S02.E04: Other Women

[Umbelina]

You guys can take this tot the book thread if you want.  I'll clarify in either one of those.

[Scarlett45]

I absolutely felt horrid for June when she saw Omar's body hanging there. The guilt she must've felt- another family split a part, another woman subject to ritual rape, another child separated from their parents. If she can keep it together it will be a testament to her character. I think knowing that Hannah is out there still, will keep her going. June is such a creepier- her climbing in bed with June was such an emotional violation, all the creepier because its wasn't sexual. 

I actually enjoyed the flashback scenes regarding Luke, June, and Helen (?) Luke's ex wife. First off, I want to say that June is not responsible for Luke cheating on Helen (that is on Luke), and I do agree that Helen should've taken her issues up with her husband and NOT June but her reaction was not surprising to me. It would've been more understandable had they recently separated, not 3 months ago. However knowing what I know of life, I doubt Luke told her "we are getting divorced, Im sorry." He probably initially told her that he fell in love with June and THAT was why he was leaving her, telling her that he still loved her BUT etc etc, so he wouldn't be the bad guy (again a common scenario) so Helen trying to rationalize it thought "hey, if I calmly explain to the other woman that I love him, she will back off because its just a sex thing" and she got angrier and angrier.  It's also easier to be angry at June because she never loved June, had no happy memories with June, no history with June etc. June handled it well, she didn't let the woman verbally abuse her but she didn't act as if she was the victim in the situation. I also thought the running into her at the coffee shop was good scene, had she been totally unhinged it would've made them look like saints, but no she just walked away (what else was she to do)- also at least 1.5-2yrs later (I am basing that time line off of pregnancy and Hannah being 8ish months old from the looks of things) she has probably gotten over Luke but that doesn't mean she wants to be friends with them!

I am not spoiled but something is up with Waterford and his assignment to Canada.....

Edited May 12, 2018 by Scarlett45

[Sbeetle]

I just can’t get over how physically abusive Serena is. I was stunned at her choking June and her slapping poor Rita. Her mood shifts are truly frightening. 

[SWLinPHX]

It's good that June/Offred is now finally able to stop resisting and is being more mindful than willful.  Aunt Lydia was trying to help her through her pregnancy but all she did was to defy her and act difficult.  When you think about that household, Aunt Lydia is the glue that holds it all together.  She has the conviction of her beliefs.  She's strict at times, but truly has everyone's best interests at heart it seems deep down.

[littlemommy]

...Aunt Lydia, is that you? ;)

Edited May 13, 2018 by littlemommy

[AmandaUnbidden]

4 hours ago, littlemommy said:

...Aunt Lydia, is that you? ;)

Dying! ? That’s exactly what I was thinking! Aunt Lydia has infiltrated the forums! 

On a more serious note, I think I understand what you were trying to say @SWLinPHX. Ann Dowd does do such a masterful job at being the abuser. She actually makes viewers believe she is only abusing everyone for their own good. Standing ovation to her!

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

6 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

It's good that June/Offred is now finally able to stop resisting and is being more mindful than willful.  Aunt Lydia was trying to help her through her pregnancy but all she did was to defy her and act difficult.  When you think about that household, Aunt Lydia is the glue that holds it all together.  She has the conviction of her beliefs.  She's strict at times, but truly has everyone's best interests at heart it seems deep down.

Is this some sick joke. It must be.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Umbelina]

Quite a few people seem to agree with Aunt Lydia though.  It's all June's fault, so how out there is the idea that society has Aunt Lydias really? 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Umbelina

[Anela]

10 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

It's good that June/Offred is now finally able to stop resisting and is being more mindful than willful.  Aunt Lydia was trying to help her through her pregnancy but all she did was to defy her and act difficult.  When you think about that household, Aunt Lydia is the glue that holds it all together.  She has the conviction of her beliefs.  She's strict at times, but truly has everyone's best interests at heart it seems deep down.

She threatened her with execution. She has people's hands burned, or chopped off. I know what you mean, but I also think she's insane. 

[marinw]

On 5/12/2018 at 8:09 PM, Sbeetle said:

I just can’t get over how physically abusive Serena is. I was stunned at her choking June and her slapping poor Rita. Her mood shifts are truly frightening. 

Yvonne Strahovski makes Serena almost as terrifying as Aunt Lydia. Almost.

Speaking of, I don’t really need to know about Lydia’s backstory. She’s the Darth Vader of the story, I don’t need a freaking prequel to tell me why she’s so evil. Does she have any other handmaids to micomanage?

So is June truly drinking the cool aid now? If so I don’t blame her.

Edited May 14, 2018 by marinw

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 5/9/2018 at 2:38 PM, Boofish said:

I have nothing to say that has not been said except Luke's ex-wife has a GLORIOUS head of hair

I know her from Grandfathered and Pitch!!

Serena getting into bed with June at the end FREAKED ME OUT.  EAAAHhhhhhhHHEWWWW

I have ZERO desire to know anything more about Serena, or Fred, or the Aunt Lydia.  Fuck them all

Edited May 14, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Pepper the Cat]

My take on why Nick is still safe.

Nick has been proven to have “live Sperm”.

He made a baby with a Handmaid. I bet while we are led to believe that this is a deep dark secret that in reality, Nick is now being pimped out to other Handmaids.

Poor Nick

[GreekGeek]

17 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

It's good that June/Offred is now finally able to stop resisting and is being more mindful than willful.  Aunt Lydia was trying to help her through her pregnancy but all she did was to defy her and act difficult.  When you think about that household, Aunt Lydia is the glue that holds it all together.  She has the conviction of her beliefs.  She's strict at times, but truly has everyone's best interests at heart it seems deep down.

People are objecting to this comment, but the thing about this show is that no one is pure evil (or pure good). Aunt Lydia has done some horrendous things, like torturing and mutilating the handmaids, but I think she genuinely wants to help June deliver a healthy baby. She snatched that cigarette from Serena and ground it out, after all. 

I'd be curious about her backstory also. Someone above mentioned that she may have been a nun once. She certainly has the religious guilt-mongering down pat, but she also seems really familiar with the details of pregnancy. I'm guessing she was a nurse; we've already seen two nurses who were part of the Gilead movement: one when June gave birth, and the other when Hannah was sick.

One random thought: It's mentioned in the book that the Aunts were given names meant to be familiar and comforting to women. There's Aunt Sara (Sara Lee cakes), and Aunt Elizabeth (Betty Crocker), for example. It would be wild if Aunt Lydia were named for Lydia Pinkham, who manufactured and sold a "women's tonic." Here is her story.

[AngelaHunter]

On 5/9/2018 at 1:25 PM, Empress1 said:

Yeah ... I just really don't want to see 14 episodes of women being tortured. Like, I get it. There needs to be something else to move things along.

 

On 5/9/2018 at 8:02 PM, oldCJ said:

It’s grim and bleak and physically uncomfortable to watch.

Agree all around. It's unrelentingly grim, dark and depressing. So many people are just evil through and through, with no redeeming human qualities of any kind. There is literally not a moment we get to breathe, thinking there may be a short interlude with no new horrors inflicted on anyone. I'm uncomfortable every moment and every time anyone even looks in June's direction, my stomach is in a tighter knot, anticipating another brutality or torture. Honestly, by the end of this ep I was thinking, "Oh, just kill yourself and get it over with, for all of us."

 

On 5/9/2018 at 7:50 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Part of me imagined Serena’s snuggling belly rubs would be what snapped Offred back into June: “Lady, do you mind? I’m trying to sleep here! The baby needs rest. Aunt Lydia said so. Being kidnapped was awfully tiring so GET OUT OF MY BED!”

Yeah, you'd think it might dawn on Serena that choking and freaking out the baby carrier in the middle of the night might not be the best thing for the baby, just as with Aunt Lydia and her show-and-tell-hanging corpse shock/guilt trip. I was half-expecting June to miscarry right there. The Serena groping was, to me, another demonstration of the total depersonalization and dehumanization of June, who is nothing and no one. She's not a person, just a uterus that is the property of others to do with as they please.

I see June as a prisoner of war or a long-term hostage - tortured, enslaved, raped and traumatized  - who must by now be suffering severe PTSD.

[Pepper the Cat]

I was expecting some kind of throw back to  the first episode where June says “i am free” to something about Offred.

[DiabLOL]

Not only do I need to know Aunt Lydia's backstory I DESPERATELY need to know how she spends her "off time". Does she secretly read a favorite book or is she not a rule breaker to the core? Does she kick off her prison matron garb and take a deeply relaxing hot bubble bath? Or is she happy to merely come home and get in bed because breaking spirits is hard work?

[mamadrama]

6 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

Not only do I need to know Aunt Lydia's backstory I DESPERATELY need to know how she spends her "off time". Does she secretly read a favorite book or is she not a rule breaker to the core? Does she kick off her prison matron garb and take a deeply relaxing hot bubble bath? Or is she happy to merely come home and get in bed because breaking spirits is hard work?

I need to know these things as well. I almost always find the "bad" characters the most complex and interesting. Ann Dowd keeps me riveted.

[SWLinPHX]

17 hours ago, Anela said:

She threatened her with execution. She has people's hands burned, or chopped off. I know what you mean, but I also think she's insane. 

Yes, she's very strict (as I said).  But she tried to comfort her many times and even told her that Offred doesn't have to carry June's guilt.  And also, instead of being angry that she ran away, she showed sympathy that she was "kidnapped" against her will.  So that could have gone a lot worse.  When you think about it, all of her disciplines were a direct result of one (or more) of the handmaids defying her.

[chaifan]

2 minutes ago, SWLinPHX said:

Yes, she's very strict (as I said).  But she tried to comfort her many times and even told her that Offred doesn't have to carry June's guilt.  And also, instead of being angry that she ran away, she showed sympathy that she was "kidnapped" against her will.  So that could have gone a lot worse.  When you think about it, all of her disciplines were a direct result of one (or more) of the handmaids defying her.

All this may be true, but Aunt Lydia is still evil.  Pure evil.  Her telling Offred that she doesn't have to carry June's guilt isn't comfort, it's psychological manipulation, brainwashing to the effect that June doesn't exist, Offred doesn't want June to exist, Offred is better off if June doesn't exist.  Justifying her discipline as a result of the handmaids' defiance is like a domestic abuser claiming that he only hits his wife when she makes him angry.  Refusing to kill another person (stoning Janine) should not subject anyone to punishment, at least not in a normal world not ruled by evil people. 

I'd like to see a bit of Lydia's backstory because I'm curious if she is a typical Aunt (are they all that evil) or is she the rainbow unicorn among the Aunts?

[greekmom]

I hope Aunt Lydia gets hers one day soon.  Some torture, some gang raping from the commanders, some mutilation.

How she guilt tripped June with Omar's really pushed her over the edge to cuckoo ville.

Serena is not only a bully but creepy. 

[dleighg]

15 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Her telling Offred that she doesn't have to carry June's guilt isn't comfort, it's psychological manipulation, brainwashing to the effect that June doesn't exist, Offred doesn't want June to exist, Offred is better off if June doesn't exist. 

Exactly. June is bad. June is who killed that nice family. All bad things happen when June is in charge (acting independently, fighting back). Only good things happen when Offred is in charge and following the rules.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, SWLinPHX said:

And also, instead of being angry that she ran away, she showed sympathy that she was "kidnapped" against her will.  So that could have gone a lot worse.  

She's only showing (fake) "sympathy" because June is pregnant, and the uterus must be taken care of and kept safe. Torture could be harmful for the baby. Maybe you're being facetious? Someone who goes around randomly shocking young women with a cattle prod, burning their hands, etc. is not being "strict." This is brutality and sadism that is on the Nazi level of evil. During the pregnancy the torture will be mostly on the mental level, i.e. degradation/humiliation, like barging in while June is bathing and ordering her to wash "down there" , forcing her to drink something so vile she spews it up, and is made to drink more of it. She sits silent in the back of the room during "her" baby shower, like a pregnant prize mare or cow. These are all ways of reminding her of her enslaved condition, where she - as a person - has been erased and her only value is her belly. Mental abuse can be just as dire as physical, and possibly moreso.

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Her telling Offred that she doesn't have to carry June's guilt isn't comfort, it's psychological manipulation, brainwashing to the effect that June doesn't exist,

That is exactly and obviously what it is. Maybe it seems irrational for June to believe that, but I doubt anyone would be rational after a long period of systematic torture, rape and abuse.

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, SWLinPHX said:

Yes, she's very strict (as I said).  But she tried to comfort her many times and even told her that Offred doesn't have to carry June's guilt.  And also, instead of being angry that she ran away, she showed sympathy that she was "kidnapped" against her will.  So that could have gone a lot worse.  When you think about it, all of her disciplines were a direct result of one (or more) of the handmaids defying her.

She had June/Offred chained to a bed and said unless she became Offred, she would be executed.

[marinw]

“By his hand,” Did Fred said that in the presence of the Commander who lost a hand? Haha. I see what he did there.

It was weird to have an all-male scene, with the Commanders bro-ing out and skeet shooting. It was like a twisted version of Dowton Abbey

[dleighg]

8 minutes ago, marinw said:

“By his hand,” Did Fred said that in the presence of the Commander who lost a hand? Haha. I see what he did there.

I noticed that too. The guy with the missing hand looked familiar-- do we know why he lost it? 

ETA: Looked it up (I have a terrible memory :)) He was Janine's Commander (Warren), and they were having an affair (apparently) and Warren's wife asked for him to have the harshest punishment to "save his soul." 

Things from last season get fuzzy in my mind....

Edited May 14, 2018 by dleighg

[Lily H]

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 4:52 AM, SWLinPHX said:

She's strict at times, but truly has everyone's best interests at heart it seems deep down.

Wow, you are going above and beyond in giving Aunt Lydia the benefit of the doubt. "Strict" is a nice euphemism for a fanatical torturer.

And I just wanted to put in my 2 cents regarding the Luke/Annie/June triangle, my own truism:  It takes 2 people to start a relationship, but only 1 to end one.

[bijoux]

13 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

Not only do I need to know Aunt Lydia's backstory I DESPERATELY need to know how she spends her "off time". Does she secretly read a favorite book or is she not a rule breaker to the core? Does she kick off her prison matron garb and take a deeply relaxing hot bubble bath? Or is she happy to merely come home and get in bed because breaking spirits is hard work?

I have a hard time imagining her enjoying anything not sadistic. I'd put my money on self-flagellation before laying down on a bed of nils. That seems in her wheelhouse. 

[Umbelina]

I don't feel like I need to see that much about "what made Aunt Lydia."  I think we've all seen or read about enough "Aunt Lydias" in history or in real life to know that sometimes, hateful, fanatical people, often cloaking themselves in religion, do abominable things to other human beings.

I want to see Ann Dowd, but Aunt Lydia?  There is no possible excuse, and frankly, she's a dime a dozen.  She's not unusual, and THAT is the horror.

[marinw]

7 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

She's not unusual, and THAT is the horror.

The scary thing is that so many "normal" people could become an Aunt Lydia under certian circumstances. 

Aunt Lydia is the soul mate of the "Shame Nun" from a season or two back on Game of Thrones.

[greekmom]

Aunt Lydia reminds me of those uber conservative women police in the strict muslim countries that would either beat another woman or kill her in the street if they see them doing something or wearing something that they shouldn't.

 

One thing that bothers me is that June blames herself for Luke and Helen breaking up.  From the way I understood it, Luke didn't just live with Helen and go cheat on June. I thought that they were living apart and Helen still had hopes that they can work on their marriage while Luke was going for a divorce. If one of the two people in a marriage do not want to work on the relationship, there is nothing that will save it.  Regardless, if June was in the picture or not.  Therefore, I don't blame June.

I do wonder what has happened to Helen in Gilead.  I think she also has become either a handmaid (if she was fertile) or  a martha.  I can't see her attain econowife status as her husband basically betrayed Gilead by leaving with his adulteress (in Gilead's eyes).  So she would be punished by association like Omar's wife. 

[Baltimore Betty]

I noticed a couple things about Gilead, we never see anyone in a wheelchair and we never see any obese people.  

Where do we think the Ecowives were going on that train and there weren't any men on that train.

Why is it so long between Wednesdays?

[chocolatine]

4 minutes ago, greekmom said:

One thing that bothers me is that June blames herself for Luke and Helen breaking up.  From the way I understood it, Luke didn't just live with Helen and go cheat on June. I thought that they were living apart and Helen still had hopes that they can work on their marriage while Luke was going for a divorce. If one of the two people in a marriage do not want to work on the relationship, there is nothing that will save it.  Regardless, if June was in the picture or not.  Therefore, I don't blame June.

When June met Luke, he was still living with his wife, and June and Luke made plans to meet at a hotel room for sex. After they slept together, June said she wanted Luke to leave his wife - and he readily agreed. I don't think she's responsible for ending Luke's marriage, but it wasn't her finest moment. 

[Umbelina]

10 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Aunt Lydia reminds me of those uber conservative women police in the strict muslim countries that would either beat another woman or kill her in the street if they see them doing something or wearing something that they shouldn't.

 

One thing that bothers me is that June blames herself for Luke and Helen breaking up.  From the way I understood it, Luke didn't just live with Helen and go cheat on June. I thought that they were living apart and Helen still had hopes that they can work on their marriage while Luke was going for a divorce. If one of the two people in a marriage do not want to work on the relationship, there is nothing that will save it.  Regardless, if June was in the picture or not.  Therefore, I don't blame June.

I do wonder what has happened to Helen in Gilead.  I think she also has become either a handmaid (if she was fertile) or  a martha.  I can't see her attain econowife status as her husband basically betrayed Gilead by leaving with his adulteress (in Gilead's eyes).  So she would be punished by association like Omar's wife. 

Aunt Lydia told her what happened to Omar's wife.  She's now in training to be a Handmaid, their son was given to a Commander's family.  The real truth is, that probably would have happened anyway, even if he wasn't caught as part of Mayday.  He was Muslim, someone may have suspected, a house search, done.  Or a zillion other ways, Gilead can do what it pleases, and the Econfamilies are at their mercy just like everyone else.

1 minute ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I noticed a couple things about Gilead, we never see anyone in a wheelchair and we never see any obese people.  

Where do we think the Ecowives were going on that train and there weren't any men on that train.

Why is it so long between Wednesdays?

I think the wives were returning from church to their homes.  The husbands are workers and soldiers stationed and fighting in the many wars going on in the colonies.

[fountain]

There has been a lot of talk of June’s responsibility in Omar’s death but I wonder if Omar left June would we blame him for her death? There was really no good option when the safe house was compromised.  They both did the best they could with the situation.

[Emily Thrace]

Something that occurred to me with all the talk about Canada is that unless Gilead reaches as far in land as the Dakotas Gilead doesn't have any oil supplies of thier own.  As I pointed out last year Canada wouldn't invade Gilead automatically. Gilead might attack though if they needed something bad enough and Canada has plenty of oil.  That's probably why we don't see a lot of cars in Gilead they don't have gas to run them. Interestingly that was what brought down the Nazis too in the end.

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, Emily Thrace said:

Something that occurred to me with all the talk about Canada is that unless Gilead reaches as far in land as the Dakotas Gilead doesn't have any oil supplies of thier own.  As I pointed out last year Canada wouldn't invade Gilead automatically. Gilead might attack though if they needed something bad enough and Canada has plenty of oil.  That's probably why we don't see a lot of cars in Gilead they don't have gas to run them. Interestingly that was what brought down the Nazis too in the end.

They have VASTLY reduced their need for oil, and for even basics like electricity.  Most factories are gone.  Food is raised using human (slave) labor.  They hate technology of all kinds, I'm surprised they aren't using wood for the stoves.  Martha's hand wash clothes instead of using washing machines, hand knead bread daily rather than buy it at stores, or use a bread machine, ditto with hand sewing, and yes, very few cars, etc.

They control most of the land between the Atlantic and the Pacific, but great portions of it are waste, and "rebels" fight them in several other places.  I don't think they are in a position of waging war on Canada, their soldiers have their hands full controlling the population and waging war against the hold outs.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Umbelina

[Emily Thrace]

26 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

They have VASTLY reduced their need for oil, and for even basics like electricity.  Most factories are gone.  Food is raised using human (slave) labor.  They hate technology of all kinds, I'm surprised they aren't using wood for the stoves.  Martha's hand wash clothes instead of using washing machines, hand knead bread daily rather than buy it at stores, or use a bread machine, ditto with hand sewing, and yes, very few cars, etc.

They control most of the land between the Atlantic and the Pacific, but great portions of it are waste, and "rebels" fight them in several other places.  I don't think they are in a position of waging war on Canada, their soldiers have their hands full controlling the population and waging war against the hold outs.

They are waging war against Canada (and Britain as well) though as the last couple episodes have established. Any modern war requires massive amounts of oil. Your right Gilead wouldn't attack Canada unless they had something Gilead truly needed. (Canada also wouldn't just attack Gilead since they probably have thier own problems.) Oil makes sense although clean water might also be a possibility. I just think the lack of cars tells it own story. Even in this weeks episode these high ranking men carpooled to the skeet shooting. As Jezebels shows spiritual deprivation doesn't apply to the high ranks so why would these men be carpooling? Unless there truly is a shortage and they are trying to conserve. There is very little oil in the US itself and its only in specific areas Gilead could easily control most of the US and still not have any oil.

[Umbelina]

That could very well be true. 

They aren't waging a combat war with anyone but their own people right now though, or what they consider their own people, anyone who lived in the former USA.  Other counties have all boycotted them (except, in the show, Mexico) but the only wars Gilead is fighting are internal. (within the former boundaries of the USA, not including Alaska and Hawaii, which they've lost.) 

On top of that though?  They really do detest industrialization, and are trying to go back to "a simpler time" before man devastated the planet and reproduction with chemicals, gas, green house gasses, and all the rest.  

There is oil in Texas, and Oklahoma, and several other places around the USA, probably more than enough to fit their greatly reduced needs, but who knows?  You may be right, that oil shortages play into things as well.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Umbelina

[SourK]

My suspension of disbelief is failing a little bit, now. I think that's the natural consequence of expanding a pretty compact story across two seasons of TV. I understand why they need to get June back in the House of Fred for story-telling purposes but this isn't even her first escape attempt. No way would they let her loose in the neighborhood again.

I was actually interested in the POV that June was in a different mindset because she didn't care about keeping her head down anymore. One of the really difficult things about this situation is that exact dilemma -- do I keep my head down and try to wait for this to blow over? History is full of people who did that -- even recent history, like when ISIS started taking over cities. It's a painfully difficult thing to wrestle with, so it was interesting to see what June was like once she had fully given up on the idea of keeping her head down and waiting for it to be over. Now, within an episode or two of having that happen, they've reset her again and I find it disappointing.

 

On 5/9/2018 at 1:16 AM, chocolatine said:

Things are looking very bleak now with Mayday having gone silent and June seemingly accepting her fate, but I have a feeling the scene with the commanders shooting and talking about Canada was shown for a reason. If Fred goes there, I can see the Canadian branch of the resistance kidnapping him and demanding his handmaid as ransom.

I think it's significant that the guy who had his hand cut off was there, too. Remembering that Fred isn't super into the religious aspect of this dictatorship, and that that other dude losing his hand was the moment Fred realized what deep shit he was in, I think his plan is to defect to Canada if he can get them to send him there. It would be interesting to see what would happen, then.

On 5/9/2018 at 5:07 AM, Poohbear617 said:

I would really like to see some of the background of Aunt Lydia.  IRL i am curious about some powerful women who use their position to push and keep other women down thinking that the agenda they are following wont  turn around and bring them down as well no matter how many womens necks they are standing on.  What was lydia like before Giliad? Was it power or faith or self preservation that created this monster.

 

Aunt Lydia is kind of a problem character for me who's starting to read more as "inconsistent" than "complicated" but I would also like some explanation of what kind of person she is and how she got to this place.

On 5/9/2018 at 3:08 PM, Umbelina said:

None of that was June's fault.

The fault lies squarely on the men and women who slaughtered the elected leaders, got rid of the US Constitution, enslaved or murdered the intelligentsia, and anyone else who could stand up to them, anyone else that dared to have a different religion than the new state religion, and have made women not much more than slaves.

 

I agree. I was a little bit frustrated by that scene, because it's obvious to me that the people responsible for Omar's murder are in the Gilead oligarchy. It's true that, in real life, people will often pressure you to believe you're responsible for their negative actions (like, "I wouldn't have hit you if you didn't make me angry!") and that people buy into that, but I would have liked it if June wasn't so easily swayed.

[Umbelina]

There is a pretty revealing preview in the next episode thread for those who are interested.

I honestly don't think they have invented stuff that wasn't in the book...yet.  The flashbacks were in the book, and yes, we got to SEE the colonies, and we got up close and personal with an Econofamily, but both of those things were in the book, as was the idea of escaping to Canada, and some of the conditions in Canada were also in the epilogue section of the book.

Honestly the only thing I can think of that strayed from the book on the show was last season, the whole "Mexico wants handmaids" nonsense, which did at least serve as a way to introduce Mayday and the fact that the rest of the world is boycotting Gilead (both in the book.)  The other huge change started last season as well, with

Spoiler

racism

not being part of Gilead.

I think that in four episodes we've had quite a bit happen, aside from "just more torture for June and handmaids." 

• Econofamilies
• Colonies, at least the nuclear waste colonies
• Canadian refugees lives
• More Commanders interaction
• Many more details of life while a pregnant handmaid
• Mayday and escaping fleshed out

All of that was in the book, but since it was first person, it was word of mouth or only June observations.  Again though, they left first person June behind last season anyway. 

There is much more book stuff they can explore, and I hope they do, which is what is keeping me riveted to the show, in spite of it being difficult to watch.  I have noticed that with Handmaid's Tale, I generally only watch the episode one time.  I pay close attention when I do, but once is enough. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Umbelina

[SWLinPHX]

But June insisted Omar take her with him when she stood in front of the truck, and then was reckless alone in his home.  She got him killed.  June is a selfish, selfish girl!

She realizes now, as Offred, that sometimes you have to go along to get along.  She'll create a new normal for herself once she's used to it.  It's only been hard because she keeps resisting.

Edited May 15, 2018 by SWLinPHX

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

But June insisted Omar take her with him when she stood in front of the truck, and then was reckless alone in his home.  She got him killed.  June is a selfish, selfish girl!

She realizes now, as Offred, that sometimes you have to go along to get along.  She'll create a new normal for herself once she's used to it.  It's only been hard because she keeps resisting.

We don't know that June's actions got Omar killed, we only know that they've linked her to Omar. We know that they know that Omar helped her, but we don't know the extent of their knowledge. They may not know that she was ever in his apartment. When the safehouse was compromised, there's a very good chance that they figured out Omar's link to it. Whether or not June went home with Omar may not have made a difference. I actually don't think it did. I think that if they'd discovered that June was there at his place, they would've gone there and retrieved her instead of waiting for her to reach the airport. 

2 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

But June insisted Omar take her with him when she stood in front of the truck, and then was reckless alone in his home.  She got him killed.  June is a selfish, selfish girl!

She realizes now, as Offred, that sometimes you have to go along to get along.  She'll create a new normal for herself once she's used to it.  It's only been hard because she keeps resisting.

Once she's used to the emotional abuse, loss of freedom, inability to see her child (soon to be children), and upcoming execution? Yeah, I wouldn't want to get used to that at all. 

[greekmom]

12 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Aunt Lydia told her what happened to Omar's wife.  She's now in training to be a Handmaid, their son was given to a Commander's family.  The real truth is, that probably would have happened anyway, even if he wasn't caught as part of Mayday.  He was Muslim, someone may have suspected, a house search, done.  Or a zillion other ways, Gilead can do what it pleases, and the Econfamilies are at their mercy just like everyone else.

I think the wives were returning from church to their homes.  The husbands are workers and soldiers stationed and fighting in the many wars going on in the colonies.

I was wondering about Luke's wife. Not Omar's. Where is she now in this "brave new world"??? 

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

I was wondering about Luke's wife. Not Omar's. Where is she now in this "brave new world"??? 

I have a feeling that she's going to pop back up and either make things easier for June (causing June to feel massive guilt) or a lot harder for her. I can see her either working for the resistance or being an aunt. Either way, I don't think we've seen the last of her. 

[GraceK]

Since her husband left her for another woman, and it’s possible she’s infertile, and she seemed super resentful when we saw her last.....it would not surprise me at all if we see Annie pop up as an Aunt. Given her last interaction she had with June I don’t see her as a reasonable person or someone who would seek to make things easier for her at all. Her mentions of God, her willingness to place the blame on June, and her violent reaction does not lead to me to believe she would valiantly fight for the resistance or come to June’s rescue. That seems ridiculous. It’s far more likely she would be either a Martha or an Aunt. Most likely an Aunt to be honest. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by GraceK

[KariLois]

Aunt Lydia is the Benjamin Linus of “The HandmaidKs Tale.”

[Umbelina]

8 hours ago, greekmom said:

I was wondering about Luke's wife. Not Omar's. Where is she now in this "brave new world"??? 

Oops, sorry.  She's divorced, and the fact that it wasn't her choice probably won't matter at all in Gilead.  Handmaid, Aunt, or Colonies would be my guess. 

6 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I have a feeling that she's going to pop back up and either make things easier for June (causing June to feel massive guilt) or a lot harder for her. I can see her either working for the resistance or being an aunt. Either way, I don't think we've seen the last of her. 

I wouldn't mind seeing her again, but I'm not as sure as you that we will.  She was fantastic in her scenes.  The one I really want to see is Omar's wife, mostly because, as they say, "pride goeth before a fall" and she's was so dismissive of June as a handmaid.  That was such a good scene as well, women blaming women, or judging them.

[chocolatine]

24 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

She's divorced, and the fact that it wasn't her choice probably won't matter at all in Gilead.

It could matter. My understanding of the ultra-Christian interpretation of marriage is that marriage is until death do us part, but if there's a divorce and one fo the parties remarries, then that party is the "adulterer". It's like the divorce doesn't break up the marriage, but remarriage does. If Annie didn't remarry before Gilead came into power, she may still have been in good standing, provided she hasn't committed any other transgressions.

[GraceK]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

The one I really want to see is Omar's wife, mostly because, as they say, "pride goeth before a fall" and she's was so dismissive of June as a handmaid.  That was such a good scene as well, women blaming women, or judging them.

I think this is a little mean spirited. The fact that her husband was a secret Muslim clearly shows that she’s not so close minded. She kept his secret and loved him didn’t she? She also seemed to be aware on some level that her husband was involved in the resistance, and as angry and “dismissive “ as she was about June she didn’t immediately turn her in did she to save herself? No she didn’t . I think it’s unfair to judge this woman on the one impression we saw of her merely because she was rightfully scared and angry that her husband brought a timebomb into her home without her consent. She was terrified. And now her husband is dead, her child is gone, and she’s condemned to be raped for however long she’s fruitful. Are you saying this what she deserves for her “pride and judgement?”?  I’m not saying her words to June were nice or correct, but I could take a step back and see it  them coming from a woman who was scared shitless. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by GraceK

[Joana]

That scene didn't strike me as the woman looking down on June as a handmaid, more like her standing face to face with the embodiment of her worst fear.