S01.E03: Giving and Receiving

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The House of Evangelista celebrates the holidays and prepares for the Snow Ball in spite of Angel’s lack of holiday spirit. Elektra contemplates undergoing an affirming medical procedure.

[ShadowHunter]

While I am not a fan of seeing or hearing anything Christmas related in the Summer lol this was the best episode so far to me.

I loved the end when they were giving each other the presents.  The smaller moments are nicer then the shade at the ballroom.

Stan learned not too leave Matt out of a meeting for the future.  That could be an interesting set up.

Kate Mara did more this week at least. With her being married to Evan Peters we have the X-Men/Fantastic Four crossover.

[SimoneS]

The acting was better this episode although the standards are low. Nice to get more Pray Tell. I like how they portrayed the neglect at the hospital. It was realistic. It is too easy to forget how people with AIDS/HIV were treated in the early days when so many people including medical personnel thought the disease was contagious. 

The christmas exchange was sweet. It is nice to see how Blanca has formed this family full of love and generosity. Ricky really seems moved to be a part of Blanca's family, let's see how long that lasts.

I loved Elektra and her girls stealing the kettle full of money. I was rolling, very slick. Of course, she takes all the money and uses it for her surgery. Can't say I blame her, but she should have been honest with her children.

Edited June 18, 2018 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

Matt is such a slimeball. James Van Der Beek is the perfect actor for that role. 

[Dee]

Abundance mugging Santa was hilarious.

Blanca's Christmas dinner scene was perfect.

[ShadowHunter]

8 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It is too easy to forget how people with AIDS/HIV were treated in the early days when so many people including medical personnel thought the disease was contagious. 

I started to tear up.  Agree its hard to watch almost because its a sad truth. 

[SHD]

As soon as I saw the shape of Angel's present I knew what it was going to be but I still shed a few tears.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

I wonder how the House of Abundance celebrated Christmas.

I hope Damon used/made Ricky use protection, although there was no sign of it. Ricky's been around. At least Stan took precautions.

[Surrealist]

I don't even know where to start, except that I thought this was an outstanding episode, despite the bittersweet tone. 

The final scene. I rarely cry, but couldn't help myself in that moment. I even watched it over again. 

54 minutes ago, SHD said:

As soon as I saw the shape of Angel's present I knew what it was going to be but I still shed a few tears.

Same. 

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, Dee said:

Abundance mugging Santa was hilarious.

I'm getting a very Pizzazz and the Misfits vibe from Abundance.

5 hours ago, Dee said:

Blanca's Christmas dinner scene was perfect.

It was.

And while I love Angel, there are a handful of holidays in the US where you can't leave your family and use work as an excuse unless you have receipts to back it up. Christmas is one of those holidays. She's got to realize that Stan was never going to be able to pull that one off.

Indya and Evan have great chemistry, but Evan has great chemistry with most of his female leads, which is why the internet ships him with them instead of his actual girlfriend, Emma Roberts. He has almost no onscreen chemistry with Emma.

[hoodooznoodooz]

I liked Patty telling Matt that despite his having been with so many supermodels and beauty queens, he wasn’t a very good kisser.

I love Angel’s nose. I am so glad she didn’t have rhinoplasty.

That metal and gemstone in the necklace are going to clash horribly with Patty’s skintone. ? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know Helena was upset about her student's death, but she wasn't wrong to reprimand Damon for showing up to class late. And not just a few minutes late - half an hour late. Even for regular studio classes, that's a huge no no. You don't get to run into class 30 minutes late. It's an even bigger no no if you missed the application deadline and this woman made an exception to let you into the program.

When Damon tried to defend himself by saying he came from uptown, I was like NOPE so I laughed when she asked another kid in class how far away he came from. Then Damon tried to excuse his behavior by saying that she was the one who told him to go out into the world and explore his artistry and find his voice, I was like uhhh, she didn't mean for you to do that when you're supposed to be in class. And if you love dance and your classes as much as you say, then you would get your ass there on time. Dude, you don't even have a job so you really have no excuse for being that late.

I was cracking up at Angel and Stan having sex for the first time while "Let's Wait Awhile" played. I am afraid that Angel jinxed herself when she told him that she felt safe in the apartment. Please, show, don't have Stan go nuts and kill her!

I suspect their next meeting will involve a lot of Angel yelling at him for missing Christmas. I get wanting to be with someone on Christmas and being mad that he broke a promise, but if there's one day when it's hard to sneak out of the house without your wife noticing, it's Christmas. What kind of excuse did he think he could make that would give him enough time to go see her?

As soon as Dawson asked what Stan was doing for Christmas, I knew he was going to either tell Stan's wife about his girlfriend or sleep with her so I guess high five for being efficient and trying both at once?

Although Blanca isn't the perfect mother, she is dong the best she can. Getting Angel the shoes she described earlier was a very sweet gesture.

[hoodooznoodooz]

So now I am confused as to why Stan was rinsing his mouth like a crazy person in episode one after kissing Angel. Was he repulsed by Angel initially?

I wanted to see Blanca walk at the Snow Ball. 

TAWP Damon still really needs acting classes. He is better in quieter scenes, but his tantrum with Blanca was BAD.   

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Are Ricky and Angel contributing to the family financially?  Is Stan giving Angel money besides paying for the apartment so that she no longer needs to work?  If so, what does she do all day?  How did Ricky earn the money for the Walkman? Since I doubt he finished HS, Bianca should have him working on his GED.

[mtlchick]

10 hours ago, SHD said:

As soon as I saw the shape of Angel's present I knew what it was going to be but I still shed a few tears.

As soon as she finished the story in the beginning, I knew what her present would be.  But still, I teared up too.  

 

 

Quote

I was cracking up at Angel and Stan having sex for the first time while "Let's Wait Awhile" played. 

THIS.  I was like "I know this is 1987 so Janet Jackson wasn't getting her groove on yet but...ok?" 

 

32 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know Helena was upset about her student's death, but she wasn't wrong to reprimand Damon for showing up to class late. And not just a few minutes late - half an hour late. Even for regular studio classes, that's a huge no no. You don't get to run into class 30 minutes late. It's an even bigger no no if you missed the application deadline and this woman made an exception to let you into the program.

I think Helena sees a lot of her deceased student (that scene was heart breaking to watch) in Damon and wants to protect him but at the same time, had to put her foot down.  Blanca went into a lot of trouble getting the audition and Helena had to back him.   Showing up that late is inexcusable. 

 

I hope Billy Porter submit this tape for next year's Emmys.    The acting is getting better but Blanca/Angel's "THE TURKEY!" was pretty bad.  It seems they were trying to figure out who would start to speak first in order to blurt it out together and didn't work. 

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was cracking up at Angel and Stan having sex for the first time while "Let's Wait Awhile" played. I am afraid that Angel jinxed herself when she told him that she felt safe in the apartment. Please, show, don't have Stan go nuts and kill her!

I suspect their next meeting will involve a lot of Angel yelling at him for missing Christmas. I get wanting to be with someone on Christmas and being mad that he broke a promise, but if there's one day when it's hard to sneak out of the house without your wife noticing, it's Christmas. What kind of excuse did he think he could make that would give him enough time to go see her?

I too laughed when "Let's Wait a While" played as Stan and Angel had sex. I was also thinking the same thing when Angel said that she felt safe there. Unfortunately, Stan strikes me as the kind of man who will do anything to protect his secret affair with her. She already has unreasonable expectations of him, like expecting him to sneak out on Christmas to be with her and she showed up at his building. If she threatens his "perfect" life, I can see him killing her.

[beartrash]

I was confused by Stan combining both presents in one box for his wife instead of saving the necklace for Angel.  Did he change his mind after leaving the jewelry store?

[ShadowHunter]

9 hours ago, beartrash said:

I was confused by Stan combining both presents in one box for his wife instead of saving the necklace for Angel.  Did he change his mind after leaving the jewelry store?

I think he realized what Matt was up to the second he was at his house. Patty acted cold after that. Matt made a comment about his wife.  That was my guess.

Edited June 19, 2018 by ShadowHunter

[ahpny]

The silent scene in the hospital elevator said so much. The crew behind this show doesn't go for subtle and restrained all that often here and elsewhere, but this time, that worked quite well. Though Helena and Pray Tell haven't met as far as well know, we know they're connected through who they do know (even if they don't). The reason they're visiting also connects them in poignant way. It takes a lot to persevere in such circumstances, and this showed that in a moving manner. 

[Ohwell]

I like Angel, but I can't say that I feel sorry for her since she knows that she's being kept by a married man.  I don't know why/how she expected that he'd show up for Christmas.  However, I do hope that he doesn't harm her.  

I like Damon and Ricky together but I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I love me some Blanca but sometimes those cross eyes are distracting. 

[jzygayle]

5 hours ago, mtlchick said:

As soon as she finished the story in the beginning, I knew what her present would be.  But still, I teared up too.  

 

 

Yeah.  That was a little anvilicious, but I liked it.

[12catcrazy]

Gotta say I'm enjoying this show and getting very caught up in what happens to the characters.  Yeah, the acting can be so-so, there is an air of semi-cheesiness about the production, but there is also heart in this show which so much tv lacks.   And late 80s Gay NYC and the sub-culture of the  Balls is not exactly a time and place where many tv shows are going to go and kudos to FX for airing such a show, especially in our current political climate.   

Previous posters have mentioned that they don't like Electra's acting (or should I say the actress playing Electra).  I take it as a stylistic choice as much of Gay/Drag/Camp thing was influenced by actresses in women's films of the 30s/40s/50s.  There was a certain over-the-topness in some of these movies and this became even more exgerated when translated into Drag/Camp.  I think that Electra is especially a product of that time (she doesn't seem to be a young person) and her persona is created as being this larger-than-life women's movie femme fatale.  EVERYTHING about Electra is artifice and it's a point of pride that she does artifice well.   On the other hand Blanca is more "real".  She is more real in her feelings and more real as a person in general.   It seems to me that personal "realness" is something that is a theme of this show.   I'm still kind of puzzled in what Jersey Guy is doing with Angel.  He claims not to be gay but Angel still has male parts and that doesn't seem to be an issue.  In a past episode, Jersey Guy also was bemoaning the falseness of his life but so far is seems to me that he is the one keeping himself in the false life.  His wife (so far) doesnt strike me as a woman who really wants one of the Masters of the Universe as a husband (and by the 80s, having a dishwasher was well below with keeping up with the Jones) and it actually seems to me that she'd rather have a husband who was home with her and the kids rather than a workaholic.   Jersey Guy has a "real" life but it seems that he is the one who wants what is "unreal" - the job in the shark's world of Trump 80s New York, and a mistress who looks like a beautiful woman but is really something else.  

On more shallow notes - I don't like Jersey Guy's wife's hair - it's not right.  Can't 100% put my finger on it but no New Jersey young matron would have had that hairdo then.  Hair was bigger - she wouldn't have looked like Cyndi Lauper but trust me, her hair would have still been bigger.  They get the 80s decor in the Jersey home and Angel's apartment down pretty well - all the way down to the peach couch and the wall paper in the house (pale with the pastel swipes of color).  Another thing (are we supposed to notice?) how bare the walls of the house are.  Is this supposed to represent the sterility of the suburbs, the lack of art or artistic desire in the household, or just that the set designers ran out of money for more props?   

The mentions of "Show World" !  Ha.  Back in the early 90s, Manhattan had this very lewd cable access channel J.  There was this show on called the Robyn Byrd show and it largely featured NYC exotic dancers; most of whom it seemed finished their shift and then came on the show.  I remember being rather um, interested, when they'd feature a dancer who would come in in costume - 100% beautiful woman; start striping down, upper clothes off - woman - lower clothes off - man.   Apparently most of these dancers were in the earlier stages of transitioning and hadn't as of yet gone for the full monty operation.    

I saw "Paris Is Burning" back when if first came out (don't remember much about it - hey, it's been almost 30 years!).  I really hope that Angel isn't going to meet a bad end at the hands of Jersey Boy.   She should have been more realistic about knowing the score of being the chick on the side to a married guy with young kids.  He ain't gonna be showing up to be eating her Christmas cookies.  I'm just afraid she is going to start making herself a pain in the ass to where his fantasy life is in danger and he does something about it.  They guy just seems so not right.  I really like Angel and hope she will come out all right.   

And lastly - I totally loved The House of Evengelista Christmas Dinner.   A family gathered together -- no fancy china or dinning room table - just people who care about each other and making the best of the circumstance.  

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

Previous posters have mentioned that they don't like Electra's acting (or should I say the actress playing Electra).  I take it as a stylistic choice as much of Gay/Drag/Camp thing was influenced by actresses in women's films of the 30s/40s/50s. 

Yeah, Electra's acting doesn't bother me, she reminds me of Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Every time I see the episode title, I think of Joey on Friends trying to write the ceremony for Monica and Chandler’s wedding:

[BingeyKohan]

Folks seem to think Angel is in danger from Stan but I’m more concerned about Matt. I’m afraid they’re going to do a replay of Jason Alexander in Pretty Woman thinking Vivian was fair game because she was a prostitute. I think Matt is going to figure out where Stan’s kept woman is kept and go after her since he already tried and failed with Patty.

[Scarlett45]

50 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

Folks seem to think Angel is in danger from Stan but I’m more concerned about Matt. I’m afraid they’re going to do a replay of Jason Alexander in Pretty Woman thinking Vivian was fair game because she was a prostitute. I think Matt is going to figure out where Stan’s kept woman is kept and go after her since he already tried and failed with Patty.

That too. Of all the characters I think Angel is the most at risk for violence. 

@SimoneS and @Ohwell I would expect Angel to be more street smart than this. I know she’s young but she seemed to have a good head on her shoulders. She should know THIS is part of being the mistress, you get the day after Xmas and get kept waiting. I think she’s very lonely and love hungry. Yes she has Blanca but that’s not enough for her, making her very vulnerable to this situation with Stan. Why wouldn’t she want to be with her own family on Christmas rather than waiting for a meager hour of his time?!!

Edited June 19, 2018 by Scarlett45

[tennisgurl]

I knew that Blanca was going to give Angel the shoes, but it still got me teary eyed. The whole Christmas dinner with Blancas family was super sweet, so sweet it made me forget that they were trying to give us Christmas Feels during the summer! They really do have a really touching family bond, and its going to be so freaking sad when they find out that she has HIV.

It was nice/sad seeing Pray Tell with his dying boyfriend, and tearing up about how many friends and lovers he has lost to AIDS. And seeing how bad things were, with so many people dying in such crappy conditions, both due to lack of resources, and misunderstanding about the illness. It was good to see him show a more vulnerable side, and have more going on than being sassy and fabulous. I mean, he is both those things, but he has more going on.

Patty seems like a sharp lady, but she also has a blind spot for her husband, who she clearly loves, and she seems more interested in him and her family than in his 80s materialistic wet dreams, but that allows her to miss his eyes. It sucked seeing him make her feel like the bad guy when she caught him in his lies. And, while I like and feel for Angel, she had to have known that he would have to stay with his wife and kids. Its hard to get away to see the mistress on that kind of day.

Ricky and Damon are cute, but I am kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Edited June 19, 2018 by tennisgurl

[eejm]

Never mind.

Edited June 19, 2018 by eejm

[Irlandesa]

12 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

So now I am confused as to why Stan was rinsing his mouth like a crazy person in episode one after kissing Angel. Was he repulsed by Angel initially?

I think it was guilt.  And inexperience.  I don't get the sense that he has stepped out on his wife before, especially given how long it took him to take things with Angel up to the next level. 

Quote

Previous posters have mentioned that they don't like Electra's acting (or should I say the actress playing Electra).  I take it as a stylistic choice as much of Gay/Drag/Camp thing was influenced by actresses in women's films of the 30s/40s/50s.  There was a certain over-the-topness in some of these movies and this became even more exgerated when translated into Drag/Camp. 

I know what she's going for but I still think it can come off as wooden instead of just affected at times.  That said, this was her best episode in that she had more quiet moments.

4 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

I'm still kind of puzzled in what Jersey Guy is doing with Angel.  He claims not to be gay but Angel still has male parts and that doesn't seem to be an issue.

There are straight men who are attracted to women and penises (but not penises on men.) There are also straight men who are attracted to women and care more about the overall femininity than they do about certain body parts. 

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

Folks seem to think Angel is in danger from Stan but I’m more concerned about Matt. I’m afraid they’re going to do a replay of Jason Alexander in Pretty Woman thinking Vivian was fair game because she was a prostitute. I think Matt is going to figure out where Stan’s kept woman is kept and go after her since he already tried and failed with Patty.

You stole my post right down to the Pretty Woman reference.  That's who I worry about as well--except Matt won't realize she's transgender until it's too late.

 

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

@SimoneS and @Ohwell I would expect Angel to be more street smart than this. I know she’s young but she seemed to have a good head on her shoulders.

She does but I think we've already seen that, to quote Pretty Woman again, she wants the fairy tale.  I think Blanca referenced Angel's dreams vis a vis Stan in the pilot or second episode.  

[planet17]

I thought it was predictable in many moments (Stan not showing up; Angel's present, etc), but there was something that felt more authentic to me. Even in all that childhood sad stories.

On a few other notes: I got some Angels In America vibe in that hospital scene, for some reason; And MJ Rodriguez and Indya Moore are getting better and better.

[Grumpbump]

I didn't see the shoes until just before Angel was unwrapping it and i realized it was a shoebox.  I fell for it and teared up.  I am okay with the cheesiness or schmaltz because RM is also giving us the really ugly part of the 80s and you need a counterbalance for that.  

I really love the show but small things are distracting me.   Mainly,  the trophies.  What's the deal? Are they recycled?  When we see the inside of the houses (apartments) I don't see a stack of trophies,  ala Toddlers and Tiaras.  And the balls  don't seem sponsored or require a fee, so do they recycle or give them back before the next ball? 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Grumpbump

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, Grumpbump said:

I really love the show but small things are distracting me.   Mainly,  the trophies.  What's the deal? Are they recycled?  When we see the inside of the houses (apartments) I don't see a stack of trophies,  ala Toddlers and Tiaras.  And the balls  don't seem sponsored or require a fee, so do they recycle or give them back before the next ball? 

The House of Abundance had an etagere against a wall with a big display of trophies.  There must be more hidden away.

Who pays for the venue, trophies, judges, announcer?  Is there an entrance fee? Do they sell drinks?

[hoodooznoodooz]

2 hours ago, Grumpbump said:

I didn't see the shoes until just before Angel was unwrapping it and i realized it was a shoebox.  I fell for it and teared up.  I am okay with the cheesiness or schmaltz because RM is also giving us the really ugly part of the 80s and you need a counterbalance for that.  

I really love the show but small things are distracting me.   Mainly,  the trophies.  What's the deal? Are they recycled?  When we see the inside of the houses (apartments) I don't see a stack of trophies,  ala Toddlers and Tiaras.  And the balls  don't seem sponsored or require a fee, so do they recycle or give them back before the next ball? 

I kept thinking: trophies = future landfill 

I WISH they recycled the trophies!

[Guest]

On 6/18/2018 at 9:50 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

So now I am confused as to why Stan was rinsing his mouth like a crazy person in episode one after kissing Angel. Was he repulsed by Angel initially?

See, that's why I'm still worried (thanks to this forum lol) that Stan/Angel is going to end in her murder once he's exposed, especially if she's inspired by Venus Xtravaganza or hundreds of murdered trans women of color. @Irlandesa while I want to went to believe your take on Stan feeling guilty and naive, I think there's a darker element of self-repulsion going on. For all the deep conversations and pronoun corrections and sugar baby apartments, even if he sees her as a real woman, he still hates himself for having a fetish that directly jeopardizes his lifestyle, reputation, and idealized self-image.

On 6/18/2018 at 4:45 AM, HunterHunted said:

Indya and Evan have great chemistry, but Evan has great chemistry with most of his female leads, which is why the internet ships him with them instead of his actual girlfriend, Emma Roberts. He has almost no onscreen chemistry with Emma.

100% agree on Indya/Evan. That sex scene was hot, and very explicitly safe with the condom sequence, which is crucial for a queer show set at the height of the AIDS crisis.

Re: Emma Roberts and people shipping Evan's fictional relationships instead of his actual one, that's likely because Emma has a history of being physically abusive towards Evan and was arrested for domestic violence against him in 2013. The two have had a volatile and toxic relationship for years, but somehow she still gets to bask in their power couple dynamic and still gets roles playing his love interests ffs! It just goes to show society still has double standards for female-on-male abuse. I don't know how she's flown under the radar in the #MeToo era (just kidding, she's a tiny white woman and has a megastar aunt).

Edited June 19, 2018 by Guest

[Scarlett45]

@SnarkEnthusiast YES- i fear Stan turning on Angel if/when their relationship is found out by a 3rd party. I could see both his wife and Angel being physically abused by him if the secret got out. He seems to be wrapped up in his image of a “good guy” that when that cracks he will snap. 

Spoiler

The promo scene for next week was brief, but compared to Chis Meloni’s character who has a swagger, and arrogance. He’s probably such a dipshit he would not be threatened by someone knowing about Electra (not that there’s anything wrong with Electra) but because he wouldn’t feel bad about lying to his wife (if he had one). I hope I’m being clear.

[bigmag]

21 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I like Angel, but I can't say that I feel sorry for her since she knows that she's being kept by a married man.  I don't know why/how she expected that he'd show up for Christmas.  However, I do hope that he doesn't harm her.  

I like Damon and Ricky together but I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I love me some Blanca but sometimes those cross eyes are distracting. 

I can't get past how much Blanca looks and sounds like Cher.  I like the character, but it's distracting to me because I keep thinking she's a Cher imitator.

[Scarlett45]

2 minutes ago, bigmag said:

I can't get past how much Blanca looks and sounds like Cher.  I like the character, but it's distracting to me because I keep thinking she's a Cher imitator.

Really? I don’t see it. 

[HunterHunted]

8 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Re: Emma Roberts and people shipping Evan's fictional relationships instead of his actual one, that's likely because Emma has a history of being physically abusive towards Evan and was arrested for domestic violence against him in 2013. The two have had a volatile and toxic relationship for years, but somehow she still gets to bask in their power couple dynamic and still gets roles playing his love interests ffs! It just goes to show society still has double standards for female-on-male abuse. I don't know how she's flown under the radar in the #MeToo era (just kidding, she's a tiny white woman and has a megastar aunt).

Even before the domestic violence arrest, fans were shipping him with Taissa Farmiga and Britne Olford. However that redoubled after Emma's arrest because he's a talented young man who deserves better than an abusive partner. I think she flies under the radar because she's a woman and not famous enough for it to make the press. Though I suspect Julia might have a hand in covering things up because Julia is also an undercover asshole.

[TiffanyNichelle]

Let's Wait A While playing during the love scene was pretty funny. Angel should have kept holding out. I guess Stan had to get his wife both the bracelet and necklace after he made a big deal of getting her a measly dishwasher after shelling out for a whole freaking apartment for Angel. Damn.

I liked getting deeper into what's going on with Elektra. It's fun to watch her whirl into Blanca's life in fabulous clothes and snappy one-liners but as a character I want more from her. So seeing her thinking about finally getting her surgery was pretty good. I hope that the show will also give Lil Papi something to do besides be the little brother to the group with the quips.

Damon picked the wrong day to be late and sass his teacher. He deserved that, imo, but I still wish he could have gone to the big holiday ball. I still don't care about Ricky. Yawn.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

There are straight men who are attracted to women and penises (but not penises on men.) There are also straight men who are attracted to women and care more about the overall femininity than they do about certain body parts. 

Yes exactly! I think there's still a lot of conflation that genitals = sexuality and especially for men that being attracted to or even unfazed by sex with someone with a penis means you're gay. Conversely, a lot of gay men won't date trans men and lesbians won't date trans women because they define their sexuality as being repulsed by or only attracted to penises or vaginas. As a bisexual woman myself, I would absolutely date a trans woman not because she's trans or may or may not have a penis, but because ladies are hot lol. The same goes for trans men. And this isn't one of those millennial "soul not body" holier than thou sexuality riffs, I just like both masculinity and femininity and don't understand why genitals supposedly undermine your gender expression or reveal who you "really" want to fuck deep down.

With that said, it's the 1980s and the narrative is definitely setting up Stan's paranoid ego to be taken down by homophobia and gay panic pressure from his environment, even if he's able to recognize Angel as a woman and seems to realize having sex with a trans woman doesn't mean he's gay. This is not an era for nuanced takes on gender and sexuality. However, that "take off your panties" scene suggested he was anticipating and thrilled to see her penis, so I'm guessing he's a straight dude with a kink for trans women (a "chaser") as opposed to Angel's original guess, a closeted gay man sexually experimenting with Angel to either further his own denial or as a stepping stone to the idea (he wants dick aka a dude so this is an okay way to explore because she still "looks like a lady" or whatever). I was so glad they avoided that trope, but he's still going to snap that private Progressive Prince Charming persona the second external homophobia and transphobia seep into his real life with actual consequences.

Also, my bisexual dilemma: I have a huge crush on both Indya Moore and Evan Peters. Help! 

[Grumpbump]

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

The House of Abundance had an etagere against a wall with a big display of trophies.  There must be more hidden away.

Who pays for the venue, trophies, judges, announcer?  Is there an entrance fee? Do they sell drinks?

Well, shoot, shows how much I'm paying attention.  FWIW, I am usually knitting while watching tv and I have seven cats so I can be easily distracted.  I'll look for them next time.  

[Scarlett45]

@SnarkEnthusiast, I’m a straight Cis Woman but I say Indya is way hotter than Evan so Indya hands down. 

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Also, my bisexual dilemma: I have a huge crush on both Indya Moore and Evan Peters. Help! 

Not even hard.  Threesome.

You're welcome.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

@SnarkEnthusiast, I’m a straight Cis Woman but I say Indya is way hotter than Evan so Indya hands down. 

I agree but I'm usually more into women so I didn't want to be biased ? Evan is cute on X Men and AHS, but that Donald Trump Jr. hair does him no favors here.

 

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

Not even hard.  Threesome.

You're welcome.

Always the best solution. ?

On another note, the entire cast of every house needs some acting classes STAT. Even Blanca had cringe moments this ep.

[planet17]

I also see Stan as a straight man. And I understand why Angel thought he was either gay or a guy who was affraid to ask his wife to do what he wanted, instead of a pansexual man for instance. I think conversations about gender identity and sexuality didn't happen back then as it happens now. 

 

On another note, I wonder if we'll see more of voguing. I certainly want to see more of it.

[LittleIggy]

Loved the episode, but I was disappointed that the Snow Ball got such short shrift. I was hoping for more.

[RachelKM]

I started watching this show tonight.  The acting from some parts is shaky; but I'm loving it. 

[SimoneS]

I have been wondering where the Pray Tell and the Ball owners get the money for those trophies. Even back then they had to cost.

On 6/18/2018 at 10:53 PM, Irlandesa said:

You stole my post right down to the Pretty Woman reference.  That's who I worry about as well--except Matt won't realize she's transgender until it's too late.

If Matt attempted to rape Angel and discovered she was trans, I could see him killing her.

[ClareWalks]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I have been wondering where the Pray Tell and the Ball owners get the money for those trophies. Even back then they had to cost.

 

I know zero about ball culture but maybe they have a cover charge for admission, or the bar that hosts it gives the event runners a portion of bar sales? They probably ain't rolling in dough but it might be enough to keep the production values above ground level :)

[Mumbles]

On 6/18/2018 at 4:45 AM, HunterHunted said:

I'm getting a very Pizzazz and the Misfits vibe from Abundance.

A million likes for a "Jem" reference. We are the Misfits, our poses are better....