S02.E08: Number One

[Jillybean]

Sorry, Charlotte, no sympathy here. She's a physician who ignored the blatant signs that he was physically and emotionally unwell in order to fulfill her 20-year-old fantasy of sleeping with the quarterback.  She and Kevin used each other and they both got what they wanted.  What did she expect, that he would hang around for breakfast in the morning?  

Yes, he is acting like a jerk, because he is an addict in need of a fix.   

The crux of this episode and Kevin's arc in general is that everyone chooses to see him as the handsome quarterback or actor who couldn't possibly have any problems.  No one cares to look any deeper. No one sees him as a person with feelings.  Kate used to look after him, but she is way too wrapped up in herself now (not referring to the inevitable miscarriage). I thought this was a really gut-wrenching episode from start to finish.  Lonesome Loser may be outdated but it was the perfect song for Kevin. He is a complex and nuanced character and JH is doing a good job with the material. 

I was fully expecting Kate to lose the baby and the continued phone calls from Kate and Toby made it obvious. I told Mr Jillybean that I hope in next week's episode they delve into her background as much as they did Kevin's, because I can't take a full hour of present-day Kate being an asshole to Toby while the two of them cope with their loss. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Jillybean

[GSMHvisitor]

All in all I liked it. I'm on the fence about the scene with the lawn breakdown. That was very uncomfortable to watch. I guess that was part of the intention with that scene, I'm just not sure I found it uncomfortable for the right reasons. But other than that I think Justin absolutely delivered. What really got to me was the football field "pep talk" of self-loathing. And the moment he conjured Jack in his strung-out and drunken stupor and held on to him just a little too tightly.

I'm not sure it was an Emmy worthy performance, but considering that there are many episodes where he moved me before, I think he'd be absolutely deserving. Also because literally every other "Pearson" either got a Golden Globe or Emmy nomination or both last year and I'd be happy for Justin if he got the same kind of recognition.

I am pissed the moment where he finally was ready to open up and ask for help got taken away, because of somebody else's tragedy. It's quite ironic that even the one episode that is supposed to be solely about Kevin somebody else got the spotlight in the end. Kevin's always the least important Pearson. Idk maybe they'll do the same with Kate --> Randall, but the way they did it here pissed me off.

Given that it's now clear that Kevin did not have a previous history with addiction, the progress of his addiction definitely happened too fast. Which is another reason why I wish they'd flipped the order and ended the trilogy with Kevin. That would have given them 2 more episodes and the story wouldn't be so rushed.

Edited November 15, 2017 by GSMHvisitor

[Biggie B]

 I didn't like almost anything about this episode, and watched more out of obligation than interest. 

And now we get two more episodes dealing with more terrible stuff - Kate's miscarriage and heaven knows what with Randall. 

I think I need a break from this show. I have no issue with shows portraying the very real tragedies and horrific challenges that we all face in the course of our lives, but sometimes I feel like, why do I need to see imaginary people suffering when there is so much of it happening in real life as well? The negativity was overwhelming, almost suffocating. There isn't even a small glimmer of hope anywhere for these characters. It's not that I need or want to watch a show that's all butterflies and rainbows, but this is going overboard in the tragedy department. 

There doesn't seem to be much reason to watch next week. Miscarriage is a devastating tragedy that affects everyone in its radius. I truly wonder if there is any unique viewpoint that this show can bring to such an awful situation, but even if there is, frankly, I'm not sure I'm interested in seeing it.

Edited to add: I suppose that what will make this miscarriage unique will be how Kate's life to date frames her reaction to losing her baby. Every person who has a miscarriage has her own life and set of experiences that leads up to the event, as does her partner, all of which can and/or will influence how they handle things in the aftermath. Kate (like many people) has suffered great losses prior to this one - her brother and her father. So I suppose that could be the spin the show puts on her miscarriage - how this loss compounds her prior losses, and how she now won't have the chance to give this baby the parent/child relationship she wishes she might have had with Rebecca.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Biggie B

[Neurochick]

I finally realized something about Kevin.

I'm watching the show and thinking, "why can't they all see he's an addict?"

But that's the thing.  We, the audience see that he's an addict, but THEY, the ones on the show can't, meaning they're not seeing what we're seeing.  That's what happens with addiction.  How many people have told family and friends that they're addicts/alcoholics and the response is, "What?  I never knew!"  People see what they want to see.  People often don't see what's in front of them.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

(Seriously, what was she expecting from him other than a one night stand?)

She was expecting that they would fall in love, get married, live happily ever after.  Crazy, but probably true.  I actually think I hate her.  What Kevin did was very very very bad, but what she did was worse, IMO.

 

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Did she say "cheese and yodels"lol   Yeah, they made her a huge fan and no self esteem. He wanted the girl that looked like Sophie but that would have been gross. It's totally unrelated but I remember seeing reviews for a book by Rick Springfield where he writes extensively about his sex escapades and cheating/adultery, no conscience. A reviewer said it was very heavy handed that way and he seemed so selfish and not taking responsibility for his actions. I was shocked at the rebuttals, the fans who would have slapped those reviewers if they could for bad mouthing their guy who was so misunderstood.  The fact that behavior among famous people is glossed over if you like their persona on TV/Stage is another conversation but perfectly shown there. I had crazy crushes but nothing that made me blind.

My thing with celebrities is I feel I can only judge them on their work.  I don't know what they are like as a person.  I don't care what they are like as a person. I'm not going to worship a celebrity.  I'm not going to demonize a celebrity.  They are basically someone I don't know, much in the same way (but obviously not quite to the same extent ) that I don't know the person that designed the shirt I'm wearing.

 

50 minutes ago, screenaddict said:

I think Kevin is the most unevenly written of the Big Three.

I actually kind of like that about him.  I think Kevin doesn't know who he is.  He tries to be the confident, popular guy.  He's insecure on the inside.  He's a protective big brother to Kate. He's jealous of Randall. It all brings out different sides to his personaility.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, QQQQ said:

Agree. If Charlotte had been a male surgeon hitting on a drugged out female version of Kevin, I think viewers would a lot less concerned about the doctor's ensuing hurt/anger. Which is an interesting thing to think about, because (if my theory is correct) should gender matter in this kind of situation? 

This is what I've always thought about.  Charlotte was clearly MORE sober than Kevin at the party.  Why DON'T we think about that?  Also, was the Joey Russo look STILL a thing in '97 or so?  I didn't go to a public school, so my only eye into what's "cool" in clothes was through Seventeen, YM and 'Teen (sooooo NOT a Sassy girl). 

[abourgeois]

I started sobbing with the football field breakdown and didn't stop until well after the show ended. I found the lawn breakdown a little cringey, specifically a couple of times when he said "I'm in pain" but when he was face down on the lawn asking for someone to help him, ugh, I bawled. But there was a moment in each scene and if they were the actor's specific choice then definitely his Emmy reels....but each time he mentioned his father, his voice broke. On the football field when he said he got up just in time to "bury his father", the crack in his voice was so raw and that's when my tears started. Then he did the same crack on the doctor's lawn when he said the necklace was the only thing he had of Jack's and holy crap I was gone. 

I understand what y'all are saying about the ending taking away from a Kevin-centric episode because it was about Kate but I saw it as being something Kevin missed because of his addiction. Addicts are so wrapped up in their own shit that they tend to miss everything happening around them, good and bad. Ironically, the same applies to friends and families of addicts who don't see the addiction because they're wrapped up in their own lives. Anyway, Kate's miscarriage can be about Kate next week. This week it was about the look on Kevin's face when Randall said those words and Kevin realized that he had been ignoring Kate's and Toby's calls because he needed a fix, effectively making him miss being there for Kate when she needed him the most. It was about the guilt he will carry for that and the continuation of the seemingly unending cycle of bad choices that Kevin makes. Like he said in his speech on the football field, even when he makes a good choice (going to Randall's to tell him about the addiction), he makes a bad one (not answering or returning Kate's calls) and screws up yet again. 

[retired watcher]

I am confused. Where do Randall and Beth live? I thought it was NJ but Kevin was in Pittsburg and said he was going home for Thanksgiving anyway. 

[SunnyBeBe]

You know, it's odd when I don't really have anything to say about an episode of a favorite show. You all have covered it pretty well.  ( Well, formerly, my favorite show. ) It wasn't terrible. It's much like I would expect for a drug addiction storyline.  I mean, drug addiction is a current problem in the country right how, so, I suppose they feel it's smart to cover it.  

As far as Kate, I suppose the writers are providing Kate a legit reason to be miserable.  Of course, I knew it was coming, so, it's rather ant-climactic.

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, kittyglitter said:

Word. I am the same age as the Big 3, and while I appreciate the little touches of awesome only understood by my tiny "Xennial" generation, like the "Girl Talk" game in the cabin, I REALLY want more of our awesome music! And we had some awesome music. Some Flaming Lips, Toadies, Everclear, 311, or early Green Day, plz! 

They actually played Possum Kingdom by The Toadies on an earlier episode.  Jack was in a bar but I forget the subplot.

Anyways, I just don't like Kevin.  I think I like him even less now.  

Edited November 15, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Conotocarious]

I thought he was saying “I’m in pain” because he was in withdrawal and just wanted meds which seems like what an addict would say in the throes of a breakdown.

[Katy M]

19 minutes ago, retired watcher said:

I am confused. Where do Randall and Beth live? I thought it was NJ but Kevin was in Pittsburg and said he was going home for Thanksgiving anyway. 

Kevin was in Cali when he said he was going home for Thanksgiving anyway.  So, NJ is obviously closer to Pittsburgh.  So, since he was going home anyway, he could swing by his old high school.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

That woman was a doctor.  Kevin practically told her he was on drugs.  At the very least she knew he was drunk and depressed. And she thinks a hook up is a good idea?  Whatever.  At least Kevin showed a modicum of good sense by not going off with the high school student.

She's still a woman who had (and obviously still has) a massive crush on him. She's only seeing the Kevin she wants to see since her fantasy is coming true.

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

Age of consent is 16 in PA.  She looked to be at least that.

Age of consent or not, it wouldn't play well for a man twice the girl's age. He could have had yet another hit to his career. I was thankful they didn't go that route.

11 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Although Charlotte had a right to be pissed about how she was treated, I cannot imagine just shutting the window on a guy who lost the one thing his dad gave him before he died. What Kevin did was shitty, but let's put things in perspective here. 

Perspective comes with time and distance. Maybe not a lot of it, but certainly longer than in being in the middle of raw emotions, imo.

11 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I am not a Kevin fan, so I found this one slow-going, especially when he felt the need to recap all the shitty things that have happened to him and all the crap he's done to mess up his life. We know, Kev. We've been watching the show for over a year now. Yes, the broken knee permanently derailed his dreams of grid iron glory, I get that. But he had so many other opportunities after that, and he seriously acted sometimes like he didn't understand that not everyone gets to do what he does for a living. Number One certainly has a way of treating the people in his life like Number Two.

For me, the recap was moving because he moved on to the dreams that never were - and the biggest one (imo) was that he'd dreamed of being in the Super Bowl with Jack watching him - proud of his son and giving him the attention Kevin always craved (though to be fair, it certainly seems like Kevin got that attention from Jack when it came to football.)

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Damn, even Kevin's drug addled meltdowns get upstaged by his siblings stuff.

I know, right? That was my first thought.

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, Kevin was definitely bratty as a teen, probably due to a weird combination of cockiness and low self esteem, but I still felt for him when he broke his leg, and later when he was breaking down on the doctors lawn. He has always been stuck in a cycle of making bad choices due to his self worth issues, and now it seems like this is the culmination of a life of screw ups. He has always put so much of his self worth on his athletic ability or his looks, that he has never grown to like himself as a person. 

Yeah, I think once you're in your late teens you move on from being a brat to an asshole. At least that's the way I remember some of the big men on campus jocks from my high school days.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

So much of this episode just pissed me off.  Kevin has really been becoming one of my favorite (if not my number one favorite) character on the show because he just seems so much more complex than the others.  I felt sorry for him as a teenager.  With the college interview situation, I completely agree that he was needlessly rude.  That said, I can understand where he was coming from.  He is 16 so hormones are all over the place which often leads to attitude (I know I had a major attitude around 14 and am not looking forward to my daughter reaching that age if she is anything like me). Add on the fact that he has no interest in that school, knows exactly where he wants to go, and feels like his parents, who already rarely give him the positive attention he sees his siblings get, harping on him about how he has to do this interview and I can see why he had the attitude. Again, not saying it was okay, but I get where I was coming from.  Clearly, he had some issues with his dad being a drunk from his comment of "I know the feeling" when Jack said he was embarrassed by Kevin's behavior. I also thought that they completely overreacted to his comment about being okay with Randall missing his game because there were people cheering for him in the stands. 

The doctor scene was absolutely obnoxious.  I agree with others pointing out the hypocrisy if the genders were reversed.  If a male sees a female who is clearly drunk, hits on her but is turned down, and then that girl gets even drunker and takes him home, people would be screaming "RAPE!" from the hilltops.  But, since it was a guy who was drunk, he is suddenly an asshole for getting out of there and she is a victim because he left.  His breakdown scene in her front yard was heartbreaking.  It was the first time this season I got choked up.  I also find it inexcusable that a doctor who took an oath to help people, just left him out there when he was clearly in trouble.

When Toby called, I turned to my husband and told him that Kate lost the baby.  I think we all knew it was coming, but I thought they would drag it out some more.  I am really hoping that it is Miguel who sees Kevin is in trouble and gets him help.  That can create some more drama with Kevin being resentful that a man he doesn't care for is butting his nose in where (Kevin thinks) it doesn't belong and then it can be a nice heartwarming moment where Miguel ends up accepted because of the love he clearly has for the family.

[ChromaKelly]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

She noticed even before she slept with him. She saw how much he was drinking at the high school. That's why she asked if he wanted to go for a walk. She was trying to get him away from the nonstop plastic cups of wine.

OK, a nitpick, but on most public school grounds, alcohol cannot be served.
I thought for sure the doctor was going to recognize the signs of addiction and tell him he needs help. 
This addiction plot is doing nothing for me. It's too out of the blue. He's been an addict for what? A whole month? Kate's ten weeks, found out at six, he hurt his knee around that same time. If they had shown he had a previous addiction from the first injury, it would make more sense. Also, fentanyl? Really? IDK if he was just trying for that, or if that's what the doctor initially gave him. All I got was ten percosets for my knee surgery.
I think I'm dead inside because I was eye-rolling at a lot of this ep. The football field speech was just so whatever. Sick of Saint Jack of the greasy hair. The folk music. Stop trying so hard, show.

[PRgal]

1 minute ago, ChromaKelly said:

OK, a nitpick, but on most public school grounds, alcohol cannot be served.
I thought for sure the doctor was going to recognize the signs of addiction and tell him he needs help. 
This addiction plot is doing nothing for me. It's too out of the blue. He's been an addict for what? A whole month? Kate's ten weeks, found out at six, he hurt his knee around that same time. If they had shown he had a previous addiction from the first injury, it would make more sense. Also, fentanyl? Really? IDK if he was just trying for that, or if that's what the doctor initially gave him. All I got was ten percosets for my knee surgery.
I think I'm dead inside because I was eye-rolling at a lot of this ep. The football field speech was just so whatever. Sick of Saint Jack of the greasy hair. The folk music. Stop trying so hard, show.

The booze would have been snuck out and any alcohol served inside the school itself would have required some sort of special events licence which would only be valid for a set period of time.  At least that's how it works here.

[luvbadtv]

11 hours ago, Amethyst said:

That "These Days" cover was terrible, imo.  Should have just used Nico's version.

Or the original by Jackson Browne, it's amazing.

[mishap]

Dr. Charlotte was a bigger ass in her and Kevin's situation.    I could not believe she was hitting on him, after the speeches.  I cannot believe no one -- no teachers, or anyone, seemed to notice the shape he was in.     I really thought, when Dr. Charlotte asked Kevin if he wanted to take a walk, she was going to try and help him, not get in his pants.     So that whole thing was unbelievable to me.  A person who is a Dr. like Charlotte would have recognized the signs of addiction, that Kevin really wasn't even trying to hide.  And also, because she is also seemingly a giving person, who wants to help people, I would have thought her instinct to help would have kicked in. 

But i know ---- she was just as blinded by the star he was in high school and the celebrity he was as well.  I just thought his being in a school with teachers and coaches etc, and also a charitable Dr., whose professions all require them to notice and care about a person's well being, that someone would have reached out, or confronted him.  OR at least thrown him out of a high school event where he was clearly drunk.  And if that speech was not a cry for help, I don't know what is. 

Anyway, I was just disappointed in that aspect of the show.  I hope that was unrealistic, because it's really sad to me, that someone behaving as Kevin did, would be ignored in that situation. 

[Katy M]

And his coach.  He was holding on to him for dear life giving him that hug. And, this is presumably someone who knew him fairly well, albeit a long time ago.  He obviously thought well of him to come back to the school to introduce him.  I think they said he was retired so it's not like he was already there that day. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

The doctor scene was absolutely obnoxious.  I agree with others pointing out the hypocrisy if the genders were reversed.  If a male sees a female who is clearly drunk, hits on her but is turned down, and then that girl gets even drunker and takes him home, people would be screaming "RAPE!" from the hilltops.  But, since it was a guy who was drunk, he is suddenly an asshole for getting out of there and she is a victim because he left.  His breakdown scene in her front yard was heartbreaking.  It was the first time this season I got choked up.  I also find it inexcusable that a doctor who took an oath to help people, just left him out there when he was clearly in trouble.

You know, I never thought about it this way. To everyone who brought it up, it did give me a lot of perspective on the situation. I feel for Charlotte to a certain extent, but it does end short. She did take advantage of him because he didn't look well. She either saw this and took him outside for air, or she saw an opportunity and took him outside to make a move. I truly believe it was the latter now because they brought out more alcohol and she let him drink it, and then drank some of her own. Then, she made some moves, which he was oblivious to. Then, when he came back into the party to go have sex with her, she knew he was drunk, she was probably less so, and she took him home. She seemed to want to go over to his hotel, judging by her talking about it to him after sex, and seemed to be disappointed in not living out her fantasy. He was clearly not interested, was distracted, and I can't believe she was simply stupid. She was oblivious herself because of her fantasy, but she definitely took part in what happened.

Now, she didn't invite him over so that he could steal her prescription pad. In that sense, she is a victim. I wish she had been mad at him because she realized he took her pad instead of being mad he left after sex all because he didn't fulfill her fantasy.

1 hour ago, ChromaKelly said:

This addiction plot is doing nothing for me. It's too out of the blue. He's been an addict for what? A whole month? Kate's ten weeks, found out at six, he hurt his knee around that same time. If they had shown he had a previous addiction from the first injury, it would make more sense. Also, fentanyl? Really? IDK if he was just trying for that, or if that's what the doctor initially gave him. All I got was ten percosets for my knee surgery.
I think I'm dead inside because I was eye-rolling at a lot of this ep. The football field speech was just so whatever. Sick of Saint Jack of the greasy hair. The folk music. Stop trying so hard, show.

Well, we don't know exactly how long it's been since the last episode. Kevin mentioned thinking that the reunion was two weeks away, which means he's probably been in a drug/alcohol stupor for two weeks. So Kate's probably more like 12/13 weeks. We know Kevin started his addiction in the third episode (he at least took his first pill then), and Kate would have been less than six weeks at that point (I think she was about four weeks). Kate kept the pregnancy hidden from Toby for a few weeks. So it's been two months. We also know it's November 20th at this point (close to Thanksgiving, he said). I guess I assume that he had a pill addiction before, but it's odd since nobody around him is noticing. Wouldn't they if he had gone through this before? Some signs seem to point to a previous addiction (Kate's comment at the end of episode 3; Kevin's reluctance to not take the pills, which seems to imply he doesn't want to be addicted), but other signs like nobody noticing either seem to be contradicting this or implying that his family is in denial that he's going through this again. 

[Jillybean]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

It's totally unrelated but I remember seeing reviews for a book by Rick Springfield where he writes extensively about his sex escapades and cheating/adultery, no conscience. A reviewer said it was very heavy handed that way and he seemed so selfish and not taking responsibility for his actions. I was shocked at the rebuttals, the fans who would have slapped those reviewers if they could for bad mouthing their guy who was so misunderstood.  The fact that behavior among famous people is glossed over if you like their persona on TV/Stage is another conversation but perfectly shown there. I had crazy crushes but nothing that made me blind.

If this is in reference to his autobiography "Late Late at Night," I read it when it came out and I don't agree with those reviewers' characterizations at all. He wrote extensively about his lifelong battle with depression and some of his irresponsible behavior that went along with it. I would not say he lacked remorse at all.  I am not a big fangirl of his, though his was my first concert back in 1986 (Corey Hart opened). 

Anyway, I don't know if Kevin's "public" (as it were) were glossing over his behavior or truly unwilling to recognize it because it compromised his school hero status, etc.  It's tragic, actually.

[echo.Echo.ECHO]

I predict that Charlotte is going to find Kevin's necklace, either right in the same drawer with her prescription pad or beneath the desk. This will lead to her figuring out that he took some blank prescriptions, and that is what will finally move Kevin's plot forward.

[notcreative enough]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

Surely you don't blame Kate for losing the baby or calling her brother with the news?

Of course I don't blame Kate for losing the baby. It's just that Kevin will either let the guilt of this will cause him to spiral even more. Or secretary get help. Either way he hides from his family which isn't good. But with Kevin being Kevin it's only going to want to get worse. Maybe his mom will notice something because no one else sees a problem.

[greekmom]

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

Sorry, Charlotte, no sympathy here. She's a physician who ignored the blatant signs that he was physically and emotionally unwell in order to fulfill her 20-year-old fantasy of sleeping with the quarterback.  She and Kevin used each other and they both got what they wanted.  What did she expect, that he would hang around for breakfast in the morning?  

Word. She's a freaking doctor. Meanwhile the housekeeper and the driver both figured it out even before Kevin opened his mouth about having the driver score him some drugs.

Crush or no crush - she's the worst doctor in the world for letting her freaking fantasy of her nerdy self sleeping with the popular quaterback.   

Out of the big 3 I feel most for Kevin. He is constantly ignored by his family and he is the most need of assistance. 

Also, I wonder when the house that was previously Casa Pearson was rebuilt and sold. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, ChromaKelly said:

OK, a nitpick, but on most public school grounds, alcohol cannot be served.
I thought for sure the doctor was going to recognize the signs of addiction and tell him he needs help. 
This addiction plot is doing nothing for me. It's too out of the blue. He's been an addict for what? A whole month? Kate's ten weeks, found out at six, he hurt his knee around that same time. If they had shown he had a previous addiction from the first injury, it would make more sense. Also, fentanyl? Really? IDK if he was just trying for that, or if that's what the doctor initially gave him. All I got was ten percosets for my knee surgery.
I think I'm dead inside because I was eye-rolling at a lot of this ep. The football field speech was just so whatever. Sick of Saint Jack of the greasy hair. The folk music. Stop trying so hard, show.

It seems like a fast tracked addiction to us viewers because it's only been over the course of a few episodes, but in show time it's been some weeks.  He mentioned Vicodin, which can have a person dependent in a few weeks when they take it as prescribed.  Only a small amount is prescribed these days because the problems are well publicized.  He's not taking it as prescribed anymore, he's dumping it in his mouth like candy.  Mixed with alcohol the way they've been showing, I'll be surprised if he does not OD. 

I agree that alcohol would not be served at a school function where students were present.  Just not a good practice.  Having a teen pretty much in charge of connecting with the well-known honored alum was a bit odd.  I can see trying to instill organizational skills and leadership, etc., but would still expect the principal or some adult more visibly supervising.  Maybe that was in offscreensville and we were supposed to be focused on Kelly and what looked like impending inappropriate conduct. 

[J0nas3]

I thought the scene on the football field was good, but the whole time I was distracted because why were the lights on at an empty football field?!?

[Blakeston]

5 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Having a teen pretty much in charge of connecting with the well-known honored alum was a bit odd. 

It didn't occur to me when I was watching the episode that Kelly was supposed to be a current student. It wasn't until I came here that I realized it. That actress didn't look at all like a teenager, and it made so little sense for a high school student to be his contact person.

As for Kevin's speech - look, I get the point the writers were making about celebrity worship, and how Kevin feels like people only see him as a hero instead of seeing the real him.

But realistically, if a big celebrity gave a speech like that at a high school, I don't think it would be long before TMZ had a headline that said, "Major Star BREAKS DOWN In Front of Schoolchildren!" Complete with a cell phone recording, taken by someone in the audience.

People love celebrities, but they also love bringing them down.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I think Charlotte basically regressed to her high school self when she saw Kevin. She wanted to act out her high school fantasy with her high school crush. She probably also liked the fact that he was a celebrity. I think both Charlotte and Kevin were using the other, Charlotte to play out a different ending from her nerdy high school days and Kevin to look for drugs. I am incredibly relieved that even though he is an addict, he did have a line he wouldn't cross with the actual high school girl. It's at least a step up to steal drugs from a grown woman than to hang out with high-schoolers and get drugs from them, although of course still wrong. Charlotte was very immature about the necklace. I'm sure it stung that Kevin walked out without saying good-bye and it was very rude. Still, just give him his stuff back especially since it means something to him. Hopefully Charlotte is not that immature all the time but rather just because of the weird situation she was in. Still, I kind of hate her because she seems very shallow. Like others have been saying, what if there was a gender reversal? How much sympathy would we have for a male nerd who went for a one-night stand with a now famous-then popular high school girl, plied her with drinks, got angry at her for walking out and then refused to give her her stuff back? Of course Kevin stole her prescription so he was way in the wrong to use her for that but she didn't know that part of it.

When Kevin was on the football field, I snarkily thought that it was nice of them to turn on the lights just for him. But then I thought the way they were treating him they probably would turn on the lights if he asked.

Oh boy is Kevin going to feel guilty for ignoring Toby's calls. He must have known on some level that Toby rather than Kate was calling him for a reason but ignored it in order to feed his addiction.

[Lithogirl]

37 minutes ago, notcreative enough said:

Of course I don't blame Kate for losing the baby. It's just that Kevin will either let the guilt of this will cause him to spiral even more. Or secretary get help. Either way he hides from his family which isn't good. But with Kevin being Kevin it's only going to want to get worse. Maybe his mom will notice something because no one else sees a problem.

 

I doubt his mom will notice. Now if it were Randall, she’d be all over it. 

[Conotocarious]

One thing I noticed about the show and maybe it’s because I watch the NFL and have seen many horrific injuries but there’s no way that the hit Kevin took would have resulted in a shattered knee. It looked more like a concussion. His knee wasn’t even touched nor was it at an awkward angle. I realize it would be too hard to film what something like that would really look like but it sure wouldn’t look like that. 

[wonderwoman]

3 hours ago, QQQQ said:

Quote

I don’t feel sorry for Charlotte. She noticed he was drunk and took advantage of it to sleep with her fantasy crush. She took him outside with a bottle of wine and tried to make a move on him. As a doctor, she could tell he was drunk and spiraling. She didn’t care though, she might get the opportunity to sleep with Kevin Pearson.

Agree. If Charlotte had been a male surgeon hitting on a drugged out female version of Kevin, I think viewers would a lot less concerned about the doctor's ensuing hurt/anger. Which is an interesting thing to think about, because (if my theory is correct) should gender matter in this kind of situation

Exactly. This situation reminded me of a scene from one of my favorite movies, The Way We Were. Barbra Steisand (ugly duckling, Katie) runs into her college crush Robert Redford (golden boy, Hubbell), blind drunk in a nightclub.  She brings him home and while she's making coffee, he falls asleep in her bed. She undresses and climbs into bed with him.  

At the time (1973) a lot of people described the scene as romantic. But how romantic could it be when the guy's has been puking his brains out, hasn't brushed his teeth and is so drunk he could have been fucking a goat.  But I found most disturbing is that had the genders been reversed, it would have been rightly considered rape. And I always thought this incident, though never mentioned again, contributed to the failure of Katie and Hubbell's marriage, but I digress.  

I'm just glad thie issue was raised, particularly in light recent events. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by wonderwoman

[Biggie B]

Quote

I thought the scene on the football field was good, but the whole time I was distracted because why were the lights on at an empty football field?!?

We live down the road from our town's high school and it has a fairly big and sophisticated sports complex, including a state of the art football field. Many times, the lights are on when the school is closed and there's seemingly no activity. No idea why...could be a security measure. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Biggie B

[ShadowFacts]

Another oddity in the episode is that Al Michaels is saying welcome to Sunday night football on the TV in Kevin's hotel room, when he takes the call from Kelly at McKinley High.  They show her on the phone with a couple people around, one of them stuffing things into cubby mailboxes, looking like it's a school day.  On Sunday night.  Also, once again they show lots of Pennsylvania trees with lots of green leaves in November.  This stuff always distracts me. 

[Lady Iris]

Wow, what a cringe-fest last night. Kevin is a complete and utter wreck. Funny how the maid picked up on that but nobody else did. Shame on Charlotte, all she could say about Kevin was that his sweat glands were rampaging? He looked like hell. I don't care if she's just a plastic surgeon. How can she, as a person or trained medical professional, not pick up that he's so unwell? I suppose the same has been said for Sophie too.

Why does this show go for the gut punch in the last moments? It's turning into an exercise in torture most eps because something bad or heavily profound occurs in the last moments.

I need Kevin to get well. This drug addiction storyline is so timely and relevant it pains me. Thank God he changed his mind. Fentanyl??? My God. That's a huge jump from vicodin. He never would've gotten away with a handwritten narcotic prescription these days. Jack to the rescue from beyond the grave.

[Ms Blue Jay]

50 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

People love celebrities, but they also love bringing them down.

I think it's the media more than the fans.  I don't think fans are obsessed with wanting the celebrities they love to come down.  I certainly don't feel that way whatsoever.  I have no stake in people I don't know failing unless they're someone I hate like political figures I'm not allowed to mention here.  The media can make money off of families breaking up which is why they love it, but I have a possibly naive hope that many people are disgusted and uninterested with those headlines.

If Kevin is 37 or 38 I think it's really strange and weird that people from his high school still want to sleep with him.  LOL.  That's 20 years ago.  But then I forgot all those movies about 20 year high school reunions where this stuff always seems to happen in pop culture.  (And then you add in the celebrity aspect, and like... ugh.)

Edited November 15, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[anniebird]

Charlotte was living out a high school fantasy when Kevin, who was not only the big football star in high school but then went on to be a big TV and movie star, ended up in her bed. If he had just made some feeble excuse to leave in the morning, that would have been one thing, but he sent her off to get him food so he could sneak out. So she's not just insulted and humiliated, she's furious. And she's not going to be any happier when she finds out he stole from her prescription pad. 

[Katy M]

24 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Another oddity in the episode is that Al Michaels is saying welcome to Sunday night football on the TV in Kevin's hotel room, when he takes the call from Kelly at McKinley High.  They show her on the phone with a couple people around, one of them stuffing things into cubby mailboxes, looking like it's a school day.  On Sunday night.  Also, once again they show lots of Pennsylvania trees with lots of green leaves in November.  This stuff always distracts me. 

Maybe he Tivo or DVR'd is.

[kilda]

33 minutes ago, wonderwoman said:

At the time (1973) a lot of people described the scene as romantic. But how romantic could it be when the guy's has been puking his brains out, hasn't brushed his teeth and is so drunk he could have been fucking a goat.  But I found most disturbing is that had the genders been reversed, it would have been rightly considered rape.

Well, now it would, but I suspect in 1973 it would still would have been considered romantic even if the genders were reversed.

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, Katy M said:

Maybe he Tivo or DVR'd is.

The only thing about this is that when Kelly calls Kevin to confirm for tomorrow, the 20th, it would be Sunday when she calls him. So, I might be able to buy that some staff went in to school on the Sunday to prep for the award ceremony the next day, but they also could have done it on the Friday.

[Katy M]

Just now, Lady Calypso said:

The only thing about this is that when Kelly calls Kevin to confirm for tomorrow, the 20th, it would be Sunday when she calls him. So, I might be able to buy that some staff went in to school on the Sunday to prep for the award ceremony the next day, but they also could have done it on the Friday.

OK, I admit it. I didn't know what day the 20th was.  Does Sunday night football start at the same time on the West Coast as the East Coast?  It can't right.  So, it was 5 or so?  Either way I would think Kevin must have waited until morning to fly cross country and still arrives at the school a couple of hours before the ceremony.  What time was this ceremony?  There were more kids there than I would think would show up for an alumni award giving ceremony if it wasn't during school, or at least right after.  

[doodlebug]

44 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

We live down the road from our town's high school and it has a fairly big and sophisticated sports complex, including a state of the art football field. Many times, the lights are on when the school is closed and there's seemingly no activity. No idea why...could be a security measure. 

The high school near me keeps the field at least partially lit at night because, when it was dark, too many students engaged in 'extracurricular' activities on it.  Kids were sneaking in and drinking, having sex and such.  Lighting it up stopped it from happening.

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

OK, I admit it. I didn't know what day the 20th was.  Does Sunday night football start at the same time on the West Coast as the East Coast?  It can't right.  So, it was 5 or so?  Either way I would think Kevin must have waited until morning to fly cross country and still arrives at the school a couple of hours before the ceremony.  What time was this ceremony?  There were more kids there than I would think would show up for an alumni award giving ceremony if it wasn't during school, or at least right after.  

Not sure what time Sunday night football starts. Honestly, it looked like it was the middle of the day for Kevin in California. The ceremony was most likely right after the school day, so probably around 4 or 5pm. It was still relatively light outside at the beginning but dark once the ceremony ended, and most of the kids looked to be on the sports team, so all the football players were probably obligated to go, possibly other players too, and then kids who were interested in Kevin or who were bored/stuck there after school. 

It is a shame that Kevin's family didn't come too. If this was Randall getting some award, they all would have dropped what they were doing to attend. However, I totally get the reason for them not being there. 

[ShadowFacts]

7 minutes ago, Katy M said:

OK, I admit it. I didn't know what day the 20th was.  Does Sunday night football start at the same time on the West Coast as the East Coast?  It can't right.  So, it was 5 or so?  Either way I would think Kevin must have waited until morning to fly cross country and still arrives at the school a couple of hours before the ceremony.  What time was this ceremony?  There were more kids there than I would think would show up for an alumni award giving ceremony if it wasn't during school, or at least right after.  

It's bizarre, I do not usually notice such details at all, but there was a big clock on the wall when Kelly was talking and it was around 8:30 (I think).  The NFL Sunday night Nov. 19th game is scheduled for 8:30 Eastern.  So I guess I'll buy that people were around prepping for the next day. 

The ceremony the next day was part of Homecoming week so there would be any number of kids and adults around, at least that's how it is in my town. 

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It is a shame that Kevin's family didn't come too. If this was Randall getting some award, they all would have dropped what they were doing to attend. However, I totally get the reason for them not being there. 

Considering the fact that Kevin didn't realize it was coming up so soon, I think it's likely he didn't even tell his family about it.

[Biggie B]

Quote

It is a shame that Kevin's family didn't come too. If this was Randall getting some award, they all would have dropped what they were doing to attend. However, I totally get the reason for them not being there. 

I wonder if Kevin's family even knew he was being honored by the school. The student liaison Kelly hadn't talked to Kevin in a month, and perhaps that was the first time he'd even been contacted about the event. Seeing as he's been a mess for several weeks or more, Kevin might've not even mentioned it to anyone.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Biggie B

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Considering the fact that Kevin didn't realize it was coming up so soon, I think it's likely he didn't even tell his family about it.

 

1 minute ago, Biggie B said:

I wonder if Kevin's family even knew he was being honored by the school. The student liaison Kelly hadn't talked to Kevin in a month, and perhaps that was the first time he'd even been contacted about the event. Seeing as he's been a mess for several weeks or more, Kevin might've not even mentioned it to anyone.

Yeah, this is kind of what I figured, but it's still sad that Kevin didn't tell his family. In my mind, I imagine he did this on purpose to further punish himself. Since he feels like he doesn't deserve the award, he doesn't feel like his family should be burdened with travelling to Pittsburgh to attend the ceremony. 

[survivinmt]

My DVR always cuts off the last minute of this show. I have to fix that. On most shows it isn't such a big deal but I really am missing out on this show.

Middle daughter of 5 girls in my family here and its a thing. Even though my parents were loving and always there for me - it was always (and still pretty much is) assumed that I am fine and don't need anything. I usually think that generalizations like that are hooey - but this one is real.

I thought JH did a great job here. I was impressed that Kevin only took 1 prescription sheet from the pad - thought he would've taken half of it at least. Do Dr's somehow know how many scripts are on a pad and keep track. I don't have much experience with that.

[wonderwoman]

27 minutes ago, kilda said:

 

1 hour ago, wonderwoman said:

At the time (1973) a lot of people described the scene as romantic. But how romantic could it be when the guy's has been puking his brains out, hasn't brushed his teeth and is so drunk he could have been fucking a goat.  But I found most disturbing is that had the genders been reversed, it would have been rightly considered rape.

Well, now it would, but I suspect in 1973 it would still would have been considered romantic even if the genders were reversed.

 

I actually saw The Way We Were when it came out (yes, I'm that old:). And yes, initially, I thought it was sort of romantic -- the ugly duckling gets the golden boy. But, even then, there was something about that scene that bothered me. And long before -- decades before -- the Weinstein, et al revelations, I was aware while Katie may have though she was seducing Hubbell, she was, in fact, violating him, and that had the genders been reversed, it would have been considered rape.

[doodlebug]

2 minutes ago, survivinmt said:

My DVR always cuts off the last minute of this show. I have to fix that. On most shows it isn't such a big deal but I really am missing out on this show.

Middle daughter of 5 girls in my family here and its a thing. Even though my parents were loving and always there for me - it was always (and still pretty much is) assumed that I am fine and don't need anything. I usually think that generalizations like that are hooey - but this one is real.

I thought JH did a great job here. I was impressed that Kevin only took 1 prescription sheet from the pad - thought he would've taken half of it at least. Do Dr's somehow know how many scripts are on a pad and keep track. I don't have much experience with that.

Nowadays, most doctors don't even HAVE prescription pads, I certainly don't have any in my home.  At my office and the hospital, non-narcotic prescriptions are e-scripted to the pharmacy with no paper whatsoever.  Any narcotic prescription prints out on special paper and must be hand signed and the patient must bring it to the pharmacy in person.  Also, any narcotic prescription must have the doctor's DEA number on it.  It used to be illegal to have prescription pads with the DEA printed on it, it had to be hand printed along with the signature.  So, even if the doctor had a prescription pad in her home (why?), Kevin wouldn't be able to write a prescription in her name without her unique DEA number which the pharmacist would verify before filling it.

Just looked in my desk at work: I've got 3 old prescription pads in the back of a drawer; haven't used any of them in at least 6 years, probably more.  Years ago, someone had a prescription pad printed up with my name on it and tried to pass some prescriptions at local pharmacies.  The pharmacist reported it (because he knew my prescribing practices and that I didn't routinely give prescriptions for large amounts of narcotics) and the cops picked the guy up when he came back to get the meds.  Nowadays, we're not supposed to give anyone a prescription for more than a week's worth of narcotics.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

You know, I never thought about it this way. To everyone who brought it up, it did give me a lot of perspective on the situation. I feel for Charlotte to a certain extent, but it does end short. She did take advantage of him because he didn't look well. She either saw this and took him outside for air, or she saw an opportunity and took him outside to make a move. I truly believe it was the latter now because they brought out more alcohol and she let him drink it, and then drank some of her own. Then, she made some moves, which he was oblivious to. Then, when he came back into the party to go have sex with her, she knew he was drunk, she was probably less so, and she took him home. She seemed to want to go over to his hotel, judging by her talking about it to him after sex, and seemed to be disappointed in not living out her fantasy. He was clearly not interested, was distracted, and I can't believe she was simply stupid. She was oblivious herself because of her fantasy, but she definitely took part in what happened.

Now, she didn't invite him over so that he could steal her prescription pad. In that sense, she is a victim. I wish she had been mad at him because she realized he took her pad instead of being mad he left after sex all because he didn't fulfill her fantasy.

Well, we don't know exactly how long it's been since the last episode. Kevin mentioned thinking that the reunion was two weeks away, which means he's probably been in a drug/alcohol stupor for two weeks. So Kate's probably more like 12/13 weeks. We know Kevin started his addiction in the third episode (he at least took his first pill then), and Kate would have been less than six weeks at that point (I think she was about four weeks). Kate kept the pregnancy hidden from Toby for a few weeks. So it's been two months. We also know it's November 20th at this point (close to Thanksgiving, he said). I guess I assume that he had a pill addiction before, but it's odd since nobody around him is noticing. Wouldn't they if he had gone through this before? Some signs seem to point to a previous addiction (Kate's comment at the end of episode 3; Kevin's reluctance to not take the pills, which seems to imply he doesn't want to be addicted), but other signs like nobody noticing either seem to be contradicting this or implying that his family is in denial that he's going through this again. 

I don't think many people on this board are surprised that you didn't see it - many people don't (due to power structures between men and women), and I think that's disappointing.  As for Kate, I suppose we will find out next week exactly how far along she was.  She may be 12/13 calendar weeks - i.e. starting her second trimester - but the baby could have stopped developing at 10-11 weeks (I've been learning A LOT through IVF message boards lately).  Because Kate is high risk due to age and size, she will be getting ultrasounds and checkups much more frequently than a non-overweight woman who is, say, 30 years old.