S02.E10: The Last Ceremony

[Medicine Crow]

55 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Doesn't look like it. When you pause the scene and watch it closely it doesn't even appear that he was shot, just hit with the gun. 

Thank goodness ... he's always the highlight of the story for me.

[whoknowswho]

7 hours ago, LittleRed84 said:

Also, remember the flashback to Fred and Serena pre-Gilead chasing each other to make love? Even then they both recited bible verses. So this seems very customary to them personally, maybe not Gilead required. But the verse he chooses, he likely uses to justify his actions to himself, Serena, and “God”. 

Yes, it seems to be their foreplay. Ugh. You are bang on correct about Fred--he's really no zealot, but he knows how to play one "for the camera". Serena, she believes the biblical stuff, and that's makes her irredeemable to me, because she does it "in the name of God". Oh they are foul, that family...

[Scarlett45]

18 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

I'm puzzled over where the idea that (everyday, non-elite) men shouldn't be participating in the household chores or showing affection to their wives is coming from. I think the Bible generally describes marriage as a partnership and although generally the house is a woman's domain and men and women have different roles, I don't think a Biblical society would disapprove of some crossover between the "spheres" or of any hint of romance; a household should ideally be harmonious and that begins with the marital relationship. But I haven't watched every episode, so is there something I've missed that suggests Gilead subscribes to a colder reading on marital relationships as a whole?

Me too. No where in the principles of Gilead society or in our current Christian patriarchy does it say you HAVE to be a mean asshole to your wife. The man is the leader, and the head of the family (with women being inferior beings), but it is not discouraged to show attention, affection and kindess to your wife-ESPECIALLY if she is in her “proper place” and submissive to you as your helpmeet. That’s a reward for women in this society! They are taught if they are properly submissive to their husbands they will be treated well. Of course Eden is confused. 

[fountain]

I think Nick could be nicer to Eden and fake his interest a bit more for his own safety but I have to respect him for being uncomfortable married to a 15 year-old.  Up until this point he probably was able to go along with things for his own safety but marrying him to a 15 year-old is too much.  He did have sex with her and he now seems disgusted with himself as his treatment if Eden has been a lot worse after the sex.  

The women of Gilead still have it way worse but I don’t know if any men who would be happy to be married and have sex with a 15 year-old. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by fountain

[maxineofarc]

Of course, also the marriage we're seeing the most of is Fred and Serena and I'm pretty sure she hates him.

[Clanstarling]

6 minutes ago, fountain said:

The women of Gilead still have it way worse but I don’t know if any men who would be happy to be married and have sex with a 15 year-old. 

Unfortunately, there are men out there like that. Which could well be why that was developed in Gilead.

[alexvillage]

28 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Unfortunately, there are men out there like that. Which could well be why that was developed in Gilead.

More than it is comfortable for us to admit. It doesn't take a fundamentalist, of any religion, to rationalize having sex with a young teenager, as long they can 'splain whatever they interpret in their religion's book. If it is in there, they marry them and it is all good. 

[jennblevins]

19 hours ago, deSchenke said:

I gather that women in Gilead are not allowed to use the phone?  Or could they if they had their husband's permission?  Is Nick in a position that he could use the phone?

In the book,

Spoiler

Serena Joy uses the “Compu-phone” to order prayer from Soul Scrolls.  Which she also pays for, so I don’t know how that works.  Of course, I don’t remember seeing Soul Scrolls in the show yet.

[Stiggs]

I was on vacation last week, and I knew where I was staying that there was no way I could watch Hulu. I got home on Friday at 8PM after a 10-hour drive, and by 9:01 I was sitting my ass on the couch devouring the episode. It's what got me through the last 2 (verrrrry looooooong) hours of my drive. "Sure you have shooting pains in your back...but you'll get to watch Handmaid's Tale when you get home. If Moira could make it to Canada ON FOOT, you can do this!" :) 

I had read comments and was spoiled, but seriously, nothing could prepare me for the rape scene. Perv 1 and Perv 2 are so gross, and I don't think I breathed until the camera finally left June's face. It was the only time I ever wanted Aunt Lydia to intervene. I wanted her to bust in with her cattle prod and do some damage. 

And I swear I don't remember half of the scene with June and Hannah because I was ugly crying and I think my brain is blocking it out for my own best interests. Gut-wrenching. 

At the beginning of the episode, I sent a friend of a mine a text that said, "I'm not sure, but I think Rory Gilmore just killed a man with her vagina." His reply: "I might have to start watching that damn show." :) 

[LeGrandElephant]

On 6/21/2018 at 9:31 PM, Scarlett45 said:

 I had a different take on Eden’s family. My thought was that they were supporters of the Sons of Jacob before the war, and hard core supporters of the Gilead regime BUT actually did have Love/attraction/genuine affection for each other. Hence Eden believed that if she lived correctly and followed the rules as laid out she would have the same things with her husband. 

I’ve been reading a blog (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/) by a woman who was raised in the homeschool quiverfull movement and then left it as an adult, and this is pretty much how she describes her parents marriage. 

[LeGrandElephant]

I thought this was the season finale and I was so mad at them ending on that cliffhanger! What a relief to come here and find out it’s just that I’ve caught up with real time airing... 

 

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned: interesting how June begs Serena throughout to stop it, not Fred. 

 

I don’t think any women needed to be shown, by June yelling no, that this is all rape. Did they think the men in the audience needed to see that? I’m not against the scene actually, but I wonder about that rationale. Maybe some men did need to see that. But are those the ones who’d be watching this show in the first place?

[marinw]

12 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

But are those the ones who’d be watching this show in the first place?

You bring up a good question. How many men are watching this show? Does anyone know?

[LeGrandElephant]

4 minutes ago, marinw said:

You bring up a good question. How many men are watching this show? Does anyone know?

My boyfriend didn’t get past the first episode, he said it was too depressing. I’m trying to get him to watch it anyway. But he wouldn’t be at all confused that the ceremony is obviously rape. I don’t think it was very subtle up till now. They’ve even repeatedly used the word rape to refer to it. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 6/20/2018 at 10:59 PM, nodorothyparker said:

I feel like I get what the show was going for with the two contrasting rape scenes.   The first with Emily was so blandly uneventful and rote right up to that heart attack that it could be under the dictionary definition of banality of evil.  The second with June is more what people often imagine rape must be with struggling and protesting and being forcibly held down  in a way that only seems to goad the assailant on more.  But same thing nonetheless.  I see the effort to make that point, right down to using the same voice over with both scenes about detaching yourself and bees pollinating flowers.  And maybe the fact that I can see it is the problem.  Don't hit me over the head with it, show.

I'm with everyone else in just being over June being smug and sassy well beyond what she can realistically back up.  Yes, as we've seen being pregnant has given her some respite and a bit of protective camouflage. but her pregnancy's almost up.  Everyone thought she was having the baby that day.  Serena has already made it clear that June's out the door as soon as the placenta pops loose.  And sure, that reality and her own surging hormones are probably doing a number on her.  But especially in taunting Commander Fred, WTF is she doing?  Don't give us scene after scene of June begging people to look out for her baby, caressing her belly and telling it she loves it, and then deliberately antagonizing the people who will have complete control over it after she's out of the house.

The wives' faux birthing continues to be ridiculous because it is ridiculous.  Funny though how quickly Serena went from eye rolling at Janine's birth to going right along with it when it was her turn.  I too love that Lydia clearly has no love for Serena, although that probably only added to the humiliation on Serena's big pile o' grievances that provoked her to try to "induce" labor to finally get a win.  We get that too.  Serena is the most awfulest awful to ever awful.  But even there, I could see the show trying to tie back into what it was attempting to say with the two rape scenes.  That Serena probably expected that to go like every other teeth-gritting "ceremony" and nobody's been making a big fuss about that, so what's one more if it gets the desired ends? (Which probably does explain the twisted reasoning she uses to justify it all in the first place as well as anything else.)  Clearly, she wasn't expecting Fred's pent up rage that he hasn't been able to make use of June for months or that with a new baby in the house he isn't likely to get use of a shiny new handmaid again anytime soon.  

The continued use of the same young actress for Hannah doesn't really bother me as kids mature and age at different rates.  My 12-year-old is the same size as my almost 9-year-old, who often reads older to people who don't know her.  She's a lovely young actress who does a bang-up job with the material she's given, and that's all I really care.  I found her believable as a kid who's been through a huge amount of loss and was then stuffed into this weird unfamiliar life with strangers passing themselves off as her parents.  Apparently Gilead ascribes to the rehoming a pet theory for stolen children and allows them to be renamed regardless of how shiny and new they actually are.  I have no trouble believing Commander Fred may have set up Nick and June to be caught or taken out to remove both of them and their baby that obviously isn't his from his life, but the whole thing as presented doesn't seem to make any sense.

The one part of the episode I actually did find quite affecting was Eden experiencing that first heady rush of being wanted with Isaac and then crying to Nick, first in contrition and then frustration that while she's a married woman who's had properly sanctioned sex. this was her first kiss.  Sure, she definitely has the potential to be dangerous, but she's still 15.  It's hard not to feel for a 15-year-old who's clearly been told this was the greatest thing for her to aspire to and then thoroughly romanticized it only to be crushed over and over by Nick's indifference.  I don't blame Nick for that because we know he never wanted a wife nor sought one out, and certainly not a child bride he has absolutely nothing in common with beyond begrudgingly agreeing that yellow is a nice color for curtains.  Yet at the same time, it might have been better for him not to be his usual taciturn self and be straight with her that he didn't know her well enough to love her and that shouldn't have been immediately expected in an arranged marriage anyway.

I'll be honest, until reading this forum, all of her smizing didn't really register for me.   Now it's all I can see.    Someone upthread mentioned that it's the show's way of demonstrating that June is still in there somewhere and she hasn't forgotten how to exert what little power she has.   Great, but my problem is June is also supposedly cunning and intelligent so as gratifying as it must be for her to have the opportunity to stick it to one of them, I'm frustrated as fuck that that seems to outweigh the hell she must know is coming.   Since when do petty and mean people ever forget about being insulted?   Bear with me if this sounds at all she had it coming-ish, that isn't what I mean.  I mean that by now, she knows exactly what sort of depravity she's dealing with.   Ed Asner is not about to come along and tell her you got spunk kid, these people are psychopaths and she's what 37 weeks pregnant?  They will shove her ass down the stairs, cut her open, get themselves a baby and throw her body in the river.   The cost-benefit analysis doesn't make sense for a woman who's supposed to be smart is all I'm saying.  

Me either.  I binge-watched the series.  Hannah looked to be at least 5 in the pilot.   She's conversational, asking Luke what's happening and for at least a little while, runs on her own steam until June picks her up.   Any younger than that would likely conflict with the specificity with which she remembered June being hit when she was taken.   Some of this is camera work, as they shot her from the floor, but the child in this episode looked to be nearly 8 and even though still baby faced, did seem noticeably taller.   If the time lapse is supposed to be 3 years, it works.  

On 6/25/2018 at 9:35 AM, SourK said:

See, this part I think I actually get. Serena wants desperately to be a mother -- and to do it through having biological children. But, for whatever reason, that's not a gift that was given to her. So, she's living out this morbid fantasy of having all of the experiences of childbirth, which is as close as she can ever come to her dream. In her mind, June would ideally accept that she's been "blessed" with the ability to bear children and want, joyously and wholeheartedly, to share that blessing with Serena, who's been unfairly denied the same opportunity. That's why she's so offended that June's "selfish" and "working an angle" all the time. I genuinely think this birthing ceremony stuff is really sad for everyone involved, even if I think the way the handmaids are treated is way, way worse.

I'd be perfectly content with the faux birthing scenes if they actually did mimic real labor.   Have Rita on one side of the bed slamming Serena in her lower back with a 2 x 4 every 90 seconds, Aunt Lydia on the other, allen-wrenching open her vagina to about 7/8ths and one of the other wives giving her regular teaspoons of sawdust to get that genuine Mojave thirst to kick in.   From an authenticity standpoint? yeah, I'd be good with it.    I shouldn't imply labor feels like that for all, as a generalization, so, you know, mileage.
 

On 6/21/2018 at 11:23 AM, nodorothyparker said:

I've thought this too with some of the choices that are being made.   A part of me actually loves that Nick can't be bothered to go through the motions of giving a single fuck about the child bride forced upon him.  He can't even fake it like nearly everybody else in this story is.  There's something genuine about that that I respect.  But at the same time, can we acknowledge that Nick is only able to behave that way because of the relative privilege he has in this world by virtue of being a man and not one that doesn't have any connections or power of his own?

I'm finding myself surprisingly and increasingly invested in the story of Nick, a man who can't be with the woman he believes himself in love with or the child he was basically cornered into standing stud for and is having dispassionate unwanted sex with a girl he knows is little more than a child to avoid endangering himself or said woman and child, in this seminal feminist work.  At times, the character is reading more sympathetically than most of the female characters who are weekly being subjected to some pretty terrible things.  I don't know if I'm necessarily complaining about it, but at the same time I can't help but wonder if that would still be happening to this degree if the show runner was a woman.  

 

Spot on.  Every episode since she first appeared people have been speculating that Eden must be a time bomb or some kind of mastermind that will be the death of them all.  And maybe she will be.  But all of it is built upon the show throwing her in as an obstacle between Nick and June and her one time tentatively asking June if Nick might possibly be a gender traitor because he hadn't touched her.  In that particular scene, she wasn't making any threats to report him or do anything about it.  She was merely wondering and fearing that it meant that there was something wrong with her and what it might mean.  And to be fair, because Gilead is Gilead that was enough to set the alarm bells off in June's head to tell Nick that he needed to get the fuck over himself and join the official Gilead club of people who have been forced into fucking someone they didn't want to.  In actuality, what we've seen of the character is a sheltered young girl who bought into what Gilead was selling struggling to make sense of all the dysfunction she's seen in the Waterford house and an arranged marriage that's fallen far short of expectations. 

This is not to say that Eden doesn't present a possible danger.  She does if she ever starts talking about some of what's going on in that house with the wrong people.  That very well may happen.  But the fact that we're all waiting for it, anticipating it, rather than seeing a 15-year-old in tears over having technically had sex before her first kiss and being so starved for affection and kindness that she's coming damn close to risking adultery in a society she has to know won't respond well at all to it, is another thing I think can be chalked up to tropes of teenage girls and a male show runner willing to feed into them.  Of course the teenage girl is going to doom an older man over sex.  Of course she can't help being spiteful and conniving and may be plotting because of it.  Because she's a teenage girl.  We've all seen movies about this.

Right but it isn't her out loud thought bubble that serves as the trigger, it's the phrasing.     You said it and Umbelina fleshed it out.... 

On 6/21/2018 at 11:46 AM, Umbelina said:

Eden's casual mention of reporting Nick as a "gender traitor" automatically put her in the threat/danger category.  She could end his life so easily.

I'm glad she's not just a cookie-cutter villain or brainwashed idiot though, she has made me care about her, even in her spoiler role.

As far as kissing Issac?  She's 15.  Even as a religious fanatic who has been brainwashed, she's still 15.  Raging hormones, and a romantic idealistic idea about marriage and being in love makes complete sense to me for Eden.  Her parents, from the little snippets we've heard, and who are probably her main role models?  Seem to have that romance and love.  The mother TELLS the dad to take out the garbage.  "You never touch me" and "You have never kissed me" to me anyway?  Means that's what she's seen in her own house, and what she expected from marriage. 

For her, this marriage was real, and she thought she'd be treasured, have her food complimented, be appreciated for making the house nice, and have a husband, perhaps like her father is to her mother, who gives spontaneous hugs, compliments, looks at her from across the room with loving eyes.

Issac does all of that.  Issac is really her very first crush, first foray into love and affection from a boy/man.  I remember those feelings!  Books and plays have been written about how powerful that is, and yes, in circumstances different, but as bad as Gilead.  Romeo and Juliet anyone?  Love across caste systems, or in war zones, or across racial barriers...it's a pretty powerful thing.  Eden and Issac are seeing each other every day.  He watches her, is attentive to her, appreciates her, gives her compliments, cares about her. 

Would she have looked at him twice if her immature and socially ordered marriage had any of that?  I don't think so.

 

Yes, I absolutely do not blame Nick for any of this.  He's never been a "talky" guy, and his life is a like walking through mine-fields.  He's an Eye, he's in Mayday, he has a baby who will soon be a child that he can't have much to do with.  He's fallen in love with June, a married woman, who he tried but failed to save, a woman living in hell that he can't protect, though he is trying.  He could probably escape Gilead much more easily than most, but he stays, and he fights it from inside.

Now he has this child living with him, he had to have sex with this child.  He doesn't hate her, but he also doesn't know her, or probably even WANT to get to know her, let alone lead her down some fake romantic path that can only end in disaster considering his other commitments. 

Do I wish he'd just make it part of his duty to compliment her twice a day, or give her a brotherly hug once a day?  Yes.  Do I understand that he's overwhelmed and repelled/appalled by even the idea of leading Eden on, beyond the self preservation of sheet hole sex?  I  do.

I wonder if Fred knows Serena arranged it, or how Serena knows as well.  Great catch!  Why didn't I think of that? 

I'm sure he suspects Nick, or possibly the doctor, surely if all the wives know about the helpful impregnating doctor, Fred may know as well?  Nah, that could just be something known among the wives I suppose, and that makes more sense, because the wrong Commander knowing that would mean that doctor would be dead by now.  Curious to think about though.

I'm interested mostly in the world building side of things with this extended show.  It was actually interesting to me to here that the young guy (presumably a former guardian like Nick) was being promoted to Commander.  Also in a previous episode Nick was told he was on the path to becoming a Commander.  I'd always assumed that future Commanders would come from present Commander's children.  An oligarchy of inherited power really, but instead, apparently "earning your way up" still exists in the former USA. 

That wasn't in the book that I recall, so the writers did give us a bit more of a "world" or at least some Gilead clarification after all.  It's actually a pretty large chunk of that.

She wondered out loud if his reluctance meant that he was being disloyal to the Republic.   Treason?  In Gilead?  Them's fightin' words.   And because a 15 year old who may have known no other government knows they are,  I don't see how from that point on Eden isn't viewed as a threat.   She may not understand if/how what she knows will benefit her or even how to use it yet, but she knows she has something.     

On 6/22/2018 at 10:46 AM, Clanstarling said:

That's a good point, I never even thought of that.

I think you were very articulate.

Agreed. Being nice, being kind, is a pretty low bar to achieve, imo.

That Nick doesn't want to have sex with Eden is certainly a strong point in his favor. My biggest complaint is that he hasn't shown her any kindness. I'm not talking about strategy - as means  to keep his relationship with June under wraps, but basic human kindness. So my question has been - is he kind only to women he wants to fuck or who carry his baby? I have not been a particular fan of Eden, but throw the girl a crumb for goodness sake. She'd dine on it as if it were a meal.

The way Nick treats Eden makes sense to me.  I think she's a constant personified reminder of his oppression.  Something he's been somebody used the word privileged above, that works.  He's been privileged enough not to be reminded of throughout.  Remember the scene where he's telling June he doesn't want to sleep with Eden and June says aww, you have to have sex with someone against your will, you poor thing.    He knows how Gilead works. Until his involvement with June it was in an abstract and sort of unaffected way.  Eden is a stark reminder of freedoms and choices he no longer has.   Worse, she doesn't seem to be bothered by a society that he loathes being forced to participate in.  I know, I know, she was raised to be this girl, but she's perfectly capable of suspending the Gilead Citizen of the Year award in favor of her feelings when it suits her.   There isn't supposed to be any touching or kissing outside of procreation attempts, right?  Sooooo there shouldn't be any tears if all you were raised with was Gilead rule.   She has a kind of selective zeal for this shit.  He can't hide his resentment.   I know he should pacify her but dammit when he doesn't even try, I nod along. 

On 6/21/2018 at 9:31 PM, Scarlett45 said:

@ShalimarGirl I had a different take on Eden’s family. My thought was that they were supporters of the Sons of Jacob before the war, and hard core supporters of the Gilead regime BUT actually did have Love/attraction/genuine affection for each other. Hence Eden believed that if she lived correctly and followed the rules as laid out she would have the same things with her husband. 

Eden is 15, she’s been forced to move away from her parents, she has no friends. She is a human being with teenage hormones to boot. Plus Nick isn’t a bad looking guy, and close to her age. If she believes they are together until DEATH, of course she will want him to like her. 

I felt awful for her crying in that manner. Nick could have at least told her that he didn’t love her yet because they just met, but that there wasn’t anything wrong with her and he was sorry she was upset. 

Of course I cannot argue with the writer, but I don’t think that’s how the actors played it. Fred is a SICK FUCK, who said that June didn’t know her place, now he feels guilty?!! I don’t buy it! I think they conspired to do this to June to show her that she was just their property, the possibility of inducing labor was just a benefit. 

You know, I’m not a man, but how does a man keep an erection knowing the woman is screaming and crying and begging him to stop. He must have no soul. 

Ignore me if this was meant to be rhetorical.   I don't have the equipment to offer an expert opinion either.  I will say that judging by how popular a porn category this is, far too many men view desperate objection as the sexually enticing point at which to ramp up their efforts, demonstrate their dominance as it were, as opposed to an opportunity to back off.   I can't say how many times in my life I've heard the term "wasn't a hard no" or  "nonconsensual sex"  and knew that the person saying it (sometimes women) didn't understand that that's rape.   

23 hours ago, dmc said:

Writers feel the need to humanize characters.  A writer is never going to come and call a character they created just evil.  I remember when Seven Years a Slave came out a writer swore that the slave owner loved the woman he raped and tormented.  Fred probably doesn't see himself as abuser and the writer is giving you that perspective not the one of the victim 

You gave that bastard a 5 year credit.   12 Years a Slave.  ;)  As twisted as it sounds, I agree with that writer.   Fassbender's character's torment was that she refused to love him back.  Or at all.  

I thought I quoted somebody who mentioned this but I guess not.   The greenhouse scene where Serena comes up with the "labor induction" plan.   I get that she outpaces him as a mastermind but when he understands what she's suggesting it makes clear that he hadn't gotten there and wouldnt've without her.    The way he looked at her once he got it made me shudder.  

[SpitfireJess]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

You bring up a good question. How many men are watching this show? Does anyone know?

Hi all! Long time lurker, finally decided to create an account.

 

My husband watches, but I've noticed he's one of a few out of all of my married friends.  I don't think it's something he would have watched had I not sat him down during S1 and forced him to watch it with me, though.  

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, LeGrandElephant said:

I don’t think any women needed to be shown, by June yelling no, that this is all rape. Did they think the men in the audience needed to see that? I’m not against the scene actually, but I wonder about that rationale. Maybe some men did need to see that. But are those the ones who’d be watching this show in the first place?

As a woman I loved that she finally got a chance to show her true feelings and yell her objections.

That didn't mean that "I needed her to yell rape for it to be real."  It meant that I LOVED Fred and Serena having to hear that, I loved that her true feelings, not her programmed flower/bee creepy indoctrination, finally came out when it was happening.  Out loud.

In real life I don't know a single person that watches this, male or female.

[LeGrandElephant]

14 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

As a woman I loved that she finally got a chance to show her true feelings and yell her objections.

I agree with that - I liked the scene for that reason. I was just commenting on the rationale given in the article by the writer. I liked that June got to fight back, even if it was unsuccessful, and I liked that Serena had to see that, even though I didn’t think that Fred or Serena seemed remorseful afterwards. 

[mamadrama]

18 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

 

In real life I don't know a single person that watches this, male or female.

You should roadtrip over to my small, isolated, totally conservative mountain town for the finale. There are approximately 7 of us here who watch the show and even though some of us have never met in "real" life, we're all gathering at my house to watch the last episode together. We're wearing our Wife teal or Handmaid red outfits and eating/drinking "red" food (red velvet cake, bloody marys, strawberries, red wine, watermelon, etc.)

[tennisgurl]

Finally got to watch the episode, and it was the emotional kick to the nuts that I expected it to be. And not the good, Emily kind of kick to the nuts! Poor, poor June. Its like the universe stuck the words Kick Me on her back, and everyone's been doing it ever since. She gets an extra rape from the horrible Waterfords, sees her daughter only to have her torn away, and now she is stuck alone in the cold in the middle of nowhere, about to give birth, after watching her kind of boyfriend getting shot and dragged away by the secret police. Even by Gilead standards, thats a shitty week. 

I feel really badly for both Eden and Nick in this whole messed up situation. Sometimes I do wish he could show her some more interest, just throw this poor brainwashed girl a bone, but...shes a child, and its hard to blame him for not being thrilled to kiss his child bride that was forced on him. Really, its just more of Gilead being both stupid and monstrous. Instead of forcing people together, they could just have most everyone get married and have kids like normal people, as Eden would probably be thrilled to do with the security guy, and vice versa. I hope Nick isnt dead, he has really grown on me this season, and poor June just wont be able to lose someone else at this point. Of course, it doesn't look good for him now, even if he survived the gun shot, Of course, Gilead being The Worst, he might wish that he would have just died of a bullet to the gut, as opposed to the other shit they do to people who break rules. Unless his Eye friends help out, or even May Day. 

Finding out that a guy got promoted to Commander because he got his Wife pregnant certainly raises a lot of questions, doesn't it? Is this how its always been, or is this more recent? Are more men actually getting women pregnant now? Certainly explains the look on Waterfords face when he saw the guy, beyond just jealousy. If, in this fertility based society, men can be promoted for knocking up their wives, where does that leave him and Serena? Or even just him, if anyone grows a brain and realizes that men can shot blanks as much as women can be barren. And, its always weird to me thinking of people here actually having sex as husband and wife without some creepy rape ritual. Yeah it happens, but I guess it happens enough for this guy to get his wife pregnant. Kind of makes me wonder what their lives are like. 

Oh poor little Hannah is so confused and scared! The poor kid was probably told that her parents were evil sinners who never wanted her, and is now stuck with some other assholes who, best thing you can say about them is that they only hit her twice. At least the Martha is there to look out for her, the way June was begging Rita to look out for her future kid. That was just heartbreaking, with poor Hannah and June crying and holding each other while Hannah is torn away. Just brutal. 

Fuck Serena and fuck Fred, those pieces of shit. Because their usual rape ceremonies arent bad enough, they throw in an extra, even more brutal rape, just so they can steal Junes baby even faster. There isnt a level of hell with enough pichforks for them. I feel for a decent number of the people stuck in Gilead, as I can only assume that even some of the more privileged people arent thrilled about this and might even feel trapped (like the Wife who tried to protect Emily way back when, or the doctor fan boying about the doctor turned Martha) even if they arent as abused as others are, but these two are just awful. Fred wanted this, and even while Serena might not have wanted it to be this bad, she did still support the violent uprising that lead to it, and the murders of congress that started all of this, so she was hardly an innocent from day one. 

It was nice seeing Donnie from Orphan Black again, as the doctor who checks up on June. He has a very kind, warm presence about him, even in the midst of the horrors. I always remember the first time we met him, when he was the first person who treated June with any decency that we saw, and he even asked June if she wanted to be artificially inseminated to help make her life easier. I dont know what all he feels about Gilead, but he seems like he is as decent a person you can be while being in the system. It was also cute seeing how happy Jeannine was for June giving birth, and that Moira got out. Its nice to get a few little moments of happiness in the midst of everything. 

I really hope that June really does manage to escape this time, reunite with Moira and Luke, and can start working with May Day or the American government (or are they the same?) with her knowledge of Gilead to help take them down.

[marinw]

34 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Or even just him, if anyone grows a brain and realizes that men can shot blanks as much as women can be barren

I wonder if there are countries in the world of THT where all the men are tested for the quality and abundance of their sperm. Those men who have lots of good swimmers are pressured or paid to make donations to a sperm bank. 

Declineing sperm counts are a thing that is happening now:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jul/29/infertility-crisis-sperm-counts-halved

[Umbelina]

24 minutes ago, marinw said:

I wonder if there are countries in the world of THT where all the men are tested for the quality and abundance of their sperm. Those men who have lots of good swimmers are pressured or paid to make donations to a sperm bank. 

Declineing sperm counts are a thing that is happening now:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jul/29/infertility-crisis-sperm-counts-halved

Of course there are.  The CIA guy said what's left of the USA is doing that, and certainly no other countries in the world have implemented Gilead's solutions.

It's logical to assume they are working on infertility every way possible in other countries.  Sperm testing is 1/2 the equation. 

[Ragingviolet]

On 6/20/2018 at 8:57 PM, LaChavalina said:

 

I did think it was realistic and powerful to see June shut down after the sexual assault happened... but that lasts what, five minutes? Then she's with her daughter and is on to another plot point. I will be incredibly disappointed if the show behaves as if she moves on from the after-effects of this incident so quickly.

 

I don't think it was unrealistic that she "moved on" because I don't think she did.  People who go through multiple traumas at once often don't have time to process them one at a time.  Your mind becomes overwhelmed by each new incident and you go into survival mode.

[mamadrama]

15 minutes ago, Ragingviolet said:

I don't think it was unrealistic that she "moved on" because I don't think she did.  People who go through multiple traumas at once often don't have time to process them one at a time.  Your mind becomes overwhelmed by each new incident and you go into survival mode.

That makes sense in real life, but in the show world things happen and are then never referenced, or only partially referenced again. Things just seemed to be happening to get the characters from point A to point B without any real sense of plot cohesiveness or being true to the character. 

[Ragingviolet]

1 minute ago, mamadrama said:

That makes sense in real life, but in the show world things happen and are then never referenced, or only partially referenced again. Things just seemed to be happening to get the characters from point A to point B without any real sense of plot cohesiveness or being true to the character. 

So you are saying the rape didn't further the plot?

[WearyTraveler]

One thing we haven't discussed yet is the title of the episode: why "The Last Ceremony"?

Does it refer to June's rape?  Are we meant to believe that this time was the last time she will have to endure it? Or is that too much to hope for?

Edited June 27, 2018 by WearyTraveler

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, WearyTraveler said:

One thing we haven't discussed yet is the title of the episode: why "The Last Ceremony"?

Does it refer to June's rape?  Are we meant to believe that this time was the last time she will have to endure it? Or is that too much to hope for?

 

I think it's the last rape for June at the hands of the Waterfords, since Serena wants her gone as soon as the baby is born.

Edited June 27, 2018 by chocolatine

[bijoux]

It also definitely refers to the Commander who croaked at the beginning. If only they’d all finish the same way.

[WearyTraveler]

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I think it's the last rape for June at the hands of the Waterfords, since Serena wants her gone as soon as the baby is born.

That's the thing, though; I'm trying to figure out what that would mean for future episodes.  I don't think the show will have June with a different couple or the Waterfords with someone other than June, so, where do we go from here?  Is June going to escape? 

[Earlwoode]

On 6/20/2018 at 6:14 AM, chocolatine said:

I didn't understand why the people who shot Nick didn't go inside to look for June. Isn't that why they came in the first place? She is the precious commodity, not him. At any rate, Fred knows where she is because he gave Nick the address, so if she and Nick don't come back within three hours, won't he just send someone else for her or go get her himself?

A lot on this show makes no sense.  Fred is meant to be all powerful in relation to Serena but he’s afraid she’ll find out he sent June to see her daughter?  If he organized the reunion, why was it clandestine?  Whom did he organize it with to bring the child? I can’t see the Martha agreeing to it without anyone else’s approval.  She’d be risking her life.  Why did that patrol turn up at an empty house in the middle of nowhere at just the right moment?  They are really straining my credulity - writing is becoming very silly.

[McKinley]

We'll see if the writers address the situation in any more detail going forward, but here is how I am currently understanding what happened in the closing scenes.  Because of the super-secret nature of the meeting (Fred turned to Nick to handle this; Nick is the person Fred trusts most to keep his secrets, such as driving him to Jezebels), I think it's most likely that Fred arranged the meeting by calling in a favor with Hannah's "father" (who also turned to the subordinate he trusts most).  

The area where they were sending them had known, regular Guardian patrols, so they had a small window between such patrols to hold the meeting and get out unseen.   Fred and Hannah's "father" did not want to draw attention by changing the Guardian patrols or alerting the Guardians that people would be in the area.   Thus the admonition not to be seen.   But they failed to get out without being spotted by the patrol. 

The patrol intended to arrest Nick and take him for questioning.  He fought back but got knocked out and thrown into the van.  The patrol saw the other car leave the site and were going to pursue it.  That's why they did not immediately search the house.  They could return to search the house afterwards, because if anyone else was at the house, they had nowhere to go in this remote location in the dead of winter without Nick's car.  If they tried to make their way on foot, they could be easily tracked in the snow.

Why would Fred feel the need to hide this plan from Serena, since he is the head of household and has final say relating to everyone within it?  We've seen him do several favors for June behind Serena's back.  I think that most likely the Commanders are not supposed to have any contact with the Handmaids outside of the Ceremony (and ritualized meetings, such as when they all stood in the foyer to welcome the Commander home from the hospital).  It is the Wife's job to manage the Handmaid.  So everything about the Commander and June's relationship - not just the extra-Ceremony sex - is breaking the rules.  Fred probably gets off on all of the clandestine interactions with June as much as the sex with her. 

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

A lot on this show makes no sense.  Fred is meant to be all powerful in relation to Serena but he’s afraid she’ll find out he sent June to see her daughter?  If he organized the reunion, why was it clandestine?  Whom did he organize it with to bring the child? I can’t see the Martha agreeing to it without anyone else’s approval.  She’d be risking her life.  Why did that patrol turn up at an empty house in the middle of nowhere at just the right moment?  They are really straining my credulity - writing is becoming very silly.

Fred keeps a lot from Serena.  Also, that other wife testified and got her Commander-husband's hand cut off.

Yes, this show is MUCH too short on details, which is making it difficult to care.

3 hours ago, McKinley said:

We'll see if the writers address the situation in any more detail going forward, but here is how I am currently understanding what happened in the closing scenes.  Because of the super-secret nature of the meeting (Fred turned to Nick to handle this; Nick is the person Fred trusts most to keep his secrets, such as driving him to Jezebels), I think it's most likely that Fred arranged the meeting by calling in a favor with Hannah's "father" (who also turned to the subordinate he trusts most).  

The area where they were sending them had known, regular Guardian patrols, so they had a small window between such patrols to hold the meeting and get out unseen.   Fred and Hannah's "father" did not want to draw attention by changing the Guardian patrols or alerting the Guardians that people would be in the area.   Thus the admonition not to be seen.   But they failed to get out without being spotted by the patrol. 

The patrol intended to arrest Nick and take him for questioning.  He fought back but got knocked out and thrown into the van.  The patrol saw the other car leave the site and were going to pursue it.  That's why they did not immediately search the house.  They could return to search the house afterwards, because if anyone else was at the house, they had nowhere to go in this remote location in the dead of winter without Nick's car.  If they tried to make their way on foot, they could be easily tracked in the snow.

Why would Fred feel the need to hide this plan from Serena, since he is the head of household and has final say relating to everyone within it?  We've seen him do several favors for June behind Serena's back.  I think that most likely the Commanders are not supposed to have any contact with the Handmaids outside of the Ceremony (and ritualized meetings, such as when they all stood in the foyer to welcome the Commander home from the hospital).  It is the Wife's job to manage the Handmaid.  So everything about the Commander and June's relationship - not just the extra-Ceremony sex - is breaking the rules.  Fred probably gets off on all of the clandestine interactions with June as much as the sex with her. 

Yes to all of that.

Also, Fred seems to hate Gilead's rules, and breaks them all the time.  He enjoys his personal power, but he's basically committing slow-motion suicide here with all the risks he takes and rules he breaks.

In fifties speak?  He's "cruisin' for a bruisin" bit time. 

[Earlwoode]

We'll see if the writers address the situation in any more detail going forward, but here is how I am currently understanding what happened in the closing scenes.  Because of the super-secret nature of the meeting (Fred turned to Nick to handle this; Nick is the person Fred trusts most to keep his secrets, such as driving him to Jezebels), I think it's most likely that Fred arranged the meeting by calling in a favor with Hannah's "father" (who also turned to the subordinate he trusts most).  

The area where they were sending them had known, regular Guardian patrols, so they had a small window between such patrols to hold the meeting and get out unseen.   Fred and Hannah's "father" did not want to draw attention by changing the Guardian patrols or alerting the Guardians that people would be in the area.   Thus the admonition not to be seen.   But they failed to get out without being spotted by the patrol. 

The patrol intended to arrest Nick and take him for questioning.  He fought back but got knocked out and thrown into the van.  The patrol saw the other car leave the site and were going to pursue it.  That's why they did not immediately search the house.  They could return to search the house afterwards, because if anyone else was at the house, they had nowhere to go in this remote location in the dead of winter without Nick's car.  If they tried to make their way on foot, they could be easily tracked in the snow.

Why would Fred feel the need to hide this plan from Serena, since he is the head of household and has final say relating to everyone within it?  We've seen him do several favors for June behind Serena's back.  I think that most likely the Commanders are not supposed to have any contact with the Handmaids outside of the Ceremony (and ritualized meetings, such as when they all stood in the foyer to welcome the Commander home from the hospital).  It is the Wife's job to manage the Handmaid.  So everything about the Commander and June's relationship - not just the extra-Ceremony sex - is breaking the rules.  Fred probably gets off on all of the clandestine interactions with June as much as the sex with her. 

 

How in heaven’s name are we supposed to infer all that from the scant details we are given?  And I've never understood Nick’s role as an Eye.  What, exactly, is he supposed to do? It seems to me they gave him that role and then never developed it because they don’t know what to do with it.  It’s a total mystery to me why it was even mentioned at all since it has no relevance to the plot. 

[mamadrama]

30 minutes ago, Earlwoode said:

We'll see if the writers address the situation in any more detail going forward, but here is how I am currently understanding what happened in the closing scenes.  Because of the super-secret nature of the meeting (Fred turned to Nick to handle this; Nick is the person Fred trusts most to keep his secrets, such as driving him to Jezebels), I think it's most likely that Fred arranged the meeting by calling in a favor with Hannah's "father" (who also turned to the subordinate he trusts most).  

The area where they were sending them had known, regular Guardian patrols, so they had a small window between such patrols to hold the meeting and get out unseen.   Fred and Hannah's "father" did not want to draw attention by changing the Guardian patrols or alerting the Guardians that people would be in the area.   Thus the admonition not to be seen.   But they failed to get out without being spotted by the patrol. 

The patrol intended to arrest Nick and take him for questioning.  He fought back but got knocked out and thrown into the van.  The patrol saw the other car leave the site and were going to pursue it.  That's why they did not immediately search the house.  They could return to search the house afterwards, because if anyone else was at the house, they had nowhere to go in this remote location in the dead of winter without Nick's car.  If they tried to make their way on foot, they could be easily tracked in the snow.

Why would Fred feel the need to hide this plan from Serena, since he is the head of household and has final say relating to everyone within it?  We've seen him do several favors for June behind Serena's back.  I think that most likely the Commanders are not supposed to have any contact with the Handmaids outside of the Ceremony (and ritualized meetings, such as when they all stood in the foyer to welcome the Commander home from the hospital).  It is the Wife's job to manage the Handmaid.  So everything about the Commander and June's relationship - not just the extra-Ceremony sex - is breaking the rules.  Fred probably gets off on all of the clandestine interactions with June as much as the sex with her. 

 

How in heaven’s name are we supposed to infer all that from the scant details we are given?  And I've never understood Nick’s role as an Eye.  What, exactly, is he supposed to do? It seems to me they gave him that role and then never developed it because they don’t know what to do with it.  It’s a total mystery to me why it was even mentioned at all since it has no relevance to the plot. 

The next episode will shed some light on the whole rendezvous thing, so that should help. 

And yeah, the whole "Nick is an Eye" thing. I feel like that might be another dropped storyline. We haven't seen Nick do much, if anything, with this. (I would argue, too, that he doesn't do much with Mayday either. Yes, he got June out for a little while, but what else?) Nick's role as an Eye and as a member of Mayday has been so underutilized that I sometimes forget he's a part of either. 

[McKinley]

3 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

How in heaven’s name are we supposed to infer all that from the scant details we are given?  And I've never understood Nick’s role as an Eye.  What, exactly, is he supposed to do? It seems to me they gave him that role and then never developed it because they don’t know what to do with it.  It’s a total mystery to me why it was even mentioned at all since it has no relevance to the plot. 

There are only a few possibilities for how the meeting was set up.  (1) Fred and Hannah's "father" set it up together.  (2) Fred is in a position of power over Hannah's "father" and demanded that he acquiesce to the meeting.  (3) Fred used his power to order Hannah and her Martha be brought to the meeting without Hannah's "father" knowledge/approval.  We are shown that the meeting is secret - Nick is told to make sure they are not seen, Hannah's driver is equally anxious about them being caught.  That rules out options 2 and 3.  Fred would not have wanted to sign any orders recording the meeting, and he would not have wanted anyone to know about it that he could not trust to keep it secret.  The only way he could trust Hannah's "father" to keep it quiet on his end is if they were equally involved.  Hannah's "father" would have had no reason to agree to such a risky meeting that posed no benefit to him; thus, Fred must have been able to compel him in some unofficial way = by calling in  a favor.

Re the Guardian patrols, I rewatched and I take that part back.  I originally thought there was no way for Hannah's driver to know that they had to get out of there at that particular moment unless the patrol was predictable.  But Hannah's driver had a radio that we could hear squawking in the background a couple of times.  So either he had a lookout stationed to warn him if a Guardian patrol was headed their way, or more likely he was simply monitoring the Guardian's communications to listen for any indication that a patrol was in their area.  When he realized that a patrol was coming their way, he got them moving.

The part about the Guardians' reaction to Nick is more speculative, but unless they were hurrying off to try to pursue Hannah's car, there is really no reason to explain why they would not have searched and secured the house.  

As for the part about the Commanders not to have contact with the Handmaids outside of the Ceremony, I drew that conclusion based on how other historic and contemporary patriarchal societies have handled the setup of households, combined with things that we've seen in the show.  Serena is responsible for the home, and thus for managing the female servants.  Nothing good could potentially come from Commanders and Handmaids having any type of relationship outside of the Ceremony, and given how the men regard the women, a Commander couldn't have any legitimate interest in a Handmaid outside of the Ceremony.  She can't be his intellectual equal, so there's not going to be any interesting conversation; and lust is a sin so the Commanders should not be placed in a position where they could be tempted.  June's visits to Fred's study certainly seemed secretive, as were his visits to her room.  

ETA:  It just occurred to me that Fred told Nick to be back within 3 hours, so the drive could have taken over an hour each way and Nick was able to make the drive without passing through any official checkpoints?  That seems surprising.

Edited June 28, 2018 by McKinley

[GinnyMars]

Something nice: little Hannah's doll and martha both look like her. I have to say I was quite surprised about the doll...

[AngelaHunter]

On 6/26/2018 at 9:29 AM, Clanstarling said:

Unfortunately, there are men out there like that.

Oh, the news shows there are a huge number of men - who now have the convenience of the internet to reel in their prey -  who will go to any lengths to molest and have sex with young girls  - way younger than 15.

On 6/26/2018 at 10:25 PM, WearyTraveler said:

Are we meant to believe that this time was the last time she will have to endure it? Or is that too much to hope for?

I really hope so, but did Serena really buy that her disgusting hubby was raping June for the noble purpose of "bringing the baby" more quickly? Serena is an intelligent, educated woman who used to be out in the world. She can't possibly believe old wives' tales  and must know it was only an excuse for that dirtbag to get his rocks off. Or maybe she just doesn't want another whuppin'.

[Umbelina]

5 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Oh, the news shows there are a huge number of men - who now have the convenience of the internet to reel in their prey -  who will go to any lengths to molest and have sex with young girls  - way younger than 15.

I really hope so, but did Serena really buy that her disgusting hubby was raping June for the noble purpose of "bringing the baby" more quickly? Serena is an intelligent, educated woman who used to be out in the world. She can't possibly believe old wives' tales  and must know it was only an excuse for that dirtbag to get his rocks off. Or maybe she just doesn't want another whuppin'.

Yes, young girls have always been a thing for old and older men.  They were the "Viagra" before the drug came along, at least that was the excuse in many cultures, and also under the table excuse here.

Semen on the cervix is a thing, it's real, not a wive's tale.

[AngelaHunter]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Semen on the cervix is a thing, it's real, not a wive's tale.

I'm no doctor, but I still think the Commander used that primarily as an excuse for rape. There is no reason for him to want to hurry the birth. I doubt he gives a rat's ass about what Serena wants, which is to get rid of June as soon as possible. His conceding to her wishes apply only when those wishes coincide with something he wants.

 

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, young girls have always been a thing for old and older men.

Pedophiles are eternal.

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I'm no doctor, but I still think the Commander used that primarily as an excuse for rape. There is no reason for him to want to hurry the birth. I doubt he gives a rat's ass about what Serena wants, which is to get rid of June as soon as possible. His conceding to her wishes apply only when those wishes coincide with something he wants.

 

Pedophiles are eternal.

I didn't say he didn't.  I simply said semen on a cervix is not an "old wive's tale" although I thought it was until I read multiple links in this thread and others about it.

[NoSpam]

49 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, young girls have always been a thing for old and older men.  They were the "Viagra" before the drug came along, at least that was the excuse in many cultures, and also under the table excuse here.

 

They've even been claimed to cure syphilis at various points in history.

[Umbelina]

19 minutes ago, NoSpam said:

They've even been claimed to cure syphilis at various points in history.

Still are being claimed to cure AIDS in places in Africa, or at least virgins are, and those are usually young girls.

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Still are being claimed to cure AIDS in places in Africa, or at least virgins are, and those are usually young girls.

Oh, dear God. ☹️

[Umbelina]

43 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Oh, dear God. ☹️

This is even creepier.  This AIDS pill's price has skyrocketed.  It happened to come across my Facebook page today.

This gave me a shock before coffee.

Anyway, article is here if interested.  https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/06/30/624045995/rising-cost-of-prep-a-pill-that-prevents-hiv-pushes-it-out-of-reach-for-many

[watchTV]

On 6/20/2018 at 9:46 PM, Callaphera said:

So I feel like this show has changed from smart commentary to a bloody soap opera. The melodrama and over the top ridiculousness of the last half of the episode was eye-rolling. From the moment June spat at the Commander that he would never know what it was like to have his own child, it took a sharp turn into Days of our Lives territory. The melodrama of a slam! bang! Eden cheating on Nick while he... doesn't care and she sobs like the fourteen year old she is. June getting to see Hannah (in what fucking world where Gilead is a thing would that happen? It wouldn't, that's the problem). The three fucking times June retied Hannah's cape while crying and hugging her. The ending with Nick getting dragged off and June left in the wilderness. Hey, who wants to bet she's going to go into labour there? Anyone? No? Yeah, thought it was a sucker bet.

I know that episodes before season finales are there to set up the pieces for the big bang finish to the season. But this was... stupid and not in the realm of possibility and because of that, this show has lost all of its impact. But hey, lots of close-ups of June's face and pointless long shots where people are just breathing so yay?

I know this was weeks ago but I just binged on this series. Your commentary is on point. The show creates bizaare drama. The most ridiculous scene was June antagonizing Fred that the baby isn't his own. That was after she asks aunt Lydia to protect it. She said if Fred could hurt a woman then he could hurt a child. Why would you then give him a reason to resent it?

There are other instances of nonsense like June smirking at Serena after the false alarm. This woman just framed another commander and June knows what she's capable of because of their writing collaboration. SJ could make her situation much worst than just kicking her out. And yes, more nonsense drama of allowing June to not just see Hannah but also interact with her. For what? So June could make Hannah remember her but not be able to stay? She just caused that child more pain.

The worst of this is the rape scene. Hulu wants to be HBO on steroids and took it too far. Raping a pregnant woman??? Really!? It also felt forced because SJ was showing some signs of humanity.

[Baltimore Betty]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 2:16 AM, Umbelina said:

This is even creepier.  This AIDS pill's price has skyrocketed.  It happened to come across my Facebook page today.

This gave me a shock before coffee.

Anyway, article is here if interested.  https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/06/30/624045995/rising-cost-of-prep-a-pill-that-prevents-hiv-pushes-it-out-of-reach-for-many

OMG, you saw that too! (I was not clever enough to post the photo, thanks for doing that) What the what???!!!  Some marketing department has a real sense of humor, huh?

[Umbelina]

8 hours ago, watchTV said:

I know this was weeks ago but I just binged on this series. Your commentary is on point. The show creates bizaare drama. The most ridiculous scene was June antagonizing Fred that the baby isn't his own. That was after she asks aunt Lydia to protect it. She said if Fred could hurt a woman then he could hurt a child. Why would you then give him a reason to resent it?

There are other instances of nonsense like June smirking at Serena after the false alarm. This woman just framed another commander and June knows what she's capable of because of their writing collaboration. SJ could make her situation much worst than just kicking her out. And yes, more nonsense drama of allowing June to not just see Hannah but also interact with her. For what? So June could make Hannah remember her but not be able to stay? She just caused that child more pain.

The worst of this is the rape scene. Hulu wants to be HBO on steroids and took it too far. Raping a pregnant woman??? Really!? It also felt forced because SJ was showing some signs of humanity.

Seriously good points, especially when you put them all together like that.

The writers need to get their shit together and write a complete arc of stories, not just stand alone "wows."

----

To the next quote, PTV is messing up for me and I can't post beneath it now:

I think that's just the name of the company.  Gilead.  Gilead Sciences makes Truvada, a medicine known generically as "pre-exposure prophylaxis," or PrEP. Consistent, daily doses of the drug are thought to reduce the risk of getting HIV from sex by more than 90 percent.

4 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

OMG, you saw that too! (I was not clever enough to post the photo, thanks for doing that) What the what???!!!  Some marketing department has a real sense of humor, huh?

Edited July 2, 2018 by Umbelina

[mamadrama]

8 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

OMG, you saw that too! (I was not clever enough to post the photo, thanks for doing that) What the what???!!!  Some marketing department has a real sense of humor, huh?

That company has been around for a long time, unfortunately. It WOULD be funny if it was a play on "our" Gilead but, alas, it's not.

[secnarf]

For those of us who knew "Gilead" as the name of the drug company before reading/watching THT, it was more alarming seeing a fictional country called the same name as a drug company!

Although the term Gilead comes from the bible...which is admittedly an odd place for a drug company to take their name from.

[dleighg]

well, Balm of Gilead essentially means "miracle potion," so.....

[Umbelina]

32 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

That company has been around for a long time, unfortunately. It WOULD be funny if it was a play on "our" Gilead but, alas, it's not.

Yeah, I never thought it had any relation to Atwood's Gilead.  It was just a shock, in the middle of horrifying news stories that parallel this show to see a giant GILEAD pill pop up.

23 minutes ago, dleighg said:

well, Balm of Gilead essentially means "miracle potion," so.....

I didn't know that!  Interesting.

31 minutes ago, secnarf said:

For those of us who knew "Gilead" as the name of the drug company before reading/watching THT, it was more alarming seeing a fictional country called the same name as a drug company!

Although the term Gilead comes from the bible...which is admittedly an odd place for a drug company to take their name from.

Well, Atwood published her book  five years before GILEAD the drug company was founded.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Umbelina
published instead of wrote