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S09.E06: Rosario's Quinceañera

Tara Ariano

By Tara Ariano
in Will & Grace [V]

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Gothish520

Gothish520

(edited)
1 hour ago, ButterQueen said:

My mom just passed away 2 weeks ago, and I barely made it through the show.  ??

It was very well done...even though I had to keep pausing the show several times.

Jack had me in stitches.

So sorry for your loss. My mom passed last year - shows like this always bring up the emotions.  

Edited by Gothish520
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Gothish520

Gothish520

10 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

This- exactly!  I loved Grace and Ben together! One of my FAVORITE scenes of the original run is that first "real" moment between Grace and Ben.  I wish I could find a video clip, but the dialogue will have to do.  It doesn't do the acting and the facial expressions and the chemistry between them justice though.   

I loved that scene! Such subtlety in both of their performances.

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WordsWordsWords

WordsWordsWords

1 hour ago, ButterQueen said:

My mom just passed away 2 weeks ago, and I barely made it through the show.  ??

 

I'm so very sorry for your loss. My own Mama passed many years ago, and shows like this stir up all that emotion all over again.  *hugs you from afar*

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WordsWordsWords

WordsWordsWords

2 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

 Also, her "te amo, mami" at the end. Was that supposed to be some hint that Karen's relationship with Rosario was more than employer/employee? 

I don't think so. I could be wrong, of course, but I think it was just her way of showing the depth of their very complicated relationship.

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Tony

Tony

Not much laughs in this episode for me. The topic was too somber. Rosario was one of my favorite characters.

Too bad they couldn't get Shelly Morrison to un-retire and make a couple of cameos.

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Snow Apple

Snow Apple

(edited)

I cried too. I agree episodes like this bring out the emotions if you've lost a loved one, especially if it's recent. Sad to see there are a few of us here in this situation.

On a lighter note, I'm plotting for an opportunity to say "I heard as soon as I came." Thank goodness for Lorraine's comic relief. I hope she comes back for another episode.

Edited by Snow Apple
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seacliffsal

seacliffsal

Like others, I, too, had tears in my eyes.  Well done.  Special kudos to Megan and Eric.

As to what seems a bit off about Grace/Debra Messing.  I'm thinking it's that she is acting too immature for her new age (i.e. not as young as in the original run).  It's as if she has learned nothing in the intervening years.  Even Jack has matured a bit.  The same responses and reactions that made sense when the character was in her thirties don't seem as appropriate when she's in her forties, nearing her fifties.  

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

Quote

I can't believe how versatile Eric McCormack is between this and Levarge. 

Do you mean Perception? Eric wasn't on Leverage.

He's definitely versatile, though. I love him in this and on Perception. And if you've not ever seen him on a show called Dead Like Me, he was eeeeeevil on that one. I had to avoid Will & Grace reruns for a long while after seeing him behave so horribly on that. I didn't want to think of him in that way or tie that to Will in any way. 

Anyway, his scene with Karen was perfection. And I unexpectedly laughed out loud when Jack started to talk about how he and Rosario had been "thinking about having children," and Will immediately cleared his throat and subtly shook his head at him.

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

Quote

Also, her "te amo, mami" at the end. Was that supposed to be some hint that Karen's relationship with Rosario was more than employer/employee? 

They've always had an unusual, dysfunctional relationship. They would snark at one another and bicker incessantly (and I will really miss that running joke), they would take bubble baths together... at different points Karen treated Rosario like a maid, a mother, a daughter, and a friend.

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

18 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

My mom just passed away 2 weeks ago, and I barely made it through the show.  ??

It was very well done...even though I had to keep pausing the show several times.

Jack had me in stitches.

My condolences.  It will be a year in January since I lost my own mother, but it's still as fresh a loss to me as it was then.

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PBSLover

PBSLover

On 11/3/2017 at 9:39 AM, VioletMarx said:

I remember in the original run Debra literally stopped being funny when she got pregnant. It's like that kid sucked all the funny out of her.  She was never the same Grace after that. No idea why but for me that is the exact moment she changed.

Oh Honey, you couldn’t be more right.  I have watched the original show over and over and over and it’s like something clicked in her. Maybe Debra is not comfortable on screen with weight on her.  Who knows?  But her comedic timing just left her once she became pregnant (in real life which was also featured on the show).

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Blissfool

Blissfool

On 11/3/2017 at 9:15 PM, SmithW6079 said:

When she wordlessly grasps Will's arm when he goes to move away -- that was powerful. Also, her "te amo, mami" at the end. Was that supposed to be some hint that Karen's relationship with Rosario was more than employer/employee? 

I think it was just said to show that Karen saw Rosario as a mother figure .

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Gothish520

Gothish520

15 hours ago, PBSLover said:

Oh Honey, you couldn’t be more right.  I have watched the original show over and over and over and it’s like something clicked in her. Maybe Debra is not comfortable on screen with weight on her.  Who knows?  But her comedic timing just left her once she became pregnant (in real life which was also featured on the show).

It's been forever since I've seen the later episodes. I'm rewatching - I will keep an eye out for that change. 

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film noire

film noire

(edited)
On 11/3/2017 at 9:34 PM, MaryMitch said:

 I think she's fantastic as Grace!

Me, too -- she felt a little stiff earlier on, but this episode was classic Grace for me. (Especially that ridiculous, wonderful "I wanted pretty hair" monologue -- the pseudo innocence, the affected voice, the obsessive circular emotions centered only on herself --  old school Grace and I loved it). 

{{Butter Queen}}

Edited by film noire
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LAFR

LAFR

I'd be willing to bet that the holiday clip show episode is going to be Grace going through the holidays for the first time with out her mom and they will only use clips of Debbie Reynolds and that's how they will memorialize her.

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SanDiegoInExile

SanDiegoInExile

3 hours ago, LAFR said:

I'd be willing to bet that the holiday clip show episode is going to be Grace going through the holidays for the first time with out her mom and they will only use clips of Debbie Reynolds and that's how they will memorialize her.

Clip Show?

I hadn't seen any mention that the holiday episode was going to be a compilation.  Of what?  The old series?  That would be a huge waste of a post-Voice timeslot.  I can imagine a momentary clip of Bobbi Adler, but a whole episode.  No No No.

I was sorta expecting that the holiday episode would be Will-centric, with the fabulous Blythe Danner (and maybe some allusions to ex- Vince). 

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LAFR

LAFR

15 hours ago, SanDiegoInExile said:

Clip Show?

I hadn't seen any mention that the holiday episode was going to be a compilation.  Of what?  The old series?  That would be a huge waste of a post-Voice timeslot.  I can imagine a momentary clip of Bobbi Adler, but a whole episode.  No No No.

I was sorta expecting that the holiday episode would be Will-centric, with the fabulous Blythe Danner (and maybe some allusions to ex- Vince). 

My clip show comment was to the podcast on the episode where they discuss the possibility of a clip show.

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JBC344

JBC344

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 4:47 PM, ari333 said:

"I heard as soon as I came." That is all

This was hands down the line of the night for me.  Perfectly stated.  I love Minnie Driver in this role. 

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Duke2801

Duke2801

On 11/4/2017 at 7:54 PM, PBSLover said:

Oh Honey, you couldn’t be more right.  I have watched the original show over and over and over and it’s like something clicked in her. Maybe Debra is not comfortable on screen with weight on her.  Who knows?  But her comedic timing just left her once she became pregnant (in real life which was also featured on the show).

That could be it.  The thing is: she is NOT a big woman at ALL.  In real life she is probably a size 8 - maaaaybe a 10 at the most.  But I was watching some of the earlier episodes recently and damn, she was teeny-tiny back then.  Like 0-2 at the most.  So, yes, perhaps she doesn't feel like "Grace" if she's rail-thin?   

As an aside,  I had almost forgotten how damn hilarious this show used to be.  I am enjoying the reboot, but yeah, it's no match for the early episodes.  I almost peed myself howling at Jack doing the N'Sync dance to "Dirty Pop" in Crouching Father, Hidden Husband and Will's "Hosey Bosey ho" in Prison Blues.  So many hysterical moments.  

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Zazoo

Zazoo

Re the podcast, I don't think it's so weird that they did the funeral episode for Rosario, who was a much more important character than Bobbi (regardless of the status of the actresses). But I agree that this was a terrible episode, and that Grace is being written horribly- like the writers have no idea what she'd be like with a few more years on her. I didn't think it was so strange that Will would be the one to comfort Karen- he's the adult in the room and that's probably what she needed (it was basically a quiet moment and human contact from a friend-nothing deeply personal), but Jack and Grace didn't need to be so inept to make that happen.

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Miss Dee

Miss Dee

(edited)

Grace right now is a harder role to play than any of the others, so I don't envy Debra Messing. I agree the problem is the writers' concept of Grace in her 40s. What is endearingly childlike or neurotic in your 20s just becomes pathetic in your 40s. Will always had a tad more maturity than the other 3 and Karen and Jack were more cartoons than real characters, which is why these three are less affected by the time jump.

The writers need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a realistic version of Grace in her 40s - stop I Love Lucy-ing her and think how you can re-envision her as a woman starting over again with some disappointments behind her. Turn a bug into a feature and have her examine why she's reverting back into old habits around Will and how she can balance her need for their friendship with the growth and maturity she needs at this stage in her life.

Edited by Miss Dee
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janie jones

janie jones

On 11/12/2017 at 11:56 AM, Lava VaVoom said:

"Mami" is a term of endearment.  It doesn't mean mommy.

Karen calls everyone "honey" or "sweetie."  She was just doing it in Spanish this time.  I don't know that we can assume this choice of words means anything about their relationship other than that Karen cares.

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Aussie Grrrl

Aussie Grrrl

On 14/11/2017 at 7:46 AM, Miss Dee said:

Grace right now is a harder role to play than any of the others, so I don't envy Debra Messing. I agree the problem is the writers' concept of Grace in her 40s. What is endearingly childlike or neurotic in your 20s just becomes pathetic in your 40s. Will always had a tad more maturity than the other 3 and Karen and Jack were more cartoons than real characters, which is why these three are less affected by the time jump.

The writers need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a realistic version of Grace in her 40s - stop I Love Lucy-ing her and think how you can re-envision her as a woman starting over again with some disappointments behind her. Turn a bug into a feature and have her examine why she's reverting back into old habits around Will and how she can balance her need for their friendship with the growth and maturity she needs at this stage in her life.

I think they should watch a few episodes of Smash. Debra Messing was fantastic in this at it wasn't far off a Will & Grace scenario where her partner was a gay guy.. This is what a mature Grace could be like. Balance it more with humor

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mamadrama

mamadrama

On 11/12/2017 at 6:28 PM, Blissfool said:

Mami is mommy in spanish, which i suspect is Rosario's first language.

In the past decade or so, it's also become a term of endearment that's used to signify a loved one, regardless of maternal status. My Spanish-speaking friends use "Mami" to refer to their best girlfriends and "Papi" for their male friends. 

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