S04.E13: A Dark Knight: A Beautiful Darkness

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Ivy tracks a secret project on which Wayne Enterprises is working and begins to target anyone that can give her information. Meanwhile, Jerome becomes obsessed with Penguin in Arkham. Gordon begins to second guess his deal with Sofia and an unsettling dream sequence shakes up Bruce.

Promo:

[HoodlumSheep]

Lots of good stuff this episode

• Bruce's fever dream gave us so much:
• RA'S!!!! I was not expecting to see him
• MUSTACHE. THE MUSTACHE
• butler harvey petting a rooster
• Special agent alfred
• BATMAN BATCAVE BATS

-More Lucius screentime; he has an adorable smile

-Ivy the evil lorax. She speaks for the trees.

-Queen Sofia has finally returned to grace our screens once again

-even ozzy is a little scared of jerome. 

-the riddler revealing himself to ozzy

-The whole ozzy vs jerome bit had me dying of laughter. We went from ozzy comically failing to electrocute him, "that is a spoon"... "it is also a fork!!!!!", then a mime-off resulting in ozzy kneeing jerome in the face and calling him a gingersnap. Brilliant. 

-looks like we're getting an ivy arc for a while, too. Her plant pollen/seed stuff...gotham sure has taken a liking of having it's city under the constant threat of bad airborne substances. Wonder if it's gonna be a repeat of last season, but instead of turning bad you die/turn into a plant

Edited March 9, 2018 by HoodlumSheep

[Danielg342]

That's all I can say, really.

Some parts were good...some where bad. It was all kinds of deliciously crazy.

...but I'm kind of not sure it went anywhere.

Bruce's dream looked very nice, especially Cleopatra Lee and Jim with a moustache.

Oh, and British Bullock...hey, is that a pun?

(Bullock...bullocks...never mind...

...oh crap...)

Oh, and Jerome and Oswald...they did have some fun...and both seem to enjoy pain very much.

...but...

Both stories just...meandered. I mean, I don't expect a resolution but I do expect the stories to lead to the next "big" plot point and I'm not sure we got that.

Oh...and Ivy...

Um, Peyton List is not threatening at all. I was so bored of her on screen...List is just not villain material, and it's sucking the life out of this story.

One who is villain material?

Sofia. Sofia Falcone. Played by Crystal Reed, who ran circles around List tonight.

...and everyone else. Like she always does.

Sofia is more threatening in five seconds than List ever was, and Sofia is so charming that you can't help but fall for her each time, even when you don't want to.

Lee, take heed.

That might be the only thing I liked about this episode. Here's hoping the rest of the season picks up from here.

[RandomWatcher]

It would be bad if Sofia, Lee and Barbara teamed up. They would be the Trio of Evil Exes

[Sakura12]

I really liked this episode. 

When I saw the pic of the dream party I thought oh a costume party then thought about it. This is Gotham it's probably just a regular party. The Gotham City Sirens was short lived. I like that Ivy has her powers and her obsession with plants but I don't think Peyton List is selling it that well. 

When Jim went to talk to Barbara and Sophia was there, all they needed was Lee and it would all of Jim's exes turned bad. Then Sophia went to go see Lee. 

The Penguin and Joker scenes were great. It seems Oswald is a little afraid of him. It's interesting that the Riddler seems to still like Oswald or he just likes him better than Ed's new friends. 

[small potatoes]

57 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Um, Peyton List is not threatening at all. I was so bored of her on screen...List is just not villain material, and it's sucking the life out of this story.

I agree about Peyton List, and it's too bad because I really like the story line. 

 

[madhacker]

the only thing that would've made the end of Bruce's little nightmare perfect would be that they cast Kevin Conroy as Bruce's inner Batman. I would've lost it if we heard him voiceover his classic line "I am vengeance, I am the night, I AM......." then Bruce wakes up.

[WritinMan]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

Sofia. Sofia Falcone. Played by Crystal Reed, who ran circles around List tonight.

...and everyone else. Like she always does.

Still don't see it. Sofia is a boring villain. Like a spoiled girl trying to act tough. And the actress is just OK. Honestly, I roll my eyes whenever we see Sofia on the screen. And I'm glad when we move to another scene.

[thuganomics85]

Bruce's visions where pretty trippy.  I did like how it included almost all of the characters in them.  Even previewing Gordons' stache, although I wonder if there is any kind of significance over him being with Barbara at the party.  Frankly, at this rate, I'd think Barbs could do better.

Of course, the big moment was Bruce getting glimpses of "his true self", and the seeds of him eventually becoming Batman being planted.  I agree that the only thing that would have made it perfect would have been if they had gotten Kevin Conroy to due the voice.  But, hey, as long as it wasn't Batffleck, it's all good!

Oswald and Jerome are becoming a duo I want more of.  Even if Oswald would totally disagree with me on that front.

Looks like Ivy is going to be the big baddie this go around.  Her storyline is intriguing, but I'm not completely sold of Peyton List yet.

Gordon calls Sofia's bluff about incriminating herself to take him down, so it seems like her big plan now is to use Lee (and maybe Barbara) against him.  Oh, Gordon.  You really do have a type!

I forgot how much I enjoy the Jim/Selina pair until tonight.  There reactions towards all the hypnotized cops (including poor Harper) were priceless! 

[Lantern7]

A major scene involves two of the bigger characters engaged in a mime-off. Only Gotham. And maybe Legends of Tomorrow. Second place goes to Bruce's batshit dream, followed by Ivy coming to GCPD and making everybody think she was awesome. And it turned out the way to reserve that was punching the afflicted in the face.

Damn, Ivy's trying too hard. I'd prefer Jerome over her, and I'm soooooooo tired about the "Is He Or Isn't He The Joker?!?" talk. Then again, Ivy is firmly in batshit territory: she was a kid, she was artificially aged, she took mysterious potions, and now she can seduce and murder people at will. I'm okay with it on some level, but she shouldn't be Ultimate Eco-Terrorist so quickly. And she's got a pot device based on Ra's al Ghul's magic water. Also, has there been an Ivy/Ra's teamup in any comic? It seems so natural.

Give Ivy credit for one thing: breaking Bruce out of his douchedom. Granted, it was out of punishing him for shit that he had little clue about. Plus side: wacky drug trip where the cast slips into the episode in wacky costumes. Bullock is Alfred, Alfred is Special Forces, Gordon has a mustache, and Batman uses time-travel to scare Bruce straight. Didn't think "Gordon with mustache" was funny until afterward. Reminds me of a comic speculating on the series finale of Gotham: Gordon on a rooftop, opening a box containing glasses and a mustache.

Once again, Selina might be the sanest character. Well, if you overlook she hangs out with two killers, and one of them is Barbara Keane, who probably belongs in Arkham more than Oswald at this point. But bringing her into a robbery and killing somebody while she's poking around? Apparently, that's where she draws the line.

Seriously . . . mime-off. And where did Jerome and his mob find time to make a clown suit? I feel bad for Oswald . . . all he wants to do is pout and brood, and the big Nutter Butter keeps annoying him. Oh, and Ed stops by to poke the Penguin.

[Enigma X]

The whole Ivy thing makes  no sense. She also grew in "maturity"? I mean she was using words that Ivy would never know.

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, small potatoes said:

I agree about Peyton List, and it's too bad because I really like the story line. 

Me too. It looks like we could have some fun with Ivy and her "War for Plants"...but Peyton List needs to up her game considerably.

[Kostgard]

I enjoyed everything that happened in this episode, though I don’t know if I like how it was cut all together. I don’t know - I think I wanted to see Bruce’s dream all in one segment. I did like badass SAS Alfred.

At this point, I think I like the idea of this new Ivy more than what she’s actually bringing. PL needs to turn it up a bit. Honey, it’s Gotham - turn it up to 11 and break off the knob (but stop before you get to Uma Thurman).

Jim was far less annoying this episode, except for his interactions with Sofia. He goes back and forth or whether or not they have a deal like the writers can’t remember or decide what’s going on there. But I think he was better because he was with Bruce a bit. Jim is always better with Bruce.

I wasn’t surprised that Jerome’s crew found the time to sew a clown suit (it is prison, all  they got is time), but where the hell did they get squeaky clown shoes? Someone is getting some weird-ass care packages from home.

I was surprised that no one noticed that the person they pulled out of bed had about four inches and at least 40 pounds on Oswald. And yes - a mime-off. Because of course. But I think I actually remember an interview from a few years ago where RLT said he was in some sort of mime troupe in college, so that was probably the genesis of that idea. Oswald did well in the mime-off,  but he is terrible at tipping his hand. “I’m not joining your plan because my BFF is getting me out of here!” Oh, Oswald. Don’t give ANY info to a dangerous guy like Jerome. You never learn!

Nice callback to the origami penguin Ed made last season when Oswald came to see him in Arkham. I just wonder what the Riddler wants in return for busting Oswald out. But it could be he just wants Oswald to set him free - his note was about how he’s imprisoned, and last season he seemed to place huge importance on Oswald calling him “The Riddler.”  Like he wasn’t truly him until Oswald acknowledged it. Maybe he believes Oswald is the key to the Riddler taking over, so he’s willing to spring him in order to gain control. Oswald’s letter is probably either “You’re the Riddler” or “Come back and I will give you want you want” and an annoyed Ed Nygma will show up (not realizing he left the note), but the Riddler will take over if Oswald calls him by that name.

I had to laugh at the envelope Oswald mails - even his handwriting is loud and over the top.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Kostgard

[DR14]

-Well, there's the Bat symbolism.

-Oswald/Ed

-Selina is much, much better when she's not a Sirens tagalong, liked the show revisiting her complicated relationship with Jim, even if it's only for one episode.

-Bratbruce was fun, but glad it's moved on.

-Jerome didn't stand out as much as I thought he would.

[Biggie B]

Why did Lucious lie to Jim about the Wayne Enterprises guy who was murdered by Ivy at his family dinner? Jim asked Lucious what the victim was working on at Wayne, and Lucious said, "Oh nothing, just xyz." And Lucious knew all about Project M. I hope Lucious isn't in on something nefarious.

I loved Harvey with the chicken. So random.

Alfred again looking smokin' hot.

I don't like Ivy at all or her story line, but it's unfortunately front and center right now. At least she caused Bruce to hallucinate his way back to reality, so to speak.

I'm also disappointed that Lee is falling in with Sofia. Why? What about Lee's grand plans to improve the Narrows? Is she ditching that in favor of helping Sofia rule the underworld? Is she going to help her in Sofia's quest to destroy Jim? I thought that last week, Lee and Jim sort of reached a detente. Perhaps Lee will just never forgive Jim for killing her (evil) husband. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Biggie B

[Miss Dee]

I will never understand why "Bratman" didn't become a thing during Bruce's douche phase.

[Kostgard]

3 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Why did Lucious lie to Jim about the Wayne Enterprises guy who was murdered by Ivy at his family dinner? Jim asked Lucious what the victim was working on at Wayne, and Lucious said, "Oh nothing, just xyz." And Lucious knew all about Project M. I hope Lucious isn't in on something nefarious.

I loved Harvey with the chicken. So random.

Alfred again looking smokin' hot.

I don't like Ivy at all or her story line, but it's unfortunately front and center right now. At least she caused Bruce to hallucinate his way back to reality, so to speak.

I'm also disappointed that Lee is falling in with Sofia. Why? What about Lee's grand plans to improve the Narrows? Is she ditching that in favor of helping Sofia rule the underworld? Is she going to help her in Sofia's quest to destroy Jim? I thought that last week, Lee and Jim sort of reached a detente. Perhaps Lee will just never forgive Jim for killing her (evil) husband. 

 

If Wayne Enterprises has government contracts and works on secret projects that the government is involved in, then I could see Lucius lying about Project M. In that scenario, he shouldn't talk about it without a warrant or getting clearance from someone on high at WE.

I'm far more confused about Lucius' employment situation. I thought he quit WE to go work for the police department last season (back when the Court of Owls had their claws in WE and he kinda wanted to get away from the BS). But he knows all about a project at WE that only could have started at the end of season three because that's when Bruce saw the Lazarus pit, and he obviously still has top security clearance because he used his thumbprint to open the container that had the Lazarus juice. Does he still work there while working for the GCPD? Or is it a situation where Bruce kinda kept him in the loop in the early part of season four back when Lucius was making him vigilante suits?

As for Lee, I can see why she went to Sofia. She's gonna need money and someone with more influence than she in order to actually make the changes she talks about making in the Narrows. City Hall seems to be corrupt and useless, so why not go to the head of the criminal world? Plus she probably figures she can work the "family" angle since she was married to Mario for five minutes. I'm sure at this point she has no idea what Sofia is actually like (it's not like she gives a crap about her getting rid of Oswald - Oswald was kind of a thorn in Lee's side).

Edited March 9, 2018 by Kostgard

[Kathemy]

12 hours ago, Kostgard said:

At this point, I think I like the idea of this new Ivy more than what she’s actually bringing. PL needs to turn it up a bit. Honey, it’s Gotham - turn it up to 11 and break off the knob (but stop before you get to Uma Thurman).

Jim was far less annoying this episode, except for his interactions with Sofia. He goes back and forth or whether or not they have a deal like the writers can’t remember or decide what’s going on there. But I think he was better because he was with Bruce a bit. Jim is always better with Bruce.

I had to laugh at the envelope Oswald mails - even his handwriting is loud and over the top.

 

Peyton List is horrible in the role. Strike that, she just might be just horrible. I haven't watched her in anything else but from what I hear she's supposed to be a good actress, but on Gotham, she might be the only character more wooden-acted than Jim Gordon. It's like watching paint dry. 

And the most horrible thing of all is that this entire script could have been played by Clare Foley and it would have been a tremendous improvement. Ivy would be far more menacing if she was all these things - if she'd "changed a lot", which was just Selina trying to sell her "awesome villainousness" - and she still looked like a tiny little girl.

10 hours ago, DR14 said:

Jerome didn't stand out as much as I thought he would.

That's because actually, Cameron Monaghan isn't that bloody great an actor. It's the perfect casting and the scripts that have made him a standout, not his phenomenal skills. Sure, he's good, but he's no better than David, Robin, Cory or even Erin. 

4 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I loved Harvey with the chicken. So random.

 

Don't think it's random. It seems a reference to Carmine Falcone, who raised chickens. Show didn't let us forget that either (Sofia referenced it this season.) 

My random addition - boy, did Robin ever jump at the romantic Nygmobblepot angle and totally run away with it in that scene with Edward. "You're still in there." Wow, just wow. All he had to act against was a tiny piece of paper and you just saw him completely overcome with emotion. This is why that ship is so beloved.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Kathemy
+ Thought

[Twilight Man]

12 hours ago, Kostgard said:

I wasn’t surprised that Jerome’s crew found the time to sew a clown suit (it is prison, all  they got is time), but where the hell did they get squeaky clown shoes? Someone is getting some weird-ass care packages from home.

I understand you're a man who knows how to get things.

I'm known to locate certain things from time to time.

[DR14]

1 hour ago, Kathemy said:

Peyton List is horrible in the role. Strike that, she just might be just horrible. I haven't watched her in anything else but from what I hear she's supposed to be a good actress, but on Gotham, she might be the only character more wooden-acted than Jim Gordon. It's like watching paint dry. 

And the most horrible thing of all is that this entire script could have been played by Clare Foley and it would have been a tremendous improvement. Ivy would be far more menacing if she was all these things - if she'd "changed a lot", which was just Selina trying to sell her "awesome villainousness" - and she still looked like a tiny little girl.

That's because actually, Cameron Monaghan isn't that bloody great an actor. It's the perfect casting and the scripts that have made him a standout, not his phenomenal skills. Sure, he's good, but he's no better than David, Robin, Cory or even Erin. 

Don't think it's random. It seems a reference to Carmine Falcone, who raised chickens. Show didn't let us forget that either (Sofia referenced it this season.) 

My random addition - boy, did Robin ever jump at the romantic Nygmobblepot angle and totally run away with it in that scene with Edward. "You're still in there." Wow, just wow. All he had to act against was a tiny piece of paper and you just saw him completely overcome with emotion. This is why that ship is so beloved.

Agree.  To me the Oswald/Ed, Selina/Jim, and Bruce scenes were what stood out to me.  Jerome was just...there.

[Kostgard]

2 hours ago, Kathemy said:

Peyton List is horrible in the role. Strike that, she just might be just horrible. I haven't watched her in anything else but from what I hear she's supposed to be a good actress, but on Gotham, she might be the only character more wooden-acted than Jim Gordon. It's like watching paint dry. 

 

I've only ever seen PL on Mad Men, and she was fine there. Nothing spectacular was required of her, but she played her part well. I wonder if she got the note that this is a new "mature" Ivy, so she's underplaying it. But she needs to look around and see that everyone else is not just playing to the back row, but (to steal/paraphrase a line from Trixie Mattel) playing to the check-cashing place around the corner. She needs to turn it up to fit the tone of the show. I feel like she has it in her to do it, but I don't know if anyone is telling her she needs to. I wish she would hang out with Erin Richards a bit, because what she brings to Barbara is similar to what Peyton needs to bring to Ivy.

 

2 hours ago, Kathemy said:

My random addition - boy, did Robin ever jump at the romantic Nygmobblepot angle and totally run away with it in that scene with Edward. "You're still in there." Wow, just wow. All he had to act against was a tiny piece of paper and you just saw him completely overcome with emotion. This is why that ship is so beloved.

 

I agree that RLT was able to do quite a lot with a scene where it's just him and a scrap of paper. The love angle was definitely in there (I don't think Oswald's feelings for Ed have changed all that much - they are just now mixed with anger and hurt), and I thought he did a great job of showing that Oswald finally got a sliver of hope after having the rug pulled out from under him and having everyone he trusted betray him. And that this sliver of hope came from his friend whom he thought was gone forever but still remains and is willing to help him despite their ugly history gives it that much more weight. That note carries so much hope in a number of areas. Oswald totally slept with that note under his pillow. 

But RLT definitely got an assist from the writing. The note essentially said, "Say my name." Say my name and we can both be free. It's not hard to read romantic/sexual undertones in that. Combine that with the shot from the promo for the next episode where Ed/Riddler is touching Oswald's face, and I can see why 'shippers might be quite happy right now. I'm looking forward to seeing how split personalities continue (and if they will continue) and how Ed reconciles one half of him courting Lee and building the Narrows while the other half is pulling Oswald out of prison. I originally thought Ed was just going to recruit Oswald to help him and Lee in some sort of battle against Sofia since they had a common enemy, and maybe that's where this will ultimately go, but I'm looking forward to seeing how Ed keeps his two lives separate or if they will collide pretty soon here.

2 hours ago, Twilight Man said:

I understand you're a man who knows how to get things.

I'm known to locate certain things from time to time.

I would give anything to see Red's face when someone comes to him asking him to smuggle a pair of giant clown shoes in with the laundry. How many packs of ciggies will that cost? 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Kostgard

[Kathemy]

2 hours ago, Kostgard said:

I've only ever seen PL on Mad Men, and she was fine there. Nothing spectacular was required of her, but she played her part well. I wonder if she got the note that this is a new "mature" Ivy, so she's underplaying it. But she needs to look around and see that everyone else is not just playing to the back row, but (to steal/paraphrase a line from Trixie Mattel) playing to the check-cashing place around the corner.

No, the thing is Peyton is overacting the "being the villain" part of Ivy, and she's utterly failing at it.

She does not f¤¤king have the chops. Christ, and I thought there was nothing that could make me miss Maggie Geha.

[Danielg342]

"Peyton List? More like Peyton Listless."

[superloislane]

I could not stop laughing at Penguin saying 'I will wipe that smile off your face' to Ed. The way Robin Lord Taylor said it was just hilarious. And obviously the mime scene was amazing. I'm worried about how long this Jerome thing will last because I feel like he works best in small doses as a bomb that gets thrown into the plot to screw everything around. And for crying out loud - will they just reveal if he's the joker or not. And if he's not then another character who does all the things Jerome does is just going to feel like a copycat.

BATS! Finally we get bats! I wonder if that dream sequence will take the place of any scene where Bruce is actually attacked by bats. Hopefully this means the end of bratty Bruce and we will get batty Bruce instead. Although I wish that dream sequence was all in one instead of broken up.

What is with these writers and making characters lose their faces?

Harvey with a chicken is somehow in Bruce's subconscious - now that's fascinating! I also love that he dreamed of Oswald in a top hat and long cigarette and Jim with a moustache - he knows exactly how their future selves will style themselves.

I much prefer Selina away from Babs and Tabs - whenever Selina is with that group she looks like the non-threatening kid sister who shouldn't be there. I prefer her with Jim, Bruce and even Ivy because at least we get to see her character with them.

Speaking of people I prefer with certain characters, Jim is always best with Selina or Bruce or Alfred and I liked his more light-hearted turn in this episode.

I did not expect to see Ra's al Ghul and I'm so happy he was there. Hopefully this means that character will be back soon - I thought he was really good on the show and Ra's al Ghul is never fully dead.

LUCIOUS!!!! More Lucious is always a good thing and he was very funny with Ivy. I quite like the idea that he was still working closely with Bruce and Wayne Enterprises on that water because that keeps that trusted relationship going and it needs to.

I thought Ivy was quite threatening although it's a very fast development that she's suddenly homicidal about plants. I like Peyton List but I still wonder why they couldn't have used the previous actress for this.

And...I still don't want the Riddler to come back - can he just stay away and be Ed?

[Miss Dee]

Granted, I'm not the type that's into horror movies or anything, but: Faceless Bruce was one of the creepiest fucking things I've seen in a long time.

[darkestboy]

Nice to see Ivy finally creating some havoc here. I guess she really has fully bloomed here.

Liked her scenes with Bruce, Lucious and Gordon and I'm intrigued that the Lazarus water can advance her abilities as well. I'm guessing Ras will be back very soon too.

Bruce's nightmare sequence was creepy, effective and I loved the bat imagery as well during one sequence.

Gordon and Selina should work together more often.

The Oswald/Jerome subplot was pretty good, especially with the Nygma bit as well.

Leslie and Sofia working together won't end well, 8/10

[Lokiberry]

I've always been mixed on Peyton List: hated her on Tomorrow People and loved her on the Flash. She's ok here, just too restrained, and Gotham doesn't know from restrained. I join the chorus of being baffled about why the need for a recast. This new Ivy isn't doing anything that Maggie Geha wasn't capable of. Unless there was some drama behind the scenes that I don't know about, there was no logical reason to make the change.

My Gosh, I love Cameron Monaghan as Jerome. He's the best live action Joker still on this mortal coil. They should send Joaquin Phoenix over to shadow him and take notes (after that, he can go hang around Mark Hamil). He's bold, unhinged, and always completely unpredictable. That mime off was something else, even for Gotham. I can't wait to see what he's got planned. I hope it brings him into contact with Bruce, because that's the best.

Speaking of Bruce, he towers over Jim! Our Baby Bat has grown up! The dream sequence was a trip, and slightly prophetic. Jim with a 'stache and arm and arm with Barbara (Baby Babs has to come from somewhere), Penguin in his comic book costume and a Proto Batman. I wonder if there was any significance in Lee's Egyptiony outfit? Is she going to get knocked in the head and think she's King Tut, or perhaps Hatshepsut?

And then there's Oswald and Ed. I'm (mostly) over shipping them, and I've enjoyed the evolution of their relationship, but it can't continue as it is, "I'm going to kill you for realsies this time, when I get through gloating, monologuing and/or freezing you into a conversation piece for my nite club" or it will get stale. It's time to move on to another dynamic. I hope Oswald being the key to unleashing the Riddler is the beginning of that.

All in all, a good episode. I loved Sofia in the first half of the season when she was playing EVERYONE, so I'm looking forward to seeing what she has planned now.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Lokiberry

[LeisureTime]

God, I will be glad when Sofia's gone. I just don't like her, and I think it's largely because I don't buy Crystal Reed in that role. Also? I miss pre-faceoff Jerome. He was so much fun! His crazy was joyous, and now it's just sinister, and that's not fun! I feel like Cameron Monahan has gone from creating his own unique Joker to ripping off Heath Ledger's Joker.

Loved Bruce's dream, though. I actually want to go back and watch those parts again just to take it all in.  And Jim is always at his best when he's with Bruce, Selina, Lucius or Alfred, so there was a lot of good there, too.

Ivy's growing on me (and that pun wasn't intended, but now that I see it, HA). I was annoyed at first, because I liked Sprout Ivy, whose actress really sold the connection to Seed Ivy without always seeming like a literal kid in a woman's body. But since they're going for the obvious seed-sprout-bloom progression, she makes a little more sense. And I don't even think the actress is all that bad, I just wish she were a little better.

[Danielg342]

On 09/03/2018 at 10:18 PM, superloislane said:

I did not expect to see Ra's al Ghul and I'm so happy he was there.

"Ra's al-Ghul?"

"Rays al-what? My name is Doctor Greenbaum, and I'm here to do a little trim."

I loved how Alexander Siddig got to poke fun at those who get his name wrong.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Danielg342

[Miss Dee]

3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

"Ra's al-Ghul?"

"Rays al-what? My name is Doctor Greenbaum, and I'm here to do a little trim."

I loved how Alexander Sodding got to poke fun at those who get his name wrong.

I know it was just auto-correct, but the irony in your last statement is marvellous.

[paigow]

23 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

"Peyton List? More like Peyton Listless."

If she is sinking...then Listing....

[Danielg342]

5 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

I know it was just auto-correct, but the irony in your last statement is marvellous.

...

...

...

...oh gosh...

*hangs head in shame*

...

...stupid Auto-Correct.

I think I went too fast clicking "Reply" that I didn't bother to check that last sentence...and "Sodding" is so close to "Siddig".

Alex must be having a ball at my expense now...

[Kathemy]

http://www.douxreviews.com/2018/03/gotham-beautiful-darkness.html

[tennisgurl]

More shows should have fight scenes where the villains have a mime battle to solve a conflict. 

Bruce's vision seemed to be seeing the future as well as seeing just weird stuff, so...does Lee become King Tut? Harvey becomes Harvey Birdman? 

I love this show and its commitment to madness. If this show and Legends of Tomorrow crossed over, the TV would implode from amazing craziness. 

[Miss Dee]

Television could not contain the supernova of charisma that would come from Alfred and Mick Rory meeting and teaming up. Our television sets, phones, computers and pads would short out from the awesomeness. Best to leave things as they are.

[jhlipton]

On 3/8/2018 at 7:02 PM, Sakura12 said:

Jim went to talk to Barbara and Sophia was there,

"Jim, I just saw Selina.  She went that way!"  Never change, Babs!

On 3/8/2018 at 8:27 PM, thuganomics85 said:

I forgot how much I enjoy the Jim/Selina pair until tonight.  There reactions towards all the hypnotized cops (including poor Harper) were priceless! 

"You're not really selling it."
"Oh, and you are?"

On 3/9/2018 at 8:58 AM, icemiser69 said:

Bruce wants Alfred back.  I so hope that Alfred is the bigger man and just comes back.

Alfred was on his way back before Bruce said "It's me... it's Bruce..."

On 3/9/2018 at 5:19 PM, Danielg342 said:

"Peyton List? More like Peyton Listless."

I think they got the wrong Peyton List.  The younger one knows precisely how to turn it up to 11.

On 3/10/2018 at 12:35 PM, Danielg342 said:

"Ra's al-Ghul?"

"Rays al-what? My name is Doctor Greenbaum, and I'm here to do a little trim."

I loved how Alexander Siddig got to poke fun at those who get his name wrong.

I heard, and I think Closed Caption said, "Doctor Greenthumb".

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I heard, and I think Closed Caption said, "Doctor Greenthumb".

...

...

......

You might be right about that.

Alexander Siddig is having a field day with me...

[Kathemy]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I think they got the wrong Peyton List.  The younger one knows precisely how to turn it up to 11.

Best f¤¤¤ing reply ever.

[Snookums]

Well, Comcast FINALLY got this damn thing onto On Demand so I can talk about it!

Boy, this one was really something. Tons of bits that were priceless, just friggin' gold:

The Mime-Off--as I said to Husband, this is the bit in each show that's worth waiting for because you will never, ever see anything like it on any other show on TV. And they were both so good at it, which is what really sold the whole thing.

Barbara's "Oh, hey Jim, I found Selena, she's over there" as he's racing by her to catch S. Why oh why can't Erin Richards get her own spin off? Her massive talents are wasted here. She took a thirty second walk on and made it brilliant.

The entire dream sequence, but especially the party: nothing like "If we got F Scott Fitzgerald to write this thing but made sure he was tripping on Ecstasy the entire time" to really round out the experience. Jim's mustache! Barbara's flapper rig, with Lee as Cleopatra! But we're still missing something; Harvey, hold this chicken! It even advanced the plot and Bruce's character development: he's afraid that he's losing himself in his hedonism, that R'as is taking him over, and the darkness within him finally taking shape.

Lucious "luscious" Fox just taking every last bit of his "oh hey, we fit you in this week" and running with it. His dazed, smiley lines to Ivy were the peaches, especially once she was running off: "Bye! Love you!" and the whole "I'm an expert in Kung Fu" that Jim had to punch him out of.

So, anyway, moving on to Newest Ivy:

As I speculated last week, they're trying to sell each new actress as a new stage in Ivy's "growth," as she said, she's been a seed, a sprout, and now she's blooming. So I get that rationale for the casting changes, especially since they've clearly got this Ivy on a darker, murdery path, and much more sexualized. But.

As another poster put it, where the hell is Ivy magically absorbing education and maturity and vocabulary and scientific methodology? The last version of her worked because it was being properly played as Young Ivy who suddenly looked like a nineteen year old but still thought like a child: who wanted pretty things the way a kid wants them, who thought a thousand dollars was all the money in the world, who found entrancing grown men funny and a way to grab up whatever caught her fancy. This newest version seems to have shed all that with no rationale beyond "I drank a shit ton of magical chemicals and POOF." Granted, that's what's been used for the majority of the villains on this show, but most of them aren't being magically warped past the uncomfortableness of watching an eleven year old (no matter how old she now looks) acting girl start murdering and seducing people with no remorse.

 I saw it most in the scene with Bruce: there's no reason she couldn't have used her perfume on him the way she did with everyone else, so why was she using the lip gloss and planting big smooches on him? It was honestly a little uncomfortable for me to watch--how and why did Ivy decide to do that?

Quote

 

I forgot how much I enjoy the Jim/Selina pair until tonight.  There reactions towards all the hypnotized cops (including poor Harper) were priceless! 

 

This was another bit I really enjoyed: They are a great pair and because Selena's not a love interest for Jim they can ricochet dialogue off each other with no squirmy moments. 

It stood in contrast, for me, with the scene between him and Sofia. These two drag each other down because the basis of their relationship is built on sand: Sofia's "our agreement's whatever I say it is" and all the You Shot The Pig And Brought Him Here Even Though That Was Actually ME thing is ridiculous, and Jim's pretending it isn't is deeply wearying to watch. Sofia doesn't have even one shred of proof that Jim did any such thing (because he didn't) and the fact that he went to Florida to talk to Carmine isn't even illegal. He didn't invite her to Gotham, nor is he responsible for what she's done there, especially since they've cut all scenes beyond some kissing to show that they were ever involved. If she keeps this up, let's face it: the only option she's leaving him is to shoot her!

And that seems to be where she's going, because she has now sunk her claws into my rehabilitated Lee and seems determined to drag her backwards into the turgidity and infuriating crap that was Everything To Do With Married Lee's Storyline. When Lee said "how could I refuse my sister in law?" I was honestly bewildered for a second because I had totally forgotten that entire thing; being reminded did not engage me.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Snookums

[festivus]

On 3/9/2018 at 8:44 AM, Miss Dee said:

I will never understand why "Bratman" didn't become a thing during Bruce's douche phase.

I tried, right here in these threads. I don't either because it was the first thing that came to my mind when he started being a little shit.

[jhlipton]

On 3/16/2018 at 3:51 PM, Danielg342 said:

Alexander Siddig is having a field day with me...

LOL

[Danielg342]

7 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

LOL

I have a friend whose last name is "Greenbaum" so that's why I mixed the two up.

[jhlipton]

30 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I have a friend whose last name is "Greenbaum" so that's why I mixed the two up.

yeah, riiiiight... LOL

[Danielg342]

On 18/03/2018 at 5:00 PM, jhlipton said:

yeah, riiiiight... LOL

It's true, though I admit there's no way I can show you.

[Ailianna]

On 3/16/2018 at 4:43 PM, jhlipton said:

"You're not really selling it."
"Oh, and you are?"

What I love is that those two characters (characters, not actors) are probably the worst actors of the cast, and they were so bad at it.  I wondered if even superficial Ivy love would do it, but it was so much better to have the Ivy-ettes not fall for it.

[John Potts]

On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 2:01 AM, HoodlumSheep said:

RA'S!!!! I was not expecting to see him

Must be a sweet gig for Alexander Siddig El Fadil - gets his name in the credits every week and has had about 2 mins of screentime. Though that face stealing bit was creeeeepy.

On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 2:01 AM, HoodlumSheep said:

MUSTACHE. THE MUSTACHE

What was it Gordon said? "I'll watch out for that"?

On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 8:43 PM, jhlipton said:

"You're not really selling it."
"Oh, and you are?"

Quick tip Gordon: If you're looking to bluff your way past somebody, best not to say that you're bluffing in front of them. They're mind whammied, not deaf!

On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 6:41 AM, tennisgurl said:

More shows should have fight scenes where the villains have a mime battle to solve a conflict.

It did strike me as the sort of thing the Joker would play along with - and even find funny. And given the way inmates regularly smuggle in drugs and weapons into prisons IRL, I can totally buy that he would be able to smuggle in a clown outfit, especially in Gotham. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 2:01 AM, HoodlumSheep said:

-The whole ozzy vs jerome bit had me dying of laughter. We went from ozzy comically failing to electrocute him, "that is a spoon"... "it is also a fork!!!!!", then a mime-off resulting in ozzy kneeing jerome in the face and calling him a gingersnap. Brilliant. 

-looks like we're getting an ivy arc for a while, too. Her plant pollen/seed stuff...gotham sure has taken a liking of having it's city under the constant threat of bad airborne substances. Wonder if it's gonna be a repeat of last season, but instead of turning bad you die/turn into a plant

Me too, we have to admire Oswald's inventiveness and quick-thinking. About time we had Ivy with some screentime, she's been MIA for ever!

On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 3:49 AM, small potatoes said:

I agree about Peyton List, and it's too bad because I really like the story line. 

 

 

I liked her but her hair should be a bit more red (equally Selina is referred to as a 'brunette', I would call her a dirty blonde?) Love the scene when Selina storms out and Ivy looks crestfallen, knowing she's lost her only friend. Maybe she could hook up with Firefly?

On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 4:46 AM, Lantern7 said:

Give Ivy credit for one thing: breaking Bruce out of his douchedom. Granted, it was out of punishing him for shit that he had little clue about. Plus side: wacky drug trip where the cast slips into the episode in wacky costumes. Bullock is Alfred, Alfred is Special Forces, Gordon has a mustache, and Batman uses time-travel to scare Bruce straight. Didn't think "Gordon with mustache" was funny until afterward. Reminds me of a comic speculating on the series finale of Gotham: Gordon on a rooftop, opening a box containing glasses and a mustache.

Once again, Selina might be the sanest character. Well, if you overlook she hangs out with two killers, and one of them is Barbara Keane, who probably belongs in Arkham more than Oswald at this point. But bringing her into a robbery and killing somebody while she's poking around? Apparently, that's where she draws the line.

Interesting scene, very Great Gatsby, Harvey with a fowl (in league with Penguin?), Lee as Cleopatra, a scheming woman of power, Jim with a moustache AND partnered with Barbara (hope for Batgirl yet?), Bruce having his face cut off and handed to the Joker (who ALSO had HIS face cut off).

 As for Selina, the Sirens rip off drug-dealing biker gangs who had it coming, this family were innocent. I was scared she was going to do all of them but thankfully she only did the dad. But she kills the poor folks whose apartment she's squatting in instead. 

On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 4:58 PM, icemiser69 said:

So Bruce wants Alfred back.  I so hope that Alfred is the bigger man and just comes back.  I can't handle the wimpy whiny stuff.  Alfred isn't supposed to be wimpy and whiny.

 I rather hope Alfred just doesn't come running back I hope it takes some persuasion for him. 

Ju Jitsu Lucius? Love to see him do some fighting some time. 

When the whammied cops start doing their "Ivy's a psycho routine" Jim should have "I mean she's crazy beautiful". Nice to see Alvarez back. 

On ‎17‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 4:55 AM, Snookums said:

Barbara's "Oh, hey Jim, I found Selena, she's over there" as he's racing by her to catch S. Why oh why can't Erin Richards get her own spin off? Her massive talents are wasted here. She took a thirty second walk on and made it brilliant.

The entire dream sequence, but especially the party: nothing like "If we got F Scott Fitzgerald to write this thing but made sure he was tripping on Ecstasy the entire time" to really round out the experience. Jim's mustache! Barbara's flapper rig, with Lee as Cleopatra! But we're still missing something; Harvey, hold this chicken! It even advanced the plot and Bruce's character development: he's afraid that he's losing himself in his hedonism, that R'as is taking him over, and the darkness within him finally taking shape.

It's interesting how many people couldn't stand Lee in the first season but love her now she's crazy/evil. Love how she refers to Selina as an outdoor kitty, Tabby and her really do think of her as their pet.   

Don't forget Selina in her black push up pvc bra! Now that Camren's 18 the writers are all sitting around going "Great let's have her show more of her body now!".

SAS Alfred looking like he's storming the Iranian embassy, complete with subdued Union Jack!

Nice to see that Ivy's whammy can be cured with just a swift punch? Very cowboy.

So who's Ivy going to bring back? Her dad (that would be messy)? Pyg? Falcone? Maroni? 

Lee and Sophia, is she threatening her or going to corrupt her further?

Wracked my brain to find some significance to Oswald's and Cameron's inmate numbers E146 and E158 but couldn't come up with anything?

[Camera One]

This episode was alright.  I liked Jim working with Selena.  I agree the new Ivy is rather bland.  

I usually like dream sequences but I thought this one was too hokey.  It seems like an easy out to sober Bruce up.  

I'm not a huge fan of the Joker, so the Arkham scenes were a little tedious.