S04.E09: Don't Run

[Chicago Redshirt]

11 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I kind of doubt it.  Killer Frost is basically The Hulk to Caitlin's Bruce Banner - a second, uncontrolled form with metahuman powers and some negative personality traits.

Over the long-running history of the Hulk, there has been at least one time when the Bruce Banner persona was in charge of the big green body, actually. So there is precedent for integrating opposing personalities.

Not that the Flash's writers need to be bound by what the Hulk or anyone else has gone through. If they wanted to have Caitlin get healthy psychologically, they could do it whenever they wanted. They probably won't because having a completely healthy and reliable and heroic Frost on Team Flash makes things more easy mode than they already should be with Barry's full repertoire of abilities unlocked.

[benteen]

8 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I have to know if this is really it for Neil Sandilands. It just seems like such a waste, he's been great in these few episodes.

I'm skeptical about that...I think they're going to figure out some way to bring him back eventually, like a clone body or something.

Agreed.  Neil Sandilands has been so great in the role that I hate seeing him go.

[RedVitC]

Don't have a lot of time, so quick thoughts:

I had my suspicions that Barry would end up being arrested/in jail this season but I was still surprised by that scene at the end. I didn't see Devoe being in Dominic's body coming at all. I thought they were maybe setting up a romance with him and Caitlin, so that was a clever way of the show to subvert that. I think Neil did a great job as the Thinker, though, so I'll miss him. Dominic's actor seems good too.

 

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Although, did we just HAVE to bring up the stupid double wedding thing? I AM SO SICK OF TALKING ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

Same. I am absolutely fine with the double wedding for the record, but I'm ready for people to move on from the subject.

 

I loved married Barry and Iris. Iris West-Allen what a beautiful sound. Though I'd hoped that Barry and Iris would act like dorky newlyweds and keep calling each other husband and wife. I can't help but find it cute that Barry still wears his wedding ring when suited up. 

That was a though decision for Iris to make, but I think she made the right call. And I'm glad he writers had her and Barry talk it over at the end. I wonder if her statement that she's not sure how much longer she can do it is a hint that we'll be hearing more about journalism as the rest of the season unfolds. I always thought it strange that she didn't take a second after Barry came back to think about if she really wanted to be team leader or if she'd only taken that position because someone had to do it.

 

I thought they toned down Ralph a bit compared to episode 6, and that helped the character imo. I thought his I did it for my friends at the end of the episode, or something like that, was kinda sweet.

That was an interesting route to take for Caitlin and Killer Frost, because I don't feel like we've seen integrated in the team Killer Frost yet, so I was just as surprised as Caitlin that the rest of the team was spending time with her alter ego. They could have set that up better. But 'being jealous of your alter ego' is kind of interesting. In a relationship (can Ronnie come back yet?) that could get complicated.

So Cecile was out of town during Christmas? And Wally was too busy to come home for Christmas? I guess he's learning all those new skills (which judging by the crossover are impressive). Doe Wally even know he's going to be a big brother?

[phoenics]

I really enjoyed this episode.  I ended up seeing the last half first and then got to see the rest today, so now I get what happened.  That was one hell of a twist ending.

Iris and Barry opening gifts - so not only did Olicity interrupt the wedding, they also couldn't follow the registry and got a gift that wasn't even personal?  LOL.  And apparently Iris wasn't happy about Olicity interrupting the wedding - no sane bride would be honestly.  No bride thinks "It would be AWESOME if two friends of mine interrupted my wedding right before I kissed my new husband!" on the morning of her wedding.  Do double weddings happen?  Sure - but they are PLANNED.  I'm excited though - now all of the articles dragging Olicity for being the worst wedding guests ever can add addendums, lol.  The writers really aren't doing Olicity any favors.  But I'm glad the Flash writers didn't gloss this over and make it "okay".  They didn't write Iris' funeral interruptus as "okay" either, so fair's fair.

The guy playing Dominic - whew - hot.  I've seen him in something else and he reminds me of an actor who played on Blindspot and The Royals, but apparently it's not him but another guy who looks like him... that twist with him and DeVoe was masterful - I never ever saw it coming.  

Barry being framed by DeVoe was brilliant - him looking at his picture with Iris, etc..  and then deciding not to run because of her... wow.  GG did an amazing job with just that back and forth with a photo.  I guess he could have cleaned DeVoe up and run but that would have just made things worse because DeVoe probably already thought through all of the scenarios and BA would be screwed either way.  I'm looking forward to this trial.  I need Cecile to up her game though - her defense can't come down to "just say you're the Flash!".  Do your job girl!

The Caitlin/KF thing bores me.  Sorry.  Caitlin's feeling sorry for herself because her friends like KF?  First world problems Caitlin.

And finally... I hope that's not the last we see of the original DeVoe - I don't know why I love his scenes with his wife so much.  They had so much chemistry and you could just see the love between them.  He also made villainy look so effortless - you almost rooted for him.

One last - problematic - thing:  I'm feeling some kind of way about having a white man purchase a black man and then just using him for his body and swapping minds.  I really like the Dominic actor though (any significance to his last name being Lance?), so I'll allow it.  

But I hope they are able to restore Dominic in the end - otherwise that's really dark, show.

[Rachel RSL]

9 hours ago, ruby24 said:

No, he definitely can. I think they're probably going to have him make a conscious decision to stay in there and prove his innocence the right way

I think you're definitely right on that front. But I was wondering if his speed would allow him to sneak in and out to do some investigating or whatever without anyone actually noticing that he left the jail. 

[AnimeMania]

If I was Barry I would want my lawyers to determine:

Where was DeVoe's wheelchair.

Why was Mrs. DeVoe kissing that sexy black man in public. (The police should be watching the wife anyway, maybe they will catch them together acting suspicious. Maybe Ralph's (super powers or superpowers, not sure which is the correct spelling) combined with his private dicking skills can incriminate.)

What does the DeVoe's financial records look like.

What does the DeVoe's medical history look like. (DeVoe couldn't be going to regular doctors considering all the medical modifications that he has. How could they hide all of those modifications if the do an autopsy, the top of his head pops off like a can of Pringles.)

I would add the super luck lady to my team of attorneys. Luck beats skill and planning.

[DearEvette]

Yeah, there are way too many holes in the murder.  First one is motive. 

Why would Barry want DeVoe dead?  In about 72% of murders the motive is a crime of passion (romance, DV) or money.

Why was DeVoe at Barry and Iris' house in the first place?  It would look worse for Barry if DeVoe had lured Barry to the Devoe's home.  But by being at Barry's house he has set up reasonable doubt.  Barry has proof of an intruder alert on his phone.  The house was dark, couldn't Barry have thought he was an intruder?

And yeah, if the wife suddenly starts spending all her time with this young hottie, then she starts looking mighty guilty. 

[CletusMusashi]

It's quite possible that Devoe made a clone of himself and used that for the body. We don't really know what supertech he can and can't do.

I accept Barry not trying to ditch the body, because there's a difference tidying up with super-speed, and destroying all traces of blood and other DNA with super-speed. As a forensicist, he would be expected to realize the futility of that. although the the way Barry's IQ fluctuates, who knows?

You know what I don't accept, though? "La la la, everything is so perfect now that we're married...." right after finding out that Eobard Fucking Thawne is still around.

Edited December 6, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[Lady Calypso]

11 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Why would Barry want DeVoe dead?  In about 72% of murders the motive is a crime of passion (romance, DV) or money.

Well, there's the whole "Barry was kind of stalking Devoe to the point where Devoe and his wife went to Captain Singh to complain", which was their way of setting Barry up with his boss. 

12 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Why was DeVoe at Barry and Iris' house in the first place?  It would look worse for Barry if DeVoe had lured Barry to the Devoe's home.  But by being at Barry's house he has set up reasonable doubt.  Barry has proof of an intruder alert on his phone.  The house was dark, couldn't Barry have thought he was an intruder?

I bet we'll learn in the premiere how Devoe has convinced the police that Barry killed him. It probably will be a flimsy excuse. I mean, what, will the excuse be that Devoe went to Barry's house because Barry invited him over, only to kill him? 

Yeah, I'm guessing there will be some stretching with how it goes down. Actually, this is possibly a weaker way to set Barry up. 

[AnimeMania]

15 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Barry has proof of an intruder alert on his phone.  The house was dark, couldn't Barry have thought he was an intruder?

That can work against Barry, how long after getting the intruder alert was he at the apartment to turn it off. That would suggest he was right there. They could claim that his GPS on his phone is corrupted if it shows him at both the Christmas party and a second later at his apartment. Checking his GPS for that day would show him teleporting all over the city and would also be unreliable.

[bmoore4026]

13 hours ago, TDT said:

I bet Barry will be sitting in a jail cell for the rest of the season,and Wally takes over Flash duties(with some assistance from LoT's Jax) until Barry can clear his name..

Yes.  Yes, he will.  Just like the last big storyline in the Silver Age Flash comics before he got offed in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Yeah, there are way too many holes in the murder.  First one is motive. 

Why would Barry want DeVoe dead?  In about 72% of murders the motive is a crime of passion (romance, DV) or money.

Why was DeVoe at Barry and Iris' house in the first place?  It would look worse for Barry if DeVoe had lured Barry to the Devoe's home.  But by being at Barry's house he has set up reasonable doubt.  Barry has proof of an intruder alert on his phone.  The house was dark, couldn't Barry have thought he was an intruder?

And yeah, if the wife suddenly starts spending all her time with this young hottie, then she starts looking mighty guilty. 

Barry has already shown himself to be -- from the police department's eyes -- obsessed with Devoe.

Barry and Joe went to Devoe's house and accused him with no proof, and with no connection to any actual CCPD case. Devoe and his wife complained. Barry apologized.

Then Barry was caught on camera in Devoe's house AGAIN. He broke in to the house. As someone in law enforcement. Devoe and wife complain and express fear about this, and get a restraining order. Barry gets a suspension (and is lucky he wasn't arrested or fired.)

We know that Barry confronted Devoe AGAIN after that at Devoe's university. Although Devoe apparently didn't call the police on Barry then, he or his wife could have after the fact. And certainly numerous students saw Barry there talking to Devoe. So any of them  could have been prompted to say that Barry was again there menacing him.

And finally, CCPD apparently gets some sort of tip that Barry either was attacking or just killed Devoe. And when they enter Barry's locked home, they see Barry and Devoe's body.

There aren't too many reasonable conclusions to draw but that Barry did it. No one else would seem to have had the opportunity. No one has an apparent better motive than crazy stalker Barry. And the means -- death by wedding knife -- seems to also rule most people out.

Assuming Barry is going to share that he has the intruder alert, what's to say that he didn't simply trigger it himself? 

We know Barry's innocent. But based on what the cops will know, there's enough to show guilt beyond a reasonable doubt IMO. 

Some would depend on the forensics. And I would like to have him prove his innocence through that. Seems like there's no blood spatter on Barry, and another possible issue is what happened to Devoe's wheelchair.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Chicago Redshirt

[CabotCove]

Quote

I see a vow renewal or a new wedding in Iris and Barry's future cause clearly the Flash writers were not really here for that interrupted double wedding shit, lmao. 

LOL, the shading  they sure made their feelings known

[Grace19]

Loved this episode, started a little slow but finished with a bang. I can't wait to see how Barry gets out of this one. Sad to lose the old devoe, hello sexy devoe. Defoe's wife sure traded up. Dominic is played by the actor that played Caleb hapstall on how to get away with murder.

Glad iris and the flash writers shaded olicity and Barry put their gift in the return pile LMAO. And no, they didn't ruin iris character. Happy that the writers didn't turn iris into the bonnie Bennet of the arrowverse, the black friend that never gets mad at the white friend, is there for the white character, but nobody is there for her. Glad that iris spoke up, that's the iris I fell in love with.

I think team flash is really coming together, they really felt like a family. Loved that iris is always ready to make the tough call. Caitlin was also great in the way she outsmarted the woman who kidnapped her. Loved Harry's interaction with both iris and Caitlin.

Westallen were great as usual. Barry choosing not to run for Iris was sweet and Grant acted the hell out of that scene. Still like Ralph, he's hilarious. Cant wait for next episode.

[twoods]

Thank you! I thought that was the actor from  How to Get Away with Murder but he didn't have those blue eyes. He was good on that show so excited to see him as Devoe. Plus, he's beautiful.

That ending was completely unexpected. Poor Dominic- I hope he's restored by the end of the season.

That bitch meta-bounty hunter needs to go.

The rest of the gang were good as always. I love the chemistry between Team Flash and they've toned Ralph down too. Still miss Wally.

[johntfs]

13 minutes ago, twoods said:

That bitch meta-bounty hunter needs to go.

If you're referring to Amunet, she's not really a "bounty hunter."  The most precise description of her "job" is "slave trader."  She captures sentient beings, in this case meta-humans and then sells them.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Some would depend on the forensics. And I would like to have him prove his innocence through that. Seems like there's no blood spatter on Barry, and another possible issue is what happened to Devoe's wheelchair.

It would be hilarious to see Barry tear apart the police in court for the slipshod way they processed the crime scene and analyzed the forensics. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

11 hours ago, johntfs said:

If you're referring to Amunet, she's not really a "bounty hunter."  The most precise description of her "job" is "slave trader."  She captures sentient beings, in this case meta-humans and then sells them.

I think Amunet is actually more of a multi-faceted crimelord. She originally was selling Dominic's tears as a drug, and seems to have been up to various, unspecified nefarious practices since getting her powers.

I should correct myself -- Dominic and the Weeper are different people.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Chicago Redshirt

[johntfs]

49 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think Amunet is actually more of a multi-faceted crimelord. She originally was selling Dominic's tears as a drug, and seems to have been up to various, unspecified nefarious practices since getting her powers.

She was providing demonstrations of the effects of The Weeper's tears as part of her sales pitch when she was selling him.  While I'm certain that Amunet has committed various crimes, her main criminal enterprise at this point is "slavery."  In some ways it fits her backstory.  Before gaining powers, she was a stewardess who was treated like a piece of meat.  And that's how she now treats everyone else.

[Trini]

'Human trafficker' is also accurate for Amunet.

So yes - a man being sold so his body can used by someone else is cringeworthy at best, then add in the historical and racial contexts, and it looks really bad. However, it's supposed to look bad because it's the actions of the villains; but it's still somewhat tone deaf coming from the writers.

A key factor in resolving the Thinker body swap twist is ... what happened to Dominic? Is he (his mind/personality/memories) dead and gone, or just suppressed? Because on one hand, I liked the little bit we saw of Dominic and I'd like to see him again, working with Team Flash. On the other hand, if he is freed, then they'd have to deal with* the fact that he was a prisoner in his own mind, with someone else using his body for whatever they want. However, if Dominic is truly dead, then that makes things a little less complicated when it's time to take down The Thinker.

 

*(Or not! These writers, man.)

[AnimeMania]

How many more of the meta bus people are left for us to see?

[ruby24]

Like, 7?

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

How many more of the meta bus people are left for us to see?

There were 12 people meta'ed out of the bus crash. 

We have seen:

Technovore -- the guy who could control machines

Jinx -- the woman who can alter probabilities

Elongated Man - Ralph's stretchy self

Black Bison - the Native American activist who could animate statues of people or animals

The Weeper -- I think he was created in the bus thing but am not 100 percent sure

Dominic/Brainstorm - I think the Thinker identified him as subject 6. 

So I think we have 6 to go. 

I wonder -- was his wife the driver of the bus? If so, does that mean she's a meta? and if so, what are her powers?

[phoenics]

I thought the bus driver was a man?  I remember Lucky or whatever her name was (Jinx?) speaking to him in relief when she got on the bus.

[Trini]

They said the bus driver was found dead in his home in the 3rd or 4th episode - and they never followed up on that. So it might be only 5 more metas to find.

[Trini]

I'm somewhat disappointed that Neil Sandilands is off the show (maybe he'll make a couple more appearances?), but I'm not going to complain about having to look at this dude for the rest of the season:

----

I'm glad they had that line with DeVoe saying he wasn't interested in Barry's family, because it's a nice change that the big bad doesn't have a personal vendetta against Barry/The Flash or his loved ones.

But I do wonder why DeVoe hasn't taken the Flash out of the equation for whatever his grand plan is, since he seems to be the biggest threat to his success? Yes, this trial and possible conviction will impede Barry from superheroing, but not necessarily The Flash (depending on the choices he makes). I mean, I'm also glad Devoe's not a murderous psycho, but he seems to have the means to take out The Flash permanently, but he hasn't. I know he's confident in being 100 steps ahead of everyone, but why leave that to chance?

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

They said the bus driver was found dead in his home in the 3rd or 4th episode - and they never followed up on that. So it might be only 5 more metas to find.

I think that was meant to convey that the guy whose route it normally was had been found killed, as opposed to the person who actually drove the bus. My memory was that it was Ms. Devoe who drove the bus. But I could most definitely be wrong. 

[KirkB]

I'm not not sure I understand Devoe's overall plan. I mean, the basics yes. He needs these individual metas for reasons, has figured out exactly which people will have what power and how much dark energy it takes to change them. He even figured out, or arranged, for the bus to be in that particular spot at the precise time a portal to the speed force he apparently redirected opened. But why did he need CIsco and the others to bring back the Flash in order to get that portal? With all his tech, money and smarts, could he really not just build a "opens the speed force in the precise place and time I need it" device of his own?

[johntfs]

On 12/6/2017 at 7:26 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Over the long-running history of the Hulk, there has been at least one time when the Bruce Banner persona was in charge of the big green body, actually. So there is precedent for integrating opposing pe

Sure, but that's a temporary thing.  The default setting for The Hulk is intelligent scientist/raging monster and the conflict between them.  While Caitlin and Killer Frost have reached a level of coexistence, there's always a degree of conflict between them.  They hate each other's taste in clothes.  Their personalities are very different.  And conflict is story.  Without conflict there is no story.  It's why "And they lived happily ever after" always goes at the end of the story and not the middle.  So, I doubt we'll see a personality integration at any point, because that closes down a source of conflict and thus a source of story.

[ruby24]

The writer of the episode said on twitter that Barry and Iris had first look photos for their wedding. I didn't know this was an actual term, but apparently it is. It's set up by the photographer for the bride and groom to see each other in private for the first time a few hours before the ceremony. 

So I guess we have our explanation for the wedding picture! I kinda wish that was a deleted scene from the crossover. I wish they would release all the deleted scenes from the crossover online.

[Last Time Lord]

I think I'm going to miss DeVoe's Davros chair most of all...

I'm not sure how I feel about that ending. Perhaps I would be more optimistic if I thought Dominic's actor didn't do a horrible job in this episode because man, what a downgrade.

[Trini]

So the show manages to pass the Bedchel test this week, but it’s between a villain and her captive.

Where is The Thinker’s lair?? I thought that it was beneath his house, because of how quickly he went from the lair to the house to met with Joe. But then later on they showed that the hoverchair has teleportation(!!) abilities, so the lair could still be anywhere. Wow, why aren’t the DeVoes selling their tech?

I don’t think Marlize is fully on board with the body swap plan, but I don’t know if that will be enough to stop her from completing their ultimate mission. It would definitely stress the DeVoes’ marriage, but the show probably won’t go into that.

If they’re going keep repeating that DeVoe arranged to retrieve Barry from the speed force and create those new metahumans without any explanation, I’m going to keep repeating that IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE! They need to show some evidence of that.

Marlize saying that DeVoe knows whether Barry is ‘willing to sacrifice everything for his marriage’ is going to come into play later on, right? Answering that question will probably be a theme or the next part of the season.

Yeah, the whole ‘you can only find one’ plot contrivance is extra annoying on re-watch since both captives managed to free themselves in one way or another anyway. (Which was great, actually!) So all that was just for stalling. Not great for an episode before a hiatus. But at least it gave us a rare Iris/Wells scene.

So, no reason for not apprehending Amunet except the writers need her to pop up again.

They made it a point to show Barry with his gloves off and bleeding in his fight with Thinker. So I’m guessing that blood is going to come up as evidence in the murder trial later on.

A lot of people (not just here) have said “why didn’t Barry just move the body”, etc., but I don’t think it was that simple, even with super speed. (Maybe he could have moved the body and knife, but getting those blood stains out too?) Barry knows he’s dealing with DeVoe who is many steps ahead of him. DeVoe probably has contingencies for whatever option Barry chose. Plus I doubt that is the only evidence he is using to frame him. The police apparently got a credible tip to search the loft. I'm glad Barry didn't make a hasty decision; he is going to need the whole team and his family to get out of the mess DeVoe put him in.

Also, are the DeVoes in hiding now? I assume Marlize will have to make at least a few appearances in relation to the trial; and maybe a funeral for Clifford’s body.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Trini

[lion10]

On 12/6/2017 at 6:47 AM, cambridgeguy said:

They really do need to decide what Killer Frost is on this show.  Originally she was the Hyde to Caitlin's Jekyll but then they started having bits and pieces of Caitlin bleeding in to rationalize not tossing her in prison.  But now she's apparently Caitlin except not as uptight.  Are they heading for a situation where over time the two personalities merge into one? 

But the writers had that at the end of season 3 and they backtracked it like nothing happened come season 4.

[HunterHunted]

On 12/6/2017 at 8:59 AM, phoenics said:

The guy playing Dominic - whew - hot.  I've seen him in something else

How to Get Away with Murder season 2. He played Caleb Hapstall.

[Cthulhudrew]

Did I miss the follow through on Caitlin's realization that she didn't have the power to get her and Dominic free, but he did? I kept waiting for him to use his telepathy to do something, but all they ended up doing was trying to slip out the back door, and ended up getting caught. She didn't even explain what her big plan for his powers was to him. 

Color me confused.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Did I miss the follow through on Caitlin's realization that she didn't have the power to get her and Dominic free, but he did? I kept waiting for him to use his telepathy to do something, but all they ended up doing was trying to slip out the back door, and ended up getting caught. She didn't even explain what her big plan for his powers was to him. 

Color me confused.

Caitlin's plan was that Dominic use his telepathy to detect where the guards where and use that knowledge to avoid them

[Cthulhudrew]

3 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Caitlin's plan was that Dominic use his telepathy to detect where the guards where and use that knowledge to avoid them

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense.

[Quark]

That was such a good mid-season finale.

I must say, I found that chair unintentionally hilarious, first dragging Barry away and then plunging into the water.

So is the actor that played (original) Devoe gone? I thought he was a main cast member? These things always confuse me. The wife fascinates me.

Amunet is so unbelievably camp. I think "Ho ho ho" might just be the campest thing I've ever heard. It's hilarious.

I love Iris.

[mac123x]

On 12/6/2017 at 7:13 PM, Trini said:

A key factor in resolving the Thinker body swap twist is ... what happened to Dominic? Is he (his mind/personality/memories) dead and gone, or just suppressed?

I suspect this question will be a source of much angst for Team Flash.  Do they know any other telepaths who could confirm whether Dominic was still in there?  Ask Grodd for a favor I guess.

 

Of course the body he possesses happens to be very good looking.  I guess the Thinker arranged that so his wife wouldn't have to put up with an incontinent old person with a bunch of cats, or a basement dwelling computer geek with a bunch of cats.

On 12/8/2017 at 2:23 AM, Trini said:

Wow, why aren’t the DeVoes selling their tech?

They could make a fortune on some of the things they've developed.  Since they're not, I'm going to assume they're fanatics obsessed with their goal (Enlightenment?  whatever) rather than standard issue money-grubbing villains.

[Al Herkimer]

Not a bad cliffhanger.  Iris' inclusion in this all continues to make no sense.  Why would a failed reporter suddenly be "team leader" when she is absolutely the least qualified of the team members?  In what way is she even remotely qualified to be on the team?  Because the plot requires that she be given something to do, I guess.

Oliver and Felicity didn't get married during Iris and Barry's wedding.  The Nazis from Earth-X interrupted their wedding.  Diggle's appearance in the park hardly qualifies as "their wedding" and anyway, that ungrateful b- is overlooking that fact that the ceremony that Diggle performed only happened because Oliver suggested it.

The joke is on her, though.  That mysterious character was very explicit in specifically reminding Barry to say "I do."  It's no coincidence that the writers were careful to show us that Barry never said those words.

[johntfs]

3 minutes ago, Al Herkimer said:

In what way is she even remotely qualified to be on the team? 

Because she ultimately has much better judgement than any of the rest of them.  It's not really a matter of "best" when it comes to Team Flash.  It's more "least worst."  Iris is by far the least worst choice for team leader.

[Trini]

On 12/10/2017 at 7:58 PM, mac123x said:

Ask Grodd for a favor I guess.

You're probably saying this as a joke, but... I can totally see that scenario happening.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Trini

[legaleagle53]

On 12/10/2017 at 5:58 PM, mac123x said:

I suspect this question will be a source of much angst for Team Flash.  Do they know any other telepaths who could confirm whether Dominic was still in there?  Ask Grodd for a favor I guess.

Sure, IF they even know where Grodd is.  Damien Dahrk recruited him for the Legion of Doom 2.0 after Grodd found himself battling the Legends in 1967 Vietnam, and nobody at this point knows where Darkh and Grodd are, except that Darkh is apparently letting Grodd trash history at will.

However, Team Flash does know someone who knows three telepaths.  They can get in touch with Alex Danvers on Earth-38 (since Kara's currently out of commission following her battle with Reign), who can put them in touch with J'onn Jonzz, J'onn's father, and Imra Ardeen (Mon-El's wife, aka Saturn Girl from the 31st Century).

Edited December 12, 2017 by legaleagle53

[KirkB]

8 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

However, Team Flash does know someone who knows three telepaths.  They can get in touch with Alex Danvers on Earth-1 (since Kara's currently out of commission following her battle with Reign), who can put them in touch with J'onn Jonzz, J'onn's father, and Imra Ardeen (Mon-El's wife, aka Saturn Girl from the 31st Century).

Hah! J'onn has just gotten his dad to understand some Earth customs. Now I want to see him try and explain a whole other Earth.

Seriously though, when have you know anyone on Team Flash to be THAT logical? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

They can get in touch with Alex Danvers on Earth-1

There is no Alex Danvers on Earth-1. Supergirl's Earth is 38.

[mac123x]

16 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

However, Team Flash does know someone who knows three telepaths.  They can get in touch with Alex Danvers on Earth-1 (since Kara's currently out of commission following her battle with Reign), who can put them in touch with J'onn Jonzz, J'onn's father, and Imra Ardeen (Mon-El's wife, aka Saturn Girl from the 31st Century).

I'd forgotten about Martian Manhunter.  I don't know the others you mentioned because I stopped watching Supergirl due to their marketing department.

I'd kind of like it if Dominic was alive and in there and fighting back.  For once I'd like to see the victim of a possession have some agency.  They did that on an episode of ST: Voyager and it was a refreshing change.  Probably won't happen here because that'd take away from Barry beating the Big Bad by running really fast.

[legaleagle53]

12 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

There is no Alex Danvers on Earth-1. Supergirl's Earth is 38.

Oops.  My bad -- I corrected it.  Thanks!

[Miss Dee]

On December 6, 2017 at 3:48 AM, ruby24 said:

I don't think Barry can sit in a jail cell the entire rest of the season- four episodes tops, is my prediction. Either they have to break him out, or he manages to clear his name.

Hey, they might know a couple of guys on the Waverider who know how to pull off a Prison Break.

I really enjoyed this episode. Some items of interest:

I loved the callback to the crossover where Barry and Iris realized Mick had stolen the 40 toasters he had gifted them. Look on the bright side, guys: Mick at least understood the social conventions enough to know you bring a gift to the wedding, and he played along instead of drinking your booze and feasting on crab legs for nothing. He likes you!

I HATED the callback to the crossover by having Iris snark on the interruption of their park ceremony. I don't care from a character point of view - what she said was pretty tame, and funny, and considering what she and Barry have been through: a mild snark on her friend to her husband in private - one that she would probably never voice to anyone else for fear of hurting her friend's feelings - is not exactly gasp-worthy. But it's just going to make more fodder for the "My Ship Rules, Your Ship Drools" War between Arrow and Flash fandoms, and as someone who likes both Iris and Felicity and is fine with both their romantic relationships this is such a boring non-issue for me.

I haven't seen anyone comment on the callback to Cisco's flotation device in the Flash suit. That was funny, and unexpected (to me, at least).

I agree the visuals with Devoe taking over Dominic's body were utterly cringeworthy. I do think the new actor has some chops and if they can write it so his character eventually wrests control of his body back (his telepathic abilities might help with that), and if they would only lampshade it a bit on how it looks, it wouldn't be so bad. I actually wouldn't mind seeing what developed between Caitlin and Dominic - the experience of being shunted aside for another personality to take over is something they could bond over that very few people would understand.

I'm gonna assume Joe yelled at Iris and Barry for not speed-napping him for the ceremony off screen.

[Ottis]

I'm out. I tried to stay with this show, but CW emphasizes soap opera relationships over interesting plots and story. Dropped Supergirl a month ago, but have watched Flash since it started. until now. Best to all.

[BaggythePanther]

On 12/18/2017 at 8:00 AM, Ottis said:

I'm out. I tried to stay with this show, but CW emphasizes soap opera relationships over interesting plots and story. Dropped Supergirl a month ago, but have watched Flash since it started. until now. Best to all.

Honest question, what soap opera story is being emphasized on The Flash? I understand dropping Supergirl because the love triangle (among other things) is going to be annoying to watch. But what is wrong with The Flash?