S02.E12: Clooney

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, Paloma said:

Yes, that is what I was trying to get at when I said the friendship seemed forced.

It's definitely been one sided and it's probably forced because the support has all been from Madison. I've been asking myself why she keeps being nice to Kate when Kate keeps trashing her during support group. It's why I'm hoping this episode actually showed a turning point, with Kate finally understanding Madison's own weight issues. Still, Madison is very patient if she keeps pushing to be Kate's friend. I mean, Madison went out of her way to find a wedding dress boutique perfect for Kate, got her a private appointment, and actually went with her to be a supportive "friend", and I use friend loosely because Kate's never considered Madison an actual friend. 

2 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Would make sense. Kevin wasn't in the after-fire scene with Miguel comforting the kids. He was with Sophie. Most likely at the dance, wearing the suit, so that suit survived the fire. Kate doesn't buy a dress, so I assume she doesn't go to the dance, and Randall asked the "cute little red haired girl" (tm Charlie Brown) to go OUT with him. He didn't ask her to the dance, so they also must have been "just hanging out" that night. 

I don't think the fire is the night of the dance, though. In the flashback sequence when we first find out about the fire, Teen Kevin isn't wearing a suit that night, but, I think, his sports varsity jacket. 

[bybrandy]

5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Costco, yeah.  I think Annie is a little bit prematurely consumerist if she prefers Costco to a park.  Costco is for stocking homes and small businesses, mostly.  Unless she is mad about hot dogs or frozen yogurt on the way out, it's not so much a kid-oriented place. 

There are like 10 parks within 5 miles of me and the nearest Costco is 40 minutes without traffic.  I'd prefer a Costco,too.  Team Annie.   She lives in the burbs.  She's got no dearth of safe places to play/commune with nature...  

[Empress1]

8 hours ago, Paloma said:

Thanks for clarifying--with all the scenes of the cat running to escape cars, dogs, and kids, I was so worried about his fate that it distracted me from some of the human drama. I did see the scene when he was the window sill being fed, but for some reason I thought this was just a temporary respite for him, not a permanent home.

Maybe someone has addressed this already, but how are Randall and Beth supposed to afford buying (and presumably renovating) a building when he does not have a job? I know they have a nice house and probably have decent savings, but Beth did not have a fancy office so I doubt that her salary is sufficient for supporting them and taking on this project. The seeming lack of realism took me out of the moment, though I guess it was meant to be a callback to Jack's foolish decision to restart his Big 3 business just as his kids are going to college.

I have less of a hard time with this as I do with most money things on TV and in movies (I enjoy playing "How Much Would That Cost In Real Life?" when I see anything related to NYC in the media) because I think it's been pretty well established that Randall and his family are well-off. The first time we met Randall he was talking about how he bought a $140K car in cash, and we know they live in Alpine, NJ, which is a VERY expensive area (Chris Rock lives there and he's joked about how it's basically Beverly Hills with snow). Even Beth said this episode that his getting a job wasn't about the money, so I assume they have enough cash that they can maintain their lifestyle (I doubt Beth's job pays anywhere near what Randall's did). Randall was a commodities trader in NYC with more than ten years' experience and was by all accounts excellent at his job (except when his mental health faltered), so between salary and bonuses, I can believe he socked away enough over the years to have what my finance professor called a "fuck-off fund."

I do find myself wondering what Kate is living on, given that we haven't seen her work since the Jamie Gertz job. That one singing gig probably paid peanuts, and she hasn't had another.

[MelGoLightly]

17 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Re: Batteries 

They do beep when the batteries are low but the beeping stops if you take the batteries out completely. It's dangerous but, I admit, I've been guilty of doing that when it starts beeping late at night and I don't have any new batteries on hand. 

It looked to me like the batteries were pulled fully out of the smoke detector and dangling underneath of it. And that would have been the kitchen smoke detector I believe.  Which is what people tend to do when the beeping starts to drive them insane and they think "eh, nothing will likely happen in the time it takes for me to run to get batteries..." but they obviously forgot all about the batteries once the sound died down. Big old bummer. 

Seems to me that everything is going to go down the night of the big formal. It kind of explains why Sophie and Kevin are out together, why Kate & Randall may have been in the same place at the same time, etc. I'm curious to see how it will unfold. 

The scenes with Clooney the Cat had me holding my breath. Not much on this show will make me cry (except for William and Jack on that bench...mercy) but if something tragic had happened to that cat, I would have absolutely lost it. 

Not only did Chrissy Metz impress me tonight, but the girl who portrays Young Cate was really great. I don't know if it's Kate's subtle weight loss or some kind of expression training they are both going through to mirror each other, but I can really see them as the same person at different ages. Something in the way they react to people. It's semi-haunting for actresses to be able to do that. 

Kevin. Stop. 

If the show is trying to make me feel super awkward about Today Rebecca and Today Miguel as a couple, they win! I like them and how they are together on paper, but err merrr geearrd do they seem cardboard compared to Jack & Rebecca. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by MelGoLightly
cutting quote

[ShadowFacts]

18 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

There are like 10 parks within 5 miles of me and the nearest Costco is 40 minutes without traffic.  I'd prefer a Costco,too.  Team Annie.   She lives in the burbs.  She's got no dearth of safe places to play/commune with nature...  

Hell's bells, there sure is a lot of Costco love.  My kids were grown by the time we got one nearby.  I can see a kid maybe liking samples, and of course they position the candy and snacks right before the checkouts same as any grocery store, but I still can't see a kid clamoring to go there.  I would think it would be a chore/snoozefest for a young kid.  It's a chore for me, anyway. 

11 minutes ago, MelGoLightly said:

If the show is trying to make me feel super awkward about Today Rebecca and Today Miguel as a couple, they win! I like them and how they are together on paper, but err merrr geearrd do they seem cardboard compared to Jack & Rebecca. 

True, Rebecca is quite subdued from what she was with Jack, but in fairness perhaps 20 years later she and Jack wouldn't have been as sparkling as they once were.  Some of the bloom comes off the rose after decades. 

[Lady Calypso]

30 minutes ago, MelGoLightly said:

If the show is trying to make me feel super awkward about Today Rebecca and Today Miguel as a couple, they win! I like them and how they are together on paper, but err merrr geearrd do they seem cardboard compared to Jack & Rebecca. 

Heh, so true. But I think that was what Rebecca was getting at. Their relationship is older and quieter. They're not going to have the same spark as Jack/Rebecca or a younger couple with a lot less life experience. They're comfortable with a quiet life, where all they need to focus on is their happiness together. I find myself liking it, actually. This is the first episode where I actually enjoyed them as a couple, mind you. Before, I just didn't get their relationship. Now, I find it kind of sweet. I think it was the small moment of them watching Tiny House Hunters and laughing about it that got my interest in them perked up. 

Also, I will say that I'm impressed to see the change in Kevin. He had several moments where he actually talked to Rebecca or Miguel, instead of keeping it in or sullenly mumbling some smartass comment. He got to talk to Rebecca in the grocery store about losing Jack's necklace, he talked to Miguel about how he was feeling about him tagging along (sure, maybe not the most appropriate time, but he tried to do it in a nice way), he apologized to Miguel and then asked him about his feelings for Rebecca before Jack's death, which I assume is a thought that's been on his mind since the two got together, and he got to talk to Rebecca about what happened in the living room when she pulled away from Miguel when Kevin walked in. 

Before all of this, Kevin would have likely kept his mouth shut but let those feelings fester until it exploded in a burst of anger and jerky behaviour. Here, he was rather polite, and even when he slipped and said the wrong thing to Miguel, he recognized his mistake, hung his head down immediately, and then apologized later that night. I'm liking where this is taking Kevin. He still has a way to go, and I'm sure he'll continue to slip up, but he's making progress. It's actually really neat to see that they're actually progressing him as a character. 

[Paloma]

2 hours ago, MBayGal said:

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

 

I must be the only one but I don't think the Kate/Madison friendship is really that simple or a good thing.  The look in Kate's face when Madison declared she never had a best friend before spoke volumes about how Kate sees issues on the horizon. Madison is going to trade one obsession (her weight) with another (Kate) and is likely to drive Kate crazy by clinging to her. 

Not that it wasn't lovely of Madison to understand Kate's feelings on dress and take her to the salon but one heart-to-heart talk does not a best friend make.  I foresee some stalker-ish antics coming up.

 

Thank you, I thought I was the only one and should slink off to the Unpopular Opinions thread.  

You two are definitely not the only ones (I posted on this earlier). I'll give it a chance to see how it develops, but so far this does not seem to be a healthy friendship or one that has developed naturally.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

However, I still want to see if Kate will actually treat her like a friend in future episode. She certainly understands her more after this episode, but I'm not sure what they were going for with her last look in the scene. Was it just supposed to be taken as a funny moment for the audience? Does Kate not consider Madison a friend? Is their relationship going to change in any way?

I think it was just supposed to mean "whoah that was out of nowhere, I didn't sign up for that."  But, that doesn't mean that upon reflection, Kate won't want to be her friend.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. same feelings on the Madison Kate scenes “I finally have a best friend!” The hell? 

The William and Randall stuff was fine, I guess. I don’t know.  

I like Kevin so much. And I’m glad they all - Miguel, Rebecca and Kevin-got to talk about their feelings. I do hope Kevin and Rebecca get some one on one time though. I do think they need it.

[Paloma]

29 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

43 minutes ago, MelGoLightly said:

If the show is trying to make me feel super awkward about Today Rebecca and Today Miguel as a couple, they win! I like them and how they are together on paper, but err merrr geearrd do they seem cardboard compared to Jack & Rebecca. 

True, Rebecca is quite subdued from what she was with Jack, but in fairness perhaps 20 years later she and Jack wouldn't have been as sparkling as they once were.  Some of the bloom comes off the rose after decades. 

 

7 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

But I think that was what Rebecca was getting at. Their relationship is older and quieter. They're not going to have the same spark as Jack/Rebecca or a younger couple with a lot less life experience. They're comfortable with a quiet life, where all they need to focus on is their happiness together. I find myself liking it, actually. This is the first episode where I actually enjoyed them as a couple, mind you. Before, I just didn't get their relationship. Now, I find it kind of sweet.

I like their relationship, too, but did anyone else worry that Miguel would walk in as Rebecca was describing their relationship to Kevin? Of course Miguel knows that Jack was the love of her life, but if you love someone it's got to be tough to hear the hesitation in Rebecca's answer to Kevin's question (I forget the wording but it was something like "Are you happy with him?") and the description that makes it seem like she settled for what happiness she could get with Miguel. 

The other thing that bothered me about the description of the relationship was the implication that it lacked the same spark in part because they are older. It's true that passion is usually more intense when you are younger, but as someone in a decades-long marriage (ages 67 and 70, respectively) I can tell you that great love and even passion are still possible at that stage of life! I understand that Jack/Rebecca is the primary relationship in this story, but it's typical of TV and movies to give the impression that people over 60 have to settle for a quiet, sparkless relationship.  

[MelGoLightly]

12 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think it was just supposed to mean "whoah that was out of nowhere, I didn't sign up for that."  But, that doesn't mean that upon reflection, Kate won't want to be her friend.

Totally agree! I took it as "Well THAT escalated quickly..."

I feel like Kate has been portrayed as having been focused on a man in some way or another her whole life - first her father, then the boys at the haunted house, then Kevin, then the dudes from her 20's episode, and now Toby (who was rather un-noticably absent in this ep). In the past few episodes she's starting to open herself up to a female who she may accidentally wind up trusting. She could potentially even find bonding with another woman surprisingly nice and not terrifying. The irony of her finding it in this tiny girl who clearly has body dysmorphia is part of what makes it one of those unlikely but intriguing friendships in tv & film. I do think it coinciding with her bonding with Rebecca post-miscarriage and the tougher scenes from this epsiode with young Kate and Rebecca clothes shopping have all been leading to this pro-female-trust storyline for Kate. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by MelGoLightly

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, mojoween said:

I wish either Rebecca or Miguel had just told Kevin about their reconnect on the website Rebecca was looking at many years after Jack’s death. Perhaps Kevin wouldn’t be so angry if he knew.

An Empire waist would be perfect for Kate.  Not sure about blush, and I hate the undertone of what they were implying by her not wanting the wedding white dress, but I get it.  It makes me sad, though.

Randall knew, as I recall. Of course, the siblings don't really talk all that much. I didn't take them as implying anything regarding the color of the wedding dress, just that she didn't want bright white. My mother had a midnight blue wedding dress - she was quite tarnished. ;)

I'm so sorry about your Dad, Mojoween. 

5 hours ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

I did too, and as a testament to the actor I find the character more believable when Miguel is aged as opposed to flashbacks when the actor is playing at or near his real younger age.

I thought that too. Which is quite a switch from last season - or rather, from the way I felt about his old Miguel vs his character on Castle.

5 hours ago, roughing it said:

I still have a problem with the way Mandy plays 66 yo.  It's so one-dimensional - she has the furrowed brow and a weird head tilt that drives me crazy.  I think she needs some direction with her portrayal.  I have no problem with the way she plays mom to young kids and mom to teens, just the older Rebecca.

I do too, but the tilt isn't part of it. Since I have a tilt and acquired it well before my 60's (was recently gathering old pictures of my youth and early courtship, and there it was, my head tilted in almost every shot). 

4 hours ago, meep.meep said:

No.  William named the cat Clooney because he liked women singers.  Rosemary Clooney, not George.

I would have thought that too, except that in the previouslies  William said specifically that he named for George Clooney as an irony because he was an ugly cat.

[bichonblitz]

20 hours ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

When did Cathy Moriarty turn into Gena Rowlands?

Ha, I thought Beverly D'Angelo for a moment. 

[debraran]

I feel from interviews, etc. the "cardboard" part of Miguel and Rebecca was because all the focus is on Jack now, but Miguel would come more later. Jack fans wont like seeing her cuddling too much or kissing him and Jack's dying in another time slot. I liked the scene watching tiny house hunting and had similar conversation with my husband. They love each other and it wont be the same, just like any love is different with different people, but in some ways he might be more stable.

My sister married a guy who had 3 kids who loved their mom desperately. They were adults but when she died of cancer, were in therapy for 2 years. My sister who came 4 years later was scorned, they were married, had kids but did not want anyone with their dad. It has softened, money was never an issue (they were taken care of) but some people really can't see their parent with another. .Three years later, it's much better, and they love to see him happy but it took time. Odd to me, but it does happen.

[mojoween]

I was interested that Miguel mentioned his kids during the flashback.  I wonder if they are going to appear, I mean, Shelley obviously remarried when they were teens but Miguel is their dad forever and they have a stepmom.

Edited January 17, 2018 by mojoween

[Trillium]

I took Kate’s facial expression to be like “Fuck, Madison is my best friend” and she just realized that was true. I just like seeing Kate with people that aren’t Toby or her family. 

[bichonblitz]

My favorite scene of this episode was Jack and Kevin in the suit store. Jack fussing with Kevins suit, Kevin realizing he really did have a good dad and the adoring way Jack was looking at Kevin. Not to mention Jack looked so incredibly handsome standing next to his son and beaming like the loving dad he was. It was all about the looks back and forth, nothing much else needed to be said. Excellent acting!

Edited January 17, 2018 by bichonblitz

[GodsBeloved]

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I'm not sure how I feel about Miguel tagging along on the grocery trip.

I get that the whole experience has been rough for Rebecca, and he's justifiably concerned that she'll be hurt again. But is the answer to prevent her and Kevin from being alone together?

The two of them spending some time together in a public place, where he's a lot less likely to make a scene, sounds like a good idea.

Also, I really wouldn't like it if my best friend said that he thinks of me and my significant other as a single entity.

I'm sure how I feel about Miguel's tag along ... hated it LOL

Kevin looked happy about having some time alone with his mom and Miguel screws that up, twice! I was hoping Rebecca would be attuned to Kevin and realize this was an opportunity for them to connect but she doesn't. Its such a contrast to Rebecca jumping at the chance to spend alone time with teen Kate.

I'm sad that whatever she told Miguel, it was framed as Kevin attacking her. I'm sad because to me it seems Rebecca still isn't giving Kevin's feelings much validation. He had a point and she all but admitted Kevin was right when she said Randall was easier. Maybe she wants to push it back under the rug but I think Kevin was right and Rebecca knows it ... she loved Randall the most and she did not love them the same/equally.

Regarding Rebecca/Jack vs Rebecca/Miguel, for me its past Rebecca vs current Rebecca. From the start, present Rebecca came off to me as still mourning Jack. Everything about her is just so, almost feeble. I was actually waiting for a reveal that she was sick.

I never thought she was miserable just sad. Glad I got the memo that she's (supposedly) happy.

[MissLucas]

Not-Babs was right that Kevin needs structure but you know who else needs structure? Randall.  I know a bit more about his issues than I would like to and so I know that a staying at home job all day is dangerous territory for him right now. Beth was right to call him back to earth but I don't think he really heard her.

Kevin with Rebecca and Miguel was intriguing - tense to watch but in the end satisfying. The Kevin-Miguel relationship was always interesting since Miguel never retaliated to Kevin's animosity (IIRC). Quite the contrary, when Kevin freaked out in 1.15 Miguel calmed him down with the 'You're Jack Pearson's son' speech. I thought that was pretty amazing considering how Kevin normally treated him but Miguel probably remembered that they once had had a good relationship and was patiently trying to rebuild that. It was nice to see that on-screen now.

I was expecting Rebecca to give Kevin her necklace by the end of the episode. It would replace the one Kevin lost and I can't help thinking it would also be nice for Miguel to embrace his wife without having to look at that token of the great love she lost. Maybe once Kevin's ready to move out.

Thanks to all who explained what went on with Kate in the dressing room. I was utterly confused when she tossed away the dress that did fit and had no idea what was going on. And yeah, her face when Maddison snuggled up to her going all BFFs was priceless.

Edited January 18, 2018 by MissLucas

[Biggie B]

Quote

I have to say, I really like that the show didn't fast forward Kevin admitting that he lost Jack's dog tags. I was so afraid the family would have already known and we would have missed that moment. I'm really glad they didn't, because it led to the really nice juxtaposition of Rebecca unable to take off Jack's necklace he gave her with Kevin losing Jack's dog tags he gave him. 

Quote

My recollection was that it wasn't the dog tags, but a different necklace. I could be wrong though.

The necklace wasn't Jack's dog tags. It was either a religious icon of some sort, like St. Jude, or one of those AA tokens. 

[Lady Calypso]

30 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

The necklace wasn't Jack's dog tags. It was either a religious icon of some sort, like St. Jude, or one of those AA tokens. 

Oh, my bad. I totally am mistaken, then!

[ShadowFacts]

31 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

The necklace wasn't Jack's dog tags. It was either a religious icon of some sort, like St. Jude, or one of those AA tokens. 

Didn't Jack tell Kevin that he had been given the necklace at a time when he really needed it in (or right after) Vietnam?  So maybe not an AA token. 

[debraran]

17 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Didn't Jack tell Kevin that he had been given the necklace at a time when he really needed it in (or right after) Vietnam?  So maybe not an AA token. 

He did, it wasn't dog tags or AA thing. He said  “I got this at a very hopeless time in my life,” Jack reveals. “Someone very special gave it back to me in Vietnam.” The symbol on the jewelry, the dad explains, is a Buddhist symbol of purpose, and it greatly resembles the dharmachakra, one of the most important symbols of the religion.

[Biggie B]

Yeah, I didn't think it was an AA token, but I knew it wasn't his dog tags. Maybe somehow, he'll get it back from that woman he slept with, if she still has it. Perhaps he'll try to contact her to apologize.

[Paloma]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

11 hours ago, Paloma said:

I also liked Kate being a wise voice and helping someone, but I really had a hard time accepting the whole "wedding dress shopping helps Madison and Kate become best friends" plot. Speaking from personal experience as someone who has had a lifelong poor self-image (even when I was not overweight) and who has been between 25 and 40 pounds overweight most of my adult life, I would not want to shop for a special occasion dress at all, but if I had to do it I would rather go by myself than with a thin person (even if that person is a good friend). I remember a few years ago that I needed to get a dress for an important event and had no luck in my first shopping trip. My husband then suggested I ask one or both of my relatives (who are also good friends) to go with me, because they always dress nicely (in contrast to my schlumpy style, though he didn't say that) and have a good eye for what looks good. I couldn't do it, in large part because they were both slim and I would be embarrassed by how I looked in anything I tried on. If I were 100 pounds or more overweight, I can't imagine allowing myself being talked into going full-out traditional bridal gown--custom made or not, my body could not be concealed or flattered enough to make me forget about how I look. I don't say this as a disparagement of the actress or any other person who is 100+ pounds overweight, and I know that there are some who refuse to be ashamed by society's standards and are proud of their bodies (and good for them). But we have repeatedly been shown in this series, and especially in this episode, how Kate's lifelong weight struggles and poor self-image have affected her, so it simply is not believable to me that all of a sudden she would let herself be convinced by Madison--who at that point was far from a close friend--to go through a shopping experience that would likely turn out worse than her memory of the prom gown experience.

Madison specifically told Kate that she wouldn't have to try on any dresses. All they were doing was looking at different dresses to see what Kate liked. The girl at the shop showed her one with an empire waist, talked about fabric, and asked if she liked lace. No trying anything on, as Madison promised.

Madison: I am taking you wedding dress shopping.
Kate: Oh, that's a hard no.
Madison: Kate, come on. I know the perfect place. They do custom dresses. You don't have to try anything on. You just have to sip champagne and talk about silhouettes, and you'll be treated like a princess. 
Kate: I don't have to try anything on? 
Madison: Nothing. I promise I can make this a nice thing for you. The moment you're at all uncomfortable, we leave. No hesitation, no questions. Let me help you clear this hurdle.

This is the quote I couldn't find earlier. You are right that Madison promised Kate she wouldn't have to try anything on, that it would just be a nice experience, and Kate could decide to leave anytime. This does make it easier to buy Kate's going along with it, but I do still have trouble with the idea that Kate would be comfortable going wedding dress shopping with a thin woman who up til now Kate has mostly viewed as someone who doesn't belong in the support group because she (Madison) can't relate to the real problems of people who are seriously overweight. Again, maybe I am just projecting my insecurities onto this TV character.

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

I can't help thinking it would also be nice for Miguel to embrace his wife without having to look at that token of the great love she lost.

So true! I was feeling so bad for Miguel this episode, and I didn't even like him in previous episodes. But the poor guy needs some love!

[marceline]

I'm doing a rewatch and can't help but smile at the fact that the first scene is that of Clooney the cat scored by Billie Holiday's "God Bless the Child." Well done show.

[MsChicklet]

I liked the way Clooney was woven in, and that there wasn't a meet-cute with Randall but he stayed in the neighborhood.

My uncomfortable thought when Randall became fixated on finding William's "Lady" was that Randall may have been trying to further push William's bisexuality from his mind.

Randall just has to go big or go home. He can't simply tutor, or be a Big Brother, or find a way to put his skills to work at a nonprofit. No, he has to buy a tenement building and be the benevolent benefactor. Beth's last nerve must be getting frayed.

It was good seeing more about Miguel. I've always felt there had to be something in him to make Rebecca want to marry again after loving and losing Jack. I'm wondering when his first family will come in. If not Shelly, then his kids.

While I get that Miguel wanted to protect Rebecca, part of me wondered if he felt or acted the same towards Kate after her public rant at Rebecca after her gig, or Randall when he tore Rebecca to shreds in front of the whole family including the grandchildren at Thanksgiving.

I liked that Kate gave Madison a chance and trusted her with the dress place. I think she's seen that Madison is good-hearted. When Madison made that "best friend" reference, I saw Kate's face and wondered if her mind (like mine) went back to her once-best friend Sophie. 

[methodwriter85]

9 minutes ago, MsChicklet said:

Randall just has to go big or go home. He can't simply tutor, or be a Big Brother, or find a way to put his skills to work at a nonprofit. No, he has to buy a tenement building and be the benevolent benefactor. Beth's last nerve must be getting frayed.

In another state, no less.

I feel like we're definitely headed towards a come to Jesus moment with Beth.

[TeapotDiva]

I was wondering how Madison knew so much about this bridal-dress shop (unless the owner was a friend of hers).  Perhaps she had been engaged earlier, bought her dress there, and then for some reason (break-up, death) didn't get married?  That also could explain why she binged and purged at the shop.  Just a thought.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

He did, it wasn't dog tags or AA thing. He said  “I got this at a very hopeless time in my life,” Jack reveals. “Someone very special gave it back to me in Vietnam.” The symbol on the jewelry, the dad explains, is a Buddhist symbol of purpose, and it greatly resembles the dharmachakra, one of the most important symbols of the religion.

Yeah, I went back to edit my post because it was totally my bad.

[Bringonthedrama]

7 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Miguel's line about JackandRebecca being a single entity is creepy. 

Creepy, and it also didn't truly answer Kevin's question.  It came off to me like he really meant, "I wouldn't have tried to 'steal' your mom from your dad because your mom and dad were so in love that I wouldn't have had a chance, and also because I wouldn't do that to my best friend." His comment to Jack at the bar early in J&R's marriage strongly implied that he was attracted to and/or had a crush on Rebecca, but probably never acknowledged it to himself let alone Jack. Jack strikes me as the type to tell Miguel and anyone else that he couldn't live/function without Rebecca, since his self-image was not a great one due to his father and those growing up years.  So, I get why Miguel would say that line to Kevin and believe it to be the truth.

[MelGoLightly]

Did anyone else start to think that William was secretly in love with Beth when they cut from William's sketches to Beth's face suddenly? I was braced for a really goofy story line involving William pining for Beth. Could not have been more happy that I was wrong. 

[TheNewJanBrady]

Since Clooney was the name of the episode, I was so sure something bad would happen to him at the end that I was actually relieved to see the missing batteries instead. #catlover #sorryjack

[chitowngirl]

6 hours ago, Cyranetta said:

 

I wonder if the little boy adopted by Clooney the Cat will wind up to be the next child Randall & Beth foster?

Doubtful. William lived in Pennsylvania and Randall lives in New Jersey.

[DesertCyclist]

I want to know where Madison got that throw.

[DebbieM4]

9 hours ago, MBayGal said:

 And I agree with whoever wondered how Kate could afford this custom-made dress.  Which frankly, I don't see as able to disguise her weight in any way.  

 

The point isn't to disguise her weight.  It's to find a dress that makes her feel beautiful and happy on her wedding day.  That's what every woman wants.  Why should she disguise her weight?   She just wants a dress that's flattering, not one that fools anyone (including Toby, who loves her) into thinking she's thin.   

[Guest]

7 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Hell's bells, there sure is a lot of Costco love.  My kids were grown by the time we got one nearby.  I can see a kid maybe liking samples, and of course they position the candy and snacks right before the checkouts same as any grocery store, but I still can't see a kid clamoring to go there.  I would think it would be a chore/snoozefest for a young kid.  It's a chore for me, anyway. 

True, Rebecca is quite subdued from what she was with Jack, but in fairness perhaps 20 years later she and Jack wouldn't have been as sparkling as they once were.  Some of the bloom comes off the rose after decades. 

I’m thinking you go to a regular grocery store not a Costco, because there’s no candy by the registers in Costcos.  I agree, the grocery store is a drag but Costco is fun.  I look for excuses to go weekly and have for 30 years.  I love a bargain.   And they just have the coolest stuff.  My teen used to like to go with me, for the food.  

I watched this ep with her.  We laugh at how awful 90% of the dialogue is.  She balks at what assholes they are to each other.   

[DebbieM4]

19 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I’m thinking you go to a regular grocery store not a Costco, because there’s no candy by the registers in Costcos.  I agree, the grocery store is a drag but Costco is fun.  I look for excuses to go weekly and have for 30 years.  I love a bargain.   And they just have the coolest stuff.  My teen used to like to go with me, for the food.  

I watched this ep with her.  We laugh at how awful 90% of the dialogue is.  She balks at what assholes they are to each other.   

Yes, I was just thinking that I've never seen candy by the registers at Costco.

And it can be fun there!  Costco has everything - There's a lot beyond groceries and paper goods,, and I think kids like the enormity of it, the food samples that are different all the time, the vast variety of things all under one roof, etc.  It's kind of a unique shopping experience especially for kids who are used to malls and grocery stores.

[Superpole2000]

An episode about Kate being fat, William being dead, and Jack's impending doom. Was this a rerun?

That said, I did like Kate finally being nice. But of course, she had to dump a few passive aggressive comments on Madison before the niceness.

Randall...are we sure he is smart? Do smart people lose their shit like this? He is all over the place! Who takes a phone call during a job interview?

[bichonblitz]

6 minutes ago, Superpole2000 said:

Randall...are we sure he is smart? Do smart people lose their shit like this? He is all over the place! Who takes a phone call during a job interview?

I'm getting the feeling Randall has Bipolar issues. Maybe some medication is in order. 

[methodwriter85]

43 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I'm getting the feeling Randall has Bipolar issues. Maybe some medication is in order. 

I feel like he would have been diagnosed with that given that he's sought treatment for his crippling panic attacks.

But yeah- we're supposed to root for him when he can't even have the respect for someone interviewing him to take their call? A 37-year old grown ass man? Seriously?

[TomServo]

On 1/16/2018 at 10:04 PM, Neurochick said:

Don’t those things beep like crazy if you don’t replace the batteries?  Mine does.

 

It was the 1990's.  I don't know when hard-wired smoke detectors became a thing, but our house didn't have them back then.  Ours were only powered by the batteries, and when they were out, they were out; there was nothing to power a beep.

I just want to know who are these people who buy batteries at the mall?  And why does retirement-age Miguel bathe in self-tanner?

 

My kids loooooove going to Costco.

Edited January 18, 2018 by TomServo

[UsernameFatigue]

18 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 I care about the cat.  I loved seeing him with the lonely looking little boy after Garrett Morris had said, "Strays have a way of ending up with the person who needs them."

I've always defended Miguel and I like him even more these days.  It takes a real good guy to put up with his wife's rude kids just for her sake.

I'm starting to feel extremely guilty because I've lost both my parents and yet I didn't quit my job, spend the rest of my life mooning over their stuff, watching TV with their ashes, wearing their jewelry day and night, and going completely off the rails.  The only one I can see having any reason for that sort of grief/guilt might be Kate if she begged her dad to go back in for her dog.

I cared about the cat more than anyone/anything in this episode. I was actually annoyed that Randall could not be bothered to find Clooney, and even if he could not take him home himself at least attempt to find Clooney a home. I did think the comment "Strays have a way of ending up with the person who needs them" was an interesting comment said to Randall, since Randall was abandoned and presumably ended up with people who needed him. 

I was glad that Beth told Randall that she needed him to get a job, because I need Randall to get a job. He is annoying the crap out of me, bouncing from one thing to another. I am not the biggest Beth fan, but she is a friggin' saint these days. 

I was thinking when teenage Kate was at the mall trying on dresses, that she was not that big at all to not be able to fit into one of the dresses she took to the dressing room. So it made sense when they showed that she really could fit into one of the dresses, but was unable to enjoy that victory. I continue to be amazed at how much the actress playing teenage Kate looks like adult Kate. 

[ThisIsMe]

After last week's "family therapy" episode - which was the best so far, I think - this was a hard act to follow.

My overall reaction to "Clooney" was that Clooney the cat was the best part.  I was pretty sure the writers wouldn't kill off Clooney.  I'm actually thinking they may have brought him back because viewers were wondering why William stopped taking the bus to take care of him ... and it wasn't until Jesse told us that a "crazy neighbor" was taking care of him ... but the neighbor didn't seem crazy at all tonight.  Anyway, I don't think the writers are "cat people," but nevertheless, Clooney kind of stole the show, in my opinion.  And, he seems happy with the little boy who took him in.

As for the battery-less smoke detector ... come on!  If that's our "clue," it is way too obvious.  As of now, my guess is that Jack dies running back into the house to look for Kate's dog, and that's why she thinks his death is her fault.  I hope there's a different twist, because I thought that last scene with the smoke detector was weak ..

Re what role Jack will have in the episodes after we learn how he died ... well, there's always the mystery brother they could bring in.

Still love the show, but I don't think the "Clooney" episode was one of the best.

[WhosThatGirl]

This was a decent episode. Nothing bad, nothing overly great or powerful(unlike last week) and then the last 30 seconds broke me. The foreshadowing this show does is excellent. 

And I remember last week I was talking about this show and I was unsure about my feelings regarding Jacks death now. I remember in season one, a lot of us were afraid it would be Jack hurting himself because Rebecca and him were fighting or he was drinking and driving or the battle with his alcoholism, but now that it appears that the family is in a good place and it is a freak accident, it seems like it’s going to be worse. 

[debraran]

3 hours ago, TomServo said:

 

It was the 1990's.  I don't know when hard-wired smoke detectors became a thing, but our house didn't have them back then.  Ours were only powered by the batteries, and when they were out, they were out; there was nothing to power a beep.

I just want to know who are these people who buy batteries at the mall?  And why does retirement-age Miguel bathe in self-tanner?

 

 

I wonder if the awful self-tanner is because he came up from Texas? Remember when Randall's baby was born and she found him on FB? He was still living there...but he's been up north for a while. lol

[debraran]

22 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, and that he knew Kevin wouldn't like it and he didn't care. 

I do have to wonder if going grocery shopping with Mom on Mondays is enough structure as was prescribed by Kevin's therapist.  Of course it's not, so he needs to get volunteering, or, if I am writing the show, going to work on Randall's building.  People seem to want more of the Pearson siblings interacting and that would do it. 

I liked that too, I'm respectful but not bullied by you Kevin. He talks to Rebecca more than Kevin and saw things with them growing up so his perspective is different and I'm glad he cared about her enough to go the first time. He also was classy enough to not answer Kevin when he said "Jack was her husband"  That forced the apology though later which was supposed to show us growth and a start. I want to see him and Randall interact more and Kate and Randall, he does seem to be in his bubble and I enjoy the 3 of them when they have scenes. Maybe that will be part of his structure and keeping busy in a safe environment. Teach children acting, volunteer?

Edited January 18, 2018 by debraran

[ShadowFacts]

6 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I’m thinking you go to a regular grocery store not a Costco, because there’s no candy by the registers in Costcos.  I agree, the grocery store is a drag but Costco is fun.  I look for excuses to go weekly and have for 30 years.  I love a bargain.   And they just have the coolest stuff.  My teen used to like to go with me, for the food.  

No, I'm a member, and I shop there every couple months.  At our nearby one, the candy and snacks are located right before the checkouts, nothing at the registers.  So there's sampling going on there and of course the food right beyond the checkouts.  They have good prices for many things and it's fine if you like to buy in bulk, but I still don't see the appeal for little kids, and hardly see any there.  I see the draw for adults and small business owners, but a little one preferring it to fun at a park is still jumping out at me -- too materialistic at a young age.  Maybe that's the point with Annie.  She and Tess do have an iPad, maybe she wants more electronics. 

 

5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

But yeah- we're supposed to root for him when he can't even have the respect for someone interviewing him to take their call? A 37-year old grown ass man? Seriously?

It was really rude and he surely knew that sunk his chances for that job, but he telegraphed that he didn't give a rip.  I think he said that fairly clearly to Beth in the kitchen.  I don't think he wants a corporate or conventional job anymore, period, and not just because of still grieving. 

[Johnny Dollar]

I hate to be the one to say this, but as someone who grew up in Trenton, NJ, that place is a real “shithole” (tm - Johnny Dollar) and there is no way Costco would ever put a store there. It’s the fricking state capital and doesn’t even have a movie theater or a hotel. 

[debraran]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

 

 

It was really rude and he surely knew that sunk his chances for that job, but he telegraphed that he didn't give a rip.  I think he said that fairly clearly to Beth in the kitchen.  I don't think he wants a corporate or conventional job anymore, period, and not just because of still grieving. 

I think he knew it was rude, even that he left it on, they wanted him and didn't want them. You never saw anything after he left the room, but he was going to kill that job before he went.  I guess he's not getting any therapy for his anxiety and grief?