Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[Ms Blue Jay]

He's just some cop, I think.  Also, in the movie "I Love You Man" Jaime Pressly is paired with Jon Favreau who is not only very average looks-wise, but is a total asshole in the movie.  He has a horrible personality.  

That reminds me of the movie "Chef", where I read that Jon Favreau cast Sofia Vergara as his own ex-wife.

[topanga]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I know what you mean. I would love if more “average” looking actors (like Seth Rogen types) who are actually talented could get roles in mainstream romantic comedies. And I’d have no problem if “different levels of attractiveness”(which is always subjective) individuals ended up falling for each other. But it’s always the schlubby (didn’t know how to spell that by the way thanks) white man with an absolutely gorgeous drop dead white woman.

Off the top of my head that didn’t do this was Something New , Sana’a Lanthan is pretty, but in a very normal way (if you saw her walking down the street you’d think she was a normal woman), she’s not unusually thin or toned or portioned due to plastic surgery and they paired her with a hot white guy Simon Baker. 

But the difference is that if an average-looking white dude gets the hot woman, no one really questions it. But if someone like Melissa McCarthy or Amy Schumer are cast as romantic leads (and both of them are attractive, IMO), they are criticized on the internet--and even by reputable critics--as their romances being unrealistic. Or they're called brave because they aren't a size 00 and dare to act like desirable, sexual creatures on screen. 

And beauty is subjective, of course, but most of the black men I know find Sanaa really beautiful. 

On 4/17/2019 at 9:14 PM, aradia22 said:

I think there's a kind of exceptionalism. This is a thorny topic to discuss but I think I've mentioned that I wasn't thrilled with his casting because he's Asian but he's Malaysian and half-white.

On 4/18/2019 at 12:55 AM, NUguy514 said:

I am very much of the opinion that Henry Golding, Chris Pang, and Pierre Png could all completely get it.

I didn't know Henry Golding was Malaysian and biracial. I still think he looks traditionally Asian, although some of his facial features might be somewhat more Westernized. 

Other Asian men I've always found attractive: Jet Li, Bruce Lee (short though he was), and even John Cho, although John's great personality and acting ability also play a role. 

[aradia22]

Quote

That reminds me of the movie "Chef", where I read that Jon Favreau cast Sofia Vergara as his own ex-wife.

I think Scarlett Johanssen is also his new young love interest. 

[topanga]

1 minute ago, aradia22 said:

I think Scarlett Johanssen is also his new young love interest. 

Of course *eye-roll.* And was Charlize Theron another former love interest?*

*Love both of them, BTW.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Off the top of my head that didn’t do this was Something New , Sana’a Lanthan is pretty, but in a very normal way (if you saw her walking down the street you’d think she was a normal woman), she’s not unusually thin or toned or portioned due to plastic surgery and they paired her with a hot white guy Simon Baker. 

Mileage varies, as they say, because I think Sanaa is the hot one and Simon is the schlubby (but too schlubby) one in that combo!

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, topanga said:

But the difference is that if an average-looking white dude gets the hot woman, no one really questions it. But if someone like Melissa McCarthy or Amy Schumer are cast as romantic leads (and both of them are attractive, IMO), they are criticized on the internet--and even by reputable critics--as their romances being unrealistic. Or they're called brave because they aren't a size 00 and dare to act like desirable, sexual creatures on screen. 

I absolutely agree with you! Sorry if that wasn’t clear in my initial post. 

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Mileage varies, as they say, because I think Sanaa is the hot one and Simon is the schlubby (but too schlubby) one in that combo!

He’s schlubby now but I think he was hot then. 

2 hours ago, topanga said:

But the difference is that if an average-looking white dude gets the hot woman, no one really questions it. But if someone like Melissa McCarthy or Amy Schumer are cast as romantic leads (and both of them are attractive, IMO), they are criticized on the internet--and even by reputable critics--as their romances being unrealistic. Or they're called brave because they aren't a size 00 and dare to act like desirable, sexual creatures on screen. 

And beauty is subjective, of course, but most of the black men I know find Sanaa really beautiful. 

I didn't know Henry Golding was Malaysian and biracial. I still think he looks traditionally Asian, although some of his facial features might be somewhat more Westernized. 

Other Asian men I've always found attractive: Jet Li, Bruce Lee (short though he was), and even John Cho, although John's great personality and acting ability also play a role. 

All those men are smokin’😍. 

[Danny Franks]

4 hours ago, topanga said:

Of course *eye-roll.* And was Charlize Theron another former love interest?*

*Love both of them, BTW.

Jon Favreau has spent his entire career hooking up with women (on-screen of course) who are way out of his league.

Heather Graham in Swingers

Courtney Cox in Friends

Cameron Diaz in Very Bad Things

Famke Janssen in a couple of films

And the ones already mentioned

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, topanga said:

But the difference is that if an average-looking white dude gets the hot woman, no one really questions it. But if someone like Melissa McCarthy or Amy Schumer are cast as romantic leads (and both of them are attractive, IMO), they are criticized on the internet--and even by reputable critics--as their romances being unrealistic. Or they're called brave because they aren't a size 00 and dare to act like desirable, sexual creatures on screen. 

And beauty is subjective, of course, but most of the black men I know find Sanaa really beautiful. 

I didn't know Henry Golding was Malaysian and biracial. I still think he looks traditionally Asian, although some of his facial features might be somewhat more Westernized. 

Other Asian men I've always found attractive: Jet Li, Bruce Lee (short though he was), and even John Cho, although John's great personality and acting ability also play a role. 

I've only ever heard people thinking Sanaa is incredibly hot.

It's hard for me to agree with people saying someone "looks" Asian or not, be it Mark Paul Gosselaar or Keanu Reeves or Henry Golding because I think it's very very very subjective.  As a mixed race person myself some people know immediately, and some never do.  So I think it's really a toss up whether someone looks mixed or not.  The fact is Henry Golding is and I understand the disappointment of him being cast in that role.  People who are from Asia have a different opinion than North American Asians etc. etc. etc. some people think I look "so white" and some people think I look "so Asian" so those opinions are really moot to me and only the facts are important.

I totally agree with you about women like Melissa and Amy.  There's a lot of pushback when women like that are cast in attractive roles.

[Ms Blue Jay]

18 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Jon Favreau has spent his entire career hooking up with women (on-screen of course) who are way out of his league.

Yup.  And as a director and producer, like the movie "Chef" he gets to decide who he's cast with and of course he picks some of the hottest women in Hollywood.  And of course they are all a size zero or two.

Women like Melissa McCarthy, Gabourey Sidibe, etc. should all have those same opportunities, but unfortunately as of now they don't.  Rebel Wilson tried to take it there, but unfortunately she was so awful towards all the plus size women who came before her and the black women who pointed this out towards her on Twitter that I really didn't want to support her film.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[NUguy514]

19 hours ago, topanga said:

But the difference is that if an average-looking white dude gets the hot woman, no one really questions it.

Oh, I take issue with it every. single. time.  It drives me crazy.  I hated Knocked Up for so many reasons, chief among which was my total disbelief that Katherine Heigl('s character) would ever, ever fall in love with Seth Rogen('s character).  No way in hell.  The trailer for Long Shot similarly pisses me off because nothing could or would ever make me believe Charlize would fall for Seth.

And Jon Favreau...yeah, he telegraphed what he was all about way back in Swingers.

And I think Sanaa and Simon are both gorgeous, and I love Something New.  Such a cute movie.

[Scarlett45]

23 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Rebel Wilson tried to take it there, but unfortunately she was so awful towards all the plus size women who came before her and the black women who pointed this out towards her on Twitter that I really didn't want to support her film.

I understand what you mean. I did see “Isn't It Romantic” and quite enjoyed it but I never forgot about how Rebel behaved. 

At least we got a WOC with Priyanka Chopra Jonas- who actually has great comic timing. I’d like to see her in a romantic comedy. The way she said “Josh” still cracks me up!

[Scarlett45]

There’s a discussion in the “All the Boys I Loved Before” thread regarding casting Jordan Fisher as John Ambrose from Model UN (the original character- books and last shot of the movie was white), and how people would react. For the record I think Jordan Fisher will be awesome in the part!(he’s charming and a real theatre talent) Given Jordan is a black man of mixed heritage people might go up in flames. I wonder if we will see much of John’s life and give him mixed heritage as well. As @Ms Blue Jay has pointed out- actors of mixed race take the parts they can get as roles are rarely written for people of mixed heritage. Jordan isn’t white passing in the slightest so likely they just make the character black. 

[NUguy514]

I have no issue with Jordan Fisher's casting, but the actor who played John Ambrose in TAtBILB (it was really a glorified cameo with no lines at the very end) was Jordan Burtchett, who is white.  I can see people complaining about the switcheroo there.

[starri]

I don't know if documentaries should go here or not, but this a perspective on queer life that we should have gotten a lot sooner.  

[Wynterwolf]

There is also this gem on Netflix about being disabled and queer:

[Trini]

I thought this was an interesting profile: Jazzy Ellis Reflects on Being a Black Woman in the Movie Industry, (I can't embed the video)

Quote

Women of color are a minority in the industry. So much so that “wigging” and “painting down” (blackface) is a common occurrence. Ellis addresses these issues, self care, the dangers of her career as well as the passing of fellow black stuntwoman, Joi “SJ” Harris, who had a fatal accident on the set of Deadpool 2.

[methodwriter85]

On 4/18/2019 at 6:41 PM, Lugal said:

I remember an article that talks about gendered race theory, that Blacks are viewed as prototypically male while Asians are viewed as prototypically female, which is why Black women and Asian men are often left out.

You're kind of reminding me about an article I read that said Sigorney Weaver was accepted as an action hero in the Alien franchise because at six feet tall and with short hair, she was seen as a man.

Quote

Obviously there is variation among any racial or ethnic group in terms of phenotype... height, hair color, eye color, skin pigmentation, facial features, body type, etc. but I don't think it's coincidental that he's seen as attractive and he's not that far off from the white male standard of beauty.  

I mean, let's be honest- if he were a 5'5" slender Asian twink instead of having his 6 foot tall jock build, I just can't see him getting embraced like he would. As for Henry Golding, it's really interesting to see how quickly Hollywood has embraced him and if that will last. I mean, Crazy Rich Asians really was kind of just an acting lark for him.

[Ms Blue Jay]

The Henry Golding thing is going to go on for a while.  He has some big love Christmas movie coming out with Daenerys, and you know how THOSE movies tend to stick around year after year.  

I don't know how to say this without saying mean, but I follow him on Instagram, and it seems very clear he is 100% intent on becoming a star.  It's all pictures of just him, by himself, posing at special events.  He goes to a LOT of fashion shows and premieres.  I kind of think a divorce is imminent.  I know this sounds mean, and I think he's cool, handsome, and charming.  But I'm just saying.  He's crazy ambitious and he wants to be around forever.  He said so himself in Vanity Fair, I think it was.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[topanga]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't know how to say this without saying mean, but I follow him on Instagram, and it seems very clear he is 100% intent on becoming a star.  It's all pictures of just him, by himself, posing at special events.  He goes to a LOT of fashion shows and premieres.  I kind of think a divorce is imminent.  I know this sounds mean, and I think he's cool, handsome, and charming.  But I'm just saying.  He's crazy ambitious and he wants to be around forever.  He said so himself in Vanity Fair, I think it was

Well, he’s been a model and a tv personality, so he certainly doesn’t mind being in the limelight. Maybe he never thought he had any acting chops before CRA.  But, yeah, he could be a narcissist or a dick in real life. I’m okay not knowing for a while. 

[NUguy514]

7 hours ago, topanga said:

Well, he’s been a model and a tv personality, so he certainly doesn’t mind being in the limelight. Maybe he never thought he had any acting chops before CRA.  But, yeah, he could be a narcissist or a dick in real life. I’m okay not knowing for a while. 

After this video, the only reasonable conclusion is that Henry Golding is an utter delight in every possible way.

[IWantCandy71]

On 4/20/2019 at 10:16 AM, NUguy514 said:

But the difference is that if an average-looking white dude gets the hot woman, no one really questions it.

I agree with this. It sucks that for years we've seen this over and over and it's still happening. But if we make it about the size or the appearance of the actor/character, it really doesn't matter whether the plus size person is male or female. We're still making it about appearance.  I think at least the average looking white dude getting the hot woman is a little more interesting than the two pretty people getting together. I'm actually less interested in that. I wish we as a society didn't see "fat" or "thin", or "hot" or "not", and then by those standards, determine who belongs together and who doesn't.  But unfortunately, we're human, and we all judge by outward appearance first-whether we acknowledge it openly or not.

I do get you, though.  I'd love to see a plain woman-no matter her size-get a hot guy in a movie-and have it never once be mentioned about what she looks like and how she doesn't "deserve" the guy (help us Lord) because she's not drop dead gorgeous. It's not a realistic hope, knowing Hollywood, but it's a dream of mine. Oh, and the woman can't be insecure or manipulative because she's afraid of losing the guy, either. It should be apparent from the very beginning that she's a prize with flaws just like anyone else-no Mary Sues who are perfect, thank you very much-and that the guy in question should cherish her no matter what anyone else thinks. Or he should step aside for someone more worthy-this would be an acceptable ending, too.

[Hybridcookie]

The new Hellboy movie was terrible, but I did like Daniel Dae Kim as the hot eye-candy character

Edited May 5, 2019 by Hybridcookie

[methodwriter85]

On 5/2/2019 at 8:47 PM, topanga said:

I don't know how to say this without saying mean, but I follow him on Instagram, and it seems very clear he is 100% intent on becoming a star.  It's all pictures of just him, by himself, posing at special events.  He goes to a LOT of fashion shows and premieres.  I kind of think a divorce is imminent.  I know this sounds mean, and I think he's cool, handsome, and charming.  But I'm just saying.  He's crazy ambitious and he wants to be around forever.  He said so himself in Vanity Fair, I think it was

I mean, they don't have kids and celebrity marriages are notoriously short, especially when they were about on an equal level and then one kind of gets catapulted into stardom. (See: Anna Faris and Chris Pratt.) He and his wife were both models that got into t.v. hosting gigs so they were pretty evenly matched until Crazy Rich Asians took off like a rocket and he's being flooded with movie offers. So history would tell you that their marriage is doomed.

However, I tend to be way more cynical about the celeb marriages where their entire identity revolves around being couples. I wouldn't call them movie stars (although Alexa was in the Spy Kid movies and once upon a time was getting groomed to be a teen movie ingenue), but the Penavegas have basically sold themselves as the adorable Hispanic couple that are non-threatening enough to be on Hallmark and it's nauseating. It also makes me sad, because again, there was a time where I was really rooting for Alexa to make it big as a Latina teen actress. Not that she's not getting plenty of Hallmark work, mind you. It's just annoying that she's branding herself with her husband because it all really smacks of her desperation to stay afloat in an industry that doesn't give you a lot of chances if you're not a handsome white male and Hallmark trying to silence critics with some really obvious tokenism.

Current teen Latina actress trying to make her way up? Isabella Moner. I thought she was really good in Sicario 2, but man Dora the Explorer looks like it could go really, really bad.

Edited May 9, 2019 by methodwriter85

[Ms Blue Jay]

Just as an FYI, it was me who wrote that quote, not Topanga.  I'm sure she wouldn't want it to be miscredited to her.

On 5/2/2019 at 8:47 PM, topanga said:

 But, yeah, he could be a narcissist or a dick in real life. I’m okay not knowing for a while. 

I didn't mean to imply that 🙂 Obviously I have no idea.  But yes, I do think he's ambitious and enjoying the hell out of his newfound fame and I don't blame him a tiny bit.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[starri]

I have some thoughts about It: Chapter Two that I'm spoiler tagging just in case.  This is just some stuff from the book and just a touch of behind the scenes information that may or may not be accurate.

Spoiler

I am actually excited about the movie, as I thought the first half was so much better than it had any right to be.  But I am rather uneasy that we're about to be smacked in the face with one of the worst Bury Your Gays examples that I can think of.

If you're not familiar with King's book, the opening scene involves the gay-bashing of a character named Adrian Mellon.  The descriptions of the act are brutal, and while I don't think it comes across as homophobic, there's a certain leering quality that's a little uncomfortable.  What's worse, King took inspiration from an actual gay bashing and murder of a young man named Charlie Howard that took place in his native Bangor a few years before It was first published.  Xavier Dolan is going to be playing him in the movie, so I know we're going to see it.

I know this is unavoidable, but I wish they'd found a way to mitigate it somehow.  Apparently, in a draft of the film from when Cary Fukunaga was involved that established that Ritchie was gay, which would help, assuming they haven't cut that.

[Dee]

Zoe Saldana stars in the Top 2 grossing films of all time.

[memememe76]

The concept of people of colour having to work harder to gain the same benefits that caucasian people get extends to aspects of self promotion as well. It may not be particularly classy, but it is part of the game. Golding cannot just do a bunch of small (and little seen) indies after CRA for years and then get offered big studio roles, a la Robert Pattinson (who I like, btw). Golding cannot play it cool like someone like Gosling can. I like Gosling too. 

I do see improvements in how Asian men are viewed. Music with BTS, who don't fit the western aesthetic. TV, a relationship like Jennifer Love Hewitt and Kennett Choi (a handsome guy, but not Hollywood pinup material) on 911 would not have taken place a decade ago. Movies are always slow. 

[aradia22]

Quote

Zoe Saldana stars in the Top 2 grossing films of all time.

And in both of them she plays aliens (one blue, one green) so you can't see her real skin color. Coincidence? It's not even like Mystique or like she was the soldier in Avatar where there's some element of transformation so she can spend part of the movie as her real self. People complained about The Princess and the Frog making the main character spend much of the movie as a frog. But she spent a good amount of time as a human. It's difficult to count Zoe Saldana's success as a win. It's kind of like James Earl Jones' voice work.

Edited May 18, 2019 by aradia22

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, memememe76 said:

The concept of people of colour having to work harder to gain the same benefits that caucasian people get extends to aspects of self promotion as well. It may not be particularly classy, but it is part of the game. Golding cannot just do a bunch of small (and little seen) indies after CRA for years and then get offered big studio roles, a la Robert Pattinson (who I like, btw). Golding cannot play it cool like someone like Gosling can. I like Gosling too.

I don't disagree at all.  

[xaxat]

23 hours ago, aradia22 said:

And in both of them she plays aliens (one blue, one green) so you can't see her real skin color. Coincidence?

I still wonder what drove James Cameron to cast POC for all of the alien roles in Avatar. (Saldana, Studi, Pounder etc.)

I'm glad they all got a check, but?

[Trini]

3 hours ago, xaxat said:

I still wonder what drove James Cameron to cast POC for all of the alien roles in Avatar. (Saldana, Studi, Pounder etc.)

I'm glad they all got a check, but?

Eh, I'm too tired to get into it, but I will say that it's a perputuation of many tropes/stereotypes of people of color in Hollywood.

I mean, was he going to cast white people as the Magical Natives?

[supposebly]

11 hours ago, xaxat said:

James Cameron to cast POC for all of the alien roles in Avatar

I didn't know that. I didn't watch that dreck because of the clicheed story they were telling but reading that makes me even more glad I didn't spend money on that movie.

[Mabinogia]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

12 hours ago, xaxat said:

I still wonder what drove James Cameron to cast POC for all of the alien roles in Avatar. (Saldana, Studi, Pounder etc.)

I'm glad they all got a check, but?

Eh, I'm too tired to get into it, but I will say that it's a perputuation of many tropes/stereotypes of people of color in Hollywood.

I mean, was he going to cast white people as the Magical Natives?

Having never see the movie I didn't realize that. Sadly, I am not surprised. 

[methodwriter85]

I really enjoyed Rocketman. It kind of felt like an acid trip, but in a good way.

[Silver Raven]

Russia has cut all of the gay scenes out of Rocketman because positive depictions of homosexuality are illegal in Russia.

[BetterButter]

Scarlett Johansson Says She Has the Right to Portray ‘Any Person’ She Wants

[Silver Raven]

49 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

Scarlett Johansson Says She Has the Right to Portray ‘Any Person’ She Wants

Sigh.

[AimingforYoko]

1 hour ago, BetterButter said:

Scarlett Johansson Says She Has the Right to Portray ‘Any Person’ She Wants

What she seems to fail to understand is the importance of, is not so much who is playing a role (although that is important), it is who isn't playing the role. And the history of certain people not getting the opportunity to play that role especially. It is the textbook definition of privilege. 

[Mabinogia]

Someone needs to tell her that is kind of what "white privilege" is all about. Yes SHE, the pretty white girl gets to play anyone she wants, but who is she taking the job from? Someone who can't play anyone they want and have to play to their type. It would be great if everyone had the same freedom to play any character they want. 

[PepSinger]

That statement is a whole room full of YIKES.

[Joimiaroxeu]

The new 007 will be young, female, and Black:

Bond 25: Lashana Lynch to be 'introduced' as female 007 in new film

Note that she will be 007, not James Bond.

Lynch is a British actress, probably best known to US audiences for her role as Carol Danver's close friend Maria Rambeau in 2019's Captain Marvel movie.

[AimingforYoko]

Ah, so she's James' replacement after he 'retired'.

ETA: And Scarlett clarifies*.

*-Translation: My publicist thought I should throw a bit of water on this dumpster fire.

Edited July 14, 2019 by AimingforYoko

[starri]

That.  is.  AWESOME!

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

The new 007 will be young, female, and Black:

Bond 25: Lashana Lynch to be 'introduced' as female 007 in new film

Note that she will be 007, not James Bond.

Lynch is a British actress, probably best known to US audiences for her role as Carol Danver's close friend Maria Rambeau in 2019's Captain Marvel movie.

I'm impressed that she doesn't look like she can pass a paper bag test or have a long flowing weave of "good hair."

Edited July 14, 2019 by methodwriter85

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, starri said:

That.  is.  AWESOME!

Well, you say that. But if she gets killed ten minutes in so Bond can have his job back, it won't look quite as progressive.

I actually didn't know Lashana Lynch was British.

[starri]

6 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I actually didn't know Lashana Lynch was British.

I was surprised to discover that as well.

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

ETA: And Scarlett clarifies*.

 

[Neurochick]

On 7/14/2019 at 2:29 PM, starri said:

That.  is.  AWESOME!

There's a YouTube video about this, and she has a different opinion.  It's interesting. 

[starri]

The MCU's female King of the Asgardians is going to spend Thor 4 looking for her queen.

Good for Tessa Thompson.

[methodwriter85]

4 hours ago, starri said:

The MCU's female King of the Asgardians is going to spend Thor 4 looking for her queen.

Good for Tessa Thompson.

On one hand, I'm totally for this, but on the other hand, I really hope we see Tessa Thompson and Chris do a romantic comedy because they really do have great chemistry together. Hollywood did already do the MIB thing but that failed so I'd like to see them in a romcom together.