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S01.E09: Intangibles


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I was more invested in the missing sample than I was in the main case with the little boy.  Was there a reason why they couldn't take a biopsy from a nearby area?  It was a throat nodule, right?  

Good to see Marsha Thomason, I've always enjoyed her work.

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I found the flirting storyline a lot more enjoyable than either of the patients of the week. I almost fell off the couch laughing when Shaun made a note in his flirting chart after observing Claire giggling at Melendez yet again.

What are the chances of a Congolese village woman being fluent in English? That plot was completely predictable - the show wasn't going to kill a cute little boy from a war-torn country - but at least watching the VR practice surgeries was fascinating.

Jessica was a bitch to Claire at the end. My understanding is that Claire wasn't the one who put the nodule in the wrong container, and the hospital would have had to pay a lot more if Claire hadn't found the specimen in time and the patient had lost her voice box.

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Shaun is too adorable for words, I swear :D. All the stuff with his observations and comments about flirting were hilarious. "Or it could be ringworm." Hee. And I loved Claire teaching him the "flirting trifecta", too. I'm not entirely sure about the idea of Shaun and Lea as a possible couple yet, but I do like that they're becoming good friends.. If nothing else, she could prove helpful in making him feel more confident about himself, which would certainly bode well for him if and when he does eventually feel ready to date somebody.

The whole "Claire's interested in Melendez" thing, though...I'm hoping if they do decide to go through with that, they avoid making it all messy. Claire and Jared, if I recall rightly, are more of a simple fling thing, so that may not be an issue, but Melendez and Jessica are stable and I kinda like them together. Guess we'll see how that plays out. 

In regards to the cases, I was actually holding my breath during Gabriel's surgery. Oh, man, that was tense. I liked that whole weird virtual tech thing that Shaun and Melendez were using to help figure out their best options for him going forward (and it was neat to see Shaun and Melendez working together in and of itself, too). The ending was really sweet, too, with Jared and Melendez watching TV with Gabriel in his room :). 

And man, poor Claire just ain't catching a break lately, is she? At least they were able to sort things out for that woman, which, yay. And I enjoyed seeing her and Carly working together as they tried to find the sample. I'm all for more of them interacting and hanging out, both at work and outside of work. 

Next week looks intense. 

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4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Jessica was a bitch to Claire at the end. My understanding is that Claire wasn't the one who put the nodule in the wrong container, and the hospital would have had to pay a lot more if Claire hadn't found the specimen in time and the patient had lost her voice box.

Yeah, I didn't like that, either.  If Jessica was implying that Claire boffed up everything, she was in the wrong.  Losing the specimen resulted in the lawsuit, not Claire's apology.  People aren't stupid, and the patient knew what was going on.  The doctors couldn't buy any more time, hence the surgery that almost was.

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About Claire’s apology -- somewhere I saw a study about medical problems and mistakes.  It concluded that if doctors apologized, patients were *less* likely to sue because they saw the doctors as more human.  Is anyone familiar with such a study?

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And they should get sued. The hospital fucked up and put that poor woman through hell. 

Shaun and Melendez are the most interesting pairing on the show. Melendez treats Shaun more like an equal but there's still awkwardness there. Any episode that features them together is a winner for me. 

I don't think Claire is about to get between Melendez and Jessica. I just think she's subconsciously flirting with him because she has eyes and he is hot. 

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The last few weeks have just been awful for poor Claire. Patients die, Nazis throw stuff at her, and now shes involved in a lawsuit. Jessica really was a massive bitch to her at the end. Her apologizing didn't really matter, the patient knew what was going on. And just saying she was sorry didn't even mean she was admitting the hospital was at fault. She was just saying she felt bad about the whole situation. And if Claire hadn't run around the whole hospital and found the missing sample, they would have a MUCH worse lawsuit on their hands. The hospital should get sued, the poor woman was put through hell and her life was almost ruined. I just hope Claire doesn't get dragged through the mud for it. 

I also liked the look through the hospitals daily running's, and the people who work there who arent doctors or nurses or administrators. It made it seem like a real place. 

Shaun and Melendez are a really interesting pairing, and I always really like their scenes. You can tell Melendez still feels a little bit weird around Shaun, but he also treats him as an equal, and now fully believes in his competence as a doctor. I think Shaun probably also likes being around someone rather more blunt than other people. 

Speaking of Shaun, the guy is just so cute. His attempts at flirting and understanding what it actually IS was really endearing. He tries so hard to pick up on social cues, and while he does pretty well, all things considered, he clearly struggles so much with it. Claire and Shaun's "flirting trifecta" conversation was fun, especially how Shaun keeps mistaking flirting for ringworm! I dont know if Shaun and Lea would actually be a good couple, I do like them being flirty friends, and they seem to be good for each other. Lea gives Shaun someone to talk to and improve his social skills with outside of work, and from what we`ve seen of Lea, she seems to appreciate his honestly and earnestness. 

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Got to watch this episode live for once and I'm glad it was a pretty fun one!

Neither one of the cases really surprised me, but I did enjoy the character interactions and how it all played out.  I figured the kid was going to be saved, but I liked how it was almost similar to last week, where it was a combination of Shaun, Melendez, and Jarod managed to help save the day, thanks to Shaun's crazy plan, Jared noticing that one thing after they opened up the heart (kind of confused by that), and Melendez doing the surgery.  It really shows how everyone here has their own strengths and weaknesses, and they're really a good team and not just one person being awesome.  In general, the show has done a solid job at making Melendez much better then he was at first.

Enjoyed the Claire stuff too and it was great seeing Jasika Nicole's character again, but while I guess I understand why they don't want their doctors to actually say they are sorry or admitted wrong doing, I felt like Jessica was kind of being too much of a jerk about it, especially at the end.  Even if Claire didn't apologize, the lady probably still would have sued, because of that major screw-up.

A decent bit of insight into Andrews, where it seems like he is married to a fellow doctor played by Marsha Thomason, and they're currently in the adjustment phase over him being away all the time, due to campaigning for Glassman's job.

Shaun learning the "art" of flirting did go through some tropes, but I still was loving his chart, Glassman's reactions, and the way Shaun/Freddie Highmore looked when Claire did that hair flip again around Melendez, and he slowly began writing on his chart again.  And then his attempt to "flirt by insult" by dissing Lea's sweater was hilarious, although I'm glad she didn't seem bothered by it.  Hopefully nothing comes out of Claire being attracted to Melendez though.  I'd like to avoid the angst and just have it be a simple crush.

All that said, there is clearly some trouble brewing over Shaun not wanting to a counselor/therapist and Glassman continue to push for it.  Looks like that might all be coming to ahead next week/Winter Finale.

Edited by thuganomics85
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I didn't understand why they couldn't get another specimen to test.

Also wondered if the kid could have been saved by a heart transplant.

I enjoyed the flirting storyline, but I am repulsed by the flirting methods Claire identified, and it depresses me that the show seems to endorse them.

Glassman to me seems to be way overstepping with Shaun. He's treating Shaun as though Shaun is a child and Glassman's "in charge," rather than as if he's a friend or advisor or ally. If he needs to be less available, he should own up to it in terms of his own needs, not issue declarations about what Shaun needs. And if Shaun decides not to take Glassman's advice, that's Shaun's business. He needs to respect Glassman's boundaries, but Glassman needs to accept Shaun's as well. Berating him is not supportive, it's insulting as hell. I think he's acting out of his feelings about whatever happened with his daughter, but he needs to deal with that and not project it onto Shaun.

I like how Jarad gently touched Shaun to cue him to not say anything when Melendez was arguing with the other consulting doctor whose name I didn't catch. That was supportive without being controlling. I like the relationships that are developing among the team members.

Melendez deciding to try harder after the mom called him on his privilege was actually rather disturbing to me. I mean, he should have been trying his best all along. I also didn't understand why the other doctor disappeared after the MRI, and why they called him back at the end of the surgery. I might have missed something in the introduction, but he didn't really seem to do anything or be needed in any way for the case. Melendez did it all, start to finish.

Do people really take their dentures out in public? Is it really easier to eat without your dentures? I know it's a hospital, but I'd think the cafeteria would be the last place you'd leave your teeth behind.

Jessica should have been being harsh with whoever put the specimen in the wrong container in the freaking OR, not with Claire who was not at all at fault here.

I'm ready to see Claire do something other than scut work. Shaun and Jarad have been doing surgery and having brainstorms with Melendez, while Claire's looking like an orderly half the time.

Edited by possibilities
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I wonder if Jessica is more concerned with Claire's dedication to blunt honesty with her patients than she is with Claire's apology. She might have preferred that Claire lie and say the biopsy result was "indeterminate," as they often are (my own thyroid nodule biopsy and ultrasound for example).

Fans used to complain about all the terrible things that happened to David Morse's character on "St. Elsewhere" week after week. The writers explained that that was his character's "role" in the series. I wonder if that's supposed to be Claire's special contribution, to have all the bad luck

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26 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I also didn't understand why the other doctor disappeared after the MRI, and why they called him back at the end of the surgery. I might have missed something in the introduction, but he didn't really seem to do anything or be needed in any way for the case. Melendez did it all, start to finish.

Apparently the other doctor was a cardiologist, not a surgeon. So - according to the dialogue - he could diagnose what he saw on the MRI, but not fix it. I'm not sure how accurate that would be IRL.

21 minutes ago, Bobbin said:

I wonder if that's supposed to be Claire's special contribution, to have all the bad luck

So she's the Meredith Grey of this show? Complete with having the hots for her superior? ;)

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I really liked seeing Shaun and Melendez work together. Claire on the other hand has had a terrible few weeks. Honestly, after they fixed the sample mess. I thought she finally got her break but the law sued happen which by the way is not even Claire's fault. Honestly, the Hospital messed up and Claire fixed. The lady is not suing because of "I am sorry". She is suing because y'all were incompetent. 

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Legal schooled  Claire not to say I'm sorry, Drs have to know/learn  that aspect of their job because they will most likely be sued one day - so in that regard...Claire screwed up too disregarding what she was specifically told what not to say by the business side of the hosp..

Edited by sheetmoss
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1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I didn't understand why they couldn't get another specimen to test.

My mom asked the same question. 

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Glassman to me seems to be way overstepping with Shaun. He's treating Shaun as though Shaun is a child and Glassman's "in charge," rather than as if he's a friend or advisor or ally. If he needs to be less available, he should own up to it in terms of his own needs, not issue declarations about what Shaun needs. And if Shaun decides not to take Glassman's advice, that's Shaun's business. He needs to respect Glassman's boundaries, but Glassman needs to accept Shaun's as well. Berating him is not supportive, it's insulting as hell. I think he's acting out of his feelings about whatever happened with his daughter, but he needs to deal with that and not project it onto Shaun.

Yeah, it's weird, because there's been times this season thus far where Glassman's wanted to be kinda hands-off and all, "Figure things out for yourself" to Shaun, and then we have moments like this, where he wants to manage his whole life. It's a strange back and forth, and he keeps giving Shaun conflicting advice. No wonder Shaun snaps at him as a result. 

I think you're right that his past issues with his daughter are factoring into his behavior here. He's been such a father figure to Shaun for so long, to where he can't seem to fully figure out how to let go. And I think there's other reasons behind his treatment of Shaun, too. I know some have theorized that something will happen to Glassman eventually (and boy, do some of his comments at times sure seem to hint at that possibility, with all this "I won't be here all the time" talk), and so he wants to make sure that Shaun's in good hands going forward, and that somebody can help him deal with losing Glassman and whatnot. 

Which, if that winds up being the case, I can totally sympathize with that...but even then, yeah, there's still better ways to prepare someone for that kind of possibility. 

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I like how Jarad gently touched Shaun to cue him to not say anything when Melendez was arguing with the other consulting doctor whose name I didn't catch. That was supportive without being controlling. I like the relationships that are developing among the team members.

I liked that moment, too :). I also loved the rapport between all three men during Gabriel's surgery, watching them work together and communicate as they did. I can totally see Jared and Melendez becoming big brother figures to Shaun. And it'd be neat to see Jared and Melendez hanging out together more as well.

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It almost slipped past me when Jessica asked Melendez what he was clutching when they left the hospital and he said, "Gabriel's pacemaker." It was the board that Gabriel's mother had tapped on to "synchronize" his heartbeat. She must have given it to Melendez. Sweet.

Edited by Bobbin
A better word.
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2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I didn't understand why they couldn't get another specimen to test.

I think the specimen was just one node that they found and removed, so they wouldn't have another node to test whether it was cancerous or benign. 

My question is why it was so either/or on the surgery.  Why couldn't they wait and see if another node developed, or some other sign of cancer developed somewhere?  Why would she go from one node that was possibly cancerous to death with no in-between steps?

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9 hours ago, Driad said:

About Claire’s apology -- somewhere I saw a study about medical problems and mistakes.  It concluded that if doctors apologized, patients were *less* likely to sue because they saw the doctors as more human.  Is anyone familiar with such a study?

You can find the original article here.  I thought of it too. Since it was pretty obvious that the hospital had screwed up, a sincere apology and concern for the patient would have gone a long way. Look how the patient hugged Claire after she said "I'm sorry." I'll bet Claire wasn't named as a defendant in the lawsuit.

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9 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Fans used to complain about all the terrible things that happened to David Morse's character on "St. Elsewhere" week after week.

Boomer!  I loved that show! Hadn’t thought about it in ages.  

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Do you think that Lea realizes that Shaun is autistic or does she think he is just a quirky guy who tells the truth? Is this like "Being There" where she doesn't actually recognize that he is autistic?

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and I'm glad it was a pretty fun one!

Maybe it is just me, but I think it was only fun by comparison to the heaviness of the rest of the series.

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Fans used to complain about all the terrible things that happened to David Morse's character on "St. Elsewhere" week after week.

I had not really connected Boomer and Meredith and Claire because I always remembered Boomer as a good hearted sad sack and not at the professional level of Meredith and Claire, but it has been a really really long time since I thought about St. Elsewhere's even with Grey's bringing back William Daniels to be Mark Craig!

ETA:

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Jessica was a bitch to Claire at the end.

In deciding what Jessica was doing, remember that Beau Garrett is a terrible actress, so she may have been going for compassion, you just never know. I think she was shutting down the flirt/crush, but she is so bad that anything is possible.

Edited by AriAu
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Wow.  Is it me or have the writers really upped their game?  At the beginning of the series, the only person I was interested in was Shaun.  Now, I care about the whole gang.  Dr. Melendez was a bit of a jerk but now he's a three dimensional character and I like him!  Claire's character is funny and sweet and idealistic.  Dr. Andrews is more than a hospital president wannabe in the most well-tailored lab coat I've ever seen.  I'm interested in Aaron Glassman's past.  I've even warmed to Jared!

I tuned in for Freddie's adorableness and I'm staying for the great chemistry the cast members have with one another.

"Or it could be ringworm".  I wonder if there's a way I could incorporate that in my everyday vocabulary?

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Agreed, @Pink-n-Green. I've been really impressed with the way the show's been developing the other characters, too. I'd hoped we'd get a nice little ensemble setup going with the cast when this show first started, and I'm really glad they're going in that direction. All the various dynamics among the group make for great story possibilities, and it's fun to see the kinds of friendships and familial bonds that are slowly developing as well. 

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21 minutes ago, Pink-n-Green said:

I've even warmed to Jared!

I’ve warmed up to him a lot too.  I never actively disliked him the way that I did Melendez or Anderson, I just really didn’t care about him one way or another.  It seemed initially he was being painted as emotionally closed off, but it turns out he is one of the more naturally compassionate members of the team. 

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Again, I believe it's been their interaction with Dr. Shaun Murphy's openness, honesty and vulnerability that's been responsible for all the other characters letting their inner selves come to the surface.

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And they manage to do all this without constant musical beds! I like that this show is not at all focused on sexcapades. Grey's Anatomy take note! We had Claire and Jared banging in the pilot, but they've dropped that story completely and I really appreciate it.

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43 minutes ago, possibilities said:

And they manage to do all this without constant musical beds! I like that this show is not at all focused on sexcapades. Grey's Anatomy take note! We had Claire and Jared banging in the pilot, but they've dropped that story completely and I really appreciate it.

Me too!  When I saw that first scene with Claire and Jared, my first thought was "Not THIS again?!?"

I meant to mention earlier that I liked seeing Pej Vahdat (Squintern Dr. Aristoo Vaziri from "Bones") as the cardiologist working with Melendez on the little boy's care.  I was bummed to see on IMDB that he's only in one episode though.

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When people have been the victim of a catastrophic medical error, most of the time the main driving force behind their lawsuits isn't money. The punitive part, anyway, not anything they might need for ongoing care. What they want is to know that someone is taking responsibility for the mistake, that that person is genuinely sorry, and that procedures are being put in place so that it never happens again. Most of the time, if those factors can be satisfied outside of the legal system, the person will be satisfied.

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I not going to lies I do like all the characters and I am interesting in most of the relationship!

But, for me the the one I care the most are Shaun \claire  Shaun/Glassman  Melendez\

So, ok for Lea and Shaun but everytme the little interaction between Shaun and Claire stole de show!  I just loved the how Shaun was very attentive at Claire lesson and how she was his primary study case!

And, Melendez is hot but I don't want some triangle between him, Claire et his fiancee, please show your better than that!

Lastly, why Claire seem the one always in difficulty, she is the the only female student and I am beginning to want her to have a success soon! I liked at first they didn't go for the cold ultra competent female doctor but...let the girl be a part of the main operation for once!

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On 11/27/2017 at 8:18 PM, chocolatine said:

Jessica was a bitch to Claire at the end. My understanding is that Claire wasn't the one who put the nodule in the wrong container, and the hospital would have had to pay a lot more if Claire hadn't found the specimen in time and the patient had lost her voice box.

On 11/27/2017 at 9:28 PM, possibilities said:

Jessica should have been being harsh with whoever put the specimen in the wrong container in the freaking OR, not with Claire who was not at all at fault here.

The lawsuit should name:

The person that put the nodule in the mislabeled container.

The person or persons in charge of clearing the OR after each operation (including clearing any unused items from the room)

The Head of Operations for not having policies in place to clear the OR after each operation.

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On 11/28/2017 at 4:28 PM, possibilities said:

I didn't understand why they couldn't get another specimen to test.

I didn't understand why they didn't even mention the possibility or why it wasn't one.  It was such an obvious thought for me.

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8 hours ago, Nozycat said:

I didn't understand why they didn't even mention the possibility or why it wasn't one.  It was such an obvious thought for me.

I didn't get that either, but someone upthread mentioned that the patient had only one questionable nodule; it wouldn't have helped them to biopsy another nodule that didn't have the potential symptoms/red flags for that type of cancer. Which I agree should have been made more clear because it made no sense why they didn't just do another biopsy, it had to be this.sample.

I'm not complaining but wow there are a lot of British actors on this show. Freddie Highmore, Antonia Thomas, Chuku Modu and then last night Marsha Thomason.

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On 11/27/2017 at 10:54 PM, Annber03 said:
On 11/27/2017 at 9:28 PM, possibilities said:

I didn't understand why they couldn't get another specimen to test.

My mom asked the same question. 

I understood it as they had removed the entire nodule.  At least that is the only way it made sense to me.

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1 hour ago, SoCal Mema said:

I understood it as they had removed the entire nodule.  At least that is the only way it made sense to me.

They could have avoided viewer confusion by adding one line.  This happens so often (not just this show, most of them) that it is one of my pet peeves.  Maybe I should get a cat and name him Peeve.

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I understood it as there was only one nodule to test.

I think that the reason that they had to proceed with the surgery was because if they waited and she really had cancer, then by the time they saw another nodule, it would have already spread so much that it would have killed her. Better to be mute than be dead.

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30 minutes ago, MoreCoffeePlease said:

Why couldn't the little boy get a heart transplant?

I thought of that too as did my husband, but I think the problem is that you would have to use a child's heart of a similar size.  It's hard enough getting organs for transplant in general, and I'm sure that the available list of children's organs is even smaller.

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6 hours ago, AriAu said:

Saw a few minutes of this episode again and I am becoming more convinced that Lea does not understand Shaun is autistic. Thoughts

I agree, and I like it! She's the only person on the show who takes Shaun "at face value" so to speak. Everyone else who knows either tries to discriminate against Shaun (Melendez and Andrews in the beginning) or is supportive but also a little too patronizing at times (Glassman, Claire).

Edited by chocolatine
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7 hours ago, MoreCoffeePlease said:

Why couldn't the little boy get a heart transplant?

I've never been a huge fan of Richard Schiff, but his work here is really good (as it was on The West Wing).  When he said that sometimes he is lonely, the change of his face was remarkable.

Oh, I have liked Richard Schiff ever since The West Wing, he seems to have a face and voice of fatherly wisdom.  But his Glassman here seems to be more vulnerable, with the daughter that died and his being lonely at times.  I wonder if he is trying to get a life coach for Shaun means that perhaps he anticipates being less available to him in the near future - perhaps with a chronic illness or, even worse, with a terminal diagnosis..?

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11 hours ago, AriAu said:

Saw a few minutes of this episode again and I am becoming more convinced that Lea does not understand Shaun is autistic. Thoughts

I dunno.  Autism, and Ausberger's Syndrome even more, are fairly well known by now, so she would probably think that he's displaying some of the characteristics.  If this was set in a small town, or even 5 years ago, maybe not, but San Jose is part of (or adjacent to) Silicon Valley so residents are probably up on things like this.

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On 11/30/2017 at 9:41 PM, jhlipton said:

I dunno.  Autism, and Ausberger's Syndrome even more, are fairly well known by now, so she would probably think that he's displaying some of the characteristics.  If this was set in a small town, or even 5 years ago, maybe not, but San Jose is part of (or adjacent to) Silicon Valley so residents are probably up on things like this.

I'm thinking along those lines, too. I think she realizes he is bit more than just socially awkward. 

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So hubby and I are totally going to add "could be ringworm" into our family lexicon somehow. We were laughing so hard at that. 

We also wondered about a heart transplant, and figured that perhaps a lack of donors or time on a waiting list was the problem. 

The mother fascinated by something so commonplace for us as a flush toilet and always having water really touched me. How lucky we are here to have these things and take them for granted. When in other parts of the world, it's an luxury. 

Loving this show. And next week looks really intense. Has the show been picked up for more episodes? I hope so. 

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34 minutes ago, QuinnInND said:

The mother fascinated by something so commonplace for us as a flush toilet and always having water really touched me. How lucky we are here to have these things and take them for granted. When in other parts of the world, it's an luxury. 

Yeah, that was a good scene. I liked her, she was such a sweet, lovely woman. Easy to tell where Gabriel got his strength from. 

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Has the show been picked up for more episodes? I hope so. 

It's got a full season order of 18 episodes, so we'll have eight more episodes to look forward to once the holiday break ends (no word yet on what date specifically the show will return after the holidays, though-we'll likely find that out tomorrow night). And the people who keep tabs on shows' renewal chances feel pretty confident this one will get a second season, given how successful it's been :). 

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3 hours ago, QuinnInND said:

Has the show been picked up for more episodes? I hope so. 

I don't think the pick-up for next season has started yet, but as @Annber03 said, this show is pretty much a lock.  TV Grim Reaper has it as 99% certain of renewal.

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Worst PR move at the beginning of the show - we tested 100 children in need of treatment and picked one to save!  Everyone applauded?  What about the other 99 whose parting gift is death?  It was an awful idea!

Claire needs a win and a big one. Soon.

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This episode is the apotheosis of Shaun's character, one that I was sure was going to lead to a falling off in the following episodes.  He has a brilliant idea showing his complex ability to compute in 3D that is broadly accepted and then worked on.  He is getting respect from his peers for his talents.  Being allowed to close the child up at the end of the episode is Melendez treating Murphy like any other resident who has had a good idea, well executed.  He is growing and learning and being accepted.  But the hero's journey is never straight.  The mind-blindedness of Glassman to this growth is a nice contrast, setting up for a big conflict later.

Some nice developments for Claire as well.  Smart, methodical and with a spark of creativity, she saves the day while preserving (pun intended) her integrity as a decent human being.

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