S08.E05: The Big Scary U

[halgia]

A close look at Negan and the lives of the Saviors during the conflict through a familiar set of eyes.

[TigerLynx]

"We've eaten dog together."  That actually made me laugh.

God dammit Rick and Daryl you brain dead idiots.  You have reached a whole new level of stupidity.

"I'll hear your confession."  Seriously, not only do you not shoot Negan, Gabriel, you give him a license to talk even more?

Someone still has a working helicopter?

Edited November 20, 2017 by TigerLynx

[Rachel RSL]

Father Shittin' Pants has to be the dumbest person still alive in the ZA. It was bad enough he didn't shoot Negan the second he found him in the trailer but then Negan actually hands him a loaded gun and he still doesn't shoot him. HELLO shoot Negan, then cover yourself in zombie blood and escape. (And why did it take them so damn long to think of the zombie blood idea anyway? It would have saved us from all that Negan speechifying. Ugh.)

On the plus side, Rick got punched in the face. I'm always down for that.

[xaxat]

Negan's obsession with phallic imagery is so repetitive and boring.

[mightysparrow]

3 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

On the plus side, Rick got punched in the face. I'm always down for that.

Best moment this year.

[ShadowHunter]

A helicopter has not been spotted since Season 3. 

Rick is becoming a bore. I hated the way he handled the situation. 

Darly is becomig a great character again. They wasted time fighting but Rick started it so.

Negan is better in smaller moments. When he was talking about his real wife. Even when Gabriel was starting to put it together the look on his face was good. "I like killing people" good line delivery from Jeffrey. I can watch him more easily. They make him too over the top then it's hard to sit through.

[Spartan Girl]

So Negan had a wife named Lucille whom he lost in the ZA. So glad I don't give a damn. He's still an asshole.

FPP got bit? Again, so glad I don't give a damn. He could have ditched Gregory and he didn't. He could have rid us of Negan, and he didn't. Just another failure of a character.

[SoSueMe]

Just now, ShadowHunter said:

A helicopter has not been spotted since Season 3. 

Rick is becoming a bore. I hated the way he handled the situation. 

Darly is becomig a great character again. They wasted time fighting but Rick started it so.

Negan is better in smaller moments. When he was talking about his real wife. Even when Gabriel was starting to put it together the look on his face was good. "I like killing people" good line delivery from Jeffrey. I can watch him more easily. They make him too over the top then it's hard to sit through.

I vaguely remember seeing one in Ep 1 season 1, reflected in a skyscraper in Atlanta. Maybe I'm wrong.

[shanndee]

Yeah. I'm afraid this one was EFFTWD bad for me.

[SoSueMe]

How will Negan get the yuck off his leather?

[SnarkyTart]

12 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

How will Negan get the yuck off his leather?

There's a walk-in closet in his harem room that's full of nothing but dozens of identical leather jackets, size small.

[mightysparrow]

Is it possible Father Gabriel is working some sort of con?  Does he have some sort of plan to spring Maggie's doctor?  It doesn't make any sense and I fear that Gabriel is going to be yet another good character sacrificed on the altar of fuckery.  But it would be nice if SOMEONE had a plan that actually did some fucking good.

[Dodginblue]

If that really was a helicopter and not just Rick hallucinating, whoever is on it should just keep flying. 

I guess a blue on blue fight is the latest thing for this show.  And this one as pointless and Jesus and Morgan going at each other.  Speaking of Morgan maybe he and Negan will get a chance to bond over the inability to put their respective wives down after they'd turned. 

Since Rick and Daryl didn't have a working vehicle other than the motorcycle, it's just as well the weapons got burned up.  

I should know who Dr. Carson is and how he ended up with the Saviors but I don't think I do know any of that and I also didn't realize that some big part of all this was supposed to be getting a Doc for Maggie, which the last time we saw her she looked okay although I guess eventually she'll need a doctor.  But this seems like another weirdo plot move that repeats what they already did with Maggie being sick and then  the group trying to get her help is how they stumbled into Negan's trap.  Or maybe it's just Father Gabriel's own personal plan, everyone on this show seems to have their own plan within the plan.  

[RedheadZombie]

Rick and Daryl are no longer a kickass duo.  They are now dumb and dumber, and should never be allowed out together again.  What fuckups.

And I'm serious.  That food truck they fucked around and wasted, would have saved them from murdering people in their sleep and starting a war with Negan.  I will now count how many will die because Daryl is a frustrated eunuch* and chose this moment to attempt to overthrow his BFF/BF.  I haven't been able to tolerate him for quite a few seasons now, and he's really pissed me off.  He unilaterally states that the entire Kingdom is now gone, although he knows that's not true, and apparently he no longer considers Maggie and Hilltop a concern.

*Women always get this bullshit, so I'm going to say it of Daryl, too.  The guy needs to get laid to get over this unrequited crush on Rick.  At this point it completely turns my stomach to see him with greasy chunks of dyed chocolate brown hair hanging in his face.  I can't imagine the odor that emanates from him, and he's filthier than the walkers themselves.  Hold him down and shave his head, please!!

[nodorothyparker]

Dr. Carson is the doctor from the Hilltop kidnapped by the Saviors after Negan threw the Sanctuary doctor into the fire.  It's not like there's any real rush to line up a doctor for Maggie.  At the rate this story is moving, it will be another three seasons before she hits her second trimester.

Excepting Eugene, this episode was a race to the bottom of the well of stupidity.

[thuganomics85]

Should have known that the return of Negan would automatically make this episode go over about fifteen minutes.  Have to find some way to let his speechifying be milked for all it is worth!  Other then that, this entire episode seemed to be all about proving that "Hey, he might be a psychopath who murdered numerous unarmed people including a fan favorite, but he isn't that bad!  At least he maintains order!" about him, but I'm not buying that or his bullshit about how he only kills if he needs to.  Even if I was to be really generous and buy that he needed to kill Abe to get everyone in line, killing Glenn was still unnecessary.  And more importantly, he clearly enjoys doing it.  I wouldn't mind this if I felt like the show was acknowledging that he is full of shit, but I came away with the since that I'm actually agree that he is a better kind of evil.  Of course, I might have been willing to roll my eyes and go with the ride if he was actually, you know, interesting.

Granted, the rest of the Saviors are admittedly incompetent without him.  Simon clearly is fine as a right-hand man, but really isn't cut out as the big boss.  Frankly, he better watch his ass because I have feeling Negan really isn't happy with him right now.  I did get a kick out of him messing with Gregory (favorite part of the episode actually.)  Steven Ogg is fun to watch at least.

So, Eugene totally knows Dwight is the traitor, right?  I wonder what he'll do with that info.

Gabriel is now a prisoner and possibly sick, but I'm thinking that is a fake-out and he didn't actually get bitten.

Meanwhile, Daryl and Rick are off doing a version of The Walking Dead: Civil War, with Daryl as the dirty, shaggy Tony Stark, and Rick as the bearded, self-righteous Steve Rodgers.  Except both of them are much stupider then their Marvel counterparts.

Oh, boy!  Next week's previews are really not giving me much hope here. 

[bow]

This episode seemed painfully slow.

Daryl is starting to drive me crazy. Just follow the plan, arrow man. I guess that gun that they really needed is toast now.

A helicopter, that should be interesting. Maybe it’ll come back in season 20. Maybe sooner if the cast of Fear the Walking Dead is on it.

Eugene better keep his mouth shut.

Did Gabriel get bit? Looks like it. And I finally thought he was becoming an interesting character.

[peach]

This show is more satisfying if you're Team Saviors.  

[mightysparrow]

It's interesting that all of a sudden Rick is Gandhi.  Didn't this war start because he forced the Alexandrians to kill Negan's crew WHILE THEY SLEPT?  And I do believe he attacked the Oceanside community, took all their weapons and left them defenseless.   Now he doesn't want to alienate the Saviours?  NOW???  Rick is all big and bad when he thinks his opponent is too weak to fight back. 

Rick should go get himself a leather jacket because he and Neagan aren't that far apart.

[peach]

How did Rick and Daryl know what happened to the Kingdom?  They didn't seem too concerned about it, either. 

[bow]

2 hours ago, SoSueMe said:

How will Negan get the yuck off his leather?

I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING!!!

[thuganomics85]

Quote

How did Rick and Daryl know what happened to the Kingdom?  They didn't seem too concerned about it, either. 

I believe the Savior that Rick stabbed last week told them what they did before he died.  And he was friendly enough to let them know that Ezekiel ("The King"), Jerry ("axe-wielding guy"), and Carol ("short-hair woman") were the only survivors, so therefore Rick and Daryl where just like "Oh, so all the guys whose names we know are still alive?  That's cool, I guess!  I mean, it sucks for all the nameless folks who probably have family and loved ones, but we don't know them, so, again, cool!" 

[Christi]

who is this Red Machete Person?

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I would watch an entire episode of Daryl (and to a lesser extent Rick) being given a good scrub down. Not because I want to see him naked but because it would be so satisfying to see the grime get scrubbed off. It'd be like those infomercials that show a sponge just cutting straight through grease and rust. Which, they would need one of those to then clean the shower after they're done with him/them. Also if Jesus could lend Daryl a pony tail holder, that'd be lovely. Maybe they can French braid each other's hair (I actually think Jesus' hair is lovely, but Tom Payne could have any style of hair, and I'd still probably find it attractive just cause it's him).

Edited November 20, 2017 by MVFrostsMyPie

[BellyLaughter]

No wonder they had to kill the CGI tiger...they can’t even afford anti fog treatment for their camera lens! 

[Gobi]

Was the "Alyssa" tombstone in the ongoing Red Machete saga a subtle hint about the coming fate of a FTWD character? 

[Star Aristille]

5 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Was the "Alyssa" tombstone in the ongoing Red Machete saga a subtle hint about the coming fate of a FTWD character? 

No.  Just the name of the sister of the girl from the mini-sodes.

4 hours ago, Christi said:

who is this Red Machete Person?

I'm more wondering how many more losses does she have to suffer?

[ttgreif]

7 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

There's a walk-in closet in his harem room that's full of nothing but dozens of identical leather jackets, size small.

Arnie's Last Action Hero style I guess....

[Gobi]

16 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

No.  Just the name of the sister of the girl from the mini-sodes.

I'm more wondering how many more losses does she have to suffer?

I know they're different characters, just wondering why they chose that particular name.

[CletusMusashi]

The jacket will spray off just fine. You can dissolve an entire zombie just by squirting it with a hose, remember?

I have to say that this was, sadly, probably the least boring episode of the season. Which ain't saying much. Because it was still dull enough that I'm actually watching the Red Machete shorts. Which are just weird. I mean, for most of the show Rick didn't even have a machete. His main personal weapon is the Colt Python. (FYI, that's totally gonna be my porn star name some day.) Why can't they show us the history of Michonne's katana, or Ezekiel's sword cane, or, hell, even Negan's girl jacket?

[Star Aristille]

8 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

I have to say that this was, sadly, probably the least boring episode of the season. Which ain't saying much. Because it was still dull enough that I'm actually watching the Red Machete shorts. Which are just weird. I mean, for most of the show Rick didn't even have a machete.

Meh.  I don't mind watching snippets of other characters dealing with the Zombie Apocalypse far away from our main characters.  It's a good reminder that it's going on in other parts of the country (and probably the world), not just with Rick and his crew.  I enjoyed last season's Passage, for example (especially considering that it focused on two female characters trying to survive -- and both of color, to boot!).  If anything, it's a nice, brief break from the main characters that I appreciate.  I know I'm the only one, but that's what "YMMV" is for.

Anyway, Michonne seems to be back in action next week.  Any episode with her is always appreciated for me.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Star Aristille

[GreyBunny]

Oh facepalm.

Gabe should have shot Negan during the escape through the zombies.   He told Gabe that the Saviors were a bunch of undisciplined animals before he arrived, shoot him and they revert to their fractured state.  That's how cults of personality work - shoot the leader and the cult falls apart.  It would save CDB a lot of effort.  But no, they have to do things the hard, stupid way.

Ugh.

Oh, so the guns were also destroyed with the dynamite?  That's the second recent truckload of goodies that Rick and Daryl have screwed up (the first being the truck that rolled into the lake when they got ambushed by Jesus).  Those two need to not go on supply runs together anymore, they lose more stuff than they collect.
 

Edited November 21, 2017 by GreyBunny

[Gobi]

So, does anyone know what the episode title means?

Liked how they cut from Rick and Darryl's fight to Eugene playing an equally realistic video game of a boxing match.

[Star Aristille]

1 minute ago, Gobi said:

So, does anyone know what the episode title means?

The title was specifically said by Gregory in the first few minutes of the episode.  They have to account for the big "u" -- the unknown factors.

[CletusMusashi]

Fell asleep during TTD, so of course I woke up way too early today. Figured instead of struggling for two hours to get another twenty minutes of sleep I'd just make some coffee and rewatch the episode. Here are my thoughys on the early part of it:

I like that FPP was concerned about fruitlessness. After all, nothing fills out those shitting pants quite like fruit.

Is Simon really stupid enough to believe Gregory? Is anyone stupid enough to believe Gregory? He's got to be doing a "good cop" schtick, just to screw with his head. Also, is there anybody, anywhere. who looks more like a guy named "Simon" than Simon does? Negan look slike a Todd or a Scott, but Simon is like the Simonyest Simon that ever simed.

I actually liked Dwight ar the meeting. "Dude, I've heard weasels squirm before. Can I just grab a smoke while nothing interesting is happening?"

JDM really had no idea what to do with Lucille for most of that meeting. He starts out rubbing his bare hand on the spiny zombie-bashing part... yeah, that's a great idea. Then when he wants to hand gesture, he has to do an awkwatd lap-balancing act, while being careful not to rip his pants, because 28W34L jeans are kind of hard to come by in the ZA. Finally, by the time he has an excuse to start hitting the table, he's like "Yes, finally I can just hold this thing normally. You know, you guys are rude. Coral would have given Lucille her own chair. And lemonade."

They sort of explained the rationale about why Negan agreed to the pow wow, except for the "Dude, you do know they can just shoot you, right?" factor. The scene would have played better if we saw them put some Kevlar under their jackets. 

And, when we first saw When Negan met PP, he walked up behind him and made the same joke three times. This time, when he first met him, he immediately tackled and searchd him. It can't be both. So... is Negan still actually just rambling on about the shitting pants? Is FPP so bored with it that he's concocted this entire episode as a dream sequence? Maybe he imagined the last few weeks, too, and eventually Shiva will still come charging in and eat Negan.

More randomness to follow. I'm going back to my rewatch.

Edited November 20, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[Haleth]

Seth Gillam (Gilliam?) was wonderful in this epi.  His "take your confession" line was oddly comforting and chilling at the same time.  I certainly hope he's running a con since his character has been getting more and more interesting.  Of course it will probably be weeks before we see him again.

[BetyBee]

I actually liked the episode, other than Negan's obsession with his privates (not private in his case).  The speechifying was not as over the top as usual.  Simon is a great character and I do think he's in trouble with Negan.  "Dr. Smartypants" is holding onto what he knows about Dwight so far.  Maybe he'll see to it that someone else takes the fall. 

 

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, Star Aristille said:

The title was specifically said by Gregory in the first few minutes of the episode.  They have to account for the big "u" -- the unknown factors.

Thanks.

[DEL901]

So, are we still on the same day we started the season with?

[CletusMusashi]

We're going to be on the same day we started the season with until Judith has her bat mitzvah.

[festivus]

This shit is so bad I can't even snark on it. At least there were a few moments when you can see that JDM actually is a good actor. I still want Negan gone though. I want him gone. 

 

The only good part was Eugene. Will he rat out Dwight? I honestly don't know.

[CletusMusashi]

I don't know how much of it was just low expectations, but I did like this slightly better the second time than the first. One thing I get a kick out of is that FPP actually seems to slightly enjoy the fact that Negan thinks he's creepy. Usually he's the straightlaced one, here he gets to be the one making action hero jokes about zombie guts. I don't care how much he talks about loving people; a big part of his motivation there was squicking out Negan. 

[JackONeill]

4 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

So, are we still on the same day we started the season with?

And this to me is the greatest failure (from many) of this show.

When was it that Glenn and Abe were brutally killed? Like a day and a half ago in show-time? (I’m being sarcastic...but only a bit.)

Yet in real time, it’s been like twenty years. (Again, sarcastic.) We have a new president; people have married or divorced; kids have grown; other, better shows have come and gone. Yet this show is still at the same point in time it was, what, two years ago?!?

Now here we are watching the same old bull shit, and Negan is still alive. Whatever suspense, thrill, excitement, revenge, whatever-you-what-to-call-it, has been squandered in the interim. Honestly, I no longer care that Glenn and Abe were killed. It happened too long ago, and TPTB have failed to maintain any suspense. Yeah, I don’t like Negan. But you know what? This show has made it so I like NO ONE.

TPTB have, IMO, ruined what could have been a good thing.

[ghoulina]

Wow. This was one boring episode. I have little to say. I think I nodded off a few times. Did we really need an extra 15 minutes for THIS? 

I don't care about Negan. I don't care about his backstory. I didn't need a flashback as to what happened before CDB attacked.  His "confession" to Gabriel was a big ole yawn to me, and I'm kind of pissed with what they're doing with Gabriel's character. He should have smoked Negan's ass the minute he heard that voice. 

Plus, it was so dark in that container they were in, I couldn't tell what was going on half the time. I kept asking myself, "Did he just kill Gabe?" "Wait, where IS Gabriel? I thought he was right there, now he's over there?"

But apparently Gabriel got bit. So that's fun. Negan, the world's most boring villain, continues to defy the odds, but an interesting character who was previously having a compelling arc is now likely to bite it. 

Eugene is now sitting in at important meetings at the Sanctuary? Okay then. And what's with the loud, wind-tunnel effect they use in that building? It's obnoxious. 

Well, that was the shortest worker's revolution ever. The one part of the episode that had potential to be interesting and it was over before it began. Again....yawn. 

And WHAT was that shit with Daryl and Rick? Was that supposed to be comical? I couldn't tell. One minute they're legit choking each other out, then they're holding hands and running from an explosion? I did not get the point of that entire segment.....unless it was to make me roll my eyes. 

I did like the callback to "choke holds" and I see "Helicopter Boy" has returned. Too bad Morales isn't alive to see it. 

Other than that, I got nothing. What a waste of my evening. If the GPK are back next week, I'm going to vomit. 

[peach]

2 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

 He told Gabe that the Saviors were a bunch of undisciplined animals before he arrived, shoot him and they revert to their fractured state. 

Seems like it was a great idea to bring them back to Hilltop, Jesus.

 

26 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

And this to me is the greatest failure (from many) of this show.

When was it that Glenn and Abe were brutally killed? Like a day and a half ago in show-time? (I’m being sarcastic...but only a bit.)

Yet in real time, it’s been like twenty years. (Again, sarcastic.) We have a new president; people have married or divorced; kids have grown; other, better shows have come and gone. Yet this show is still at the same point in time it was, what, two years ago?!?

I started watching the first season because I thought my 8th grade son was interested in something inappropriate for his age.  He convinced me to let him watch it, and we were both obsessed with it for a few years.  He is now 21 years old, a full adult, and a junior in college.  while the show is spinning its wheels in the mud.  He's home for Thanksgiving break, and he told me last night he would leave the room if I turned on TWD, because it's such crap.  lol  In fact, we're sick of zombies all together.  The entire GENRE is played out while this has gone on.  Now it's replicants and robots and AI.  Honestly, if I couldn't make fun of it on this board, I wouldn't watch it at all.

35 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

 Whatever suspense, thrill, excitement, revenge, whatever-you-what-to-call-it, has been squandered in the interim. Honestly, I no longer care that Glenn and Abe were killed. It happened too long ago, and TPTB have failed to maintain any suspense. Yeah, I don’t like Negan. But you know what? This show has made it so I like NO ONE.

And the suspense isn't just ruined by them drawing out the series.  Their insistence on jumping back and forth in time in EVERY episode ruins it as they go along as well.  We already know what happened to Gregory, so going back to some kind of "tense" meeting is dumb.  At the end of the season someone should recut it in linear order. 

Even Maggie no longer cares about Glenn being killed.  lol  I'm just happy for Steven Yeun to be free of this nonsense.

[nodorothyparker]

Worse, the show has so muddied the waters of who did what to who and who started it and based subsequent storytelling on so much blatant stupidity that I'm struggling to know who or what I'm supposed to be rooting for anymore.  When your biggest baddest big bad is making more sense in calling out the initial attack on the outpost for what it was, murdering people in their sleep, and correctly identifying that your lead's greatest accomplishment seems to be getting people killed while that lead can't even be bothered to react to news that an ally he did his best to browbeat into joining him has been mostly wiped out because he's too busy getting into pointless fistfights with his lieutenant, that's a problem.  The Kingdom crew died for those weapons he so cavalierly let get blown up.  Original recipe Alexandrians like Eric died so he could hunt for those weapons.  The only answer the show seems to be able to come up with as to why anyone should be following Rick at this point is that he isn't Negan and offers up as evidence that he's running a disorganized cult of personality that falls apart 5 minutes after he's not sitting at the head of the world's worst staff meeting.  

Speaking of which, I know this episode too is still the same damn day, but they've been holed up for what a couple of hours tops and they're already rationing supplies?  You want to be the biggest baddest swinging dicks (Hey, if Negan can go there umpteen times an episode so can I.) in the countryside and the moment a horde surrounds you you've got nothing but cut off supplies and try to out asshole each other?  For a show that drags so much, this was also like a speed read through labor negotiations with the workers rising up 5 minutes later only to put down a whole 5 minutes after that.

I couldn't make out half of what was going in the shipping container/trailer/whatever Negan and Gabriel were in either.  I honestly thought for a bit that Gabriel had been baseball batted to death and realized I didn't much care.  It's great that you want to believe there's a bigger purpose to all this, Gabriel, but do you know what would have offered you the greatest purpose of all?  Shooting the man responsible for so much of the carnage every last one of you is engulfed in now when he hands you a loaded gun and walks out ahead of you with his back to you.  If Negan's big backstory is that he's yet another of the couldn't put my wife down when I should have patrol, Carl would like to have a word with you as the hardest, baddest one of all.

My youngest was a baby when this show started.  Now she's nearly first season Carl's age,  Meanwhile, less than two years later showtime ...

[EllenC]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

Seth Gillam (Gilliam?) was wonderful in this epi.  His "take your confession" line was oddly comforting and chilling at the same time.  I certainly hope he's running a con since his character has been getting more and more interesting.  Of course it will probably be weeks before we see him again.

 

1 hour ago, festivus said:

This shit is so bad I can't even snark on it. At least there were a few moments when you can see that JDM actually is a good actor. I still want Negan gone though. I want him gone. 

 

The only good part was Eugene. Will he rat out Dwight? I honestly don't know.

I feel like I could be really interested in the Gabriel (sure, they're probably about to kill off a character that I think actually still has an interesting story to tell), Eugene and Dwight part of this episode -- if I wasn't so annoyed, distracted and OVER Negan and his constant phallic jokes (and I do actually like JDM as an actor, usually.). If you're going to give me some of his backstory, which I don't care about at all at this point, at least tell me that jacket belonged to his late wife and he can't bear to give it up.

As for Rick and Daryl, I just wanted Michonne to show up and shut down their nonsense. Clearly she and Carol need to be in charge.

... Is it bad that when I saw a helicopter, my first thought was that the Governor was here to kill Negan? 

[Save Yourself]

I’ve moved house 3 times, gone through fertility treatment, fallen pregnant and had a baby who is now 13 months old during CDB’s ‘2 year’ adventure ?

Edited November 20, 2017 by Save Yourself

[Door]

11 hours ago, xaxat said:

Negan's obsession with phallic imagery is so repetitive and boring.

I blame the writers, who are all apparently teenage boys.

Poor Father PP, has to listen to Negan and then gets Plot Fever. 

I miss how good this show used to be. I really do.

[TigerLynx]

34 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

The only answer the show seems to be able to come up with as to why anyone should be following Rick at this point is that he isn't Negan and offers up as evidence that he's running a disorganized cult of personality that falls apart 5 minutes after he's not sitting at the head of the world's worst staff meeting.  

Hee!!!  The fact that those are Negan's top lieutenants and Rick's group still can't manage to take them out makes all this so much dumber.  Apparently, this is a battle between the most idiotic people to ever live.

 

14 minutes ago, EllenC said:

As for Rick and Daryl, I just wanted Michonne to show up and shut down their nonsense. Clearly she and Carol need to be in charge. 

Yes, they do.