Whiskey Cavalier - General Discussion

[MissLucas]

Hey! Where's my cheesy-awesome cover? I know they were only in France for a short time but still. 

I thought Todd was the mole? I don't want to lose Emma or Maggie *sniff*

Solid episode - good use of the villain-plays-mindgames trope to illustrate how much the team has grown. Added bonus: a couple more Lego bricks for building Ray's redemption arch. It was inevitable and I actually liked his goofy attempts to win Will's forgiveness and the team's acceptance throughout the season. I'm also okay with a Ray-Susan pairing but I hope it's gonna take some time  to get there because I enjoy their dynamic at the moment more than Frankie and Will's - probably because it does not feel as much a sure thing as the main pairing.

[nilyank]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I'm also okay with a Ray-Susan pairing but I hope it's gonna take some time  to get there because I enjoy their dynamic at the moment more than Frankie and Will's - probably because it does not feel as much a sure thing as the main pairing.

I don't mind either. They have shown them bonding/understanding each other since around the second episode. Plus they have nice chemistry.

[shapeshifter]

Just watched 1.4 "Hearts & Minds"

I loathe torture porn for so many reasons, but Scott Folley did do some nice body acting when Will was paralyzed.

[phalange]

Jai was so funny this episode. Caucasian Corners and WASPington slayed me. And his payback at the end for Will's bonding session was perfect. Also Standish going to hug Will and saying "excuse me" to the guy on the floor. 

Hate-flirting is a perfect term for how Will and Frankie communicate. Love it. 

[shapeshifter]

Does this show have the highest body count of shows currently airing?

[Driad]

There was a new episode tonight?  My schedule did not say "new" and the description sounded familiar, so I didn't watch.  Is there a summary somewhere?  

[tennisgurl]

"Caucasian Corners and WASPington." That was hilarious, clearly Will and Jai are the character pairing that we needed more of this whole time. And his revenge was appropriately devious.  

Good episode this week, knocking even more tropes off the trope list! The whole sequence where Will was on the table and went from bugging Jai and making jokes to saying how he hoped he would make it to Christmas and hoped he wouldn't die because his parents would be heartbroken was really well acted. And he did a lot of good body language acting, especially when he was paralyzed and flopping around. And I would bet money he got that whole "Maybe I am bluffing...or maybe not" bit from watching The Princess Bride on repeat. 

Hee, apparently You've Got Mail is Ray and Wills movie. Yeah, sucks to be cheated on, huh Ray? I do love that, as sweet and touchy feely and all about team building and friendship as Will is, he just has zero time for Ray. With him, its all sarcastic put downs and sarcastic eye rolling, its hilarious. And very understandable. 

I will have to use "hate-flirting" in the future, its a great way to describe Will and Frankie's dynamic. I've enjoyed the last few episodes a lot, having a bit more drama, but I miss the foreign language remakes of pop songs! My play list aint gonna fill itself!

[andipandi]

ray and wills movie should have been princess bride, yes!

[HighHopes]

17 hours ago, Driad said:

There was a new episode tonight?  My schedule did not say "new" and the description sounded familiar, so I didn't watch.  Is there a summary somewhere?  

This episode was original 1x04, so that might be way it didn't show up as new for some people? They switched the air dates for episodes 11 and 12 too so make sure you check your recordings!! 

This episode was supposed to come earlier in the season and it felt like it It was a weird mix of early season show/team and later season Will/Frankie and their relationship. I still don't understand why it was moved to episode 9, but maybe it will make sense after next week's episode. I did enjoy learning more about Will and Jai but I wish this episode had focused on and explored Frankie more. We got some about her ability to lead a team, but I definitely wanted more and how she was feeling when a team member was in danger. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by HighHopes
Episodes 11 and 12 were switched. Not 10 and 11z

[Loandbehold]

3 hours ago, HighHopes said:

This episode was supposed to come earlier in the season and it felt like it It was a weird mix of early season show/team and later season Will/Frankie and their relationship. I still don't understand why it was moved to episode 9, but maybe it will make sense after next week's episode. I did enjoy learning more about Will and Jai but I wish this episode had focused on and explored Frankie more. We got some about her ability to lead a team, but I definitely wanted more and how she was feeling when a team member was in danger. 

Yeah, the episode switch was rather jarring. My first thought was that they held onto this episode for, what, 4 weeks? Why? It did away with a lot of the team building that we've been watching.

As for the story itself, some real nice acting by Scott Foley and Jai's reactions to Will's pouring out his heart was fantastic. As was his revenge.

The Dead Drop is the fully-stocked-yet-never-open bar in NYC. "The Hive" is located in England, right? So, where was Will being held captive? 'Cause it didn't take the team very long to get to him even though the location of the site was two hours from [______] city.

"Hate-flirting" is an awesome description.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, Loandbehold said:

Yeah, the episode switch was rather jarring. My first thought was that they held onto this episode for, what, 4 weeks? Why? It did away with a lot of the team building that we've been watching.

As for the story itself, some real nice acting by Scott Foley and Jai's reactions to Will's pouring out his heart was fantastic. As was his revenge.

The Dead Drop is the fully-stocked-yet-never-open bar in NYC. "The Hive" is located in England, right? So, where was Will being held captive? 'Cause it didn't take the team very long to get to him even though the location of the site was two hours from [______] city.

"Hate-flirting" is an awesome description.

I was wondering the same... what was so special about this episode that they had to delay it?  

Was also wondering about the locations.  The Hive is the HQ in London.  The team went to the Ukraine, deal went bad, Will got kidnapped.  Then cut and next scene they are back in England.  Why?  Why wouldn't they have stayed in the Ukraine and just had others at the Hive direct them?  Then once they got a lead they went back to the Ukraine.  Maybe this show has teleporters.

In other news... Scott Foley's chest hair went gray.  When did we all become so old?

[Sandman]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

In other news... Scott Foley's chest hair went gray.  When did we all become so old?

Whaa? The thought of Knoll with gray chest hair is making my brain want to turn itself inside out. ("I'm not OLD! You're old..."). Erm.

As you were, friends.

[Jacks-Son]

I was wondering when they would air the vaunted episode #4 that would reveal something relationship wise.  If this was supposed to be it, then it was very overblown.  I agree with others that this episode was anticlimactic and didn't meet the hype. This episode was just an average episode.

The only thing that even remotely seemed relationship related was the slip of the tongue about Susan and Frankie meeting for pizza on a Friday when they both told Will that they had prior engagements.  It's sort of obvious that the ladies excluded Will because he's the subject of their pizza date.  Who wants emo-Will along for girl's night about boys.  Also, Frankie might open up to Susan about her feelings for Will. How else would Susan know that Frankie's praise of Emma as a good fit for Will and earn the subsequent "That's very mature of you!"

I did enjoy Jai's discomfort in having to listen to Will's attempts at bonding and laughed at his revenge.  That's it; plus Frankie's total lack of empathy with regard to a team member's plight.  She seemed shocked that the others were so worried about saving Will and that they greeted his return with sighs of relief.  I know she had to wonder how Will can engender such loyalty while she can't and must hate him for it. (Not really, but Frankie can be weird like that).

Standish was a bit more mature in this episode, so I'll cut him a break, he IS NSA and not CIA or FBI.

[Thomas Crown]

The out of sequence airing of episodes has been annoying since I really can't tell why some episodes have been moved around. 

It took me a few episodes to finally hook me, but I'm really starting to like this show as the cast finally clicked for me in the last few episodes. I know it's not breaking any new ground but it's a fun show which is nice to have.  I'm hoping that it gets renewed, but I'm sure ABC will wind up disappointing me like it did with "Deception" and "Forever".  

Btw, the opening credits are fantastic!

[Camera One]

I fell behind two weeks and I only watched the April 17th one ("Confessions of a Dangerous Mind").  I wish there were individual episode threads.

I thought this one was alright.  I didn't find Dylan Walsh to be that great a villain.  The whole reveal of secrets to cause rifts between the team members didn't work very well.  I don't think they even had a conversation debriefing what Susan wrote about Jai.  The villain's plan was convoluted as hell.  If he had so many insiders working for him, there must have been an easier way.  The show is still very bland and predictable and I still can't get into any of the characters, though there's always a hint that it might get better.

[kassygreene]

Show will be available on demand on Xfinity until September, and possibly that long on Hulu, so I plan to re-watch in production order.  After this week's episode I think it will flow much better.

[Camera One]

I watched "Hearts and Minds" and count me in on wondering why the heck this episode was delayed and why they decided to shuffle the episode order.  If anything, this episode showed how the characters began to see themselves as a team.  It should have aired at its intended spot.  Other than that, I found it an average episode, not great and not bad.

[WendyCR72]

Wait! That ending?! WHAT?

[HighHopes]

I am not mad at this episode, just disappointed. It was easy to call that Emma would be the one to be killed and that Tina was a part of The Trust weeks ago. Villainizing and fridging the female characters really isn't a good look for the show. And Susan/Ray and Susan keeping it a secret from Will will not end well at all. 

There's three episodes left (probably of the series) and this episode was not one of the best. The Frankie/Will stuff felt inappropriate given what Will was going through too. And Frankie telling him that he saved her/changed didn't seem legit either. 

It was a mess, and so far this show has been above the usual tropes but my group chat called all 3 twists weeks ago from the little info we had. And that's not being above tropes but just going the usual route with them instead: Evil guest-star significant other is actually evil, main character's significant other is fridged for man!pain, secret keeping hook-ups. All overdone and cliche. 

[WendyCR72]

Just me...but I have no problem with female baddies. I don't think there is anything sexist since this show clearly also has plenty of bad males, too. As for Susan and Ray, well...if this show sees a S2, which I don't know...I can eventually see Will giving his blessing and being more hurt that it was kept from him. As is said, the cover up is worse than the lie.

I guess we'll see. Maybe.

[phalange]

I was wondering if they were going to go there with Tina, and they did. Will is going to lose it when he finds out, which I imagine will be in the finale. 

Frankie's look of horror when Ray said, "seventeen and a half!" slayed me. Same, Frankie, same. 

Jai and Standish's evolving handshakes are the best. According to the exec producer on Twitter, the handshake is something the actors do for real, so it was included in the show. 

[buttersister]

Having checked out halfway through the pilot, I watched tonight to see if I was missing anything. Cliche writing and directing, acting in keeping with that and the constant distraction of whatever Scott Foley had done to his face. So, no.

[tennisgurl]

I figured that either Emma or Tina would be the bad guy, so I guess Tina was our evil winner. Poor Standish will be so hurt, and Will will be so pissed. Poor Emma though, I guess it was inevitable as the third person in the triangle. She didnt end up being evil at least, so thats something.

Jai and Standish's handshake was so hilariously intricate. It was really kind of sweet how Jai was awkwardly trying to reach out, and his fear that people wouldn't miss him if he was gone. 

Of course Frankie loved edgy Will, until he starts to get a little TOO edgy for her liking. I do love how Frankie is still super pissed at Ray on Wills behalf about the whole cheating thing. Maybe she just liked holding grudges against annoying people, but its still weirdly sweet. 

So Susan gets the last shot in this week! Maybe that will go aways to making Will forgive her when he finds out about her boning Ray behind his back. Oh yeah, thats not gonna be a fun conversation. I think he might end up being more hurt by them lying then hooking up, especially after what Ray did with his fiance.

Edited May 2, 2019 by tennisgurl

[HighHopes]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just me...but I have no problem with female baddies. I don't think there is anything sexist since this show clearly also has plenty of bad males, too. As for Susan and Ray, well...if this show sees a S2, which I don't know...I can eventually see Will giving his blessing and being more hurt that it was kept from him. As is said, the cover up is worse than the lie.

I guess we'll see. Maybe.

I don't mind female baddies, and I wish more shows would embrace them. But to have to female supporting characters, and then to have one significant other be evil and the other one be fridged just screams uninspired writing. One or the other! 

I held out hope until the end that Emma faked her death, and it was done in part to draw out the The Trust/Tina. (And I may still be hoping for this, but the pool of blood around her does leave me hopeless). 

@tennisgurl Susan killing the guy in the end is giving me bad vibes. I hope I am wrong and that she too isn't evil, but killing the guy before he could talk has me really worried. I know the guy had a gun, but still! I think they said that Will doesn't know how deep Ollerman is right? 

Edited May 2, 2019 by HighHopes

[missbonnie]

I myself love this show, so it stands to reason that it won't get another season. I get that the writing isn't Emmy material, but I get a couple of laughs every episode so it works for me. Standish and Jai are my favorites. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by missbonnie

[shapeshifter]

Ophelia Lovibond/Emma sadly saying "I will miss you" right before she was assassinated was the last best part of the episode. Which was less than 10 minutes in.

1 hour ago, phalange said:

Jai and Standish's evolving handshakes are the best. According to the exec producer on Twitter, the handshake is something the actors do for real, so it was included in the show. 

Or maybe this was the best part. 

Need better writers?

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, HighHopes said:

I don't mind female baddies, and I wish more shows would embrace them. But to have to female supporting characters, and then to have one significant other be evil and the other one be fridged just screams uninspired writing. One or the other! 

I held out hope until the end that Emma faked her death, and it was done in part to draw out the The Trust/Tina. (And I may still be hoping for this, but the pool of blood around her does leave me hopeless). 

@tennisgurl Susan killing the guy in the end is giving me bad vibes. I hope I am wrong and that she too isn't evil, but killing the guy before he could talk has me really worried. I know the guy had a gun, but still! I think they said that Will doesn't know how deep Ollerman is right? 

I could swear when Susan made the shot, though, the guy was about to grab something (and maybe shoot Will?), so I can see why Susan did what she did. Her face afterwards didn't look at all secretive to me, just surprised - and even a bit traumatized.

[AnimeMania]

Emma, die young, and leave a good-looking corpse. Was that death pose supposed to symbolize something?

Upset that Frankie spends 2 minutes fighting some skinny guy on the stairs after only spending 2 seconds each fighting all the other guys. Plot demands.

[Trey]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I could swear when Susan made the shot, though, the guy was about to grab something (and maybe shoot Will?), so I can see why Susan did what she did.

I'm pretty sure he was pulling out an ankle gun so she had to shoot him.

[HighHopes]

51 minutes ago, Trey said:

I'm pretty sure he was pulling out an ankle gun so she had to shoot him.

Yeah, I know there was an extra gun. I was just waiting for another twist to this episode. I also can't remember where I saw it, but a few weeks ago someone was speculating that Susan was in The Trust. So my mind went to "killing the guy who could reveal that you're working against the team". Plus I thought that Ollerman said that Will had no idea how deep The Trust was or something right? And what better way to hurt Will then have his best friend be working against him? 

To be fair, I have a tendency to come up with extreme "What If" theories, so I am most likely wrong and will be happy when I am wrong too. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Emma, die young, and leave a good-looking corpse. Was that death pose supposed to symbolize something?

Maybe a stepped-on butterfly that will dramatic trigger future changes?
Or moth that flew too close to the flame?
It was a great cinematographic shot, but I don't think the show is that deep. 

[HighHopes]

30 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe a stepped-on butterfly that will dramatic trigger future changes?
Or moth that flew too close to the flame?
 It was a great cinematographic shot, but I don't think the show is that deep. 

Some interesting Tweets from the EP/Showrunner:

Edited May 2, 2019 by HighHopes

[andipandi]

I actually found myself craving this show this week. Ah, after a long tense episode of Game of Thrones, and other stressful crap in my life, give me one hour of bubblegum spy show with witty banter!

Then: love interest dies. Show is mopey. Although VengeanceWill is intense and the fight scenes are again great, too much moping and I feel like they are playing their plot cards before the dealer calls. Could have used a few more episodes of just, you know, missions.

[Camera One]

This show isn't rising above the clichés for me.  It was obvious that either Will's girlfriend or Standish's girlfriend was going to turn out to be a traitor.  The whole vengeance angle was also predictable and ultimately boring.  The generic Evil Organization isn't intriguing either.  Either go for edgy drama or light spy adventure because neither is working very well right now.

[Texasmom1970]

Loved beady eyes getting excited when she told him to wait for er in the car

[memememe76]

Susan's "This!" had me in stitches. I have grown quite fond of the show. 

[kickingnames]

Stray thoughts from the episode:

Great — this show has made me fall in love with the Jai/Standish bromance. Jai just looked so adorably proud of himself after doing their handshake! And I love that Jai thinks mayo on fries is a good thing, and Standish has no qualms about expressing how crazy gross that is, and they are both okay with that. 

I didn’t watch Scandal, but from the tiny bits I’d heard about Jake, I imagine “grieving badly” Will was reminiscent of that character.

Okay, having never seen Josh Hopkins in anything before (at least not that I remember), I’m sort of starting to see the actor’s appeal — if he was playing an actually mature grown man, instead of Ray, I’d be into that. But apparently Susan is somehow into Ray as a person, not just comfort sex or whatever they’re calling that. I mean, she asked for his compliment/joke segment, which had no connection to their trysts, and she was defending him to everyone even before the hookup. Can’t blame it all on the grief.

I get that they’re telling the story through the wardrobe choices, although I did not like that red dress at all (or Frankie’s slicked hair. I did notice that, in the scene where Frankie stops Will from torching that guy and then realizes that “two of her” was not such a great idea, Will and Frankie’s outfits match. Well played, show. (ETA: those could just be their “stealth mission” outfits, but still...)

Edited May 3, 2019 by kickingnames
Typing while half-conscious is not good

[blackwing]

Great episode this week.  No doubt the show needs to keep alive the possibility of a Will/Frankie hookup so Emma had to go.  Not surprised at all that Tina is part of the evil organisation.  Didn't they confirm that she actually is CIA however?  Curious to see how her story pans out, was she always part of evil org and planted into the CIA, or was she a greedy agent who was bribed/bought?

Susan and Ray...ugh.  Not surprised, but ugh.  First Ray stole Will's girlfriend from behind his back.  Now he's sleeping with Will's best friend and not telling him.  When Will finds out, this is sure to set his relationship with Ray even farther back.

[HighHopes]

10 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

I need to know more about Ray and his background, because right now he seems to just be kind of a goof who steals his bff's girl and can be charming if he wants to be.

I think we might get more about that soon, or at least more about Will, Susan, and Ray at Quantico: 

[Jacks-Son]

On 5/1/2019 at 11:31 PM, WendyCR72 said:

On 5/1/2019 at 9:34 PM, HighHopes said:

I could swear when Susan made the shot, though, the guy was about to grab something (and maybe shoot Will?), so I can see why Susan did what she did. Her face afterwards didn't look at all secretive to me, just surprised - and even a bit traumatized.

Well show, you fucked up! First off, I agree with this point. Susan basically had no choice, as it appeared to me, the guy was going to shoot Will (perhaps in the back) and she protected her bestie. I can’t see Susan being evil, although her sleeping with Ray 17 1/2 times (What’s half sex? Is that supposed to be a “Lewinsky”?) is certainly evil. I was hoping the show would not go there and I shared Frankie’s horror at the situation. Susan sleeping with Ray makes no sense, especially with their excuse. When you have to hide a relationship and both parties are single, there’s shame involved. Susan is too smart for that shit and it’s really demeaning and insulting for this woman to be so uncharacteristically needy.  I like the show, and actually liked this episode, despite Emma’s death, as the characters showed some growth especially Frankie’s realization that her wish for Will to be less emotional actually is not what she really wants or needs.

Does this new twist mean that Will may be forced to kill Tina, his wife IRL?

[WendyCR72]

9 minutes ago, SweetTooth said:

And okay, you can't really control who you're attracted to, and Ray did save her life. They say after a traumatic experience, your relationship can intensify. Right now the relationship seems purely physical.

I...don't know about that. At least on Ray's end. After Susan basically told Ray they couldn't happen again, he seemed crushed, and the way he said he "had a meeting" before he took off in a hurry, he seemed upset, to me. And as much as I didn't want to feel sorry for him, I did.

[BabyVegas]

32 minutes ago, SweetTooth said:

I mean, I do understand that he feels horrible about Gigi and what he did to his best friend. I also get that he's trying hard to repent for it. 

What's frustrating me about this show right now is that this doesn't track at all, in my mind. Ray clearly felt bad about getting caught, but if he really felt horrible, I don't think he would still be trying to get back into Will's good graces. As far as I'm concerned, the only good part about Ray is how much Frankie hates him.

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

What’s half sex?

Just the tip.

Quote

Does this new twist mean that Will may be forced to kill Tina, his wife IRL?

What a delicious idea!!

[Ailianna]

I thought the half might be when Will interrupted them.  

[kickingnames]

“Ray as an agent” seems almost night and day different from “Ray as a regular person”. For instance, even though he claimed to have no idea what he was gonna do, Ray in the scene when he confronted Susan’s kidnappers seemed quite capable and confident, even during his ruse. Like, I want to get to know that Ray. I’m trying to convince myself that that’s the Ray Susan is attracted to — we just don’t see that side very often as the audience.

But they have a long way to go if they wanna Chandler/Monica the Ray/Susan relationship for me.

[Jacks-Son]

4 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I thought the half might be when Will interrupted them.  

Wrong “them”. I cannot accept Ray & Susan, just like I cannot accept Tina and Standish. I know it’s  cute to force two people who would never, ever, get together IRL,  but it diminishes my regard for Susan. I couldn’t even see Gigi with Ray. Not that it should be a determining factor, but I can’t even come up with a catchy portmanteau for them. That’s how disgusting the thought is to me. It’s like your favorite ex-girlfriend dating the high school football player because he looks cute in his jersey.  Ugh!! That’s a wrap!

[AnimeMania]

Ray Prince & Susan Sampson = Raysan 

Tina and Edgar Standish = Tigar

[Jacks-Son]

Oh my, you took it as a challenge.  Bravo.  👏

[Ailianna]

Ray + Gigi = Raygi (Ragey)?

[kickingnames]

25 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

Ray + Gigi = Raygi (Ragey)?

They certainly made Will ”Raygi”. 🥁 

(Sorry, I had to.)