S06.E19: The Dragon

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

I've actually seen a few people in Comments section of the review of this Episode on Tvline.com say this episode was fantastic!!?? What the fuck? What are they watching? Saying BS like Dragon is so much more terrifying now LOL. Someone actually said it was better than Arrow has been lately SMH

I think some people are really genuinely fans of Diaz/Kirk, which, you know, happens and I don't fully understand it myself, but I'm surprised at the amount of people who think this episode was appealing. I wasn't against a villains episode; I was just against a Diaz centric episode, as he's, by far, the least compelling villain. I would have loved a Prometheus centric episode or...really, any other villain centric episode. Hell, I'd even go for a Ra's one because at least he had the appeal of the League and Nyssa. Ok, more Nyssa than the League.

But, from what I've seen, at least there's still plenty of people who thought this episode was crap. 

This season's really piss poor at this point. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 hours ago, mtlchick said:

Dear Kirk Acevedo.  I can only use the "But I LOVED you in Band of Brothers!" card so many times until  it becomes useless.

 

Tonight, that card expired.  MY GOD, what the hell did we sit through?!   They killed off Michael Emerson to make Diaz the Big Bad why again?!

I only ever knew him for his stint on the very short lived Law & Order: Trial By Jury. I've never liked him; even as a good guy on Person of Interest. He was the number. I don't know what the casting /writers/whoever's BRIGHT (=DUMBASS) idea it was to kill off MichaelFUCKING!Emerson, who is a gazillionmillion times a better actor, and keep this marble mushmouth sonorous (yes I'm going to keep using this word) sounding moron.

10 hours ago, ladylaw99 said:

Avoid this episode at all cost, I repeat do not watch this episode for your own sanity 

Thanks for the warning. It's been a rough week and I've been falling asleep before 10, so I didn't get a chance to watch yet.

10 hours ago, JJ928 said:

I want to thank you all for your sacrifice. I will totally avoid this episode.

Ditto.

10 hours ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

So he was bullied and that made him a killer.   Was this the special episode of the season?  Bullying is the issue they are addressing?  Like the gun episode from last season?  And that is why it sucked so, so bad? 

WTH was the point of this torture?  

But more importantly - Die, Curtis, Die.  Die painful, die slow, just die.  I will never forgive this show for thinking Felicity needed to apologize to this waste of space character.  

Please tell me these writers have new things to do next season.  

Just by the name of the title, I knew it was going to be heavily featured of this boring and not terrifying at all asshole. BUT I DON'T GIVE ANY FIGGIDITY BLUE DILLY FUCKS about his past, why he's a bad guy, what his deal is. It's like when I'm reading a novel, and the author thinks I give any fucks about what is going through the villain's mind. When I'm really invested in the hero/heroine and their story. Bad guy can have layers, but I don't need, nor do I care what made him the villain--like abused childhood/bullying is why he or she is bad, and I should fucking give a rat's ass, when they're nothing but sociopathic, psychotic murderers.

AW HELL NAW!!!! I hope Stutterbark DIES!!!!!!!!!!!! Wild Dong is shipped off to another city never to be seen again, and Pouty also goes that route.

FUCK OFF, CURTIS!!!!!!!!!!! This is the same asshole who was begging and sneaking and wanting to be on Oliver's team; lying to his husband about it.

 

9 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Yep. It just proves they're never gonna apologize. Ever. The writers really do think the newbies are the ones in the right here. I'm just...I'm at a loss.

The writers are smoking some serious CRACK if that's what their mindset is. It's bad enough that the DCEU is fucked up and a colossal failure (except for Wonder Woman), because they weren't smart or creative enough to map out a plan like Marvel did, and now are cutting corners trying to catch up and "beat" them; now THIS show is doing the fucking same? Like there's ANYTHING comparable between the fucking NOOBS, who are bunch of second, third rate, whining, douchetastic, hypocritical "heroes," to the Avengers and their "break up."

[jay741982]

23 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think some people are really genuinely fans of Diaz/Kirk, which, you know, happens and I don't fully understand it myself, but I'm surprised at the amount of people who think this episode was appealing. I wasn't against a villains episode; I was just against a Diaz centric episode, as he's, by far, the least compelling villain. I would have loved a Prometheus centric episode or...really, any other villain centric episode. Hell, I'd even go for a Ra's one because at least he had the appeal of the League and Nyssa. Ok, more Nyssa than the League.

But, from what I've seen, at least there's still plenty of people who thought this episode was crap. 

This season's really piss poor at this point. 

LOL I even said in Epiosde discussion thread that a MM, Slade, DD or Chase centric episode would have been good but not this crap lol. I did see a KA is getting some meat comment. I still think Dragon is fucking boring and worst Big Bad. Also saw a idiotic this proves Dragon is better Than Cayden and Vilagante delusional post. Emerson was by far more compelling 

Edited April 20, 2018 by jay741982

[GHScorpiosRule]

22 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think some people are really genuinely fans of Diaz/Kirk, which, you know, happens and I don't fully understand it myself, but I'm surprised at the amount of people who think this episode was appealing. I wasn't against a villains episode; I was just against a Diaz centric episode, as he's, by far, the least compelling villain. I would have loved a Prometheus centric episode or...really, any other villain centric episode. Hell, I'd even go for a Ra's one because at least he had the appeal of the League and Nyssa. Ok, more Nyssa than the League.

But, from what I've seen, at least there's still plenty of people who thought this episode was crap. 

This season's really piss poor at this point. 

Like I said above, I don't give any fucks about Marble Mushmouth, but at least with Slade, we saw, through flashbacks, WHY he was gunning for Oliver; and though I didn't care for the story, I could see why Ra's was after him as well, and even Chase and to a lesser extent, Cayden. But this guy? GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK. Waa, waaa, I was bullied, so I became one and a drug dealer.

Hell, I was bullied, got the shit beat out of me during elementary school and survived. By this asshole's logic, I should be a gun-toting, drug dealing killer like his own pathetic self.

[Mellowyellow]

I watched the episode in 6 minutes flat. I did not care to watch the odd little man attempt to be angsty.

CURTIS NEEDS TO DIE! SOMEBODY KILL CURTIS!!! 

Felicity call Ray up and tell him your woes, he's just in Aruba! You DO NOT need to try and be friends with Curtis again! 

I LOATHE CURTIS SOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!! SOOOOO SOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!! 

***

I enjoyed the Olicity scene but I am wondering what is going on with the acting choices. The acting itself was fine but the characters seemed off towards the end. I've seen Felicity worry before and I did like that she got to express how worried she was but she seemed very emotional to me. Like I understand why she's worried and how she feels but I'm not sure I've ever seen Felicity that emotional. Maybe it's from almost losing him last week. Maybe it's an anvil for something in the future.

Then Oliver on the other hand was weirdly paternal while looking stressed. I thought he looked stressed, especially at the end when they showed his face during the hug. 

It felt like AU Oliver and Felicity to me! 

I'm left wondering why they included that scene. Going by their arrogance surely they didn't think they needed to bait Olicity fans to watch that gawd awful episode so this must be their clumsy way of leading into something, whatever that is! 

[Hiveminder]

46 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think some people are really genuinely fans of Diaz/Kirk, which, you know, happens and I don't fully understand it myself, but I'm surprised at the amount of people who think this episode was appealing. 

Some people just have poor taste, and there’s nothing you can do about it. 

[way2interested]

8 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Like I understand why she's worried and how she feels but I'm not sure I've ever seen Felicity that emotional.

I kind of saw it similar to how she was in 312 which had similar context of Felicity thinking Oliver was dead, but this time it's kind of more intense since they are actually married. I didn't think it was out there emotional (and I partially chalk it up to the fact that her scenes were very choppy and felt rushed since they needed to get back to that oh so important Diaz plot, so you've got the writers and EBR having to be very blunt and abrupt to show what's going on in about 4 minutes).

12 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm left wondering why they included that scene.

Foreshadowing and contracts, since you can't have an Arrow episode without SA in it (and I guess EBR as well).

[apinknightmare]

20 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm left wondering why they included that scene. Going by their arrogance surely they didn't think they needed to bait Olicity fans to watch that gawd awful episode so this must be their clumsy way of leading into something, whatever that is! 

Yes, I'm pretty sure it's heavy-handed foreshadowing. 

[tv echo]

Worst. Arrow. Episode. Ever.  (If you can even call 619 an Arrow episode.)

Man, this episode was boring! Yes, Boring, my friends - with a capital "B", and that rhymes with "D" and that stands for Dragon.

Kirk Acevedo is fine playing a supporting character. But, like Matt Nable, he lacks the screen charisma and gravitas needed to portray a convincingly scary Big Bad who can hold your attention for an entire hour. Considering who Oliver has gone up against in past seasons, Ricardo Diaz should not be a problem for even a solo Green Arrow to defeat... Usually... However, this is the season of contrived plot taking precedence over character and character consistency. So most likely, Diaz will bring Oliver to his knees.

Black Siren was completely irrelevant in this episode. She mostly followed Diaz around and listened to him talk. You could remove her from the episode and still do the same Dragon story. Also, in a pre-episode interview with TVLine, KC said that Black Siren is "horrified that [Diaz] is brutally murdering people." I didn't really see that in this episode. I just saw a lot of boredom and smirking. I guess, when Diaz was about to set that guy on fire, you could argue that BS saying "Ricardo" was her showing doubt. But why? Setting a guy on fire crosses the line, but killing someone by sonic screaming into their ear doesn't?

Oh - and shut up, Curtis, for taking satisfaction in the fact that Oliver is now out there risking his life solo. And why is Felicity the one apologizing the Curtis? He has never apologized to her for secretly injecting tracking nanites into her pancakes.

The brief but nice Oliver & Felicity scene didn't air until near the very end - almost as if they wanted people to keep watching and waiting for Oliver to make his first appearance until after most of this episode had aired.

Having that dragon symbol show up in the opening credits just makes me dread that Diaz might carry over into next season as the Big Bad. :(

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Coincidence or Intentional?...

From 619 (The Dragon):
Black Siren: "If they're so powerful, then why didn't you come without any backup?"
Diaz: "I'm not. I've got you."

From 403 (Restoration):
Felicity: "Still, I don't like you going out there without backup."
Oliver: "I'm not. I have you."

[tv echo]

Current vote results for this SpoilerTV readers' poll on this episode...
https://www.spoilertv.com/2018/04/poll-what-did-you-think-of-arrow-dragon.html

Quote

POLL : What did you think of Arrow - The Dragon?

Awesome    19%
Great             3%
Good             5%
OK                 6%
Poor              7%
Awful           59%
    
Votes 410

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm surprised at the amount of people who think this episode was appealing

To give you an idea of the the type of people who thought this episode was appealing, the ones I saw on twitter thought it was awesome to see heads getting blown off and people getting set on fire. 

[tv echo]

Another online poll - this time about Diaz (current results)...
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-recap-ricardo-diaz-takes-68445.aspx

Quote

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT DIAZ AS A VILLAIN?
He's boring. Move on please.                    52%
This episode convinced me. He's good.    31%
I've always liked him as a bad guy.            17%
Total Votes: 52

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[Mary0360]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm not sure I've ever seen Felicity that emotional. Maybe it's from almost losing him last week. Maybe it's an anvil for something in the future.

Pregnancy hormones. 

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Mary0360 said:

Pregnancy hormones. 

Ya know I'm trying not to jump on that train but.........

[statsgirl]

As bad as this season has been (and I hope it never gets any worse than this episode) , the good is that Oliver and Felicity are together and stronger each episode.  I was afraid that the show would do what most shows do and after putting them together, would break them up against to keep the draymah going but instead they're still mortal lock.  I'm going to be happy and take what I can get.

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I watched the episode in 6 minutes flat. I did not care to watch the odd little man attempt to be angsty.

CURTIS NEEDS TO DIE! SOMEBODY KILL CURTIS!!! 

Felicity call Ray up and tell him your woes, he's just in Aruba! You DO NOT need to try and be friends with Curtis again! 

I LOATHE CURTIS SOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!! SOOOOO SOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!! 

***

I enjoyed the Olicity scene but I am wondering what is going on with the acting choices. The acting itself was fine but the characters seemed off towards the end. I've seen Felicity worry before and I did like that she got to express how worried she was but she seemed very emotional to me. Like I understand why she's worried and how she feels but I'm not sure I've ever seen Felicity that emotional. Maybe it's from almost losing him last week. Maybe it's an anvil for something in the future.

Then Oliver on the other hand was weirdly paternal while looking stressed. I thought he looked stressed, especially at the end when they showed his face during the hug.

I understood Felicity.  Up to now, even if she's had to be in the base looking on, she's still had Oliver's back through the comms.  There was away she could be doing something to help, even if it was just tracking him or running searches. Now he's completely shut her out and she's helpless and frantic and worried about him.

I didn't understand Oliver at all.  It was like he was back with McKenna or someone else, saying "don't worry your pretty little head about me". Not "you're my partner" Felicity at all.

I liked Curtis long after most of you had given up on him but now I agree, Curtis must die.

And Felicity does need to call up Ray and talk to him.  That's the optimistic, chipper person she needs, not that shallow, two-faced, selfish Curtis.

[UNOSEZ]

This specific episode wasn't great... It was decent... But I do live the overall idea of this  episode... I mean you've got 22 or so episodes a season and a large roster of characters it doesn't hurt to have some more insight into what other folks are doing... Even if it doesn't totally feed into the specific story line of the season or arc.. Getting a life in the day of Diaz wasn't so bad... I mean they coulda gone deeper into the psyche...  I hope the CW shows that have larger seasons do that more next year...  I like Ricardo Diaz well enuff I see lots complain about him in relation to cayden James.. But I wasn't really all that impressed with James... Another super genius with all the answers who's condescending and a psycho cuz his kid got killed but in the end does absolutely nothing... 

[Guest]

Like I said last night, I didn't hate the Olicity scene as much as some here. Saying that, I do think it was off. I can't believe Oliver would ever be so casual about Felicity's fears for his safety (or not even call her after being in an explosion - he'd know she'd be worried) and I don't believe he'd ever promise to always come home. After all these years, he knows he can't promise that. He can say things like that to a child because that's what you do as a parent but to Felicity? Nah. The fact that he did just didn't really make much sense so that's why I viewed the whole scene as foreshadowing

Spoiler

to the season finale. They'll also probably contrast it to 622 when Felicity puts herself in danger and he'll get a taste of his own medicine.

I don't really understand why the scene was necessary though. I think we've already foreshadowed enough with Oliver saying William has Felicity and Felicity saying she's not going anywhere. There's been enough hints. Personally I think the whole B plot of the episode should've just been removed and let the episode sink on its own. But obviously the writers are aware, on some level, that Oliver and Felicity can't be completely absent so we ended up with this crap.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Guest

[GHScorpiosRule]

I suppose it would have been too much for Amell to point out to whoever wrote that dreck, that Oliver would never dismiss Felicity like that? Or maybe he did, and the writer dismissed his concern? He's only been playing this role since day one. What does he know?

[lemotomato]

If anything good came from last night's episode, it was giving us this parallel: (from http://oliverfelicitygifs.tumblr.com/post/173114382129)

 

 

 

[Mellowyellow]

We so need a Felicity flashback ep! EBR hasn't aged one bit and they don't even try to make her look young!

 She's the only one who can get away with playing her younger self. 

[Sunshine]

@Angel12d The B plot is also set-up for 6.22.

[tv echo]

I have no words to express how much I hated this...

[BkWurm1]

I know I felt insulted on SA's behalf when the Arrow logo was replaced with some rando's far more detailed symbol.  Hell no.  

[statsgirl]

I'm not surprised Stephen Amell is so down on this season. Who wants to be the standard bearer foe that mess? Taking the Arrow logo off and putting on the Dragon is pure insult.

Can someone explain to me like I'm Diaz why, since she's smarter than him and far more powerful than he is, Black Siren is taking orders from 3-D?

(I asked Liz Kim that question over Twitter last night but strangely she didn't answer.)

Edited April 20, 2018 by statsgirl

[arjumand]

What the fuck did I just watch, and why?

I mean, at first, I amused myself with yelling "NO ONE CARES, CURTIS! NOT A FUCK WAS GIVEN THAT DAY, CURTIS!" every time he mentioned Rene.

Then it slowly dawned on me (in all fairness, I was playing Candy Crush Soda at the time, and I'm having a really bad year, healthwise) that this was going to be a . . . shudder . . . Diaz-centric episode. Then I fast forwarded through most of it.

And at the end, I'm rewarded by having Oliver, aka the fricking Green fricking Arrow, appear for a few seconds, having been replaced by a pod person. As I'm really a nice person at heart, I'm not going to insert the Donald Sutherland point and scream from the 1978 Body Snatchers movie. But I really, really want to.

I mean, seriously, who was that guy? The only good thing about Oliver going back to his Season 1 persona was going to be his intensity, bad-ass fighting and imagining all the bed-breaking sex he and Felicity would be having . . . I mean, what? Who said that?

Oh, Arrow. What the fuck has happened to this show?

[Trisha]

7 hours ago, jay741982 said:

I've actually seen a few people in Comments section of the review of this Episode on Tvline.com say this episode was fantastic!!?? What the fuck? What are they watching? Saying BS like Dragon is so much more terrifying now LOL. Someone actually said it was better than Arrow has been lately SMH

I don't get it. The reviews I've seen so far aren't even bad. AV Club (probably the best -- I don't always agree with them but they tend to be the most professional/thoughtful) gave this episode a B. They gave last week's a C+. 

It's like everyone is watching a different show.

[tv echo]

Additional comment...

I've read a few media reviews now where it's said that Black Siren's showing hesitance or disgust (or whatever that facial expression was supposed to be) at Diaz setting that guy on fire showed that she wasn't as bad as Diaz and that her reaction was a sign that she's headed for redemption.

Yes, it was petty and cruel and dark for Diaz to track down his childhood bully, Jesse, and kill him in one of the most painful ways possible. However, this guy did hurt Diaz in the past (tbc, I'm not saying it was right or warranted because Jesse had clearly changed for the better).

Yet during this episode - and indeed throughout the past two seasons, we've seen Black Siren kill, in various painful ways, multiple people who never hurt her (or anyone in many cases) - complete strangers who were either obstacles in the way or just fun killings for her.

And Black Siren has shown personal pleasure in killing and killed unnecessarily, while Diaz kills as a means of getting what he wants or for revenge.

Also,  both Diaz and Black Siren killed men who had two children (adult Jesse left behind two kids, the building security guard that Black Siren killed in 6x04 left behind "two little girls").

So which is worse - killing someone who hurt you in the past or killing someone who's never hurt you? And who is worse - Diaz or Black Siren? 

Edited April 20, 2018 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

I feel like the writers have spent 6B gaslighting us, so I’ve given up trying to figure out what the show is trying to show.

[tv echo]

I love these snarky but on point fan comments...

[tv echo]

Those of you who hated this episode may like reading the TV Overmind review that I just posted in the Starling City Times thread.

[mrspidey]

Asshole thugs doing thug things. And i am supposed to give a shit, why, exactly?

[lion10]

The whole newbie team:  Oliver put Rene in the hospital

What Oliver should say:  He ? tried ?to hit me? with an axe?.

What Felicity should say:  He ? fucking ? shot me?.

[mxc90]

This episode hasn't aired live in the NY market yet due to the Yankee game and will air at 9:00 on Sunday. Today, I just watched this on demand and should have read last night's comments to be warned to not watch! Foolish me.

The Black Siren hair changes kept throwing me off.

If the Quadrant was such a big empire, why haven't we heard about them in prior seasons? 

Black Siren fetches too. Why is she giving Diaz grief?

Edited April 20, 2018 by mxc90

[Cthulhudrew]

On tonight's Arrow: 

The episode absolutely none of you have been waiting for! The story that we probably should have told earlier in the season, preferably in parallel with the stories of our main characters, because that's who you all really care about!

Marvel at the sorts of antics Diaz has likely been up to off-screen for... well, a really long time!

Weep at the story of his tragic upbringing! (From a villain's point of view, anyway.)

Laugh that Black Siren has apparently been studying psychoanalysis alongside the law books that Captain Lance left her, and can provide the sort of therapy Diaz really longs for!

Wonder that the writers thought their efforts to try and beef up the villain of the season and give him some semblance of a motivation was worth sidelining the rest of the cast and characters for an entire episode!

 

(Seriously, though. Legends got away with doing a villain-centric episode last season because they had a cast of villains who were pretty charismatic and actually had character. Trying it with Diaz and BS was just an exercise in futility.)

Edited April 21, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[Cthulhudrew]

Another thing that bugged me this episode (aside from the entire episode): 

Ollie smirking at a frantically worried Felicity. Yeah, the promise bit was nice, but how about you actually show a little compassion when she's bawling her eyes out with concern, dude?

[Primal Slayer]

I really wish that Oliver would've walked in at the end with some bruises and cuts on him. They are obviously going to keep the team dynamic around for another season so when will they learn that they have to show that GA can get things done but it isn't easy, that he's going out on a suicide mission every day. But now they are just showing that he literally doesn't need anyone. and everything will still be ok. 

And once again...it's just sad that this season has been a mess because they are 5 steps behind. The puzzle can be completed but they keep putting the pieces in the wrong place. That is and will be the most agonizing part of this season and show in general.

[Primal Slayer]

If they had to have Diaz get revenge on his childhood bully, at least make the bully grow up to be someone of power. Have be big CEO or big time drug lord in his own right. Having Diaz take this guy who grew up to be a normal joe who hasnt seen the softer side of sears just made it all the more weaker.

[Frozendiva]

A dark and unpleasant episode. Far too much gratuitous violence and unnecessary gore - setting the guy on fire. Putting a bomb on someone else. Tasteless.

This is probably my last season for watching the show. Haven't really liked any of it.

[bijoux]

So, both Dig and Oliver have hit the pod person stage. I guess Felicity is the last woman standing? Maybe next week she decides all this computer business is boring and focuses on her true passions, runcible spoons and slow cookers. 

Having read the comments and watched the Olicity scene and the preview with Felicity and Curtis, my glass-half-full take away is that Curtis had no idea about Dig quitting. So that crap about approaching NTA differently was just ammo he used against Oliver and not something he actually meant. Even PodDiggle doesn't want to play in the kiddie side of the pool. Thumbs up. 

12 hours ago, tv echo said:

I have no words to express how much I hated this...

This is hilarious. It's extra and lame just like Diaz. 

[tennisgurl]

That episode was really “dragon” on, right guy? Huh? Huh? Hey, if the writers aren’t trying, why should I? 

[JamieLynn832002]

Rewatching the Olicity scene, I agree that Oliver's behavior was off but I wonder if it was intentional. From the moment she's known his identity, the danger has been something she's rolled with so I can understand why Oliver might have no idea how to fix this if he's determined (for some asinine, possibly drug-addled reason) that he has to do this without her. That said, a 'hey, honey, I didn't get blown up' phone call/text would have been a good idea.

[KirkB]

How is it possible an episode that focuses on your main villain and (I presume) is meant to show why he is the biggest of the big bads does nothing but bore me to tears and make me even less impressed with Dragon that I already was? And since I didn't particularly care about him at all that's saying something. Of course a guy who was bullied becomes a bully himself, but everything he's been doing to this point is just to get a seat at the big boys table and to finally kill the bully that's been haunting him all this time? And more importantly, why do the Arrow writers think I'd want to see this?

Oh look. Siren is apparently getting a conscience now. Killing people's not as much fun as it used to be, huh? That must suck.

Oh no! Oliver got blown up! The Green Arrow is dead! Seriously, show?

I'm going to see this season through but that's all I can promise.

[tennisgurl]

As much as I've bitched about Dick Dragon and his vacuum of boredom, I realized that, previously, I just didnt give enough time and eye rolls to the never ending misery that are the Newbies. Two of them weren't even around, but one was far too much, even for a few scenes. Curtis and his smug face, letting Felicity apologize for her part in the rift, while he just stands their smugly like he knew she would come groveling back to his benevolence when she realized what garbage she is. It allowed me to come to terms with a fact that I've been dancing around for awhile: I hate the Newbies I hate, more than any characters currently on television. On any show currently airing. Give me your heinous comedy relief and your boring love triangles and your useless dickheads and your Mary Sues, because any of them would be preferable to those three hypocritical, smug, self centered, pathetic, heinous pieces of shit, that we are for some reason supposed to like. 

Hell, that includes villains as well. I would rather spend time on any number of convoluted conspiracies, let me enjoy scenes featuring genocidal nutballs, dark wizards, and evil scientists. I will happily sit down and have tea with murder happy lunatics, twisted serial killers, sociopathic crime lords, ninja cults, dictators, garden variety assholes, world conquering super villains, undead monsters from beyond the grave, and any number of hellspawn and monsters from beyond our reality bent on destruction of all that is good, over having to spend another fucking minute with those three motherfuckers on my screen. THAT IS THE LEVEL OF MY HATE!

[Lantern7]

Simulated conversation between myself and the local CW station:

Me: You guys are preempting Arrow for the Yankees again?

CW11: Yeah. And we’ll run the episode on Sunday night. There will be a Mets game on Saturday. Seriously, you don’t invest in this “Arrowverse” series like the others. Why do you care?

Me: It’s the principle!

CW11: Well, the episode centers on Diaz.

Me: Wow. You just did me a solid.

CW11: Right?!?

I don’t care about “Dragon.” Kinda wish Adrian was back. Or Slade. Or Damien. Or Malcolm . . . and I feel everyone would loathe that character if he wasn’t played by John Barrowman. For this whole season, the endgame for Diaz was to have “a seat at the table” with a larger crime family? And the cherry on top was finding his orphanage antagonist and setting him ablaze?? Seriously, how old are the writers? Such poor motivation, and Diaz’s Vin Diesel-like mumblegrowl makes me not take things more seriously. I know Kirk Acevedo is good, but he should’ve passed on this gig.

Another question: how far would Diaz have gotten in a past season? Team Arrow is fractured as hell, and I see that as the only reason he still has the edge. At this point, Laurel-2 killing him (and Anatoly) might be for the best, and I think all Laurels are toxic. Fuck it, bring in an evil team of counterparts from Earth-2, give them scars and eyepatches, and it might work better than what we have now.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Lantern7

[KirkB]

I pretty much hate every incarnation of Laurel and at this point I would be all for her screaming Diaz's head off and taking over as the big bad. Diaz is boring. Laurel is...well not fun but at least she isn't boring.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I think it's very telling that this episode only has two pages of comments. It was THAT GOOD! (insert sarcasm)

[Chyromaniac]

In one of the best Star Trek episodes ever, David Warner plays a Cardassian who captures and tortures Captain Picard. At one point, he tells a story about having to fight off an older boy for food. It’s supposed to make him seem impressive- instead, a beaten, disheveled Picard tells him that he’ll always be a small, starving child at heart, and that he pities him.

 

Diaz, Picard would have dragged you so hard this week...

[Mellowyellow]

On 4/22/2018 at 10:52 AM, JamieLynn832002 said:

Rewatching the Olicity scene, I agree that Oliver's behavior was off but I wonder if it was intentional. From the moment she's known his identity, the danger has been something she's rolled with so I can understand why Oliver might have no idea how to fix this if he's determined (for some asinine, possibly drug-addled reason) that he has to do this without her. That said, a 'hey, honey, I didn't get blown up' phone call/text would have been a good idea.

I haven't been in this thread since the ep was so pointless but your comment makes a lot of sense to me. They've been through some bad sh@t! Maybe he figures that after sexing her up and sending her back home so he could stay and become Ra's Al Ghul, this whole go be GA all alone thing is not that bad since he's not brainwashed and will be home to cook her dinner.

[millennium]

The good:  I couldn't take my eyes off Katie Cassidy.

The bad:  Everything else.   One of the worst episodes I've seen in all six seasons.   The actor playing Diaz is beyond mediocre ("I had raw, cracked skin ... for weeks!"), and the character he plays is a composite of cliches.  I can't believe the showrunners surrendered an entire episode to this guy.

It could only have been worse if they allowed Curtis to worm his way back into Felicity's good graces ... oh, wait. 

Last week, when Oliver announced he was going back to basics, I cheered because I haven't really enjoyed this series since Season Two.  But I guess it was a red herring and you really can't go home again because I tuned in this week expecting Arrow 1.0 and what I got was The Forgettable Actors Strike Back. 

I really dislike Curtis.

On 4/24/2018 at 10:30 PM, Chyromaniac said:

In one of the best Star Trek episodes ever, David Warner plays a Cardassian who captures and tortures Captain Picard. At one point, he tells a story about having to fight off an older boy for food. It’s supposed to make him seem impressive- instead, a beaten, disheveled Picard tells him that he’ll always be a small, starving child at heart, and that he pities him.

 

Diaz, Picard would have dragged you so hard this week...

 

Nods.   Four lights.

Edited April 26, 2018 by millennium