S03.E04: Josh's Ex-Girlfriend Is Crazy

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Rebecca takes her quest for revenge to the next level as her friends unite to try and help her.

Promo:

[Eeksquire]

OH MY GOD. I may have screamed when Greg's DAD showed up.  Greg's.DAD.

And the REAL Josh Groban! And Nathaniel with his alligator!

They really didn't pull any punches with how terrible the situation was and yet... it still managed to be funny?

This is definitely my favorite episode of the season, and may actually be my favorite episode of the series to date.

ETA: I actually teared up at Daryl and WhiJo in bed.  Like, tears.  I mean, it's been a bad week, but I love them so much, they cannot break up, it will be unbearably sad.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Eeksquire

[Spartan Girl]

Rebecca went full-blown crazy tonight. She didn't just dive off the deep end, she freaking cannon balled. And oh yeah, SHE SLEPT WITH GREG'S DAD?!

Her ripping into her friends was awful. But as cruel as she was, she was also kinda right, especially about Paula living vicariously through her while neglecting her own kids.

"Hold me, silky arms!" LOL.

The reaction to Greg's butt dial was heartbreaking.

And while Josh was in the right, I still think he doesn't get to absolve himself from all his actions. He still owed her some kind of apology for jilting her...you know, before she went all "Swim-Chan" on him.

I loved the Josh Groban song at the end, and I don't even like Josh Groban.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[Caseysgirl]

Even though I saw Josh Groban's name in the credits, I was still pleasantly surprised to see him. 

[DearEvette]

This went really dark but holy hell it was funny.

Heather and Hector's entire conversation about his silky arms was excellent.  I don't think those two have shared any scenes really?

"You have the anger of a much taller woman."

I also loved the suspensful movie music as backdrop even during mundane conversations between everybody else.

Her Danish hostel buddy with the wonderful english "good job Danish school system!"  He was a great sounding board character.

Great episode.

[Rinaldo]

They sometimes say that in order to accept your need for help, you have to hit rock bottom, and sleeping with Greg's dad may have been it. (And yeah, it's bad, but not I'm not going to treat it as just unbearably horrifying: sitcom history is full of womanizing guys who gleefully realize that they've slept with both a mother and her daughter.)

Or maybe going back to living with her mother next week will turn out to be rock bottom. Time will tell.

Badly as she reacted, and she did, I really liked this episode. The presentation of the entire central section as Rebecca's Revenge Movie was both effective and ingenious, capped off by ideal use of Josh Groban.

And it was touching to have it confirmed that Rebecca remembers Greg, and realistic to see her grasping at that connection as one of her few remaining chances (she wouldn't feel so low if he were still around), and now she messed that up. (I knew something interesting was up when I saw Robin Thomas's name in the guest credits.)

Edited November 4, 2017 by Rinaldo

[Irlandesa]

Usually I'm pretty good at guessing where this is going.  And I felt sad when I thought that they perhaps wanted Greg to show up, even as a ghost, but had to use his dad as a stand in.  But then....

Well, I think I screamed "noooo" out loud and realized that no, he was her rock bottom. 

I did love the motif of the episode and how they dug deep.

Hector cracked me up when he was talking about staging an intervention for his Intervention watching uncle who then got hooked on Hoarders and won't delete voice mails. 

37 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

ETA: I actually teared up at Daryl and WhiJo in bed.  Like, tears.  I mean, it's been a bad week, but I love them so much, they cannot break up, it will be unbearably sad.

I know.  And I don't know why they keep dropping this story a bit here and a bit there.

[dubbel zout]

What a brutal episode. I couldn't help laughing at Rebecca dressed as a tree outside the Chan house, trying to gaslight Josh.

29 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

And while Josh was in the right, I still think he doesn't get to absolve himself from all his actions. He still owed her some kind of apology for jilting her...you know, before she went all "Swim-Chan" on him.

I think he still owes her an apology for jilting her, even after going all "Swim-Chan" on him. Rebecca's behavior has been inexcusable in every way, and I don't know how she'll fix things. But that shouldn't let Josh off the hook. He's still responsible for his actions, and he needs to face that.

32 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

SHE SLEPT WITH GREG'S DAD?!

Greg's dad slept with Rebecca! Eesh. 

LOL at Josh Groban. He has a very good sense of humor. I needed that tiny bit of brightness after this episode. Oof, it was rough.

[Rinaldo]

8 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think he still owes her an apology for jilting her, even after going all "Swim-Chan" on him. Rebecca's behavior has been inexcusable in every way, and I don't know how she'll fix things. But that shouldn't let Josh off the hook. He's still responsible for his actions, and he needs to face that.

Yes, but I trust the show to know this, and to deal with it in due course. They've been good about recognizing that bad behavior by one person doesn't negate the bad behavior of the person they're reacting to. The two faults stand in separate columns and don't cancel each other out. At this moment Josh's attention is understandably elsewhere, but he's going to have to face it eventually -- there's clearly a wising-up journey ahead for him too, as we've been seeing.

Really beautiful direction of this episode, by the way, by Joseph Kahn, who has done a ton of music videos and directed this season's theme song (which we didn't see tonight, of course).

[DianeDobbler]

Oh, definitely Josh will have to deal with his shit. The fact that he was right in calling off his wedding to Rebecca doesn't excuse him deserting her instead of talking to her, and the fact that she reacted as she did and probably would have reacted the same way if he had handled it like a mature adult also doesn't excuse him. I think the show knows this. I also think the show constantly has Josh distracted, because for some reason Josh's "evolution" is on a slower track than even Rebecca's, although we can still see some basic decency, as when he yanked her back from falling in that hole.

Now I'm gonna say this knowing MMV, but I always hated Santino Fontana's acting on this show, and whenever the actor who played his dad was on, I was always, there, THAT's the guy. That's how you do that character (the old version, the way Rebecca called him "Old Greg.") I bought the whole thing in 2 seconds, the dad knew Rebecca's deal, but when there was even a tiny opening, he jumped right in. That is really low.

I enjoyed this episode. It got really dark without feeling forced, it was earned, as they say. I have no idea what's next, although I think Rebecca spending time with Naomi makes complete sense. Naomi going to say a lot of wrong things but in the end do a little bit of good. I hope.

[SeanC]

I laughed when Valencia and Heather admitted that Paula tends to ignore her actual children (which, granted, it could have been that that’s just part of her life the viewers don’t see, but that was already the impression one would get from watching the show).

Swimfan has had greater reference longevity than one might have suspected at the time of its premiere.

Regarding the Darryl/White Josh baby dispute:  I mean, I get that it's obviously a difference of opinions, but Darryl already has a kid, so it's not like his paternal instinct is being permanently thwarted here if he doesn't have another kid with his new partner.  That doesn't seem like it should be an insurmountable issue.

[Rinaldo]

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Regarding the Darryl/White Josh baby dispute:  I mean, I get that it's obviously a difference of opinions, but Darryl already has a kid, so it's not like his paternal instinct is being permanently thwarted here if he doesn't have another kid with his new partner.  That doesn't seem like it should be an insurmountable issue.

Sure. So we may hope that eventually WhiJo gently gets this through to him.

[bettername2come]

Josh Groban is officially my favorite Josh. I will be downloading that song.

 

However, Josh Chan scored some points with me for the concern for his mom and not letting Rebecca fall even when she's been trying to freak him out.

[possibilities]

Paula putting trackers in Rebecca and Valencia was really over the line, well past shenanigans and way far into crazytown. If I was Valencia, I'd be extremely freaked out about that revelation.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Regarding the Darryl/White Josh baby dispute:  I mean, I get that it's obviously a difference of opinions, but Darryl already has a kid, so it's not like his paternal instinct is being permanently thwarted here if he doesn't have another kid with his new partner.  That doesn't seem like it should be an insurmountable issue.

I understand people wanting more children but with Darryl, it really only came up because White Josh didn't jump over marriage.  I think it's more about the commitment more than it is about the child. So maybe that's the compromise. 

Just now, possibilities said:

Paula putting trackers in Rebecca and Valencia was really over the line, well past shenanigans and way far into crazytown. If I was Valencia, I'd be extremely freaked out about that revelation.

Yeah.  Isn't this brand new information?

Valencia looked gorgeous in this ep, I thought.

[Snarklepuss]

Yeah, I came here just to say how beautiful Valencia looked in this episode.  I also like the way the women relate to each other on this show.  They really are all friends and I'm glad they're continuing to be featured together.  I was just thinking "what happened to Valencia?" when there she was in this episode.

I know this is small consolation, but at least Rebecca wasn't really trying to hurt Josh, just scare him and get his attention.  I'm hoping that means the fears that she would go down that road are unfounded no matter how ominous her antics may look.

[Roccos Brother]

Wow, this show was so fun and light-hearted, and now it just became really dark and heavy really fast. The pacing has been accelerated so much this season, I feel there hasn't been enough time given to focus on the other characters' plotlines as much.

I just wanted to say - as someone who has done a bit of backpacking and stayed in my fair share of youth hostels - I absolutely adored Jarl, his Danish accent, enthusiasm for Hollywood, and overall innocence/naivete. I also thought the interaction between Lourdes and Rebecca was adorable -- although in a twisted, creepy sort of way... O_o

[Corgi-ears]

Heather is so totally ending up on Hector (and Hector's mom's) podcast, if you know what I mean, and I think we all do.

Josh's dad better watch out.

[doesntworkonwood]

I think that this was a really good episode. 

Whilst I don't think that Rebecca's actions were understandable, and they certainly weren't sane, I don't think that she would have gone as far as she did as fast as she did if Josh had just talked to her in the first place. 

That said, I think I'm more invested in Rebecca continuing her crazy than her getting better. It makes for a more interesting show, because they've shown that they can treat the matter seriously whilst still finding humour in it. 

I loved the motif of the episode. I don't know who Josh Groben is, but I liked his song. 

[Whimsy]

I don’t pay attention to credits, so I had no idea Greg’s Dad was going to be on the episode. I literally screamed “nooooooo”when I saw what was happening. I was holding out hope that Greg would come back at some point, but the information that he fell in love with someone else and now the fact that Rebecca had sex with his dad- it’s obvious that he’s never coming back becaus there’s no way they can be in a relationship after that. I’m legitimately sad. Although,  I still have a soft spot for Nathanial, but that’s strictly due to MSF’s charm , not the character. 

As I said above, I don’t watch credits so when Rebecca was walking down the street and a male was singing I think my thought process was something like this “Who is singing?  No, really, who is that? He’s really good and it’s not one of the regular actors” and then Josh Groban popped out. I literally lol’d. Count me as another who really appreciates his sense of humor. I can also appreciate his talent, even if his music is not my cuppa. 

I also was struck by how beautiful Valencia looked in this episode. She’s a stronger than I. I would’ve booked it out if there so fast after learning all that info, but I really like their relationships now and don’t want to lose the actress so I’m ok with her sort of brushing it off. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Daaaaaaaaamn, Rebecca went in on EVERYONE (except Nathaniel). That is the human version of what a trapped animal must look like. She was biting at anyone within arm's reach. The sad thing is that she is so paranoid that even when Paula gently told her that they don't hate her, she still lashed out at them. This was definitely a case of Rebecca not really hearing what they were saying. I get that it's a combination of her not being well and a fear of being hospitalized again, but girl.

I loved the credits on her faux movie. The song lyrics plus the visuals were a perfect sendup of those types of movies, but the credits really mad me laugh, particularly the Rihanna one.

Loved that even Josh Chan's dad knows what an idiot Josh is for quitting his job, asking for his job back, and thinking he can ask for a raise on his first day back at work. I don't even know what to say about Josh's rhinestone boob phone. While I understand him being upset now that he knows the extent of what Rebecca has been doing over the past year or so (as well as the past with Robert), that still doesn't excuse HIS decisions. When Rebecca was standing right there in front of him at the carnival, he could have just said, "I'm sorry that I left you at the altar. That was a shitty thing to do and I know that it hurt you a lot. I can never trust you again and I don't want you to be part of my life, but I know that I shouldn't have called off our wedding in a note and then run away to avoid you."

Great advice from Josh Groban - never sleep with your ex-boyfriend's dad! I was never a fan of his music, but his appearances here and on Glee where he poked fun at himself were great. That street with all the trees reminded me of the pilot for My So-Called Life.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode

 

Scary Scary Sexy Lady:

 

The End of the Movie:

[Glory]

Did anyone notice the oxygen tank image in the Scary Sexy Lady video?! Foreshadowing!

[DianeDobbler]

I think Rebecca was obviously terrified, so she went for the jugular with all of her friends - yep, trapped animal. The horrible part is all of her barbs really hit home, except, I think, for Valencia. Valencia wanted to marry ONE guy and it didn't work out. She hasn't been husband hunting or in a series of relationships where the guys bolt when the M word comes up. And about Valencia, the writers tend to default to a muted mean girl persona for her too often, IMO. I know that was who she was, but I think she was more interesting when there was more energy in the writing for her, such as when she and Rebecca went to the burning man thing and when they stalked Anna.

White Josh and Darryl's conflict is one of the weak parts of the show. You can't have happy relationships, so they need something, but Darryl wanting a baby and White Josh not is kind of feeble. It might make more sense if White Josh wanted one and Darryl was like - dude, I'm middle aged, I have a kid, I don't want to do that again.

Josh came off ok in this episode, but too much of the writing, IMO, rests on the old trope of not letting two people have a conversation. When Rebecca confronted him in the church, she unloaded. She wanted her catharsis, so she did all the talking. And by the time she and Josh were in the same space in this episode, she had stalked and terrified him, and threatened his mother, so he wasn't going to listen to her.

I am very very curious as to what her diagnosis is going to be. Her trapped animal attack seemed a bit like what I've read about borderline personalities, but I think she is too kind and too generous of heart to be borderline. She can let her friends down, such as the time she didn't get Paula's recommendation in on time, and she can be manipulative, but I don't think manipulation is her default. It's what she does to get from point A to point B - it's much more on the surface for her, not her default.

I wonder why Josh Chan never talks about career with Father Brah. Talking to him about finding direction seems like a good idea. And I wonder why Josh isn't bothered by sort of drifting through life (his address showed he was on Driftwood Street), since he comes from a high achieving family.

[Empress1]

13 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

What a brutal episode. I couldn't help laughing at Rebecca dressed as a tree outside the Chan house, trying to gaslight Josh.

I fell out. I also fell out at the credits over the Josh Groban video, and at the video itself.

4 minutes ago, DianeDobbler said:

I think Rebecca was obviously terrified, so she went for the jugular with all of her friends - yep, trapped animal. The horrible part is all of her barbs really hit home, except, I think, for Valencia. Valencia wanted to marry ONE guy and it didn't work out. She hasn't been husband hunting or in a series of relationships where the guys bolt when the M word comes up. And about Valencia, the writers tend to default to a muted mean girl persona for her too often, IMO. I know that was who she was, but I think she was more interesting when there was more energy in the writing for her, such as when she and Rebecca went to the burning man thing and when they stalked Anna.

White Josh and Darryl's conflict is one of the weak parts of the show. You can't have happy relationships, so they need something, but Darryl wanting a baby and White Josh not is kind of feeble. It might make more sense if White Josh wanted one and Darryl was like - dude, I'm middle aged, I have a kid, I don't want to do that again.

Josh came off ok in this episode, but too much of the writing, IMO, rests on the old trope of not letting two people have a conversation. When Rebecca confronted him in the church, she unloaded. She wanted her catharsis, so she did all the talking. And by the time she and Josh were in the same space in this episode, she had stalked and terrified him, and threatened his mother, so he wasn't going to listen to her.

I am very very curious as to what her diagnosis is going to be. Her trapped animal attack seemed a bit like what I've read about borderline personalities, but I think she is too kind and too generous of heart to be borderline. She can let her friends down, such as the time she didn't get Paula's recommendation in on time, and she can be manipulative, but I don't think manipulation is her default. It's what she does to get from point A to point B - it's much more on the surface for her, not her default.

I wonder why Josh Chan never talks about career with Father Brah. Talking to him about finding direction seems like a good idea. And I wonder why Josh isn't bothered by sort of drifting through life (his address showed he was on Driftwood Street), since he comes from a high achieving family.

I think Josh is on a "get focused and get your shit together" journey. His life has been fairly aimless and he hasn't been able to commit to anything, but there are glimpses that he's starting to recognize that, and maybe that he wants more but doesn't know what, or how to get there. 

I agree about Valencia. She wanted to marry Josh (understandable given how long they were together) and it didn't work out, but she's been single since (which I think is wise) and she hasn't expressed much of a desire to get married. Wedding planning is a good career choice for her given her personality (although does she still have a yoga studio?), but she doesn't seem particularly wedding-focused for herself. Valencia appears to be doing fine to me.

Rebecca and Greg's dad just ... grossed me out. Not because Greg's dad is gross to look at, but dude, like Josh Groban says, don't bang your ex-boyfriend's dad. Parents, don't bang your kids' exes. Do better, everybody!

[AnnaRose]

8 minutes ago, DianeDobbler said:

I am very very curious as to what her diagnosis is going to be. Her trapped animal attack seemed a bit like what I've read about borderline personalities, but I think she is too kind and too generous of heart to be borderline. She can let her friends down, such as the time she didn't get Paula's recommendation in on time, and she can be manipulative, but I don't think manipulation is her default. It's what she does to get from point A to point B - it's much more on the surface for her, not her default.

What is the 'disorder' for someone who is super selfish and who doesn't care who she hurts to get what she wants?  I think that's the core problem with Rebecca.  She lies and stalks and manipulates in an effort to get what she wants, and her anxiety increases as it becomes more and more difficult to not get caught and found out.  Her lies and bad behavior become this tenuous, fragile house of cards that is constantly in danger of collapse.   I think her extreme self-centeredness is the heart of who she is and the reason for her problems.

[OoogleEyes]

Priest's school. Preschool?   No *Priest's school* will never not make me chuckle. 

(Wait..double negative?  It does make me chuckle or it doesn't. *running back to the nuns who taught me grammar in the first place*)

[Rinaldo]

Yes, that's a correctly used double negative. Not a thing wrong with it.

[alrightokay]

YAAAS at Hector/Heather.  Go Heather, you GO get Hector and his "sweet, sweet ass."

5 minutes ago, AnnaRose said:

What is the 'disorder' for someone who is super selfish and who doesn't care who she hurts to get what she wants?  I think that's the core problem with Rebecca.  She lies and stalks and manipulates in an effort to get what she wants, and her anxiety increases as it becomes more and more difficult to not get caught and found out.  Her lies and bad behavior become this tenuous, fragile house of cards that is constantly in danger of collapse.   I think her extreme self-centeredness is the heart of who she is and the reason for her problems.

YES.  I've always admired Rachel Bloom for being fearless in making Rebecca so unlikable; but wow, the way Rebecca spoke to her friends in the beginning makes me wonder--what do they see in her?  Seriously, when has she ever been a good friend to them?  People have always been there for her, and I know the show is focused on her, but as wonderful as it is to see Paula, Valencia, Heather, and Darryl love her for who she is, I have to ask: apart from the excitement she brings to their life (especially Paula's), what has she done to reciprocate their love for her?  I know she's really smart, funny, energetic, creative, etc.--but all of those strengths have been directed at winning Josh, claiming Josh, and now avenging herself against Josh.  Again, I admire Bloom for making it clear how damaged and desperate Rebecca is; I can understand intellectually why she's lashing out at her friends, but emotionally, I've always wondered why these people are sticking with such a single-minded friend, coworker, and employee.  What she said about each of her friends was true, and her words have gotten them to do some good soul-searching, but I think the show has "rushed" those moments where we were supposed to see her being a good person who would inspire so much loyalty (LOL, now I'm remembering "I'm a Good Person").  I think that as a viewer, I root for Rachel more than for Rebecca--I can see how Rachel Bloom inspires dedication and loyalty.  Her and Aline Brosh McKenna's vision as writers and show runners is truly impressive--there's a joy and wisdom in their work that ultimately makes me care about this show more than I care for Rebecca.

Case in point: the song Josh Groban sings at the end is just brilliant: it's delightful and devastating, and it's true.  Life "doesn't make narrative sense"--it's messy and hard, and in the end, we won't know if it had any meaning.  What the show (and really, Rachel/Aline) seems to be saying is that it's important to create stuff (music, dances, jokes, music videos) to make life bearable.  That act of creating will allow you to connect with others, not just your audience, but those you collaborate with.  So instead of seeing her own life as a story/fairytale/movie, Rebecca needs to create something outside of herself (outside of her head) that will speak to and for others, not just to her own obsessions.  I think the last time we saw her do this (and the last time she was truly happy) was when she won that water case against the city (I might not be remembering the details right).  I'm not saying the show needs to end in a sentimental/touchy-feely way where Rebecca "earns" her happiness and is magically healed by saving others--it's a little more nuanced than that ;) -- but I have a feeling this show about mental illness, gender issues, diversity issues, and love in all its forms (romantic, family, friends, community) is also about the way art empowers us to work through all these issues, and not just "high art" but "low art" as well (how many poop jokes has this show made?).   

Other moments i loved (besides the Heather/Hector hook-up!):

Jarl!  Don't we all need a Danish tourist to listen to our problems and share in our love of revenge movies? 

Penny and George--hope they got the lava cake delivered!

Nathaniel and his alligator--I know the show has really accelerated the changes in his character, but I love him and hope that now that the sex is out of the way (they've done it TWICE, as he proudly announced), he and Rebecca will really get to know each other and ultimately help each other.

[sacrebleu]

Man, this show never fails to surprise me. Just when I thought Rebecca would fall in that carny pit, as a literal smack upside the head, they have Josh pull her back from the brink.

 

Then the camera pulls back and we see the "butter can't help you now" sign. 

I love how this show constantly drops these little callbacks.

[PokerNerd]

When Valencia and Heather confirmed Paula's inattentive parenting, I realized they could completely recast her two sons and I wouldn't notice. And since you're distracted now, can I get a tattoo blueprint of the local prison on my arm?

Quote

 

[AllAboutMBTV]

Where — WHERE? — is Dr. Akopian?? (Either of them.) Rebecca, please get the help you so desperately need. I must have said that out loud to my TV at least three times during this episode. (Seeing her mother is NOT going to help, although seeing Rabbi LuPone might.) I was so squicked out by her behavior I immediately deleted the episode from my DVR when it was over. And because I always watch every episode of this show twice, now I’m going have to watch it on OnDemand and sit through commercials. Curse me!

Yes, a very clever and funny episode — kudos to everyone — but Rebecca’s spiraling self-centeredness is making CEG nearly unbearable to watch. 

[Roccos Brother]

1 hour ago, sacrebleu said:

Then the camera pulls back and we see the "butter can't help you now" sign. 

I love how this show constantly drops these little callbacks.

Oh wow, I totally didn't even notice this until you pointed it out. Good catch! Interestingly enough, I'm always thinking back to the butter motif, wondering when it will get used again and voila! There it is!

[Glory]

Okay, I kind of had to digest this episode a bit. A LOT happened. 

We got near the end of the episode and I started to realize we'd only had the one song and got concerned that maybe they were trying to show us that the music videos in Rebecca's head had a limitation when out of nowhere comes Josh Groban. That was fucking perfect. The entire song was amazing and the AV Club did a great write-up of this episode.  

I'm not sure I believe Nathaniel pining for Rebecca. I think it would have made a lot more sense for him to be like, "I need to step back from this crazy" in a similar response to Greg's after the Trent revelation. Though I do love the Nathaniel/George relationship. 

Speaking of Greg, his FUCKING DAD?! YOU SLEPT WITH HIS DAD?! I also yelled at the TV when it happened. Pretty sure it was something like, "THIS FUCKING SHOW ARE YOU SERIOUS?" 

That seals it to me that Greg is 100% off the table as a potential end game love interest. How do you get with someone who banged your dad? You don't. 

[AnnaRose]

1 hour ago, AllAboutMBTV said:

...I was so squicked out by her behavior I immediately deleted the episode from my DVR when it was over. And because I always watch every episode of this show twice, now I’m going have to watch it on OnDemand and sit through commercials. Curse me!

Yes, a very clever and funny episode — kudos to everyone — but Rebecca’s spiraling self-centeredness is making CEG nearly unbearable to watch. 

I know what you mean.  I watched part of the first scene and had to turn it off and go do something else.  I wasn't sure if I would even go back and watch the rest.  I did eventually force myself to watch the recording eventually... but so much of it was pretty unbearable. 

The only parts I particularly liked were Hector talking about his uncle's intervention, his conversation with Heather/Velma, and Josh Groban.

Edited to Add:  And Jarl!   How could I forget him?  He was great!

Edited November 4, 2017 by AnnaRose

[srpturtle80]

3 hours ago, OoogleEyes said:

Priest's school. Preschool?   No *Priest's school* will never not make me chuckle.

Agreed. I giggle every time they bust that joke out.

The first five minutes of that episode was some of the most uncomfortable television I have ever watched. The amount of second hand embarrassment I felt for a fictional character was extraordinary. Which I guess means they did their job, but man, that was painful to watch.

I thought it was sweet (though maybe slightly out of character, as mentioned above) of Nathanial to stay at Rebecca's house and wait for her return. I would have expected him to run right out of there when he read about her past. I wasn't sold on him at first but now I am starting to really like him.

And finally, I adore Josh Groban and thought his appearance and song were perfection.

[chaifan]

Wow.  How do they return to the funny after this episode?  So dark.  And I was thinking all this even before Rebecca slept with Greg's dad.  I could have done without that.

I really thought the last song was being sung by Greg.  He and Josh Grobin have a similar voice.  Loved the song.  Really wrapped up the episode and Rebecca's downward spiral very nicely.

[huahaha]

Oof. I've been enjoying this season, but this episode got way too dark and ugly. 

Rebecca sleeping with Greg's dad didn't feel in character at all. The writers obviously picked borderline personality disorder for Rebecca's illness and are now retconning it a bit with the Robert backstory as well. 

If the show wants to take mental illness seriously, that's great, but it's not super funny. I don't think Friends and Seinfeld would be considered the classics they are if everyone's antics got a diagnosis. What next, Valencia has Paula imprisoned for the GPS tracker? That's what would happen in real life, and there wouldn't be anything funny about it.

[DianeDobbler]

AnnaRose, what you're describing - the selfish behavior that comes in a charm and excitement package, with other superficially appealing characteristics - says borderline to me. I just don't want it to be that because I've been told by social workers and psychologists that it's the hardest thing in the world to treat. Only something like DBT  - Dialectical Behavior Therapy - which is all about giving the person tools to manage their behavior and regulate their emotions, and not so much inquiry into childhood and adulthood - has any effect. 

I absolutely totally believed she slept w/Greg's dad.  It was horrifying, but it's because I bought it that it was horrifying. I don't think Greg ever was to her what he wanted to be to her, although she did count on his being hung up on her whenever she needed someone like that and she was losing in other facets of her life.

I do think Rebecca has been good to her friends, although it's hard to unwind her good behavior from her self-serving behavior. I think going to the burning man thingie was good for Valencia, and all the validation Rebecca gives her friends is good for them. She reacts to them as them, not in socio-economic categories, so she makes them see their own potential. She was very supportive to Josh. Yes, she wanted him to love her, but she believed those things about him. Even in Jap Battle Rap, she tried to befriend Audra. Yes, some of it is so she could validate herself to herself, but I also think her basic decency is real. She sees good things in people. For example, when she and Valencia were researching Anna Hicks, it wasn't "Look at this basic blonde bitch doing eyebrows." It was, "look at this perfect angel with the perfect name whose career puts her in connection with every cool thing ever."

I don't care about the tracking devices. This show is heightened reality; it addresses real things but through a comic lens, so that's the context. They use farce to make their points. 

I bet Rebecca tips well. I think she is always ready to recognize the positive attributes in someone else whether it's their looks, their abilities or something about their personality. What I admire most about Rebecca Bunch is she's completely democratic. Look at her friends; look at her love interests. Of all the guys she's slept with, only Trent and Nathanial were remotely her professional and educational peers. She is one of those people who has to be herself - she feels smothered when she conforms - this is the career, this is what your apartment should look like, this is who you marry. Her best friend is a paralegal at the law firm where she's the highest performing attorney. Anyone can walk in her door and be her friend or be treated like a peer - a guy who makes vegan food, the Fedex dude, the underachieving slacker chick with a gazillion community college credits, the yoga teacher with bad credit, an underachieving bartender. I think she takes people as she finds them and sees value in what they have to offer, and there's been more than one time one of her friends has been a little incredulous that someone with Rebecca's credentials values what they have to say. She knows the worth of Harvard and Yale and wields those credentials when it's going to get her where she needs to go, but she doesn't judge people by their income, their education, their lifestyle. My favorite part of Rebecca is the Rebecca in pillow talk with Nathanial. He's telling her everything he's arranged to happen to Josh's family, and she's like "What? She just got on the Dean's list." and "Joseph? (Josh's dad)." and "Josh's Lolo? He loves him!" Rachel Bloom has said that being a lawyer is not a good fit for Rebecca, whereas it's a good fit for Paula (and we can see that Paula is really engaged by case work and research). Anyway, the way Rebecca talked about Josh's family, it played that they were people to her, it wasn't just Josh's dad, it was "Joseph" to her, and not just his grandpa, but "Lolo". People in their own right. That's the best part of her.

Edited November 4, 2017 by DianeDobbler

[Eeksquire]

Quote

I do think Rebecca has been good to her friends, although it's hard to unwind her good behavior from her self-serving behavior. I think going to the burning man thingie was good for Valencia, and all the validation Rebecca gives her friends is good for her. She was very supportive to Josh. Yes, she wanted him to love her, but she believed those things about him. Even in Jap Battle Rap, she tried to befriend Audra. Yes, some of it is so she could validate herself to herself, but I also think her basic decency is real.

I think the biggest example we've seen of Rebecca taking care of her friends was when she took care of Paula's son last season so Paula could go on the law school field trip.  In that instance, we saw her genuinely trying to do something selfless for Paula.  She even turned Josh away to continue to help Paula.  The other good things she's done have been mostly self-serving, but when her friends press her, she tends to just go along with it (for instance, Heather moving out of her parents' house and in with Rebecca - she was surprised, but went with it).

I'm looking forward to next week - it's an interesting direction to go in (and Audra Levine is back!), but I really, REALLY want Dr. Akopian back.

[DianeDobbler]

I bet we see Dr. Akopian when we get Rebecca's diagnosis, but not until then. And speaking of Paula's son, Rebecca dealt with him on an equal level. That's how she treats everybody.

[possibilities]

2 hours ago, srpturtle80 said:

I thought it was sweet (though maybe slightly out of character, as mentioned above) of Nathanial to stay at Rebecca's house and wait for her return. I would have expected him to run right out of there when he read about her past. I wasn't sold on him at first but now I am starting to really like him.

I assume he's as crazy as she is. Why else did the family send him to West Covina to prove himself? They're embarrassed by him, and it's not because he's too nice and lacking in ambition, because he isn't.

Heather and Josh are both unambitious and lacking direction, but with opposite personalities. It's kind of interesting. What does Hector do for money?

How did Trent get the records on Rebecca unsealed? I expect that issue will come back, especially if Rebecca calms down long enough to remember she's a lawyer.

I want to see more of Darryl and White Josh than their conflict. Why are they together, besides the sex? It would be easier to take their conflict seriously if the relationship itself was shown in scenes besides the ones where they're talking about being incompatible.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

I really thought the last song was being sung by Greg.  He and Josh Grobin have a similar voice.  Loved the song.  Really wrapped up the episode and Rebecca's downward spiral very nicely.

Ha.  I thought parts of it sounded like Greg but then other parts didn't sound like Greg/Santino so I knew it wasn't him but then I couldn't figure out who it was. I had forgotten about Groban's appearance.

3 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

BUT THAT SHE SLEPT WITH GREG'S DAD. And he wasn't even a fan of Rebecca to begin with. But this would also make a potential return for Greg much more interesting.

 

2 hours ago, huahaha said:

Rebecca sleeping with Greg's dad didn't feel in character at all. The writers obviously picked borderline personality disorder for Rebecca's illness and are now retconning it a bit with the Robert backstory as well.

The more I think of this, the more I'm wondering if it was in character for Greg's dad.  I can buy it from Rebecca but this is the man who sold his house and gave part of that money to Greg so he could pursue his dream of going to Emory.  Would he really sleep with Greg's ex?  The one he thought was crazy?

[JustaPerson]

I kind of disagree about Rebecca being Borderline. I can see why someone might think that, though. I don't see much ideation/devaluation in her relationships, except maybe with Josh but even that doesn't really apply. While Rebecca has issues with abandonment, I don't really see the type that Borderline people have. She's not trying to avoid abandonment (or her perception of abandonment) -- if last episode and this episode was any indication, she already believes she's been abandoned.

Edited November 5, 2017 by JustaPerson

[DianeDobbler]

Rebecca acts out sexually, is driven by a rollercoaster of emotions in her head, but she doesn't tend to externalize blame, which a lot of borderlines do. "You ruined everything, you stupid bitch" isn't something that would be sung by a borderline, in my understanding.  Maybe she's bipolar. She has a lot of mania, then crashes. And of course, depression.  She lashed out at her friends, but even though she was terribly mean, she wasn't blaming them for the state she was in, she was saying, you can't judge because you're no better. We've also seen signs of her drinking to medicate more than maybe the usual. In S1, when she woke up in the morning we saw a drained bottle of wine in her room on a work morning, and we've seen her sit back with a bottle a bunch of times.

Josh catches a lot of shit for lacking direction and drifting, but that has applied to numerous characters on Crazy Ex Girlfriend - Heather, Hector, Greg.  Rebecca has credentials that may shield her from appearing aimless - principally, her Ivy League degrees. But she's working in a small time law firm -if "working" is even the word for what she does. 

I agree that Nathanial has to be really messed up - in fact, Brosh McKenna has implied that he might be the most screwed up. He looks like one thing - the white ten that the world bends over backwards to accommodate - but here he is exiled to a dumpy law firm in a dumpy town and his father treated him like a loser. I get the feeling he was cast to fill the straight white guy love interest slot, but that they didn't decide on the best angle for the actor's talents until they wrote S3. I think where they landed is correct, and I think giving him George as his sidekick was brilliant. The angle they used, I think, was to make Nathanial's vulnerability and lack of status a bit more blatant, and for him to be more aware of it, than he was in S2, where he was supercilious and you only saw flashes of insecurity when the subject of his father came up. 

About Trent, I assume Trent bribed someone to get the files, he broke in the old fashioned way, or he did some sort of hack. He's a resourceful guy, rich, a genius in his own way, and not overly aware of boundaries.

Sure I think Greg's dad would sleep with Rebecca. Maybe not have a relationship, but with his son out of town, in love with someone else, doing well, and he, the dad, makes a connection with the messed up ex who was never a defined relationship for very long, but as far as an outsider could see, more a recurring fixation? Greg's dad, at least as the actor plays him, just reads former alcoholic or dry drunk or something. It's great he woke up enough to move forward and help his son move forward, but sure he'd do that.  I actually thought that plot twist was brilliant. It is the exactly right sort of OMG, rock bottom ick move that would happen to someone like Rebecca. She always has acted out sexually, and this dude was at least "safe" - he wasn't the same type of pick-up as a stranger. I thought the way they came into the room was very funny - the actor playing the dad is very good. But wasn't he buying into a retirement community with a swim-up pool where he could make time with all the other retirement babes? What room did he and Rebecca hook up in?

Edited November 5, 2017 by DianeDobbler

[possibilities]

I don't know where they hooked up, but they met in a bar. I was assuming that he was an active alcoholic, and that he was on his worst behavior as a result, possibly this was his own rock bottom as well.

[DianeDobbler]

If their hook-up weren't so obviously completely unpremeditated, I'd guess part of the reason he banged Rebecca was to protect his son. She had gone into stalker mode, since Greg had always been her failsafe. So the dad bangs her, and takes her out of the picture, just in case. Too bad it was really hard to read that in the scene. It was ugly, but also realistic. Rebecca has always acted injudiciously. She's always done some horrible shit. This was bad, but it was sort of wrong place, wrong time sort of bad, not inevitable. Just unfortunate proximity, personality and timing, and for that reason I believed it 100%. But it was also a plot. I'd be interested to see what rock bottom actually looked like if Greg's dad hadn't conveniently been in that bar.

Watched it again and the episode does have a kind of bipolar rhythm to it. Rebecca is driven, driven, driven, but then crashes at the end. 

Saying again I like the writing for Nathanial, that he's more accessible, more in need, more obviously messed up than he was last season.  This allows him to do things like hang out at Rebecca's apartment with George and "Penny" waiting up for her, it allows him to be unable to resist bragging that he and Rebecca had sex twice and therefore he thinks he knows her better than her friends do, and it very believeably, IMO, makes him one of the gang, because he's willingly showed them his vulnerabilities, something the character as drawn last season would not have done (willingly). In fact, the subtext, for me, is that is crush on Rebecca facilitates his bond with the others. He's enjoying being part of things.

Edited November 5, 2017 by DianeDobbler

[Trishelle]

Was anyone else expecting Rebecca's rock bottom to be more shocking and troubling?  After the serious stuff they revealed in the finale and the escalating intensity of this episode up to that point, I was bracing myself for something really upsetting.  Don't get me wrong; sleeping with your ex's dad is super ill-advised (and gross), but I'm kind of glad they didn't have her do something more self-destructive.  Or maybe that wasn't actually her Rock Bottom?  

Not sure if someone's already asked this, but: assuming Rebecca comes back to West Covina and tries to leave Josh alone for real this time, how do you think the writers'll keep Josh on the show?  If Rebecca's not stalking and/or dating him, it seems like it'd be hard to keep him involved in the central plot.  Or maybe he'll be a more peripheral character going forward?  Just someone who's there to listen to WhiJo and Hector's problems? Or maybe they'll make him go a little crazy and have his own story arc, even if it's basically isolated from Rebecca's?  What do y'all think?  

[theatremouse]

For me what was interesting was how honestly Rachel Bloom played it. This show is a musical and goes for some big magic wacky comedy sometimes but in this episode she played the conversations straight, the lashing out, all of it. The framing device of "this is all those movies" was the wackiness, but there was no hijinx-ensue to any of her tone in anything. This crazy is not planting trackers with Paula crazy. This was serious, person falling apart and I believed every moment of it. There was nothing cartoonish about it, even though the show does sometimes very intentionally go to cartoonish places. What I'm getting at is I found it troubling and disturbing because of the acting, not strictly any particular plot point. Bloom sold me on the unraveling in a way that felt much more urgent and real, and it was all the more effective for it. It didn't feel like a TV show version of a spiral. It felt like a spiral. And that tone shift clinched for me the severity of the events in this episode. 

At the same time, the show was still funny. The credits of the movie were hilarious, other bits with other characters made me laugh. I thought the blend was brilliantly executed that she had me on board for what played like a realistic breakdown getting worse and worse and I was still laughing at the things they put there for me to laugh at, and it didn't feel at all weird to do so.

[Trishelle]

On 11/3/2017 at 9:24 PM, possibilities said:

Paula putting trackers in Rebecca and Valencia was really over the line, well past shenanigans and way far into crazytown. If I was Valencia, I'd be extremely freaked out about that revelation.

One of my favorite things about this show is that you're never sure when you can safely suspend your disbelief and when you can't.  Sometimes an absurd action is just a wacky sitcom joke like you'd expect;  other times it's revealed to be a symptom of a serious issue.  So we'll have to see how they handle the trackers (and the rest of Paula's stalky/obsessive behavior from season 1).  

Edited November 5, 2017 by Trishelle