S02.E02: Manhunt

[Florinaldo]

13 hours ago, Mountainair said:

Was he really so cute in real life because I feel all sorts of dirty enjoying him dancing in his speedo! I'm trying not to spoil myself by reading up on this case but I wonder how factual a lot of the private scenes are with Andrew and the old guy, or Andrew and the duct tape in his hotel room, etc... The scene with the old guy and the S&M really freaked me out. 

If you do a search on the Web you will find plenty of pictures of AC, from what looks like mug shots to yearbook pics, so you can judge for yourself if he fits your definition of "cute" (it is very subjective after all). In Maureen Orth's book on which this series is based, she reports that AC was involved in some heavy BDSM as a hustler, for clients who liked being dominated or humiliated and deprived of their power. I do not recall if she specifically mentions duct tape activity. Understandably, none of his clients wrote memoirs of their encounters so there is little if any direct testimony, exscept what she may possibly have gathered through interviews. That scene probably was conceived as a plausible representative of what might have happened during those sessions.

Spoiler

Duct tape does feature in one of the other murders.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Florinaldo

[caracas1914]

Goodness gracious, Edgar Ramirez looks and sounds so much like Versace and I love his nuanced subtle performanc, what an incredible actor.   He somehow conveys an artistic and creative person without much histrionics.  Ricky Martin is also turning in a surprisingly good performance as his lover Antonio.   Penelope Cruz is more of a stretch for me, though she has had a couple scenes of raw power and emotion.  However the script for her is a bit risible.

 

Can see why the Versace’s have totally disavowed the miniseries.   Not only the heavily implied AIDS for Gianni but all the (understandably) speculative family drama and plus the graphic detailed way the miniseries  goes over his assasination and death.

 

I”m finding the whole “homophobia killed Versace” a bit of a stretch.  Of course the cops were clueless as to how to deal with gay community, but by the time he came to Miami he had already killed a prominent Chicago realtor tycoon and a cemetery caretaker so it wasn’t just “gay on gay” crimes.  Of course there was probably homophobia, but I’m sure the usual ineptitude, carelessness and weird conincidences (the guy at the Subway shop calling in and the police just missing Cunanan) were also factors. 

[darkestboy]

Bit better second episode wise. I thought both Ricky Martin and Penelope Cruz did a bit better as well as Antonio and Donatella and I could see both their POVs and sympathise with their grief over Gianni's death.

Bit risky of this series confirming that Gianni had HIV when the family themselves never did. I do think Edgar Ramirez is doing a great and I hope he ends up on another Ryan Murphy series after this one.

Andrew just cannot help himself lying and it's genuinely unsettling to watch with each episode. 

The scenes with him and the older guy during that S&M session, Ronnie and the other guy in the club. Criss is knocking it out of the park though.

Still pretty reeled into this series so far, 7/10

[helenamonster]

I like all three of the storylines running through this season: the Versace family drama, Cunanan's path to serial killerhood, and the flailing manhunt to catch him.

Unpopular opinion, but I could kind of see where Donatella was coming from without empathizing or sympathizing with her. She loved her brother and wanted him to be happy, and she didn't think Antonio was making him happy. Where I stop siding with her is in the fact I don't think she knew what Gianni wanted as much as she claims she did (and of course I am only talking about this as it's depicted in the show, I don't know how all these people felt about each other in real life). I also wouldn't be surprised if she had some unrealized, internalized homophobia.

I'm loving Edgar Ramirez as Gianni. There's such a warmth and kindness about him, and I'm kind of amazed at what a lowkey person he was when everything about his company was ostentatious and over-the-top.

I too was wondering how anybody could be charmed by Cunanan, who appears completely incapable of talking about anything other than himself, but I kind of get it. I work in the entertainment industry (the lowest possible rung of the ladder you can be while still making a livable wage) and I get to meet a lot of people who know famous people. Of course at first I'm dying to hear stories, but eventually it does get old when all people are interested in is name dropping and they never once even pretend to care about how you're doing. So I can get how people could get pulled in by Cunanan in the beginning, but it appears there's a pattern of people dropping him like a hot potato, or him dropping them when they're no longer useful, that I can also see how these relationships don't last very long.

The show is doing a good job so far of laying the groundwork for this manhunt being a flaming dumpster fire. Even the local cop who knew enough about the local gay scene to give the feds some pointers didn't seem to care that much when Cunanan's wanted poster got covered by other flyers.

As with the previous season, the production design and music choices are so perfect and completely set the tone for the series. I'm loving all the kitsch of '90s Florida.

[wanderingstar]

4 hours ago, helenamonster said:

I'm loving Edgar Ramirez as Gianni. There's such a warmth and kindness about him, and I'm kind of amazed at what a lowkey person he was when everything about his company was ostentatious and over-the-top.

Me too. I'm also liking the portrayal of Gianni and Antonio's relationship. Ricky Martin's doing a good job, and the actors have a nice chemistry.

Quote

I’ve never really liked Darren Criss as an actor. I don’t like him in this either. He’s always too over the top and he’s not good in this show and is ruining it more.

I have not seen Darren Criss in anything before this, but I'm not enjoying him here. I don't know if it's just his performance or the writing, or both, but his character is coming across as a big non-entity to me. I'm more interested in the people AC is interacting with (Ronnie, hell, even the hotel clerk, Miriam). Maybe the character will get more interesting as the series goes on.

[SarahPrtr]

I was really looking forward to this series, a lot more than the OJ Simpson one.  We were all saturated with OJ daily court drama and everything that was surrounding the case.  Less people seem to know about AC, even though he killed four people, including Versace.  So far, I'm not drawn into the story, and this second episode was downright boring.  I can understand if anyone who's not familiar with AC being confused and wanting to tune out because it's all over the place.  I read into the AC story years ago more from a psychiatric point of view, rather than a celebrity murder, so I know about AC and his personality and biography, but yeah, so far, unimpressed.  If it had been released all at once, it would be more interesting, but watching it one week apart would not really hold people's interest.

[Florinaldo]

On 27/01/2018 at 10:15 AM, darkestboy said:

Bit risky of this series confirming that Gianni had HIV when the family themselves never did.

(...)

The scenes with him and the older guy during that S&M session, Ronnie and the other guy in the club. Criss is knocking it out of the park though.

In her book, Orth mentions she had one single source for that piece of information, not someone from the medical examiner's office but a law enforcement person (I forget from which agency) who read the autopsy report. She decided it was plausible enough and so did the show apparently. Trouble is, in a TV show you can't have a footnote or small paragraph explaining your sourcing; the narrative has to keep going along. They hedged their bets a bit by never mentioning HIV or AIDS, but everything so blatantly pointed to it during the hospital sequence that the ambiguity is just about inexistent. The Versace family has a brand image and an official history to preserve; they insisted at the time that GV had cancer and not HIV, mainly for financial reasons as mentioned upthread, so they can't reverse themselves now.

During that domination session, the client cannot see AC so his little dance number is solely for his own enjoyment. In a sense, he is his own best audience. Contrary to a similar scene in American Psycho which veered into a cartoonish tone, this show keeps it very dark and unrelentingly serious. Risky choices for the production and the actor since it can turn off the audience or easily become caricature, but they are pulling it off quite well I think. I think though that the depiction of AC will gain still more weight in retrospect as we see more of his past history and upon rewatching the episodes without a week's delay between them, as the people who got the screeners were able to do, to much greater impact. FX will eventually have a few full-day marathons, as they do with most of their series including OJ this weekend (I tried to watch it but still could not find it interesting enough to sustain continuous viewing). 

 

16 hours ago, helenamonster said:

So I can get how people could get pulled in by Cunanan in the beginning, but it appears there's a pattern of people dropping him like a hot potato, or him dropping them when they're no longer useful, that I can also see how these relationships don't last very long.

(...)

The show is doing a good job so far of laying the groundwork for this manhunt being a flaming dumpster fire. Even the local cop who knew enough about the local gay scene to give the feds some pointers didn't seem to care that much when Cunanan's wanted poster got covered by other flyers.

It does seem like he does not pursue a relationship or that he stops expending his charm when the person stops being useful, even in small encounters like that little girl in the parking lot; when he realises that his smile is not winning her over, he immediately stops wasting his time and reverts to his dead-eyed persona. By contrast, since the landlady at the hotel is useful to him he persists in his efforts and even rehearses his lines in front of a mirror.

Institutional homophobia or indifference probably was not the only factor; few situations have one single cause and there have been other police investigations that were bungled in the absence of any LGBT element in the case. However, the factual evidence is persuasive enough that it is difficult to disagree that it was the overarching reason for the failure, all the others being tertiary ones at best.

[helenamonster]

4 minutes ago, starri said:

If Versace was as friendly and kind in real life as he was with that Donatella drag queen, I can see why he was so well-liked.

Right? He didn't have to come outside or say anything; eventually she would have gone away, or been escorted away by security. He seemed to genuinely love the trappings that his lifestyle afforded him (wealth, attention) without becoming conceited or snobbish. It's like he never stopped being the young man from Italy who only had the one little store. I think it was because he truly loved the work he was doing; he wasn't a designer to become rich and famous, he was a designer because it was his vocation.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Florinaldo said:

so they can't reverse themselves now

I think they could; it's been more than 10 years since Gianni died. Donatella is firmly in control of the company, and I don't see how telling the truth (if that's indeed the truth) can hurt anything.

26 minutes ago, helenamonster said:

I think it was because he truly loved the work he was doing; he wasn't a designer to become rich and famous, he was a designer because it was his vocation.

Gianni seemed to genuinely love women and want to make them look their best, which is still exceedingly rare in the fashion business. His designs weren't for him.

[starri]

Even if Versace was HIV+, it was well on the way to being manageable by 1997.  Protease inhibitors had been available for a few years at that point, and the triple cocktail became standard therapy around the same time.  And he was a very wealthy guy with access to the best treatments and doctors.

As for the family's decision to bury that knowledge with him (if indeed Orth's source was correct, which I suspect he or she was), 1997 wasn't 2018, but it also wasn't 1987.

[Florinaldo]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I think they could; it's been more than 10 years since Gianni died. Donatella is firmly in control of the company, and I don't see how telling the truth (if that's indeed the truth) can hurt anything.

They have held out for so long for that version of facts that it has become part of the very fiber of the company's (and the family's) founding myth. Reversing themselves would give rise to many questions: why are you doing this now, what changed, why did you deny the truth, what about how you treated your brother's surviving partner, etc. It's a PR debate they probably would see no reason to create.

Plus, it may be true that it was not HIV. As I said, Orth's set of evidence was meager.

Orth's approach to the gay community may not have been quite anthropological, but she was an reporter investigating a milieu that was very unfamiliar to her and probably to most of her readers, hence her clinical tone. Even today, many members of the LGBTQ community while aware of the existence of the BDSM and hustler subcultures would have no direct knowledge of either.

 

2 hours ago, starri said:

It's a damned shame that since I think they'll submit under the Limited Series categories at the Emmys, Max Greenfield probably won't be eligible for a Guest Actor nomination.

The Emmy rules read as follows:

"SUPPORTING PERFORMERS IN MOVIES OR LIMITED SERIES: The minimum on-screen time for eligibility in the supporting performer categories for movies or limited series is 5% of the total running time of a movie or a complete limited series". So that's 5 % of 9 episodes, each totalling roughly 50 minutes or so (perhaps the finale will be longer).

Considering the episodic nature of the series, with individual murders or plot turns treated in one or two episodes, MG might not be the only performer to fall short of the required threshold even if they provide as strong a performance as he did. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Florinaldo

[starri]

8 minutes ago, Florinaldo said:

Orth's approach to the gay community may not have been quite anthropological, but she was an reporter investigating a milieu that was very unfamiliar to her and probably to most of her readers, hence her clinical tone. Even today, many members of the LGBTQ community while aware of the existence of the BDSM and hustler subcultures would have no direct knowledge of either.'

To me, there's a gulf between not understanding BDSM and thinking that "top" and "bottom" refer to the gentlemen's orientation in space.

While she may never have encountered people, gay or straight, who were out about being kinky, for the latter, I assume she'd met at least met a gay person once or twice.  She wrote for Vanity Fair, not a local paper in the Deep South.

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, starri said:

As for the family's decision to bury that knowledge with him (if indeed Orth's source was correct, which I suspect he or she was), 1997 wasn't 2018, but it also wasn't 1987.

True, but there's another factor here, and that's America vs. Italy. 1997 America wasn't the same as 1997 Italy, and that difference would color the views of the Versace family. I'm not surprised that, if Gianni was HIV-positive, Donatella and the Versace family felt it best to bury it then, and I also don't find it all that surprising that they would stick to that even now, the older members anyway. Younger members likely don't even know the truth either way.

[truthaboutluv]

On 1/24/2018 at 11:09 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Had to laugh at Gianni interacting with the Donatella drag queen impersonator. The one lighthearted moment in the whole show.

Yeah that moment both cracked me up and endeared him even more. From my understanding, most people who knew and worked with Gianni always said he was a really nice man. 

 

On 1/26/2018 at 9:44 AM, MaggieG said:

At least we know the guy in the sub shop was watching :)

This was another moment that got a laugh from me. The way the guy went, "I don't know his name but he was on America's Most Wanted" and when the operator asked if he was black or white, the guy sort of shrugs and goes "the white guy who killed all the other white guys".

 

On 1/25/2018 at 10:47 AM, Florinaldo said:

The interactions between Ronnie and AC were the most affecting sections of this episode. It's a moment AC seems to be on the verge of making true contact with another person, but he knows it is impossible because of the path he has laid for himself and what he has already done. He goes so far as advising Ronnie to deny knowing him, for his own protection I suppose. I thought the two actors did an excellent job in those scenes, establishing the connection between the two but still with some distance.

I also really loved those scenes. They were incredibly depressing but pretty affecting. I thought the moment of them getting high and Andrew looking at Ronnie, almost in disgust, both of Ronnie and himself, was pretty powerful. While the show is employing the disjointed storytelling narrative, you do get bits and pieces of Andrew's motivation and his path. The fact is Andrew was a highly intelligent guy who could have, if he'd been willing to work hard enough for it, been something special and someone whose name the world would know. And instead, he tried easy fixes, lies, embellishments and ended up broke, in a run down motel, hustling old guys for sex, getting high with a guy who equally had nothing to his name and growing more and more resentful at others, namely Versace, for what he didn't have but more importantly felt he was somehow owed.

 

On 1/25/2018 at 9:07 AM, numbnut said:

The scene of Cunanan on the club's dance floor was also redundant. He's a sociopath who enjoys lying about his identity. We get it.

 

On 1/25/2018 at 9:15 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

The dance club scene was also to show how, even when telling the truth---Cunanan first said he was a serial killer---Cunanan could get away with much.

I didn't see the scene as simply reiterating that Andrew was a sociopath who enjoyed lying about his identity. I saw it as further signs of his spiraling and getting closer to the place he was in, where he decided murdering a man who never did a single thing to him, was worth it to have the world know his name. His listing all these 10,000 fake careers and lies and stories about himself was a reminder of how desperately he wanted to be someone special, important and remembered. But again, for all his lies and stories and manipulations, he was still just a broke, no-name rent a boy. 

 

Quote

Andrew Cunanan was one creepy dude. Was he really so cute in real life because I feel all sorts of dirty enjoying him dancing in his speedo! I'm trying not to spoil myself by reading up on this case but I wonder how factual a lot of the private scenes are with Andrew and the old guy, or Andrew and the duct tape in his hotel room, etc... The scene with the old guy and the S&M really freaked me out. 

I wouldn't say Cunanan was cute in real life, based on the pictures that were released of him but there is a decent resemblance between him and Darren, which I think is because like Cuananan, Darren is half-Filipino. What was interesting about Cunanan's looks is how he could age himself and look pretty differently. There are pictures of him in his latter years were he still believably looked late 20's and those where he looked like a 50+ year old guy.

As for the stuff with Cuananan and the old guy, I don't know if it is true or not but since Cuananan didn't kill him, it is possible he came forward after Cuananan murdered Versace and his picture was all over the place. So the details of what happened could have been found out in that way. 

I am enjoying the show. I can understand why it may seem a bit slow right now for people who don't really know the backstory, not to mention the jumping between timelines. But I am enjoying it and am very interested to see how things unfolded with Cuananan's first murders and how things all come to a head in the end. I also continue to have the unpopular opinion of not caring a whit about comparing this season to the O.J. season because while I enjoyed the O.J. season, I don't think it was this epitome of perfection either. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[Florinaldo]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

The fact is Andrew was a highly intelligent guy who could have, if he'd been willing to work hard enough for it, been something special and someone whose name the world would know. And instead, he tried easy fixes, lies, embellishments and ended up broke, in a run down motel, hustling old guys for sex, getting high with a guy who equally had nothing to his name and growing more and more resentful at others, namely Versace, for what he didn't have but more importantly felt he was somehow owed.

I think you are making a crucial point and it goes to how the show has chosen to delineate the contrast between the two persons. GV works very hard and applies his creative talents to achieving the great lasting success he seeks; AC thinks he is owed great things by the universe and grows resentful when he does not get it. He opts for easy short term solutions; in then end he turns to violence and applies his own brand of creativity to bringing destruction on others to achieve fame (not necessarily the most lasting or worthwhile of acccomplishments).

 

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

since Cuananan didn't kill him, it is possible he came forward after Cuananan murdered Versace and his picture was all over the place.

I took it as the show making up that scene as a typical representation of what might have been going on between AC and some of his tricks, perhaps a composite of details that were gleaned from various sources; that way the audience knows what AC has been engaging in and there is no need to depict many other instances time and time again.

 

7 hours ago, starri said:

She wrote for Vanity Fair, not a local paper in the Deep South.

Ah yes, Vanity Fair's readership, that great repository of knowledge regarding sexual minorities and their various subcultures.  ;-)

That being said, I did crack a few smiles while reading Orth's book a few years ago because of her naïveté and wide-eyed wonder at that new world of sexuality she apparently was discovering from scratch. I do not recall the topological confusion on her part that you report regarding sexual roles, but I may simply have forgotten.

[WearyTraveler]

As a Venezuelan, I'm incredibly happy that Edgar Ramirez' performance is so well liked.  Go, Edgar! I think he's doing a superb job, but I'm biased, so, it's nice to see that others appreciate his work so much.

[jumper sage]

On 1/27/2018 at 10:15 AM, darkestboy said:

Bit risky of this series confirming that Gianni had HIV when the family themselves never did.

Like someone said upthread and I remember reading about it very quietly when all the hullabaloo was over with that the autopsy said he was HIV.  Don't they legally have to disclose it?

With that being said, they (the show) never really say he had HIV and many other STDs require a blood test but I can see the implication.

23 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

This was another moment that got a laugh from me. The way the guy went, "I don't know his name but he was on America's Most Wanted" and when the operator asked if he was black or white, the guy sort of shrugs and goes "the white guy who killed all the other white guys".

I laughed at that too.  Touche!

Did I catch the fashion show right?  Did Donatella's designs get no reaction and Gianni's did?  I do know she struggled with the business.  Didn't he leave the business to his niece and her mother almost ran it into the ground?  ETA my own answer - The niece owns 50%, Donatella owns 20% and his brother Santo owns 30%.  Donatello is heralded as the PR whiz.  She did attend school with Gianni.

@icemiser69 - "Are the voices in your head, calling Gloria?"   It's a damn good song lol.

Edited January 29, 2018 by jumper sage

[SPLAIN]

I am done with this show. I just can't handle the whole HIV angle. I know it is a dramatization and all, but I just can't watch it.

Even if Versace had HIV, that had nothing to do with why he was murdered.

[Aethera]

All - a reminder that you should not discuss aspects of the crime or the characters' lives that occur outside of the episode or previous episodes. Not everyone knows what happens or who dies or etc.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode!

American Crime Story Does The Hustle

The show goes back in time with two perspectives on sex and death -- and Sarah D. Bunting nerds out on the production design -- in our recap of 'Manhunt.'

[kj4ever]

On 1/27/2018 at 9:52 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

Me too. I'm also liking the portrayal of Gianni and Antonio's relationship. Ricky Martin's doing a good job, and the actors have a nice chemistry.

I have not seen Darren Criss in anything before this, but I'm not enjoying him here. I don't know if it's just his performance or the writing, or both, but his character is coming across as a big non-entity to me. I'm more interested in the people AC is interacting with (Ronnie, hell, even the hotel clerk, Miriam). Maybe the character will get more interesting as the series goes on.

A friend at work and I were talking about the series today and he said he didn't like it because he could tell the guy playing AC was acting.  He hadn't become AC, he was just acting like some kid in a high school play would act.  I think he's right, because I cannot see any charisma or redeeming qualities in this man that would make people befriend him at all.

[caracas1914]

On 1/29/2018 at 4:37 PM, SPLAIN said:

I am done with this show. I just can't handle the whole HIV angle. I know it is a dramatization and all, but I just can't watch it.

Even if Versace had HIV, that had nothing to do with why he was murdered.

 

One of the things I’m having difficulties with is seeing any connection  between Cunanan and Versace other than both were gay.    From my perspective the show is trying to somehow shoehorn parallels about them, but Versace was a gifted creative fashion  ”genius” who from all accounts worked incredibly hard to get where he was.  Even  for the fashion industry from all accounts Versace was very kind and generous to others, and despite his wealthy lifestyle, wasn’t pretentious when dealing with his peers.  He seemed comfortable in his persona and openly lived his life.    Cunanan was a delusional lying  psychopathic piece of shit serial killer with no sense of empathy towards others and who hid from others whatever truth there was about him.  So far there are no redeeming qualities in him, he’s almost just a cypher or vacuum.  I know such people exist, but I’m still waiting to see why this particular story should be told in extended miniseries length.   

[truthaboutluv]

22 minutes ago, caracas1914 said:

From my perspective the show is trying to somehow shoehorn parallels about them, but Versace was a gifted creative fashion  ”genius” who from all accounts worked incredibly hard to get where he was.  Even  for the fashion industry from all accounts Versace was very kind and generous to others, and despite his wealthy lifestyle, wasn’t pretentious when dealing with his peers.  He seemed comfortable in his persona and openly lived his life.    Cunanan was a delusional lying  psychopathic piece of shit serial killer with no sense of empathy towards others and who hid from others whatever truth there was about him.  So far there are no redeeming qualities in him, he’s almost just a cypher or vacuum.

But that is the story. It's not about a connection between the two because by all accounts there was none. Well other than Cuananan's weird obsession and later resentment of Versace because he wanted what he had - fame, acceptance, wealth - but didn't want to actually work for any of it. That is the parallel. That Versace was a man who worked hard for everything he had, even when he was already a success.  He was always creating, working on his craft and his art.  Not expecting anything to just be handed to him. Cuananan was the complete opposite in that he very much felt entitled to things he wasn't willing to work for. 

[Florinaldo]

44 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

But that is the story. It's not about a connection between the two because by all accounts there was none. Well other than Cuananan's weird obsession and later resentment of Versace because he wanted what he had - fame, acceptance, wealth - but didn't want to actually work for any of it. That is the parallel. That Versace was a man who worked hard for everything he had, even when he was already a success.  He was always creating, working on his craft and his art.  Not expecting anything to just be handed to him. Cuananan was the complete opposite in that he very much felt entitled to things he wasn't willing to work for. 

Exactly. The connection was not a personal or direct one, but the fact that GV achieved a level of success that AC felt was owed to him. From all indications it helped him focus his rensentment on the designer and choose him as an instrument for achieving fame. Them both being gay may have solidified the link in AC'S mind but it probably never was the main factor; we well never know for certain of course. The building of such a creature, from childhood to mythomaniac killer, is a process that holds much potential for a fascinating trajectory and I look forward to seeing it play out over the rest of the series, as we continue to see it depicted in reverse chronology.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Florinaldo

[caracas1914]

14 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

But that is the story. It's not about a connection between the two because by all accounts there was none. Well other than Cuananan's weird obsession and later resentment of Versace because he wanted what he had - fame, acceptance, wealth - but didn't want to actually work for any of it. That is the parallel. That Versace was a man who worked hard for everything he had, even when he was already a success.  He was always creating, working on his craft and his art.  Not expecting anything to just be handed to him. Cuananan was the complete opposite in that he very much felt entitled to things he wasn't willing to work for. 

Yes, There may be  an opposite parallel, but Versace seems like a very interesting character perse with nuanced shadings, but the Cunanan character doesn’t grab me so far because as a vacuum he’s just there.  I suppose he could be the polar opposite of any hardworking successful person.  The first episode establishes quite clearly what he is, a delusional blank; so I’ll see if anything is added to his characterization;  it’s not that he’s just a horrible human being ( some of the best or most fascinating characters in drama are villains) but for me so far it’s hard to dig anything out beyond that.

 

On a positive note, the scene with the female impersonator Donatella and Versace’s response was such a hoot.  I liked that The  creative and power struggle between Versace and his sister was displayed as well as the Donatella and Antonio friction  so it wasn’t all ideally happy in that fashion family.  The Donatella rant on Versace wanting a family ran a little hollow to me since Versace seems someone who was happy in his relationship, if he really wanted children  he could have.  Penelope Cruz accent is also a bit distracting as it doesn’t sound Italian that much, as opposed to Edgar a Ramirez’s.

 

I didn’t recognize Max Greenfield at first, I’m quite impressed with the downtrodden character he’s portraying.  He seems like someone who’s wearily been through hell and back.

On Versace; in hindsight  Its incredible now to think that a recognized fashion celebrity would live so publicly literally on a crowed Street on South Beach, I’m sure that was part of the residence’s appeal to him, sadly that wouldn’t probably happen again.

[MaryWebGirl]

6 minutes ago, caracas1914 said:

On Versace; in hindsight  Its incredible now to think that a recognized fashion celebrity would live so publicly literally on a crowed Street on South Beach, I’m sure that was part of the residence’s appeal to him, sadly that wouldn’t probably happen again.

I watched one of the extras on FX and I think it was one of the producers who commented on the fact that when they were filming at the mansion it was jarring to see how central and basically public it is, with hundreds of people wandering by every day. 

[TV Diva Queen]

On 1/29/2018 at 4:16 PM, jumper sage said:

Like someone said upthread and I remember reading about it very quietly when all the hullabaloo was over with that the autopsy said he was HIV.  Don't they legally have to disclose it?

With that being said, they (the show) never really say he had HIV and many other STDs require a blood test but I can see the implication.

I laughed at that too.  Touche!

Did I catch the fashion show right?  Did Donatella's designs get no reaction and Gianni's did?  I do know she struggled with the business.  Didn't he leave the business to his niece and her mother almost ran it into the ground?  ETA my own answer - The niece owns 50%, Donatella owns 20% and his brother Santo owns 30%.  Donatello is heralded as the PR whiz.  She did attend school with Gianni.

@icemiser69 - "Are the voices in your head, calling Gloria?"   It's a damn good song lol.

What I got out of the fashion show is Donatella wanted the models styled differently, or to be more thin.  And I think she didn't want the silver wedding dress to be last because it was so cliche.  Who know?  I can't understand her for nothing and I'm really good with broken English too.  All four grandparents from Greece and Italy and I still can understand Donatella.  I'm going to have to surrender and put on the CC. 

[anyanka323]

On 1/25/2018 at 9:38 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

To me, the only thing about Penelope Cruz that looks like the real Donatella is the blonde hair and eyebrows.

To be fair, casting Donatella is tough because of how artificial she looked at the time of her brother's death.  The other great book on Versace, Deborah Ball's The House of Versace, wrote with the cooperation of Santo and Donatella Versace, as well as Antonio d'Amico, seems to be the other source the show is drawing from.  In that, Donatella's public persona as a camp goddess was well established by the time of her brother's death.  Maya Rudolph's impersonation of her on SNL is something that Donatella herself seems to be fine with, considering that she's friends with Maya Rudolph. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, anyanka323 said:

To be fair, casting Donatella is tough because of how artificial she looked at the time of her brother's death.  The other great book on Versace, Deborah Ball's The House of Versace, wrote with the cooperation of Santo and Donatella Versace, as well as Antonio d'Amico, seems to be the other source the show is drawing from.  In that, Donatella's public persona as a camp goddess was well established by the time of her brother's death.  Maya Rudolph's impersonation of her on SNL is something that Donatella herself seems to be fine with, considering that she's friends with Maya Rudolph. 

I don't think she looked like a caricature until well after Gianni's death. Yes, she had the bleached blonde hair and dark tan, but her face still looked relatively normal This article has a photo of Donatella at the first Versace how after Gianni's death and she just looks blonde.

This article was written the year that Gianni was murdered and has a photo of Donatella (it's actually a pretty interesting article about Donatella, how her role in the company changed, and her relationship with Gianni). Heh, in this interview she says the blonde hair is a weave.

Edited February 1, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[J-Man]

Is there any historical basis for the scene where he picked up the "john" on the beach and went back to his hotel room? Or was that just put in there to show how he earned money and to demonstrate his particular fetishes? I'm assuming that if he indeed existed, the "victim" never came forward.

[Florinaldo]

2 hours ago, J-Man said:

Is there any historical basis for the scene where he picked up the "john" on the beach and went back to his hotel room? Or was that just put in there to show how he earned money and to demonstrate his particular fetishes? I'm assuming that if he indeed existed, the "victim" never came forward.

I would opt for the latter option; they probably needed to have a representative depiction of his activities and to give viewers some flavor of his "professional" life. I do not recall such a specific Miami encounter being recounted in Orth's book.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Florinaldo

[Primetimer]

The show goes back in time with two perspectives on sex and death -- and Sarah D. Bunting nerds out on the production design -- in our recap of 'Manhunt.'

View the full article

[candle96]

On 1/25/2018 at 1:08 PM, bmoore4026 said:

Well, pack up the babies and grab the old ladies because this show just earned two Emmys right here for best acting by a lead actor.  And I don't know how so many of you are not liking Penelope Cruz as Donatella, I think she's fine.  I mean, it's hard to divorce any portrayal of Donatella and not immediately think of Maya Rudolph impersonation.  I mean, it would have been awesome if they could have gotten her, but that would have turned this into a comedy and that wouldn't have been good.

I have a couple of gay e-mail buddies who would love to have Darren Criss bound around the room in a Speedo, but I'm fairly certain without the extreme breath control involved.

I can see where Donatella was coming from because those clothes at the fashion show were just so...dumpy looking.  It wasn't the models (who I'm pretty certain where guys in drag), it was the clothes themselves.  They lacked flair and elegance.  Gianni might as well have dumped cloth on them - it would have looked better.

Nope those were girls. Sadly, that's what models looked like in the early to mid 90s. The pale, androgynous waif look was in.

I also wasn't a fan of the clothes in that fashion show, but they struck true to me as 90s - lots of black and neutral colors, the crosses. That gold slip dress was pretty iconic.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, candle96 said:

The pale, androgynous waif look was in.

Heroin chic, it was called.

[bmoore4026]

10 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Heroin chic, it was called.

Thank Christ Gisele Bündchen came along and her type of supermodel is the in thing now.

[Duke2801]

On 1/25/2018 at 2:24 PM, icemiser69 said:

IMO, "Gloria", is like nails on a chalkboard.  Horribly grating music.  Outside of that, I did like the music selections for this episode.

Was that really Phil Collins and Phillip Bailey singing "Easy Lover"?  It might just be me, but to me, it didn't sound like the original.  It was close, but it kind of sounded a little off for some reason.

Ha, and here I was totally loving it.  As a child of the 80s, Gloria was my jam!  Well, one of them.  

Despite stellar actors in season one (Sterling, Sarah, etc), I could not for the life of me get into it.  But I'm totally enamored with season 2.  I don't know if it is because mostly all of this information is new to me (I did not know much beyond the fact that GV was murdered in front of his South Beach mansion) or what.  But yeah, I'm digging it.  

Love the man portraying Versace. I also didn't watch Glee so I had no preconceived notions about Darren C, and think he is quite mesmerizing and disturbing as Andrew.  

On that note, when this season is over, I think I will go back and try to watch season 1.  It was so well-received by audiences and critics, that I feel like I must have missed something (or maybe I wasn't in the right mind set at the time).  

[heatherchandler]

On 1/31/2018 at 11:13 AM, MaryWebGirl said:

I watched one of the extras on FX and I think it was one of the producers who commented on the fact that when they were filming at the mansion it was jarring to see how central and basically public it is, with hundreds of people wandering by every day. 

You would be walking along the shops and cafes and all of a sudden, you are in front of his house.  I was surprised at how it is in the middle of everything.