S05.E15 Reunion Part 1 2018.07.19

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Lmaoooooo!!!! now this is a conversation I would’ve paid to observe.  A lady who shouldn’t be in labor but is on a scosh of prophynol?  The. Best.  

When they told me it was “too late” for the epidural to take effect?  Well.  {{smoothsskirt}} I’m told the candor that followed hastened the team’s efforts.  

Super envious of insta bonds.  All I could think (but didn’t say) was what are you crying for, I did the hard part.  They are irresistibly adorable though.  Still? #teamoneanddone

Love the hashtag!  I could see adopting but he was such a cool kid and we live down the street from cousins so.......................................

[ParadoxLost]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 10:47 PM, Bronzedog said:

Sooo, this is on again.  I’m confused.  Craig is talking about unconditional love because he apparently drew hearts around his and Naomi’s initials on the cover of his notebook and practiced writing “Mrs. Naomi Conover” whenever he had the time.  He says he’d love Naomi even if she was a heroin addict. Then later he says now hates her because they are no longer together (and, possibly because she got a nose job).  If he loved Naomi unconditionally, wouldn’t he still love her regardless of her lack of love for him?  Is there a Nicholas Sparks novel I should read to understand this?  For years I thought love meant never having to say you’re sorry.  

That all boiled down to Craig hating Naomi because she's the one that ended it.

17 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

Watching the way he said that shit, something clicked for me, I get it, I get why Naomi reacted the way she did. It’s like you’re talking to this person who makes no sense and just makes up his own bullshit idea of reality to suit himself. He doesn’t own anything. No, Craig, deadlines are NOT abritrary when you’re working with other people! The world doesn’t wait for you. 

What’s infuriating is how un-apologetic and unaccountable he is about all of it. 

He doesn't need to apologize or be accountable.  As long as he does what he says someday, then it isn't a lie.  He says he'll leave the house at eleven?  as long as he does that once before he dies, he didn't lie.

 

14 hours ago, Heathrowe said:

Craig started the show FIRED UP.  He is so pretty to look at, but he is nuts. Naomi-also pretty to look at with whatever nose she has-but she is mean. Hopefully she will learn to fight fair with the new boyfriend. It's not about winning-it's about understanding each other.

I viewed Craig and Naomi's relationship though a lens of two people with personalities that can't coexist in a relationship together.  I think whatever meanness Naomi inflicted on Craig, Craig inflicted his own personality traits on Naomi in a way that upset her just as much as she did Craig. 

When it comes down to it, I'm coming down on Naomi's side on this for a couple simple reasons.  Naomi clearly said this is enough and ended a toxic relationship that Craig would have let go on forever.  At the reunion, Naomi tried to keep things from turning into a vitriolic blame game by saying that they were fine.  Craig is the one that refuted and then had to put his crazy on parade.  Naomi said they hadn't seen each other for eight months.  He needs to get some real help to get over it if he can't cope.

What I did think was interesting is that it seems like most of the cast doesn't like Craig.  I think Craig irritates Shep almost as much as he does Naomi.  Austen and Chelsea come across as not liking Craig, maybe because Naomi/Shep conflict with him.  Cam seems to think that he's pathetically earnest.  Only Kathyrn seems to like him.  And I think Kathryn likes Craig more than he does any of the women which is why she carried Naomi's confidence back to Craig.  I would say this is because bygones isn't really bygones and the friendship between the women and Kathyrn is for show or Kathyrn doesn't really trust it.

[fetching]

On 7/15/2018 at 8:05 PM, dosodog said:

 

Truth be told, I don't think I like any of them anymore. Except for Cameron. 

Except now Cameron is flogging crap on her social media like she said she would never do and took a bunch of people to task for in the past. Unfollowed. 

[CaliCat]

13 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I'm on a unpopular roll so I might as well keep going lol.   I also refute the assertion that the surprise about Craig sewing/having a machine is gender bias.  I don't think it's shock that a guy would sew more than it's shock that this guy sews.  I don't sew or knit but it seems like something you'd have finish for people to be able to tell you're good at.    Here I made you an unfinished, unstuffed teddy bear for if I ever feel like getting back to it.  Maybe Palmer can finish making it.    Craig is the kind of dude who doesn't understand why you should be rewarded for the effort not just the result.  Um Craig, we stop having everybody gets a trophy races right around 4th grade boo, seek help.  Better still, work for the government.

 

Oh dear, ZM. I am one of your biggest fans. We’re both British AND American (but I’m not South African.) You are funny and I love to laugh. 

But, ahem, I work for the government, and I generally try to do a good job and finish stuff, and I don’t want to work with Craig. So would you mind taking that back?

[yourmomiseasy]

20 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

I have to agree. My husband, who has never seen the show, happened to walk by, stopped and said “Why doesn’t she just pull them out?”

I just don’t see Kathryn as this ravishing beauty. I think she is attractive but don’t find her to be a stunner. In fact, to me she is pretty average without makeup and I guess to compensate sometimes puts the makeup on so thick it reminds me of junior high in the 70s. 

I think when her make-up is done right and her styling is on point she can be quite striking.  

17 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I also am curious as to why Kathryn hasn't distanced herself from Thomas, she is also holding back. I get it, it's the kids. However, the only communication they should have is when and where to schedule visitation pick up and drop off. No dancing in the living room at TRav's house, no invites to the birthday parties, no dinners afterwards. She is still hanging on to him more than need be which leads me to believe she is not over him which then leads me to wonder what will it take for her to be thoroughly disgusted by him? Where are her morals? And most importantly, isn't she fearful that this monster has 50% custody of her children? 

It's a lot easier for the kids if Thomas and Kathryn can get along.  All the contentiousness and  acrimony can be stressful, even when they're that little.    

[Heathrowe]

Also-she needs him to pay child support. There's kids AND money involved. When you are a single mom, it's really easy to get manipulated/dicked around with this as leverage. I suspect half of this joyful co-parenting that coincidentally happened around the time he was charged is image rehab on his part. Whether she is smart enough to know that or not-she doesn't have much leverage yet. If he's convicted it will be a different story. There's also money and kids involved with Elizabeth and JD. It's easy enough to burn bridges and walk away when you are single but when you have kids you are stuck with that relationship, and unless you're a well-off woman on your own-a certain amount of dependency.

[RedDelicious]

5 hours ago, fetching said:

Except now Cameron is flogging crap on her social media like she said she would never do and took a bunch of people to task for in the past. Unfollowed. 

I have noticed that too and it's disappointing. I always really liked it when she would share products and specify that it was not an ad and she would never do that. They must be making her offers she can't refuse.

[VedaPierce]

21 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I also am curious as to why Kathryn hasn't distanced herself from Thomas, she is also holding back. I get it, it's the kids. However, the only communication they should have is when and where to schedule visitation pick up and drop off. No dancing in the living room at TRav's house, no invites to the birthday parties, no dinners afterwards. She is still hanging on to him more than need be which leads me to believe she is not over him which then leads me to wonder what will it take for her to be thoroughly disgusted by him? Where are her morals? And most importantly, isn't she fearful that this monster has 50% custody of her children? 

You’re really holding Katherine to a high standard. I, frankly, don’t believe she has such great morals. I’ve never admired her choices or her elegance. She’s trashy, I don’t care what her last name is. That doesn’t mean I think she’s irredeemable, but no way is she even close to that yet. She’s got it in her to do things I never in a million years would have done at her age. Ever. 

That said, I think in the end, she and Trav will get married! I think he is well in the gutter and she is his only option to not dying alone, broken, under a bridge. He will come to that realization, beg her to marry him, and she will. I said it first!! :) lol

[Jextella]

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

I have noticed that too and it's disappointing. I always really liked it when she would share products and specify that it was not an ad and she would never do that. They must be making her offers she can't refuse.

For as picture-perfect as Cameron is in nearly every....single....way...., I wonder if the home life isn't so golden given how she talked about her husband on part 1 of the reunion. Not that he's a mean or bad guy, but I got the sense wasn't super supportive of Cameron during her pregnancy and delivery....at least not in the way a woman would want.  I think his earlier DUI is also a bit revealing  Could have been just a stupid move after a night at the bars or could be a sign of other stuff that he's not dealing well with.

Cameron might be taking steps to build some income for herself should things flounder on the home front...or just as a practical matter.  Real estate is a tough gig to get started in and she may not be firmly established.  

I don't begrudge her attempts to make money on social media.  

[VedaPierce]

On 7/21/2018 at 4:13 PM, Sterling said:

Whitney actually created the show.  It was his idea to have a show about his group of friends in Charleston, and he pitched the idea to Bravo.  He's not on it much because he's behind the scenes a lot, plus he mostly lives in California.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/southern-charm-whitney-sudler-smith-career-hobbies-details

 

Plus the seasons he was on, had him looking like a total freak and weirdo! He was greatly ridiculed all around the webz, and for good reason. Renob anyone? His fake euro girlfriend-so awkward to watch them, I had to peak from behind a pillow lol. Didn’t he make an icky comment to Landon last season about her being “one of us” or “our kind”? Ew! What about his brilliant marketing ideas regarding Trav’s reelection bid and that tasteless, misogynistic campaign video. Please, Whitney is a Norman Bates-esque creeper and has the brains to limit his screen exposure now. A little bit of Whitney goes a long way....

Edited July 24, 2018 by VedaPierce

[RedDelicious]

All good points @Jextella. It's a push/pull in my head. On one hand I liked it when she was more real in that regard, on the other hand good for her. It might be that I'm envious too ?

[Jextella]

1 minute ago, RedDelicious said:

All good points @Jextella. It's a push/pull in my head. On one hand I liked it when she was more real in that regard, on the other hand good for her. It might be that I'm envious too ?

I get it.  And for Cameron and all the others, there is a way to do it and a way not to do it.  Sounds like she might be promoting things too much - so much that it has the opposite effect.  It's like celebrities and movies.  Too much is too much. 

[lilmarysunshine]

17 minutes ago, Jextella said:

For as picture-perfect as Cameron is in nearly every....single....way...., I wonder if the home life isn't so golden given how she talked about her husband on part 1 of the reunion. Not that he's a mean or bad guy, but I got the sense wasn't super supportive of Cameron during her pregnancy and delivery....at least not in the way a woman would want.  I think his earlier DUI is also a bit revealing  Could have been just a stupid move after a night at the bars or could be a sign of other stuff that he's not dealing well with.

 

I sort of got that impression, too.  Though not every man goes crazy over pregnancies as is expected nowadays. My husband certainly didn't go to all of my doctor appointments. We did the "oh-shit-we-need-to-do-this-quick-one-day-lamaze-class." There are zero pictures of either one of us holding pregnant bellies. So I think for some people the bar is set unreasonably high to determine how present a parent is in the pregnancy and birth. And because he's done this a million times for patients, I can see how the medical parts were sort of ho hum for him.

Having said all of that, though .... this is HIS baby and she seemed to be kind of explaining/excusing his lack of enthusiasm in a defensive way. If he works a lot, too, she might really be feeling the grind of doing this baby thing on her own largely.

[lezlers]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 7:01 AM, Higgins said:

And Thomas went to prison for providing Cocaine to others so......She just abhors it in women?

No, no.  It's simply that the rules don't apply to "good ol boys."  I'm sure if you're a black or latino man, she'd abhor it then, too. 

[Sun-Bun]

@Jextella, I immediately thought the exact same thing about Cameron having seen her doing these recent ads—-maybe things aren't so rosey on the homefront and she’s feathering her nest until the time is right to take flight. Maybe she wants to know she could make it on her own, as she repeatedly stated when going into her real estate career.

And I really hope I’m wrong because they seem like a sweet couple, but feeling pressured into motherhood and not feeling emotionally supported by her husband might be making her rethink a lot of things in their marriage now; lord knows I’ve seen a few new marriages implode over the immediate stessors of parenting...but even with a kid now, there’s probably tons of great male prospects for her out there if she decided to divorce; she has undeniable chemistry with Whit & Shep to boot. Maybe those possibilities alone give her pause for thought.

I guess what makes me wonder about her mindset/marital status was a time when Cam was once so loudly hellbent on not doing any kinds of cheesy Instagram shilling. I saw her in her own comments once use the hashtag about it #sotacky.

Now she doesn’t even seem to remember or care that she was once so adamant about not pushing random products—-wish she’d at least be real about why she’s suddenly shilling more than anyone else in that entire cast now. I can understand being tempted by offers she can’t refuse, but now it just feels like she’s as fake as the other Bravolebrities with this shit and it leaves us just naturally wondering exactly WHY she finally changed her tune.

[ZaldamoWilder]

6 hours ago, CaliCat said:

Oh dear, ZM. I am one of your biggest fans. We’re both British AND American (but I’m not South African.) You are funny and I love to laugh. 

But, ahem, I work for the government, and I generally try to do a good job and finish stuff, and I don’t want to work with Craig. So would you mind taking that back?

lmaoooooo!!!!!  Sorry gurl!!! cheerfully withdrawn!   how bout if we give his application to the NYC DOT unit in charge of the 30 year closure on the 48th street ramp from the UN to the FDR.  What?  They were getting to it!!       

23 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Plus the seasons he was on, had him looking like a total freak and weirdo! He was greatly ridiculed all around the webz, and for good reason. Renob anyone? His fake euro girlfriend-so awkward to watch them, I had to peak from behind a pillow lol. Didn’t he make an icky comment to Landon last season about her being “one of us”? Ew! What about his brilliant marketing ideas regarding Trav’s reelection bid and that tasteless, misogynistic campaign video. Please, Whitney is a Norman Bates-esque creeper and has the brains to limit his screen exposure now. A little bit of Whitney goes a long way....

Was she a beard?  I'm not sure I was watching if/when this was uncovered but, Whitney likes women?

1 minute ago, lilmarysunshine said:

I sort of got that impression, too.  Though not every man goes crazy over pregnancies as is expected nowadays. My husband certainly didn't go to all of my doctor appointments. We did the "oh-shit-we-need-to-do-this-quick-one-day-lamaze-class." There are zero pictures of either one of us holding pregnant bellies. So I think for some people the bar is set unreasonably high to determine how present a parent is in the pregnancy and birth. And because he's done this a million times for patients, I can see how the medical parts were sort of ho hum for him.

Having said all of that, though .... this is HIS baby and she seemed to be kind of explaining/excusing his lack of enthusiasm in a defensive way. If he works a lot, too, she might really be feeling the grind of doing this baby thing on her own largely.

The way she described this whole thing made me feel sad for her.   I don't know Cam well enough to tell whether she an exaggeratrix or what but the nurse in the room has to ask you to give a damn?  I'm with you girl.   I don't care if he'd seen it a thousand times that day or if his last name was Duggar, when the nurse has to tell you it's ok to help, we have a problem.   I get that she didn't want him to watch (I don't really get that, I want you to see why this push gift needs to be financeable) but even if he's not south of the border, he could still get ice chips, hee hee hoo hoo along with me, something.       

[Adiba]

On 7/22/2018 at 10:04 PM, dosodog said:

"Both used by the same guy" is TRav.

Not respect, but what about compassion? Ashley seems really messed up, physically and mentally. 

I think she's horrible in light of Hilton Head, but I feel she needs help.  I get the same feeling watching Kathryn screaming at Thomas to stop.

I don't like either of them, but I would like to see Kathryn continue with the help she's getting and for Ashley to start getting the help she needs. 

TRAV doesn't help, but he's also not their underlying problems.  

If Kathryn doesn't address her underlying issues, she might repeat or fall back into her bad behavior. 

 

I sometimes ponder the asshattery of the producers of this show.......

 

I agree with TRav being the common denominator and exacerbating traits inherent in both women. I do feel a little compassion for Ashley--because she does look like shit now compared to when she first appeared on the show. But she'll get a lot more from me when she makes the decision to do something about her situation--get help and distance herself from Thomas. She is a thirty-something woman with a healthcare career--perhaps she should know better --ymmv. 

She also lost me when she started in on Kathryn--who Ashley knew was trying to stay sober and be at least a decent, functioning parent to her (and Thomas') children. If Ashley is so in love with Thomas and caresfor his children--wouldn't she wish a sober, functioning mother for them? Calling someone an egg-donor when they are trying to get better? No.

When Ashley begins her redemption arc I'll hop on the bandwagon.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Adiba
spelling

[Natalie68]

On 7/20/2018 at 4:05 PM, Adiba said:

The thing I appreciate about Kathyrn’s sense of style (or lack thereof—it’s a matter of opinion) is that she stands out from the other women, who are beginning to all look very similar to me. She did look a bit overdone and the boobs were a little too prominent for my taste, but she at least wasn’t boring. 

She does have a flair for the dramatic and is willing to take bold chances re fashion!  I find that interesting.  

[Natalie68]

On 7/20/2018 at 9:49 PM, MrsWitter said:

Here’s an article (I think this isn’t necessarily the most reliable source, but it’s the only one I’ve seen):

https://www.fitsnews.com/2018/07/20/amy-feinstein-sc-nursing-board-receives-complaint-about-ashley-jacobs/

 

I don’t know enough about HIPAA to ascertain if what they’re describing is an actual violation, but it’s at the very least trashy and sketchy. So, you know, typical Ashley behavior. The details about the army of supporters she’s trying to amass and the fake accounts are juicy. I’d be curious if anyone here who has experience in the medical field has any thoughts.

That would make my blood boil if MY family were being used by her for photo ops.  I would also file a complaint and let them sort it out.   I would fire her dumb ass if she were my employee.  Immediately.  And kissing one of her patients?  That bugged the shit out of me.  She is nuts.  Seriously.  

[Natalie68]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:38 AM, ZaldamoWilder said:

And neither of the talks makes any sense.    "She could be a heroin addict and I wouldn'tve left her" - to be clear, you're salty because her standards aren't as shitty as yours? 

At first, I really did think it was just some garden variety typical self absorbed dude immaturity.    Nope.   He went as far as to state plainly that he hates her but that isn't all.   This is probably the only thing Craig will ever bring to fruition.   Ya'll? She was his raison d'etre and now she's The Grinch That Stole Feelings.    I laughed when this fool said you let another man touch my cat.  Let's all bow our heads in a moment of giggly silence for the euphemism that actually is.   Because if it isn't?  Bruh, you need real, medical intervention type help.   And a nap. 

Me too.   If I may say so, this is what I think may have gotten conflated with criticism for Cam's outpouring.   For the record @Gem 10, I agree with you.   Of course she's got a right to, maybe even responsibility depending on whom you ask, to talk about her experience and what it has/does felt/feel like.   I was nodding vigorously with not only what she said about breastfeeding and initial bonding but moreso with the idea that not enough moms feel comfortable admitting it.    Say that.  Gem getting back to why I agree with you:  it absolutely does sound (to me) as though every one of her latest thought bubbles begins with "now that I have Palmer...."    If I understand this, what she said is I thought it was unfortunate that Kathryn couldn't see the kids before but now that I'm a mom, I get how truly tragic that is cause there's just some stuff you cannot properly understand until or unless you have children (I didn't imagine this, she said that right?) in which case, a) all that's missing is pressing a lace handkerchief to your forehead at the conclusion of this statement and b)  bitch please.   I pick my (childless) neighbor up on the way to work everyday and one day early last week she apologized for getting to the car late - she was mopping up tears from the news that rescuers had pulled the last baby out of that Thai cave.    So, again if I've understood this correctly, yes, Cam sounds like she's an empath now that she's a mom (which just makes you sound like you were an asshole before).   If I've misunderstood it or missed entirely what she was being criticized for (here) - holla back, I'm still teachable.     

More crazypants.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Craig: It's so sad that a woman that beautiful looks in the mirror and thinks that needs to change, that's just more evidence that the woman I knew is gooooooone wahahahaaaa!          Naomi:  muffucah, it's not that deep.

In one of the last episodes he actually wondered, out loud, in his TH if he was ever going to find a woman who loved him for him.   As though he's capable of walking up to a 22 year old without telling her who his family is and how that could benefit her.    Your ugly, trifling ass can't get a thinking woman under 40 any other way but you resent that she don't have her own money?   LOL!!!   Ahhhh, this dude.   You moved her down here with you, that's what tf sponsorship means.   This sounds way too much like I'm sticking up for Ashley.  Not I.  She's trash and he's a delusional asshole.  I  hope they're very happy together.  

Unpopular opinion alert.   Bail now if you're a Cam fan.   Don't take this to mean I don't see all the drama that Kathryn brought and some of the consequences she hella earned.  I see it.   That having been said, she got respect from me at her continuing ability to make the past the past.  Though I thought her contrition was sincere, I was not here for Cam's tears.  At all.  You spent how many seasons trash talking Kathryn?  

 

Lol.  The irony.  Because who gets pregnant alone?

I'm on a unpopular roll so I might as well keep going lol.   I also refute the assertion that the surprise about Craig sewing/having a machine is gender bias.  I don't think it's shock that a guy would sew more than it's shock that this guy sews.  I don't sew or knit but it seems like something you'd have finish for people to be able to tell you're good at.    Here I made you an unfinished, unstuffed teddy bear for if I ever feel like getting back to it.  Maybe Palmer can finish making it.    Craig is the kind of dude who doesn't understand why you should be rewarded for the effort not just the result.  Um Craig, we stop having everybody gets a trophy races right around 4th grade boo, seek help.  Better still, work for the government.

I apologize for giggling at this, it was serious enough to ward you off conception ever again.  But girl, this image is hilarious!!!  I also wanted you to know you had a sister in fear.  My mom, midwife and best friend were my wranglers and my deal was unless anesthesiology showed up with a generously filled  jumbo needle I wasn't doing shit! (verbatim quote).    Then:  back contractions.  Yadda yadda yadda, there's nothing wrong with only children lmao!

I absolutely love your responses!  You have such a way with the written word.  Frankly, I would love to sit and have drinks while discussing these shows w you 'cause I would be HOWLING!

[Major Bigtime]

Renob... haven’t thought about that band for...... well.... forever.

[RedDelicious]

*hangs head

I thought Renob was funny.  I'll see myself out.................. :)

[Gem 10]

On 7/23/2018 at 1:17 PM, Sun-Bun said:

 3 HOURS AGO,  LILMARYSUNSHINE SAID: 

He said Thomas said something to Patricia about her basically being from New York but acting like she was Southern aristocracy. Not the exact words but essentially saying her Southern identity and gentility are phony.

 

Patricia actually was born in Florida and raised in Virginia, so she is a genuine Southerner. Whitney was raised in Virginia until he went off to university. The fact that she and Whitney have spent a batch of years living/working elsewhere somehow makes T-Rav consider then non-Southerners, which I think is ridiculous. They both are highly educated and well-traveled, but that doesn’t mean they’re not just as authentic and knowledgeable of Southern hospitality, lineage and customs as he is. 

But that’s classic Thomas for you—-he’s gone off on drunken SM tirades before, claiming no one else in the cast is a “true Charlestonian” who  lives there and was born/raised there like him, like it’s some badge of honor or whatever. I think he’s just butthurt that he doesn’t have any more allies on the show.

Losing the support of Pat and Whit was probably a huge blow to his ego. He’d never admit that though; much easier just to dispute their backgrounds and inflate his own family history. Honestly, without his family name/money, he’d be nothing; that’s probably why he digs into Shep about his “mommy’s money” whenever they do fight. Takes one to know one—-yet it looks like Shep is the only one who can still stomach having Trashley around.

 

Well who cares if TomAss is a true Charlestonian.  Every State has a history of something to be proud of and a “ first” of something, not only Charleston.  Is Charleston or his important family proud of Thomas now?  He should hide his head in shame.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Gem 10

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

*hangs head

I thought Renob was funny.  I'll see myself out.................. :)

 I'm sorry to hear that you have an acute case of 15 year old boy. ;)

[SuprSuprElevated]

12 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

Having said all of that, though .... this is HIS baby and she seemed to be kind of explaining/excusing his lack of enthusiasm in a defensive way. If he works a lot, too, she might really be feeling the grind of doing this baby thing on her own largely.

Particularly considering that this was sort of a compromise for Cam.  From what we were told, he was the one that really wanted a kid, her not so much.  He should have jumped through hoops to 'be there' for her in any and every way, imo.

[lezlers]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 2:57 PM, TheFinalRose said:

I've birthed kids and had kidney stones; both made me throw up in pain. Luckily, the folks in the labor and delivery suite got the pain meds in me faster than the doofuses in the ER.  But pain meds made both bearable. I do not for the life of me understand why any woman alive today refuses pain meds for labor and delivery. That's the kind of hero motherhood dynamic I can't wrap my head around. 

 

Amen to this.
 

Pat grew up in a different era, which I believe also contributes at least fifty percent to her ideas of decorum.  If you get a chance to read her book I recommend it. 

OMG YES.  Every woman who successfully labors and delivers a baby leaves with the same prize: a baby.  There's no extra credit for torturing yourself more than necessary in the process.

[Anonysaurus]

On 7/20/2018 at 8:11 PM, MatildaMoody said:

I think that in the beginning, Naomi was in that phase where she threw her cards in with Craig thinking that he would grow up as their relationship progressed. She was also still young enough when she hooked up with him to believe that she could change him. So, she went along with him and covered for him when necessary to be supportive. But, I also think that Craig has been gaslighting her for a while. I keep going back to how pissy he got with her when she decided to leave for an event without him because he was going to be late AGAIN and she didn't want to deal with it. The way he talked down to her and treated her like she was in the wrong for wanting to be on time while he was still dicking around just totally opened my eyes to who he actually was.

I actually think all of the men on this show gaslight the women to an extent - sometimes it even seems unconscious on their parts. A lot of it comes from the fact that these guys have all grown up seeing nothing wrong with being completely patronizing and condescending to women. Now suddenly, women aren't having it and they see themselves as the victims of "vindictive shrews" because they see themselves as such "nice guys" that anyone would want to be in a relationship with. It's unfathomable to them that they could possibly be in the wrong. I mean, JD seemed genuinely surprised that Naomi told him to just be a good husband. He had made up his mind that he was a good husband and that Elizabeth was lucky to be married to him - even though he blew her money on other women and booze while she was taking care of their kids.  Even in the last episode he seemed to think that he should have some say in how she dressed, and he presented it as though it was the most normal thing in the world. 

With Craig and Naomi, I think that Craig truly believes himself to be a nice guy who just needs someone to believe in him and support him. He just seems to forget that Naomi DID support him and defended him and even lied for him in that whole took the bar/didn't take the bar fiasco - to her own detriment. She tried to build a home with him and only asked that he follow through on something. For her the being a lawyer thing probably stuck in her craw the most BECAUSE she felt she had to lie for him. Craig expected her to continue to protect him and she got very bitter about that. It's probably why their relationship got so toxic so fast. 

None of these guys seem to look at the women in their lives as human beings with their own thoughts, opinions, and feelings. They are either supposed to be unwaveringly supportive (Craig), cash machines and baby makers (JD), pawns to pit against another woman they are mad at (Thomas), pieces of ass (Thomas, Shep, Austin), or dolls for them to dress up and parade around (Whitney). And it's so ingrained in them and re-enforced by other women (Patricia, Landon, and until recently, Cameron), that they don't see that there is something very toxic in the way they approach relationships with women. 

I agree with everything you said!

[ZaldamoWilder]

23 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

I absolutely love your responses!  You have such a way with the written word.  Frankly, I would love to sit and have drinks while discussing these shows w you 'cause I would be HOWLING!

Aww, thank ya darl.  Threat or promise?  I mean......I'm in Manhattan everyday.   S'up?   I don't know that we'd even get around to talking about tv.  Ya girl turned 50 a few weeks back and was officially welcomed to play for Team Gives No Fux.    I see from your handle you know.  LOL!  Oh we'd talk alright.

 

[Natalie68]

1 minute ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Aww, thank ya darl.  Threat or promise?  I mean......I'm in Manhattan everyday.   S'up?   I don't know that we'd even get around to talking about tv.  Ya girl turned 50 a few weeks back and was officially welcomed to play for Team Gives No Fux.    I see from your handle you know.  LOL!  Oh we'd talk alright.

 

If I ever get to that side of the US again, I am totally looking you up!  I am *almost* at Fuck You Fifties.  Frankly I may be an early bloomer and I am taking to it quite well!

[Anonysaurus]

On 7/23/2018 at 9:01 AM, Higgins said:

And Thomas went to prison for providing Cocaine to others so......She just abhors it in women?

Yup. She's a hypocrite. And always has been. Someone who was so far up Thomas's butt but only distanced herself from him once the vitriol was turned on her. 

[Anonysaurus]

  "ON 7/20/2018 AT 11:47 AM, VEDAPIERCE SAID:

It didn’t help matters to have Cameron call her a ‘victim’. She’s not a victim. She didn’t get mugged or assaulted. She was in a bad relationship with a manipulative, WEALTHY guy that she thought she could handle and manipulate right back. She had her eyes on his fortune and anyone who doesn’t see that is naive. She also gave crazy as good as she got. Got pregnant. Then got pregnant AGAIN. I get the first mistake, but not the second. Don’t get me started on the boozing and drugging possibly/probably while pregnant. Now Cameron calling her a victim will forever make her feel absolved of any responsibility in that relationship. And that’s a shame. 

Lol.  The irony.  Because who gets pregnant alone?

  ON 7/20/2018 AT 12:09 PM, YOURMOMISEASY SAID:

As I said, it makes sense to me, someone that sews, that he's storing his projects without pillow forms in them.  He said he had 20 when Cam came over.  That would take up a ton of room if he stored them with forms in them.  Also, as I said, he showed Cam a bolster that appeared to display beyond beginner skills.  He's also picking out his fabrics and using more than one in a project.  If he was a woman no one would be making fun of his sewing.

I'm on a unpopular roll so I might as well keep going lol.   I also refute the assertion that the surprise about Craig sewing/having a machine is gender bias.  I don't think it's shock that a guy would sew more than it's shock that this guy sews.  I don't sew or knit but it seems like something you'd have finish for people to be able to tell you're good at.    Here I made you an unfinished, unstuffed teddy bear for if I ever feel like getting back to it.  Maybe Palmer can finish making it.    Craig is the kind of dude who doesn't understand why you should be rewarded for the effort not just the result.  Um Craig, we stop having everybody gets a trophy races right around 4th grade boo, seek help.  Better still, work for the government"

 

Love this answer!

[Chalby]

On 7/19/2018 at 7:13 PM, Sage47 said:

Cameran crying that much over Kathryn was sweet...but shocking too! I think Kathryn IS a victim but not fully. She was a quite “been-around-the-block” 21 year old, going after a rich 50 year old! And she first tried her luck with much-older Shep and Whitney. She was not an innocent flower in all of this. 

3

I think you have this backwards. THEY tried their luck with Kathryn. A 20 year old gal, new to the Charleston scene, doesn't need luck, only a pulse.

[Chalby]

On 7/20/2018 at 4:25 AM, MrsWitter said:

I’m probably being much too practical/innocent, but I thought maybe she had her breasts done because she was unhappy with them after breastfeeding two kids. Granted, I would think you’d wait to do a surgery like that until you’re sure you don’t want any more children.

I’m probably being a fool- she got bigger boobs because she finally had enough money socked away from the show to get them done.

I am in agreement with you. Also, if they are 'new' I think they are fine because a) she did nurse 2 babies b) she's 5'11" and can handle going a bit bigger. She did seem to look naturally bustier though, because of the weight 2 back to back pregnancies bring on.

[Major Bigtime]

I wouldn’t waste money on breast implants if I had two kids to care for, with no idea of whether or not I’d have a steady income in the future.

[zenme]

15 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

I wouldn’t waste money on breast implants if I had two kids to care for, with no idea of whether or not I’d have a steady income in the future.

This is true, Major Bigtime, but I think she's banking on these boobs to find a new daddy for Kensie and Saint. I think she sees them more as an investment. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by zenme

[Higgins]

12 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

I wouldn’t waste money on breast implants if I had two kids to care for, with no idea of whether or not I’d have a steady income in the future.

Hear natural breasts were more attractive IMO. They don't look good now. They look like everyone else's implants. Unnatural and hard.

[ParadoxLost]

I just realized that Craig didn't say he was doing pro bono 20-30 hrs a week.  He said it was his goal. That's never happening.

[scrb]

On 7/25/2018 at 5:13 PM, Major Bigtime said:

I wouldn’t waste money on breast implants if I had two kids to care for, with no idea of whether or not I’d have a steady income in the future.

Though I will never forget that old Dr. 90210 show, with Dr. Rey who always pushed large implants on his patients.

More than once I believe, he had patients in their 20s.  One was a single mother who got other work besides implants.  She kept saying how having two kids just wrecked her body and she lost confidence and so on.

Two children, still in her 20s, but needs several plastic surgery procedures to feel like a woman again.

[biakbiak]

48 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I just realized that Craig didn't say he was doing pro bono 20-30 hrs a week.  He said it was his goal. That's never happening.

Exactly, he has been saying that since before he was sworn in in February, he think it makes him look good but he doesnt actuallydo it.

[Chalby]

On 7/26/2018 at 3:12 AM, zenme said:

This is true, Major Bigtime, but I think she's banking on these boobs to find a new daddy for Kensie and Saint. I think she sees them more as an investment. 

I agree - but they are not an investment to get a new man. Kathryn can do that without changing a thing. Given how much modeling she's been doing, I think the implants are for her instagram career posts.

[Chalby]

On 7/24/2018 at 7:16 AM, ZaldamoWilder said:

The way she described this whole thing made me feel sad for her. 

It made me sad and furious at the same time. Even before she was married, he made it clear he wanted babies. I remember her joking (while engaged) saying, well, maybe I will give him one. Another time she joked that if she didn't bring it up, maybe he'd forget about having kids. So she becomes pregnant and he won't even attend lamaze class with her. Something is wrong here. Why demand a child if you want nothing to do with the process?

[Chalby]

On 7/21/2018 at 4:42 AM, Vandy10 said:

Craig lost me after watching the reunion. I hated the way he went on and on and on about how Naomie was making stuff up to "justify" breaking up with him and getting rid of the best thing that ever happened to her. Here's the thing, Craig-aka-douchebro-extraordinaire: No woman ever needs to justify her reason to you for breaking up, especially one that you're not married to and have no kids with.

I have had a cougar crush on Craig since season one, but everything changed after viewing this reunion. There is something wrong with him, psychologically. He managed to disguise it before, but little glimpses of it would come out (the time he punched Shep's leg with total anger). I found that he bullied Naomi the entire time and if she didn't answer the way he wanted, he'd talk over her and discredit her entire statement. He's emotionally abusive. Can you imagine how bad it gets with no audience? I think he's behaving even worse because he controlled her the first couple of years, and now she refuses to let him determine the storyline. Craig is unbalanced.

[Chalby]

On 7/21/2018 at 6:29 PM, SuprSuprElevated said:

I have always cringed at crying like that, especially when I see no water.  Her eyes were glassy, and I believe she meant what she was saying, but the actual crying jag seemed a bit forced to me.

 

There's an art to crying while wearing false eyelashes. You need to keep blotting the lower lash line, blink while looking upwards. Voila - crying without tears (and therefore not losing an eyelash).

[Chalby]

On 7/22/2018 at 6:27 PM, dosodog said:

I think I'm "one of those".

I support Kathryn getting sober.  I agree that Thomas made things worse.

But I'm in agreement with paragraph 3 from sage47.  Because putting her on a pedestal  (which the cast is doing) isn't always supportive for the long haul.

She's sober.  That led to 50/50 custody.  She's worked hard for it.  

Yet.  She isn't taking responsibility for HER behavior.  She points her finger at everyone but herself for everything.  IMO, that's not healthy. 

There are consequences to actions and behaviors.  I don't think Kathryn should forever be "punished".  I just tire of the revising of history.

 

I am confused. Kathryn has accepted responsibility for her actions and behaviours. Just because she is not sharing her innermost sessions with Bravo doesn't mean her progress shouldn't be validated. Clearly the court's outcome and her random test results speak the loudest for Kathryn taking responsibility.

[FozzyBear]

Oh my god shut up, Craig! Doesn’t he ever stop talking? I could not ever with that guy. I would go crazy too if I had to deal with that.

[ParadoxLost]

They just replayed this getting ready for the new season.  I had forgotten just how maddening Craig was.

He lives in a world where he hasn't lied because deadlines are arbitrary and if he has the opportunity to do whatever it is he lied about before the day he dies then its not a lie.