S04.E08: Nothing is Set in Stone

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Greg and Jazz surprise Jeannette with a wedding vow renewal ceremony; Jazz gets an unexpected gift in her 17th birthday; Dr. Volker makes a decision about Jazz's therapy letter; Dr. Bowers has one final ultimatum regarding Jazz's bottom surgery.

Season finale.  Jazz it up but remember all of our standard rules still apply. 

[CousinAmy]

Wedding vow renewal ceremony = Official Shark-Jumping Episode.

[ClareWalks]

I am trying to remember any times I've seen a vow-renewal between quasi-celebrities that didn't result in a divorce within 1 year. Nope. Can't think of any. RIP Greg and Jeanette's marriage, you had a good run.

[gingerella]

If Dr. Volker gives her a letter it will be total bullshit.

Edited February 21, 2018 by gingerella

[MegD]

Can someone enlighten me as to why exactly it's so critical she have this surgery at 17 instead of 18? She's woefully unprepared emotionally for it and doesn't seem to actually want to go forward with it outside of the TLC script. Is it because she has to be a "pioneer" or something? She's currently in virtual school so she's at home and I suspect that come next year she'll be contemplating a gap year or staying at home a semester. She's not ready to leave the nest. So why rush surgery when a year could give her a chance to be in the right mindset?

[Concerned]

Notice the side hug for Victoria and when Victoria leaned in for a kiss, Jazz turned away. Jazz words say she wants a relationship, but her body language says no.

 

Likely they’ve already decided not to do surgery for a few years, but they are going to keep the show going by slow rolling and doing stunts like vow renewal, white water rafting etc. Next season expect Hawaii like Whitney’s show.

[Quilty]

Vow renewal = divorce in a year

[KBrownie]

18 minutes ago, Quilty said:

Vow renewal = divorce in a year

Seriously.  The way Jeanette just completely and utterly disrespects and undermines him when it comes to Jazz is disgusting.  And Jazz is a willing accomplice and participant.  Way to treat your father and husband, Jazz and Jeanette!  And it really is too bad because Greg seems like such a nice, reasonable, and upstanding guy.  They don't deserve him.  He should just focus on his other three kids.  He's done a good job with them, but he's too much of a good guy to do that.

And (I believe it was) Sander removed all doubt about how the other kids know they are second-tier in that family when it comes to Jazz when he said that the parents wouldn't have done the same for him and the other two when they were that age, but that "Jazz gets what Jazz wants."

[kicotan]

How sad for Greg...but, amidst all that sadness, he can pat himself on the back because he's accomplished something.  He's managed to keep his family together and alive.  I think that's the bottom line for him.  Whatever Jeanette and Jazz do (get a tattoo, schedule gender confirmation surgery) as long as Jazz doesn't go off the rails, he's a winner.

I thought she had to have two letters of referral to be approved?  Is it just one and done now?

[bichonblitz]

1 hour ago, Quilty said:

Vow renewal = divorce in a year

Greg should be so lucky. 

[Sile]

I'm pretty sure that Grandpa's (and maybe Greg's) main objection is that they are Jewish.  Sure, lots of the newer generation of Jews don't heed the "no marks" law but they are the newer generation.  I'm glad that Jeanette got the stone faces at dinner when she was supposed to be the center of attention.  She deserved it for going behind Greg's back.  I can give her a pass on the surgery scheduling as, if the events played as shown, she never really had a chance to talk to Greg about that before Jazz "pulled a Jazz".

Pulling a Jazz being taking any occassion and turning it into all about her.  She must have been ready to explode since nobody had noticed the tattoo under the short sleeves and sheer lace she'd been wearing.  She's got to know that even if her grandparents aren't practicing Jews, that kind of stuff would not fly with them.

[janedi]

Writing as a I watch

Tennis scene: 

-From my experience a wedding vow renewal on a reality tv show using spells trouble for the marriage. This vow renewal just reminds me of Jon and kate plus 8. They had a big lovey dovey wedding vow renewal episode, and soon after they split up and had a messy divorce. Their whole family is now broken. I can definitely see the Jennings going down that same path.

-Interesting that Gregg is doing a talking head alone, has this happened before?  Jon and kate also started doing individual talking heads before the big split.

Kitchen scene:

-I just can't see Jazz as an adult. She is so immature. I feel like Jazz only wants a tattoo to impress Victoria. We have never heard anything about her wanting this until she showed up.

-Wow! Jazz has gotten so used to getting her way, she feels no shame just outright saying she will be upset if she doesn't get what she wants.

-They may as well let Jazz get the tattoo. They've already allowed way more extreme forms of body modification. What difference does it make?

- I get the feeling that Dr Bowers, does not want to do this surgery and is trying to get out of it.

Grandparents scene:

-I love Grandpa Jack. He is so shady and is always insulting people on the low. Did he just lowkey admit that Jeanette and Gregg have considered divorce?? OMG! I can believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them(probably Gregg\) was cheating.

Car scene

-Deep sigh   Dr Volker did NOT say she wasn't signing the letter until she looses weight.  She said she wants jazz to fix the issue that's causes her to binge eat in the first place. Jeanette and Jazz have serious comprehension issues, that or they hear what they want to hear. Dr Volker should reject Jazz exactly for that reason.

- Yeah Jeanette Jazz might be miserable if Victoria rejects her. But guess what? That's called real life. Hopefully this show wont shame or demonize Victoria if she decides she doesn't want to be in a relationship with Jazz.

Dr Volker's office

-Once again Jazz looks like she's gaining weight, not loosing it. So I doubt she's actually resisting food like she claims.

- The fact that Dr. Volker legitimizes the hypnotherapy bull, makes me question her credibility. Thank God she didn't write the letter.

Bedroom scene

-I really hope Greg refuses consent for the surgery. If Jazz decides to do it when she turns 18 he wont have that on his conscience.

-Looks like Gregg agrees with me that Jazz wants a tattoo because of Victoria. Glad he's still speaking up more. Jeanette really shuts him down when he tries to speak. It's no wonder jazz acts the way she does.

Car /tattoo parlor scene

-Jazz is already complaining about being trapped by virtual school. Tough break you little brat. You wanted it, you got it.

-This tattoo thing is so staged, TLC set this up, not Jay and Victoria. Their not even friends. TLC needs to try harder.

-I still don't buy that Victoria likes Jazz, Their relationship just seems like a little kid with a crush on a much older girl and the girl is nice to them, to not hurt their feelings. .Jazz should forget about Victoria and just date Jay. They would make a cute couple. And Jay seems like she's used to her bullshit.

-That tattoo is ugly. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a temporary tattoo.

Car ride

- Jazz seems almost giddy at the thought of her Grandfather having chest pains because of that tattoo. Kinda odd...

-Jazz does not look like she lost 12 pounds. And something in her eyes and facial expression did not look happy about hearing the surgery date. It was very subtle, but it was there.  It's like she was trying to sound happy. 

-I still wonder how the orgasm situation is going to resolved. Bowers seemed very concerned about it but has hardly mentioned it since. That's a serious issue that is not going to go away. It would be very unethical to operate on Jazz knowing she will never experience sexual pleasure. I don't care what anyone says. She has already lost her fertility, robbing her of a future sex life is inhumane and cruel.

Club Met/Wedding Scene

-I hate that Tye Dye Dress Jazz always wear.  It is very unflattering and she has worn it at least 4 times this season.

- In every scene, Ari always looks like she doesn't want to be there. I don't blame her.

- That is the ugliest dress I've ever seen. And Jeanette's hair looks a greasy mess. Jazz could have used a hair wash as well. I think Jeanette would look better if she got rid of the fake blond hair and wore her natural dark hair.

Dinner Scene

-Greg is adorable for an older guy, He deserves so much better than what he gets.

-I see it's back to Jazz. Leave it to her to ruin yet another family occasion and make it all about her. Once again she looks elated to be causing her grandfather grief.

-Jazz and the family are Jewish, and according to Jewish law it's forbidden to have tattoos and you can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery if you have one, so I understand why the other family members were so upset. However, it's strange how they are so upset about a tattoo, but none of them had any issue with the drastic permanent changes being made to Jazz's body. A tattoo is nothing compared to toying with a child's health by blocking their natural puberty development, giving them estrogen and stunting their growth  Just saying.

- I always love seeing the twins allow themselves to be honest about the special treatment Jazz gets. I bet they've had to hold so much stuff in over the years. You can just tell. It's nice to see them let some steam off. Griffin knows his mom very well, he's right on the money about her. "Jazz gets what Jazz wants, pretty much sums up this family."

-So Jeanette signed the consent form without Gregg's permission. surprise surpise.  He specifically told her he wanted to talk with Jazz before agreeing. But once again Jeanette heard what she wanted to hear.

- Jazz is rubbing that tattoo in the whole family's face. She is really a piece of work. Grandpa looks so done, he looks devastated.

-Of course Jeanette made a surgery date without Greg. She has no respect for him. Their marriage is dysfunctional and toxic.

- 5 minutes after the vow renewal and it's looks like the marriage is already starting to crumble. Gregg is pissed and like he's going to snap any day now.

- The separate talking heads again stands out for me.

-Wow the look in Greg's eyes at the end of this episode?? All I can say is something has definitely changed

Flash forward scene

6 pounds in 2 months is nothing. I can lose that in a week.

5 hours ago, MegD said:

Can someone enlighten me as to why exactly it's so critical she have this surgery at 17 instead of 18? She's woefully unprepared emotionally for it and doesn't seem to actually want to go forward with it outside of the TLC script. Is it because she has to be a "pioneer" or something? She's currently in virtual school so she's at home and I suspect that come next year she'll be contemplating a gap year or staying at home a semester. She's not ready to leave the nest. So why rush surgery when a year could give her a chance to be in the right mindset?

Well they said the hormone Blocker runs out wen she's 17 in the past seasons, so maybe that has something to do with it. They cost $20,000. Messing with nature is not cheap.

Edited February 21, 2018 by janedi

[missnoa]

They're really padding out this season with nonsense nobody cares about. Jeanette is seriously desperate to just give in and give Jazz whatever she wants whenever she wants, it's just sad. Even the brothers called out that she shouldn't have gotten that tattoo and that they wouldn't have let the twins do it. The fact that she went and did it without telling Dad they were going to do it just highlights that Greg has zero control, Jazz does what she wants and Jeanette is her weak willed friend and not her mother. And he didn't even know that they had set a surgical date! How stupid is Jeanette to not realize that she needed to tell JAZZ'S FATHER that a freaking surgery date had been decided? Why did they have that conversation without him? The constant disrespect is unreal but Greg really needs to find a backbone and stop letting it happen.

Also, I really don't buy that Jazz is dealing with her cravings and just going to sleep every time she gets hungry at night. It took her two months to lose 6 pounds. It's ridiculous. I don't think Jazz is going to handle surgery well but for her sake I hope she gets through it as easily as possible.

Edited February 21, 2018 by missnoa

[SDVegas]

Greg can do so much better than that wife he has.

I wonder what attracted him to her in the first place. He was much more attractive than she was when they got married, and now he is so much kinder than she is, and she is selfish and disrespectful to him. He deserves better.

[Visaman666]

Two letters are still required. They just assumed that Volkner would be the "easy" one. The 2nd letter will have to be from a virtual stranger. It's the 2nd letter that is the important one.

Before the letter requirements, surgery was only given to those  who were openly talking suicide. Surgery was exclusively done ( on the States) ay John Hopkins.

When John Hopkins stopped petforming the surgery, it was  open to any plastic surgeon who had a shingle, so the Benjamin Rules of care was written up. The rules were still very strict, and only loosened up in the past 4 or 5 years.

I should also point out that in The Province Of British Columbia (Canada) the patient must be of legal age ( 19). Once the two letters are obtained, the letters and medical chart must be sent to the Government for approval. The process can take up to a year for approval.

In the States it's not as strict

A lot of trans people get the surgery in Asia, as it is cheaper and not as strict. Think of the Lady bois in Thailand.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Visaman666
Adding information

[rwlevin]

That tattoo is not going to last. A water color on the inside of the arm? No way. And also she was an idiot to mention the tattoo in front of her grandparents. I hid mine as long as I could. And I then I hid the second one as long as I could. And then my grandmother threatened to disown me after the third so I pretended the fourth was a part of the third.

 

also, the Jewish cemetery rule is a myth. The law is you can’t cut into the skin, like scarification. But since tattoos use needles to deposit ink, it’s ok.

 

No Victoria on the two month update? I guess that “relationship” pretty much fizzled out.

[Kid]

10 hours ago, KBrownie said:

Seriously.  The way Jeanette just completely and utterly disrespects and undermines him when it comes to Jazz is disgusting.  And Jazz is a willing accomplice and participant.  Way to treat your father and husband, Jazz and Jeanette!  And it really is too bad because Greg seems like such a nice, reasonable, and upstanding guy.  They don't deserve him.  He should just focus on his other three kids.  He's done a good job with them, but he's too much of a good guy to do that.

And (I believe it was) Sander removed all doubt about how the other kids know they are second-tier in that family when it comes to Jazz when he said that the parents wouldn't have done the same for him and the other two when they were that age, but that "Jazz gets what Jazz wants."

These were my thoughts exactly when I saw the look on his face when she revealed the tattoo. It did not surprise me at all when her brother spoke up.   I wish I could’ve given you five likes on your post.

If this is all scripted, that is one thing. If this is real, there are real problems in that marriage and real dysfunction in the family.  

I think TLC needs to change the name of the show to I Am Jazz and Jeanette.

[calpurnia99]

That Tattoo was ugly. The dad wanted approval of the size, shape and place for the tattoo. That was much bigger than he wanted and in a move obvious spot. 

TLC plans the vow renewal. The Little Couple also had one.  Jeannette was not surprised, she knew all about it. I don't understand otherwise how they would have found a dress she would be okay with wearing that fit her. She sort of blew it when she walked into the hotel and said "What do I do? Do I not check in?". She is a bad actress.

Greg said at the end that he won't sign off on the surgery if he sees that she is not making certain efforts with school and the diet. Honestly, he has NO say at all. He will be forced to sign off on it against his will. He has NO backbone. 

[Lynn]

A few thoughts:

I am not fond of Janette, but I must say that their wedding picture was beautiful. 

Janette does not put any value in Greg's concerns. They should continue as they are for another year so Jazz can be entirely responsible for this huge decision. Clearly, Greg doesn't want to be responsible for it.

What if, after growing up, Jazz decides she was really that gay boy of her "past life" waking dream? Too late.  Actor Rupert Everette wrote that he wanted to be a girl when he was a child and his parents let him wear dresses and do girl things. When he hit puberty, he realized he was a gay man and is now grateful his parents did not block puberty or encourage surgery.

[Kid]

1 hour ago, Lynn said:

A few thoughts:

I am not fond of Janette, but I must say that their wedding picture was beautiful. 

Janette does not put any value in Greg's concerns. They should continue as they are for another year so Jazz can be entirely responsible for this huge decision. Clearly, Greg doesn't want to be responsible for it.

What if, after growing up, Jazz decides she was really that gay boy of her "past life" waking dream? Too late.  Actor Rupert Everette wrote that he wanted to be a girl when he was a child and his parents let him wear dresses and do girl things. When he hit puberty, he realized he was a gay man and is now grateful his parents did not block puberty or encourage surgery.

I really don’t understand the rush either.

[Granny58]

1 hour ago, Lynn said:

What if, after growing up, Jazz decides she was really that gay boy of her "past life" waking dream? Too late.  Actor Rupert Everette wrote that he wanted to be a girl when he was a child and his parents let him wear dresses and do girl things. When he hit puberty, he realized he was a gay man and is now grateful his parents did not block puberty or encourage surgery.

I hope Jazz hasn't had the surgery yet.  I don't think she is ready and needs more therapy and introspection.  I read on another site that when Jazz was 3 Jeanette said "oh my pretty girl" or something like that because Jazz liked conventionally feminine things.   I HOPE TO GOD that if this is what Jazz does, it is because Jazz really wants it and is not caught up in Jeanette's scenario.  The longer Jazz can wait, the more maturity can develop and, hopefully, growing apart from her parents.  THEN the choice should be made.  I actually feel quite sorry for Jazz (which is not easy given the brattiness often displayed) . 

[Fostersmom]

5 hours ago, calpurnia99 said:

TLC plans the vow renewal. The Little Couple also had one.  Jeannette was not surprised, she knew all about it. I don't understand otherwise how they would have found a dress she would be okay with wearing that fit her. She sort of blew it when she walked into the hotel and said "What do I do? Do I not check in?". She is a bad actress.

I'm pretty sure every TLC family has had a vow renewal. I'm pretty sure they just have one master TLC vow renewal script and just slap a new Post-it on the cover with the current family name on it. The Duggars had one, Jon and Kate had one, Honey BooBoos parents had one of sorts. It's like they got a bulk rate on this shit. 

[abbey]

I fell asleep watching the show so I have a couple of questions.    Apparently, from the comments above, a surgery date has been made?  How can they do that if they don't have 2 consent letters? From the little I saw Dr. Bowers said that she couldn't do the surgery unless Jazz lost more weight.  Are they just scheduling the operation and hoping Jazz magically loses weight and obtains 2 letters?  And is Dr. Bowers the one doing the surgery? 

[calpurnia99]

20 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

I'm pretty sure every TLC family has had a vow renewal. I'm pretty sure they just have one master TLC vow renewal script and just slap a new Post-it on the cover with the current family name on it. The Duggars had one, Jon and Kate had one, Honey BooBoos parents had one of sorts. It's like they got a bulk rate on this shit. 

I knew I'd seen a few of them! I saw the Duggar Jim Bob one, and hear about Jon and Kate! I know I also saw the LIttle Couple, so when they said Vow Renewal I just chuckled. I bet Big Fat Fabulous Life her parents have one next.  Anyway Jeannette totally knew about it. 

[ClareWalks]

The tattoo situation is so ridiculous. Jeanette of course doesn't give a shit because she is one of the most permissive parents I have ever seen. So Greg should have full authority over where and how large it is. If Jazz doesn't agree, well, she can wait until she's 18 and get whatever the fuck she wants. It's just annoying as hell that her parents give her everything she wants out of guilt.

[Cotypubby]

12 hours ago, janedi said:

 However, it's strange how they are so upset about a tattoo, but none of them had any issue with the drastic permanent changes being made to Jazz's body. A tattoo is nothing compared to toying with a child's health by blocking their natural puberty development, giving them estrogen and stunting their growth  Just saying.

 

I don't think it's the case at all that "none of them had any issue" with putting Jazz on hormone blockers way back when, but they weighed the options at the time and decided that would be best for Jazz's well-being. I'm sure the grandparents & Greg had more resistance to it than Jeanette, but that's no longer a big issue for them. It definitely wasn't the case that Jazz said "I want to be a girl" and the whole family was immediately like "OK! Here's your blockers! Have fun!" I believe I remember hearing in earlier seasons how they agonized over whether or not to do it.

That tattoo she got is ugly. Grandpa is right, it's hard to even tell that is a mermaid! I thought it was weird that the tattoo artist had no visible tattoos herself, it made me wonder if she actually was doing the tattoo or if that whole thing was fake.

[maggiegil]

If the tattoo wasn't real its a pretty big lie but if it is real and it did happen under the circumstances we saw then it was illegal. Either parent would have had to be there in person, not just submit a consent form. I shouldn't be shocked by reality TV lies but I'm kind of shocked that they did one that is so easily verifiable as untrue

 

Quote

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0381/Sections/0381.00787.html

(2) A person may not tattoo the body of a minor child who is at least 16 years of age, but younger than 18 years of age, unless:

(a) The minor child is accompanied by his or her parent or legal guardian;

(b) The minor child and his or her parent or legal guardian each submit proof of his or her identity by producing a government-issued photo identification;

(c) The parent or legal guardian submits his or her written notarized consent in the format prescribed by the department;

(d) The parent or legal guardian submits proof that he or she is the parent or legal guardian of the minor child;

[keetmommy]

So is surgery scheduled for up coming June or was it last June, wonder when they finished filming??

 

Greg is DONE...he isnt gonna put up with this shit anymore, there is NO reason to be going around him with the major decisions.

[Concerned]

35 minutes ago, keetmommy said:

So is surgery scheduled for up coming June or was it last June, wonder when they finished filming??

 

Greg is DONE...he isnt gonna put up with this shit anymore, there is NO reason to be going around him with the major decisions.

Nothing is set in stone. Show title. The tentative date is June 20, 2018,  but don’t count on it.

[Kid]

41 minutes ago, Concerned said:

Nothing is set in stone. Show title. The tentative date is June 20, 2018,  but don’t count on it.

I believe that once she is 18, her weight will not be an issue.  If I understood Dr Bowers at the beginning, her BMI has to be at a certain level because she’s under age and that’s the only way she will get the hospital’s approval for an under age person. Again, I do not understand, why the rush.  

Also, as many of you have pointed out, emotional maturity would be an asset as well when she finally gets the surgery.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, I think that Dr. Bowers said she was penciling it in, but, if things weren't right, it would NOT happen. 

I certainly hope that enough concern is generated so that the surgery is held up.  I suspect that Jazz and her mom likely thought that a season of her trying to get surgery would be great, informative, thought provoking, etc.  I bet they didn't realize that after seeing what we were shown, viewers are CONCERNED about it.  Shame on Jeannette.  There is something off with her.  I've defended her plenty since the show started, but, she's messed up.  And while I feel for Greg.......it's his duty to protect Jazz too.  And it might entail disagreeing with Jeannette. He has let Jazz down too.  

At this age, I doubt there is much they can do about the over indulgence of Jazz.  Do they honestly think all that catering to her every whim is a positive thing?  It has handicapped her.   Perhaps, the only thing left is to delay the surgery long enough for Jazz to be ready emotionally and psychologically.  I hope Greg can pull that off. 

I do hope that Greg can find some peace and happiness.  He sure seems to love Jeannette.  I have no idea why. She's horrible to him.  Greg, may need some help with therapy too.  He needs to get some self-confidence and find a life that is free of Jeannette and Jazz's unreasonable demands. 

I'm pretty liberal, but, a tattoo on a minor........that's pretty whacked, imo.   I'm pretty sure, I would have told them that I thought they had lost their minds. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Nohardfeelings]

Hmmm, I think Dr Bowers said Jazz would have to have her weight together at least 3 months before the surgery. If the tentative date is in June, she has to have lost 30 pounds by next month. 

[ClareWalks]

The anniversary vow renewal was in September I think, so the "two months later" was November, where she had 12 lb to go (she looked like she could lose more than that IMO). If she has continued to lose 1 lb a week she will definitely hit her goal by March. Was this the season finale?

[bichonblitz]

Jeez, they can't even agree to say NO to the tattoo. Greg didn't want to allow it at first. Then guess what? Jeanette said yes. So, it's a yes, of course. 

I really, really like Greg. He appears to be a great man, father, husband, and provider but where in hell is his backbone? Jeanette must have really worn him down after 24 years. 

[Concerned]

26 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Jeez, they can't even agree to say NO to the tattoo. Greg didn't want to allow it at first. Then guess what? Jeanette said yes. So, it's a yes, of course. 

I really, really like Greg. He appears to be a great man, father, husband, and provider but where in hell is his backbone? Jeanette must have really worn him down after 24 years. 

Why do people like Greg? He’s the same husband that all the women on 600 Pound Life has. Those husbands crumble and give their overweight wives garbage to eat rather than face wrath. Greg’s the same. He gives in to Janette even though Janette is insane because he can deal with her harsh criticisms.

[SunnyBeBe]

I think Greg is personable, fair and open minded, but, I do say he is equally responsible for protecting Jazz and apparently, he just let Jeannette take over and she hasn't done a good job.  She has no boundaries.  It's all OKAY, YES, YES to everything Jazz wants.  Man, when Jazz told her date that her plan was to marry a rich man, I guess she figured all she had to to was find one like Greg who will cater to your every whim.  Her mom lucked up that way.  And, if he doesn't happen, I guess, she'll just rely on her parents to do it.  I wonder if she has any inkling that in the work force, college, community, etc.  things don't always go your way.  

[Christina87]

16 minutes ago, Concerned said:

Why do people like Greg? He’s the same husband that all the women on 600 Pound Life has. Those husbands crumble and give their overweight wives garbage to eat rather than face wrath. Greg’s the same. He gives in to Janette even though Janette is insane because he can deal with her harsh criticisms.

Haha this is so true! I like Greg, but really because he is wealthy and attractive for his age. If he was an ugly bum who gave into his 600 pound wife's every demand, his appeal would severely lessen. I would still hold this opinion even if he was a good father to his 600 pound children! I think we women don't like to see one of the few outstanding men out there tied down to a woman who doesn't appreciate him, but yeah, he's got no backbone, and on the inside is a more book read version of these 600 pound life husbands!

[SunnyBeBe]

Is there any limit to what they won't indulge Jazz.....wild animals, motorcycle, handgun, etc.  I mean, it seems that Jeannette has ZERO judgment.  And Greg is too scared to stand firm.  It's a good thing their other children don't hold grudges.  I think I"d be more demonstrative about my disappointment. Of course, the boys have.  Recall a couple of seasons ago?  They were quite vocal to Jeannette about it.  Apparently, that has been forgotten. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Caracoa1]

If Jazz's hormone blockers runs out on her 17rh birthday then that means it ran out almost 5 months ago....how is that affecting her body?

[SunnyBeBe]

I found this animated surgical procedure fascinating.  Warning it does show how the vagina is constructed from male genitalia, but, it's all animated in a medical manner.  Quite amazing, imo.

I was going to post the link, but, with You tube links, it puts a photo of the video on the post.  It might be questionable, so I won't post it, but, you can find it on You tube with inquiry "male to female reassignment surgery." 

Edited February 22, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[bichonblitz]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wonder if she has any inkling that in the work force, college, community, etc.  things don't always go your way.  

Hellz no, she has no idea. She can thank her parents for that. 

[gingerella]

Jazz can't say how much she weighs aloud, but she talks about her mythical vagina nonstop to anyone's who is in earshot? How ridiculous and childish is that? WHY is Dr. MARCI Bowers allowing herself to look like a fool by even playing into this farce?

 

Why does Jeanette get a shitty roll your eyes look about Dr. Volker not giving them a letter on visit 1, and they STILL have not gone back anymore until just now? WTF? It doesn't sound like she's done ANY additional counseling work. At least Dr. V said that she will give a letter IF progress continues, but honestly? It sounds like all they want is for Jazz to lose weight and the counseling is just checking in to say hey I lost x pounds. That? Is not working on stuff through counseling. That? Is bullshit.

 

I can't feel sorry for Greg because he made his bed, he could lay down the law, god knows Jeanette's own parents would support stronger discipline for Jazz and would support Greg in that, I'm sure. He's a wimp. All talk, no action with Jazz, and she shows zero parental respect so they cave every time.  The boys respect their parents and they seem to listen to them because they have that respect level. Jazz doesn't give two shits anyone or anything expcept what she wants, all the time. Oh, and the vow renewal was soooo TLC driven bullshit. And that dress? Please, that was some heinous frock.  During the vows, when they showed Jazz in the background, she seemed very disinterested whereas Ari was crying at one point and the boys looked verklempt, but Jazz had this 'whatever' look. It felt like if the moment wasn't all about her, she couldn't be bothered. She also seems to never show genuine emotion. I really think she has deep social issues and it seems so glaring.

 

"Ever since I've been enrolled in virtual school I've been trapped in my house." YOU FUCKING DEMANDED TO BE IN VIRTUAL SCHOOL! What an ungrateful brat she is. She bitches and whines and threatens until she gets what she wants and gen complains about pretty much everything. So HOW is it going to be any different when she gets this surgery eventually? It's not going to wash away the shitload of issues she has. Again, I am confused as they why high profile doctors would want to be on TV associated with this basket case of a patient? 

 

And because it cannot be said enough, What.The.Fuck.Is.Up.With.Jeanette's.Glasses?!? Why does she dress like an old lady from 1979?

Edited February 23, 2018 by gingerella

[woodscommaelle]

3 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Then guess what? Jeanette said yes. So, it's a yes, of course. 

New TLC show: Say Yes to Jazz! ✨✨

I don’t like Dr. Marcy Bowers. She has a bedside manner I don’t care for.  Guess it doesn’t matter if she’s the only one who will do the surgery. 

Edited February 22, 2018 by woodscommaelle

[Bridget]

3 hours ago, gingerella said:

Jazz can't say how much she loud? How ridiculous and childish is that? WHY is Dr. MARCI Bowers allowing herself to look like a fool by even playing into this farce?

 

Why does Jeanette get a shitty roll your eyes look about Dr. Volker not giving them a letter on visit 1, and they STILL have not gone back anymore until just now? WTF? It doesn't sound like she's done ANY additional counseling work. At least Dr. V said that she will give a letter IF progress continues, but honestly? It sounds like all they want is for Jazz to lose weight and the counseling is just checking in to say hey I lost x pounds. That? Is not working on stuff through counseling. That? Is bullshit.

 

I can't feel sorry for Greg because he made his bed, he could lay down the law, god knows Jeanette's own parents would support stronger discipline for Jazz and would support Greg in that, I'm sure. He's a wimp. All talk, no action with Jazz, and she shows zero parental respect so they cave every time.  The boys respect their parents and they seem to listen to them because they have that respect level. Jazz doesn't give two shits anyone or anything expcept what she wants, all the time. Oh, and the vow renewal was soooo TLC driven bullshit. And that dress? Please, that was some heinous frock.  During the vows, when they showed Jazz in the background, she seemed very disinterested whereas Ari was crying at one point and the boys looked verklempt, but Jazz had this 'whatever' look. It felt like if the moment wasn't all about her, she couldn't be bothered. She also seems to never show genuine emotion. I really think she has deep social issues and it seems so glaring.

 

"Ever since I've been enrolled in virtual school I've been trapped in my house." YOU FUCKING DEMANDED TO BE IN VIRTUAL SCHOOL! What an ungrateful brat she is. She bitches and whines and threatens until she gets what she wants and gen complains about pretty much everything. So HOW is it going to be any different when she gets this surgery eventually? It's not going to wash away the shitload of issues she has. Again, I am confused as they why high profile doctors would want to be on TV associated with this basket case of a patient? 

 

And because it cannot be said enough, What.The.Fuck.Is.Up.With.Jeanette's.Glasses?!? Why does she dress like an old lady from 1979?

Jazz and bitching about school. Make it stop! I'll bet she misses Jayleen NOW because she's "trapped in her house." Did Jazz not understand the entire concept of virtual school? It doesn't mean she gets to go visit friends during lunch and then leave. 

I was so distracted by the crow's feet around Jeanette's eyes, but I did notice the ugly ass dress hanging in the hotel room. She even said "it looks like something my mom would wear."  WHO decided that it would be a good idea to highlight those deep wrinkles with light eyeshadow? I know they live in Florida, but I'm a redhead who lives in SoCal and I've worn sunblock on my face/body every day of my life. 

I loved the continual side eye that Greg threw at Jeanette. I also love how Jeanette would not look at him during dinner because she knew she screwed up. BIG TIME. Jeanette is major witch for not communicating with Greg about the UGLY ASS tattoo and the tentative surgery date.

That tattoo was seriously ugly. I love that her family told her they didn't even know what it was - because it's true! I watch Ink Master (no tattoos of my own) and even I was asking "where's the black liner?" It's got zero (if any) composition or legibility. I wouldn't be able to read it across the room. SO DAMN UGLY.

MVP goes to Griffen for telling it like it is. "Jazz gets what Jazz wants." LOVE that guy.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Bridget

[seasons]

I feel like this weight loss is just to get approved for surgery. Whenever that happens, she will go back to eating whatever she wants. Weight struggles may be a lifelong issue, perhaps at this age food is her only vice. For now.

 

So often I see a shadow of a moustache on jazz. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me?

[twinks]

Has her therapist ever figured out WHY she over eats? That needs to be resolved first (if it hasn't been). There's a whole lot going on that they don't seem to be addressing. Seasons, I know what you mean about the moustache, but I must admit Jazz is a better looking girl than her mom.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

25 minutes ago, seasons said:

So often I see a shadow of a moustache on jazz. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me?

Facial hair isn’t unheard of on cis-females, especially of certain ethnicities or hormonal challenges, so I’m not too concerned. Jazz’s dad seems to be of Sephardic descent, so it may just come with the territory. Maybe Jazz will decide to do something with it or maybe it doesn’t bother her.

[Visaman666]

7 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

If Jazz's hormone blockers runs out on her 17rh birthday then that means it ran out almost 5 months ago....how is that affecting her body?

Jazz will have to go on Spirolactone until the surgery. But who the hell knows? This is experimental territory.

[Bridget]

54 minutes ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Facial hair isn’t unheard of on cis-females, especially of certain ethnicities or hormonal challenges, so I’m not too concerned. Jazz’s dad seems to be of Sephardic descent, so it may just come with the territory. Maybe Jazz will decide to do something with it or maybe it doesn’t bother her.

THAT is what I couldn't put my finger on. Sephardic background makes total sense. Thank you!

I always assumed Jeanette was Jewish and that Greg was either Jewish too or he converted, but I didn't see a yarmulke on Greg's head (nor on Grandpa Jack) in their original wedding photos. I've never been to a Jewish wedding ceremony, but don't all of the men, even the non-Jewish ones, wear yarmulkes? Or Is that something that occurs only when the two people who are going to be married are both Jewish and practicing/observant? I did some Googling and learned that there are peeps of Sephardic origins in the world who aren't Jewish, so maybe they didn't have their wedding in a church or a temple? I know I'm overthinking it, but it's just one of those things I'm curious about.

When the kids were standing in the background during the vow renewal, it dawned on me that not a single one of them even remotely resembles Jeanette. It's not the first time I've noticed it (none of them are blonde or wear those God awful glasses! haha!), but maybe because they all resemble Greg so strongly, even the girls, that it is part of her deep desire to insert herself into her children's lives more than you average mama bear?  

I know Ari is over it, but would it have killed her to have washed and brushed her hair? Jazz needed to wash her hair too, but to be fair (and extra snarky), Jazz always looks like she needs to wash her hair. Or use some dry shampoo & throw her hair up into a bun. I know she's self-conscious about her ears sticking out, but an oily scalp is not attractive. Ever.

I get that Ari's the hippie chick who is low maintenance, but it would have been nice for her to brush & style her hair and maybe encourage her sister to do the same. They could've easily pulled some hair back into a barrette, thrown a head band on or pulled their hair back into a low ponytail or fishtail braid. Something to show you made an effort. I only mention this because the girls' appearance was such a stark contrast to how handsome the twins looked in their suits. I loved Sander's suit - what a great color! My only gripe is that I wish Sander had cut his hair for the event. The twins aren't bad looking guys! He looks like he hasn't had a haircut in six months OR he's trying to grow out his hair. I can't tell. 

[thebigboot]

On 2/21/2018 at 2:21 AM, janedi said:

Jazz and the family are Jewish, and according to Jewish law it's forbidden to have tattoos and you can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery if you have one, so I understand why the other family members were so upset. However, it's strange how they are so upset about a tattoo, but none of them had any issue with the drastic permanent changes being made to Jazz's body. A tattoo is nothing compared to toying with a child's health by blocking their natural puberty development, giving them estrogen and stunting their growth  Just saying.

“The eight rabbinical scholars interviewed for this article, from institutions like the Jewish Theological Seminary and Yeshiva University, said it’s an urban legend, most likely started because a specific cemetery had a policy against tattoos. Jewish parents and grandparents picked up on it and over time, their distaste for tattoos was presented as scriptural doctrine.”

Also, the rabbinical council ruled in favor of trans people. So yeah, no religious argument on that one.