Gimme That Old Time Religion

[Arwen Evenstar]

17 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I think she was always envious of the Duggars and resentful of their fame. Like Jill R, she obviously wants to be a Fundy celebrity, too. But while Jill has always sucked up to the Duggars in hopes of riding their coattails, Zsu positioned herself as being much more devout, much more humble and much more deserving of praise than Jim Bob and Michelle. Then, when the shit hit the fan with Josh, she was positively gleeful. She cloaked her enjoyment of the situation with all the right words ("Judge not, lest ye be judged", etc.) but she was clearly beside herself with joy over their downfall.

ITA...Zsu is smug and annoyingly self righteous, but she's not a fame whore in the sense that she's always over social media and trying to get in the news. You know she couldn't help have a sense of schadenfreude at the downfall of the Duggars.

She's got a blog, and even though I don't agree with hate she spews, she at least is capable of constructing a proper sentence and explaining articulately why and how she believes as she does. Though she may abhor the liberal Germany from whence she came, she still has German sensibilities of logic, cleanliness, economy, and practicality, and a penchant for all things organic and fresh.

As repellent as her hatred is, she keeps an immaculate home, is very organized, and feeds her children nourishing and healthy meals. We can't say that about the Duggars.

[Marigold]

I posted on the Josh and Anna thread that maybe Jim Bob thinks Josh has a Generational Curse.

Moved it over here...

IBLP Generation Curse

[Aja]

On 4/6/2017 at 2:12 PM, Marigold said:

I posted on the Josh and Anna thread that maybe Jim Bob thinks Josh has a Generational Curse.

Moved it over here...

IBLP Generation Curse

So following this logic from their very own logic book, Jim Bob and Michelle really ARE evil incarnate.

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, Aja said:

So following this logic from their very own logic book, Jim Bob and Michelle really ARE evil incarnate.

I wonder whether that's the only place where their logic book and my logic book completely coincide.

[MaryAnneSpier]

On 4/6/2017 at 2:12 PM, Marigold said:

I posted on the Josh and Anna thread that maybe Jim Bob thinks Josh has a Generational Curse.

Moved it over here...

IBLP Generation Curse

I attended an Assembly of God church growing up, and I remember our pastor did a series of sermons about generational curses. However, I don't recall him using that as a platform against adoption. Maybe I'm blocking that portion out. 

[Mollie]

The Duggars are boasting about their crop of little Gothard cadets, including Josie who is running around barefooted in rattlesnake infested East Texas.  Meanwhile, the Gothard organization is selling its $6 million dollar facility in Australia, probably to cope with the sexual molestation lawsuits against Gothard and the Board of Directors (Gil Bates and Stephen Paine). 

 

[Churchhoney]

41 minutes ago, Mollie said:

The Duggars are boasting about their crop of little Gothard cadets, including Josie who is running around barefooted in rattlesnake infested East Texas.  Meanwhile, the Gothard organization is selling its $6 million dollar facility in Australia, probably to cope with the sexual molestation lawsuits against Gothard and the Board of Directors (Gil Bates and Stephen Paine). 

 

On the Melbourne sale -- Woot! They seemed to have placed pretty high hopes in the Oz expansion, so it's great to see it disappoint them. 

On Josie and company. Yep. Bare feet for snakes. But notice that the Duggar girls do have long skirts AND long leggings in hot Texas (a long full black skirt in poor Josie's case -- that must make for pleasant wearing). Anyway ...while they may die of poison (or heat stroke) the fate worse than death will not befall them: They will defraud no one. Priorities are straight, as always. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Absolom]

It looks like they may have finally given up the undershirts though.  I guess it's baby steps for them.

[cmr2014]

They just look like hell, though, don't they. If they were normal kids and were all rumpled because they had been out playing, that would be one thing, but they're just not cared for at all. The non-Duggar kids look clean and also like a comb might have been applied to their hair on occassion. The Duggar kids are rumpled and dirty, their clothes don't fit, and the clothing and shoes aren't appropriate for the location.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

It looks like they may have finally given up the undershirts though.  I guess it's baby steps for them.

I'm not sure. What's that white thing hanging out from under Hannie's maroon Gothardite (??) shirt? ... Isn't that an undershirt? Maybe we just don't see undershirts on the littler ones because the necks on the outer shirts are too high to dip anywhere near the clavicle....

[Absolom]

Well, drat, there goes that little hope.  I guess they've just gotten better at hiding them.  They are underwear of a sort after all.

[GeeGolly]

The Jboy is dressed for Fall weather and the rest are dressed for Spring. What are the temps at Big Sandy now? And if they're going to wear Khaki they need to purchase the wrinkle free kind.

[HooHooHoo]

Some of them almost look like they could fit in to my kids heathen Catholic school. They wear maroon shirts with a gold crest and khaki (or plaid) bottoms. Of course our students usually brush their hair, wear nice shoes, and iron--or remove promptly from the dryer--their clothes!

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

They just look like hell, though, don't they. If they were normal kids and were all rumpled because they had been out playing, that would be one thing, but they're just not cared for at all. The non-Duggar kids look clean and also like a comb might have been applied to their hair on occassion. The Duggar kids are rumpled and dirty, their clothes don't fit, and the clothing and shoes aren't appropriate for the location.

Wonder if the one without visible leggings on feels like a hussy?  (She shouldn't, the leggings'ed pair thus have skirts that look uber weird.)

[Mollie]

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

The Jboy is dressed for Fall weather and the rest are dressed for Spring. What are the temps at Big Sandy now? 

High of 89° today, low of 74°

[RazzleberryPie]

Are all those kids Duggars? Well dugggars and the new cousin who lives there?

The leggings kill me. They all look so uncomfortable. 

Now that Janas the only caregiver, they all look a hot mess. That's just too much to put on  an older sister. 

[Barb23]

Is there a dress code for the Big Sandy conference?   Are the girls allowed to wear something like a skort, a skirt with bike type shorts underneath?  Can the boys wear longer cargo type shorts?  Michael and Marcus have been shown wearing shorts at other times.  Can they wear shorts at the Big Sandy? Did they even go to the conference?

Poor Tyler, his pants look very uncomfortable.  As shown by the scrunched up legs & his stomach hanging over the waistband, they definitely aren't his size.  I guess him & Jackson, who has a thinner taller stature, have to share the same clothes whether they fit or not.

Quoting @RazzleberryPie "they all look a hot mess."

[louannems]

I agree all the khaki pants and skirts are a rumbled mess, but they are camping!  

Most of the girls' polos are too big, but probably are hand me downs.

 Josie's hair is pulled tightly back with little braids on top, and I think I even see banana curls attempted on her frizzy hair. Her high for head is unfortunate without bangs.

Jordyn's hair is nicely braided and pulled back. Jenny is beautiful.  Hannie looks to have the only fitted Polo and her hair is also pulled neatly back.

My big concern with all these lost girls is they never get athletic shoes, when appropriate!  How they they perform their cadet Junior duties in flip flops and sandals,  but the boys get decent running shoes?

The leggings in muggy, humid 89 degree weather are just stupid.

[Aja]

I NEED someone to explain to me, in a way that does not completely horrify me, why girls that small need to be THAT worried about sexual modesty. PLEASE. I need this. "We like to dress modestly so as not to stir righteously un-fulfillable desires in the menfolk" is fine if you're the age of consent and also insane, but there is no way in Gothard hell that SEXUAL MODESTY featuring that heavily in a 7 year-old's every day life is anything short of abuse, in my book. CHILDREN ARE NOT SEX OBJECTS. Just because the leadership of your cult can't get that through their fucking heads doesn't make it ok, Duggars.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Aja

[Churchhoney]

6 minutes ago, Aja said:

I NEED someone to explain to me, in a way that does not completely horrify me, why girls that small need to be THAT worried about sexual modesty. PLEASE. I need this.

Because all of the adults in this situation (and by "situation," I mean not only Duggardom but Gothardom as a whole) are all insane. (and at least a little bit stupid, into the bargain)

[Mollie]

13 minutes ago, Aja said:

I NEED someone to explain to me, in a way that does not completely horrify me, why girls that small need to be THAT worried about sexual modesty. PLEASE. I need this. "We like to dress modestly so as not to stir righteously un-fulfillable desires in the menfolk" is fine if you're the age of consent and also insane, but there is no way in Gothard hell that SEXUAL MODESTY featuring that heavily in a 7 year-old's every day life is anything short of abuse, in my book. CHILDREN ARE NOT SEX OBJECTS. Just because the leadership of your cult can't get that through their fucking heads doesn't make it ok, Duggars.

It is because some perverts view little girls as sexual objects.  Remember that Josh abused four minor siblings, one of whom was only 5 years old.  So, maybe if those little girls were all wearing leggings under their dresses, then maybe Josh couldn't have so easily put his fingers where he put them.

[Aja]

12 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Because all of the adults in this situation (and by "situation," I mean not only Duggardom but Gothardom as a whole) are all insane. (and at least a little bit stupid, into the bargain)

Yes, and I cannot for the LIFE of me understand why these perverts have actual fans. This sick focus on children being objects of sexuality from the time they are literally infants all the way through to adolescence and early adulthood when their father and all of the other male authority figures they know are completely preoccupied with their "purity" is DISGUSTING. It's disgusting!!! "My understanding is this happens in a lot of families." Oh, I bet it happens in just about every sick-assed family in your cult, Duggars! How the hell do they have supporters? Whenever I peel back the layers of the Duggar onion, I just can't get past this. It blows my mind.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Aja

[Churchhoney]

44 minutes ago, Aja said:

Yes, and I cannot for the LIFE of me understand why these perverts have actual fans.

Yeah, this is the strangest thing to me, too.

But I think their fans probably have fantasy images in their heads of "old-fashioned" families living in big country houses with wide porches and everybody being happy and innocent and fond of each other all day long, in a world where everything was lovely and perfectly ordered and not complicated in any way. Wish-fulfillment fantasies of the perfect peace and happiness that people so often project onto an idealized past that they've heard their grandparents muse about and mourn (while the nostalgic grandparents completely ignore and never ever mention to the new generations that in fact the past was never actually that way at all, except for maybe five days out of each year or something.) ......

And then I think that because the Duggars are a big family, living in the country, talking about Jesus all the time, and pretending -- with TLC's help -- that they're loving and wholesome and self-sufficient and joyful and helpful, people attach that false-but-naively-appealing image to their own false-but-naively-appealing fantasies and are fans of that combination of false images -- not really fans of the actual Duggars at all.

I think everything the fans see is a combination of TLC/Duggar PR and their own wish-fulfilling projections. And of course the hazy sweet high of believing that that wonderful image is actually real somewhere out in Arkansas and thus potentially the kind of thing that they actually could have for themselves makes them completely unable to countenance any unpacking of the real facts of it. Just as with any other addict and his or her drug. They can't be reasoned with or shown the downsides. The only thing they want is more hits to get the high.

It's not "the Duggars," but "the Druggers," really.

That's my explanation anyway.

I prefer to be a fan of the fantasy worlds found in actual fiction.

[BitterApple]

15 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

They just look like hell, though, don't they. If they were normal kids and were all rumpled because they had been out playing, that would be one thing, but they're just not cared for at all. The non-Duggar kids look clean and also like a comb might have been applied to their hair on occassion. The Duggar kids are rumpled and dirty, their clothes don't fit, and the clothing and shoes aren't appropriate for the location.

They really do. They remind me of kids in an orphanage who have to make do with whatever clothes and shoes are donated, regardless if they fit or not. It's ridiculous because you can get inexpensive kids' clothes at places like Target, TJ Maxx and Marshall's. There's no reason for them to look this disheveled. And OMG, Hannie is Josh's twin. When did that happen?

[AUgirl]

Sign me up for the express bus to hell but DAMN Josie is an unfortunate looking child. 

[frenchtoast]

It seems there was a stray post here and it's somewhat snowballed. Please, let's keep to discussing different faiths and how the Duggars practice etc.

Thanks!

[JoanArc]

Ha Ha

So glad the Duggars visit to this joke didn't turn them a profit.

[Mollie]

Just when you thought you've heard the last from Bill Gothard, he's B A C K!

"Bill and his ministry have relaunched his personal website, BillGothard.com.  It features many of the over 20 books he has written over the past four years.  He continues traveling from time to time to speak.  At 82 he shows no signs of slowing down.

"A new focus in a number of his books is the 'gut brain', the principle that we do more thinking and planning with our 'gut' than we do with the grey matter between our ears. Scripture uses the term 'reins' in the King James Version to refer to this part of our 'Inner Man', the Hebrew word for 'kidneys'. " http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2017/05/17/bill-is-back-on-the-web/

So here you have it, the man who thinks with his kidneys: https://billgothard.com/

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Mollie

[Sew Sumi]

Well, Boob, the Bateses, Wallers, etc. have all thrown in with the shiny, new IBLP/ATI, so it will be intresting to see how many people publicly back him now. We know that the aforementioned people can't do that, since as we saw from the Big Sandy pictures, they are the new face of IBLP. Same nasty teachings, different packaging. 

I still can't believe that Waller, previously Gothard's personal assistant, divorced himself. I mean, this was the idiot who waterskiied in a suit just to show how conservative he was. But then, I guess he saw the writing on the wall when board members dropped like flies, and the three that were left (Bates, Paine, and another guy whose name slips my memory at the moment) staged the coup that ousted Billy Boy. 

[louannems]

Princilla's husband no longer works for Gothard?  Do we know what type of job he now has?

[Absolom]

David still works for ATI/IBLP.  Gothard was kicked out of the organization he founded. 

[Sew Sumi]

Right. David is the head of ATI at the moment, and Tim Levudusky is the president of IBLP, the parent organization. It's Gothard who is gone. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[awaken]

Gross. All of it. 

[MunichNark]

Yikes, that piece of shit is back? No shame there, obviously. And I am sure that a few people will support him, although I don't see the ATI or whatever they are called crowd rallying, they are far too fond of their own piece of cake.

I reckon that Churchie got it right why people support them, the Duggars that is. Partly from a sense of "they be religious, they be Godly", partly from a sense of "ah squeee, lookit, a big close family with all them childers being bestet of friends" and partly for nostalgia.

I've not been able to quite comprehend this particular notion of nostalgia yet, that in US films and TV shows, there's often a sense of tweeness and nostalgia, yet in reality, their (your) towns and cities do not accommodate the white picket fences, everybody talks to each other and walks everywhere at all. If people actually wanted this, surely this would happen?

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, MunichNark said:

Yikes, that piece of shit is back? No shame there, obviously. And I am sure that a few people will support him, although I don't see the ATI or whatever they are called crowd rallying, they are far too fond of their own piece of cake.

 

He's getting a lot of firm through primarily anonymous support online (and, I expect, in real life although that's being done quietly and anonymously for the most part as well.) He has another damn "ministry" now, equally convoluted and ridiculous as well as equally aimed at raking in cash as his numerous previous ones. And I expect it's working, to at least some degree, because for some reason a lot of people seem to think that the road to spiritual betterment runs through hideous, slimy low-life grifters that most of us can't even stand to look at let alone take orders from. Go figure.

I do understand why Jim Bob loves Gothard, since he too is a hideous slimy low-life grifter in an almost identical mold except intellectually slower and more in the country than the suburb mold. But why Jim Bob has apparently not managed to spawn a single kid with the wit to notice that his or her entire life has been built on fealty to a couple of piles of slime is a mystery to me.

[LilJen]

17 hours ago, Mollie said:

Just when you thought you've heard the last from Bill Gothard, he's B A C K!

"Bill and his ministry have relaunched his personal website, BillGothard.com.  It features many of the over 20 books he has written over the past four years.  He continues traveling from time to time to speak.  At 82 he shows no signs of slowing down.

"A new focus in a number of his books is the 'gut brain', the principle that we do more thinking and planning with our 'gut' than we do with the grey matter between our ears. Scripture uses the term 'reins' in the King James Version to refer to this part of our 'Inner Man', the Hebrew word for 'kidneys'. " http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2017/05/17/bill-is-back-on-the-web/

So here you have it, the man who thinks with his kidneys: https://billgothard.com/

Apparently dirt can be electrified. This is one of the brilliant insights he's received in the last 20 months, in which he wrote 20 books. One has to wonder about the quality of said books. 

Quote

Let’s Restore God’s Creation Design

The fluorescent tubes pictured above were simply stuck in the ground. They all lit up because they were under power lines, and the dirt absorbed the electrical energy.

God energized dirt by the power of His Word when He created Adam. Every day in the Garden, God renewed Adam’s power and light by daily talks. This is precisely what God wants to do in us through day and night meditation.

[MunichNark]

I wasn't quite sure where to post this, but watch this, around the 2:32 mark........Joy throws her Bible carelessly on the table. I had to rewatch to make sure I saw correctly.

I wouldn't in a million years handle any Bible in such a careless and disrespectful way. This really expresses such disdain for the Book that they claim to love, respect and adhere to. How do they even reconcile that?

 

[Mollie]

1 hour ago, MunichNark said:

I wasn't quite sure where to post this, but watch this, around the 2:32 mark........Joy throws her Bible carelessly on the table. I had to rewatch to make sure I saw correctly.

I wouldn't in a million years handle any Bible in such a careless and disrespectful way. This really expresses such disdain for the Book that they claim to love, respect and adhere to. How do they even reconcile that?

 

What I find amazing about that video clip is that Michelle was still stocked up on pregnancy tests five years after Josie was born and Michelle was 48 years old!

[tabloidlover]

And the award for most awkward pregnancy announcement goes to...

[EAG46]

I think she threw the Bible onto the table, not the floor.  But yeah you don't treat a holy book that way.  I was taught that if you dropped a prayer book or a copy of the Tanakh, you kissed it in apology after picking it up.  [And couldn't she just come out and say "Mom I nabbed a few of your pregnancy tests and they came out positive" rather than go through all of that roundabout nonsense?]  

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, EAG46 said:

I think she threw the Bible onto the table, not the floor.  But yeah you don't treat a holy book that way.  I was taught that if you dropped a prayer book or a copy of the Tanakh, you kissed it in apology after picking it up.  [And couldn't she just come out and say "Mom I nabbed a few of your pregnancy tests and they came out positive" rather than go through all of that roundabout nonsense?]  

Yeah, I was taught you don't even put anything *atop of* a bible, assume it may be true for other religions also.

[Portia]

Personally I don't find anything disrespectful about the Bible being tossed onto the table on that video. I think this is just a matter of "different strokes for different folks." I was brought up to have great reverence for the Word of God, but the emphasis was on the message more than the object.  Physically kissing a Bible or not allowing any object to  be placed on top of that book are completely unfamiliar concepts to me. Not wrong--just unfamiliar. Many Evangelicals carry their Bibles around a lot...I wonder if that could be one reason for their more "casual" relationship with their Books. When my kids were little I constantly nagged them to take good care of their Bibles, but they always ended up getting a bit grimy and worn out because they were being lugged to church camp, Bible Drill, VBS, Sunday school, etc. Ultimately I was happier that the books were being used than I was upset at having to replace them every few years.

I do understand that physical actions can indicate  a lack of respect. That's why I never let my kids run and jump in the sanctuary of our church even if the service was long over...although if I'm being honest,  that was more about me not wanting to offend other people than being worried  that the kids would offend God. To me, the heart attitude is much more important. But again, I don't mean to belittle anyone else's attitudes toward "proper" religious behavior. I'm just saying MMV.

Do we know if any of the Duggars or the new inlaws favor an electronic Bible?  I'd estimate than well over 50 percent of the people at my Baptist church use their phones now instead of carrying a physical Bible. But I'd guess that the Duggars would tend toward the traditional?

Edited June 5, 2017 by Portia
syntax

[Absolom]

I remember being shocked when a younger cousin of mine lectured me about Bible etiquette as a kid.  I'd never heard of such and we were regular church goes.  I still wouldn't throw a Bible around, but I don't throw books of any kind either.

 

We did have this discussion back in the day when the episode aired.  :)

[Aja]

What's important to remember is that the Duggars aren't Christian. If you define a Christian as someone who at least attempts to lead his or her life according to the teachings of the Bible. 

[awaken]

 That is one of the most staged, rehearsed scenes I've ever seen. The only one who actually seemed surprised was joy. 

[questionfear]

10 hours ago, EAG46 said:

I think she threw the Bible onto the table, not the floor.  But yeah you don't treat a holy book that way.  I was taught that if you dropped a prayer book or a copy of the Tanakh, you kissed it in apology after picking it up.  [And couldn't she just come out and say "Mom I nabbed a few of your pregnancy tests and they came out positive" rather than go through all of that roundabout nonsense?]  

When I worked at Borders we were told to always stock the Qu'ran on the top shelf, regardless of alphabet, out of respect. 

[ariel]

I was raised Catholic & we were taught to be respectful of our bibles.  Maybe that's different with the KJV followers.

Edited June 7, 2017 by ariel

[AUgirl]

I'm Catholic and this whole new trend of Bible "journaling" drives me nuts. To me it's disrespectful to basically turn your Bible into a coloring book. 

[MunichNark]

I had to google that since ive never heard of it, but goodness gracious me, seriously?!?

That looks absolutely horrendous?

Who does that??? If you like drawing, either buy a colouring book or draw on plain paper. Why would you scribble in a Bible??

as for throwing the good book around like joy did, no. Just no. If you have any respect for religion at all, you do not do it. Just goes to show how little true substance they have.

[queenanne]

Yeah, I... don't understand that.  I remember religious bookstores selling something like a crayon for highlighting passages, but that's like a textbook to me and a Bible does get used as a textbook in many situations.  (Though I have to admit, if a publisher *sold* a Bible like that with the illustrations intact from someone who knew what they were doing,  I might think it was a nice idea, so maybe I need to spend some more time percolating over the thought.)