S11.E10: The Confidence Erosion

[Bort]

Quote

Sheldon and Amy try to eliminate stress from wedding planning by applying math to the process. Also, Koothrappali “breaks up” with Wolowitz after realizing his best friend is actually hurting his confidence.

[Spartan Girl]

I was on Raj's side. Friends can bust each other once in a while, but Howard bordered on being an asshole. I'm a little sad that this will be an ongoing storyline. I do hope they make up soon.

Sheldon was a lot better this week. I loved the mix and match wedding planning game he and Amy created, even if it was bound to backfire. Still, he deserves credit for wanting to give Amy a big wedding instead of going through the civil service ceremony.

Amy's dress was cute, though.

[anna0852]

Raj is hella hot and should never straighten his hair again.

I though the wedding planning scenes were very sweet, even with the fighting. Loved how they were using a computer program to be truly be fair about who got to pick which item. 

Whoever wrote for Sheldon this week needs to keep writing for him. The scene at City Hall was perfection. 

It's really hard to push back again the status quo in a friendship and while I hope Raj and Howard are able to eventually move forward, Howard really did need to hear that he was being mean and disrespectful. What would he think if one of Halley or Fetuses friendship spoke to one his children that way? And I'm glad that Penny was implicated as well. You could see the realization on her face when she complimented Leonard and he instinctively though something was wrong. I hope that lesson sunk in for her.

Loved that Raj rocked it at the planetarium and that Amy kept Sheldon's mouth shut.

[thebigboot]

Sheldon is horrifically disrespectful and gets away with it. How is Howard any different?

[CleoCaesar]

Hopefully this will be the start of Raj having messy curly hair and dressing like a normal person. The shtick that he dresses like a 90-year-old for no reason is about 10 seasons too old. It doesn't fit the character at all.

[shapeshifter]

12 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Howard bordered on being an asshole. I'm a little sad that this will be an ongoing storyline. I do hope they make up soon

It would be nice if this arc ended with everyone being nicer.

[Driad]

Fun to see that Raj still has The Desk, even though it fulfilled its purpose long ago.  And yes to his "natural" hair and self-confidence.

[roamyn]

I like that Howard showed up, and didn't draw attention to the fact he was there.  And NO WAY is it Howard's fault that Raj has no confidence.  He's ALWAYS been a wimp; couldn't even talk to women for the longest time.  He's also TOO needy, and that doesn't go away with a date, new job, hairstyle & clothes.

Yes, Howard does seem to find Raj's butt for most of his barbed arrows, but he does it for everyone.  I think it went on for so long, that it became excessive.

Where the F was the Tiara?!  Come on Amy...don't let us down.

[chocolatine]

I agree that Howard is mean to Raj much of the time, but I'm not going to lie, when Raj turned up in the black suit *and* a black tie, the funeral director joke crossed my mind as well. Maybe my friends should be taking a break from me.

I was more sad about Leonard being suspicious of Penny complimenting him. Those two are supposed to be the loves of each other's lives.

My unpopular opinion is that I wish Sheldon and Amy had gotten married at city hall. Amy looked beautiful in her suit, and I would have liked to see one couple on TV not get consumed by the wedding-industrial complex.

Edited December 8, 2017 by chocolatine

[chitowngirl]

48 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Where the F was the Tiara?!  Come on Amy...don't let us down.

Ha! That was the exact thing I said to the Mister-She should be wearing her tiara!!

[Driad]

5 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

My unpopular opinion is that I wish Sheldon and Amy had gotten married at city hall

Not unpopular here!  They could have thrown a party later, and people could wear costumes if they wanted.

50 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Where the F was the Tiara?!

Yes!  Some books say that only married women should wear tiaras, so Amy was about to get her big chance.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Amy looked wonderful in that pink lace suit. 

Sheldon and Amy should have told someone at City Hall that they had changed their minds. 

I didn't understand the cork pop joke. Was the act or sound that intrusive? Everybody knows that Penny likes to drink. Raj and Leonard were still discussing something serious. Was that all?

Edited December 8, 2017 by hoodooznoodooz

[UncleChuck]

Quote

Raj is hella hot and should never straighten his hair again.

Kunal Nayyar's hair is naturally curly.  He explained once on some talk show (can't remember which one) that TPTB straightened his hair so that Raj's hair would look the same in every scene, even those that were shot out of sequence.  It was too hard to keep the messy, curly hair looking the same over and over again.

[OtterMommy]

This was one of those episodes that, for me, ended far better than it started.  The Raj/Howard fight was so typical when it started, but the show actually handled it quite well.   I think the was the first time I've found Raj interesting in ages.  Sheldon and his vindictive and passive aggressive "negotiating" with Amy was not fun to watch (well the computer program bit was, but it turned when Sheldon tried to manipulate things), but then the show ended on what I thought was a great high point for them--although I agree with @chocolatine that I wish they had gotten married at City Hall.  I have this fear that Sheldon will be back to his petty self in the next episode.

[PinkRibbons]

Sheldon and Amy have either got to let go of the idea of a theme wedding or change it to a theme they both love, like say, I dunno...science?

Kunal and Simon (at the end) were looking foxy in this episode. The color of the Mayim's suit was lovely and so flattering, but I hope they drop the usual blockiness of shape just for the actual formal wedding dress. Mayim's curvy, not actually square-shaped the way most of her costumes make her look. The suit was pretty but still kind of heavy-looking on her, which I'm sure was intentionally in keeping with Amy's wardrobe.

[chitowngirl]

I know the answer is because Melissa wasn't really there-but if you were going to have a girls night that is just hanging out at someone's house, wouldn't you go to the house of the person who is on bed rest?

[MissLucas]

Well that was excellent! I'm so glad we finally got a decent plot for Raj and that the writers remembered that he's also a scientist. I really, really hope we get more planetarium stories and that both the curly hair and the new wardrobe are permanent changes (not that he needs to wear a suit 24/7 but ditch the grandpa clothes). As for the hair - I take character development over curl continuity.

And while it's true that Howard can't be blamed for all of Raj's confidence problems it's also true that their relationship has become stale and toxic and is in need of a change. I'm glad it wasn't all resolved by the end of the episode. As for similarities to Penny/Leonard: they are there and the show was right to point them out. However it's also true that Leonard gets a huge confidence boost from having married out of his league - the show has made that point several times (even if the statement itself is problematic).

Amy's coat and skirt combo was cute, but yeah - we need to see that tiara! The writing for Sheldon was great as pointed out above. There were still traces of obnoxious Sheldon from the past but we also got some great character development.

[hoodooznoodooz]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

 

And while it's true that Howard can't be blamed for all of Raj's confidence problems it's also true that their relationship has become stale and toxic and is in need of a change. I'm glad it wasn't all resolved by the end of the episode. As for similarities to Penny/Leonard: they are there and the show was right to point them out. However it's also true that Leonard gets a huge confidence boost from having married out of his league - the show has made that point several times (even if the statement itself is problematic).

 

I agree that he gets a huge confidence boost. It probably must be terrific bumping into someone from high school, who sees that he was able to marry this cute blonde. But, in my opinion, when someone has a chance to observe how she talks to him, it's not so terrific for Leonard's "image" or self-esteem. 

[PinkRibbons]

Mayim Bialik on filming the episode.

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I know the answer is because Melissa wasn't really there-but if you were going to have a girls night that is just hanging out at someone's house, wouldn't you go to the house of the person who is on bed rest?

Maybe...but then Bernadette couldn't catch up on The Crown while her friends tried to socialize with her.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

And while it's true that Howard can't be blamed for all of Raj's confidence problems it's also true that their relationship has become stale and toxic and is in need of a change. I'm glad it wasn't all resolved by the end of the episode. As for similarities to Penny/Leonard: they are there and the show was right to point them out. However it's also true that Leonard gets a huge confidence boost from having married out of his league - the show has made that point several times (even if the statement itself is problematic).

It is also an issue that, in this group of 4 characters, 2 of them are pretty terrible to at least some of the others.  Howard has always been cutting towards Raj--and, when it suited him, Leonard and Sheldon.  Sheldon, of course, is consistently rude to everyone.  We've had 11 seasons of Leonard trying to stand up to Sheldon and...Raj did it more effectively with Howard in one episode.

[anna0852]

I throw Bernadette on that list too. She's been pretty consistently awful for a couple of Seasons now. Like tonight, her friends are making a real effort to ensure she's included and she can't be bothered to pay attention but instead watch The Crown. If she doesn't want to participate, that's fine but don't treat your friends like that. If you're going to agree to participate then participate.

[OtterMommy]

Just now, anna0852 said:

I throw Bernadette on that list too. She's been pretty consistently awful for a couple of Seasons now. Like tonight, her friends are making a real effort to ensure she's included and she can't be bothered to pay attention but instead watch The Crown. If she doesn't want to participate, that's fine but don't treat your friends like that. If you're going to agree to participate then participate.

Definitely...however I think the difference is that Penny and Amy tend to handle it better than the guys do.  By that I mean that when Bernadette starts with the cutting remarks they don't (at least not usually) internalize it.  Penny never seems to feel the need to prove herself to Bernadette, and I can't recall Amy doing so either (although I do think she does with Penny sometimes).  This is in no way to excuse Bernadette--I'm actually really tired of her "I'm the little one and you wont expect it when I bite your head off" act, but I think it is a fundamental difference between these two groups of characters.

[proserpina65]

14 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Hopefully this will be the start of Raj having messy curly hair and dressing like a normal person. The shtick that he dresses like a 90-year-old for no reason is about 10 seasons too old. It doesn't fit the character at all.

Plus he was totally hot.  He used to wear his hair natural in the first season, and he looked so much better that way.

11 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

Kunal Nayyar's hair is naturally curly.  He explained once on some talk show (can't remember which one) that TPTB straightened his hair so that Raj's hair would look the same in every scene, even those that were shot out of sequence.  It was too hard to keep the messy, curly hair looking the same over and over again.

Too bad, because it's so much more attractive that way.  Yes, I'm shallow.

[iMonrey]

I'm kind of torn about Raj because while Howard does make fun of him a lot, Raj usually brings it on himself. The dude's just weird, regardless of Howard's attitude towards him, and I don't see him getting less weird without Howard in his life. If anything he's prone to be more weird, because every time he gets too full of himself he becomes a jackass, like that time he was included in some magazine. He's also been terrible with the few girlfriends he's had, and that has nothing to do with Howard either.

Quote

My unpopular opinion is that I wish Sheldon and Amy had gotten married at city hall. Amy looked beautiful in her suit, and I would have liked to see one couple on TV not get consumed by the wedding-industrial complex.

Agreed. The wedding industry is such a money sucking racket it makes my head spin.

[proserpina65]

56 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm kind of torn about Raj because while Howard does make fun of him a lot, Raj usually brings it on himself. The dude's just weird, regardless of Howard's attitude towards him, and I don't see him getting less weird without Howard in his life.

Isn't this the justification of every bully who's ever picked on the weird kid?

[CinAZ]

I agree that Raj becomes a jerk at times..he was a complete ass when he was one of People’s people to watch or whatever he was. And he kept reminding everyone that he was seeing 2 woman at the same time by obnoxiously ‘complaining’ about who’s bra he found...  and he does bring a lot of the teasing on himself... remember the belt buckles he made for Howard and him to sword fight with?? He makes it easy to tease him. But that doesn’t make it right. It is nice to see Raj stand up for himself. I hope he gets a normal steady GF.

So does this mean Raj isn’t working at the university any longer? Or is the planetarium job going to be forgotten...

Shelton was being a jerk about the wedding, wanting to make it miserable for Amy out of spite is unreal.  I am glad he came to his senses. Amy looked adorable. I am glad they are letting Amy have her wedding day. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by CinAZ

[proserpina65]

21 minutes ago, CinAZ said:

So does this mean Raj isn’t working at the university any longer? Or is the planetarium job going to be forgotten...

It might be a good thing for both the character and the show if he wasn't working at the university.  Could be more interesting.

[hnygrl]

17 hours ago, thebigboot said:

Sheldon is horrifically disrespectful and gets away with it. How is Howard any different?

Because Howard (unlike Sheldon) has people in his life who are no longer willing to put up with it. having Howard called out on his abhorrent treatment of his best friend was a long time coming. Loved that Penny "got" that the way she treated her HUSBAND was no better than the way his MOM treated him, or how Howard treated Raj. I really hope it sticks because I'm really sick of her.

This storyline can't go very much farther can it? They are both a part of the same social circle so there's absolutely no avoiding each other.

However, with Howard married with children? It's not realistic that He an Raj would remain unnaturally close. Wouldn't he transfer all that energy to his bedridden wife and little girl? He literally wouldn't have TIME for the gang anymore.

I kept wondering why they didn't just hire RAJ to plan their wedding? He'd really do it up proper.

[Katy M]

16 hours ago, chocolatine said:

My unpopular opinion is that I wish Sheldon and Amy had gotten married at city hall. Amy looked beautiful in her suit, and I would have liked to see one couple on TV not get consumed by the wedding-industrial complex.

Bernadette and Howard got married on the roof and didn't Leonard and Penny get married in Vegas?  If Amy and Sheldon have a big wedding, they will be the only couple to do so on this show.

[thebigboot]

12 minutes ago, hnygrl said:

Because Howard (unlike Sheldon) has people in his life who are no longer willing to put up with it. having Howard called out on his abhorrent treatment of his best friend was a long time coming. Loved that Penny "got" that the way she treated her HUSBAND was no better than the way his MOM treated him, or how Howard treated Raj. I really hope it sticks because I'm really sick of her.

This storyline can't go very much farther can it? They are both a part of the same social circle so there's absolutely no avoiding each other.

However, with Howard married with children? It's not realistic that He an Raj would remain unnaturally close. Wouldn't he transfer all that energy to his bedridden wife and little girl? He literally wouldn't have TIME for the gang anymore.

I kept wondering why they didn't just hire RAJ to plan their wedding? He'd really do it up proper.

But that’s my biggest problem, Sheldon’s coddled with his horrific behavior. Last time I checked Howard wasn’t attempting to torture people when he didn’t get his way. Nor was he attempting to control their bodily fluids. I guess I don’t get why they’re so forgiving to Sheldon as bad as he’s been.

[hnygrl]

Me either thebigfoot, me either. The only reason I can come up with is "that's just the way the showrunners want it" or..."reasons..."

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, thebigboot said:

But that’s my biggest problem, Sheldon’s coddled with his horrific behavior. Last time I checked Howard wasn’t attempting to torture people when he didn’t get his way. Nor was he attempting to control their bodily fluids. I guess I don’t get why they’re so forgiving to Sheldon as bad as he’s been.

My theory would be that they just treat Sheldon as a child who lives in the neighborhood and needs taking care of.  Raj expects something more from someone he considers to be a friend.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Katy M

[Kanner]

Thank you episode. Two of my pet peeves were addressed. 1) That Howard is some kind of victim when Sheldon rags on him. They all rag on each other and Howard gives as good as he gets. 2) If you have an issue with something say something. I am a Sheldon  fan but it really annoys me when the others just roll over for him. While Sheldon is responsible for his actions they helped to create a monster.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Kanner said:

2) If you have an issue with something say something. 

I wonder if this episode was inspired by the #metoo movement. A lot of the "teasing " on this show could easily be considered harassment. Heck, they've even said so in the scripts. Remember Howard greeting the HR lady by asking how were her husband and the kids, implying that he'd been called in so frequently for sexual harassment complaints that he'd probably overhead bits when she was arranging her schedule, or he'd crossed paths with them outside her office.

[LoneHaranguer]

6 hours ago, hnygrl said:

I kept wondering why they didn't just hire RAJ to plan their wedding?

Or why they were going to have a stranger marry them at city hall, instead of Raj, Penny, and/or Leonard, who (along with them) officiated for Howard and Bernie.

[DrSpaceman73]

I side more with Howard than Raj. 

Blaming someone else for your lack of confidence if lame.  If it bothers you, say something.  Guy friends are different than girls.  What howard does is not worse than what some of my friends of said to me over the years. 

Plus this is a guy that LITERALLY COULD NOT TALK TO GIRLS WITHOUT ALCOHOL for years.  Not just shy around them, but literally could not say a word.  That's about as extreme a social anxiety as you can get. And two points on that :

1.  Who did he rely on during that time to relay his words to girls?  Howard, who went along with it and helped him out the whole time for years until that ended. 

2.  You blame Howard for that happening, not being able to talk to girls?  Nothing in the show's history has ever indicated that was the case.  Seems to be all on Raj. 

Raj also accepted money for years from his dad rather than making his own way on his own salary.  Not exactly the signs of a confident man to begin with

I liked the Sheldon and Amy story though.  Too bad we couldn't see the wedding they first put together, the blend of Sci Fi and Little House on the Prarie

[BookWitch]

The women on this show are crazy. I'd love a Klingon or Star Wars wedding! That would be so cool!

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, BookWitch said:

I'd love a Klingon or Star Wars wedding! That would be so cool!

How about Little House On the Prairie style clothing and modes of transportation with light sabers and Klingon language vows?

[rmontro]

17 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I know the answer is because Melissa wasn't really there-but if you were going to have a girls night that is just hanging out at someone's house, wouldn't you go to the house of the person who is on bed rest?

Maybe Sheldon should lend her his "Mobile Virtual Presence Device" robot thingie that he built in season four, episode two:  The Cruciferous Vegetable Amplification.

I wasn't clear on whether or not Rag is quitting his job at the university for the planetarium or if he's just trying to earn extra money.

I don't blame Raj for steering clear of Howard.  You can't argue with results:  Things have been going well for him since he got away from him.  The other guys didn't cause Raj's selective mutism, but they didn't do much to encourage him either.  If he expressed interest in someone, they would just shut him down with "Shut up, you can't even talk to women".

Seeing the favorable comments here on Raj's curly hair reminds me of the early days of the show.  I remember girls saying that Raj was the most attractive of the four guys.

[ForReal]

This was an interesting side of Raj, but I always remember (particularly having just recently seen the episode) when he cruelly teased Leonard about Penny and Priya getting friendly when Howard's mother was in the hospital. Raj has just as deep a mean streak as Howard or Sheldon; he just doesn't show it as often. So that lessens my sympathy for him quite a bit, although it doesn't hurt for him to push back against Howard, because the way Howard uses him for a punching bag is getting a little old.

[Driad]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

How about Little House On the Prairie style clothing and modes of transportation with light sabers and Klingon language vows?

They could set it up as a convention of time travelers, like when Sheldon went in his Star Trek uniform to "study" the medieval fair.  

[roamyn]

1 hour ago, ForReal said:

This was an interesting side of Raj, but I always remember (particularly having just recently seen the episode) when he cruelly teased Leonard about Penny and Priya getting friendly when Howard's mother was in the hospital. Raj has just as deep a mean streak as Howard or Sheldon; he just doesn't show it as often. So that lessens my sympathy for him quite a bit, although it doesn't hurt for him to push back against Howard, because the way Howard uses him for a punching bag is getting a little old.

And remember the episode where drinks in Penny’s apt, and treats her like a menial, disparaging her apt and demanding she get him more beer?  

Yeah, Raj is not as nice as he seems.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Driad said:

They could set it up as a convention of time travelers, like when Sheldon went in his Star Trek uniform to "study" the medieval fair.  

Yeah, I think they should just stick to their original plan and everything Amy is in charge of will be LHOTP and everything Sheldon is in charge of will be Star Trek.  It would be cool.   He'll wear a Star Trek uniform, she'll wear a dress like Laura wore when she married Almonzo.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

Isn't this the justification of every bully who's ever picked on the weird kid?

No, I'm not condoning or rationalizing the way Howard treats Raj. What I'm saying is that I don't think that's why Raj is the way he is. Separating himself from Howard isn't really going to accomplish anything. Look how he foolishly dumped his girlfriend when that other girl started showing him some attention. And the way his mind immediately jumps to marriage and children. His relationship failures have absolutely nothing to do with Howard. So when I say I'm torn, I'm not saying maybe it's a good thing Howard teases him. I'm saying even if you remove Howard from the equation, Raj is still a weirdo. Raj/this episode seems to be saying Howard is the reason Raj is a weirdo. 

[Gulftastic]

I always thought the show would end with all four of the guys paired off, but after this week, I'm thinking Raj's end story might be different.

If they are letting him have his naturally curly hair and dress normally, it's pretty obvious he's a hot guy. I'm wondering if somebody in TV could spot him doing his thing at the planetarium and offer him a chance to present a TV show. 

[DrSpaceman73]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

No, I'm not condoning or rationalizing the way Howard treats Raj. What I'm saying is that I don't think that's why Raj is the way he is. Separating himself from Howard isn't really going to accomplish anything. Look how he foolishly dumped his girlfriend when that other girl started showing him some attention. And the way his mind immediately jumps to marriage and children. His relationship failures have absolutely nothing to do with Howard. So when I say I'm torn, I'm not saying maybe it's a good thing Howard teases him. I'm saying even if you remove Howard from the equation, Raj is still a weirdo. Raj/this episode seems to be saying Howard is the reason Raj is a weirdo. 

Yes this is my thinking as well and the point I was making before

Raj has done plenty himself to screw things up with Howard not having a thing to do with it.  Blaming it all, or most of it, on Howard is just seems to be a convenient and easy excuse as to why he has trouble with women and other parts of his life. 

[MissLucas]

I don't think the show made the point that Howard is responsible for everything that went wrong in Raj's life. But it's a factor in keeping Raj back - just like Raj willingly accepting his father's money was a factor contributing to his often childish behavior. Of all the characters on the show he's the one most stuck (Stuart is regressing). Compare season one Howard to season one Raj. The only dramatic change in Raj's life until this season was finally being able to talk to women. In the meantime Howard dropped most of his skeevy ways, became an astronaut, got into a serious relationship, got married and is now soon a father of two. Raj is finally starting to address the many problems in his life. Step number one was shouldering his financial burdens. The next step was identifying toxic relationships undermining him. And there's no arguing that Howard has to take pole position. Even if the others mock Raj too it's worse with Howard because he is his best friend. Raj insisting on a change of pace - and doing this rather drastically by taking a break from the relationship - is actually a healthy step for both of them. I hope it sticks and I hope the show keeps these slow but interesting developments for Raj up.

Edited December 9, 2017 by MissLucas

[TurtlePower]

49 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I don't think the show made the point that Howard is responsible for everything that went wrong in Raj's life. But it's a factor in keeping Raj back - just like Raj willingly accepting his father's money was a factor contributing to his often childish behavior. Of all the characters on the show he's the one most stuck (Stuart is regressing). Compare season one Howard to season one Raj. The only dramatic change in Raj's life until this season was finally being able to talk to women. In the meantime Howard dropped most of his skeevy ways, became an astronaut, got into a serious relationship, got married and is now soon a father of two. Raj is finally starting to address the many problems in his life. Step number one was shouldering his financial burdens. The next step was identifying toxic relationships undermining him. And there's no arguing that Howard has to take pole position. Even if the others mock Raj too it's worse with Howard because he is his best friend. Raj insisting on a change of pace - and doing this rather drastically by taking a break from the relationship - is actually a healthy step for both of them. I hope it sticks and I hope the show keeps these slow but interesting developments for Raj up.

I think it's a good step for Raj. Of all the characters, he really is the one "most stuck", as you put it. I was wondering this last year, what ARE they going to do with Raj's character? He needs some serious development. 

Totally love the new hair. Hope they keep that for him. 

[Twilight Man]

On 12/7/2017 at 10:28 PM, chocolatine said:

I would have liked to see one couple...........not get consumed by the wedding-industrial complex.

 

On 12/8/2017 at 11:51 AM, iMonrey said:

Agreed. The wedding industry is such a money sucking racket it makes my head spin.

It looks like some people have been watching "Adam Ruins Everything".