Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[PAForrest]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I did not know that.  About someone getting pissed about it. I don't blame whoever it was.  Whenever I hear the prank stories, I would think, that sounds so annoying, I would probably get mad. And then since they're famous and I'm presumably just a character actor (I guess in my made up fantasy scenario) I would be the one in the wrong.  

I think I heard something about Katie Cassidy not really appreciating the pranks but at least getting through it.

I didn't hear about Katie, but I can see it and wouldn't blame her. The one question I despise at conventions, and it ALWAYS comes up, is about pranks. Not a fan of the question or the activity.

The actor who was not happy was the guy who played Roland or Ronald(?) in Nightshifter. I always think about that whenever I see him show up on something else.

I think all actors cut up at times on sets - there wouldn't be blooper reels if they didn't. But when it starts costing the studio money because it delays shooting, usually they step in and say something.

[Aeryn13]

Couple years back there was some noise about Jared being late to set soo much the studio threatened to dock his pay if that kept on. I mean it`s costly if production is halted and delayed. I didn`t know if there was truth to it or not but Jim Beaver around that time made a very dry joke at a convention of Jared being on time for once as something extraordinary happening on set. 

I think he probably got a talking to by his management and some higher ups and it must have abated. Otherwise the show wouldn`t have gone on for so many more years.    

[Katy M]

38 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Couple years back there was some noise about Jared being late to set soo much the studio threatened to dock his pay if that kept on. I mean it`s costly if production is halted and delayed.

It's also inconsiderate.  Yeah, we've all been late for something at some point because stuff happens.  But, when you're late all the time (and like you I don't know if there's any truth to this), then that's just showing a disregard for others' time and it's selfish.  The crew and other actors want to get home at the end of the day also.

[ahrtee]

26 minutes ago, LurkingSmurf said:

Clearly I struck a nerve here, although that wasn't my intention - there's a reason I put it in the Unpopular Opinions thread. It's just my opinion, but not everyone is gonna think Jensen is the end-all; it's going to be tough for some fans when he's opened up to criticism outside the Supernatural bubble.

I'm not saying he's fat but like it or not, from Season 4 on  (where he was what, 30?) he's got a dadbod and definitely doesn't have any muscle definition, at least compared to your average gym-goer. I'm guessing that's why fans are always doing manips where it's his head on a ripped guy.

YMMV but yeah, unless the role otherwise calls for it, it's part of his job to be in shape. His costar was able to do it well enough. If he wants to break into more big-budget roles, he'll probably have to get fit now, especially since he's going to be playing a superhero.

Maybe I'm just too old, but my idea of "hot" is more in the eyes than the abs.  I love when you can see intelligence and a sense of humor instead of "smoldering" shit, or someone who takes themselves (or their image) too seriously.  

I also think that, by the time someone is over 40, they shouldn't have to try to look like they're still 20-something stud muffins.  And I think big-budget roles (except maybe superhero roles that are aimed primarily at teens) take that into account. I don't know what gyms you go to, but there are an awful lot of people in mine that aren't trying for major muscle definition or to look ripped, just to keep in normal everyday shape (even dad-shape).*

 Most women I know aren't quite that shallow, but (as I said) we're all "of a certain age" so YMMV.  

*ETA: There is a difference between everyday gym-goers and bodybuilders, but it does depend on where and when you go, I suppose.

Edited October 1, 2020 by ahrtee

[ukgirl71]

Isn’t the Soldier Boy character from the 40s?  If so, I’m not sure a “gym bod” would fit the era?

[Icarus]

 

 

 

 

 

 

If this is a Dadbod - I have totally not understood what that meant - July 2018!

[FlickChick]

1 hour ago, LurkingSmurf said:

YMMV but yeah, unless the role otherwise calls for it, it's part of his job to be in shape. His costar was able to do it well enough.

His costar is Jared. Apparently you've missed all the talk around here about how thin and unhealthy Jared looks. I've stood next to Jensen - trust me - he doesn't have a "dadbod". But obviously, you're entitled to your own opinion, as am I.

 

[ahrtee]

10 minutes ago, LurkingSmurf said:

LOL. Hey, if you want to call me shallow because I think an actor isn't ripped, then sure - I'm guilty as sin. He's an actor, and as long as he's being pitched as a ladies man his job, to some extent, is to stay in shape. Neither I nor anyone else on this thread ACTUALLY know him or what he's like in real life, so yep - I've got no problem admitting that I'm judging his looks.

Sorry...I wasn't intending to be personal.  It's not about Jensen himself being ripped or not, just that I don't consider "ripped" to be absolutely essential to be considered "hot."  I have other criteria for judging looks, even for actors.  Everyone is allowed an opinion.  

[Aeryn13]

28 minutes ago, LurkingSmurf said:

Grabbed this from a quick google search of "Jensen Ackles shirtless": https://dizzojay.livejournal.com/115520.html

I remember this set of pics from like 6-7? years ago because it did cause an internet kerfluffle on how "fat" he was. 

Now I`m not torturing myself with rewatches but I don`t think the guys have been shirtless in the show in many years. I couldn`t tell when the last time was. Compared to other CW shows, it was a rarity. So it honestly is hard to say who looked like what when. I don`t think Jensen only very recently gained more muscle mass, though. Maybe the last 2-3 years?  

[tessathereaper]

55 minutes ago, LurkingSmurf said:

LOL. Hey, if you want to call me shallow because I think an actor isn't ripped, then sure - I'm guilty as sin. He's an actor, and as long as he's being pitched as a ladies man his job, to some extent, is to stay in shape. Neither I nor anyone else on this thread ACTUALLY know him or what he's like in real life, so yep - I've got no problem admitting that I'm judging his looks. I don't watch movies or TV for the actors' inner souls, I watch for acting ability and sure, sometimes looks. He could be a great guy, he could be Ellen Degeneres.

Grabbed this from a quick google search of "Jensen Ackles shirtless": https://dizzojay.livejournal.com/115520.html

He's not exactly cut. Sorry about it. I'm not casting aspersions on him or his character, I only made a stray observation. Per the pic earlier in this thread, looks like he's getting back into shape because Supernatural is ending, so good for him. What I'd meant was that average 9-5 working dudes who (1) don't have to look good for a living and who don't have access to personal chefs, trainers, etc. manage to keep in shape, and so should he as long as he's billed as a hot leading man type; and (2) dude's supposed to be playing the Boys' version of Captain America, so yeah, 40's or not, he's supposed to be ripped. If he wants to be a character actor, he's welcome to do so. In the meantime, people are allowed to notice this and comment on it. 

Answering this in the Dean thread as this is a place for unpopular opinions.

[BabySpinach]

FYI, every time you see an ultra-ripped hunk on screen, the actor is probably very dehydrated and flexing as hard as he possibly can. That jacked Hollywood look is neither normal nor sustainable. When actors aren't shooting or constantly cramming down bland chicken breasts to maintain that bulk, they naturally slim down/soften up at least a little. 

I have no doubt that Jensen would get absolutely shredded if a role called for it, but he's been buried in like five layers for years. That "ideal" figure is completely unnecessary for Dean's character, and it's actually a lot healthier for Jensen this way. It sure doesn't affect his face (which is the real moneymaker) or his broad shoulders/arms or his generally trim physique. I take issue with the idea that a hot leading man always needs a marble-carved sixpack--especially when the viewer won't even see him shirtless--or that the absence of one means that he's out of shape. It's not like Jensen's got a potbelly, lol! And he already looks as good as he possibly could in the costumes he's given!

Edited October 2, 2020 by BabySpinach

[DeeDee79]

6 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

It sure doesn't make a difference to his face (which is the real moneymaker)

Ain't that the truth!

[trudysmom]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

from Season 4 on  (where he was what, 30?) he's got a dadbod and definitely doesn't have any muscle definition,

Wow you've really studied him closely to make such a sweeping statement.  But like BabySpinach said, it's his face, and the emotions he's so good at conveying with it, that make him such a great actor.  I wouldn't say dadbod, about Jensen, ever, but you know, maybe I have a different definition.

[ahrtee]

1 minute ago, trudysmom said:

Wow you've really studied him closely to make such a sweeping statement.  But like BabySpinach said, it's his face, and the emotions he's so good at conveying with it, that make him such a great actor.  I wouldn't say dadbod, about Jensen, ever, but you know, maybe I have a different definition.

That wasn't me who said that....though I do admit that I've studied him pretty closely (though not his muscle definition, which is very hard to see under all those layers)! ☺️

[7kstar]

1 hour ago, LurkingSmurf said:

Grabbed this from a quick google search of "Jensen Ackles shirtless

I can remember being a little surprised, but he also wasn't overweight by any definition.  He wasn't trying to be ripped and even talked about it.  Said once you do it, you have to keep it up. Even talked about the Arrow Star complaining how he can't skip a workout.  Jensen said he was happy he could wear his layers of clothes.

But for season 9 when he was required to be shirtless, so he had to work out more.  Now he is in better shape than he was years ago.  But it is a killer smile and eyes that gets me.  If a guy has definition and not flabby in a t-shirt, then I'm fine with it.  Of course, I'm having serious trouble slimming down myself.  I look at food and gain weight.  So I can't really talk about someone that is in good shape.  lol

I also love that he can sing, not fond that he smokes.  I do wonder how he will age when he hits his 50's but so far he has gotten better.  Now for me, Jared isn't aging as well.    But I know some fans will strongly disagree.  Luckily, diversity is a good thing because how boring would it be if we all liked the same things?

[gonzosgirrl]

5 hours ago, LurkingSmurf said:

Clearly I struck a nerve here, although that wasn't my intention - there's a reason I put it in the Unpopular Opinions thread. It's just my opinion, but not everyone is gonna think Jensen is the end-all; it's going to be tough for some fans when he's opened up to criticism outside the Supernatural bubble.

I'm not saying he's fat but like it or not, from Season 4 on  (where he was what, 30?) he's got a dadbod and definitely doesn't have any muscle definition, at least compared to your average gym-goer. I'm guessing that's why fans are always doing manips where it's his head on a ripped guy.

YMMV but yeah, unless the role otherwise calls for it, it's part of his job to be in shape. His costar was able to do it well enough. If he wants to break into more big-budget roles, he'll probably have to get fit now, especially since he's going to be playing a superhero.

There is no measure by which Jensen is out of shape, not now, not ever.  It's too laughable to get fussed about. Welcome back though. 😉

[trudysmom]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

That wasn't me who said that....though I do admit that I've studied him pretty closely (though not his muscle definition, which is very hard to see under all those layers)! ☺️

Sorry, Ahrtee, I got a little, you know, quick draw on the defense. 🙃

[S Cook Productions]

14 hours ago, 7kstar said:

I can remember being a little surprised, but he also wasn't overweight by any definition.  He wasn't trying to be ripped and even talked about it.  Said once you do it, you have to keep it up. Even talked about the Arrow Star complaining how he can't skip a workout.  Jensen said he was happy he could wear his layers of clothes.

But for season 9 when he was required to be shirtless, so he had to work out more.  Now he is in better shape than he was years ago.  But it is a killer smile and eyes that gets me.  If a guy has definition and not flabby in a t-shirt, then I'm fine with it.  Of course, I'm having serious trouble slimming down myself.  I look at food and gain weight.  So I can't really talk about someone that is in good shape.  lol

I also love that he can sing, not fond that he smokes.  I do wonder how he will age when he hits his 50's but so far he has gotten better.  Now for me, Jared isn't aging as well.    But I know some fans will strongly disagree.  Luckily, diversity is a good thing because how boring would it be if we all liked the same things?

Jensen smokes???

[ukgirl71]

Jared needs a little weight (and muscle?) back and, for me, to have his hair out of Sam’s quite severe ‘do (that forehead distracts me!)

[gonzosgirrl]

31 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

Jensen smokes???

I've seen a few pics of him smoking when he was younger, but none recently. Can't say for sure he doesn't now, but if so, he doesn't do it publicly (and he doesn't smell of it at all - generally pretty perceptive of that).

[7kstar]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I've seen a few pics of him smoking when he was younger, but none recently. Can't say for sure he doesn't now, but if so, he doesn't do it publicly (and he doesn't smell of it at all - generally pretty perceptive of that).

Smoking also harm the singing voice.  It was the pics of him smoking and I think he talked about it at one of the cons, can't really remember.  So maybe it is in the past...

[S Cook Productions]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I've seen a few pics of him smoking when he was younger, but none recently. Can't say for sure he doesn't now, but if so, he doesn't do it publicly (and he doesn't smell of it at all - generally pretty perceptive of that).

That's what surprised me, he doesn't seem like the "smoking type," ie. he seems healthy. Plus he never smells of it at cons even in close pics, and I've never seen it. Here's to hoping he doesn't anymore. :)

[tessathereaper]

 

34 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

That's what surprised me, he doesn't seem like the "smoking type," ie. he seems healthy. Plus he never smells of it at cons even in close pics, and I've never seen it. Here's to hoping he doesn't anymore. :)

There was were a couple pictures taken even before Supernatural(it was taken when he and Steve were roommates, one photo they are playing guitars together, Jensen isn't smoking in that one, the other Jensen is smoking and in guitar photo Danneel  smoking, this was a year or two before they started dating, she was sitting on the floor listening, the photos were all taken the same night).     What was said at the time online by those supposedly "in the know" was that he was just a "social smoker"(just smoked at parties, like that) and he'd started when he played Eddie G(2002).  What Jensen himself said at a NJ Convention, which supports what the "ITK" said, was he smoked at parties sometimes when he was younger but he didn't smoke anymore.

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/1/2020 at 8:07 AM, LurkingSmurf said:

Eh, it's just my very very unpopular opinion, after all - I just think he sort of lost the hot, and I used to think he was hottest thing out there. Tbh he looks sort of drawn and tired to me, but that could be because he's clearly lost weight, as well. Personally, I think he got complacent about taking care of himself around Season 4 (and I know he's been on record as not wanting to work out). Perfectly fine for a non-actor, but for a guy who they bill as super-hot and who clearly wanted into the MCU, surprising.

As for his acting - I don't think he's BAD, necessarily, but I think acting is like any skill - it's got to be practiced and honed. Point taken that he had little to work with, but he's been phoning it in for close to half a decade now. I also caught My Bloody Valentine on TV a few months back and I was surprised at how little he shone in the role compared to, say, S3 Dean.

I'm one of the few who think that the lackadaisical nature on set greatly contributed to the show's degradation, and I think that everybody just stopped putting in the work, writers and actors alike, in favor of goofing off and pushing out a lackluster product.  I will be extremely interested to see how both fare in a non-Supernatural setting (although they both have some cushion; Jared as EP at Walker and Jensen with Kripke). Personally, I think Jensen will be okay, as he seems reasonably professional, but Jared at this point seems like he'd flounder anywhere he isn't the belle of the ball.

He didn't just want into the MCU... he was offered Hawkeye after he was their second choice for Captain Anerica and we have no idea where he stood as far as Star Lord. He was in except he could not break his contract.

I have no doubt he will still be in the MCU because they want him.

[Bobcatkitten]

Jensen's current body is nowhere near a Dadbod. I've hugged him in person. He is so much thinner than you think - very svelte. I agree he isn't cut. But big difference from not being cut to being a dadbod. 

 

And if this isn't aging like fine wine I don't know what is. 

 

 

[ahrtee]

11 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

And if this isn't aging like fine wine I don't know what is. 

Isn't (some) fine wine also full-bodied?  😊

ETA: (And isn't full-bodied considered a compliment in wine?)

Edited October 5, 2020 by ahrtee

[Bobcatkitten]

6 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Isn't (some) fine wine also full-bodied?  😊

ETA: (And isn't full-bodied considered a compliment in wine?)

Just depends on what you like as a consumer. I prefer medium bodied wines. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Either way, I'd drink him down like the tall drink of water he is. :P

[Casseiopeia]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Either way, I'd drink him down like the tall drink of water he is. 😛

 

[AwesomO4000]

On 10/1/2020 at 12:41 AM, supposebly said:

I started not recognising the Winchesters anymore and any drama was for empty drama's sake, not because it developed naturally from the characters being different people. The season finales were empty things with tears and death but I never understood anymore what it was all about starting with the season 8 finale. I held on until season 10 until I just couldn't take the shallowness and ridiculousness and canon destruction anymore. If it had been me, I would have been embarrassed as an actor way back then. But I guess I have less tolerance since I only need to be concerned with enjoying what I watch. I hadn't done that with almost any episode starting in season 8. So, Dabb probably sucks as a showrunner but Carver laid the groundwork in the show's decline and ruined it for me. 

People have been complaining about Dean not having a storyline since season 1. That is not a measurement for enjoying the show for me one way or the other.

I agree with almost all of this. Wholeheartedly.

I also think Carver's fondness for his own original characters contributed to the decline as well. It was during his time that Sam and Dean started becoming the questionably acting ones while other characters - often Carver's original characters - became the heroic ones.

On 10/1/2020 at 1:23 AM, Terese said:

Some manufactured contention in season 8, largely due to Sam's completely out of character behavior. But, it did settle down to an interesting series of trials to close Hell. I also enjoyed the introduction and manipulations of Metatron and much of the subsequent confusion and struggles of displaced angels, as well as human Castiel. It had to go somewhere, and there it went.

We also had the addition of well developed and sustaining  characters who played well off of Sam and Dean, showing a depth and growth in that interplay by all concerned,; Metatron, Naomi, Gadreel, Rowena, Cain, Donna. 

The crowning glory of the Carver era was season 11. Provocative, without melodrama, as thoughtful and serious as it was light and humorous, and in perfect measure. It included  all beings (even monsters building an army) taking responsibility for their universe while working together to face the darkness. It ended with family.

I have never ever heard anyone say or seen anyone write that Dean has not had a story since season 1.  Both Sam and Dean have had vigorous stories, neither successful without the other. And when they make mistakes, they do that together, as well.

I wish the trials had actually gone somewhere though. In the end that turned out to be an exercise in futility. Same with Naomi... I never understood what Carver was going for with that character. She seemed all over the place in motivation and action. And Gadreel... not going to go there. He could have been so interesting, but ultimately he annoyed me for reasons that would go into Bitch vs Jerk territory, if I went there, so I won't. Season 9 started out promising for me, but quickly devolved into lies and manufactured drama and character assassination (again).

I agree about Metatron though. I ultimately loved where his character went, and I enjoyed the journey and the character very much.

I also agree about season 11 in that I loved season 11... but I don't attribute a lot of how season 11 went to Carver. I actually think much of the enjoyment of season 11 for me came from Dabb*** and Robbie Thompson (who wrote most of my favorite episodes from season 11). Carver didn't even really stick around to finish his story, because he didn't even write the finale for season 11. Dabb did. I think if Carver had really been into it longer, we would have had more of that manufactured brother against brother angst he seemed to be so fond of stuck into season 11... and I was so glad there wasn't.

Just my opinion on all of that.

*** ... (before he got free reign and torpedoed himself when he became showrunner in season 12, that is.)

Edited October 7, 2020 by AwesomO4000

[FlickChick]

8 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Carver didn't even really stick around to finish his story, because he didn't even write the finale for season 11. Dabb did.

Well the writing was indeed on the wall concerning Badd even with his botched season 11 finale. I recall the guys talking about the final three episodes not making sense and having to rewrite several parts of them in order to make them cohesive. So Badd's inexperience in handling being a good showrunner was evident even before he set out to, and finally succeeded in ruining the show going forward. So I'll take Carver any day over this asshole. No he wasn't perfect; neither was any other showrunner or writer. At least he entertained me.

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

Well the writing was indeed on the wall concerning Badd even with his botched season 11 finale. I recall the guys talking about the final three episodes not making sense and having to rewrite several parts of them in order to make them cohesive. So Badd's inexperience in handling being a good showrunner was evident even before he set out to, and finally succeeded in ruining the show going forward. So I'll take Carver any day over this asshole. No he wasn't perfect; neither was any other showrunner or writer. At least he entertained me.

I totally agree. At least Carver remembered that the Winchesters were the main characters and not there to prop up random Gary Stu's. 

[Terese]

Sam and Dean became victims. They used to be the protagonists, occasionally antagonists, proactively seeking to save the world. When they messed up, they accepted responsibility and moved forward with plans and resolutions. They stood fast and freely with free will and conscience.

Since season 12, they became victims, always a step behind what was after them. Often clueless and despondent, they reacted, but more often acquiesced to whatever trap they were led into until it was almost too late. I don't see the resolution to so many American hunters being slaughtered or Mary freed from being brainwashed as a victory. It shouldn't happened to that degree. Sleepwalking, clueless and disabled by Mary's abandonment, they did nothing.

Season 15 is an even more glaring demonstration. No longer operating on free will, they have been reduced as puppets and victims of a sadistic God. Their response is to sit around the bunker waiting to be told what to do by Billie, whom they should not trust. There is no urgency and no agency. They do nothing. 

According to Dabb, in this nonsensical retcon of themes and characters, there is an enemy, God...or in some last minute twist, the Empty...and they do nothing.

[AwesomO4000]

9 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I totally agree. At least Carver remembered that the Winchesters were the main characters and not there to prop up random Gary Stu's. 

 

11 hours ago, FlickChick said:

At least he entertained me.

Taken to the "Sam vs Dean" thread to be on the safe side.

[gonzosgirrl]

Unpopular, at least the twinkiedom: Dean and Sam are NOT Jack's 'fathers'.  If anyone is his parent - besides, you know, Lucifer -  it's Castiel. Jack exists because of Castiel's interference and betrayal of Dean and Sam. He alone is responsible for him. Dean and Sam may have some forced-narrative attachment to him at this point, but to say that they 'lost a son' and/or committed any kind attempted infanticide (or whatever the equivalent three year old who looks twenty-five 'cide' is) by taking him out is just ridiculous.

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Unpopular, at least the twinkiedom: Dean and Sam are NOT Jack's 'fathers'.  If anyone is his parent - besides, you know, Lucifer -  it's Castiel. Jack exists because of Castiel's interference and betrayal of Dean and Sam. He alone is responsible for him. Dean and Sam may have some forced-narrative attachment to him at this point, but to say that they 'lost a son' and/or committed any kind attempted infanticide (or whatever the equivalent three year old who looks twenty-five 'cide' is) by taking him out is just ridiculous.

I would also maybe give a bit of parenthood to Mary.  We didn't see it, but it was implied that she sort of raised him in the AU.  The most I would put Sam and Dean at are "uncles."  

[ParadoxLost]

Lets call this bitterness.  

But the bunker ruined Supernatural.  I don't know why they decided to do it although I have suspicions.  Like cost cutting by having a standing set. Or it cut down on filming time and Jared/Jensen needed to scale back to keep going.  Or it was becoming ridiculous that John's diary still had all the clues to move plot forward.

But whatever it was, I hated the bunker because it really put an end to the road trips.  And I think that the road trips forced creativity.

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Lets call this bitterness.  

But the bunker ruined Supernatural.  I don't know why they decided to do it although I have suspicions.  Like cost cutting by having a standing set. Or it cut down on filming time and Jared/Jensen needed to scale back to keep going.  Or it was becoming ridiculous that John's diary still had all the clues to move plot forward.

But whatever it was, I hated the bunker because it really put an end to the road trips.  And I think that the road trips forced creativity.

Plus, the bunker couldn't even follow it's own rules of only being openable by the one key, warded against all evil, etc. And then the bunker became an almost supernatural being in and of itself.  I wouldn't go so far as to say it ruined the show. I think the ruination was started with the AUs and finished with Chuck/God as the big bad.   But, I don't think the bunker was a positive addition.

[ahrtee]

12 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Lets call this bitterness.  

But the bunker ruined Supernatural.  I don't know why they decided to do it although I have suspicions.  Like cost cutting by having a standing set. Or it cut down on filming time and Jared/Jensen needed to scale back to keep going.  Or it was becoming ridiculous that John's diary still had all the clues to move plot forward.

But whatever it was, I hated the bunker because it really put an end to the road trips.  And I think that the road trips forced creativity.

I loved the bunker when it first showed up.  I loved the idea that Dean finally had a place he could call home, and come back to.  I love the way he "nested" and put all his favorite things on display.   Even the magically-appearing answers didn't bother me too much (as a librarian, I always laugh when they can find some arcane bit of information in just a few hours in all those books and records, at least before they had them all cataloged and organized.)  Even Bobby used to take days to find answers.  I didn't mind the loss of road trips (having a home base made them "trips" not just constantly living in motels) and there were still enough of them to keep me happy with new and peculiar motel room sets without making them the focus of  being on the road.  That way *why* they were away became more important than where they were.

But then, yes: 

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

Plus, the bunker couldn't even follow it's own rules of only being openable by the one key, warded against all evil, etc. And then the bunker became an almost supernatural being in and of itself.  I wouldn't go so far as to say it ruined the show. I think the ruination was started with the AUs and finished with Chuck/God as the big bad.   But, I don't think the bunker was a positive addition.

It was a positive addition at the beginning, then it became the inanimate version of Bobby (except without the attitude).  The show needed someone/place where all the answers were readily available, and someone to hand them to them.  First it was Bobby, then Kevin, and then Sam, with the bunker's help.  

Edited November 10, 2020 by ahrtee
clarification

[Casseiopeia]

34 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Plus, the bunker couldn't even follow it's own rules of only being openable by the one key, warded against all evil, etc. And then the bunker

Well that's because Mrs. Butters was in stasis and her magic wasn't protecting the Bunker anymore.  😒

[ahrtee]

3 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Well that's because Mrs. Butters was in stasis and her magic wasn't protecting the Bunker anymore.  😒

Actually, that was @Katy M's point.  I was just quoting it (and agreeing with it.)   

But the protection seemed pretty arbitrary anyway.  I'm assuming monsters couldn't get it (since none did in the whole time they were there) but *some* angels, some demons, and various humans could  (did they have more copies of the key made when they had Kevin, Cas and all the AU characters living there?  Or did they have a doorman assigned just to let people in?)  Of course, it could be that they replaced the special door/lock with one from Home Depot after the Stynes blew the door open back in season 10.  But wouldn't that mess up the protection as well?

And now that Mrs. Butters isn't there at all (even in stasis/half power) does that mean that all the protection is gone?  As well as all the magic that powers the lights, water, HVAC, and everything that kept them off the grid?  

 

[Casseiopeia]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

Actually, that was @Katy M's point.  I was just quoting it (and agreeing with it.)   

But the protection seemed pretty arbitrary anyway.  I'm assuming monsters couldn't get it (since none did in the whole time they were there) but *some* angels, some demons, and various humans could  (did they have more copies of the key made when they had Kevin, Cas and all the AU characters living there?  Or did they have a doorman assigned just to let people in?)  Of course, it could be that they replaced the special door/lock with one from Home Depot after the Stynes blew the door open back in season 10.  But wouldn't that mess up the protection as well?

And now that Mrs. Butters isn't there at all (even in stasis/half power) does that mean that all the protection is gone?  As well as all the magic that powers the lights, water, HVAC, and everything that kept them off the grid?  

 

oops...sorry.  

[Smad]

11 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

And now that Mrs. Butters isn't there at all (even in stasis/half power) does that mean that all the protection is gone?  As well as all the magic that powers the lights, water, HVAC, and everything that kept them off the grid?  

The magical protection went bye bye when Amara erased it all back in S11. So after that the bunker should be accessible for everything supernatural. But before that, it made no sense that anyone could enter or anything could find them and enter. Charlie said they were basically untraceable since she couldn't find them, only a general location radius. But lots of supernatural entities could just waltz in.

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, Smad said:

The magical protection went bye bye when Amara erased it all back in S11. So after that the bunker should be accessible for everything supernatural. But before that, it made no sense that anyone could enter or anything could find them and enter. Charlie said they were basically untraceable since she couldn't find them, only a general location radius. But lots of supernatural entities could just waltz in.

Apparently not fully, because Dean had to "power down" the warding in Season 12 (Lotus) so Crowley could get in.  Yet, later that season, he waltzed in unannounced in All Along the Watchtower.  I suppose Dean could have forgotten to power it up again.

[FlickChick]

Not that I'm disagreeing with all the bunker problems, but those are so small compared with the throwing out of any/all canon that's been going on for several seasons at this point. As it now stands, the writers plow over anything they don't like and invent anything they do like. That is my bitterness - that as a viewer, I can't believe in the story anymore, because the canon of the story changes from week to week. What was true - is now false. What was impossible - is now possible. What was fact - is now fiction. And the list goes on. It takes me out of the belief of the story completely. Lazy showrunner and writers have ruined our story. FUCK YOU DABB!

[Casseiopeia]

17 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Not that I'm disagreeing with all the bunker problems, but those are so small compared with the throwing out of any/all canon that's been going on for several seasons at this point. As it now stands, the writers plow over anything they don't like and invent anything they do like. That is my bitterness - that as a viewer, I can't believe in the story anymore, because the canon of the story changes from week to week. What was true - is now false. What was impossible - is now possible. What was fact - is now fiction. And the list goes on. It takes me out of the belief of the story completely. Lazy showrunner and writers have ruined our story. FUCK YOU DABB!

And Dabbs excuse now is "writers lie".  That way he can get away with whatever he wants.

[DeeDee79]

16 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

And Dabbs excuse now is "writers lie".  That way he can get away with whatever he wants.

What a freaking hack.

[Castiels Cat]

17 hours ago, FlickChick said:

Not that I'm disagreeing with all the bunker problems, but those are so small compared with the throwing out of any/all canon that's been going on for several seasons at this point. As it now stands, the writers plow over anything they don't like and invent anything they do like. That is my bitterness - that as a viewer, I can't believe in the story anymore, because the canon of the story changes from week to week. What was true - is now false. What was impossible - is now possible. What was fact - is now fiction. And the list goes on. It takes me out of the belief of the story completely. Lazy showrunner and writers have ruined our story. FUCK YOU DABB!

NU canon... thanks Eugenie!

[gonzosgirrl]

18 hours ago, FlickChick said:

Not that I'm disagreeing with all the bunker problems, but those are so small compared with the throwing out of any/all canon that's been going on for several seasons at this point. As it now stands, the writers plow over anything they don't like and invent anything they do like. That is my bitterness - that as a viewer, I can't believe in the story anymore, because the canon of the story changes from week to week. What was true - is now false. What was impossible - is now possible. What was fact - is now fiction. And the list goes on. It takes me out of the belief of the story completely. Lazy showrunner and writers have ruined our story. FUCK YOU DABB!

This is exactly my bitterness with the last few seasons. Sure, I can tell myself it ended with 11, but my brain has been sullied with their canon-busting utter disregard of the show's history. Bad enough they they contradict their own writing, sometimes week to week, but they have retroactively ruined investment in  the early seasons because nothing is true. If you are going to build worlds, no matter how fantastic they are, you have to have some steadfast rules in order to engage in the story. And yes, sometimes those rules have to be broken in order to move the story along - but it should be a momentous event when that happens, something that shakes the foundations. Not just lazy, I-need-this-to-happen-to-fit-my-writing-so-i'll-pull-it-out-of-my-ass nonsense. Otherwise, why should I believe in anything?

[Myrelle]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This is exactly my bitterness with the last few seasons. Sure, I can tell myself it ended with 11, but my brain has been sullied with their canon-busting utter disregard of the show's history. Bad enough they they contradict their own writing, sometimes week to week, but they have retroactively ruined investment in  the early seasons because nothing is true. If you are going to build worlds, no matter how fantastic they are, you have to have some steadfast rules in order to engage in the story. And yes, sometimes those rules have to be broken in order to move the story along - but it should be a momentous event when that happens, something that shakes the foundations. Not just lazy, I-need-this-to-happen-to-fit-my-writing-so-i'll-pull-it-out-of-my-ass nonsense. Otherwise, why should I believe in anything?

Well, since the list of memorable episodes is so short from these last three seasons, it's really going to be pretty easy for me to forget what Badd tried to do once it's all over with.

It just feels like it's taking forever to get it over with, though.

Two more episodes...