S02.E05: Chapter Eighteen: When A Stranger Calls

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Alice publishes a fiery piece blasting the Southside; Jughead takes matters into his own hands to keep the peace; Betty receives an ultimatum that could destroy her relationships; Veronica's old friend visits for a wild night with the gang.

[WhosThatGirl]

Once again I have to say I start each episode with an amount of excitement and nervous energy of this show. I’m always on edge for what’s going to happen. 

 

The phone call.. first of all in real life does anyone pick up unknown phone calls anymore? I never do. If it is unknown and someone actually trying to reach me, I wait while they leave a voicemail. Otherwise yeah. Also yeah of course the “she” in the previews was about Polly. The fact that Betty just let her taxi out of Riverdale to a farm by herself was stupid. But Betty hasn’t been acting like Betty Cooper of season 1 in her Nancy Drew way this season, it’s like the writers are writing her less smart this season. I don’t get it. Also where in Betty’s speech did she talk about making Riverdale pure? I don’t remember her speech word for word but nothing was about making Riverdale pure.

 

 

I get why Betty felt the need to tell Archie about the phone call, it does look less than suspicious if they’re walking to school together and all that but that scene did not fit well with my Bughead heart, for a lot of reasons. Also I still think Archie is terrible at anything like this. So he doesn’t seem helpful in these situations. 

 

More scenes with The Lodges. I don’t care? Also.. whatever their plan is has something to do with buildings and landscape.. yay. Not really.

 

Oh look Nick St Clair.. another new character? We really didn’t need any more. We don’t. I hope he isn’t recurring. 

 

Seriously what is Toni’s problem? She’s always angry or speaking in an angry tonE.

 

I don’t get what Jugheads endgame is here. 

 

What is with Betty’s ringtone. 

 

The Snake Masks on the serpents.. I’m sorry I laughed. This show and their choices of masks and wigs is hilarious. I know it was supposed all scary and dark but i was laughing. Also initiation is taking care of a dog.  

 

So Veronica’s job in her dads company is hostessing? Okay.

 

Also Jughead has to study laws to be in a gang and shout it in a bar? And put his hand in a snake pit to get a knife.  Ugh at Toni calling Jughead Juggie. Seriously writers you’re making this so

Cliche.

 

Love Betty posting that article and calling out Alice.

 

So Veronica really used to party, so I guess this is something that can possibly come up later in this episode or the season.

 

So Betty would recognize the face under the Black Hood. That cuts out one of my theories. It also really keeps me pointing me towards the fact that it’s a Northside, which I’ve been thinking since last week when he talked about Betty’s speech. I said it last episode topic that I doubt Southsiders would attend The Julibee. I’m sorry but really. 

 

Aw The Bughead scene in the diner.  I hate that they can’t be honest with each other. It’s breaking my heart. 

 

Hey Cheryl gets to talk this week! 

 

Not surprised that Veronica decided to pertake in Jingle Jangle As did Archie. 

 

Betty unleashing actual feelings in her Faux fight with Veronica? Possibly. 

 

The more Toni is on screen, the more I dislike her and I hate that because I really don’t want to dislike her but I don’t know.

 

I’m glad Veronica slapped Nick and walked away. 

 

And.. great. The next person Betty has to cut out of her life is Jughead.  I can’t say I’m surprised, but also yeah.. a little, no wait, a lot broken hearted by this. I knew there was a countdown clock for this relationship, but I thought we would have a little more time. It also feels like this pairing got no time on screen together this season so far and yes it’s only episode 5 but Archie and Veronica have gotten so much hooking up time, it’s ridiculous. 

 

Archie being a voice of reason to Betty .. but no.. no no no he can’t be the one to talk to Jughead. I really hate this storyline. I really do. So now Jughead gets to lose his two people in his life. That’s great. 

 

I could care less about The Lodges and The St. Clair’s. It’s like Veronica now has the Archie syndrome where her stories do not fit in with this show.

 

Love Alice walking into the banquet in a silt red fiery dress.

 

Also I hate this scene in which Archie gets to hurt Jughead for real because he finds out he joined the serpents. I hate this. This was so painful. I really can’t believe they actually did this this way. I’m really sad. That really sucked. It was awful. Good luck walking that whole thing back, Betty. I’m guessing they won’t. I really don’t know. I never expected it to happen in episode 5, I’m also really upset their breakup wasn’t even bettween them as it was Archie saying Betty wants to break up with him. That’s annoying to me. 

 

When nick gave Cheryl a drink, I totally figured he put drugs in them or something. And I was right. 

 

Josie and the Pussycats singing a song from rent while Jughead goes into The Gauntlet aka getting bear down and Cheryl almost getting attired and the cats attacking -excellent editing again show. 

So the black hoodie and Betty are the same? Okay.. Adding that to my theories list. 

I really don’t know. I’m really shattered over Bughead. That broke me. And now nothing at all times Jughead to the Northside so he’s all by himself.  With Toni. I can’t believe they did that already either. Seriously this all so fast. My heart is broken.

Poor Cheryl. She’s had a rough year. But also eh.. I don’t care about Nick. 

This episode broke my heart.

[opus]

I always hated that Lollipop song....

[Last Time Lord]

O_O

Holy shit, that ending!

Also, best use of Out Tonight from Rent ever! The way it seemed to match up with all the action was masterful

[Advance35]

Meh, Betty's situation kind of puts a downer on the Black Hood Menace.  It's just very Scream: The Series for my taste.  The only aspect of Betty that interest me id her mother, ALTHOUGH, that dress Alice?  Just no.  Dear god no.

What I did like was The Lodges working as a unit.  I've enjoyed Veronica's friendships with Archie and Kevin but sometimes I wonder if they should vere her towards even more grey.  Not a complete antagonist figure like Cheryl, but less trying to earn a Hallow.  Her working on behalf of her Parents to Woo the St. Claire Scion was very entertaining for me.  As a trio the Lodges  are sly, subtle and they ooze self-interest.

And Veronica use to party with coke?!?!?!  That was a surprise.  Her turning it down seemed to be quite a surprise to Nick St. Claire, so I assume that Veronica's recreation was a pretty routine. And his finding her pussycat ears and inquiring about what kind of "kink" she is into now made me LMAO.  He gave Archie all the regard of a doorstop.    Veronica's giggling at Nick's derision towards Riverdale was also very telling.  She's not as over-the-top as Cheryl but Veronica does have a bit of Kathryn Merteuil in her, we just need to find her Sebastian.

I like Veronica and Archie well enough but when Veronica realizes she takes 2nd place to Betty, I hope she lets her edge resurface and starts to spend more time with some of the more morally fluid characters.  

The Pussycats and Veronica gave Nick quite the beating.  I'd like a friendship between Veronica and Josie but I question how well that would go because they may be TOO much alike.  Both need to be the center of attention, each thinks she's the solitary A-List amongst Be-Listers.  But then again Veronica has had a cordial/friendly rapport with Cheryl and Josie and Cheryl appear to be GENUINE friends so.........

[tennisgurl]

I know that Betty was feeling conflicted and all, but I admit I laughed at Betty sitting there awkwardly while the whole rest of the cast was dancing around on a coke high. It perfectly nailed the awkward misery of being the one sober person at the party. I really dislike the plots where a character has to trash all their relationships because of some evil force for their own protection, but this one seems to be alright. I actually wonder if Black Hood knows about that time Betty almost deep fried a guy in a hot tub for slut shaming her sister. 

I enjoyed the Lodges working together, as devious as they are. However, I knew instantly that this Nick guy would be bad news. He practically screams "bad guy from an episode of Law and Order SVU"  the second you see him. I thought the whole Out Tonight sequence was awesome, the editing was just perfect. And the Pussycats gave Nick one hell of a beating! It was also nice to see a bit more of Josie and Cheryl's friendship, even if it was just in the background. You know, Nick might be lucky if Black Hood finds him. BH will just shoot him or something. Cheryl will set him on fire and roast marshmallows on his corpse. 

I figured BugHead would have troubles this season, but not like this! I hope they work things out quickly.  Also, I know that the serpents in their snake masks in Jugheads room was a dream, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was real. Everyone on this show is so ridiculously extra. 

[Miss Dee]

I didn't realize how invested I was in Bughead until they were both near tears in the diner, wishing they could run away together. Damn, but I like those two actors and how they spark as two of the truly good people in Riverdale.

Knew the breakup was coming but it was more "star-crossed lovers" than I had expected. Going to run to the spoiler thread now to see just how bad it's going to get.

LOL Archie - you're supposed to break up with Jughead in such a way that Betty can walk it back; the minute you hear "Southside Serpent" you lose it and go scorched earth instead. You are the very definition of "goober".

Edited November 9, 2017 by Miss Dee

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

And Veronica use to party with coke?!?!?!  That was a surprise. 

In, what, eighth or ninth grade, I guess?  Not that this is unusual on teen dramas, particularly CW shows, but that's more of a college student backstory to me.  Not that I care; this is Riverdale, go crazy.

Speaking of which, while this show is usually dark in the cheerfully silly sense (i.e., everything to do with the Serpents initiation this week), the ending where Betty feeds a name to a crazed killer and, from the way she says it, feels a certain satisfaction in doing so, is actually, legitimately dark.  I didn't see that coming.

Just now, tennisgurl said:

However, I knew instantly that this Nick guy would be bad news. He practically screams "bad guy from an episode of Law and Order SVU"  the second you see him.

From a feminist POV, I like that the sequence of events with Veronica and Cheryl reinforces that somebody who acts like Nick did in the former instance is exactly the sort of person who would do the latter, rather than, as he initially put on to Veronica, somebody who apologizes and moves on (well, I guess he did move on, but to another target).

[Littlebitofcheese]

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I actually wonder if Black Hood knows about that time Betty almost deep fried a guy in a hot tub for slut shaming her sister. 

Could the guy in the hottub BE the black hood ? Remember he knows her dark side thus "we are the same" ?  He was part of the FB team and school he would know everything about Betty and her friends? Just a thought 

[ybrik]

WTF Riverdale. This show gets more and more insane. 

Did Betty just indirectly kill a guy? Also is this the Black Hood really calling Betty? Sheriff Keller said the handwriting on Betty's letter didn't match the one to her mom. It's possible it is the same person just changing handwriting to make the police and everyone else believe that they shouldn't be watching Betty more closely and if Betty had told about the calls to not believe her. Or if it isn't the killer than it could be someone using the killings hide who he really is. If it is the latter I think the person calling Betty is either going to be Chuck or possibly her brother. 

Holy cow when I first saw the legs and revealing dress I was thinking, it has to be Cheryl but damn it was Alice Cooper.  Madchen Amick looked amazing.

The Veronica with Josie and Pussycats beat down of Nick was great. 

Not a fan of Jughead in the SSS storyline. Also not really fond of him and Toni. Not because of any shipping reasons but mainly this seems like an Archie thing to do, break up with one girl and have another one waiting.

Edited November 9, 2017 by ybrik

[SeanC]

Just now, ybrik said:

Not because of any shipping reasons but mainly this seems like an Archie thing to do, break up with one girl and have another one waiting.

They share that in common -- it's why they're close friends.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah Jughead and Toni’s Kiss was out of character for Jughead. But Toni leaned in, I’m hopefully next week Jughead makes it a point to not be into it. Otherwise.. Toni as a character is exactly what everyone thought she was going to be, and I find that disappointing, I wanted to try and like her.

im just sad that Bughead is over already and we didn’t even get an actual breakup scene. Archie did it. That was the worst.

[SeanC]

8 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

LOL Archie - you're supposed to break up with Jughead in such a way that Betty can walk it back; the minute you hear "Southside Serpent" you lose it and go scorched earth instead. You are the very definition of "goober".

His reaction to the Serpents was genuine, I think.  That's the point where he went from kind of acting out what Betty told him to say to actually kind of believing it.

EDIT:  Also, I know the show is pushing this whole north vs. south rivalry as fundamentally misguided in a "plague on both your houses" sort of way, but the fact that the Serpents immediately started talking about building a pipe bomb to blow up a newspaper office kind of makes me side with Alice.

Edited November 9, 2017 by SeanC

[jay741982]

8 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah Jughead and Toni’s Kiss was out of character for Jughead. But Toni leaned in, I’m hopefully next week Jughead makes it a point to not be into it. Otherwise.. Toni as a character is exactly what everyone thought she was going to be, and I find that disappointing, I wanted to try and like her.

im just sad that Bughead is over already and we didn’t even get an actual breakup scene. Archie did it. That was the worst.

I don't think Bughead is over. Betty will find a way to explain everything to Veronica and Jughead. Also seriously Toni you kiss Jughead so soon after he and Betty look dunzo? Booooooooooo!!! Also I'm sick of Bughead being tortued and OF FUCKING COURSE Archie has to go see Jughead when the Serpents are coming and I HATE the Cliche of no one talking to each other and Jughead better go confront Betty and not take Archie telling him she wanted to break up as total fact 

22 minutes ago, Littlebitofcheese said:

Could the guy in the hottub BE the black hood ? Remember he knows her dark side thus "we are the same" ?  He was part of the FB team and school he would know everything about Betty and her friends? Just a thought 

If Chuck is the Black hood he would be having to pull the strings or something cause the guy in the hood is White

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, jay741982 said:

I don't think Bughead is over. Betty will find a way to explain everything to Veronica and Jughead. Also seriously Toni you kiss Jughead so soon after he and Betty look dunzo? Booooooooooo!!! Also I'm sick of Bughead being tortued and OF FUCKING COURSE Archie has to go see Jughead when the Serpents are coming and I HATE the Cliche of no one talking to each other and Jughead better go confront Betty and not take Archie telling him she wanted to break up as total fact 

This 100%. I’m like really upset over the whole thing and not because of the actual breakup, like yes I’m not happy with that, but I figured Bughead had a ticking time clock, I’m just mad they didn’t get to break it up themselves and also that it feels like they’ve hardly gotten any real couple scenes together this season. It just bothers me.

[jay741982]

1 minute ago, WhosThatGirl said:

This 100%. I’m like really upset over the whole thing and not because of the actual breakup, like yes I’m not happy with that, but I figured Bughead had a ticking time clock, I’m just mad they didn’t get to break it up themselves and also that it feels like they’ve hardly gotten any real couple scenes together this season. It just bothers me.

Bughead was breaking my heart. Betty herself was. Seriously I think Lili is a gem. Betty s agony of wanting to protect Polly, Veronica and Jughead and the way she cut off Veronica and Jughead. I don't like that she sent Archie to break up with Jughead and the way Archie acted. I'm thinking she thought if she did it herself Juggy would have saw through her BS. But then Jughead seems to just buy it which ticked me off. Writers sure ain't endearing Toni to Bugheaders 

[WhosThatGirl]

4 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Bughead was breaking my heart. Betty herself was. Seriously I think Lili is a gem. Betty s agony of wanting to protect Polly, Veronica and Jughead and the way she cut off Veronica and Jughead. I don't like that she sent Archie to break up with Jughead and the way Archie acted. I'm thinking she thought if she did it herself Juggy would have saw through her BS. But then Jughead seems to just buy it which ticked me off. Writers sure ain't endearing Toni to Bugheaders 

Right? I mean look.. I think the actress who plays Toni shouldn’t get the hate she’s getting, it’s extreme but I mean we are only on episode 5 and Betty and Jughead just broke up and she’s already moving in on him? I mean.. side eyeing it all. I’m hoping Jughead isn’t into it next week, it seems a little out of character for

him to move that fast. But who knows. 

 

And Lili and Cole are just the best for me. That scene in the diner was amazing. They have the best chemistry with each other. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[tennisgurl]

20 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Also, I know the show is pushing this whole north vs. south rivalry as fundamentally misguided in a "plague on both your houses" sort of way, but the fact that the Serpents immediately started talking about building a pipe bomb to blow up a newspaper office kind of makes me side with Alice.

Yeah, its hard to be mad at Alice saying how the south side is filled with criminals, when almost everyone we`ve met from the south side is a criminal. Its hard to feel like the serpents are being unfairly persecuted when they escalate pretty quickly to building pipe bombs. Granted, the north side has plenty of criminals and bad apples as well, but we also see plenty of good or more complicated people, while, outside of Jug heads family, the only people we meet are drug dealing gang members. Stereotyping a whole area, especially one that seems to be filled with poverty, crime, and drugs, is certainly wrong, but if they want to push this whole north/south rivalry as being based around misinformation and mistrust on both sides, they're going to have to add more dimensions to the south side characters. 

[methodwriter85]

This is my theory- Black Hood is Betty's biological father. He's a Serpent who got sent away from Riverdale to a mental asylum. He was a childhood friend of Alice , and he raped her, resulting in Betty. (Except Black Hood doesn't acknowledge it as a rape- he genuinely believes they made love.) Alice and Hal have kept it from Betty all these years because it was too traumatic for them to admit that it happened.

[catrice2]

Oh, the freshman curse!  Bad 2nd year for Flash, Arrow (maybe that was year 3?) Supergirl, and now Riverdale and pretty much every other show I've watched that was new.  I have not idea what is going on with this show, but I don't like it, or any character on the show right now.....

[UNOSEZ]

Madchen Amick was looking smoking in that kinda hot kinda ugly dress.. That serpent neclace was on point tho... How exactly does Archie misconstrue him trespassing in southside territory and tagging up buildings and waving guns in folks face.. That lead to an all out gang battle as the serpents jumping him and his friends... Ugh... I wish they woulda had toni be anything other than the other girl... I like the actress and character but this boxes her in... St.  Clair did seem like a SVU reject... Can they legally change the designation of the actress who plays Josie from regular cast to just special musical guest.. Cuz i don't remember her actually speaking 

[jay741982]

24 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

This is my theory- Black Hood is Betty's biological father. He's a Serpent who got sent away from Riverdale to a mental asylum. He was a childhood friend of Alice , and he raped her, resulting in Betty. (Except Black Hood doesn't acknowledge it as a rape- he genuinely believes they made love.) Alice and Hal have kept it from Betty all these years because it was too traumatic for them to admit that it happened.

Nice theory! And it would make Betty by Blood a non Blossom since the Coopers are actually Blossoms. 

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Nice theory! And it would make Betty by Blood a non Blossom since the Coopers are actually Blossoms. 

I wonder if he’s also the father of Betty’s long lost brother too. 

[truthaboutluv]

Every week I read comments right after the episode, hoping that this will be the week I get genuinely curious and excited to watch an entire episode and instead I am always just more convinced why I don't want to. I think I'm officially out. I'm not sure what the writers are going for with this show anymore but I officially don't care.

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Every week I read comments right after the episode, hoping that this will be the week I get genuinely curious and excited to watch an entire episode and instead I am always just more convinced why I don't want to. I think I'm officially out. I'm not sure what the writers are going for with this show anymore but I officially don't care.

I get it. I’m slowly waning on this season each time I watch. And not just for the fact that they broke up Bughead but I don’t know where they are going either.

I actually thought last season was a pretty good season and fit together quite nicely, although I read here many people feel it was all over the place, I disagree. I think aside from the first episode this season, this season has been all over the place. I also feel like they keep adding more and more people into the show and losing focus. And yes it only episode 5.. but to me that’s the problem, we are in episode 5 and we still have many to go so it feels like so many things are going to get lost here.

[truthaboutluv]

I think the show is suffering from the same mistake the writers of Unreal made in season two of that show. They overestimated and miscalculated what made the show a hit in the first place and went too far in the wrong direction in season two. Unreal writers thought that people loved the dark nature of the show so much that the best idea would be to go more in that direction and so they took the show to a very fucked up and disturbing place. And well that didn't go too well.

That's what's happening here. The writers clearly believe that the viewers were so in love with the "who killed Jason" mystery that turning the show into some poor man's serial killer mystery would appeal to viewers. And you know what, maybe I'm the minority here and it does to most viewers. But just speaking for myself, it doesn't interest me one lick. I don't care about some hood guy and whatever tie to Betty and theories and whatever else. The whole thing seems incredibly hockey and lame to be honest. This is so bad that dammit right now I'd take Archie's lame music dream plot line (okay not really).

I just think the show could have kept the mystery about who shot Fred, probably tie it into some shadiness with the Lodges, Archie's PTSD about the shooting still be explored, Jughead's Serpent plot could still exist and since they're so desperate for some tired cliche triangle, Toni could have still existed. And of course all the other characters like Cheryl, Kevin, etc and their issues. This serial killer plot was not needed and it's just a complete drag on the show in my opinion. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I think the show is suffering from the same mistake the writers of Unreal made in season two of that show. They overestimated and miscalculated what made the show a hit in the first place and went too far in the wrong direction in season two. Unreal writers thought that people loved the dark nature of the show so much that the best idea would be to go more in that direction and so they took the show to a very fucked up and disturbing place. And well that didn't go too well.

That's what's happening here. The writers clearly believe that the viewers were so in love with the "who killed Jason" mystery that turning the show into some poor man's serial killer mystery would appeal to viewers. And you know what, maybe I'm the minority here and it does to most viewers. But just speaking for myself, it doesn't interest me one lick. I don't care about some hood guy and whatever tie to Betty and theories and whatever else. The whole thing seems incredibly hockey and lame to be honest. This is so bad that dammit right now I'd take Archie's lame music dream plot line (okay not really).

I just think the show could have kept the mystery about who shot Fred, probably tie it into some shadiness with the Lodges, Archie's PTSD about the shooting still be explored, Jughead's Serpent plot could still exist and since they're so desperate for some tired cliche triangle, Toni could have still existed. And of course all the other characters like Cheryl, Kevin, etc and their issues. This serial killer plot was not needed and it's just a complete drag on the show in my opinion. 

Once again.. I agree with you. I still stand by what I said also that there’s so much going on but I agree witg

you about the dark ploy; Only because I feel it’s getting really dark. Like really really dark. Last season they had a balance with darkness and humor and I like my share of dark teenage dramas but I need there to be some lightness as well. And now the show has none of that, really.

Take this episode for instance: We have The Killer calling Betty and putting her in an emotional ringer to cut off all her relationships, we have a almost sexual assault on Cheryl and we have Jugheads gang initiations. It’s all dark.  

I don’t know. Plus it seems like and I said this in last weeks episode topic that all the characters have 180 with their personalitys from the season finale, and the timeline on that is like two weeks. I’m starting to think I might prefer to believe this show ended last year and that the deleted scenes and au endings were the real end. 

I never watched Unreal but for me this show seems to be doing what PLL did in the 5th season when they decided to change the direction and bring back a character and make the show dark all the time. They tried to get their footing back when the had the characters flash forward but it was never the same and I worry the same for this show. 

I loved the first season but each new episode I come away a little bit dissatisfied with where they seem to be taking the story. It really is becoming like scream lite as someone said and we already got that tv show and it didn’t do well. 

[AdorkableSars]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I enjoyed the Lodges working together, as devious as they are. However, I knew instantly that this Nick guy would be bad news. He practically screams "bad guy from an episode of Law and Order SVU"  the second you see him. I thought the whole Out Tonight sequence was awesome, the editing was just perfect. And the Pussycats gave Nick one hell of a beating! It was also nice to see a bit more of Josie and Cheryl's friendship, even if it was just in the background. You know, Nick might be lucky if Black Hood finds him. BH will just shoot him or something. Cheryl will set him on fire and roast marshmallows on his corpse. 

My only prior experience seeing Graham Phillips was in Staten Island Summer, where he played a really cute, charming, sweet character. So I was impressed by well he played then skeevy Nick St. Clair. Because he was skeevy AF. LOVED seeing Veronica, Josie, Valerie, and Melody kick his ass though. That was some well-served girl power. Also loved getting another Josie and the Pussycats song this episode. I totally agree with your point about how well edited the scene with them singing Out Tonight was. The juxtaposition of a catchy and upbeat song with all of those awful things (Cheryl being drugged and nearly assaulted, Jughead getting the shit beat out of him, Betty falling apart...) was quite jarring, which completely worked for an episode like this.

I think Jughead responding to the kiss was more about him feeling defeated, and just needing human interaction/affection more than anything. Dude has been to hell and back more than once, and that\s just since Riverdale started, not even including what happened before the timeline in which the show started (like his mom taking his sister and leaving town). This episode he (seemingly) lost his best friend/brother Archie, and got a few pounds of salt poured into those wounds when said best friend/brother told him that Betty wanted to break up with him, and has wanted to for some time now. Not to mention feeling like he had to join to the Serpents to keep the peace, and going through a crazy messed up initiation. And Toni was there for him throughout all of that, and is a fellow serpent. He was shat upon, and found comfort in someone who seems to support him, especially when he's lost all of his support system recently (his dad, Archie, Betty).

2 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

This 100%. I’m like really upset over the whole thing and not because of the actual breakup, like yes I’m not happy with that, but I figured Bughead had a ticking time clock, I’m just mad they didn’t get to break it up themselves and also that it feels like they’ve hardly gotten any real couple scenes together this season. It just bothers me.

Yup. It sucks. A lot. Especially coming after their sweetest scene of the season at Pop's earlier in the episode. Hoping it's only temporary. Once all of this Black Hood crap gets solved, they can hopefully be honest with each other, and have that strong communication and love that they used to...

BLACK HOOD, who the hell are you?!?! The psychological trauma he's putting Betty through is mind blowing. On one hand, I think Betty is ridiculous for not telling anyone other than Archie about the Black Hood calling her. On the other hand, the cops in Riverdale are absolute buffoons, and her own mom thinks she made up the letter/crypted code. She is stuck between a rock and a hard place for sure.. One the plus side, Lili Reinhart is CRUSHING it. Her acting this episode was incredible. 

I had thought that Alice was starting to redeem herself towards the end of last season, but now she's kind of a jerk again. That being said, the slo-mo scene of her sauntering into the party with that red dress/snake necklace was outstanding. 

I can't believe how much happened this episode. My jaw was dropped with my hand over my mouth for literally the whole last half of the episode. I needed a big ass glass of wine after that to ease the tension in my body and calm my nerves. On the plus side, I think they're gearing up for a Black Hood reveal soon, and so the whole season hopefully won't focus on this, and we can get to something else after. Though this is riveting as hell...

[Dee]

Madchen Amick is having the time of her life. And it definitely shows.

[UsernameFatigue]

With each passing episode, I am liking this season less and less. The story line is just over the top. Because some friend of Veronica's has drugs at a party, everyone except Betty decides to partake? Not buying it. And way too much violence for me - from thepdrugging/attempted rape, to beating up of the wannabe rapist, to Jughead getting beat up as part of an initiation. Way, way too dark for my tastes. The only second I was even remotely entertained was when Alice Cooper entered the party - I thought for sure it was Cheryl. I will give it one more episode, but if the series continues down the road it appears to be following, I will be taking the nearest exit. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[WhosThatGirl]

22 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

With each passing episode, I am liking this season less and less. The story line is just over the top. Because some friend of Veronica's has drugs at a party, everyone expect Betty decides to partake? Not buying it. And way too much violence for me - from the drugging/attempted rape, to beating up of the wannabe rapist, to Jughead getting beat up as part of an initiation. Way, way too dark for my tastes. The only second I was even remotely entertained was when Alice Cooper entered the party - I thought for sure it was Cheryl. I will give it one more episode, but if the series continues down the road it appears to be following, I will be taking the nearest exit. 

I think I was saying this earlier as well. I mean.. they said this season was going to be dark but this really is getting to be too much. As I said in another post, last season they balanced it out quite well. I think I’ll stick around until Winter break and then see how I feel and then I might keep it on the DVR but I might bow out too.

And the sad thing is, I still like the actors. I love Cole and Lili and they are doing a great job, but I agree that last montage was a lot. In one scene. This episode there was no room to breathe at all; this type of Thing works well for a movie but for a tv show episode, it would be nice to have a moment to breathe in a scene. And this episode was just hit after hit and the more I think about it, the more i realize I’m just not a fan of this episode. I loved the diner Bughead scene but that’s about it, everything else is just too dark for me but I’m still holding out. I just don’t know if I want 19 or so more episodes like this.

[Snookums]

Oof. I like me some chiaroscuro but it can't be ALL dark.

I'm assuming/hoping they're piling on the ouchies in order to build to a climax (this kind of thing always seems to work better on streaming where you can watch several episodes in row) but DAMN. 

Quote

 it’s like the writers are writing her less smart this season.

Absolutely; Betty, why the hell would you go to an abandoned house after dark (or midafternoon if you're using Lodge Open House time) to meet a crazy killer??? But I have to admit that at least the show did build in an excuse--I'd be afraid of that lunatic. He's shown that he has no compunction about murdering people, including teenagers, and it's not like Sheriff Keller is going to be any use. And frankly she's not the only one written down when the plot needs its various cogs and wheels clanked forward another foot. Archie's always been a lunkhead but I can't think of any of the main characters who haven't been inexplicably dumb/disinterested when required. 

Lili did do a wonderful job of looking like somebody slowly melting under an unbearable burden. It seems odd to think how much good acting is required on crazy ass shows like this but it really brings it from "eye roll" to "gleeful enjoyment" altogether.  And how her need for vengeance comes out with both publishing the expose on Alice and giving St. Claire's name to BH illustrates that Dark Betty isn't too far below the surface. 

Okay, on to other stuff!

Alice owning her Serpenty past in the most FANTASTIC OUTFIT EVER made this whole season so far worth it--all it lacked was Kevin falling to his knees in blissful fashion blackout. And interesting little play with Hal; he tells Hermione and Hiram that Alice was too upset to cover the open house but when she swans in like Cleopatra she tells him to go to hell. Hmmmm! 

(But, again, I have to ask: why are people acting like this is a surprise?? Alice being a Southside Serpent is absolutely no secret! A) This was only about twenty years ago and B) Everybody in town obviously has no other goals in life except rummaging in each others' closets for skeletons, and C) IT WAS FRONT. PAGE. NEWS. [On the slowest news day ever, apparently, but still.] Black Hood should be checking that the town's water supply doesn't come from the River Lethe before he guns down anybody else.)

Speaking of Serpents; Jughead is apparently the Archie Andrews of the week, deciding that since his grown, experienced dad is in jail it's his job to rally and control the gang before they BLOW UP the newspaper with a FRIGGIN' PIPE BOMB. The hell??? Jug, I don't care how useless Keller is, you need to call him right away--this is FBI, rendition to Guantanamo horrific levels of escalation, and apparently every single adult member of the Serpents was fine with it! And you think, what? That being FP's kid is going to make anybody listen to you, follow you, obey you? For the next twelve hours until the brain bleed you probably got from all those blows to the head puts you in a coma, at least? What about this situation makes you think you can do anything about it? Stop macking on Rebound Toni and think for a second. 

Archie...I'm not going to rag on you too much beyond not telling an adult about Betty's dilemma because it's clear that she's falling apart and every single grown man and woman in Riverdale is useless, actively evil, or both. He really was in a hopeless situation and the whole confrontation with Jug showed that he, too, had a lot of anger that wasn't being channeled properly (duh.) At least he didn't run off to form another vigilante group with Riverdale's household pets.

Veronica shows that she ain't takin' shit from nobody once again--unabashedly loved the girl beatdown on Nick. They didn't make it look cute or girly--he's probably got multiple broken ribs at least and it's less than he deserves. I do wonder if his parents are going to be terribly eager to invest in this new Eden thing, though. 

At this point I'm thinking that the Pussycats never talking is trying to become a deliberate joke by the writers. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Snookums

[UsernameFatigue]

I really wonder who the show's target audience is? I would have thought teenagers (since it is about teenagers) and 20 somethings? I am sure the show attracts all ages, but I do wonder who they are hoping to attract? My husband's cousin and her family were on a ferry going to Vancouver Island this summer. Cole and KJ happened to be on the same ferry, and cousin's kids recognized Cole and KJ and had their picture taken with them. The kids are 11 and 14, so presumably if they recognized them they watch the show. I don't know this season if, as a parent of tweens or young teens, I would be happy about that. Whereas I would have had no problem last season.

I do love Cole and Lili together on the show, and was not surprised to read that they are a couple IRL. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[WhosThatGirl]

The target age should be teens. As the show cleaned up at the TCAs this past August (I know because I sadly watched and felt incredibly old) but I feel like the powers that Be want an older demographic now. The show and the actors have been getting all different kinds of media attention lately from different angles and I think they want a different age. I’m not sure what age CW as a network looks for now. They have a lot of superhero shows so I’m not sure what age those cater to-I know I watch supergirl- and they have supernatural which has been a show for pretty much forever and seems to sway towards 20 something’s. So I don’t know. The show that airs after this one is the new dynasty which isn’t doing well at all in ratings so I don’t know what the age is. It is really the only teen drama around  on any network really right now so it serves a niche but it’s gearing real high towards adult feels. 

But I agree it’s lost it’s lost it’s vibe of quirkiness it had last season and that is for sure intentional. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by WhosThatGirl
Added some more thoughts on the cw network.

[morakot]

For the most part, I am loving this show! It is completely over the top and they all know it, but it still makes some internal sense. A few other comments:

- Betty was specifically told by Black Hood not to tell her mother, father, Jughead, Veronica, or the sheriff about his calls or demands, and threatened to kill the people she loved if she did talk to them. For whatever reason, Archie was NOT included in that list so she took advantage of the loophole and told Archie. Archie COULD have told any of the other people as he was not under BH's threats.

- It felt like watching Pretty Little Liars and A in this episode. The only difference is that I am confident the BH story will be complete by the season's end at the very earliest and will not drag on and on and on and on....

- I understood why Betty didn't break up directly with Jughead; it would have been too painful for them both and it would be a lot easier to walk it back if she could say Archie misunderstood or took it too far. In spite of that, my heart hurts for Bughead, and I'm still mad at Toni for taking advantage of a boy in the first throes of a breaking heart. (I keep telling myself to remember what happens to the rebound girl.)

- I am shocked that the Pussycat Girls (except for V) did not have a single line of spoken dialog in this episode. They could have been speaking at the party, they could have been yelling at Nick St Claire, they could have been consoling their cheer caption, Cheryl. As a multi, I don't have that much of a racial axe to grind, but this really did seem deliberate.

- Finally, Southside is now officially SoDale! So is the other end of town NoDale?

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

The target age should be teens. 

Doubt it. High school dramas, which may be overdone, are our last shared cultural experience.

 However, if you are in high school are you necessarily drawn to watch shows or read books about it? More likely to want to watch superheroes, I’d think. Even so the demo is 18 to something  because more money and maybe increasinglywomen because they are the family shoppers.  (This is new I think)

An awful lot of young adult fiction is romance and read by adult romance readers  

No I think about teens doesn’t translate to watched by teens , necessarily.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Affogato

[Affogato]

I went over to the comic thread. And then googled around. The black hood, red circle and dark Betty are all Archie Comics standbys. This is a lot more comic book than at first was apparent. Could be a good thing. 

[PeekaBoo]

The episode was amazing, i'm still in this show!!! But it was way too much!

I have to point out the pacing yet again, I mean, ok, two weeks in and there's been way too many clues about who BH is that they can't seriously drag it out for the entire season and wait until the last episodes to reveal who it is, can they?... so that means, what else do they have planned?? Now thtat's scary!

Ok, I think they're pulling a Grundy again with the whole Red Circle thing, just one episode from this huge massive fight and already its almost ignored and forgotten!!! Yeah, a bit annoyed with the pacing, they could have used several episodes to see how everyone's doing. What the hell happened to Archie's vigilante status?!!? There he was letting this sleezy guy chatting up his girl and dissing his town and he was just staring like a kicked puppy?!?! Come on Arch, grow a pair!!!

Eugh, I accept Jughead's noble cause of being the guy to step in as the mediator betweetn both sides but it was heart wrenching to watch... It was sad, yeah the whole initiation was stupid and whatever but I felt so sorry for him... How the hell can he get out of this unscathed? Is he meant to get a bad ending? Poor kid...

Meow!!! Can you give the girls an ovation for rescuing Cheryl and beating the crap out of Nick!! That's girl power for you!

Nick! What a sleeze ball... It's nice that he comes around to reveal Veronica's dirty past but I hope he has another purpose than to be BH's next target.

Ohhh, Alice, sweet alice in that (imo) ss chic wear (which I was also convinced was Cheryl in the first place) and that snake necklace... Ouh, sweet indeed!!! I hope the revelation of her past will reconnect her to her roots and help out somehow with FP or the Serpents in general.... But what I was completely surprised is how Betty did not react even more when she found out about mommy dearest!?!?! I mean yeah, she went out and published the article but still...

I don't know, I've been getting the feeling that Veronica is somewhat desperate to make things work with Archie? Am I the only one that's noticing that? Don't get me wrong, they have the sexy chemistry going on but she's just being sooo damn loyal to him but its sorta like doing what she can to make him happy and sticking by him no matter what? That's it like forced?  I gotta hand it to her that she took Betty's honest truth in a fashion but god knows if that's going to create tension (a la comic books) between the two in the long run.

The Lodges -- still no clue what they're up to but its up to no good... Eh, that SoDale thing, that's where the Twilight drive in used to be right?

Betty -- Oh that poor girl... I was suffering with her all throughout the episode.... Gotta hand it to her to actually comply to BH's wishes and going through them... Everything the BH is making her do is making her go darker and i'm just wondering how dark will she go... Lili was excellent in this epi and kudos to her!

The whole break-up saga (which reminds me of MerDer on grey's anatomy) --- My little bughead heart is shattered right now, I knew it was coming but I never thought it would have been like that... I understand why she sent Archie there, I don't think she would have been able to go through it without Jughead picking up on the lies or without revealing the truth but Archie went over the line as always... He REALLY did a good job at convincing Jughead that Betty wanted to break up with him, he probably got pissed because of finding out he was helping the Serpents or because of his secret jealousy of their relationship and made things ten times worse... Seeing as Jughead could always pick up his father's lies, I really hoped he could pick up on Archie's as well and for a moment I think he did but I think his insecurities about them, the town divided and pretty much the entire universe against them, he just didn't fight it and went with the initiation... It was very evident the heartbreak he felt when the message got through, it was hard to watch, snif... I think they'll get back together, eventually, they still love one another.... RAS better come with a hotter scene than what Varchie's been getting...

And the Toni kiss at the end... WTF!!! Yeah, ok, boo Toni, home wrecker grrr.... I can understand that he's vulnerable and now he is alone, the serpents are his family and Toni's the only one that "cares" for him but I don't know... They have each other's backs, that i'm convinced about and Toni doesn't strike me as bad, just sorta like, "i'm in this too and we can't get out"... Now post breakup, I'm more worried that Jug's going to on a bigger path of self-destruction....

You know, if they are going for a Barchie pairing, they are doing it very nicely, everything is leading to that point... Not that I want that but everything's pointing to that...

From next week's previews, I guess Jarchie reconcile...  Maybe it will be anticlimatic like last episode between Kevin + Betty. I hope Archie will tell Jug the truth or give I'm clues. Like someone pointed out, maybe then we'll see the scene where Betty helps fix Jug's car? Will she be acting like in the beginning o fthe show after ARchie's refusal, planting smiles on her face, happy to be -friends- with Jug and even happier when/if she sees him with Toni? I dearly hope not... And FP, what does he think about his kid joining the Serpents?

Great episode, loved it tremendously, I hope it doesn't get darker than this because my nerves can't take it lol.... I'm loving the show, it's different yes, I just gotta start thinking that its not a teeny-soapy drama, this is dark shit...

Oh, hey, we got to see Josie and Reggie hook up!! :D

And why oh why doesn't anybody go to the police when they need help anymore lol!!!

[Dee]

I love how Kevin always finds his way to Cheryl. The boy ADORES drama.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Dee

[sacrebleu]

Quote

He practically screams "bad guy from an episode of Law and Order SVU"  the second you see him.

heh. Not for me. I still saw him as the most boring/useless character on The Good Wife. 

I'll be over here in the corner, in denial over Bughead.

My (totally speculative) theory is that Hiram is behind the Black Hood-- and it has to do with buying up land. (so, now we're firmly in Scooby Doo territory-- with a serial killer instead of a ghost) And technically, not a serial killer-- because Archie's dad and Midge & Moose survived. The only person dead thus far is Grundy.

[galax-arena]

Oh yay, another tired "I have to hurt and push you away for your own goooooood" plot. Trashy soaps/dramas love that kind of story, don't they? LMAO. 

Anyway, Betty siccing the Black Hood on someone wasn't really how I wanted her to get more in touch with dark-ish Betty but I'll take it. I prefer Betty coldly~ doing what she has to do instead of being weepy. 

I rolled my eyes when Archie acted so indignant towards the other serpents. Dude, did you forget to mention that you pulled a fucking gun on them? You instigated all that shit, dumbass. 

Another point against Jughead: He clearly doesn't appreciate an adorable mutt like the Beast. >:(  

I'm glad to see Bughead shaken up after seeing how the fandom treated Vanessa Morgan (#notallbugheadfans); I hope she's invested in private security after that kiss lol. 

OK, all of my comments about this show seem (are) super negative but honestly this is one of those shows I love to hate. I love how trashy/ridiculous/stupid it is. I've seen the consensus that this isn't as good as season 1, but season 2 gave me Archie trying to start a militia, making shirtless vigilante videos that look like a scene out of gay porn, and waving a gun around while spraying red graffiti. I still cackle when I think about it. The one thing that season 1 gave me that is missing in season 2 is Dark Betty "exploring her BDSM sexuality" (tm Cheryl). 

[AdorkableSars]

9 hours ago, AdorkableSars said:

I think Jughead responding to the kiss was more about him feeling defeated, and just needing human interaction/affection more than anything. Dude has been to hell and back more than once, and that\s just since Riverdale started, not even including what happened before the timeline in which the show started (like his mom taking his sister and leaving town). This episode he (seemingly) lost his best friend/brother Archie, and got a few pounds of salt poured into those wounds when said best friend/brother told him that Betty wanted to break up with him, and has wanted to for some time now. Not to mention feeling like he had to join to the Serpents to keep the peace, and going through a crazy messed up initiation. And Toni was there for him throughout all of that, and is a fellow serpent. He was shat upon, and found comfort in someone who seems to support him, especially when he's lost all of his support system recently (his dad, Archie, Betty).

Yes, I'm responding to my own message! I just want to say that while I'm Team Bughead ALL THE WAY, Cole and Vanessa do have a nice chemistry, and I want a Bughead reconciliation bad, but I do hope that Jughead and Toni can become good friends. Maybe even Betty and Toni. Because Toni actually seems like she is with Jughead on not wanting things to get too violent, and not wanting a full on war between the North and South. She clearly doesn't like the North side, but she seems to think that Sweet Pea et al are being idiots. Also, is Toni the only girl in the Serpents? Did she have to go through that initiation too? Because yikes. Although this episode did show us that girls are strong and tough. Still...

Oh, and also forgot to point out last night that Archie REALLY went for the jugular (hahaha...JUGular) when breaking up with Jughead for Betty last night. I know a lot of that was Archie projecting his own neurosis about the Serpents, but dang. Also, I think Jughead's #1 insecurity about his relationship with Betty has always been Archie.  You could see he feared that he was merely a rebound for Betty to tide her over until Archie came around and decided that he wanted Betty. So to have Archie deliver this breakup to him likely added even more to Jughead's heartbreak/drive to become a Serpent.

7 hours ago, Snookums said:

Oof. I like me some chiaroscuro but it can't be ALL dark.

I'm assuming/hoping they're piling on the ouchies in order to build to a climax (this kind of thing always seems to work better on streaming where you can watch several episodes in row) but DAMN. 

Speaking of Serpents; Jughead is apparently the Archie Andrews of the week, deciding that since his grown, experienced dad is in jail it's his job to rally and control the gang before they BLOW UP the newspaper with a FRIGGIN' PIPE BOMB. The hell??? Jug, I don't care how useless Keller is, you need to call him right away--this is FBI, rendition to Guantanamo horrific levels of escalation, and apparently every single adult member of the Serpents was fine with it! And you think, what? That being FP's kid is going to make anybody listen to you, follow you, obey you? For the next twelve hours until the brain bleed you probably got from all those blows to the head puts you in a coma, at least? What about this situation makes you think you can do anything about it? Stop macking on Rebound Toni and think for a second. 

 

Yeah, I agree. This is full on darkness. At least last season, there was some levity and humour every episode with Alice and Cheryl's one liners, Jughead's snark, and Kevin's sassiness. But this season - not so much. There's little bits of humour, but is also so, SO grim and terrifying. I was so ramped up and freaked out that even after a glass of wine and watching the CMA Awards after Riverdale, I still had trouble falling asleep and getting it off my mind. I had to listen to an Acoustic Chill playlist to relax. (And then I had a dream that I adopted a dog who looked like Hot Dog...that was actually pretty sweet.)

Good point about Jughead being a dummy. He's supposed to be the smart one on this show, along with Betty. But they are both making some questionable (to say the least) choices right now. 

1 hour ago, PeekaBoo said:

The episode was amazing, i'm still in this show!!! But it was way too much!

I have to point out the pacing yet again, I mean, ok, two weeks in and there's been way too many clues about who BH is that they can't seriously drag it out for the entire season and wait until the last episodes to reveal who it is, can they?... so that means, what else do they have planned?? Now thtat's scary!

The whole break-up saga (which reminds me of MerDer on grey's anatomy) --- My little bughead heart is shattered right now, I knew it was coming but I never thought it would have been like that... I understand why she sent Archie there, I don't think she would have been able to go through it without Jughead picking up on the lies or without revealing the truth but Archie went over the line as always... He REALLY did a good job at convincing Jughead that Betty wanted to break up with him, he probably got pissed because of finding out he was helping the Serpents or because of his secret jealousy of their relationship and made things ten times worse... Seeing as Jughead could always pick up his father's lies, I really hoped he could pick up on Archie's as well and for a moment I think he did but I think his insecurities about them, the town divided and pretty much the entire universe against them, he just didn't fight it and went with the initiation... It was very evident the heartbreak he felt when the message got through, it was hard to watch, snif... I think they'll get back together, eventually, they still love one another.... RAS better come with a hotter scene than what Varchie's been getting...

And the Toni kiss at the end... WTF!!! Yeah, ok, boo Toni, home wrecker grrr.... I can understand that he's vulnerable and now he is alone, the serpents are his family and Toni's the only one that "cares" for him but I don't know... They have each other's backs, that i'm convinced about and Toni doesn't strike me as bad, just sorta like, "i'm in this too and we can't get out"... Now post breakup, I'm more worried that Jug's going to on a bigger path of self-destruction....

You know, if they are going for a Barchie pairing, they are doing it very nicely, everything is leading to that point... Not that I want that but everything's pointing to that...

Great episode, loved it tremendously, I hope it doesn't get darker than this because my nerves can't take it lol.... I'm loving the show, it's different yes, I just gotta start thinking that its not a teeny-soapy drama, this is dark shit...

The pace they're going at, I don't think there is any way they can make this Black Hood drama go all season, which I really like, yet also fear what they have planned. Though this season alone, they've already covered murder, drugs, sexual assault, and gang initiation. Maybe, just maybe the last half of the season will have these kids being happy and normal teens who find light at the end of this dark-ass tunnel. and come through it stronger and ready to meet their full potential together as best friends/lovers forever! (Or with this show, maybe not...)

YES, the Bughead reconciliation if (hopefully when) it comes better be sweet, and it better be amazing, and they BETTER have a hot scene, even hotter than the one at the end of last season. Make it so, show! (Although they are leading up to possible Barchie naturally and nicely...which I don't like.)

Also, who ever thought "Lollipop" would be so ominous and horrifiying. I'll never listen to that song the same way again!

Well...I've avoided work long enough for one morning. Time to get back to it. Lord knows I know the paychecks to keep affording the cable AND wine that help me watch Riverdale. 

[Karen885]

I like how Nick is staying at the generic "five seasons hotel" instead of the name brand four seasons hotel.  What is this fifth season?

[sacrebleu]

Quote

I like how Nick is staying at the generic "five seasons hotel" instead of the name brand four seasons hotel.  What is this fifth season?

I'm gonna say in Riverdale-- it's syrup harvesting season.

[wingster55]

I'm still honestly lost on when Betty and Jughead became this intense mutual feelings thing. In s1 it's like they flipped a switch without any real progression. Them not being able to communicate with each other is a sign that it isn't as solid as they believe.

Unlike imo Veronica and Archie which progressed pretty organically over s1 and this year we're seeing a real foundation being built between the two. 

How horrible for Cheryl. Glad the scene wasn't too graphic. 

So Josie and Reggie was taking place...in the background of course and Josie with 0 lines. 

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Karen885 said:

What is this fifth season?

Salt, Pepper, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme.

Team Tughead (with a name like that, they have to bring the heat!)

Betty should have broken up with Jughead in person.  #feminism  #girlpower

[PeekaBoo]

50 minutes ago, galax-arena said:

Oh yay, another tired "I have to hurt and push you away for your own goooooood" plot. Trashy soaps/dramas love that kind of story, don't they? LMAO. 

Anyway, Betty siccing the Black Hood on someone wasn't really how I wanted her to get more in touch with dark-ish Betty but I'll take it. I prefer Betty coldly~ doing what she has to do instead of being weepy. 

I rolled my eyes when Archie acted so indignant towards the other serpents. Dude, did you forget to mention that you pulled a fucking gun on them? You instigated all that shit, dumbass. 

Another point against Jughead: He clearly doesn't appreciate an adorable mutt like the Beast. >:(  

I'm glad to see Bughead shaken up after seeing how the fandom treated Vanessa Morgan (#notallbugheadfans); I hope she's invested in private security after that kiss lol. 

OK, all of my comments about this show seem (are) super negative but honestly this is one of those shows I love to hate. I love how trashy/ridiculous/stupid it is. I've seen the consensus that this isn't as good as season 1, but season 2 gave me Archie trying to start a militia, making shirtless vigilante videos that look like a scene out of gay porn, and waving a gun around while spraying red graffiti. I still cackle when I think about it. The one thing that season 1 gave me that is missing in season 2 is Dark Betty "exploring her BDSM sexuality" (tm Cheryl). 

Omg. Your comment made me lol. I'm loving these humouristic answers and comments.  Its fun talking trash about cheesy teeny shows. I mean you would think that shows wpuld have figured new and original story ideas but they still go for the cliche storylines eugh.  

 

34 minutes ago, AdorkableSars said:

Yes, I'm responding to my own message! I just want to say that while I'm Team Bughead ALL THE WAY, Cole and Vanessa do have a nice chemistry, and I want a Bughead reconciliation bad, but I do hope that Jughead and Toni can become good friends. Maybe even Betty and Toni. Because Toni actually seems like she is with Jughead on not wanting things to get too violent, and not wanting a full on war between the North and South. She clearly doesn't like the North side, but she seems to think that Sweet Pea et al are being idiots. Also, is Toni the only girl in the Serpents? Did she have to go through that initiation too? Because yikes. Although this episode did show us that girls are strong and tough. Still...

Oh, and also forgot to point out last night that Archie REALLY went for the jugular (hahaha...JUGular) when breaking up with Jughead for Betty last night. I know a lot of that was Archie projecting his own neurosis about the Serpents, but dang. Also, I think Jughead's #1 insecurity about his relationship with Betty has always been Archie.  You could see he feared that he was merely a rebound for Betty to tide her over until Archie came around and decided that he wanted Betty. So to have Archie deliver this breakup to him likely added even more to Jughead's heartbreak/drive to become a Serpent.

Yeah, I agree. This is full on darkness. At least last season, there was some levity and humour every episode with Alice and Cheryl's one liners, Jughead's snark, and Kevin's sassiness. But this season - not so much. There's little bits of humour, but is also so, SO grim and terrifying. I was so ramped up and freaked out that even after a glass of wine and watching the CMA Awards after Riverdale, I still had trouble falling asleep and getting it off my mind. I had to listen to an Acoustic Chill playlist to relax. (And then I had a dream that I adopted a dog who looked like Hot Dog...that was actually pretty sweet.)

Good point about Jughead being a dummy. He's supposed to be the smart one on this show, along with Betty. But they are both making some questionable (to say the least) choices right now. 

The pace they're going at, I don't think there is any way they can make this Black Hood drama go all season, which I really like, yet also fear what they have planned. Though this season alone, they've already covered murder, drugs, sexual assault, and gang initiation. Maybe, just maybe the last half of the season will have these kids being happy and normal teens who find light at the end of this dark-ass tunnel. and come through it stronger and ready to meet their full potential together as best friends/lovers forever! (Or with this show, maybe not...)

YES, the Bughead reconciliation if (hopefully when) it comes better be sweet, and it better be amazing, and they BETTER have a hot scene, even hotter than the one at the end of last season. Make it so, show! (Although they are leading up to possible Barchie naturally and nicely...which I don't like.)

Well...I've avoided work long enough for one morning. Time to get back to it. Lord knows I know the paychecks to keep affording the cable AND wine that help me watch Riverdale. 

I think  a toni and jug friendship is like what betty and archie are... good friends that have eachothers backs... it makes more sense... no offense to whoever but Toni, even if she's interested in jug, cannot compete with betty, sorry. She'll realise that pretty quickly. And since we know that toni is in fact a part of the gang, she'll fond her place....

Sigh, i watched the episode after a night shift so you can imagine i didnt get a lot of sleep after that (and neighbour chopping trees isnt helping, stupid chainsaw)... 

Yeah... what more drama can they add after so much stuff in 5 episodes.. a birth? Aliens? Teen pregnancy? Climate disaster? 

 

Hmmm... archie is sitting on a lot of information regarding jug and betty,  what is he going to do about it? He has the ability to reunite bughead... will the jealousy bug make an appearance and he'll try to keep her for himself? 

Last thing, using sign of the times? Really! That i would be expecting from a teeny show not riverdale (no offense, i love that song)... 

[Bruinsfan]

I lost it when Alice walked into that open house in a dress that looked like she had plans to curse someone with an enchanted slumber later in the evening. Betty should have laughed when the Black Hood threatened her mom and told him to bring holy water and silver bullets!

[WhosThatGirl]

For me, Lili and Cole have the best chemistry out of anyone in this cast, and since Bughead has already been a thing and I’ve seen it, anyone else paired with with one of them is always going to pale in comparison and therefore I’m just not going to enjoy it. I’m sorry but that’s just how I feel.

I think vanessa is fine but she can’t match Lili and Cole. And as I’ve said I really wanted to like the character of Toni because I didn’t want to dislike her because I adore Bughead but the way they seem to be going in the direction of her character is so typical and cliche it hurts.  So.. jury’s out it.

[truthaboutluv]

11 minutes ago, PeekaBoo said:

I think  a toni and jug friendship is like what betty and archie are... good friends that have eachothers backs..

Except Betty and Archie have known each other their whole lives. Didn't Jughead meet this girl like a week ago or whatever the hell this show's timeline is? And the friendship would be great if the writers didn't go full speed ahead with clearly making her a romantic interloper in his relationship with Betty, right down to a kiss mere seconds after his and Betty's relationship was over. 

 

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Yes, I'm responding to my own message! I just want to say that while I'm Team Bughead ALL THE WAY, Cole and Vanessa do have a nice chemistry, and I want a Bughead reconciliation bad, but I do hope that Jughead and Toni can become good friends. Maybe even Betty and Toni.

Again, great sentiment but maybe would be more realistic if the writers hadn't gone ahead, hitting every cliche they could with making her a romantic threat to Jughead and Betty's relationship, including having her make catty and snide comments about Betty. Because you know, as women, that's what we do.

ETA: I'm not surprised the writers went there with Betty and Jughead because the minute the pairing got as popular as they did last season, it solidified that they would become THAT couple, i.e. the couple that constantly gets crap thrown at them, misunderstandings, breakups, etc. all to sell the great soulmate, love story of the pairing except all it does is annoy the viewers, shippers and non-shippers alike.

So of course Betty was going to be forced to break up with Jughead for some contrived reason that will send him running to the new girl who is part of his new and dangerous world which will only have Betty running to Archie or whatever. You knew it was coming. Again, I just think their fans might have been a little less bitter if the writers hadn't acted like they're on speed and race to it by Episode 5 of the season, all while there's been little payoff in their relationship. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by truthaboutluv