S02.E07: Matrimonium

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's Epic Old-School Recap of the episode!

 

It's Holy Matri-moan-y In The Crown S02.E07

And only some of it is sexual; the rest is MAN PAIN. Of course.

[CousinAmy]

3 hours ago, SoWindsor said:

The coronation was recorded though — are you saying they didn’t film certain parts of it?

I think the point is the cameras were not so easy to maneuver - they were set up at certain points to record rather large vistas, but couldn't swing around and point at some tiny figures yards away all of a sudden. 

[Clanstarling]

I believe it was the "holy" part - the anointing of oil and such - that wasn't broadcast.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I believe it was the "holy" part - the anointing of oil and such - that wasn't broadcast.

Yep, part of the anointing involved putting oil on her chest near her bosom and I believe that those in charge felt that this would not be appropriate for broadcast back in the day.  Even for spectators within the Abbey, I believe this occurs behind a screen for privacy.

[secnarf]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Yep, part of the anointing involved putting oil on her chest near her bosom and I believe that those in charge felt that this would not be appropriate for broadcast back in the day.  Even for spectators within the Abbey, I believe this occurs behind a screen for privacy.

Is there a screen for privacy for this part of the coronation of a King, as well?

[doodlebug]

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 6:03 PM, secnarf said:

Is there a screen for privacy for this part of the coronation of a King, as well?

At George VI coronation, some filming was done but the anointing and communion were deliberately not filmed and took place behind the choir screen; so, I guess the answer is that yes, even male monarchs are not anointed in view of the entire Abbey. 

[Hanahope]

OTOH, you can feel bad for both Margaret and Tony, but they both decided to wallow in their misery instead of rising above it.  They deserved each other.

it must have been hard for the queen who wanted her sister to be happy but knew she was making a big mistake.

i like the title, matrimony and pandemonium mash. 

That birth , ugh.  It’s a wonder more babies weren’t hurt by that method, or women.

[AnnieBeez]

2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

OTOH, you can feel bad for both Margaret and Tony, but they both decided to wallow in their misery instead of rising above it.  They deserved each other.

it must have been hard for the queen who wanted her sister to be happy but knew she was making a big mistake.

i like the title, matrimony and pandemonium mash. 

That birth , ugh.  It’s a wonder more babies weren’t hurt by that method, or women.

I can't bear to watch forceps births. Many babies WERE injured by forceps births in the 1950s and 60s, at least. I met adults who'd  suffered brain damage from it when I volunteered in a group home in the early 80s. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by PuhLeeze

[MissLucas]

On 6.1.2018 at 0:03 AM, secnarf said:

Is there a screen for privacy for this part of the coronation of a King, as well?

As others have said, yes there is. The anointment takes place beneath a canopy designed for this purpose not for modesty reasons but because  this part of the ritual is considered to be sacred (or intimate) and not meant for the public gaze.

[J-Man]

I was really upset that we didn't get a scene of a bunch of underlings running around yelling "The Royal Water has broken!"

[Aliferously]

Best part of this episode was the Queen Mum heading up a conga line, and Elizabeth doing a dignified eye roll as she hops by.

Quote

Seriously. What kind of 44-year-old man goes for a 19-year-old? I find grown men who diddles teenagers pretty suspect. It's not quite pedophilia, but it's still kind of skeevy. I know it was a different time, but come on, even the old-school moustaches thought it was weird.

That and he'd known for her for a few years. So did he hire her at age fourteen or was she a daughter of someone he knew?

I didn't think it was strange that Philip did not attend the birth. Not like he would have been of much use while she slept. 

[Roseanna]

Quote

Seriously. What kind of 44-year-old man goes for a 19-year-old? I find grown men who diddles teenagers pretty suspect. It's not quite pedophilia, but it's still kind of skeevy. I know it was a different time, but come on, even the old-school moustaches thought it was weird.

Well, Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer fell in love with Maria von Wedemeyer when he was 36 and she was 18. On the basis on their letters, Love letter from Cell 92, they were pretty equal. 

Bonhoeffer was of executed for resistance against Hitler, so we can't know whether their marriage would have succeeded. But his best friend Eberhard Bethge well in love with Bonhoeffer's niece when he was 32 and she was 16 and they were happily married until he died at the age of 90.

[red12]

On 3/11/2018 at 1:33 PM, Roseanna said:

Well, Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer fell in love with Maria von Wedemeyer when he was 36 and she was 18. On the basis on their letters, Love letter from Cell 92, they were pretty equal. 

Bonhoeffer was of executed for resistance against Hitler, so we can't know whether their marriage would have succeeded. But his best friend Eberhard Bethge well in love with Bonhoeffer's niece when he was 32 and she was 16 and they were happily married until he died at the age of 90.

And the point we are to gather from these historical events?

[SWLinPHX]

11 hours ago, red12 said:

And the point we are to gather from these historical events?

That it's never too young to get married?

[Roseanna]

On ‎14‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 10:51 PM, red12 said:

And the point we are to gather from these historical events?

Well, it was answer to this:

On ‎21‎.‎12‎.‎2017 at 8:13 AM, Bec said:

Seriously. What kind of 44-year-old man goes for a 19-year-old? I find grown men who diddles teenagers pretty suspect. It's not quite pedophilia, but it's still kind of skeevy.

I don't think one can give general judgments like that.

There are people who are mentally adults at 19, and some who aren't at 44.    

[magdalene]

I find these episodes featuring Margaret very compelling. This one was no exception. I don't believe that Snowdon was the villain in that marriage. I have serious doubt that Margaret would have been happy with anybody, including the man she had to give up for the Crown. Maybe happiness was not in her emotional make-up.

Snowdon certainly had a very interesting life and career.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2017/04/remembering-antony-armstrong-jones-the-first-earl-of-snowdon

I find it striking that the Royal family remained close to him after the marriage dissolved. For example he did the official portrait for the Queen's 80th birthday.

Edited April 20, 2018 by magdalene

[magdalene]

On 4/16/2018 at 5:58 AM, Roseanna said:

Seriously. What kind of 44-year-old man goes for a 19-year-old? I find grown men who diddles teenagers pretty suspect. It's not quite pedophilia, but it's still kind of skeevy.

I think it's a cultural thing that in general people are taken aback by it now. I fully admit I have a sentiment against it.

In the good old days - like the 19th century for example - middle-aged men married teenage girls all the time and nobody batted an eye lash. I guess the more the patriarchal the society the more you will find older men choosing very young women.

Men and women also used to grow up much faster in earlier generations.  My mother married my father barely out of her teens - he was in his early twenties - but she was very much an emotional grown-up. While young women now my mothers age then often seem very girly and immature to me.

Edited April 20, 2018 by magdalene

[Roseanna]

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 1:47 AM, magdalene said:

I think it's a cultural thing that in general people are taken aback by it now. I fully admit I have a sentiment against it.

In the good old days - like the 19th century for example - middle-aged men married teenage girls all the time and nobody batted an eye lash. I guess the more the patriarchal the society the more you will find older men choosing very young women.

Men and women also used to grow up much faster in earlier generations.  My mother married my father barely out of her teens - he was in his early twenties - but she was very much an emotional grown-up. While young women now my mothers age then often seem very girly and immature to me.

The quation you chose wasn't written by me but Bec.

It's true that formerly middle-aged men often married young girls because, if men didn't inherit a fortune, they had first study, make a career and earn enough to keep a wife and children. Marriage was more a economy business than today. 

But also widows could marry younger men. If a farmer died, his widow had to remarry because there were men and women's job in the farm. If she had got a good hired man, he could make an ultimatum: I will leave, if we don't marry.  

Also, there was a system in Sweden and Finland that if a priest died, the congregation willingly choose a new priest who promised to marry the former priest's widow or daughter and thus save the family from poverty.

Unlike one could presume, a child outside wedlock didn't put a servant in the unfavorable situation in the marriage market because the most important thing was an ability to work hard. If she had savings in her 30ies, she was regarded as a catch and often chose a younger man.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

Loved the cute scene with Elizabeth and Phillip where he was asking what it is like to be pregnant. I also appreciate that he ranks her toes as a top feature ... if I had to rate my features, my feet, toes, and  ankles would be high up there. 

His rant about Tony being welcome into the family was enjoyable as well.

Scene with Elizabeth, her secretary, and Tommy Lascelles cracked me up!  Oh my!  Was she wearing her pearls ... it was certainly a situation that warranted clutching them.

[Brookside]

I want to know how Margaret got on the motorbike in that skirt.

[sugarbaker design]

I know it's been a while since this episode was originally available for viewing, but does anyone remember the one thing Margaret demanded after AAJ proposed?

I know I'm quite late to the party, but I've replayed the scene countless times, and for the life of me I can't understand what she's saying.

Edited July 23, 2019 by sugarbaker design

[Minivanessa]

15 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I know it's been a while since this episode was originally available for viewing, but does anyone remember the one thing Margaret demanded after AAJ proposed?

I know I'm quite late to the party, but I've replayed the scene countless times, and for the life of me I can't understand what she's saying.

I don't know but tonight I'll look at it with closed captions and see if I can figure it out. 

Because, I love your username so much. 😍

[AZChristian]

20 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I know it's been a while since this episode was originally available for viewing, but does anyone remember the one thing Margaret demanded after AAJ proposed?

I know I'm quite late to the party, but I've replayed the scene countless times, and for the life of me I can't understand what she's saying.

I watch everything with closed captioning, so I queued it up to that scene.  She made him promise "Not to hurt me."

[Minivanessa]

2 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I watch everything with closed captioning, so I queued it up to that scene.  She made him promise "Not to hurt me."

Thanks, @AZChristian. You've saved me the trouble. Except, I've already started playing the episode and I think I'll watch it again anyway. Not much on TV tonight that I'm all that interested in anyway.  😀

[AZChristian]

Just now, Jeeves said:

Thanks, @AZChristian. You've saved me the trouble. Except, I've already started playing the episode and I think I'll watch it again anyway. Not much on TV tonight that I'm all that interested in anyway.  😀

We've already agreed to re-binge the whole thing right before Season 3 is released.  And then we'll probably do it again right before Season 4 . . . and 5 . . . and 6.

I should change my user name to BritGeek.

[sugarbaker design]

Many thanks @AZChristian!

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 12:01 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

Not specific to this episode, but damn, what does Elizabeth carry in her purse?  She's got it with her everywhere.  I can understand it - sort of - when going out, but she's carrying it from room to room in her house.  Who does that?

I have been wondering that. She brings it with her when she gives a speech--from Buckingham Palace, everywhere. It's gotten to be distracting to me.

[kassygreene]

I believe it's fairly empty.  She's given money for church on Sundays, and her lady-in-waiting usually has all the spare gloves and stockings and stuff.

[dubbel zout]

According to various sources, she keeps a mirror and lipstick, a 5-pound note, a fountain pen, a hook to hang the purse on a table, reading glasses, a handkerchief, mint lozenges, some crossword puzzles. Pretty standard stuff.

[Crs97]

It would really make my day if I saw a photo of her working on a crossword puzzle at some dinner while the speaker was droning on.  Bigger squeal if she asked the person next to her for help.

[RedbirdNelly]

16 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

According to various sources, she keeps a mirror and lipstick, a 5-pound note, a fountain pen, a hook to hang the purse on a table, reading glasses, a handkerchief, mint lozenges, some crossword puzzles. Pretty standard stuff.

I've seen that but it still puzzles me. It's with her, in the chair when she talks to the prime minister. Not nearby, but in her chair. It just strikes me as odd that she has it so nearby all the time---it's with her the same way my purse is with me when I'm somewhere I'm paranoid that someone might steal it or that I might forget it. Anyway, it just keeps catching my eye.

[chitowngirl]

She also uses her purse to send signals to her staff.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let’s please take further off topic purse conversation to History Talk please. Thank you.

[Razzberry]

Elizabeth appears to have slept throughout the delivery of Andrew.  I don't think this is possible, but could explain why he's her favorite.

Loved the conga line, and Tommy and Michael dishing the dirt on Anthony.

 

[Popples]

14 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

Elizabeth appears to have slept throughout the delivery of Andrew.  I don't think this is possible, but could explain why he's her favorite.

It was called Twilight Sleep childbirth. The mothers were heavily medicated during labor and delivery and vaguely remember giving birth, hence the forceps shown because the Queen was not really in a state to push on her own.

[jschoolgirl]

On 12/29/2017 at 3:58 PM, tennisgurl said:

the scenes where she was riding in the carriage with Philip to her wedding, she looked happier than she ever has

For once, she was receiving adulation.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Please do sit down.  RUN FOR THE HILLS!

Loved the scene when Elizabeth asked/ordered Adeane to make inquiries on Jones.  I almost screamed, TOMMY!  Happily, I saw the fantastic staging of his brief hesitation and then his purposeful march up the stairs.  That was his territory, by God.  Then, the careful revelations to the Queen.  So delicious.

I was taken aback at the jump in time within the ep.  We went from 14 weeks to delivery in one fell swoop with no intervening draaaaaama.  Not saying it was a bad choice.

The various sex scenes were off-putting, to me.  

I very much liked the continuity of Philip going out of his way to compliment and reassure his sister-in-law.  Not a fan of the shot of the carriage rolling over excrement.

Finally, I was somewhat stunned by the rock & roll band playing at the palace.  It was a forceful signal as to the observations made about the speed of change.  It sure got my attention.

 

 

[Spartan Girl]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:46 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Not a fan of the shot of the carriage rolling over excrement.

This show does love its metaphors. And making royal weddings as ominous as possible.

Margaret looked so lovely in her wedding gown. But all I could think was