S03.E07: Welcome To The Jungle

[scarynikki12]

Quote

With Sara out of commission, the team finds a new Anachronism that leads them to the jungles of Vietnam and right in the middle of the war.

 

[scarynikki12]

I still hate Nate but I’m willing to acknowledge he worked well opposite Mick. 

I love Grodd so that was fun for me. And he’s paired with Darhk!

My favorite part is that no one stepped in to be replacement captain. They were a team while Sara was out. I should stop worrying about this show. 

Her return via fork in pie was awesome. And she hugged Jax and gave him a Big Sister kiss!! 

 

[KirkB]

I've always liked Grodd. But was it my imagination or was he smaller than usual? I swear I remember him being taller than that.

[Jediknight]

Isaac Newton knocked out a mind controlled by Grodd Sara, and he did it with a frying pan.  What other show can you say that sentence about?  Also, Madame Curie at the last of the pecan pie that Jefferson's mom made.

I love this show.

[Sakura12]

I still enjoyed this episode even with the minimal Sara. 

I'm happy Mick got some closure with his daddy issues. Which is not something I ever thought I'd say, he has really grown on this series. I was wondering when Amaya was going to use her gorilla spirit to talk to Grodd, it almost worked. Of course he then joins Darkh's new legion of magical doom. I also liked Jax sharing his feelings with comatose Sara. 

This show is really great at the team moments like them all sharing pie at the end and Sara throwing a ninja star at Martin's pie. 

Now I want some pecan pie. 

[benteen]

It's amazing all the stuff this show can throw together and make work.  Vietnam, Grodd, Mick meeting his father, Stein pulling geniuses from the past, etc.  Really enjoyed this episode and liked the stuff between Mick and his father a lot.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

I still hate Nate but I’m willing to acknowledge he worked well opposite Mick. 

I love Grodd so that was fun for me. And he’s paired with Darhk!

My favorite part is that no one stepped in to be replacement captain. They were a team while Sara was out. I should stop worrying about this show. 

Her return via fork in pie was awesome. And she hugged Jax and gave him a Big Sister kiss!! 

 

Exactly.. The big sis lil bro connection is strong..  And i laffed when she did that hug n kiss.. and thought...my sis does that to me all the time.. Even tho i see it i hooe its spoken about in future episodes.. The closeness of those 2...Tho no one explicitly stood up for Sara.. Jax made it known they wouldn't be sitting around doing nothing and he picked the anachronism and he stayed behind so while he wasn't batking out orders he somewhat filled the role as i expected him to... 

[thuganomics85]

Gorilla Grodd!  Always great to see him even though I always imagine that somewhere, a CW accountant is wincing due to how much be probably causes their budget to go over.  But I still like how menacing he is, but also sympathetic at time, due to everything he gone through and how dickish humanity admittedly can be. At least the Legends defeated him for now, but him working with Damien is going to be bad news for everyone!

Glad the lack of Mick last week meant he was going to a centric episode this go around!  I like that the episode reminded everyone of his pretty dark past and it was good seeing him interact with his dad, and learn to overcome his issues due to his upbringing.  Again, I never thought that the guy who stared out as Snart's colorful sidekick on The Flash would end up being one of the breakout stars here, and that Dominic Purcell would actually impress me as he does with his range. I'm glad this show turned him from an one-note character into something much, much more.

Actually, everyone was used pretty well here.  Nate actually had his moments opposite of Mick, liked Amaya trying to talk down Grodd, Jefferson saving LBJ (yes, that happened), Martin with Newton and the rest of the gang of famous intellects was fun, and Ray and Zari were a fun pair.  Really, I can safely say that Zari already feels like a natural part of the group, which is quite the complement.  The actress really works well off of everyone.  Although Zari really needs to learn the golden rule where if you have something you want to keep a secret, don't tell Mick!

Not surprised Sara wasn't in the background for this one, although she still got to participate in a brief fight scene, which lead to Caity Lotz fighting Victor Garber, which is something I never thought I would see, even if it was mainly just him running away, until Newton saved the day (of course he would!)  But I'm guessing there will be quite a lot of Sara in the crossover next week.

[Maelstrom]

Excellent ep tonight. Last week had far too little Mick for my tastes, but this one definitely made up for it. (I’ve never been a fan of split filming schedules, but oh well). I love the development they’ve given to Mick and the layers they’ve added to his character over the course of the series. Even though they don’t delve into his past a lot, when they do they do it well. And DP really nailed his scenes, both with his tv dad and with Nate. I liked DP when he starred on John Doe all,those years ago, and beneath Mick’s growling and crazy eyes, DP can still bring it. And shockingly, I actually enjoyed watching Nate tonight, which is nothing short of a miracle. Nicely done, show. Now don’t make us wait two more seasons for more of Mick confronting his past.

I’ve never watched Flash so I don’t know much about Grodd, but I actually felt bad for him here. I’m glad they didn’t kill him off in a fiery Napalm hellscape, but seeing his team up with Dark might be a bit much, in the sense that Dark always seems to get the better of the Legends no matter what. And adding a giant telepathic gorilla to that doesn’t sound like a positive for Our Heroes.

Even with minimal screen time Sara still got to be awesome and eat pie! Loved the big group Thanksgiving dinner. It’s one of my favorite aspects of this show that the team is really a big family - they may not always like each other or get along, but somehow being misfits everywhere else makes them the perfect family. This crazy show is a gem.

[Lantern7]

More insanity this week. I wonder what the team will offer in the big crossover. My guess? Ollie and Barry will have things wrapped up in the first hour, and then the Legends fuck everything to hell. Except for Sara, who is always awesome.

Of course Mick meets his dad. And, of course, his dad has the comically gravelly voice and flamethrower. The guy screamed, "If he wasn't more in demand these days, we totally would've grabbed Michael Rooker. We wouldn't have to been sprayed with blue paint." Nice that Nate helped out Mick. I don't think there was a "goob-off" between him and Ray this week.

Grodd in the 'Nam. It just works, y'know? And it gives the writers excuses to break out lines like "Kneel before Grodd!" and "There is no Sara, only Grodd!" Not sure how he'll work with Dark and the Big Bad. I mean, they were stacked around without the super-smart gorilla with telepathic and telekinetic powers.

Martin has been consulting with historic figures to untangle him from Jax. See, this shit is what happens when Sara's in a coma. In Stein's defense, he doesn't have the ability to conduct multiversal conference calls with other versions of himself. That's a pity . . . I heard he's got evil relatives in the MCU. Well, some Marvel universe, anyway.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

And adding a giant telepathic gorilla to that doesn’t sound like a positive for Our Heroes.

Grodd is a scary mother-fucker.  He's also really smart.  And he can read minds.  And he can control minds.  I'm looking forward to the first time he turns Nora into a speech puppet when he has a conversation with Darkh.

[TDT]

Shades of Kong:Skull Island in this episode LOL

I assume Damien,Nora and Grodd(theres a good sitcom title there xD )will be part of the big crossover next week,along w/ WM making his final curtain call as Snart/Captain Cold

Edited November 22, 2017 by TDT

[Starfish35]

7 hours ago, KirkB said:

I've always liked Grodd. But was it my imagination or was he smaller than usual? I swear I remember him being taller than that.

I was thinking the same thing. I remembered him being a lot bigger.  

[UNOSEZ]

Here's a pretty interesting idea... In breaking up Firestorm... They could turn jax into a completely new hero with a diff power set... Not saying it could happen.. But i could fan wank a scenario where whatever mad science they use to uncouple jax and stein has unintended effects... Would be a nice little wrinkle

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

Here's a pretty interesting idea... In breaking up Firestorm... They could turn jax into a completely new hero with a diff power set... Not saying it could happen.. But i could fan wank a scenario where whatever mad science they use to uncouple jax and stein has unintended effects... Would be a nice little wrinkle

The main wrinkle with your wrinkle is that the "new hero" would need to be someone that already exists within the DC universe - and one whose power suite wouldn't cripple the FX budget (Green Lantern is right out).  Maybe a cool twist is that in trying to remove the part of the matrix from Stein, they end up putting the whole thing into him and not Jax.  So, Stein remains Firestorm (and can still sometimes guest on the various Flarrowverse shows, including Black Lightning while Jax gets completely depowered.  For a time, anyway.  The totems are kind of a thing this season, so perhaps Jax will end up with the Earth or Fire totem.  Or perhaps he'll even get the Water totem if/when they take it from Kuasa. 

Or perhaps Jax ends up with the Earth totem, Mick gets the Fire totem and Kuasa reforms and joins the Legends next season with Nate and Amaya departing the Waverider to live together in 1942.  And then Nate's place gets taken by John Constantine.

[dippydee]

At this point I think the writers just pull random things out a of a hat to get their episode stories. Grodd. Vietnam. LBJ. Issac Newton.... and go! And somehow they make it work! I think the key is to keep it fun. I used to watch all the DC shows but  I’ve dropped them all one by one. Arrow is too grim for me, I don’t enjoy what Flash does to its female characters and I gave up Supergirl after the MonEl show but Legends has only gotten better as it’s gone on. It’s managed to capture the fun of it all but still shows heart.

Though I don’t usually enjoy episodes with minimal Sara I really loved this one. It helped a lot that we got lots of Mick instead. I also really liked that they weren’t total screw ups this time. Yes things went sideways but the team (even Nate!) didn’t do anything as dumb as they usually do. Mick even managed to get some insight into his dad.

8 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

It’s one of my favorite aspects of this show that the team is really a big family - they may not always like each other or get along, but somehow being misfits everywhere else makes them the perfect family. This crazy show is a gem.

This! I really love the group dynamics they’ve built. They might all be all sorts of screwed up but they’re a totally accepting family for each other. It’s really kind of sweet. It’s also amazing to me that the loner, angsty Sara who we first saw in Arrow is basically the team patent. There wasn’t even a real question of having a temporary captain when she was out of commission, they all just pulled together to  do the job.

[UNOSEZ]

39 minutes ago, johntfs said:

The main wrinkle with your wrinkle is that the "new hero" would need to be someone that already exists within the DC universe - and one whose power suite wouldn't cripple the FX budget (Green Lantern is right out).  Maybe a cool twist is that in trying to remove the part of the matrix from Stein, they end up putting the whole thing into him and not Jax.  So, Stein remains Firestorm (and can still sometimes guest on the various Flarrowverse shows, including Black Lightning while Jax gets completely depowered.  For a time, anyway.  The totems are kind of a thing this season, so perhaps Jax will end up with the Earth or Fire totem.  Or perhaps he'll even get the Water totem if/when they take it from Kuasa. 

Or perhaps Jax ends up with the Earth totem, Mick gets the Fire totem and Kuasa reforms and joins the Legends next season with Nate and Amaya departing the Waverider to live together in 1942.  And then Nate's place gets taken by John Constantine.

While interesting that starts to sound like captain planet... There are a ton of heroes we barely ever see in the books I'm sure they could come up with something... Or just same ol jax with a new(cheaper to produce)  power set... One that doesn't always make it so hes nerfed on the sidelines while stuff us going on.. I mean odds are they'll just make him firestorm and use his powers(which would solve almost all their fights)  sparingly

[johntfs]

10 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

While interesting that starts to sound like captain planet... There are a ton of heroes we barely ever see in the books I'm sure they could come up with something... Or just same ol jax with a new(cheaper to produce)  power set... One that doesn't always make it so hes nerfed on the sidelines while stuff us going on.. I mean odds are they'll just make him firestorm and use his powers(which would solve almost all their fights)  sparingly

Yeah, but it's a bit boring for this show.  They don't really need to give the Fire totem to Mick (I think someone else already has it anyway) since he's fine as Heat Wave.  Kuasa probably works better as a villain, too.  Assuming Amaya and Nate leave, if Jax got the Earth totem, the number of totems in Team Time Bandits stays at two.  Also, if Jax gets the Earth totem, perhaps he can be a version of Sand, who also has connection to the JSA and with Kendra Saunders, who was once on the team and could potentially come back.  Especially if Hawkdouche is killed by time-traveling duck hunters "No, you don't understand.  They're a whole family of hunters.  Like a, a, duck dynasty!"

[Sakura12]

Wasn't there a single Firestorm in the comics? Jax can just be Firestorm without Stein in his head. Or maybe he can merge with Gideon and she can join the team in Jax's head on missions. That way we keep it with the characters we already know and have the bonus of Jax getting Gideon's snarky remarks while he fights. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Sakura12

[Maelstrom]

I forgot to mention last night that it’s interesting they acknowledged for the first time that these anachronisms keep turning up around their own ancestors, or younger self in Ray’s case. What are the odds? Hmm...

[Lugal]

Great episode!  I wonder if Grodd (or more likely his FX budget) is the reason they've been light on Firestorm for the past few episodes.  Dominic Purcell really shone in this episode, especially with Rory's limited range of emotional expression, DP sold it.  He even made Nate watchable.  I would be fine with Nate leaving, but I would really hate to lose Amaya.  I was wondering how her interaction with Grodd would go, given their backgrounds (I don't watch the Flash, so I don't how they changed Grodd's origins, but it looked like he's not from Gorilla City).  It was also a nice touch that Zari's a little more sympathetic to him when Argus was brought up.

Franz Drameh got a lot of good scenes in this episode, dealing with the fact that he may not have superpowers after they separate Firestorm.  It was also fun to see Dianne Doan (I was probably in the minority in that I didn't mind her on Vikings).

Not enough Caity Lotz for me, but she did sell every scene she was in (even the comatose ones).  The whole ending was just awesome with Stein wondering where Sara is only to have the doors open and she walks in Big Damn Hero style, but then we get "There is no Sara, only Grodd" only to have her taken out by Isaac Newton with a frying pan.  Really did not see that one coming.

And seriously Marie Curie, you eat the pie and put the empty container back in the fridge?  You monster!

[kirinan]

I don't really care for Grodd, but he didn't bother me as much here as he does in The Flash. Maybe because this show is so nuts that what the heck, you might as well throw a talking gorilla in the mix. The best part of the show for me was Mick and his father, and this is the best I've liked Nate so far (but I'll deny it if anyone outside this topic says I said it, LOL).

Mick for the win, as always.

Edited November 22, 2017 by kirinan

[Lady Calypso]

Once again, what a fun episode! I really enjoy learning about the Vietnam War, mostly in terms of film, so watching an episode about Vietnam was so fascinating to me. Add in Grodd, who still makes me chuckle, and add in more of Mick and his backstory, and you get a pretty damn good episode.

I like that they used Mick more this episode. I've always wanted more on him as a person, and DP delivered. I liked seeing his dad and what he was like. It seems like the war affected his dad, which affected his relationship with Mick. At least Mick knew that he couldn't change that dynamic, or else he would change his path completely.

Also, Mick/Nate team-up is actually not bad. One of the rare times that Nate just isn't spewing quirky one liners and being a total moron. I like Serious Nate, and I like that he stepped up to be Mick's friend when he realized how much this trip was affecting the typically grumpy Mick. 

I also really like the Ray/Amaya scenes. I guess if they're going to insist that Amaya/Mick never share scenes ever again, Ray's the next best choice. 

I still laugh at Zari's incredulousness at time travel. She's basically speaking for all of us, and I love it. She's such an awesome character. 

It was nice to see Stein and Jax get to do separate things for the mission. I think Jax just really wants to prove to himself that he'll still be of use on the team, even without Firestorm. God, I hope Jax and Stein get split up and get to both be happy. They really are setting up the arc to be successful.

Minimal Sara, but that's understandable, as Caity probably was starting to film the crossover at this time.

Of course Amaya is the one to almost get through to Grodd before Mick, his dad, and the other soldiers showed up. I love little details like Amaya's connection to animals, that they add in. Some shows forget when their characters have strengths useful to the plot, all to sacrifice it to other characters they insist need to be central to a plot.

[CletusMusashi]

I watch the show fairly sporadically, and in fact only clicked on it this week by accident when I went to the CW site to catch up on Flash. But I figured I'd keep it on until I got bored, and wound up pretty much enjoying the whole thing. Still not sure how the WW3 plan makes any sense, though. You're gonn akill the president, in Vietnam, and then the whole world is going to get buked, except Vietnam? Monjey Dude, you're gonna be sitting at Ground Zero. Telepathy does not stop missiles. And also, if the world is blasted so hard that humanity is wiped out, or even just univerally knocked back to the stone age, won't those condidtions be even worse for gorillas? A gorilla's digestive system is designed mostly for leaves. Scavenging canned beefaroni after the apoclypse would be even worse for Grodd than for any human survivors.

[Proteus]

So was Mick abused as a child? I never really understood why he let his parents burn to death.

This was a really good episode for DP. I'm glad to see a Mick centered episode.

But I never want an episode with minimal Sara again.

I like Grodd. So I'm glad he's on Legends now.

[tennisgurl]

"And then Issac Newton knocked out Sara with a frying pan while she was possessed by a telepathic gorilla trying to take over the time ship..." Oh my God, what even is this show? I adore it so much, its so deeply crazy, but it works so well. I am just so impressed at how they can take so many ideas and tones and characters and make them all work so well. This season had a few hiccups early on, but its been firing on all cylinders for the last few weeks, delivering wacky hijinks, some solid superhero action, and really great character develipment. 

I am so glad we got a Mick centric episode, and it was great getting more into his issues and his backstory. Him getting some perspective on his (abusive, neglectful or both) father and on himself was really well done, and its amazing how much Mick has grown as a character over the course of the series. There were some laughs, but it was mostly really serious, especially as Micks dad was having a total meltdown, and when Mick was setting his skin on fire. Thats...really messed up. I also enjoyed his interaction with Nate, and how they played off each other. Nate is rather hit or miss, but I think he works well when he isn't acting like an idiot to move the plot along or being trapped in boring romantic subplots. It was nice seeing him trying to be a supportive friend, even when he is clearly still a bit freaked out by Micks darker side. 

Grodd is always an interesting villain, and while I do feel for him and his tragic past, I also think the guy/gorilla is an asshole. Over on The Flash, they even sent him to Gorilla City in another dimension after he had anther rampage because he hated humanity and they felt bad for him. Then, he showed up again, and it turned out that he hated Gorilla City too, and tried to take it over and use the gorillas to destroy the world again! Its like that old saying, Grodd, about how if you walk around all day and you keep meeting assholes, chances are, your the asshole. Your the asshole, Grodd. I enjoyed seeing him and Amaya connect though, and it made a lot of sense. Also, DD really summed up Nam pretty well. "Terrible war, bitchin soundtrack." 

Lots of great team interaction this week in general. I already mentioned Nate and Mick, but we also had good stuff between Jax and Martin, Amaya and Ray, Ray and Zari, Jax confessing his fears to a comatose Sara, and Martin and the genius team. Plus we got that wonderful scene of the gang happily eating Lady Bs pie together, and then everyone welcoming Sara back. The little head kiss she gave Jax was seriously the cutest thing in the word. They might be a mess and get on each others nerves and break time from time to time, but I do believe that they love each other like a family. 

[Xantar]

As a Vietnamese person, I like that they got a Vietnamese actress (instead of some other Asian ethnicity) to play the local woman. And she was able to correctly pronounce Ong Troi Moi (while everybody else realistically butchered it). 

[johntfs]

One thing I really appreciated was how they let Amaya have that "What happened to men?" line.  It's actually a pretty mean-spirited, judgemental question that indicates that she considers men being in touch with and sharing their emotions to be a sign of weakness.  It's pretty reasonable that someone like her shaped in the 1930s and 40s would have an attitude like that.  Still, after traveling with the Legends, it's a pretty shitty thing to say.  It's like she's being a version of the grandparent who sometimes says awful racist things that were normal in his or her time, but really bad by today's standards.

And I loved that.  There's a strong tendency to over-compensate with characters, especially women, of color.  To give them all positive characteristics instead of treatment as flawed people just like everyone else.  So yes, Amaya, who is brave, kind and empathetic enough to reach out to a violent creature like Grodd can also hold some pretty crappy opinions as well.  A man who cries and shares his feelings isn't a sensitive soul in Amaya's eyes.  He's a weak-ass bitch who needs to man the fuck up.  And that's awesome to me.

[Sakura12]

3 minutes ago, johntfs said:

One thing I really appreciated was how they let Amaya have that "What happened to men?" line.  It's actually a pretty mean-spirited, judgemental question that indicates that she considers men being in touch with and sharing their emotions to be a sign of weakness.  It's pretty reasonable that someone like her shaped in the 1930s and 40s would have an attitude like that.  Still, after traveling with the Legends, it's a pretty shitty thing to say.  It's like she's being a version of the grandparent who sometimes says awful racist things that were normal in his or her time, but really bad by today's standards.

And I loved that.  There's a strong tendency to over-compensate with characters, especially women, of color.  To give them all positive characteristics instead of treatment as flawed people just like everyone else.  So yes, Amaya, who is brave, kind and empathetic enough to reach out to a violent creature like Grodd can also hold some pretty crappy opinions as well.  A man who cries and shares his feelings isn't a sensitive soul in Amaya's eyes.  He's a weak-ass bitch who needs to man the fuck up.  And that's awesome to me.

Amaya also went back to Africa in the 1940's for six months, so she probably lived among that type of thinking again. Didn't Nate also tell his Grandfather from the 60's that men share their feeling now to get him to open up? 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Sakura12

[tennisgurl]

7 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

I forgot to mention last night that it’s interesting they acknowledged for the first time that these anachronisms keep turning up around their own ancestors, or younger self in Ray’s case. What are the odds? Hmm...

Yeah, that is interesting, isn't it? I admit, I just thought that the writers were wrapping the characters and their families into these anachronisms because its fun or interesting, but now that they've brought up how weird it is and what a big coincidence it is that these anachronisms keep happening around them or people they're connected to, I feel like there is something more there. 

[Delphi]

I think its pretty obvious that the anachronisms are largely,  now at least,  centered around the legends.   Why else resurrect failed villains other than their connection to the team.   Distraction maybe I suppose. 

Gideon is possibly my second favourite character,  is that strange?

I no longer hate Nate.  I mean he's absolutely unneeded,  but Zano has been toning him down unless needed to be high or kidnapped,  and I'm starting to think he actually works well with the cast.  This season specifically. 

I both loved and hated the Mick thing.   I'm glad that he got a centric but it's a bit sad that he couldn't even slightly change history.   Either he winds up hating and murdering his family but ends up saving the world twice and living with that guilt upon realisation that his dad wasn't horrible and just broken and he was a fucked up kid.   Or fixes it ands lives okay but the world is doomed.  I can't say I'd be strong enough to do that. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Delphi

[Miss Dee]

I definitely think Mick chose the former. He was going to warn his father about what he would do as a kid, and then hesitated and backtracked. He might be a nihilist, but he knows he can't screw up history for his own redemption.

[Starfish35]

I'm not sure it was even that, though I guess it might have been.  I think it was just, he knew it wouldn't work.  He'd seen Snart try to change his past, and fail.  I don't think Mick's enough of an optimist to think it might actually work for him.

2 hours ago, Delphi said:

I no longer hate Nate.  I mean he's absolutely unneeded,  but Zano has been toning him down unless needed to be high or kidnapped,  and I'm starting to think he actually works well with the cast.  This season specifically. 

Yeah, I was surprised at how much I liked Nate in this episode.  I thought he handled Mick surprisingly well.   When he's not being an absolute idiot/jerk (usually something to do with Amaya), he's not too bad.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

When did Jax get home to get his mother's pie?  Or did they mean he baked a pie using his mother's recipe?

The plan to send Grodd to a time before humans could have resulted in a race of Grodds (assuming his condition is inheritable) and no people, so it's a good thing that didn't happen.

Edited November 23, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[darkestboy]

Grodd, it's been a while but I see you still want to destroy humans and so on. At least you listened to Amaya for a few seconds before trying to hijack the Waverider though.

Sara didn't much in this episode but the show didn't suffer because of it though, which really does show how we've got such an engaging cast with this series.

Nice teaming Mick and Nate and dealing with the former's father issues. I also liked the Ray/Amaya/Zari team up and Stein and Jax with the geniuses as well.

Grodd and Darkh working together should be very interesting as well, 7/10

[KirkB]

I think it would have been kind of funny if Grodd had actually made it on to the Waverider. He can't speak outloud, he's telepathic, but I'll give Gideon the benefit of the doubt since they said back in season one she could see into people's dreams. So it would basically be a silent argument.

Grodd: Grodd says go!

Gideon: I am afraid I cannot comply.

Grodd: Go! Fly through time. Now!

Gideon: No.

Grodd smashes the controls and roars a lot.

Gideon: Would you like a banana?

Grodd loses it.

[Princess Lucky]

Another very good episode. This season is shaping up to be even better than the last, and I couldn't be happier.

Mick is my unabashed favorite (though I do love every single character, which almost never happens), and I have always maintained that Dominic Purcell is a very underrated actor, so I was glad to see such an emotional (for Mick's standards) Mick-centric episode. Great casting for his dad, too. Those moments between them, they worked so well. DP was as subtle as he could be, and he even made me tear up at the end there. I loved seeing how affected he was, and how he was able to understand his father better through this experience. Dominic Purcell really is fantastic, and I'll keep saying it. I still think that the single best acting we've seen in this entire show is that Mick/Captain Cold scene in the S1 finale, after Cold has sacrificed himself and Mick sees him "one last time" and says "you're the best guy I ever knew." DP's face during that whole scene was just everything.

And I'll also join the chorus of the people who enjoyed the Mick/Nate interactions. After a rough intro, I developed a soft spot for Nate, mostly due to Nick Zano's inherent (at least to me, an erstwhile viewer of What I Like About You) charm. I agree that the writers often dumb him down (which does him no favors), and he's also frequently used as the comic relief (which is fine, because he is hilarious), but Serious Nate is definitely the best Nate. The episode with Nate watching his grandfather's death and later meeting his own (teenage, at the time) father, was so good because Zano was allowed to play it straight, which he does surprisingly well. I was glad to see the same for this week's episode. Mick needed a friend, and I liked seeing that Nate was able to be that for him, without acting like a total idiot. That handshake was earned.

Plus, switching up the character pairings is fun, and I think this season has given us quite a few winners already, in Amaya/Zari, Ray/Zari and Mick/Nate. The classics are good, of course, but it's nice to see the dynamics expand. 

That said, one small gripe I had with this episode was the fragmented storytelling. There were, like, three plotlines too many. We had Mick/Mick's Dad/Nate, Amaya/Zari/Ray/Grodd/villagers, we had Jax and LBJ, and also Stein/Geniuses. It was all fun, but maybe not in the same episode.

17 hours ago, Delphi said:

I think its pretty obvious that the anachronisms are largely,  now at least,  centered around the legends.  

I loved how they threw that out there without explaining it just yet. I guess it's because the legends broke time in the first place, but could it also be a sign that only the legends can fix it, instead of the Time Bureau?

Second funniest thing in the episode: the way Damien Darhk spoke to Grodd. Neal McDonough is a delight.

Funniest thing in the episode: Jax and Nate being equally offended when Ray dissed the pecan pie Jax's mother made. I still laugh when I think about Jax enjoying the awesome sandwiches Nate's mom made in Doomworld back in S2, so I'd like to think this display of solidarity was a callback to that moment.

[Maelstrom]

10 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

Mick is my unabashed favorite (though I do love every single character, which almost never happens), and I have always maintained that Dominic Purcell is a very underrated actor, so I was glad to see such an emotional (for Mick's standards) Mick-centric episode. Great casting for his dad, too. Those moments between them, they worked so well. DP was as subtle as he could be, and he even made me tear up at the end there. I loved seeing how affected he was, and how he was able to understand his father better through this experience. Dominic Purcell really is fantastic, and I'll keep saying it. I still think that the single best acting we've seen in this entire show is that Mick/Captain Cold scene in the S1 finale, after Cold has sacrificed himself and Mick sees him "one last time" and says "you're the best guy I ever knew." DP's face during that whole scene was just everything.

...

Plus, switching up the character pairings is fun, and I think this season has given us quite a few winners already, in Amaya/Zari, Ray/Zari and Mick/Nate. The classics are good, of course, but it's nice to see the dynamics expand. 

I'm totally with you about DP, I think he's very underrated as well. Mick isn't a character that's emotional or demonstrative by nature, so it's the little nuances that DP brings to the role that make the character work. Honestly, Mick wouldn't work in the hands of a lesser actor -  he likely would've stayed the one-note psychopath we first met on Flash. And as much as I enjoyed Snart in season one of LoT, his absence has really given Mick and DP a chance to shine, and DP hasn't let us down. I'll say it with you, he is a fantastic actor.

I've enjoyed the rotating pairings as well - it's always nice to see how different characters can bring other sides of each other. I've enjoyed very little about Nate since he came on, but his scenes with Mick did great favors to his character. I liked that he immediately wanted to help Mick when he realized how much this mission was affecting him, even though they haven't had much to with each other in the past and have even less in common. Likewise I appreciate that they've had Zari interacting with everyone on the team so far, instead of just sticking her with the same one or two teammates every week. Nicely done, writers.

[Miss Dee]

I agree with you two about Nate and Mick - but dammit, I want this experience between them to stick! I'll be so frustrated if Nate is back to jeering at Mick for his "stupidity" or crudity in a few episodes. (Teasing between comrades, sure - but it's got to be clear Nate means it in affection, and the respect and sympathy he earned for Mick in Vietnam is still there.)

Ideally, Nate and Mick would be hanging out more often and Ray would be getting totally frustrated that he's left out! ☺ Bonus points if he complains about it to a sympathetic Amaya and Zari over cocktails.

[johntfs]

30 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

Bonus points if he complains about it to a sympathetic Amaya and Zari over cocktails.

Except Zari might be sympathetic but I don't think Amaya would be.  At this point her reaction would probably be "Don't be such a fucking girl, Ray."  Though she wouldn't put it quite that way.

[UNOSEZ]

I wouldn't say zari has interacted with everyone... I don't think shes had any real words with jax or stein

[Lugal]

On 11/21/2017 at 8:02 PM, scarynikki12 said:

My favorite part is that no one stepped in to be replacement captain. They were a team while Sara was out. I should stop worrying about this show. 

Her return via fork in pie was awesome. And she hugged Jax and gave him a Big Sister kiss!! 

One thing I've learned about this show is to always watch Caity Lotz.  I guarantee she'll be doing something interesting even she isn't the focus of the scene like her "you can't fire me, I quit" moment at Sink Shower and Stuff when she knocked stuff off the shelf as she walked out.  Or in a previous episode when Stein is posing as a Nazi general and his cover is blown because said general is 6'5".  Sara, who is standing next to Stein immediately slouches to make him look taller.

[Maverick]

On 11/22/2017 at 10:00 AM, Maelstrom said:

I forgot to mention last night that it’s interesting they acknowledged for the first time that these anachronisms keep turning up around their own ancestors, or younger self in Ray’s case. What are the odds? Hmm...

That's some straight up foreshadowing there.  I think the implication is that the anachronisms are drawn to the bloodline of anyone who interacted with their prior self and thus broke time.  

If Grodd could take over Sara, why not just just over Stein, who was in control of the ship at the time.

So Amaya isn't going to find the good in Kusasa and turn her.  Yeah, we'll see how that works.  She really needs to take a trip to talk to Mari about how that worked for her.  Have they even bothered to do any research on her beyond what Ray told them based on his tangential brush with her?

[KirkB]

2 hours ago, Maverick said:

That's some straight up foreshadowing there.  I think the implication is that the anachronisms are drawn to the bloodline of anyone who interacted with their prior self and thus broke time.

It's definitely foreshadowing. Though not all of the anachronisms are tied to the Legends. Caesar and Helen, for example weren't. As for the ones that are, given that Dark knew exactly when and where Grodd was going to be, it's possible the big bad of the season is somehow arranging them to distract or otherwise affect the Legends.

2 hours ago, Maverick said:

If Grodd could take over Sara, why not just just over Stein, who was in control of the ship at the time.

Without knowing who was on the ship he may have just reached out telepathically and found the sleeping mind first. Or perhaps he sensed how badass she was and was automatically drawn to her.

[mac123x]

I watch this show following the Unsullied Rules, so I had no idea what the first act twist was going to be.  Me, shouting at the screen:  "Huh, that looks like a giant gorillholyshitthatsGRODD!"  I love that Legends isn't afraid to have continuity even with the other shows. 

 

I was really enjoying the lack of Dhamhien Dhahrhkh until that final scene.  Missed it by that much!  Oh well, at least he wasn't relevant to the plot this time.

[jhlipton]

I was 15 in 1967, so was very relevant to me...  I remembered the battle of Khe Sahn -- it was a year later.  At this point the NVA was setting up the siege and the Marines were beefing up the camp.

On 11/21/2017 at 8:23 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Jefferson saving LBJ

Kinda, sorta, if you squint hard, LBJ.  They got his colloquialisms but he was much heavier and had a much deeper voice.  Kinda of took me out of the scene how badly that was played.

On 11/21/2017 at 8:29 PM, Maelstrom said:

I liked DP when he starred on John Doe all,those years ago

I had totally forgotten that Purcell was John Doe!  That was a fun show!

On 11/22/2017 at 9:16 AM, Lugal said:

seriously Marie Curie, you eat the pie and put the empty container back in the fridge?  You monster!

Can we blame radiation poisoning?

On 11/22/2017 at 0:03 PM, Proteus said:

So was Mick abused as a child?

I thought this episode hinted (at the very least) that Mick's dad was emotionally abusive, and possibly hit Mick's mom.  He definitely came back from 'Nam damaged -- as did a lot of vets.

On 11/22/2017 at 1:41 PM, tennisgurl said:

DD really summed up Nam pretty well. "Terrible war, bitchin soundtrack."

Revisionist history (made trope by Apocalypse Now).  At the time, the "soundtrack" was tangential to the war. 

2 hours ago, KirkB said:

It's definitely foreshadowing. Though not all of the anachronisms are tied to the Legends. Caesar and Helen, for example weren't.

That we know of.  They're far enough back that they could be ancestors of any of our Legends.

Edited November 24, 2017 by jhlipton
Battle of Khe Sahn

[Jediknight]

10 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

Funniest thing in the episode: Jax and Nate being equally offended when Ray dissed the pecan pie Jax's mother made.

I don't think Ray was dissing the pie, or did they look offended.  It was more of Ray something that not in context sounds so wrong, even in context it doesn't sound right, his wording could have been better, and their reaction was more "Did you really just say that sentence".

[Miss Dee]

I found it strange that Mick stopped short of describing what would happen when his father got out of that chair. Usually if a character was beaten regularly, they'd just say so. The fact the writers didn't actually describe it suggests it was a lot darker than that. Personal head-canon: Dick Rory was sadistic and Mick knew from a very young age what it was like to have your skin burned on a regular basis. Which would make his allowing the house to burn a lot more palatable for the audience.

Also head canon: Mick loved his mother. Look at his face when he sees her picture (absolutely stellar acting from Purcell in that moment, BTW). I think his feeling justified in allowing his father to burn mixed with the guilt and shock over his mother caused him to break psychologically and the "psychopathic arsonist" was a persona he created to cope.

[Lugal]

13 hours ago, Maverick said:

If Grodd could take over Sara, why not just just over Stein, who was in control of the ship at the time.

Sara was in a coma at the time so her mind was already sort of out of commission, while Stein was focused on flying the ship which would have made his mind harder to get to.  Sara would have been an easier target.

[Maelstrom]

22 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

I agree with you two about Nate and Mick - but dammit, I want this experience between them to stick! I'll be so frustrated if Nate is back to jeering at Mick for his "stupidity" or crudity in a few episodes. (Teasing between comrades, sure - but it's got to be clear Nate means it in affection, and the respect and sympathy he earned for Mick in Vietnam is still there.)

Very good point. Last season Mick had some good bonding episodes with Ray, Amaya, and Stein, which were all forgotten or actively contradicted as the season went on. Very frustrating. Just as the writers can go overboard sometimes with other characters talking endlessly about what screw-ups the Legends are, the put-downs of Mick being stupid are often a little much as well. There can be more mutual respect between the team members without losing the snarky teasing and personality clashes that make them so fun.

 

6 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

I found it strange that Mick stopped short of describing what would happen when his father got out of that chair. Usually if a character was beaten regularly, they'd just say so. The fact the writers didn't actually describe it suggests it was a lot darker than that. Personal head-canon: Dick Rory was sadistic and Mick knew from a very young age what it was like to have your skin burned on a regular basis. Which would make his allowing the house to burn a lot more palatable for the audience.

Also head canon: Mick loved his mother. Look at his face when he sees her picture (absolutely stellar acting from Purcell in that moment, BTW). I think his feeling justified in allowing his father to burn mixed with the guilt and shock over his mother caused him to break psychologically and the "psychopathic arsonist" was a persona he created to cope.

My head canon and yours are along the same lines, Miss Dee. I think The Flash established Start Sr regularly beating young Leonard and Lisa pretty early on, so I doubt that background would be duplicated so closely with Mick. And something more like this could better explain, to some degree, Mick's lifelong obsession with fire. And as for allowing his house to burn with his parents (any siblings?) inside, I found that the way they handled the fire in 1.12 with Mick's younger self to be very smart - showing him as a scared kid rather than a psychopathic pyromaniac made the character pretty sympathetic IMO. I found the scenes of Mick confronting teen Mick over that fire were some of the character's best until this current ep.

 

On 11/23/2017 at 3:02 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

When did Jax get home to get his mother's pie?  Or did they mean he baked a pie using his mother's recipe?

I've decided that the last time Stein went back to Central City to see Lily, Jax tagged along and then ducked over to his mom's house and raided the fridge. Poor Jax, having his (clearly labelled!) pie eaten by a time-displaced scientist. He and Dan from Lucifer should start a support group for people who have their (clearly-labelled!) sweets nicked right out of the company fridge.