S08.E01: Mercy

[CletusMusashi]

If Rick is going to grow his beard that long he should let Michonne style it for him. Do Coral's hair, too. Actually, also Judith's. They could totally look like a whole pirate family. And get Coral a real eye patch. Because no way is somebody who wears a preposterous hat 24/7 so disinterested in fashion that he would rather just run around all day with a mummy-flap in front of his eye.

Tara, you just keep doing what you're doing. I imagine they'll kill you off fairly soon, so scoop up as much of that product placement money as you can get.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They all had clear shots to take out Negan and his top lieutenants and end this nightmare for all peaceful people once and for all, and decided to waste hundreds, if not thousands, of bullets and shoot out all of the windows instead. But do you know how hard it will be for the Saviors to find a good glazier in the ZA?

It is a long term strategy.  When winter comes, all the Saviors will catch bad colds or maybe even the flu.    

[Boofish]

On 10/22/2017 at 10:25 PM, MichaelaRae said:

Let's face it, y'all. I'm this show's Savior. I question very little. I ignore the plot holes and just enjoy the acting and most of the zombies and just lose myself in the stories of good people doing bad things for the right reasons, doing the right things for bad reasons, and what happens when the world goes to shit and human beings are STILL the biggest monsters and angels the world has ever seen. It's what drew me into the show years ago (my sister was in it for the zombies and sat me down for a binge watch after season 1....and I was hooked. But not for the zombies. ;-) ) And it's still what draws me in.

It also continually reaffirms for me that if the apocalypse comes, I need to go out in the initial wave. I am NOT cut out for this world.

I'm right there with you as far as the show is concerned. My fiance is fully stocked with weapons, ammo and food so if there is an apocalypse, we will come and get you :)

[CletusMusashi]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It is a long term strategy.  When winter comes, all the Saviors will catch bad colds or maybe even the flu.    

Also, they won't have any internet, because Rick made their Windows crash.

It's an extra-special torture they came up with, just for Eugene.

Edited October 24, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[Bryce Lynch]

48 minutes ago, yuggapukka said:

I can see Maggie as a peacetime leader, someone who gets things done, manages logistics, has a quiet word with people, etc. I don't see her as anything more than a soldier when it comes down to a fight and when it comes to delivering "inspiring" words, neither the actress nor the character has the charisma to pull it off and I am bored by the stream of platitudes that the writers put in her mouth. Lauren is an enjoyable actress when she has someone like Scot Wilson or Stephen Yeun to play off of but her she does not stand on her own feet very well. Without a strong and giving scene-partner she's barely adequate and seems a little lost when she's supposed to carry a scene. As for her fucking pouf-less eternal preganacy, the writers can just fuck off with how short the fucking timeline has been in the past several seasons. It looks ridiculous, not just because of the Carl factor, but also everyone, with a couple of exceptions have noticeably aged, in some cases drastically.

The episode would have been a lot better if Rick had taken a successful shot at Negan and seriously wounded the fucker, instead of more of the same-old same-old. If they want the character to seem scary, being cornered and pissed off for an actual reason rather than just because he's a chortling bully would at least potentially work, unlike what they are doing now. Plus, this show is so big on using heavy-handed symbolism, wounding Negan would certainly underline what they were doing with the attack on his compound.

Enough with the flashbacks, flash-forwards and dream sequences, if they are going to utilize them, it needs to add something to the narrative rather than muddying it. I often appreciate it when something like that is confined to an opening sequence and sense is made of it by the end, but what we saw was all over the place and undercut the momentum without adding anything more than filler to the episode.

ITA about the flashbacks, etc.  They have become so pretentious and over indulgent with them.  How about just come up with a good story and tell it in chronological order?  I am tired of trying to guess when the flashback or flash forward takes place and what it means or if it is only a dream sequence.  The show runners seem to be mistaking confusion for mystery and intrigue. 

[Ocean Chick]

I love Maggie, but I've never seen her as a leader, for whatever reason.  When Deanna picked her in ASZ to be second in command, I was perplexed.  She's a young 20-something who can make pretty speeches and fire a gun, but that doesn't make one a leader.  And all these older people who are also survivors think she should be in charge?  It's almost like the spinoff, with all the adult preppers electing to follow a teenaged girl (Alicia) who they've only known for a couple of weeks.  Just doesn't make sense.

Otherwise, it was good to see the group working together again.  Tara, and her twizzlers and stupid sun glasses, needs to go.  And I can't wait for the death of Jadis.  I fear Negan will never die.  But could they cut out his tongue at least?  I could live with that.  And FPP needs to get slapped upside the head for trying to help Gregory, who does not deserve it.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I like Dwight, he did good on his part of the plan. 

Wait - what was Dwight's part in this plan? It seems like all he did was shoot a note to Daryl saying "tomorrow." Tomorrow what? Tomorrow was the day Rick would attack? Why would Dwight be telling Daryl that? Wouldn't it be the other way around? And to what purpose? Even if they trust Dwight isn't it best to play it safe and not tip him off to their plans - just in case?

Quote

If this was all about Negan, then why lead a bunch of walkers into the area where the saviors live?  The walkers aren't going to be just chewing on Negan,  They are going to be going after and eating anything with a pulse.

Maybe they were willing to give them a heads-up: "Zombies a'comin'! Git while you still have time!" if they turned over Negan. Yes? I dunno - I got nothin'.

Quote

I do find it mildly interesting that all of Rick's terrible pep talk seems to be reiterating over and over again that the world is theirs "by right."  You know who else likes to tell his followers that everything is theirs for the taking, Rick?   The same guy you devised this latest intricate plan against only to not take a clean shot at.

Well, I see the distinction here because Rick is fighting for people to live free without oppression from groups like the Saviors. 

What's ironic is that Rick himself was fully prepared to become a Negan-like oppressor when he first arrived at Alexandria. He looked around, realized everyone there was an idiot, and said "huh, we might have to kill them and take over." I thought that was an interesting turn of events. I wish they had stuck with that direction instead of just bringing in yet another group of bullies to fight.

In short, Negan and Season 7 as a whole  sort of killed the momentum of the evolution Rick and his group were going through up until that point.

[Raven1707]

I haven't had a chance to read through the thread yet, but the Sunday Cable Ratings are in for "Mercy":

“The Walking Dead” returned Sunday to its smallest premiere in several years.

Although it’s still among the biggest shows on TV, the AMC series put up its smallest premiere rating among adults 18-49 (5.0) since Season 2 and its smallest total audience for a season debut (11.44 million) since Season 3.

No one was expecting the show to match last year’s massive debut (the show’s second-best outing ever with an 8.4 in the 18-49 demographic and 17 million viewers), but “The Walking Dead” was also behind its Season 7 average (5.4) and the rating for last season’s finale (also 5.4). It was slightly ahead of both last season’s viewer average (11.35 million) and the finale total (11.31 million).

Sunday’s show was also the biggest premiere on cable in 2017, besting the 4.7 and 10.11 million viewers for “Game of Thrones.”

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-cable-ratings-oct-22-2017/

[Miles]

21 hours ago, Dobian said:

Because logic and common sense have no place on this show, it's about contrived scenes to generate contrived plots, like Gabriel getting stuck in a portable building with Negan.  Ninety percent of what happens on this show should never happen the way it does.  Which goes back to the lazy and nonsensical writing.

We should also note that Gabriel has a gun and Negan only has a bat and Negan just gave up the element of surprise to pontificate about shitting pants. In any reality that makes sense Gabriel would just shoot Negan in the head and then Negan would likely empty his bowels after death... you know, for the shitting pants.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Wait - what was Dwight's part in this plan? It seems like all he did was shoot a note to Daryl saying "tomorrow." Tomorrow what? Tomorrow was the day Rick would attack? Why would Dwight be telling Daryl that? Wouldn't it be the other way around? And to what purpose? Even if they trust Dwight isn't it best to play it safe and not tip him off to their plans - just in case?

Maybe he meant, "Tomorrow Negan and his top command will be standing out in the open where all your people will have a clear shot at him and take him out so I can somehow be a hero instead of a weasly cuckold who took out my impotent rage at Negan by stealing all your stuff, Daryl, and making sure to torture you and feed you dogfood even though I could have given you some human food."

OTOH, why not place trust in one of Negan's ass-kissing toadies? After all, Rick immediately, completely and thoroughly trusted Jadis after her garbage people attacked his gang and threw him into a trash pit to die a horrible death with that fucked-up zombie.

ETA:

Dobian said:

Quote

Which goes back to the lazy and nonsensical writing.

I don't even think it's lazy. I really think this is the best they can do. They're certainly quite proud of it.

Edited October 24, 2017 by AngelaHunter

[Pixiebomb]

I guess they have mastered the Pied Piper trick with the hoard since two(?) seasons ago when the quarry walkers were headed for ASZ.  They were very nonchalant about it, only sending Daryl and I guess Carol and Tara did some work too. Last time they had all of Alexandria out building walls and clearing noisy buildings. They had multiple cars and balloons even. This time they send out Daryl with what? A six shooter and some well placed explosives and the herd does exactly what they want. 

 

Ok. 

[ghoulina]

17 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

I understand why the Hilltop picked her over Gregory but still cant believe others following her.

Yea, I mean, I'd pick dead Olivia over Gregory. That's not saying much. 

I WANT to like Maggie. I liked her better in the early seasons. Not buying her as a leader, though. I like the idea of it. I like Jesus and Rick's commitment to it. I just don't think Lauren is selling it. 

[ghoulina]

4 hours ago, Boofish said:

Glad they let him live. Same thing he does to other communities. Terrorize the leader so the others will fall in line.

Except in other communities, the members generally like their leader. Everyone has Rick's back. King Ezekial is well loved. Negan is feared, but not really liked except maybe by a few. 

Also, Negan's tactic is really more of the opposite of that. He kills/terrorizes OTHERS to keep the leader in line. 

I see NO benefit in letting Negan live. Unless you think there's an excess of oxygen on Earth. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Wait - what was Dwight's part in this plan? It seems like all he did was shoot a note to Daryl saying "tomorrow." Tomorrow what? Tomorrow was the day Rick would attack? Why would Dwight be telling Daryl that? Wouldn't it be the other way around? And to what purpose? Even if they trust Dwight isn't it best to play it safe and not tip him off to their plans - just in case?

I thought two notes were exchanged - one from Daryl to Dwight, telling him "tomorrow"; and one from Dwight to Daryl, giving a list of outposts and lookouts to attack. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

[piequinn35]

On 10/23/2017 at 6:42 AM, Pixiebomb said:

When Rick was waking up in bed and they showed the flowers I thought "oh no- please don't tell me this entire show has been a dream and Rick is just now waking up from his Coma in the hospital."  I can just see it now- Rick is waking up with Lori and Shane by his side- pan out to the hallway where delivery guy Glen is delivering flowers. Paramedics T- Dog an Jackie talking to cop Daryl- who is guarding his prisoner Meryl while Dr Andrea is treating him.  Candy Striper Amy is playing with Sophia while her dad Ed wheels pregnant Carol into ER. And Dale is on the TV running for Mayor of a town called Woodbury. And Morgan is eating cheese. 

 

On 10/23/2017 at 10:19 AM, bad things are bad said:

And Carl is sitting quietly, playing with a snow globe...and the building inside the snow globe is HERSCHEL'S FARM!

While Sasha is sitting in the waiting room watching Star Trek!

[iMonrey]

Quote

I thought two notes were exchanged - one from Daryl to Dwight, telling him "tomorrow"; and one from Dwight to Daryl, giving a list of outposts and lookouts to attack. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

Oh maybe you're right, I'll have to go back and look. I could have sworn the note Dwight shot out to Daryl was the one that said "tomorrow." 

But Dwight might have been the one who gave Rick's group the location of all the lookouts and scouts. That does kind of make sense.

[DearEvette]

On 10/22/2017 at 10:43 PM, tennisgurl said:

Dear Lord, stuck between Negan and a zombie horde. Talk about a fate worse than death! *Negan speechifying for 20 minuets about piss and dicks* “hello zombies!” *throws self into horde*

Seriously.  What is Negan's deal with bodily waste?  Whoever writes his dialogue is super preoccupied with dicks, balls and all matters scatological.

[ghoulina]

3 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Seriously.  What is Negan's deal with bodily waste?  Whoever writes his dialogue is super preoccupied with dicks, balls and all matters scatological.

I have two words for you. Robert. Kirkman. 

The perpetual 14-year-old

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Miles said:

We should also note that Gabriel has a gun and Negan only has a bat and Negan just gave up the element of surprise to pontificate about shitting pants. In any reality that makes sense Gabriel would just shoot Negan in the head and then Negan would likely empty his bowels after death... you know, for the shitting pants.

As preposterous as the way Gabriel and Neagan ended up in the that room together was, it would be kind of cool if formerly wimpy Gabriel ended up being the one to kill the almighty evil (and long winded) one, Neagan.  At least have him shoot out his vocal chords.  

[nodorothyparker]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Quote

I thought two notes were exchanged - one from Daryl to Dwight, telling him "tomorrow"; and one from Dwight to Daryl, giving a list of outposts and lookouts to attack. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

Oh maybe you're right, I'll have to go back and look. I could have sworn the note Dwight shot out to Daryl was the one that said "tomorrow." 

But Dwight might have been the one who gave Rick's group the location of all the lookouts and scouts. That does kind of make sense.

Daryl shot the note that only said "tomorrow" to Dwight.  We see Dwight shoot a note back to Daryl but don't see that contents of that note.  The next time we see Daryl, he's just taken out the second lookout and it cuts to crossing that lookout off the list.  I assumed from that too that the list must come from Dwight.

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Seriously.  What is Negan's deal with bodily waste?  Whoever writes his dialogue is super preoccupied with dicks, balls and all matters scatological.

I HATE the way the writers have Neagan come up with various expressions that they obviously think are so cool but that are actually embarrassingly lame.  Sort of like Dad jokes created by 12 year olds. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Daryl shot the note that only said "tomorrow" to Dwight.  We see Dwight shoot a note back to Daryl but don't see that contents of that note.  The next time we see Daryl, he's just taken out the second lookout and it cuts to crossing that lookout off the list.  I assumed from that too that the list must come from Dwight.

Thanks, you saved me a re-watch. I have to admit, it cracked me up the way we see this guy smoking a cigarette, suddenly felled by an arrow and falling out of frame. In steps Daryl, with the cigarette in his mouth. I mean, they can waste all the bullets they want, but . . . cigarettes are scarce!

Edited October 24, 2017 by iMonrey

[nodorothyparker]

21 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Seriously.  What is Negan's deal with bodily waste?  Whoever writes his dialogue is super preoccupied with dicks, balls and all matters scatological.

Well, somebody has to be since he bashed the Heat Miser's skull in.  If he'd let Abe live, that might have solved the problem right there.  Lock the two of them in a room together and let them talk each other to death in colorful expressions about shit.

[Boofish]

On 10/23/2017 at 8:13 AM, Pixel said:

Ok, I still don't get what the point was of wasting thousands of rounds on shooting out windows. Anyone?

I believe it was to attract the herd, and to let the people still inside know they were being threatened/warned without actually killing anyone inside. Rick and his group do not want the workers to die; they are the ones in that building in open quarters. 

On 10/23/2017 at 10:32 AM, xaxat said:

Did we lose an original character last night? Was that Hershel's Dale's RV they blew up to breach the gates?

That was the RV Aaron used to bring the Ricktones to Alexandria, the one used to try and get Maggie to the Hilltop, the one where the Wolves tried to take out Rick.

Dale's RV was destroyed on the farm at the end of Season 2

[Primetimer]

The Season 8 premiere forgoes bloat while opening up some intriguing possibilities with Multiple Ricks.

View the full article

[The Companion]

On 10/22/2017 at 10:09 PM, RedheadZombie said:

My interpretation of sticking to the plan would be Negan shot dead on site, the remaining - weaponless - men would be offered surrender.  Gregory's already been thrown down the stairs, they know Dwight's on their side, and that leaves two guys with their hands in the air.  Plus, their kill list didn't offer one single person the opportunity to surrender.

I realize Negan can't be killed because he's sticking around, and I don't even mind it that much.  But please make it more plausible.   Have Negan using the human shield of a child, covered head to toe in Kevlar vests - something.  Instead Negan's throwing himself, somersaulting about the yard, and it becomes a bit comical.

I could write a treatise on how much THIS, this post has. As the audience, we shouldn't be yelling SHOOT HIM while he hams it up and the people who watched loved ones die at his hands sit around and watch him ramble. Honestly, if he had a human shield, I would STILL expect some discussion as to whether or not to just shoot through the human shield. There is no going back. He has seen all of your groups and if he lives he is going to try and find the worst way to hurt you. He is going to rape you and make your husband sit by, he is going to randomly choose someone and murder them while you all watch helplessly. There is no negotiating with Negan, so there is no plausible reason they aren't shooting as soon as he shows is smug face.

 

On 10/22/2017 at 11:28 PM, bobbyjoe said:

The showrunners simply do not realize how completely happy and energized the tv fans would be if Negan was in mid(idiotic)speech in an episode like this and "bang" somebody shoots him and he's dead.  I guarantee that it would be maybe the most popular moment of the series for now and for years to come.  I don't know if it's just that they're too wedded to the comic book series or to the actor, but whatever the reason, it's waaaaaaaaaaay past time for them to let it go.

Like didn't Gabriel still have his gun?  Do you know how much I would've paid if Negan had popped up and said "I hope you've got your shittin' pants on" and Gabriel had been like "yeah, I got your shittin' pants right here" and shot the damn bastard about eighty-five times.

This would be so amazing. It really would become a talking point for years to come. They have given us some shock deaths, but Negan just keeps trucking along. Hell, you want to really shock us, have him suddenly collapse from a heart attack or stroke and then have an entire plot about whether or not the doctor will help him or not. 

 

On 10/23/2017 at 1:49 AM, scrb said:

Those speeches were awful.  Talking about tomorrow and some better world?  Please, the hostilities have already started.  This is a war for survival.  You don't have to conjure up gooey dreams of a perfect future.

 

Right? This isn't "we can create a better world" this is "let's stop this monster who keeps murdering us and forcing us to put our families at risk to feed himself." Don't even get me started on Rick acting like he has the only (or the most valid) reason to want Negan dead.

On 10/23/2017 at 5:24 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Too bad it didn't kill him.

Seriously, if the writers won't kill Neegan, they can at least kill Gregory. They owe us that.

I would have loved it if that was how Gregory went. Dead from being pushed down the stairs in a zombie apocalypse sounds about right for him.

On 10/23/2017 at 7:42 AM, ghoulina said:

I think when the Tara/Carole/Morgan/Daryl crew caused the first big explosion on the highway, a bunch of Saviors took off to see what happened - leaving their compound not as defended. Where they actually ended up and who's planning on dealing with them is another story. 

I was a little confused about this because they had set the explosives for the herd, hadn't they? Why are they going to check out an explosion that theoretically has accomplished what they intended it to accomplish?

On 10/23/2017 at 8:42 AM, Pixiebomb said:

When Rick was waking up in bed and they showed the flowers I thought "oh no- please don't tell me this entire show has been a dream and Rick is just now waking up from his Coma in the hospital."  I can just see it now- Rick is waking up with Lori and Shane by his side- pan out to the hallway where delivery guy Glen is delivering flowers. Paramedics T- Dog an Jackie talking to cop Daryl- who is guarding his prisoner Meryl while Dr Andrea is treating him.  Candy Striper Amy is playing with Sophia while her dad Ed wheels pregnant Carol into ER. And Dale is on the TV running for Mayor of a town called Woodbury. And Morgan is eating cheese. 

We were laughing about a reboot too. I was like OH NO, WE WOULD HAVE TO BRING BACK LORI.

On 10/23/2017 at 9:34 AM, Dobian said:

This whole show requires suspending disbelief.  Conservation of ammo was completely ignored last night, as the gang liberally shot up everything that wasn't a live person with their finite supply.  The fact that there are still massive hordes of zombies walking around completely defies belief.  Their bodies would have crumbled long ago from deterioration and the elements.

Here is the thing. I don't mind suspending belief. I have said in other shows that the gasoline crisis that would arise doesn't really bother me that much (though it could have been an interesting side plot). I am not looking for absolute realism. What does bother me is that they made low ammo a huge plot point. We had to watch varying side quests for ammo and guns all season last season. Don't spend 6 episodes talking about a dwindling resource just to have it suddenly become plentiful. Establish the rules and stick with them. If you have unlimited candles (Jericho, I am looking at you), I might mock you but I am going to stop noticing it or commenting on it and just write it off as part of the show.

On 10/23/2017 at 6:32 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I think you are way smarter than the writers of this show.  It just doesn't make sense to me that they destroyed multiple functioning vehicles, used up a huge amount of explosives and ammunition, just to expose them to walkers.  These aren't Alexandrians or other naïve people, they know how to fight walkers.  They are in a brick building that cannot be caved in by dead bodies.  The first floor of windows can easily be barricaded, and the rest of the windows they blew up can't be accessed by walkers.  

So all of these valuable, and non-renewable resources are wasted, and Negan and his top lieutenants are still alive and kicking.  And if they remain silent within the building, the walkers will be distracted away by any type of noise.  We've seen it happen.  Negan gets a Savior with a great arm, and they lob off a few grenades in different directions.  The mindless walkers shamble off to check it out.  They reinforce fences and steadily kill off the walkers and problem solved.  And Negan's still alive and thriving.

This was the part that made no sense to me. These guys are in a stronghold. The fence appears to be more to dissuade people from getting in, not to stop walkers. They have a huge store of supplies and the ability to bar the doors until the walkers wander away. What is the purpose of using all these resources just to surround them with walkers. Not to mention the bizarre choice to be there when it happened. You bring in a strike team and have them ram the gate with the winnebago. When everyone comes out to see what the noise was, the walkers overrun the doors. Boom. No mess, no speeches, no risk to most of your army. Instead, they all stood outside behind sheets of metal (would those even stop a bullet?) so they could shoot out some windows? What?? 

 

This episode was disappointing for me, more so because it was a premiere and usually you can at least expect the two pieces of bread on TWD season sandwich to be good. It felt like more of the same. Leading a big herd, overrunning a fenced area, boring speeches. We have seen all of this before. Multiple times. We didn't even get to see the groups really work together, unless you count a few throwaway lines. There were 100 ways to make this episode interesting while either keeping Negan alive or drawing out the "war" and instead we ended up with a completely nonsensical meandering plot line with random time jumps. I found myself not really emotionally invested when the action started (except for hoping Negan would get eaten but I pretty much feel that way all the time). 

[Catronia]

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I have to admit, it cracked me up the way we see this guy smoking a cigarette, suddenly felled by an arrow and falling out of frame. In ))steps Daryl, with the cigarette in his mouth. I mean, they can waste all the bullets they want, but . . . cigarettes are scarce!

Yeah, talk about a non-renewable resource (at least until they can settle down and grow plenty of grains and vegetables and then have space and labor for tobacco crops)! Though Darryl being Darryl, he'd just grow his own secret little tobacco patch.

I thought it would have been much funnier (and made more sense) had Darryl rather than Tara been the Twizzler addict. 

[Lady Iris]

2 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

The Season 8 premiere forgoes bloat while opening up some intriguing possibilities with Multiple Ricks.

View the full article

Can I just say how happy I was to see this and read it and enjoy the bountiful snark? I enjoy podcasts in general but there's just something about the written word for these recaps that I just love. Thank you!

[Catronia]

I am so excited to see a real recap back on this site! The quality of your recappers is always outstanding (thanks, Omar) and the recaps themselves so fun to read. Hurray!

[Ocean Chick]

Quote

I was a little confused about this because they had set the explosives for the herd, hadn't they? Why are they going to check out an explosion that theoretically has accomplished what they intended it to accomplish?

I think they'd set the first couple of explosions to guide the herd in the direction they wanted.  But I think they set the wire across the road because they also knew that Negan would send a group to attack Rick and co. from the rear, and this would take out that threat.  At least that's the way it is in my head.  Which tends to want to be more logical than what this show tosses out.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Ok, I still don't get what the point was of wasting thousands of rounds on shooting out windows. Anyone?

Honestly, I think it's just as simple as the show-runners wanting a bad-ass shoot'em up scene, period. They're ready to give the "good guys" a big win in some visually awesome way, and what better than to have them utterly decimate the Sanctuary in a hail of gunfire? I don't think they were going for anything more than that, frankly, or were overly concerned about logistics or continuity. I think they just expected the audience to go "Fuck yeah!" watching their heroes shoot up the place.

[TigerLynx]

I wanted Carl or Shiva to kill Negan, but the idea of Gabriel killing him appeals to me to.  Negan gets taken out by a guy who was previously a coward all because Negan starts yakking and fails to notice Gabriel's gun.  I could also get on board with the idea of Negan trying to use a human shield (possibly Eugene or Dwight), and someone killing both Negan and his shield.  

At this point, I just want an end to the stalemate of "I'm going to kill you."  "No, I'm going to kill you."  It would save me the trouble of screaming at my TV, "Oh for god's sake would one of you just die or kill the other one already."

[Ottis]

Hey, a written recap of a show. Nice to see again. I don't watch this show anymore (too repetitive), but still nice. Thank you.

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, Ocean Chick said:

I think they'd set the first couple of explosions to guide the herd in the direction they wanted.  But I think they set the wire across the road because they also knew that Negan would send a group to attack Rick and co. from the rear, and this would take out that threat.  At least that's the way it is in my head.  Which tends to want to be more logical than what this show tosses out.

Negan sent the recon team to check out the first explosion. Darryl and friends set the IED on the road that they knew the recon team would use.

[Lady Iris]

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

Hey, a written recap of a show. Nice to see again. I don't watch this show anymore (too repetitive), but still nice. Thank you.

Omar G used to write TWoP recaps for Smallville which I gave up watching but still loved to read his recaps because they were hilarious.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Lady Iris

[ShadowHunter]

On 10/24/2017 at 3:24 PM, ghoulina said:

Yea, I mean, I'd pick dead Olivia over Gregory. That's not saying much. 

I WANT to like Maggie. I liked her better in the early seasons. Not buying her as a leader, though. I like the idea of it. I like Jesus and Rick's commitment to it. I just don't think Lauren is selling it. 

I liked Maggie at first but that didn't last long lol. She became too much about Glenn.

I hope Rick and Carol talk or have a moment soon.  Not enough time to talk about her leaving and him looking for her but it would be nice.

[Nashville]

On 10/22/2017 at 9:25 PM, AimingforYoko said:

You think Simon and co. are just going to bend over if Negan's dead? This is a war.

Only one way to find out.  :)

Seriously, though - if Negan were killed, Simon would just step right into Negan's shoes.  Everybody knows Simon is Negan's #2.

But wait a minute; Simon's on the dock walk right beside Negan.  So why not shoot him too?

And who's #3?  Probably standing there bare-ass unarmed as well.  

So kill 'em all, and let the walkers sort 'em out.

I've always said Negan was a strategist where Rick was a tactician, which explained why Negan always seemed to be one step ahead at every turn - but Negan having his entire ruling cadre out there on the dock?  STOOOOO-PID!!!!.  For the same reason the Prez and the VP don't travel together - too easy for one mishap to take out too many head honchos at a single shot.

So fire at will, kiddies. Shoot enough of the top guys, and eventually you'll get to a point where enough of the topknot is cut out to let the rest of the organization unravel.

 

On 10/22/2017 at 9:37 PM, leela46 said:

Didn't FPP have a gun? The moment Negan made his shitting pants comment, just shoot him. God would understand.

If I interpreted what I saw correctly: after Gargamel ran off with FPP's car, FPP's rifle either jammed or ran out of ammo shooting at walkers - hence FPP's dash for shelter.

Regardless, FPP's survival instincts (as usual) are for shit - because the moment Negan casually sauntered out of the shadows spouting his "shittin' pants" horseshit *I* would have been outta the starting blocks bumrushing his ass before he could get Lucille into batter-up position, and endeavoring to slide a knife up under his ribs.  And if a good-sized knife isn't part of your standard every-day-carry in the ZA, then you're just too fucking stupid to survive.

 

BTW my nomination is still for FPP - Father Piss 'n Poop.

 

On 10/22/2017 at 9:49 PM, RedheadZombie said:

Then there's Daryl, whose weapon of choice is a crossbow, and he's suddenly the sharp shooter who hits targets unbelievably far away, while riding a motorcycle, and looking backwards.

IIRC Daryl was shown very early in the series to be proficient with all forms of hunting and shooting gear (not surprising for a country boy).  Daryl simply prefers the crossbow because it's more practical in the ZA; it's quiet, and using it doesn't draw walkers like a gunshot would.

 

On 10/23/2017 at 8:10 AM, Lady Iris said:

Was it me or did Coral's voice drop more than a few octaves? That was my biggest surprise for last night.

I caught that as well.  :D

 

On 10/23/2017 at 8:13 AM, Pixel said:

Ok, I still don't get what the point was of wasting thousands of rounds on shooting out windows. Anyone?

First off, it wasn't shooting at Savior snipers.  If y'all recall, we've actually seen inside this building; we were shown it when Eugene was given his Grand Tour of the place. It's the bazaar where all the Saviors trade and/or cash in their points for supplies.  It was a huge open area, and those windows were simply a sheer wall of glass to let in light - with no catwalks for snipers to stand upon.

That being said - two reasons I could see behind busting up the window treatments:

1. All their food and other supplies were centralized in this one location - and are now exposed to the elements.
2. If Negan did have a few hundred armed Saviors inside ready and waiting to rush our Spunky Little Band of Intrepid Wanderers, then they would've gotten good and julienned by falling glass.

 

On 10/23/2017 at 9:27 AM, mightysparrow said:

I understand that Danai isn't available for shooting because she's off shooting something exponentially better.  But on this show, she's still playing a character named MICHONNE. And if you're going to leave Michonne behind while EVERYONE besides the children and Rosita go off to war, Michonne should be bedridden, too injured to fight.  Because that was bullshit.  Michonne didn't have a mark on her.  And she didn't even express a LITTLE unhappiness with being left behind.

I think you're missing the timeline here - namely, we're not more than a few days after the S7 Finale's Gunfight at the ASZ Corral.  Rosita still has a fresh bandage over the gunshot wound she sustained in the shoot-up.  Which means although the blood may have been washed off her face and the swelling may have gone down some, Michonne is still not more than a couple of days past nearly being beaten to death.  Maybe you missed it, but Michonne even says so as Rick&Co. are pulling out of ASZ in their little sheet metal wonders:

Carl: I know you wanted to go with him.  I did too.

Michonne (with a grimace): Everything hurts.

 

Stupid-ass "armoring" job on the cars, btw.  What the hell is that tin-roof sheeting supposed to stop - harsh language?

 

On 10/23/2017 at 2:18 PM, ghoulina said:

Maggie's still not showing, yet Carl is ready to buy a pack of smokes and enlist in the Army. 

Total agreement, and thank you for the best laugh I've had all day.

 

Quote

Seriously. Chandler Riggs turned 18 this summer.  According to TWD Wiki, it's still only been 2 years and some change since the show began.  So Carl should be, what? At MOST 14? And that's really being generous, IMO. I don't think he looked any older than 10 when the series began. 

Chandler Riggs was 10 when the series began.  So that's understandable.  ;)

 

On 10/24/2017 at 9:55 AM, AngelaHunter said:

Yeah, that was good. What's not good is spending all that time since [Morgan] appeared in Alexandria telling and showing us that he thinks all life is sacred and refusing to kill, even to protect the very people feeding and housing him. It was all pointless with no impact, especially the (what seemed like) five hour episode where he becomes Zen with a goat and talky cheesemaker. All that time  was wasted, meaningless, because suddenly he's "Oh, wait - I guess all life isn't precious, well, unless I say it is or until I find someone I want to kill. Then it's not precious. Or something like that. Forget all that "try to love one another right now" BS I prattled on about."

Welcome to the Fifty Shades of Jones:

1. Immediately Post-ZA Morgan: distraught over his wife's death, but still keenly conscious of his responsibility for his son Duane's well-being.
2. Crazy Morgan: holing up, collecting weapons, killing walkers and writing on the walls.
3. CLEAR! Morgan: Crazy Morgan taken to an extreme.  Advanced from killing walkers to killing humans - and killing every motherlovin' one of them he meets, just to be on the safe side.
4. Every Sperm Is Sacred Morgan: done kilt too much, ain't gonna kill nothin' no more.
5. Kingdom Morgan: regained a *little* bit of a balance between #3 and #4 after his quasi-replacement-son-figure (Benjamin) gets iced by a Savior.

Okay, it's not anywhere near fifty.  So sue me.  Poetic license, bitches.  ;>

 

On 10/24/2017 at 10:11 AM, Boofish said:

I'm going to read thru all the comments while I eat my delicious lunch (sarcasm; on a strict diet)

Lunch.  Damn.  Knew I forgot something today.

[piequinn35]

On 10/23/2017 at 6:13 AM, Pixel said:

Ok, I still don't get what the point was of wasting thousands of rounds on shooting out windows. Anyone?

The noise attracted the Z's, if they sniped Negan and co. then our "great writers" will have to come up with a new big bad, so they have to stretch Negan and co. as villains for this whole season.

[RedheadZombie]

On October 24, 2017 at 4:16 PM, iMonrey said:

Oh maybe you're right, I'll have to go back and look. I could have sworn the note Dwight shot out to Daryl was the one that said "tomorrow." 

But Dwight might have been the one who gave Rick's group the location of all the lookouts and scouts. That does kind of make sense.

I think Dwight's other part was making sure an extra large force of Saviors went out to investigate and get exploded.  It was Dwight's voice on the walkie, not Negan's, and he said something about the need to send out a bigger team this time.  

5 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I wanted Carl or Shiva to kill Negan, but the idea of Gabriel killing him appeals to me to.  Negan gets taken out by a guy who was previously a coward all because Negan starts yakking and fails to notice Gabriel's gun.  I could also get on board with the idea of Negan trying to use a human shield (possibly Eugene or Dwight), and someone killing both Negan and his shield.  

At this point, I just want an end to the stalemate of "I'm going to kill you."  "No, I'm going to kill you."  It would save me the trouble of screaming at my TV, "Oh for god's sake would one of you just die or kill the other one already."

I don't know why Rick seems to think that Negan is "his".   The one who has most suffered from Lucille is Maggie.  Otherwise I would choose the other "widow", but she's already dead.  

[SimoneS]

On 10/23/2017 at 10:27 AM, mightysparrow said:

I understand that Danai isn't available for shooting because she's off shooting something exponentially better.  But on this show, she's still playing a character named MICHONNE. And if you're going to leave Michonne behind while EVERYONE besides the children and Rosita go off to war, Michonne should be bedridden, too injured to fight.  Because that was bullshit.  Michonne didn't have a mark on her.  And she didn't even express a LITTLE unhappiness with being left behind.

I know that a lot of people are happy that Michonne is Rick's woman and some are even satisfied that that's ALL she is now.  But Michonne is one of the most iconic characters in the TWD-verse and this bullshit is fucking insulting.

Danai was available to shoot a few seconds of film so the show put her in costume and had Michonne say that "everything hurts," keeping it simple. Goodness knows how many times that they had to film that short scene and how time she could give them on that day. Besides it has only been a few days since Michonne was nearly beaten to death (and Rosita was shot) so they expect the fans to get that. Frankly, I think that it is unreasonable to expect the show to spend unnecessary time and money to put Danai in extra bruised makeup and build/set up a bedroom set when she is going to be mostly MIA for almost six episodes. I certainly don't think that it is deserving of the outrage or sneering at fans who do not share your opinion about Michonne's relationship with Rick.

Edited October 26, 2017 by SimoneS

[Itaruga]

The severe lack of a budget, shows. Painfully. I miss season 1, and Darabont. I think I'll go rewatch it. Chemistry between Lennie and Andrew, killed. Between Mr Mary Poppins, y'all and Norman, killed. Now we have..... Rosita and like....the other ones or something....

[Ottis]

12 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

The noise attracted the Z's, if they sniped Negan and co. then our "great writers" will have to come up with a new big bad, so they have to stretch Negan and co. as villains for this whole season.

I wish they would drop all big bads of the season, because the show has had a succession of them and the plot line is well past tired, and start focusing on some kind of goal or direction. or ultimate truth in a post zombie apocolypse world. I quit watching 3+ seasons ago because the show was going nowhere. I check into the premiere and the season ending episodes, so I watched 15 minutes of this one (I got to see the window shooting scene, and thought, in a Navin Johnson voice, "They really HATE those windows!"). It's still going nowhere.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Ottis

[Back In My Day]

Regarding the graves, aren't they Glenn and Abe's just shot from a different camera angle?  The rocks and fence look the same, Rick is at the Hilltop, and it made sense he would visit the first two fallen friends Negan had taken away before going into battle.  I don't have the episode to rewatch.  Thoughts?  

Edited October 27, 2017 by Back In My Day

[ghoulina]

I didn't think there was any ambiguity about that. It looked like Hilltop, and Abe and Glenn's graves, to me. I'm glad to see them actually remembering those who have died. This show has a history of often forgetting the fallen. 

[Nashville]

Purely MHO - but I think:

• Rick has vowed multiple times to kill Negan, as revenge for Negan's murders of Abraham and Glenn.
• Unfortunately (for Rick, anyway), events have transpired in such a way Rick must NOT kill Negan; the Good Guys Group somehow now benefits from Negan's continued existence, and does so to such a degree it outweighs Rick's personal desire for revenge.
• Rick accepts this, but doesn't like it one bit - he is stressed out to the point of tears, and feels he is betraying the memories of Glenn and Abraham.

...hence Rick's red-eyed flash-forward scenes to which we've been treated lately.

[seacliffsal]

Most surprising thing for me?  How few comments and pages there are in this discussion topic.  Usually by the time I read through them all there are at least 12 or 13.  May be an indication of our excitement for the direction of this episode and season...

[festivus]

18 hours ago, Nashville said:

Purely MHO - but I think:

• Rick has vowed multiple times to kill Negan, as revenge for Negan's murders of Abraham and Glenn.
• Unfortunately (for Rick, anyway), events have transpired in such a way Rick must NOT kill Negan; the Good Guys Group somehow now benefits from Negan's continued existence, and does so to such a degree it outweighs Rick's personal desire for revenge.
• Rick accepts this, but doesn't like it one bit - he is stressed out to the point of tears, and feels he is betraying the memories of Glenn and Abraham.

...hence Rick's red-eyed flash-forward scenes to which we've been treated lately.

I think you might be onto something here. Maybe Negan saves Coral and absconds with him or something like that.  While I would miss Coral, I could certainly do without Negan.

 

I just read the recap which was way more entertaining than the actual episode. The memes were hilarious.  

[AngelaHunter]

I'm just picturing "G-Men" having Bonny and Clyde, Baby Face Nelson and Machine Gun Kelly, all obligingly lined up out in the open, unarmed and standing still in their line of fire. I guess they'd just use up all their ammo shooting buildings and windows too. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they'd do that, especially if one of those targets had come within seconds of brutally murdering a G-Man's son. Makes sense if you look at it that way, right TPTB?

[SnarkyTart]

56 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I'm just picturing "G-Men" having Bonny and Clyde, Baby Face Nelson and Machine Gun Kelly, all obligingly lined up out in the open, unarmed and standing still in their line of fire. I guess they'd just use up all their ammo shooting buildings and windows too. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they'd do that, especially if one of those targets had come within seconds of brutally murdering a G-Man's son. Makes sense if you look at it that way, right TPTB?

The only way I can make sense of it is if Rick's group believes there could be dozens or more Saviors lurking with assault rifles behind every window, all just waiting for a signal from Negan to overwhelm the group with superior numbers and firepower from the relative safety of the compound's windows.  It might be a better offensive strategy for Rick's group to blast away at the windows than to shoot Negan or his group, then make their escape before the walker horde overtakes the compound and finishes it off.  In that case, the only purpose for Rick's group to show up there at all was to offer the saviors a chance to surrender. Then again, we've probably given this more thought than the writers did, so there may be no logical sense to it at all.

[queenanne]

On 10/23/2017 at 8:21 AM, ghoulina said:

I probably should have rewatched last season, because I spent the first half of this episode trying to remember what happened. 

Was it me, or were there 3 different times going on? Present with the fight against Negan. Future - with the house and Judith being much older. And random moments of Rick in the woods looking like he was crying? Am I really losing my mind, or is this show being obtuse and confusing on purpose? 

What I really want to know is - why is Negan still alive? I don't want to hear anything about the comics or Jeffrey Dean Morgan. The sole purpose of ASZ, HT, and The Kingdom is to kill Negan. They pull up in their corrugated metal cars (that was kind of clever), and are fairly well protected. Negan saunters right out there, nothing but that dumbass bat in hand. He's standing RIGHT there. Clear line of sight. All those damn rifles you got, someone couldn't just put a round in his chest? Give me a fucking break. 

And then, when he's alone in the room with FPP. Gabriel had a gun. Again, Negan just had his bat. The minute you hear his voice, turn around and let 'er rip. Seriously. Gabriel advanced so much last season and now he's turning back for that simpering sycophant, Gregory? Give me a break. 

Also, why is pregnant Maggie and CHILD Enid allowed to go to the gun fight, but Michonne isn't? I guess she's protecting ASZ? But why not have Maggie and Carl do that? 

The ending irritated me, that's all I have to say. 

That's what I said!!

It literally makes no sense for Gabriel to have Negan dead to rights and not shoot his ass off, or at least his ear.  He also didn't appear to have his bat anywhere nearby during this speech.  *At least* the blocking and setup should indicate whatever is supposed to be appalling/paralyzing/anything-ing FPP from shooting Negan, including the highly likely possibility of including a gun muzzle touched to FPP's head by someone who's not Negan, or at the very least a snapping zombie inches away.  

[AngelaHunter]

15 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

  In that case, the only purpose for Rick's group to show up there at all was to offer the saviors a chance to surrender.

But what would "surrender" mean? They all promise to be nice people from now on and stop terrorizing and taxing  other settlements and even stealing their Beautyrests?  Is Rick  going to build a POW camp and keep the whole gang there or take Negan and his henchmen back to live in Alexandria in the cell Morgan built? They certainly didn't request surrender from the outlying guards they murdered in cold blood.  Wasting a thousand rounds of ammo -  the dire scarcity of which they've been carping about forever, to the point of hoarding a few spent shell casings so they can make bullets - shooting out all the upper windows has nothing to do with walkers, since they can't climb.  Or is Rick taking his "If the windows are intact, society is intact" a little too literally, thinking the Neganites will shrivel up and die if the windows break? Who needs windows in a place where it there are no mosquitos, it never gets cold (hard to tell with that one since Jesus wears a long leather coat while others are sweating in tanks tops) and rains once a year, and only when Rick is on the road and fangirls can admire the way his tee shirt is plastered to his body?

Did it ever occur to Daryl to ask his new BFF, Dwight, how many people at the Sanctuary would be glad to be rid of Negan - brutal dictators are mostly detested by the people they rule and Negan's brutality would shock the SS -  and how many would throw in with Rick's gang? Guess not.

15 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

Then again, we've probably given this more thought than the writers did, so there may be no logical sense to it at all

Could definitely be that. Or maybe there's something so complicated and so brilliant going on here that I just can't see it. Maybe tonight we'll all smack our foreheads at our obtuseness, yell, "I see the light!" as  everything makes sense and I'll have to eat humble pie (or acorns or dog or even turtle).