S02.E12: Clooney

[Cardie]

3 minutes ago, Kira53 said:

I just wanted Clooney to get a new home

He does have a new home. He was sitting in a window sill when a little boy brought him a bowl of food. I was fooled that Clooney looking desperate on the streets was not present-day Clooney but him in the past, finding William as he looks for a place to escape the boys on bicycles.

The character work in he episode was very good and the usual melodrama meter was set pretty low until the ominous shot of the smoke detector without its batteries. I guess the poor wiring and the lack of early warning all combined to kill Jack as he rushed to save his kids and dog.

[ForeverPluto]

It seems that the dream Jack had of starting that Big 3 company will somehow live on through Randall because I think he's going to want to name this building something in that vein. The problem I'm having with this is that I'm not sure if Randall has really thought this through. It seems like a good idea in theory but once you factor in the costs and the other factors that come with restoring this building, tenants, etc., it's going to get overwhelming. Given that Randall has had two breakdowns, if I were Beth, I would be really concerned about all of this. It just seems like Randall is about finding and taking on the next big challenge. Unfortunately, Beth and the kids are along for the ride so when it all blows to hell, they deal with the fallout as well. I like Randall but he's being pretty selfish here. 

[sigmaforce86]

Kathy Moriarty and Garrett Morris!   Thank you other posters - I didn't pay attention to the credits, didn't want to rewind right away, then deleted the DVR at the end instead of going back and the whole time thinking "I know those two - who are they".  And of course they're not listed on IMDB yet

It's good that Kevin isn't perfect, he should be shown as trying and still having those "Oh crap" moments where he says the wrong thing.  We've all said something we want to take back, sometimes it's even something true but still something that shouldn't be actually said.  So I like that as mean as it might be it's also realistic. That said I was yelling at the screen while they were in the store and again when they were in the living room "apologize you idiot!".  

Kate's best friend is..........interesting.  She's going to worm he way into bridesmaid (if not maid of honor) isn't she?  

Build up to Jack's death is sort of expected.  I don't mind the buildup, I think they timed it right; if they'd had shown the whole thing earlier it really would have kicked us in the feels.  If they wait until the end of season or next season we're going to be completely over the suspense.  I think they've done enough to build it up where most aren't going to go into complete shock over it while most still will be touched by it (at least I hope that's the point we've reached..

[methodwriter85]

7 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Ah! Ok, I definitely misunderstood that particular scene, which means I'll have to go back and watch again. Not that I mind, because I really liked the moment anyway. 

Kate found out she fit into the size 7...but then she wanted to fit in a 5 and couldn't. Because there's always this level of misery that Kate needs to have when it comes to her weight, even when she was thinner.

I thought that was incredibly well done and realistic and something only people who know what it's like to yo-yo in size would know.

[memememe76]

Kate did not say that Young Kate and Madison were the same size, but they could share the same clothes. Which they probably could. At least more easily than Madison and Present Day Kate. 

[voiceover]

Weird that the 2018 shows have me bored & irritated...until the last ten minutes or so.  Then I'm all in.

My favorite part of tonight?  That smile on TeenKevin's face, as Jack patted down his son's new suit front, and told him he looked good.  Such a sweet, sweet callback to Jack and LittleRandall, that first day at the Academy, with Jack showing him how to tie a Windsor knot.  Boys, formal wear, and their fathers.  Just pings something in me, every time.

As for the rest: Kate put on the size 5 so she could feel fat again.  Which was her comfort zone.  And there was certainly a redhead, waiting with Randall, the night of Jack's death.  And I said "Oh, shit!" out loud when I saw the smoke detector.

And because this show makes me overthink things, and because it was Garrett Morris in a *seemingly throwaway role*....I assumed it would turn out that he was a drag queen, and he & William...

Wow.   Overthinking.

[Dejana]

27 minutes ago, debraran said:

Kate made a reference that she lost a lot of weight, so are they going to show teen Kate thinner? I don't think she's fat now but she made it seem like she dieted like crazy and that didn't happen yet. I felt they were trying to make teen Kate look heavier than she was, maybe that was why?

Glad she is bonding with Madison, I know the dress will be beautiful.

My impression is that the Teen Kate we've seen is in an "After" phase and the shows' timelines haven't yet depicted the "Before" part of her high school years. 

 

Kevin ends up wearing that suit to Jack's funeral, doesn't he?

[Dreamboat Annie]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

But, he obviously did that diorama completely by himself.  No way Annie helped him with that.  Of course, it will blow away the completion. Actually, it probably wont', because from what I understand all parents do their kids' projects for them nowadays.  But, maybe Beth would actually like her kids to do their own projects.

 

Yup.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Dreamboat Annie

[Dreamboat Annie]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, Beth was a stay at home parent for years, so she wasn't complaining about Randall being the stay at home parent as not being in the real world, but more that it simply wasn't him. She knows that Randall is happiest when he has a task, or is involved in something. With Deja gone and them possibly not getting a foster kid for a while, she knew he should get back out there, to keep himself busy in a good way.  I think her intentions were good. 

Yup.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Dreamboat Annie

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

If I recall correctly, when Randall was busy at work, Beth called marriage.  When she's busy at work, he's rudely dismissed.  I think her intentions were self serving.

I also have to recall (which involves looking up a summary for that episode), but I do believe that they are two separate situations. For that episode, Beth had to call marriage because Randall was going to stay at work instead of going to Tess' tournament, but he was also putting too much pressure on himself with work and family, where Beth finally had to find a way to snap him out of it. I think it was also the episode where they were trying to deal with William's impending death, which is why he was so stressed out and why Beth had to call marriage. She did it for his health, because she had seen him literally go blind from stress and anxiety before. 

Here, Randall was coming to take her out for coffee while she was busy, which is fine, but then he stuck around to gossip and talk about his day, which he could have done later that evening. It wasn't really an important discussion that needed to be had at that moment. His reasons for being there were more self serving than her telling Randall that she was busy. 

I think in both cases, Randall's stress about William's death have had different reactions. In this case, Randall didn't take Beth's cue about her being busy and decided he would rant about his day. 

I mean, he also took that phone call during his job interview after because of his obsession with William's Lady Lover. I do think Beth is going to be supportive of Randall but he is not acting very well this season. I think, like Randall, her intentions are pure, but the way she goes about it appears more judgmental than others. I do think she's mostly in the right here, though. I think her concern is about how it's affecting their marriage. His decisions with adopting, and then fostering, and now not going to apply for jobs while also going to William's place is something that causes concern for her. They both need to be fulfilled, and I think she sees that neither of them are fulfilled at all. 

Maybe Beth needs to sit Randall down and tell him that fostering isn't going to fulfill his needs that he's desperately searching for. 

[Spencer Hastings]

Beth needs to have a few seats and take a deep breath.  I get that Randall is exhausting but she knows who she married. I feel like the character was more patient in the past while bringing him back down to earth, but she’s been very crass the past couple of episodes.  But I’m also still annoyed with her from last week.  There used to be a happy medium with her but Randall used to also have a job and not be out of his mind. 

I liked Kate and Madison.  Kate is much better when she’s not playing the victim.  Also, I don’t remember seeing Toby. That also helps tremendously.

Seeing Rebecca in that Steelers jersey and the repetitive “one day” flashing on the screen made me weepy. More like “one episode before you are crushed into a million pieces over some overly glorified tv character with a porn stache.”

Edited January 17, 2018 by Spencer Hastings

[Aileen]

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

This is one of few times I wanted to see the aftershow, so I'm glad to hear it's good.

 

LOL, he really is talented.  Definitely would have gotten more than a smile.  But I expected more from that plot.  I wonder if we'll see Allison (the red-haired girl) again.

We do...she's with the family the night Jack dies.

[Dreamboat Annie]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

She did it for his health, because she had seen him literally go blind from stress and anxiety before. 

Yup.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Dreamboat Annie

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, Dejana said:

Kevin ends up wearing that suit to Jack's funeral, doesn't he?

That was my thought too. Heartbreaking.

[Drumpf1737]

1 hour ago, voiceover said:

And because this show makes me overthink things, and because it was Garrett Morris in a *seemingly throwaway role*....I assumed it would turn out that he was a drag queen, and he & William...

I love the way you overthink!

My eyes got watery as soon as I saw Clooney. I'm a sucker for stray cats. A black kitten showed up on my doorstep in college; I've been a big sap ever since. 

Kate and Madison were so lovely together I really hope they become best friends.

Kevin behaving like a pouting teen doesn't make him endearing. I hope that wasn't what they were going for.

Oh, Randall. Please join the rest of us on Earth. It's a little effed up now but that's why dreamers like you need to give the rest of us at least 50% of your attention. Randall's dreaminess was annoying but I'm so excited at the result.

I like work mode Beth.

Quote

the viewers continue to find Beth selfish/bitchy and I still don't see it at all. Beth is amazing. Hop on board. There doesn't need to be a villain, and it damn-well doesn't need to be the only black woman. You want a villain? How about literally any other character? Anytime Beth isn't giggling and getting dressed by birds in the morning, half the audience finds her unlikable. Whatever. I strongly disagree. 

2

I'll hop on board. She is amazing. I can't wait to get more of her backstory.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Drumpf1737

[Guest]

Last week, I was really annoyed with Beth but this week I think she is a saint for putting up with Randall. “It’s important to me you get a job” and he blows off the interview. Then he’s buying a building. Calm down, Randall.

Still don’t care about William or his cat.

I liked all the rest of it- Kevin and Rebecca, Kevin and Miguel, Kate and Madison.

[Cara]

3 hours ago, notcreative enough said:

 

All this talk about Jack wanted to start a construction company and 3 kids going to college makes me wonder how career housewife/mother handles needing to become the bread winner with her minimal skill set. That's a story line I'm interested in seeing.

Life insurance?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Dejana said:

My impression is that the Teen Kate we've seen is in an "After" phase and the shows' timelines haven't yet depicted the "Before" part of her high school years. 

 

Kevin ends up wearing that suit to Jack's funeral, doesn't he?

I thought she was fine, but I wondered if after the dress episode, she tried to lose more weight? I thought size 7 was fine, think that was mine back then, but then seeing her size 5 disappointment, it clicked later, she just couldn't  be happy. Sad, but happens a lot with young women.

I liked seeing Kevin and Miguel, I knew he liked him once, so many feelings left closed up after Jack's death.  I like how he told them about Jack's sacrifice and you never know all of what your parents might have done for you. I wonder if the new business might have something to do with his death also.

Randall, to me, is having residual effects from his bio dad's death and along with his anxiety needs help working it through. I don't know if it's because Beth is a strong black woman who isn't a patsy and "yes" person like Rebecca, but she does get a lot of flak. Living with someone like Randall has it's ups and downs but seeing him through 2 breakdowns, seeing him go blind, seeing him suffer in learning about his dad and years lost, rushing into foster care,  I'm sure she's scared of what might happen if he's just home. These symptoms and feelings should be worked out with a therapist if possible. The new building he wants to buy, again sounds good, but the building she lost was going to be paid for by someone else, he's impulsive and just has to take a breath and think before he acts. I'm sure if she voices opposition to it for some reason, maybe he wants to mortgage it themselves and not get help, she'll be the "bad" wife again. ; ) 

Edited January 17, 2018 by debraran

[kissedbyarose]

7 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

How has no one mentioned that teen Randall handcrafted a Magic 8 Ball for his crush?! How did anyone ever claim he had no game?! He had MAD game!

Right? I’m grown and I would say yes to a man who asked me out like that and 17 year old me... well :)

7 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Inasmuch as Randall has bugged me this season, tonight looked to me like Kevin isn't the only Pearson brother Beth is unsupportive of.  I found her "I need you in the real world" knock such an insult.  He's been the stay at home parent and from much experience in that field, I can say with confidence that there's not a whole lot more "real world" than that.  It's not like he hasn't been there for her and their daughters.  I didn't find Randall's search for "Lady" compelling at all - actually that bored me.  But Randall has been supportive of Beth and he just needed a little more time and she should have trusted that.  So Beth, if Randall won't say it, I will say it on his behalf - I call marriage.

I liked Miguel being protective of Rebecca but I also understood Kevin's need to spend some time with her alone.  Miguel should respect that. 

My new favorite relationship of the whole show?  Kate and Madison :).

Not a fan of Randall’s entire storyline this season (a building really?) but I can’t see why Beth was so eager for Randall to be working he’s had a pretty stressful year and I can’t see how returning him to that environment would be helpful. Now if she was pushing him to try therapy? Then I would definitely be on board with that. 

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I think the Kate and Madison friendship has a lot of great potential because I think it would be a great way to finally get to know Kate. I've always felt like I dont really know Kate the way I've gotten to know Randall and Kevin, or even Rebecca and Jack. What do we know about Kate? She worries about her weight a lot, was super close with her dad, resents her mom, and likes to sing. I think her having someone in her life outside of the family could allow her to open up more, and get to know her beyond the superficial. 

I agree. These past two episodes were Kate’s best and the most I’ve liked her since the show started. 

[Trillium]

Feels like Cialis missed a golden opportunity for product placement in the beginning with Miguel and Rebecca’s matching Centrum Silver, rain boots, and cereal bowls. 

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, deaja said:

Still don’t care about William or his cat.

 I care about the cat.  I loved seeing him with the lonely looking little boy after Garrett Morris had said, "Strays have a way of ending up with the person who needs them."

I've always defended Miguel and I like him even more these days.  It takes a real good guy to put up with his wife's rude kids just for her sake.

I'm starting to feel extremely guilty because I've lost both my parents and yet I didn't quit my job, spend the rest of my life mooning over their stuff, watching TV with their ashes, wearing their jewelry day and night, and going completely off the rails.  The only one I can see having any reason for that sort of grief/guilt might be Kate if she begged her dad to go back in for her dog.

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm starting to feel extremely guilty because I've lost both my parents and yet I didn't quit my job, spend the rest of my life mooning over their stuff, watching TV with their ashes, wearing their jewelry day and night, and going completely off the rails.  The only one I can see having any reason for that sort of grief/guilt might be Kate if she begged her dad to go back in for her dog.

I don't think it's that weird, if you have a piece f their jewelry, to wear it all the time.  Yeah, watching football games with their ashes, is a tad bit on the odd side.  

[Paloma]

8 hours ago, Cardie said:

He does have a new home. He was sitting in a window sill when a little boy brought him a bowl of food. I was fooled that Clooney looking desperate on the streets was not present-day Clooney but him in the past, finding William as he looks for a place to escape the boys on bicycles.

Thanks for clarifying--with all the scenes of the cat running to escape cars, dogs, and kids, I was so worried about his fate that it distracted me from some of the human drama. I did see the scene when he was the window sill being fed, but for some reason I thought this was just a temporary respite for him, not a permanent home.

Maybe someone has addressed this already, but how are Randall and Beth supposed to afford buying (and presumably renovating) a building when he does not have a job? I know they have a nice house and probably have decent savings, but Beth did not have a fancy office so I doubt that her salary is sufficient for supporting them and taking on this project. The seeming lack of realism took me out of the moment, though I guess it was meant to be a callback to Jack's foolish decision to restart his Big 3 business just as his kids are going to college.

[MyAimIsTrue]

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

But, he obviously did that diorama completely by himself.  No way Annie helped him with that.  Of course, it will blow away the completion. Actually, it probably wont', because from what I understand all parents do their kids' projects for them nowadays.  But, maybe Beth would actually like her kids to do their own projects.  

When I was in first grade (this was 1971 so a long time ago) my father did my class project all by himself so that scene rang true for me.  I couldn't have stopped him if I tried because he was an artist, still is actually, and I'm not.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

When I was in first grade (this was 1971 so a long time ago) my father did my class project all by himself so that scene rang true for me.  I couldn't have stopped him if I tried because he was an artist, still is actually, and I'm not.

When I was a kid, we called that cheating:)  Seriously, I don't really understand the point of assigning these projects when teachers know that the parents are just going to do them.  And then giving out A's when it is apparent that the kid had nothing to do with them.  

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Randall, to me, is having residual effects from his bio dad's death and along with his anxiety needs help working it through. I don't know if it's because Beth is a strong black woman who isn't a patsy and "yes" person like Rebecca, but she does get a lot of flak. Living with someone like Randall has it's ups and downs but seeing him through 2 breakdowns, seeing him go blind, seeing him suffer in learning about his dad and years lost, rushing into foster care,  I'm sure she's scared of what might happen if he's just home. These symptoms and feelings should be worked out with a therapist if possible. The new building he wants to buy, again sounds good, but the building she lost was going to be paid for by someone else, he's impulsive and just has to take a breath and think before he acts. I'm sure if she voices opposition to it for some reason, maybe he wants to mortgage it themselves and not get help, she'll be the "bad" wife again. ; ) 

I agree, he is still mired in grief about William and I think Beth totally gets that.  I didn't really care for the way she talked to him like he was a child at her office, but you know what, he actually heard.  Then when he insisted she come look at William's place, she went.  It's what I like about their relationship - they get each other, and they work with what they have.  They're actually great together. 

As for the building, and how realistic it is, first of all Randall may have a good amount of money from being a Wall Street-er for years.  I think this is a promising story line, there's a purpose for Randall directly connected to his both of his fathers (well indirectly as far as Jack and renovation), Beth has expertise in governmental involvement, and Miguel can give advice from his years of experience.  For a long time I've thought the family should get into construction because I personally am bored to tears by show biz stories, and Jack's dream would therefore not have died with him. 

[sigmaforce86]

10 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I have a feeling this is going to be a love it or hate it episode, but I kind of loved it, cat and all. 

I wonder if seeds are being planted for Jack's kids to resurrect the Big 3 Homes idea -- Randall has already decided to buy a building, Kevin needs new structure, Beth is an urban planner, hmm.  Just guessing that they didn't bring it in for no reason. 

That would be an interesting way to go - the only thing that could be a problem is Kevin and Beth spending a lot of time together in a working relationship, not sure that's good for his sobriety or her sanity!  But it would be an interesting turn

8 hours ago, Dejana said:

Kevin ends up wearing that suit to Jack's funeral, doesn't he?

Oh crap, this is the kind of thing that'll get me.  I said in my first post I thought viewers were at the right spot to see the death, a little used to it from the build up but not dragged on so long that we're tired of the build up.  But this is what they're going to do, they're going to throw in little details like that's the suit he wears and it's the suit he bought just with his Dad just days before the death and ...wham!...out come the tissues again.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think this was a good lesson in showing that being nice can bring more nice people into your life. I totally get why it's been annoying for Kate to have skinny size 0 Madison in her group complaining about her fat wrists, BUT once she quit bitching at her, Madison showed herself to be a kind, generous, and compassionate friend who was genuinely happy about Kate's pregnancy and even paid for Kate to have a private appointment to get a custom wedding dress. Having another person join your support system is a wonderful thing.

Awwww, I bet that's the first real conversation that Kevin and Miguel have ever had. I think it's a sign that Kevin's therapy has helped him make progress. Not only did he apologize for being a brat at the grocery store, but he then asked Miguel a very difficult and direct question that I'm sure Kevin has been wondering about for years.

I definitely appreciated Beth telling Randall to knock it off when he came into her office at work. One of my pet peeves is when people just barge into other people's places of work, plop themselves down, and expect to get attention about their personal problems.

Her followup to that, telling him that he needed to get a job, not for the money but for the routine and to give him something to do, could have been worded a little more nicely, but it was still something that needed to be said. He HAS been off in outer space and she wants him back down on earth. I also thought that the implication that having a job and a routine would bring him back to the real world was a nice parallel to Kevin getting out of rehab and needing to establish a routine.

Heh, I wanted to tell Allison not to shake that Magic 8 Ball. You're supposed to turn it over gently, not shake it! But man, Randall somehow made one with her name on the die - that is freaking awesome!

One thing I loved was Kevin finding out about Jack giving up his idea to start his own company to support his family. So often kids think that their parents just appeared full sprung and exist only to take them on vacation and buy them stuff. Kids assume that their parents are done. They don't realize that their parents are still living breathing humans with dreams and aspirations beyond doing your laundry and making your lunch.

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

First impression until I rewatch, I couldn't care less about Randall's subplot about his woes with William and his search for his lover. What he was doing was really not cute, and I rooted for Beth when she shut him down. At least this episode finally spelled it out that all of Randall's issues this season are directly related to William. Not that it was impossible to figure out before, but they basically had it out on the table, without the fostering facade. But maybe that's why I'm sick and tired of Randall and his pompous attitude this season, and maybe why I'm tired of his "cute" gimmicks. I just couldn't care less about William as a character. 

Maybe next season, once Randall moves past his William grief, I'll like him as a character again. He has his moments, but he's mostly put me off this season. 

Also, Randall wants to buy a building in a completely different state? Are they going to end up moving, then? Damn, if that's the case, poor Tess and Annie. 

I liked Kevin recognizing his own flaws, especially with Miguel, and getting to apologize. They had a really nice moment, even if it turned into JackandRebecca being one or whatever. It was nice to see Kevin know how he was treating Miguel and apologize. I saw both sides very well. Kevin wanted to start mending his relationship with his mother but he couldn't do that with Miguel around. But at the same time, Miguel didn't want Rebecca to get hurt by Kevin as she already had been recently, so he wanted to keep an eye on them. I thought they had a good balance between the two, recognizing that Kevin had a lot to make up for. 

Also, past Kevin and Miguel seemed to get along very well, and had a lot in common. That was nice to see. It was also nice to see Kevin and Jack bond about stuff. The boys learning about Big Three Homes was nice, and it gave Jack/Kevin a nice moment. I guess those small, rare moments, are the ones that Kevin wished he got more of. 

I actually loved Kate's plot the most, both past and present. Maybe because I'm a fan for Kate having actual friends, but her friendship with Madison is very well developed. I like that Kate got over her judgmental attitude once she actually saw what was going on with Madison first hand. Yeah, Madison still shouldn't be in that particular support group, but I still like her as a character and loved when Kate went to her. Also, no Toby! Plus, it gave Kate some actual growth that she's kind of been missing this season. We also have some insight into what happens to Kate before Jack's death. 

As for the past Kate stuff, I thought it was also very well done, especially with the Rebecca/Kate bonding moments. Rebecca was genuinely excited to help Kate find a dress, but Kate was feeling embarrassed that she couldn't find a dress in her size and didn't want to admit it to her mom. And again, we got insight from present Kate about past Kate, which was great to hear. I'm hoping next season has more to do with Kate, because this was the best Kate episode they've given Chrissy. 

 

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Kate came in with the goal to fit into a size 7 (she had the number 7 written on her wrist), and she actually did, and the dress looked great on her! But the happiness over that gave way immediately to wanting to fit into a smaller size, and when that didn't happen, her joy over the whole dress shopping experience was completely ruined.

 

8 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Kate found out she fit into the size 7...but then she wanted to fit in a 5 and couldn't. Because there's always this level of misery that Kate needs to have when it comes to her weight, even when she was thinner.

I thought that was incredibly well done and realistic and something only people who know what it's like to yo-yo in size would know.

Kate's goal was a size 7 and she was happy when the 7 fit. But then she realized that she wasn't happy feeling happy. She was more comfortable being unhappy so she put on the 5, knowing that it wouldn't fit, to make herself unhappy again on purpose.

Her voiceover during the flashback scene where she tries on the 7 and then the 5:

"I was so, just so sure that being skinny would make me happy. My whole life, I had that voice in my head just screaming, just shouting at me, 'Lose the weight. Try harder. You're fat and you're pathetic.' And so I did it. I lost the weight. But listening to that voice my whole life, I didn't know who I was without it. And then I just, I felt empty. I was more comfortable being fat because I actually liked being mad at myself all the time. I liked the voice."

24 minutes ago, Katy M said:

When I was a kid, we called that cheating:)  Seriously, I don't really understand the point of assigning these projects when teachers know that the parents are just going to do them.  And then giving out A's when it is apparent that the kid had nothing to do with them.  

There was a sitcom episode about ten years ago where the kids at an elementary school were assigned a project and it was no secret that all the parents were actually doing the projects. The main character said he refused to do it and told his kid that he had to do the project on his own. All of the students had to reveal their projects to the class on back to school night in front of their classmates, the parents, and the teacher. Everyone else's projects were (predictably) professional looking because the parents had made them. When it was time for his kid to show his project, the dad made this big speech about how he wanted his kid to learn how to be independent and responsible and earn his own grade and that's why he made the kid do this project all on his own without any help, supervision, or input from the parents. Some of the other parents started to look a little sheepish. The kid revealed his project and it had pictures from Playboy glued all over it. Apparently the dad told him to use whatever magazines were in the living room and the kid found this one hidden under the coffee table or behind a book on the bookcase.

I'm okay with parents helping a little bit with planning or construction, but the kid needs to do the bulk of the work. Mr. EB and I like to refer to our imaginary nonexistent kids, as in "My imaginary nonexistent kids would hate me because there's no way I would be making their stupid diorama the night before it's due!"

[Jillybean]

Oh, man. When this episode opened and we were shown the dog and Kevin's cast right away, I told Mr. Jillybean "now all we need is Randall's redhead." And there she was.

Can unemployed Kate possibly afford what's sure to be a 5-figure custom wedding dress? Kevin must have been paying her VERY well.

[Haleth]

Was the mark on teen Kate's arm a 7?  At first I thought she was cutting herself, but when they later showed her angry about not fitting into a 5 I got it that the 7 on her arm was a goal.  One that ultimately didn't make her happy.

So Kate ran out of the store, distracting her mom from buying batteries.  Is that why Kate feels guilty?  Or is there more to come?  (Jack going back into the fire for something?  The dog?)

I like Madison too but feel she's being shoehorned into the story.  Nice to see growth in Kate's character though.

10 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

I thought for certain [Clooney] would some how end up with Randall.  

Any other show he would.  I like it more that he went on to bond with a new family.

Randall's search was kind of tedious, but the reveal was good.  Who cannot love Billie Holiday?  (Cool that one of her records was playing at the Pearsons' in the last scene.)  I love Randall but Beth was right-- he needs to come back to earth.  It seems to me that renovating an apartment building would be more of a headache than a project, but hopefully it will get him focused again.  As Cher would say, snap out of it!

9 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Inasmuch as Randall has bugged me this season, tonight looked to me like Kevin isn't the only Pearson brother Beth is unsupportive of.  I found her "I need you in the real world" knock such an insult.  He's been the stay at home parent and from much experience in that field, I can say with confidence that there's not a whole lot more "real world" than that.  It's not like he hasn't been there for her and their daughters. 

No, he needed a kick in the butt to get him to start adulting.  No more boondoggles.  Yes, being a SAH dad is lovely, but Beth knows that baking brownies is not enough to satisfy him.

I liked the reveal that instead of Miguel being obtuse by tagging along, he was actually doing it for a reason-- to be there if his wife needed him.  

[ShadowFacts]

6 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I liked the reveal that instead of Miguel being obtuse by tagging along, he was actually doing it for a reason-- to be there if his wife needed him. 

Yes, and that he knew Kevin wouldn't like it and he didn't care. 

I do have to wonder if going grocery shopping with Mom on Mondays is enough structure as was prescribed by Kevin's therapist.  Of course it's not, so he needs to get volunteering, or, if I am writing the show, going to work on Randall's building.  People seem to want more of the Pearson siblings interacting and that would do it. 

[Paloma]

9 hours ago, Amethyst said:

I was glad that the wedding dress scenes turned out well.  It helps for Kate to be the wiser voice and help someone.

I also liked Kate being a wise voice and helping someone, but I really had a hard time accepting the whole "wedding dress shopping helps Madison and Kate become best friends" plot. Speaking from personal experience as someone who has had a lifelong poor self-image (even when I was not overweight) and who has been between 25 and 40 pounds overweight most of my adult life, I would not want to shop for a special occasion dress at all, but if I had to do it I would rather go by myself than with a thin person (even if that person is a good friend). I remember a few years ago that I needed to get a dress for an important event and had no luck in my first shopping trip. My husband then suggested I ask one or both of my relatives (who are also good friends) to go with me, because they always dress nicely (in contrast to my schlumpy style, though he didn't say that) and have a good eye for what looks good. I couldn't do it, in large part because they were both slim and I would be embarrassed by how I looked in anything I tried on. If I were 100 pounds or more overweight, I can't imagine allowing myself being talked into going full-out traditional bridal gown--custom made or not, my body could not be concealed or flattered enough to make me forget about how I look. I don't say this as a disparagement of the actress or any other person who is 100+ pounds overweight, and I know that there are some who refuse to be ashamed by society's standards and are proud of their bodies (and good for them). But we have repeatedly been shown in this series, and especially in this episode, how Kate's lifelong weight struggles and poor self-image have affected her, so it simply is not believable to me that all of a sudden she would let herself be convinced by Madison--who at that point was far from a close friend--to go through a shopping experience that would likely turn out worse than her memory of the prom gown experience.

Also, I think this Madison-Kate friendship is being forced by the writers. Kate has been shown to be disdainful of Madison, and Madison's dialogue makes her seem pretty superficial. Granted, she is hiding a deeper pain, and I can buy that Kate recognizes what Madison is hiding and wants to help, but that is not a good basis for a mutually rewarding friendship.  

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Haleth said:

So Kate ran out of the store, distracting her mom from buying batteries.  Is that why Kate feels guilty?

I wondered this too. If that ends up being the basis of 20 years of guilt for Kate, I think I may throw something at the tv.

[TwoGrayTabbies]

TIU episode synopsis:  Randall learns more about William’s past.

Me:  Maybe they’re going to reveal more about Randall’s mother’s death so I’m not stuck with the inference that William ditched her dead body in some drug house.    Maybe William’s feet of clay will be revealed!

Actual revelation:  William was the guardian angel of his apartment building and he was a Billie Holiday fan.

Me:  I got up early to watch this?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

35 minutes ago, Paloma said:

I also liked Kate being a wise voice and helping someone, but I really had a hard time accepting the whole "wedding dress shopping helps Madison and Kate become best friends" plot. Speaking from personal experience as someone who has had a lifelong poor self-image (even when I was not overweight) and who has been between 25 and 40 pounds overweight most of my adult life, I would not want to shop for a special occasion dress at all, but if I had to do it I would rather go by myself than with a thin person (even if that person is a good friend). I remember a few years ago that I needed to get a dress for an important event and had no luck in my first shopping trip. My husband then suggested I ask one or both of my relatives (who are also good friends) to go with me, because they always dress nicely (in contrast to my schlumpy style, though he didn't say that) and have a good eye for what looks good. I couldn't do it, in large part because they were both slim and I would be embarrassed by how I looked in anything I tried on. If I were 100 pounds or more overweight, I can't imagine allowing myself being talked into going full-out traditional bridal gown--custom made or not, my body could not be concealed or flattered enough to make me forget about how I look. I don't say this as a disparagement of the actress or any other person who is 100+ pounds overweight, and I know that there are some who refuse to be ashamed by society's standards and are proud of their bodies (and good for them). But we have repeatedly been shown in this series, and especially in this episode, how Kate's lifelong weight struggles and poor self-image have affected her, so it simply is not believable to me that all of a sudden she would let herself be convinced by Madison--who at that point was far from a close friend--to go through a shopping experience that would likely turn out worse than her memory of the prom gown experience.

Madison specifically told Kate that she wouldn't have to try on any dresses. All they were doing was looking at different dresses to see what Kate liked. The girl at the shop showed her one with an empire waist, talked about fabric, and asked if she liked lace. No trying anything on, as Madison promised.

Madison: I am taking you wedding dress shopping.
Kate: Oh, that's a hard no.
Madison: Kate, come on. I know the perfect place. They do custom dresses. You don't have to try anything on. You just have to sip champagne and talk about silhouettes, and you'll be treated like a princess. 
Kate: I don't have to try anything on? 
Madison: Nothing. I promise I can make this a nice thing for you. The moment you're at all uncomfortable, we leave. No hesitation, no questions. Let me help you clear this hurdle.

[mochamajesty]

Die, William. Die. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Jillybean said:

Oh, man. When this episode opened and we were shown the dog and Kevin's cast right away, I told Mr. Jillybean "now all we need is Randall's redhead." And there she was.

Can unemployed Kate possibly afford what's sure to be a 5-figure custom wedding dress? Kevin must have been paying her VERY well.

I think Toby probably makes good money.  He seemed to have an office while everyone else just had desks, which means he's probably in a managerial role at whatever it is he does.

 

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

So Kate ran out of the store, distracting her mom from buying batteries.  Is that why Kate feels guilty?

Unless Rebecca told her after the fact that they meant to buy batteries that day, but she forgot because she was looking for her, I can't see the average person making that connection. And I can't see Rebecca telling her that.   know there have been a lot of criticism about bad parenting, but I haven't seen anything that says she is maliciously cruel.  I don't even know that Rebecca thinks that Kate distracting her is the reason they didn't buy batteries.  Maybe Jack was supposed to pick them up.  And unless he dies the next day (and I think we've got at least a week or two since the redhead is comforting Randall), they had other opportunities to pick up batteries.  Batteries do not require a special trip to the mall.  I'm sure Jack passes a hardware store on the way home.

[PRgal]

Kevin's loss of the ability to play football was resonated with me A LOT.  While I wasn't exactly a child prodigy, I was considered very good, according to my very strict, very old school Eastern European piano teacher - probably good enough to get into a top music program anywhere in the world.  That came to a crashing halt when my dad was transferred to Bermuda in the early 90s.  I was 12-ish.  The piano teacher in Bermuda was awful and my skills deteriorated.  While we were only there for a year, I had lost so much (partly the sh!tty teacher and partly due to the stress of a new school, culture, etc...) that the Eastern European piano teacher I had refused to take me back after a few lessons with her that following summer :(.  And that was when I lost interest.  Though I picked up singing, I was never THAT GOOD.  I was not loud enough.  My voice wasn't strong enough.  And yeah, for a long time, I felt like I wasn't "good enough" even though I probably was relatively decent.  :(

Kate and the fitting room:  Me.  I was never a big girl/overweight, but because I'm petite (in height), I spent most of my teen years feeling I didn't "look good" in a lot of styles because I looked like a little girl playing dress up.  This was in the mid-to-late 90s, so it was before cropped pants were a "thing."  And unlike weight, you can't really change height.  I still have height issues to this very day. 

Re the After Show:  The mall in the 80s/90s = Facebook or Instagram today (I guess more Instagram).  You went to be seen.  Ha!  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, PRgal said:

Kevin's loss of the ability to play football was resonated with me A LOT. 

Same - thinking that in such a short time he loses his ability to play football and his dad, it wouldn't surprise me if he gets addicted to painkillers then like they've hinted.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I liked Kevin recognizing his own flaws, especially with Miguel, and getting to apologize. They had a really nice moment, even if it turned into JackandRebecca being one or whatever. It was nice to see Kevin know how he was treating Miguel and apologize. I saw both sides very well. Kevin wanted to start mending his relationship with his mother but he couldn't do that with Miguel around. But at the same time, Miguel didn't want Rebecca to get hurt by Kevin as she already had been recently, so he wanted to keep an eye on them. I thought they had a good balance between the two, recognizing that Kevin had a lot to make up for. 

I was impressed that Kevin, after reacting badly (understandably from his point of view) that Miguel was going, asked Miguel a direct question stating his issue with him tagging along. I also liked Miguel's answer. Then after Kevin's "my dad was her husband", Kevin apologizing and getting to the bottom of his issue with Miguel. It showed some growth. 

I have to say, though, I didn't much care for Rebecca's reply when Kevin asked her if she was happy. If she'd led with yes, it wouldn't have bugged me as much. But then, I like Miguel.

11 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

Wasn't that the cat's name?  I thought for certain he would some how end up with Randall.  

I did too - I thought "here we go, Randall's going to do another impulsive thing without discussing it with Beth." I'm glad I was wrong (didn't remember about the allergies)

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

Mine, too. And it always realizes it's out of batteries at 2 in the morning.  Without fail.  2 in th morning.  Yes,  know I could avoid this by actually changing the batteries proactively like you're supposed to.  But, where's the fun in that?

Lithium batteries. I'm just saying. They last for years and years. Haven't had a 2 am wake up in a long time.

 

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Beth needs a personal day, because she seems so annoyed all of the time lately. Probably doesn't help that Randall is on another one of his kicks again, and wants to do some big huge thing, without really talking it over with her first. Well, he "talked" about it, in a way that said "I must now do this or my life is garbage". I guess when he didn't get to keep his foster kid project, he decided he wanted a whole building of projects! I know Randall means well, but...just get a cat, dude. 

I'd be annoyed a lot if Randall was my husband too, especially these last few (year? how much time has gone by since the show began?)

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Turtles are nice too. Maybe rescue one from a polluted pond or something :) 

Someone's been watching Travelers. ;)

 

11 hours ago, chocolatine said:

The "did we forget something at the mall?" and the shot to the battery-less smoke detector was too on the nose. We already know that there's going to be a fire and that Jack's death will be connected to it. They need to stop dropping anvils and just move that storyline forward.

See, I thought they'd left Randall at the mall, and that it was showing that even Randall sometimes got ignored. Especially since the trip was to get Jack a suit and Kate a dress.

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I have to say, I really like that the show didn't fast forward Kevin admitting that he lost Jack's dog tags. I was so afraid the family would have already known and we would have missed that moment. I'm really glad they didn't, because it led to the really nice juxtaposition of Rebecca unable to take off Jack's necklace he gave her with Kevin losing Jack's dog tags he gave him. 

My recollection was that it wasn't the dog tags, but a different necklace. I could be wrong though.

10 hours ago, debraran said:

Kate made a reference that she lost a lot of weight, so are they going to show teen Kate thinner? I don't think she's fat now but she made it seem like she dieted like crazy and that didn't happen yet. I felt they were trying to make teen Kate look heavier than she was, maybe that was why?

I think she was the thinner size at size 7. 

 

10 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Kate found out she fit into the size 7...but then she wanted to fit in a 5 and couldn't. Because there's always this level of misery that Kate needs to have when it comes to her weight, even when she was thinner.

I thought that was incredibly well done and realistic and something only people who know what it's like to yo-yo in size would know.

It didn't work for me, though I understand the underlying message. I've struggled and yo-yo'd for years. There was never a time when I wasn't thrilled to get into a smaller size. However, that being said, there was also never a time when I didn't feel fat, regardless of my actual weight. It was mostly the immediate rejection of the accomplishment that didn't work for me. 

[Jillybean]

10 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think Toby probably makes good money.  He seemed to have an office while everyone else just had desks, which means he's probably in a managerial role at whatever it is he does.

Perhaps...but it's hard to fathom that he does well enough to support both of them living in LA (even in their small apartment), frequently flying cross-country at a moment's notice, and paying for a big wedding with a custom dress made by an LA designer. I suppose we, the viewers, are supposed to handwave all of this and not worry about how the characters support themselves. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think Toby probably makes good money.  He seemed to have an office while everyone else just had desks, which means he's probably in a managerial role at whatever it is he does.

 

Unless Rebecca told her after the fact that they meant to buy batteries that day, but she forgot because she was looking for her, I can't see the average person making that connection. And I can't see Rebecca telling her that.   know there have been a lot of criticism about bad parenting, but I haven't seen anything that says she is maliciously cruel.  I don't even know that Rebecca thinks that Kate distracting her is the reason they didn't buy batteries.  Maybe Jack was supposed to pick them up.  And unless he dies the next day (and I think we've got at least a week or two since the redhead is comforting Randall), they had other opportunities to pick up batteries.  Batteries do not require a special trip to the mall.  I'm sure Jack passes a hardware store on the way home.

Not to mention the grocery store.  And Jack works in construction and did a major reno (or finishing job) on that house.  Why didn't he hard-wire the smoke alarms then?  I think that's been pretty standard for a while.  Looking it up, that became the requirement in 1989.  

Kate's actually been wearing custom-made duds all along, which we're supposed to either hand-wave or believe she picked up at the mall.  

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Why didn't he hard-wire the smoke alarms then?  I think that's been pretty standard for a while.  Looking it up, that became the requirement in 1989.  

Hardwired smoke detectors cause the detector to beep once the battery is low until you replace it.  So, they probably disconnected it until they got new batteries. That's what I do when mine goes off in the middle of the night.  Of course, I run out the next day and get a battery.  I don't leave it disconnected for months, weeks, or even days.  Just the few hours of night and the time while I'm at work and not home to hear it if it goes off anyway.

[Trillium]

11 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Perhaps...but it's hard to fathom that he does well enough to support both of them living in LA (even in their small apartment), frequently flying cross-country at a moment's notice, and paying for a big wedding with a custom dress made by an LA designer. I suppose we, the viewers, are supposed to handwave all of this and not worry about how the characters support themselves. 

Phoebe on Friends apparently made enough as a part time masseuse that she could afford a Manhattan apartment all by herself. The others at least came from  money or just borrowed from Chandler. On TV characters always have enough to do whatever the plot dictates. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

25 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Not to mention the grocery store.  And Jack works in construction and did a major reno (or finishing job) on that house.  Why didn't he hard-wire the smoke alarms then?  I think that's been pretty standard for a while.  Looking it up, that became the requirement in 1989.  

Kate's actually been wearing custom-made duds all along, which we're supposed to either hand-wave or believe she picked up at the mall.  

Or, hell, 7/11. Or a gas station. Batteries are one of those things that you can buy at just about any kind of store.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Hardwired smoke detectors cause the detector to beep once the battery is low until you replace it.  So, they probably disconnected it until they got new batteries. That's what I do when mine goes off in the middle of the night.  Of course, I run out the next day and get a battery.  I don't leave it disconnected for months, weeks, or even days.  Just the few hours of night and the time while I'm at work and not home to hear it if it goes off anyway.

Oh!  That's why mine beep!  Heh.  I always have batteries on hand, being a Costco shopper.  

[nilyank]

i think what I liked when Miguel ran into Jack and Kevin at the mall and he was sad about his ex-wife moving on, Jack tried his usual pep talk to cheer up his best friend and Kevin rightfully points out that sometimes you have to sit with the sad feelings. In this case, Miguel feeling that he is losing his kids as his ex-wife starts a new relationship. 

Which makes it even more poignant because we have not seen any current day relationship with his kids and their families while his wife's children firmly keep him outside the circle because he is not Jack. And also sad because before Jack's death, he seemed to have better relationship with the kids as Jack's friend than now as Rebecca's husband.

[Driad]

Randall looking for “the Lady”:  Maybe he wondered if William had had a relationship with a woman and fathered another child. If he had, maybe William didn’t know or didn’t want to tell Randall. Would a theoretical half sibling be a juvenile who needs a home?

Kate looking at wedding dresses:  How would she know which styles looked best without trying anything on? 

Kevin, Rebecca, and Miguel:  I hope they can build a good relationship. But something will go wrong for the sake of drama. I wondered if Rebecca was about to offer Kevin her necklace.

[ShadowFacts]

17 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Oh!  That's why mine beep!  Heh.  I always have batteries on hand, being a Costco shopper.  

Costco, yeah.  I think Annie is a little bit prematurely consumerist if she prefers Costco to a park.  Costco is for stocking homes and small businesses, mostly.  Unless she is mad about hot dogs or frozen yogurt on the way out, it's not so much a kid-oriented place.