S03.E14: My Brother's Keeper

[MostlyC]

When Chloe and Lucifer's investigation into the murder of a diamond thief points to one of Ella's brothers as the main suspect, Ella is driven to prove her brother's innocence; Linda is upset when Charlotte comes to her for help.

 

...how many brothers does Ella have?

[janeta]

Huh.  Ella actually wasn’t annoying. Loved the Cain/Amenadil (sp?) scenes. 

[enoughcats]

NCIS fans will have recognized the actress playing the Jewelry Store owner as a criminal in one NCIS who almost spit venom when she was discovered to be evil, and as the polygraph administrator (different episode) who had the hots for McGee. 

Are the fight scenes (Cain/ Amen this episode and Lucifer/Korean Gang last episode) a test to see if those will bring additional audience ?  

Where did Lucifer's protectiveness of Ella first appear?  I liked it a lot, but it was almost as if there were missing episodes to explain it.

[storyskip]

4 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

NCIS fans will have recognized the actress playing the Jewelry Store owner as a criminal in one NCIS who almost spit venom when she was discovered to be evil, and as the polygraph administrator (different episode) who had the hots for McGee. 

Are the fight scenes (Cain/ Amen this episode and Lucifer/Korean Gang last episode) a test to see if those will bring additional audience ?  

Where did Lucifer's protectiveness of Ella first appear?  I liked it a lot, but it was almost as if there were missing episodes to explain it.

Rewatch "Vegas with some Radish" it showed up there [ hammered home by his 'big brother' attitude towards Candy ] and (in my opinion) made that episode shine.

Lucifer as big brother from Hell (literally) for his mortal friends?  Sign me up!   

This dynamic with Chloe is 100xs better, in my opinion than the idea of a romantic attachment.  It makes more sense and the platonic chemistry between Ellis and German is actually spot on.

As usually I loved everybody and all the combinations in this episode.  What was unusual was Chloe didn't bother me as much as usual.  Huh ... show her being an effective detective, remove all the romantic nonsense between her and Pierce and her and Lucifer and what do you know.

Edited February 6, 2018 by storyskip

[ItCouldBeWorse]

With all this brother-killing-brother talk, how did it not come up that Lucifer killed Uriel?  Sure, he had a good reason to do so, but if Pierce knew about it (which I suppose he might not) he could have brought it up to Amanediel.  Also, why didn't the topic of why Pierce killed his brother arise?  In the Bible, it's due to jealousy, since Abel's sacrifice was more pleasing to God (since it was more genuine) then Cain's was, so there's that parallel with God preferring one brother over another.  Lost opportunities, in my opinion.

Edited February 6, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[UNOSEZ]

Strong episode... I feel like Charlotte will find out abt the celestials before Chloe.. Cuz how else  can Linda honestly assist her.. Plus then she can Interact with that team more... Hope they keep up all the interactions.. And as usual didnt really care abt the cotw... Really wish they could scrap that somehow and just have supernatural stuff wit some cop stugf every once in a while

[AnimeMania]

Why was my favorite part of the episode Maze bursting through the crime scene tape instead of going under and she does it twice. I also enjoyed went Maze saved Ella from getting ventilated.

[CoyoteBlue]

Still not a big fan of Ella lately, but when she whaled on her brother with her chancla, I found myself laughing out loud. 

I agree that Chloe is much more enjoyable as Luci's platonic detective partner and god, I hope they nix this thing with her fawning over Pierce. Trixie (and Maze) was a delight as always.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, CoyoteBlue said:

Trixie (and Maze) was a delight as always.

Too bad Trixie didn't learn that the Achilles is on the backside of the leg.

[JackONeill]

Question: Why do two immortals even bother fighting?

Playing chess might be a better way to determine who’s best, or who’s Father’s favorite. Plus it doesn’t make as much mess.

[NutMeg]

Really good episode - fiiiiinally this is the Maze I love and missed. Ella was also more of her old self. Hope it continues in that vein!

[Good Queen Jane]

Lucifer doesn't need his devil face back. His statement to Ella's brother that he would come for him if he ever disappointed Ella along with the look he gave him would be enough to scare me straight.

[jhlipton]

13 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Where did Lucifer's protectiveness of Ella first appear?  I liked it a lot, but it was almost as if there were missing episodes to explain it.

I think it started when they talked about faith -- when Ella said that proof was the opposite of faith.  That's when Lucifer realized she was, in essence, a kindred spirit.

26 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Lucifer doesn't need his devil face back. His statement to Ella's brother that he would come for him if he ever disappointed Ella along with the look he gave him would be enough to scare me straight.

It wasn't a full "devil face" -- he may still not be able to do that, and wouldn't want to drive Ella-Bro inane -- but there was Hell in his eyes for a moment.  Just enough to scare Jay straight.

[maxineofarc]

The dummies Maze had set up looked a bit like Linda and Amenadiel. That was about all that sustained me this ep; I think I might be halfway checked out, which makes me kinda sad.

[MissL]

I did like Lucifer being more capable and less of a doof this episode.  He tried to help Ella and while we didn't see it onscreen he was kind enough to send Charlotte to Linda and his talk with Linda was super sweet. "You're the best." "Charlotte did nothing to you."  Wish we'd seen more Charlotte and Linda but I'm guessing that's coming. 

Definitely some missed beats with Cain/Amenadiel/Lucifer.  If I remember my bible correctly, and I might not, it was a combo of killing a brother from jealousy and It was the FIRST murder? Right?  Some discussion about why he got that punishment when the world is full of killers now would be interesting. But I realize there are different interpretations of this story so... 

[kmcarte]

11 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

With all this brother-killing-brother talk, how did it not come up that Lucifer killed Uriel?  Sure, he had a good reason to do so, but if Pierce knew about it (which I suppose he might not) he could have brought it up to Amanediel.  Also, why didn't the topic of why Pierce killed his brother arise?  In the Bible, it's due to jealousy, since Abel's sacrifice was more pleasing to God (since it was more genuine) then Cain's was, so there's that parallel with God preferring one brother over another.  Lost opportunities, in my opinion.

That really was dumb that they skipped over it.  I feel like the writers are trying to pretend the whole Uriel thing never happened.  In the immediate aftermath Lucifer was so much more fragile and upset, but since the end of that season they haven't even brought it up (that I recall, correct me if I'm wrong).  I don't think they show wants to be that serious, they lean pretty hard on the silly/fun side of all this.  

 

Ella is without question my least favorite character.  They keep trying to use her as the morality pet of the group, but I think the Doctor does a much better job of filling that role.  Ella somehow manages to be both gratingly annoying and somehow overly sanctimonious on a show loosely based around religion.  Every time she's on the screen I wish she wasn't, and they keep giving her episodes that focus on her.  

[kmcarte]

18 minutes ago, MissL said:

Definitely some missed beats with Cain/Amenadiel/Lucifer.  If I remember my bible correctly, and I might not, it was a combo of killing a brother from jealousy and It was the FIRST murder? Right?  Some discussion about why he got that punishment when the world is full of killers now would be interesting. But I realize there are different interpretations of this story so... 

Yeah, there's so much good storytelling they could do with the biblical set up, but they always pic the laziest family dynamics angle to go for.  

[TVHappy9463]

Well I am really loving season 3. I like the added story and character development.  Chloe mentioned being an only child a couple of times. Anvils? Or just passing remarks?  Perhaps Cain is a brother, Adam and Eve had more children. Or maybe It’s Lucifer.  

[Writing Wrongs]

9 minutes ago, TVHappy9463 said:

Chloe mentioned being an only child a couple of times. Anvils? Or just passing remarks?  Perhaps Cain is a brother, Adam and Eve had more children. Or maybe It’s Lucifer.  

That's what I was thinking.

I'm really tired of Lucifer's rants about "Dad". I wish God would come down and kick his ass back to Hell.

[Bruinsfan]

3 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Lucifer doesn't need his devil face back. His statement to Ella's brother that he would come for him if he ever disappointed Ella along with the look he gave him would be enough to scare me straight.

Maybe it was just the actor, but the impression I got was that Jay Lopez' reaction to someone named Lucifer with glowing eyes threatening him was "whatever Homes, I'll be back in the fraudulent diamond trade the instant you're gone." That's not right—Chloe and other people who think he's an eccentric nightclub owner can be dismissive, but I want a return to Season 1 where anyone who realized he was actually who he claimed to be was terrified! Ideally that should even include Cain; he has no idea what the Devil has seen and done in Hell (or Heaven) or what he's capable of, and ought to be at least a bit concerned about what he's gotten himself into.

Aside from that though, the writing on this episode was pretty tight and I enjoyed all the characters. Return of an old writer who's been missing? Ella hasn't been this watchable in the past year, and Maze seemed fully her old (awesome) self.

[Rushmoras]

So, what was wrong in this ep... oh, right, Chloe was not mad at Lucifer in this episode! Must be a cold day in hell. I get the deja vu feeling that Cain telling Amenediel that he is being punished by God for trying to kill Lucifer is no newsflash. In S2 Amenediel figured that out already ("Pick a sin, brother"). More seriousish episode. Don't know whether I liked it a lot, but it wasa solid episode.

[lorbeer]

Quite enjoyable episode... But the Kain story bores me. I want show to be back to finding out why Chloe is the way she is and has this affect on Lucifer. And I want Lucifer to be the devil... and I want Amanadiel to stop being so sad and moody..

I'm looking forward to Charlotte and Linda thread, though.

[jhlipton]

6 hours ago, kmcarte said:

I feel like the writers are trying to pretend the whole Uriel thing never happened. 

They keep trying to use her as the morality pet of the group, but I think the Doctor does a much better job of filling that role.

I thought they referenced that when Cain (Kane) said that Amendiel "knew about killing a brother".

I was wondering who the medical Doctor was, and then realized you meant Linda.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

5 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

I thought they referenced that when Cain (Kane) said that Amendiel "knew about killing a brother".

He was talking about Amenadiel trying to kill Lucifer.

[tennisgurl]

18 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

With all this brother-killing-brother talk, how did it not come up that Lucifer killed Uriel?  Sure, he had a good reason to do so, but if Pierce knew about it (which I suppose he might not) he could have brought it up to Amanediel. 

Oh wow, that would have been awesome to bring up! Talk about a missed opportunity. 

Still, it was a good episode, and I always like the episodes that get more into the cosmic stuff and not just the procedural cases. I actually really like the Cain story lately, and throwing Ami into the mix is always a good call, even when he isn't being super helpful. You would think he would want Cain dead and off the earth at this point, but I suppose his cosmic punishment isn't over yet. A little redundant smashing the crap out of each other, when both of them are immortal, but I guess it makes them feel better. 

I also loved when Chloe said something about how they cant make this case all about Lucifer for once! And, hey, I actually liked Ella again! She was still quirky and energetic, but less annoying and ditsy than they've been writing her, so that really helped the episode for me. Plus, she and Maze are a fun combination, and I always like when they mix and match the cast. I really do want Ella to find out the truth about Lucifer (and Ami and Maze) are from, as an actual religious person. I do wish we had more focus on some of the other characters, but I like this version of her. 

Trixie cameo! The best kind of cameo!

[Helena Dax]

6 hours ago, kmcarte said:

 

Ella is without question my least favorite character.  They keep trying to use her as the morality pet of the group, but I think the Doctor does a much better job of filling that role.  Ella somehow manages to be both gratingly annoying and somehow overly sanctimonious on a show loosely based around religion.  Every time she's on the screen I wish she wasn't, and they keep giving her episodes that focus on her.  

Yeah, I can't stand her either.

Loved Lucifer in that last scene with Ella's brother, he was appropriately scary even if the brother didn't react like he should have reacted. And it's ridiculous how much I liked seeing his demon eyes again. 

When Lucifer said that he would like to be able to kill his own brother, Uriel came to my mind. Considering how upset Luci was after killing him, the joke felt odd. 

I'm so happy Linda became Charlotte's theraprist! Charlotte really needs help, and sorry, but becoming Ella's pal isn't going to do it. Linda's perfect for her. And I agree that she might learn about Heaven and Hell before Chloe does. (Which, imo, would be a mistake,, but that's another story).

[johntfs]

10 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Lucifer doesn't need his devil face back. His statement to Ella's brother that he would come for him if he ever disappointed Ella along with the look he gave him would be enough to scare me straight.

And yet I think he might have gotten some of his "devil face" back.  It looked like his eyes glowed for just half-a-second while he was threatening the brother.

[johntfs]

On 2/6/2018 at 10:26 AM, kmcarte said:

That really was dumb that they skipped over it.  I feel like the writers are trying to pretend the whole Uriel thing never happened.  In the immediate aftermath Lucifer was so much more fragile and upset, but since the end of that season they haven't even brought it up (that I recall, correct me if I'm wrong).  I don't think they show wants to be that serious, they lean pretty hard on the silly/fun side of all this.  

Actually, no, it wasn't.  Figure the whole thing is still kind of painful for Lucifer so he doesn't bring it up.  Remember as well that if he brings it up, especially to Pierce, he also has to go into the way that Uriel died.  As in, "Oh, yeah, I killed him with Azrael's blade.  That totally would have killed you, too.  And you wouldn't even have gone to Hell, either.  You'd have been completely destroyed and utterly at peace, everything you say that you want.  But I used the blade to send Mom to another dimension and tossed most of the blade in after her.  Sucks to be you, huh?"

Edited February 8, 2018 by johntfs

[Sakura12]

How come no mentions to Cain that if he does manage to die he will be going to actual hell, which would pretty much be him living out his worst nightmare over and over again, which would be to think he's still alive on Earth. 

I did like Lucifer telling Linda that Charlotte is just a another person that was hurt by his mother. Ella was less annoying this episode, still don't care about her though. However I was glad to see Maze back she's been missing for awhile. I also hope they can bring Lilith in, I want to meet Maze's mother.

[Bruinsfan]

I wonder if something like the Silk Man or the Jin En Mok (if either exist in this adaptation) would be able to help end Cain where Lucifer and Amenadiel can't by dint of being entities from before/outside creation? In the comics the former enacted a plot that very nearly negated Lucifer's existence, despite him being the next closest thing to unkillable in the source material.

[jewel21]

I really liked Ella and Trixie's t-shirt. I want one badly.

Loved seeing Trixie training alongside Maze with her own cardboard blades, hee.

I'm also really excited to see Linda treating Charlotte. I loved Lucifer gently reminding Linda that Charlotte is not his mother. Great scene between the two of them, finished off by him pouring more alcohol into her coffee cup, hee.

Lucifer is really lax about the constant destruction of his club. I'm be freaking out, heh.

[speedy44]

First time I've posted in this forum. I miss the IMDB forums. Good episode. I am glad other posters are not fans of Ella. She has to be one of my least favorite characters ever. Not sure if it is the writing or the actress doing this. But they try so hard to make her quirky, it comes across as so fake. Annoys me to no end. When they went to Vegas, that was the pinnacle of her fakeness. Acting so jittery because she's this card shark. Yes we can tell that you are hiding something. Oh my lord. I wish they didn't introduce her as regular character. It's great when she is either not in the episode or in it barely.

But yes she was less annoying this episode, but still brought it out when she was trying to guilt trip Maze. I kinda wanted Maze to punch her.

I did find it funny that Trixie and Maze are training together. That's cute. I too hope that Chloe stops with her crush on Pierce/Cain.

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, jewel21 said:

Loved seeing Trixie training alongside Maze with her own cardboard blades, hee.

I just had a thought

Spoiler

Trixie is going to become Maze's "soul" in some manner.

[Sakura12]

No one will ever bother Trixie, not only does she have a demon bodyguard she's being trained to fight by the demon bodyguard. 

[jhlipton]

6 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

No one will ever bother Trixie, not only does she have a demon bodyguard she's being trained to fight by the demon bodyguard. 

Next time someone tries to kidnap her, she won't need her Mommy to rescue her or Uncle Lucy to send him to Hell!

[johntfs]

Trixie is being trained by Maze in combat (and likely torture), while having Lucifer around to guide her ethics.  Trixie is going to be utterly terrifying by the time she reaches high school.  Father help the mean girls in her path, because no one else can.

[enoughcats]

14 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

How come no mentions to Cain that if he does manage to die he will be going to actual hell, which would pretty much be him living out his worst nightmare over and over again, which would be to think he's still alive on Earth. 

And that trip to hell would be distinctive from his current life ........how? 

(With homage to Dr. Linda's first husband episode earlier this season.)

[Bruinsfan]

9 hours ago, speedy44 said:

But yes she was less annoying this episode, but still brought it out when she was trying to guilt trip Maze. I kinda wanted Maze to punch her.

Punching her would have generated audience sympathy. I much prefer Maze bursting her delusional bubble by matter-of-factly pointing out all the things Jay did to incriminate himself and then walking off rather than wading through more bullshit to spare Ella's hurt fee fees.

[Ailianna]

On 2/5/2018 at 11:08 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

With all this brother-killing-brother talk, how did it not come up that Lucifer killed Uriel?  Sure, he had a good reason to do so, but if Pierce knew about it (which I suppose he might not) he could have brought it up to Amanediel.  Also, why didn't the topic of why Pierce killed his brother arise?  In the Bible, it's due to jealousy, since Abel's sacrifice was more pleasing to God (since it was more genuine) then Cain's was, so there's that parallel with God preferring one brother over another.  Lost opportunities, in my opinion.

 

On 2/6/2018 at 11:16 AM, MissL said:

Definitely some missed beats with Cain/Amenadiel/Lucifer.  If I remember my bible correctly, and I might not, it was a combo of killing a brother from jealousy and It was the FIRST murder? Right?  Some discussion about why he got that punishment when the world is full of killers now would be interesting. But I realize there are different interpretations of this story so... 

 

15 hours ago, johntfs said:

Actually, no, it wasn't.  Figure the whole is still kind of painful for Lucifer so he doesn't bring it up.  Remember as well that if he brings it up, especially to Pierce, he also has to go into the way that Uriel died.  As in, "Oh, yeah, I killed him with Azrael's blade.  That totally would have killed you, too.  And you wouldn't even have gone to Hell, either.  You'd have been completely destroyed and utterly at peace, everything you say that you want.  But I used the blade to send Mom to another dimension and tossed most of the blade in after her.  Sucks to be you, huh?"

I hope that these are things that are still coming.  It wouldn't really have helped Cain to bring up Lucifer's Uriel-killing with Amenadiel--he was trying to get Amenadiel to help him, not anger him, at least at first.  And then he was more focused on trying, later, to drive home Amenadiel's similarity to himself.  It was really a scene and a conversation that wasn't about Lucifer, so bringing him into it would have diluted the points Cain was trying to make.

I do really think this is very fertile ground though, and I still have faith the creative team will be able to do something awesome with what they've constructed.

[Ria]

15 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

come no mentions to Cain that if he does manage to die he will be going to actual hell, which would pretty much be him living out his worst nightmare over and over again, which would be to think he's still alive on Earth. 

Yeah he’s hung in this long, he’d be better off waiting another century or two until the predicted meta human computer hybrid turns up and humans can live thousands of years with computer parts. 

[speedy44]

3 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Punching her would have generated audience sympathy. I much prefer Maze bursting her delusional bubble by matter-of-factly pointing out all the things Jay did to incriminate himself and then walking off rather than wading through more bullshit to spare Ella's hurt fee fees.

Good point. I didn't think about that. I did believe that Pierce was justified in yelling at her a few eps ago, but she got sympathy for that. So yeah you are right. She annoys me to no end. She reminds me of a character from No Ordinary Family. Superhero show that had Michael Chiklis in it. Katie Andrews, character played by Autumn Reeser, was the same way. They tried to make her quirky and nerdy and always quoting comic book stuff. Always felt false to me and unnatural. Ella is so similar to her.

[theatremouse]

On 2/6/2018 at 7:21 AM, jhlipton said:

It wasn't a full "devil face" -- he may still not be able to do that, and wouldn't want to drive Ella-Bro inane -- but there was Hell in his eyes for a moment. 

When we saw the eye-glow I immediately wondered if that were a clue. I don't recall him doing even that since the whole "my face!" thing started. If he hasn't on camera at least, then it might mean the face is back and he doesn't realize because he hasn't tried to go full face in a while since he didn't expect it to work. And he may not have even known if his eyes did the thing just there. If Lucifer always does the same thing physically that initiates the eye thing, the only reason he knew it wasn't working was when he failed to get a reaction and then was practicing and whatnot. But I don't think he'd be able to feel a difference between "tried to do it and it worked" and "tried to do it and it didn't".

[Bruinsfan]

I'm pretty sure we've seen his eyes glow red at least one other time since the season premiere.

[jhlipton]

On 2/7/2018 at 8:18 AM, johntfs said:

Trixie is being trained by Maze in combat (and likely torture), while having Lucifer around to guide her ethics.  Trixie is going to be utterly terrifying by the time she reaches high school.  Father help the mean girls in her path, because no one else can.

But Trixie won't be a mean girl herself -- she's too kind.

[enoughcats]

About Trixie:  At her age, girls grow up fast.  This is something the showrunners need to appreciate because they haven't used her very much this season.  They may use her next season (hope there is a season 4) and we aren't going to recognize that cute

little girl we barely saw in Season 3.  I really hope they have at least one writer who has some experiences with real children he can incorporate into the young lady Trixie, because she can't stay in grade school forever.

[CheshireCat]

21 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I'm pretty sure we've seen his eyes glow red at least one other time since the season premiere.

Maybe you're thinking about the episode that dealt with Dr Linda's husband? That would have been before he "lost" his devil face though.

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, jhlipton said:

But Trixie won't be a mean girl herself -- she's too kind.

Trixie will be a mean girl, but only to other mean girls.

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

Trixie will be a mean girl, but only to other mean girls.

I don't think she'll be mean, per se.  She won't harm or demean them more than necessary to stop the bullying.,  And she'll go after the leader and let the followers think "What the heck were we thinking!"

[Athena5217]

9 hours ago, enoughcats said:

About Trixie:  At her age, girls grow up fast.  This is something the showrunners need to appreciate because they haven't used her very much this season.  They may use her next season (hope there is a season 4) and we aren't going to recognize that cute

little girl we barely saw in Season 3.  I really hope they have at least one writer who has some experiences with real children he can incorporate into the young lady Trixie, because she can't stay in grade school forever.

I hope she will never get too old for a sushi shirt!

[thuganomics85]

Late for this episode, but I enjoyed it.  I liked them shaking up some of the pairings with Ella/Maze, Linda/Charlotte, and Amenadiel/Cain.  They really do have an excellent ensemble, even if some are weaker then others (sorry, Tom Welling.)

I figured Ella's brother wasn't going to be the killer, but still be involved in something shady.  Also, I totally called the cop being it, because the whole introduction scene just felt so random.  For all this show's strengths, they're always been pretty blatant when it comes who ends up actually being the bad guy.  Still, can't complain too much since it had plenty of Maze!  I understand why she was used so little in the earlier episodes, but I'm glad that it is getting rectified now.

Well, I'm glad Amenadiel and Cain got all of that anger out of their systems, but I hope they pitch in for helping fix up Lux now.  I know Lucifer's rich, but he shouldn't have to pay the tab on that, even if he's the Devil!

I like the idea of Linda having to overcome what happened with her and Lucifer's mom, and learn to move forward with the new Charlotte.

Even got a Trixie appearance!  Yay, Trixie!