point any justice. It was superficial, too quickly resolved, and too sloppily- requiring characters to perform as the story needed them to, and not as I felt they would/should have by that point. Plus the "cliffhanger" ending just felt too commercially contrived.

I already mentioned how I felt gypped by episode 6. I can't stand reset buttons in stories. I cannot think of any time that I have seen it done well, and it is just a disservice to the audience to have your characters grow and have meaningful interactions only to wipe the slate clean again. Granted, a lot of the beats that were hit in that episode still ended up coming to fruition in episode 7, but only for the peripheral characters (Hazel, Cha-cha, etc.). You took some of the best, most poignant moments of the main characters- Diego and Klaus bonding; Allison and Luther's "dance"- and just gave me the middle finger by pulling the football away from me as I was about to connect. That definitely colored my view of the remaining episodes.

That said, by and large I did enjoy this series. The characters were mostly colorful and likeable. The setting was interesting- although I could never quite grasp what they were trying to do with the timeline (it is seemingly modern day, based on certain references, but then you have typewriters, trimline phones, etc.). Like others, Klaus and Five were the standouts of the series. Diego was a jerk, but had moments of genuine vulnerability. Luther and Allison needed a bit more attention, but the broad strokes of their characters were there. Vanya was more interesting in the beginning than she became in the end. And Ben- I wanted more Ben. That they left the revelation of his continued existence for the finale was yet another disappointment of E10, but this was such a great departure from the comics for them to include him here. As someone else noted, there is always S2 to have more of him.

A lot of great ideas, some of them very well-executed, others not so much. Enough to hook me for another season if there is one, and I would recommend it.

[GaT]

I'm watching episode 7 & the sound on this series is driving me crazy. When everyone speaks the sound is low. Then, they'll have some music, or someone will start shooting & the sound suddenly gets really loud. I have to watch constantly turning the volume up or down & it's really pissing me off.

[theatremouse]

12 hours ago, pootlus said:

Given the flashback we had, which wasn't really explained at all (rockets taking off - so he's an alien/human from another planet or time?), plus the fact that he ages very slowly - he seemed to arrive in the US in the 20s - I'm guessing there's more backstory to get from Reginald.

I had been suspecting from earlier in the series that he might be alien or otherwise "special" himself and wondered if maybe they really ARE his biological children. The rockets thing sort of pushed me more in that direction. I realize there's a long time gap between then and the "suddenly pregnant and giving birth" happening, but if it's all alien anyway who knows how long that's supposed to take. Which would make the Allison/Luther situation even worse.

13 hours ago, hincandenza said:

The 7 all think the numbering is based on importance and Reginald's favor, with Luther at the top... but really, the numbers clearly to escalate in power and importance.  Far from Luther being the favored, he was #1 because he was the weakest and least important. 

Other than Luther, I didn't think the kids necessarily assumed the numbers had to do with their relative importance. Or if anything, the numbers dictated that rather than reflected it. In the very first episode there's that shot of all the prams and they're numbered. So unless Reginald had methods for knowing what their powers were before they could walk or talk, the numbers couldn't really be reflective of their power and importance. I thought the numbers reflected the order in which he obtained the babies, but because he always called them by number, they, as children, sort of manifested the hierarchy. Other than with Luther and in sending him on the mission that got him half-dead, the concept of being "my number 1" and just being named number 1 didn't seem to be throughline. It seemed like something they leaned into as they got older.

[Chaos Theory]

On 2/17/2019 at 8:30 PM, tennisgurl said:

*Sigh* I am a few episodes in, and I am trying to avoid looking at the comments, but from what I have seen so far...what did Reginald think was going to happen here, exactly? He would abuse and neglect his superpowered kids, denying them any kind of normal childhood, heaping on endless traumas and scaring them for life, and then be like "how did my test subjects end up struggling so much to work together as adults?!?"

Double this for Vanya.  Once she started showing her powers he panicked hid her away and then removed her powers.  That would have been bad enough but he systematically emotionally abused her by telling her how ordinary she was and separated her from the rest of the children.   So I don’t think her decisions to go off with a guy who shows her attention is the least bit difficult to understand.  Maybe it’s because Vanya was the character I liked best and I just “liked” her more when I realized the show was taking her down a supervilian path. Those are fun stories when done right and this one made sense to me.  So Vanya was my favorite character.

[Biosynth]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 12:31 AM, mustbekarma said:

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for Vanya. She murdered three nannies. The dad may have been a dick, but Vanya obviously was out of control at an early age.

I thought about the same. 

[Last Time Lord]

High on Estacy and dancing shirtless at a rave Luther is the best Luther

[Last Time Lord]

I seriously have no idea what to make of the ending of the season. I mean, I liked the episode, and am really excited to see where the story goes from here. 

Let’s just say as far as unsatisfying endings go, that left me very satisfied. 

[GaT]

I finished the series, & I'm not really sure what I watched.

[UNOSEZ]

Reginald was trying with vanya.. Her powers were so great and her temperment made it impossible to train with the others... She'd already shown a defiant streak.. And seemingly no compunction to using violence if ahead was told something ahead didn't want.. How was that gonna work with six other kids vyimg for the attention of a cold psycho possible alien father... Now it mat not have been love in any way bit in the least he didn't want his other possessions destroyed.. Nor did he want vanya destroyed.. Who based on the flashbacks was the Russian baby in the pool... The only one we really see born... So instead drugs and mind control... Short-sighted... But not completely out of the realm... Now what stopped him from attempting training again at say 10 when she was older.. They'll have to fill us in during season 2... 

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Reginald was trying with vanya.. Her powers were so great and her temperment made it impossible to train with the others... She'd already shown a defiant streak.. And seemingly no compunction to using violence if ahead was told something ahead didn't want.. How was that gonna work with six other kids vyimg for the attention of a cold psycho possible alien father... Now it mat not have been love in any way bit in the least he didn't want his other possessions destroyed.. Nor did he want vanya destroyed.. Who based on the flashbacks was the Russian baby in the pool... The only one we really see born... So instead drugs and mind control... Short-sighted... But not completely out of the realm... Now what stopped him from attempting training again at say 10 when she was older.. They'll have to fill us in during season 2... 

Once he had Allison use her powers against Vanya to make her think she was just ordinary, I think it was made pretty clear that he was never going to allow her to train again. In my opinion, Reginald DID give up. He didn't seem to try very hard. She didn't fit in his method of training so her powers needed to be suppressed and she needed to never remember that she had powers. The other kids didn't know about her powers either, even at her younger age, so she didn't get a lot of training for very long. He then proceeded to treat Vanya very poorly for the rest of her life, basically tossing her away because she couldn't use her powers. Reginald treated his "children" like experiments, not like children that he cared for. So no sympathy for Reginald here. He could have put more effort in, and he chose not to. Sure, he tried different nannies and that gave the family Grace, but it doesn't make him a noble man. Vanya was out of control, I agree. Suppressing her powers isn't a way to deal with it, since we know it messed her up and it just delayed the inevitable. Reginald's choices were only to benefit him, it seems. I mean, Pogo and Grace also knew about Vanya and they never said anything in all of this time, even after Reginald's death. 

Then again, Reginald didn't just make bad choices with Vanya, even though she was out of control. His bad choices with each of his children/experiments make it clear that I don't think I could feel any sympathy toward him. HE made things worse. He could have helped Vanya control her emotions but he decided to make things worse, to the point where she was so consumed by rage that she was blaming her own siblings for her powers being suppressed, despite them having nothing to do with it, besides Allison, who was used and manipulated and only just remembered the event.

[UNOSEZ]

48 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Then again, Reginald didn't just make bad choices with Vanya, even though she was out of control. His bad choices with each of his children/experiments make it clear that I don't think I could feel any sympathy toward him. HE made things worse.

Oh on a sliding scale.. Sir Reginald is definitely most to blame.. But like Allison said earlier were adults now.. Vanya was the one who wrote a book spilling family secrets.. At best like all her siblings she actively didn't seek them out.. She let her rage and jealousy win.. Is she totally culpable.. No but she's not innocent. Her and Alison in the cabin wasn't blind impulse she meant real harm because she didn't like what Alison was saying.. Even earlier in the series when she first started coming off her meds she was snarky and kinda rude to Alison... Not to say I don't get it.. Not sure I'd love to have a world famous beautiful sister who I assume could get whatever she wants by saying a few words... But in her conversations with Harold she made it seem like when her siblings weren't including her in their plans they were acting holier-than-thou and not like the world wasn't in legit danger... After she almost killed Allison and got locked up she couldn't control herself it was obvious that at least Diego Alison and Klaus weren't happy about her being locked up.. Instead of taking a minute to reflect on what she did to her sister..  Not to mention brutally murdering harold.. And the fact she knows she can't control her power yet.. She rages out.. Almost kills all her siblings destroys their home kills their mom and pogo... Naw.. Vanya is definitely a victim of bad parenting.. But she has to own some of the carnage as well. 

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Oh on a sliding scale.. Sir Reginald is definitely most to blame.. But like Allison said earlier were adults now.. Vanya was the one who wrote a book spilling family secrets.. At best like all her siblings she actively didn't seek them out.. She let her rage and jealousy win.. Is she totally culpable.. No but she's not innocent. Her and Alison in the cabin wasn't blind impulse she meant real harm because she didn't like what Alison was saying.. Even earlier in the series when she first started coming off her meds she was snarky and kinda rude to Alison... Not to say I don't get it.. Not sure I'd love to have a world famous beautiful sister who I assume could get whatever she wants by saying a few words... But in her conversations with Harold she made it seem like when her siblings weren't including her in their plans they were acting holier-than-thou and not like the world wasn't in legit danger... After she almost killed Allison and got locked up she couldn't control herself it was obvious that at least Diego Alison and Klaus weren't happy about her being locked up.. Instead of taking a minute to reflect on what she did to her sister..  Not to mention brutally murdering harold.. And the fact she knows she can't control her power yet.. She rages out.. Almost kills all her siblings destroys their home kills their mom and pogo... Naw.. Vanya is definitely a victim of bad parenting.. But she has to own some of the carnage as well. 

Oh yeah, all the kids have made some pretty bad choices in life. I don't think only one person is to blame. I think they've shown that these characters are flawed to different extremes. I just think Reginald started the snowball of all of his children's lives. If he had treated them better, would they have turned out to be better adjusted? Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe Vanya would have still ended up almost causing the end of the world. But Reginald certainly didn't make things better. Vanya still is the cause of her own demise, though. I don't like Vanya, to be clear. She's my least favourite character, only ahead of Reginald at this point. 

Basically, all these characters aren't great people. Allison used her powers on her own daughter. Luther's love and dedication to his father cost him his own actual life, both metaphorically and literally. Klaus' fear of his power caused him to become a drug addict. Diego became a violent vigilante. Five's own ego caused him to time travel into the future for almost 50 full years. And Vanya has her own slew of problems that caused her to almost destroy the world. 

[theatremouse]

I also think 5's behavior as they got older probably reinforced to Reginald that he'd made a good choice with Vanya. That scene at the dinner table right before 5 disappeared probably cemented for him. He kept reminding 5 he didn't truly understand the nature of what he was doing and was being reckless and a danger not only to himself with trying to time jump before he was ready. I could see how in his mind, imagine trying to reason with Vanya in the same context, at the same age or younger. Instead of just running off and jumping through time and getting stuck, she could've taken down the house (which I think they said was 4 city blocks) much sooner. I'm not saying he made a good choice at all, but even with the children he was training and teaching and in theory making Responsible Superheroes out of, it didn't go smoothly. So there's internal logic to his thinking "this is more than I can control, and it's too dangerous to continue to give her the time to control it herself". He absolutely contributed to the problem by isolating her and treating her like crap. Clearly the violin meant a lot to him. He was probably protecting himself a little that he didn't let that come out more outloud to her. She poured herself into trying to be extraordinary with the violin and if he'd seemed to value that she might not have felt so terrible her whole life. Or if he tried to turn her into more of a mini-him. Or an M type character. She seemed to be helping him a bit, measuring things, timing them, training them. Anything to lean into her importance. Hell, she could've been their leader but not going on the missions directly. He could've put her in a strategic position of power.

Maybe he was worried the pills weren't enough and he wanted her far away from even planning the missions because he was worried about her emotions being strong enough even while medicated. I don't know. But he had so many options for keeping her involved, and close to him and he seemed to not understand at all the concept of making someone feel like nothing does not actually keep them chill. Just the opposite.

[UNOSEZ]

Yeah I feel like we can mostly all agree that season two is gonna need to explain a bit more about Reginald's thought process with the kids.. Or maybe at least some conversations between he and pogo showing how we got here... Cuz i see some of the logic.. But in other ways I'm flabbergasted... Also I'd like to see how he acted with Ben and Alison as Ben died young.. Diego seemed to be Mom's fave vanya was kept separated also seems Klaus was to an extent.. Luther  was just an obedient dog and five thought he was smarter than everyone so I have a decent idea about how Reggie treated those ones.. But number 3 seems like she may have been a favored child ( as much as he was capable of)  and Ben is just a mystery 

[non sequitur]

They could have cut out a lot of Hazel and Cha-Cha. I didn't like the dark turn for Cha-Cha, even though it was implied from the start.

I wish more time was spent on Ben and Five, instead of Leonard/Harold and Vanya.

[jmonique]

1 minute ago, non sequitur said:

They could have cut out a lot of Hazel and Cha-Cha. I didn't like the dark turn for Cha-Cha, even though it was implied from the start.

I wish more time was spent on Ben and Five, instead of Leonard/Harold and Vanya.

We could have also spent more time with Ben and Five than we did with Hazel and Agnes. For sure.

I enjoyed the series but I was bothered by the indiscriminate killings throughout. 13-year-old Ben was instructed to just unleash The Horror on those bank robbers -- no trial, no jury of their peers, just being ripped apart by tentacles sprung forth by a tween? Same with the tow-truck driver murdered by Cha-Cha and Hazel, or the attempted murder of Agnes. Those just felt gratuitous. 

(Screw Harold Leonard, though. He got what he deserved.)

[non sequitur]

1 minute ago, jmonique said:

We could have also spent more time with Ben and Five than we did with Hazel and Agnes. For sure.

I enjoyed the series but I was bothered by the indiscriminate killings throughout. 13-year-old Ben was instructed to just unleash The Horror on those bank robbers -- no trial, no jury of their peers, just being ripped apart by tentacles sprung forth by a tween? Same with the tow-truck driver murdered by Cha-Cha and Hazel, or the attempted murder of Agnes. Those just felt gratuitous. 

(Screw Harold Leonard, though. He got what he deserved.)

Yes! Especially the tow-truck driver and the murder of Patch.

[moonshine71]

14 hours ago, jmonique said:

We could have also spent more time with Ben and Five than we did with Hazel and Agnes. For sure.

I enjoyed the series but I was bothered by the indiscriminate killings throughout. 13-year-old Ben was instructed to just unleash The Horror on those bank robbers -- no trial, no jury of their peers, just being ripped apart by tentacles sprung forth by a tween? Same with the tow-truck driver murdered by Cha-Cha and Hazel, or the attempted murder of Agnes. Those just felt gratuitous. 

(Screw Harold Leonard, though. He got what he deserved.)

Add the three nannies Vanya killed to that, i thought it was weird how they were treated in that scene, it was almost played for humor w/ Reginald's reactions.

Had no problem w/ Reginald suppressing Vanya's powers. How many innocent people does a 4 year old need to kill before you go to that option.

Not sure if i was supposed to be rooting for Hazel and his girlfriend, but i want that bastard to die after his brutal torture and murder of three innocent tow truck driver. Fuck him. There was no reason to kill that guy at all.

Such a weird vibe overall that's never mentioned, placing it in a fictional 2019 where computers and cell phones don't exist. I see the comic was set in 1977, so they had to choose either setting it in that era(probably increasing the budget to make many things period accurate), setting it in this alternate universe 2019, or making some big story changes to accommodate for technology.

[UNOSEZ]

40 minutes ago, moonshine71 said:

Add the three nannies Vanya killed to that, i thought it was weird how they were treated in that scene, it was almost played for humor w/ Reginald's reactions.

Had no problem w/ Reginald suppressing Vanya's powers. How many innocent people does a 4 year old need to kill before you go to that option.

Not sure if i was supposed to be rooting for Hazel and his girlfriend, but i want that bastard to die after his brutal torture and murder of three innocent tow truck driver. Fuck him. There was no reason to kill that guy at all.

Such a weird vibe overall that's never mentioned, placing it in a fictional 2019 where computers and cell phones don't exist. I see the comic was set in 1977, so they had to choose either setting it in that era(probably increasing the budget to make many things period accurate), setting it in this alternate universe 2019, or making some big story changes to accommodate for technology.

I was confused by the time period.. Because I kept wondering why they didn't call each other on phones instead of racing from place to place

[AngelKitty]

44 minutes ago, moonshine71 said:

Such a weird vibe overall that's never mentioned, placing it in a fictional 2019 where computers and cell phones don't exist. I see the comic was set in 1977, so they had to choose either setting it in that era(probably increasing the budget to make many things period accurate), setting it in this alternate universe 2019, or making some big story changes to accommodate for technology.

This seems to be a trend nowadays. I think the development of cell phones has given suspense writers many headaches.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned how Hargreaves acquired a sentient monkey. At first, I thought he was a robot like Mom, then he was killed, so no.

And what about the other kids? They were never mentioned again.

And then, did anyone notice a little girl on the bus when Vanya was going to the concert hall? I thought she looked like Hargreaves' wife from the beginning scene and she looked at the violin and smiled.

[Chaos Theory]

Asking why didn’t Vanya take a step back and think things through logically is like asking someone why they didn’t act logically after their siblings put tnem in their worst PTSD nightmare and not give them a chance to explain or defend themselves.  

I am not saying what Vanya did was right.  But she wanted out of that room and unless you are saying she would have let her sibling keep her locked up forever then I can understand her wanting out whatever the cost.  

The problem is once she blew the prison every slight and lie against her came rushing back.  Every time she was excluded and demeaned.  By that point she was running on pure rage.

There is no stepping back from that.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Last Time Lord]

45 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Asking why didn’t Vanya take a step back and think things through logically is like asking someone why they didn’t act logically after their siblings put you in your worst PTSD nightmare and not give you a chance to explain or defend yourself.  

I am not saying what Vanya did was right.  But she wanted out of that room and unless you are think she would have let her sibling keep her locked up forever then I can understand her wanting out whatever the cost.  

The problem is once she blew the prison every slight and lie against her came rushing back.  Every time she was excluded and demeaned.  By that point she was running on pure rage.

There is no stepping back from that.

Worst part is she was showing genuine remorse over what she accidentally did to Allison, only for Luther to do that, shoving her over the edge. 

[Sakura12]

To me it didn't look like Reginald put any effort into helping Vanya control her darker impulses. All he wanted was perfect soliders/super heroes and Vanya didn't fit his agenda so he gave up.

She was 4 years old he should've been teaching her that killing people you don't like is wrong or if he didn't care to spend the time then he should have programed Grace to train and teach Vanya compassion while the other kids trained with him. Or gone the Dexter route and trained her to go after bad people, murderers, pedophiles, sex traffickers. 

Suppressing her powers, excluding her and treating her like she didn't matter created a ticking time bomb. As she got older Vanya made her own choices and nobody growing up in that household would turn into a well adjusted adult. However the others did grow up knowing the mattered that they could make a difference. I'm not excusing anything she did, but it's understandable at why she turned out the way she did. 

Then Luthor made the same mistake. He locked her up fueling her anger. I mean would they lock Klaus back up in a mausoleum if he was out of control? Being locked up again probably brought back all her trauma and then watching her family just leave her there. 

Since they turned back into kids again, hopefully with their knowledge and they include Vanya in the family this time and help her control her powers. 

[Enigma X]

49 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Then Luthor made the same mistake. He locked her up fueling her anger. I mean would they lock Klaus back up in a mausoleum if he was out of control? Being locked up again probably brought back all her trauma and then watching her family just leave her there. 

Umm, honestly with this family I would say probably.

I liked Vanya in the beginning but by the end...eh. I saw her whole storyline coming as soon as adult Vanya was introduced, but it was the way they told her story that soured me on her. And I definitely do not condone her murder of Pogo but do feel that viewers are sort of giving Pogo a pass (cutish animal and all) on not intervening with the children, because he witnessed the abuse Reginald put the children through. I give Grace a pass (robot and all).