S25.E06: Week 5: Disney Night

[iMonrey]

I really thought a lot of the music was awful. The version of "Some day my prince will come," in particular, seemed way too slow for a waltz. And I'm torn about Disney night overall - I don't mind the costumes and the nostalgia, but the Disney "characters" up in the skybox or back in the red room kind of creep me out and you can tell a lot of the people are uncomfortable around them because they don't speak and it's weird pretending someone dressed up in a Donald Duck costume is the Donald Duck, y'know? 

And yeah - the thing with Kermit did bug me because Disney only recently acquired the Muppets but was not connected to them with "Rainbow Connection" was released. They were sort of going for a decade-by-decade thing there so it kind of felt like Disney stole the Muppet song. Pretty soon Disney is going to own everything so in the future they can use whatever movie they want whether it was a Disney movie at the time or not. I also thought the new song from Cocoa or Coco or whatever sounded awful.

I don't know what's happened to Mark Ballas but that's the third "pure" dance style in a row without any troupes, props or nonsense. What has this impostor done with the real Mark Ballas???

The thing about Drew and Frankie is that neither is naturally graceful or musical, but both have the performance skills and enthusiasm to sell it. That's gotten a lot of celebs pretty far in the past. Though I'm concerned now that Frankie isn't getting the votes. They typically don't throw a couple into the "jeopardy" spotlight for no reason.

Edited October 17, 2017 by iMonrey

[bealled]

Mark has been eliminated early in the past for going too far with his quirky styles. I remember him and Willow or Willa (from The Hunger Games) being a shock elimination and I think part of that had to do with him choreographing over the top routines each week with a lot of flashy backgrounds. I'm enjoying his choreography this season because he's throwing in his quirky touches but not distracting from Lindsey in the process. I do think this week and last week lend themselves more to pure choreography rather than some elaborate routine just because of most memorable year week being somber, and the song they received this week wouldn't go so well with anything but a pure dance. I'm sure he will have more of his unique routines once the song choice and theme permits it. Also I don't think Mark always just constantly does quirky routines. I feel like he and Paige, and he and Sadie had a mixture.

[thesupremediva1]

Jordan is the ringiest ringer to ever ringer. More than Nicole S., more than Meryl, more than Heather Morris. He is a ringer to the infinite power. I enjoy his dancing very much and he's a eloquent, likable guy with a massive future in front of him in any area of show biz. But I don't think I see any actual "learning" or growth. He's a dancer. Was, is, will be better. 

He could be a pro on this show next year and no one would bat an eyelash. 

Frankie was my favorite tonight. I'm ready to lose everyone but Frankie, Victoria, Lindsey, Drew, and Jordan. The rest are snoozers. Why is Nick Lachey still there?! 

I don't believe for a minute that Frankie was bottom 2. 

[LadyMustang65]

Count me in the "I love Disney night" crowd.  It's always fun and light-hearted, and that's always so enjoyable to watch.  And historically the judges have been in good moods for this week and tend to be less critical.  I don't care that Victoria may have started out with Charleston and been switched to Jazz.  Not the first time that's happened on the show.  We've had other couples who have had their music changed.  It happens.  No biggie.  I am also very confused by the criticism of Frankie for doing no lifts in the AT.  I saw two lifts - one at the beginning and one towards the end.  Granted, they were not "flashy" lifts, but they were definitely lifts as defined by DWTS - a move where the dancer has both feet off the ground that could not be performed solo.  We loved his dance; he did a great job.  I liked it even better the second time I watched it.  :)  In fact, the only dance we felt was less than good was Sasha's.  That whole dance fell kind of flat for us.  As others have noted, zero hip action from her, and it seemed like a lot of striking poses.  Not sorry to see her go - we never really connected with her on any level, and we are not generally fans of Gleb.  

Anyway, we are still thoroughly enjoying this season.  We like everyone left, including (surprisingly) TO (although we won't be sorry to see him go), and think they all have at least some ability.  So we are very much enjoying this season!!  

[laredhead]

I think Nick should have been the one to go last night.  Sasha was never going to make it to the finals, but I think she could have stayed another week.  I was impressed when she said she has lost 37 pounds since beginning rehearsals for the show.  The dress she wore last night showed off her newly slim figure.  I read that Drew said he also has lost weight and when he was standing next to his brother last week, you could tell that.  

I loved Emma's dress for the Rainbow Connection song.  I think Disney Week is my favorite.  I also don't think they should have an elimination on the week they do the most memorable year show.  Everyone is very emotional and it's a bit cruel to toss someone off after they have given it their all that night.  I know the votes are based on the previous week's performance, but I would like to see them make that the non-elimination week.

I hope Frankie wins and I wonder if Witney and Lindsey will still be best friends if Lindsey wins, lol. 

[Callaphera]

I just don't understand why the judges lie to us when we can see everything happening on our screens. "You were in perfect sync with each other!" No, no they weren't. "Not a mis-step!" Yes, there was. They do realize that we're watching the same thing, right? (Yes, I know, the angle from which they watch is different but they also have monitors set into their desk so don't give me that bullshit.)

In other news, could (Mark's) Lindsey continue to wear her hair like that instead of the stupid puffed up pigtails? She actually looked her age, looked classy, and came across as the 30 year old adult she is. 

I don't mind theme nights like Latin Night or something, but Disney Night is just an excuse for high scores to dances that don't always conform to the style but because they look or feel just like the characters/scene, they won't criticize and just bump the score up. God forbid anyone says anything bad on Disney night.  

[McManda]

1 hour ago, Andie1 said:

So did James get preferential treatment for not doing a Samba or Zendaya for not doing  a Rumba? Probably, but that did not bother the voters the way Victoria's disability bothers some. And to be fair there was some Charleston in that dance. 

I think there's a difference between getting preferential treatment because of physical limitations and getting assigned dances and happening to miss one or two styles. In a ten week season, with all the dance styles they have now, someone is bound to miss one or two. That's why, for example, James missed samba.

Giving Victoria a Charleston and then reneging on that style comes off as "tried but can't". Which, while I get her physical limitations prohibit her from doing a proper our good version of a dance, where does that stop? Should someone try a jive but because of bad cardiovascular heath get to switch from a jive because it's too fast paced? Should someone like Chris Kattan, who had mobility issues because of breaking his neck, get a pass because he can't extend or bend appropriately? The answer is no, they shouldn't and no, they didn't. 

Val should have adapted the dance to fit Victoria's limitations, if we're being fair. Others have slowed down jives or  performed their best and then given their limitations as explanations on why their best was lackluster and let the chips fall. Besides, if you can get high scores for non-dances.... what's the difference if you do a non-traditional dance but so out well? Derek was master of that. I'm sure Val would get a pass, too.

That's the issue I have with switching Victoria's style so publicly. 

[boyznkatz]

2 hours ago, bealled said:

I guess I just don't see a massive deal because they exchanged jazz for charleston. It's not one of the big ballroom or latin dances, and charleston is already used as a semi-jazz routine by the pros. Plus Nikki also did a jazz. It wasn't like everyone was assigned quickstep and jive but because it was questionable whether Victoria could do it, she was given contemporary. I highly doubt this is the first time the show has switched the style out either.

The problem is that "jazz" as defined by dwts is a free-for-all with no rules where the judges give ridiculous high scores to all the people they like. I remember some people getting dinged in the past for not doing a proper Charleston.

[vibeology]

37 minutes ago, McManda said:

Giving Victoria a Charleston and then reneging on that style comes off as "tried but can't". Which, while I get her physical limitations prohibit her from doing a proper our good version of a dance, where does that stop? Should someone try a jive but because of bad cardiovascular heath get to switch from a jive because it's too fast paced? Should someone like Chris Kattan, who had mobility issues because of breaking his neck, get a pass because he can't extend or bend appropriately? The answer is no, they shouldn't and no, they didn't. 

In terms of the first question, I think the answer is yes. If the show has a good reason to believe a contestant could have a heart attack trying to jive, then yes, switch their dance. Because I do not want someone to die trying to earn a tacky mirrorball trophy. And I think most people agree with that. Victoria cannot feel her feet. She could not do the Charleston and rather risk her injuring herself in trying, the show switched her dance. Good. I don't want to see someone get hurt.

And switching to jazz isn't a bonus for her. They've burned jazz now, creating a middling dance on a week where their scores were going to be high no matter what. It would have been smarter to save jazz for a different week when those extra point that seem to appear any time anyone does a jazz would have been more useful.

[friendperidot]

Quote

Technical question... I'm new here, and don't know all the rules.

When I click the heart flag (to "like" a post), sometimes a window pops up saying I'm not allowed by this user to like their post... WTFrig? There's an "ok" button to click to close the window. The window doesn't always close - and a couple of times it has frozen my system (which makes me hesitate to 'like' posts). Weirdest part? My "like" registers and the heart changes to include my "like". Colour me confused.

Do some posters have their account set so that they don't get notifications of a "like"? Might this be why I'm getting the pop-up window? Just curious.

Bliss, I think your questions got lost in the shuffle. To "like" a post, it's the heart, not the flag.

[Bliss]

8 minutes ago, friendperidot said:

Bliss, I think your questions got lost in the shuffle. To "like" a post, it's the heart, not the flag.

Thanks, friendperidot... I shouldn't have used the term flag - I actually click on the heart symbol. Just did it for your post and a window pops up telling me I'm not allowed to like the post. It's so weird, because the 'like' actually registers (the heart fills in, and the corresponding # changes).

This is what the pop-up window says: "You are not allowed to like content from this user." There's an "ok" inside a box to click. My issue is that when I click the ok, sometimes my system freezes. I think there's a glitch somewhere! Or maybe my computer is wacko.

[Pandorap]

It still boggles my mind that Victoria can dance that well at all while not being able to feel her feet!  With that being said, I was surprised at her high score.  I didn't think the dance warranted it.  Vanessa -meh.  Lindsey -I very much enjoyed her foxtrot.  Nick -I know he's not a great dancer but I really enjoyed his dance this episode.  Drew -finally, a dance he seemed to "fit".  I love the progress he continues to show.  Sasha -for me, I did not enjoy this Rumba.  It looked stiff and awkward.  (I was surprised that she got eliminated though, I thought it would have been Nick). Terrel -Meh.  I fast forwarded.  Frankie -I thought he did a great job.  For someone who has little to no dance experience I think he is doing great and, like Drew, I enjoy seeing his improvements.  If it wasn't for those two this season I would be so bored.  Jordon -he's good, I'll give him that but I forwarded through most of his dance because I knew He'd get high scores.  Boring.  Nikki -I actually forgot about her and had forwarded through her dance trying to get to the elimination before I realized it.  Didn't bother to go back.  Over all for this season I'm just hoping to start connecting more with some of the remaining dancers.  This season seems a little "off" for some reason?

[iMonrey]

Quote

 Jordon -he's good, I'll give him that but I forwarded through most of his dance because I knew He'd get high scores.  Boring.  

Yeah, he doesn't do anything for me either. I mean, I acknowledge that he's a fantastic dancer, but if this were the first time I ever watched this show and had no idea who anybody was, I wouldn't be able to tell who was the pro and who was the celebrity. I might as well just watch two pros do a performance. 

Plus, I never seem to get invested in any of the Disney kids anyway. {shrugs}

[friendperidot]

Bliss, I don't understand what the problem is, maybe one of the mods can help you. I did get notification of your like and your comment, if that helps.

[Toonces464]

16 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

They used to announce each couple that safe but with the time constraint at the end they only have time to say the jeopardy couples. until they get less couples they'll do it this way

It's a product of not having a Tuesday results show anymore. They used to be able to spread the safe/in jeopardy couples out over the course of an hour.

15 hours ago, Callaphera said:

After the bit with Maks and Grumpy Dwarf, and the oddly edited package (no seriously, were they even in the same zip code in some of that?), and the "subtle" "digs" from one of the judges about how when they work together as a team or whatever the hell it was they were blathering about, I'm calling it: there's no actual tension between Maks and Vanessa. It's manufactured crap to drum up interest in the show.

It just seems a little too on the nose now, y'know?

Maks can't act to save his life and the dude is miserable. He can't even hide the fact that he's miserable. I don't think it's manufactured at all.

3 hours ago, Bliss said:

Maks and Vanessa... just had a thought about these two. There is obviously something going on... it's anyone's guess what that 'something' is. Could be some sort of personality clash, with Vanessa being a strong-willed woman. Could be a professional challenge with the two couples in competition with each other. It's obviously challenging for all of them, having wee ones at home.

Maks has had three very strong-willed women for partners in Mel B, Erin and Kirstie and he adored all of them. I think he wants no part of the married couple thing and never did, while it seems to be Vanessa's entire focus of being on the show.

[Callaphera]

2 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

Maks can't act to save his life and the dude is miserable. He can't even hide the fact that he's miserable. I don't think it's manufactured at all.

By manufactured, I don't mean that they might not get along. They might rub each other the wrong way for all we know. But I feel like the show is completely exploiting that and making it out to be more than just a "Eh, we're not friends, we have to work together, so grit your teeth and get through it", which is what it seems to me. Yeah, Maks looks miserable but we don't necessarily know that it 100% has to do with Vanessa. Some of his miserableness could be because the show keeps hammering away at these sly digs and oblique references to working together in a partnership so that two can become one or some other fresh bullshit like that. 

It's becoming the sideshow of the usual circus that Dancing with the Stars is. "Come and see the warring couple! Look at how they won't look at each other! Listen as we wink-wink-nudge-nudge them about it!" Dance monkeys, dance. 

[marykat71702]

15 hours ago, Uke said:

What's infuriating about this is that we know the "judges" see all the dances during dress rehearsal or one of the run-throughs before showtime so they can plan their ad-libs.  So they know if an earlier dance is better than later dances but I guess to maintain the charade they start the scoring low and let it build throughout the show. 

Is this right? I thought I had read somewhere that they have "fill-in" judges for the dress rehearsals, and that the actual judges are seeing the dance for the first time during the live performance.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Bliss said:

Thanks, friendperidot... I shouldn't have used the term flag - I actually click on the heart symbol. Just did it for your post and a window pops up telling me I'm not allowed to like the post. It's so weird, because the 'like' actually registers (the heart fills in, and the corresponding # changes).

This is what the pop-up window says: "You are not allowed to like content from this user." There's an "ok" inside a box to click. My issue is that when I click the ok, sometimes my system freezes. I think there's a glitch somewhere! Or maybe my computer is wacko.

The same thing happens to me sometimes, too. You'd probably be better off taking this to the Bugs board.

Edited October 17, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Morrigan]

Here's a post from someone who was at the British version of DWTS - Strictly Come Dancing - about whether the judges have seen the dances:

"The judges put their scores in electronically immediately after the dances. I've seen it live sitting next to Bruno. The paddles are purely theatre tbh. Agree the clauditorium is simply time filling as are the vt's so sets cameras and performers can be moved and the judges get reminded of the one liners they will use for the next dancers. (Yes it's partly scripted, they have a dress rehearsal earlier so they know what to expect. Not withstanding unexpected bits which might occur in the live show of course) so they have to keep them."

BTW, the "clauditorium" is their version of Erin interviewing the couples backstage right after the dance.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Morrigan

[calipiano81]

3 hours ago, bealled said:

Mark has been eliminated early in the past for going too far with his quirky styles. I remember him and Willow or Willa (from The Hunger Games) being a shock elimination and I think part of that had to do with him choreographing over the top routines each week with a lot of flashy backgrounds. I'm enjoying his choreography this season because he's throwing in his quirky touches but not distracting from Lindsey in the process. I do think this week and last week lend themselves more to pure choreography rather than some elaborate routine just because of most memorable year week being somber, and the song they received this week wouldn't go so well with anything but a pure dance. I'm sure he will have more of his unique routines once the song choice and theme permits it. Also I don't think Mark always just constantly does quirky routines. I feel like he and Paige, and he and Sadie had a mixture.

I love Mark's creativity, but I also love when he does his "pure" dances, because they really show off his strong ballroom pedigree.

However, Mark's been quite a "good boy" so far this season, and I hope to see him start pulling out all the stops :P

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, Callaphera said:

It's becoming the sideshow of the usual circus that Dancing with the Stars is. "Come and see the warring couple! Look at how they won't look at each other! Listen as we wink-wink-nudge-nudge them about it!" Dance monkeys, dance. 

Every season Maks is on is pretty much like that --- some kind of drama designed to get peoples' attention. I'm not so sure it's the show orchestrating that and not Maks, since he'll do pretty much anything to keep his name in the tabloids. But I think it's backfiring on him because more and more people seem to be getting fed up with him and all his drama. And in this case it's not hurting Vanessa either since when was the last time you saw her name in the tabloids before DWTS?

[calipiano81]

Speaking of Mark, does the music used in this scene sound the same/similar to the music used for Frankie and Witney's A Tango?

 

[crowceilidh]

Thank you for sharing that clip.  I have no idea what it's from, but the dance is hilarious and Mark is a extremely camp.  I was a fan of Joey for a while in his season.  I love how obvious it is that Mark is doing all the hard stuff and Joey is just the stripper pole he's hanging off.

[McManda]

2 minutes ago, crowceilidh said:

I have no idea what it's from, but the dance is hilarious and Mark is a extremely camp.

It's from the ABC Family show "Melissa and Joey", also starring Melissa Joan Hart.

The music is similar, but not the same, I don't think. IMO both were appropriate for Argentine tango, though!

[gohawks]

21 hours ago, spanana said:

Last I'll say on it since we are getting off topic, but this is also very subjective. I personally don't think James got 2x the pimpage of Laurie.  The judges and everyone loved all over Laurie as the second coming as well, so I think the pimpage was a lot more even than many think.  However James needed more just by virtue of many had never heard of the guy whereas most already knew Laurie's name coming straight off the Olympics.  Laurie was the frontrunner from the day the cast was announced and there was never a doubt in my mind she was winning.  I also think there is a difference between judges pimping and public perception.  I can go also go on the internet and find hatred of anyone and everyone that has ever been on DWTS, usually at the hands of whoever their main competition was that season.  Sure, I'm sure there was some criticism of Laurie.  But in their seasons I could also go online and find criticism of Alfonso or Riker or Corbin or any number of male "ringers".  Or last season I could find plenty of hatred of Rashad and David, generally at the hands of Normani's fans.  Normani got plenty of hate too, no denying that, but I'm not going to pretend I didn't see Rashad and David being called every name in the book as well.  It all depends on where you look.

Im going to call BS on this. Those two men were called boring and rhthymless, but  it di8dnot approach  Normani levels. It just  did not. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, laredhead said:

I think Nick should have been the one to go last night.  Sasha was never going to make it to the finals, but I think she could have stayed another week.  I was impressed when she said she has lost 37 pounds since beginning rehearsals for the show.  The dress she wore last night showed off her newly slim figure.  

I thought the other thing that made a difference in her appearance last night was that she was finally given a costume that wasn't meant to hide her body or flatter a different body type. Most of the costumes they have put her in were unnecessarily bad. There is a way to costume women who are bigger than a size 0 and make them look good. 

7 hours ago, bealled said:

I guess I just don't see a massive deal because they exchanged jazz for charleston. It's not one of the big ballroom or latin dances, and charleston is already used as a semi-jazz routine by the pros. Plus Nikki also did a jazz. It wasn't like everyone was assigned quickstep and jive but because it was questionable whether Victoria could do it, she was given contemporary. I highly doubt this is the first time the show has switched the style out either.

My issue isn't that they switched her style (which is an entirely different debate).  It's that the dance they did was NOT jazz. Not by a long shot. If you went to a jazz dance class anywhere (fancy private dance studio, the local rec center/YMCA, a performing arts school, etc), you would be taught nothing that was in that routine because it wasn't jazz. It was a bunch of different ballroom stuff thrown together. What Val did was the equivalent of being assigned a waltz and doing the samba. 

To put it another way, if you showed that routine to 100 dancers and asked them to tell you what dance style it was, not one would say it was jazz. If the judges are going to ding other people for not having ENOUGH (insert assigned dance style) content then Val should have received a huge admonition for not showing a single bit of jazz in the entire 90 second routine. 

I know that the choreography is never the celeb's fault but since the judges penalize couples for doing lifts or not having enough proper dance content, this dance should have been knocked down for having absolutely no jazz whatsoever. 

[Chit Chat]

Quote

I don't know what's happened to Mark Ballas but that's the third "pure" dance style in a row without any troupes, props or nonsense. What has this impostor done with the real Mark Ballas???

I think some of them have finally figured out that Len loves to see "proper" dance routines (holds, etc.)  I like Disney night.  Overall I thought it was pretty good.  I especially love Frankie Muniz's love and enthusiasm for ballroom dancing!  He's a joy to watch.  I loved how he got into character for being a pirate.   So far I'm liking this season.  As usual though, there's 3 or 4 of them that I fast forward through.  I don't dislike some of them,  I just don't care since I have no clue who they are, and some of them haven't won me over in the personality department!  

[spanana]

51 minutes ago, gohawks said:

Im going to call BS on this. Those two men were called boring and rhthymless, but  it di8dnot approach  Normani levels. It just  did not. 

Those are not remotely the comments I was talking about.  I'm not talking about what they were called on sites like here.  I'm talking about the names and such they were called by some of Normani's fans in their outrage over her not getting the reception/comments/top score every week they wanted.  Same way Rashad or David fans were probably being nasty towards Normani. You want to find people acting like petulant children and engaging in name calling? Just find the fans of their biggest competition and read away.

I'm not remotely arguing that Normani didn't get a lot of hate and such.  Or that she didn't get more than the guys. I'm just arguing that it isn't as one sided on DWTS as people tend to think.  I roll my eyes when I read certain fans talking about how their person got so much hate when I see them being just as hateful towards other contestants in retaliation.

Quote

By manufactured, I don't mean that they might not get along. They might rub each other the wrong way for all we know. But I feel like the show is completely exploiting that and making it out to be more than just a "Eh, we're not friends, we have to work together, so grit your teeth and get through it", which is what it seems to me. Yeah, Maks looks miserable but we don't necessarily know that it 100% has to do with Vanessa. Some of his miserableness could be because the show keeps hammering away at these sly digs and oblique references to working together in a partnership so that two can become one or some other fresh bullshit like that. 

It's becoming the sideshow of the usual circus that Dancing with the Stars is. "Come and see the warring couple! Look at how they won't look at each other! Listen as we wink-wink-nudge-nudge them about it!" Dance monkeys, dance. 

What is interesting about it though is for all of the Vanessa/Maks hate each other drama, we haven't seen even a second of footage of them fighting. Which makes no sense.  If the show wants the drama of the whole spectacle, then why not give us the actual drama from rehearsals? I don't think it isn't happening.  We actually haven't been given any footage as yet this season of any celeb/pro fighting.  There might have been a few bad attitude moments from TO early on, but otherwise we have been light on the drama.  What is the point of leaking stuff about Vanessa/Maks to the tabs if you aren't going to go there on the show? Most casual viewers don't follow anything DWTS that isn't on the show so I'd argue most viewers of the show probably don't even know about the rumors.

Edited October 18, 2017 by spanana

[boyznkatz]

Wow people must have no lives to hate someone on a silly dance show. I can see calling someone boring or annoying or a crap dancer, but how do people hate someone they don't even know.

[Callaphera]

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

Wow people must have no lives to hate someone on a silly dance show. I can see calling someone boring or annoying or a crap dancer, but how do people hate someone they don't even know.

I think you're overestimating the word hate when it comes to television. Hate is a strong word but it's tossed around a lot in regards to TV.

For the most part, people identify with celebrities - especially when they're not playing a role and appearing as "themselves" (those quotation marks are a whole 'nother debate). It's what drives the whole tabloid business. On a show like this, the packages and the interviews are designed as a window into the celebrity's life. Who they are, what they like, how charming they are, what a great sense of humour they have... things that are all (for example) Frankie Muniz and not Malcolm from Malcolm in the Middle. We feel that we're getting to know them on a personal level. But there's still that barrier between us and them that makes it impossible to truly connect with someone the way two people can in real life, face to face. As such, they're still kind of impersonal characters - even though we're getting all this "up close and personal" stuff - and it's a lot easier to say that you hate someone or love someone when there's still that lack of connection/realness/whatever you want to call it.

I mean, I say that I hate people on TV all the time. I basically spent a whole summer saying how much I hated everyone on this season of Big Brother. But I don't actually hate them. There are very few people in the world that I could say I truly and wholly hate with every fiber of my being. But a celebrity on a show like Dancing with the Stars? Oh, I can hate someone. I can hate someone to the moon and back but it doesn't actually mean that I hate them. TV hate and true hate are two different things.

Sadly, there's no one I hate this year on Dancing with the Stars. (Mark's) Lindsey comes the closest, I guess. I find her never-ending peppy, quirky, cheerfulness and innocence to be completely manufactured. I'm indifferent to some people, I like some more than others, and one has charmed me more than I expected. I'm actually disappointed that there's no one I hate. Because God knows I love to hate people on TV. 

[Sd601]

Rewatching a bit now. Jordan's intro package made me laugh: Lindsay's exclamation, "I don't know geography!" Also when Frankie corrected Witney with 102 dalmatins, she turns to a camera (held by Lindsay) and mouths, "no, it's 101." Oh these girls. Head shake.

[tessaforever]

On 10/16/2017 at 9:10 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I thought Vanessa/Maks' dance was good, but I LOL'd when Nick's dance ended and the shot cut to a lonely Vanessa. I guess Maks took off. 

What really bothered me was that by leaving Vanessa alone up in the skybox, it meant that Maks wasn't there FOR HIS OWN WIFE after her dance. He really is a selfish pig. He didn't even have to stand next to Vanessa if he didn't want to. Ugh. 

On 10/16/2017 at 9:47 PM, Toonces464 said:

I noticed the same. In fact, I thought it was a lot of camera tricks and they were never actually in the room together.

For sure, they weren't anywhere near each other, even when the "real" Maks came into the room at the end. 

On 10/16/2017 at 10:33 PM, LotusFlower said:

Same thought.  Actually I don't think they had ANY interaction in the package.  You know things are bad when a cartoon has to be produced to put together a rehearsal package.  

Maybe Maks doesn't show up at all.  Maybe Alan rehearses with Vanessa, and Maks just waltzes in* on game day.

* see what I did there?   :)

I thought the same! I can't even picture them rehearsing together at this point. 

12 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

As annoying as the Lacheys are, I think it's grossly unfair that they set up Vanessa to be eliminated. No way should she be five points below everyone else.

I keep thinking that a) imagine how much better she would be doing (performance-wise and scoring-wise) if she were with someone who treated her with respect regardless of whether he "liked" her or not; and b) this is a bad season for this kind of partner implosion, because there everyone else seems to be really clicking and happy to be working together. 

However, it is very refreshing that there are no showmances! Yay! Hopefully never again!

Am I weird or bad that I don't get what all the Disney love is about? And I say that as someone who has been to Disneyworld 5 times (3 as a kid) and seen every movie. I just don't get what is so "magical" about all of it. It's just entertainment like any other entertainment. 

[Mbeaker]

11 hours ago, bealled said:

I highly doubt this is the first time the show has switched the style out either.

It's not, which is why I'm surprised at the reaction on here. Carlos and Witney's Charleston trio (featuring Karina) was initially a Samba until it got switched out, presumably because Samba was too difficult for Carlos. There have been more examples in the past, but I'm blanking on names. If able-bodied contestants receive such allowances, though I don't think they should, I have no problem when someone like Victoria gets a pass.  

[MsJamieDornan]

11 hours ago, Former Nun said:

And what did Maks do?   Not everyone is in Vanessa's corner.

Then what did he apologize for?   And, she showed up, he didn't !

[Uke]

7 hours ago, marykat71702 said:

Is this right? I thought I had read somewhere that they have "fill-in" judges for the dress rehearsals, and that the actual judges are seeing the dance for the first time during the live performance.

IIRC it was Maria M. (S14) that confirmed what everyone suspected that the judges are on the lot during pre-show and dress rehearsals.  Yes, "fill-in" judges are used at the judging table but the judges at their trailers get a live feed via some sort of closed circuit tv system.  

[LotusFlower]

24 minutes ago, Uke said:

IIRC it was Maria M. (S14) that confirmed what everyone suspected that the judges are on the lot during pre-show and dress rehearsals.  Yes, "fill-in" judges are used at the judging table but the judges at their trailers get a live feed via some sort of closed circuit tv system.  

Really?  I never knew that, but it makes sense.   I've always wondered how the judges score the dances so quickly, and how prepared they seem with their critiques, and even their quips and one-liners.  

[Andie1]

11 hours ago, Pandorap said:

Jordon -he's good, I'll give him that but I forwarded through most of his dance because I knew He'd get high scores.  Boring. 

I never find good dancing boring.  I find some dances tedious who hide behind troupe members or costumes boring, but I never find dance itself boring. The problem I find is that some of these "dark horses" have so little dance content in their routines that their pros do all the heavy lifting giving texture to the piece that it isn't about the dancing at all.   When someone can really dance, that for me is joyous.  

Edited October 18, 2017 by Andie1

[Andie1]

12 hours ago, McManda said:

Val should have adapted the dance to fit Victoria's limitations, if we're being fair.

As much as Charleston is a style of dance, it's a social dance much like the Lindy and Swing and these dances all came out of the Jazz age. So in essence they are social Jazz dances.  So Victoria did a bit of Lindy, a bit of Charleston, a bit of broadway it wasn't formal Jazz.  

Anyway imho Charleston has a twizzle and distinct bounce that someone who can't feel their feet would have a difficult time doing, even though we saw a little of it while arm and arm with Val, there's no way she could do a whole dance of that, yes there are some in hold movement, but out of hold there are balance issues and she doesn't wear any prosthetics to help with balance or bounce.  Throughout the dance she held on to items or Val for balance. 

The biggest hurdle that Victoria has is that she doesn't "look" disabled, so people have a hard time believing she requires modifications, they just think her dancing isn't good enough compared to the others on the show.  People get turned off by constantly being told that she is disabled. There is also Val, who is a polarizing pro.  But for me when the contestant takes the stage, I focus on them. I forget about how I feel about the pro and I try to assess what I see with the information I'm given about their condition. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Andie1

[Andie1]

7 hours ago, spanana said:

What is interesting about it though is for all of the Vanessa/Maks hate each other drama, we haven't seen even a second of footage of them fighting. Which makes no sense.  If the show wants the drama of the whole spectacle, then why not give us the actual drama from rehearsals? I don't think it isn't happening.  We actually haven't been given any footage as yet this season of any celeb/pro fighting.  There might have been a few bad attitude moments from TO early on, but otherwise we have been light on the drama.  What is the point of leaking stuff about Vanessa/Maks to the tabs if you aren't going to go there on the show? Most casual viewers don't follow anything DWTS that isn't on the show so I'd argue most viewers of the show probably don't even know about the rumors.

I think the show was trying to make their 25th season as drama free as possible, so what might have been in the past drama to exploit, they are just not going there anymore. So even if there were knock down drag outs like the Hope Solo fiasco in the past, maybe the show doesn't think it's worth it to broadcast that kind of publicity anymore.  Also I've noticed the show has sort of dropped the raunch, both in the bump and grind troupe dances and the contestants with no showmances or torrid hook ups to report.   Perhaps they wanted to clean up the image a little especially if they're going to be introducing a Juniors show next year. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Andie1

[Andie1]

17 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

She wouldn't be if they scored correctly, but you never know with the producer shenanigans.

I think she was scored correctly.  It's just that they massively over scored Frankie. 

[Andie1]

17 hours ago, spanana said:

I think the flip side is the ridiculousness of people expecting celebs who have never danced a day in their lives to come in and be as good as the ringers or people with actual dance experience over the course of 12 weeks.  No, Frankie is not going to gain the years of dance training Jordan has

Of course Frankie is at a beginner level, but if we're comparing apples to apples Rashad commanded his Argentine Tango. In fact it was a Trio that he handled.  He didn't plod around the dance floor, he led two women,  and even with his big feet he moved with fluidity and finesse. The lifts were a dynamic highlight, probably some of the best on the show. Frankie is no Rashad. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Andie1

[bealled]

2 hours ago, Andie1 said:

Of course Frankie is at a beginner level, but if we're comparing apples to apples Rashad commanded his Argentine Tango. In fact it was a Trio that he handled.  He didn't plod around the dance floor, he led two women,  and even with his big feet he moved with fluidity and finesse. The lifts were a dynamic highlight, probably some of the best on the show. Frankie is no Rashad. 

 

I feel like you are focusing too much on lifts. Frankie is a much smaller guy compared to Rashad and has numerous health issues and back problems. Witney is small, but so is Frankie. I think he is like 5'5 and he has never been an athlete in the physical sense (I guess he did race cars). Frankie really does not look like a male contestant who would be comfortable lifting his partner and tossing her around. A lot of the most impressive lifts on the show done by male celebs are usually by the very big athletes who have the strength to easily handle the pro. Plus sometimes these pros focus too much on flashy lifts rather than the actual dance, and sometimes the pros try to incorporate lifts that look bad if not done perfectly. Even last season David faltered on a lift with Lindsay, and David is a much bigger guy than Frankie and a pro athlete.

I think it is nice there has been no showmance this season. Last season with Bonner and Sharna was very annoying. I think they are having less pros who can do a showmance since most are married. Although I know Gleb has had his showmances while married, but I'm glad most of the other married pros don't tend to have any showmance. It seems like Sharna is the show's go to for having a showmance, which stinks because I like Sharna and hate when they make that her and her celebs story.

[Andie1]

2 minutes ago, bealled said:

feel like you are focusing too much on lifts. Frankie is a much smaller guy compared to Rashad and has numerous health issues and back problems.

The Argentine Tango on this show is known for innovative lifts, and Rashad had great ones,  but I'm more interested in the movement, as a big guy Rashad has his own problems, but he had a fluidity that was event on his contemporary and he carried that through the competition. I feel Frankie is quite stiff by comparison. 

Dancewise neither Rashad or Frankie are comparable to Jordan who has training, and yet Jordan is small, has a bunch of injuries including a significant shoulder injury  from his time as a gymnast, but yet he's able to lift Lindsay (whose 5' 6''frame is probably same height as Jordan in heels )with ease.   

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

The Argentine Tango on this show is known for innovative lifts, and Rashad had great ones,  but I'm more interested in the movement, as a big guy Rashad has his own problems, but he had a fluidity that was event on his contemporary and he carried that through the competition. I feel Frankie is quite stiff by comparison. 

Dancewise neither Rashad or Frankie are comparable to Jordan who has training, and yet Jordan is small, has a bunch of injuries including a significant shoulder injury  from his time as a gymnast, but yet he's able to lift Lindsay (whose 5' 6''frame is probably same height as Jordan in heels )with ease.   

Honestly, I didn't even notice the lack of a flashy lift in Frankie's AT dance. I thought Witney compensated well with the other AT movements. And, I mean, Frankie may not have lifted Witney up during the dance, but she did have both feet off the floor one or twice during the dance, so it's not a traditional lift, but it's close enough to meet the requirements.

I really don't need a lift to fulfill a requirement. Sometimes, I feel the lifts are unnecessary and just there to say "Hey, look what I can do!" For me, I like the lifts, but they often feel like a show off move, so if a contestant doesn't do a lift, especially one of Frankie's stature and height, then I won't complain if he can do other things to compensate for the lack of lifts.

As for people like Jordan, he may be shorter, but he has a very lean figure, which I find does allow for a better lift. Some people can't do the lifts. I'd rather they didn't try and make fools of themselves, like David Ross last season. Why push something if it's going to look utterly stupid AND dock points in the end? Dancers are always compensating for their weaknesses. They don't want to look bad; they want to look good, so they won't do something that they know they can't do well. And these pros want their celebs to look good, so of course they'll focus on their strengths, rather than their weaknesses where possible.

(Now, if only this above point would be given to Maks about his stupid jazz routines!). 

I suspect Witney MIGHT try to give Frankie a lift to try for the finale, though. That's also when Carrie Ann tends to not dock the lifts either (I mean....she also doesn't dock the lifts when she has a hard on for the male contestant or pro, from what I've seen). 

[Andie1]

14 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Honestly, I didn't even notice the lack of a flashy lift in Frankie's AT dance. I thought Witney compensated well with the other AT movements. And, I mean, Frankie may not have lifted Witney up during the dance, but she did have both feet off the floor one or twice during the dance,

And yeah, it's not about the lifts but the quality of movement.  Other AT movement wasn't good.  He plodded around the dance floor, he needed to lift his back and keep his shoulders down, the engauchos were not sharp and precise, and the ending was a lunch bag letdown. He puts an arm up...whoopee.  It needed some dynamics to be a good AT.  James Hinchcliffe who had a big old car crash and flatlined did a handstand. He's a small guy who found ways to make a dance memorable. It's not dressing up like a little kid's Hallowe'en pirate because he's just going to be compared to the guy who did it far better.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Andie1

[Pandorap]

5 hours ago, Andie1 said:

I never find good dancing boring.  I find some dances tedious who hide behind troupe members or costumes boring, but I never find dance itself boring. The problem I find is that some of these "dark horses" have so little dance content in their routines that their pros do all the heavy lifting giving texture to the piece that it isn't about the dancing at all.   When someone can really dance, that for me is joyous.  

I guess "boring" is the wrong word, because I do like to watch good dancing.  What I meant to convey is that for me, in the context of watching this show, I know that Jordon would dance a good dance and get good scores and not get voted off.  I don't watch this show for the fantastic dance (although I enjoy it when I see it), I watch it to see if the people I like do well, do poorly, or stay or go.

[Andie1]

24 minutes ago, Pandorap said:

I guess "boring" is the wrong word, because I do like to watch good dancing.  What I meant to convey is that for me, in the context of watching this show, I know that Jordon would dance a good dance and get good scores and not get voted off.  I don't watch this show for the fantastic dance (although I enjoy it when I see it), I watch it to see if the people I like do well, do poorly, or stay or go.

But the thing is good dancers have been voted off for doing great dancing because people think they're safe.

40 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

As for people like Jordan, he may be shorter, but he has a very lean figure, which I find does allow for a better lift. Some people can't do the lifts.

huh? People need to know how to lift, there's actually technique that goes into lifts.  It doesn't matter the size.  My point was Jordan has a bunch of injuries he's working though but you'd never know it.  And he's relatively small but he had no trouble with Lindsay on the Contemporary.  If you can't do a lift find some other trick that will be an exclamation point to a dance, not just sticking your arm up.  It felt so disjointed, not even a passionate embrace of Witney.  I thought it was a strange way to end it, almost as if they bagged their planned ending.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Andie1

[Former Nun]

34 minutes ago, Pandorap said:

I don't watch this show for the fantastic dance (although I enjoy it when I see it), I watch it to see if the people I like do well, do poorly, or stay or go.

I DO watch for the "fantastic dance," and all dances choreographed and performed well.  I don't vote and I generally don't care who stays or goes...but I'm well out of DWTS' demographic.

P.S.  I generally fast-forward through all the stories and rehearsals.  Two hours is just too long for this show.

[boyznkatz]

10 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I think you're overestimating the word hate when it comes to television. Hate is a strong word but it's tossed around a lot in regards to TV.

For the most part, people identify with celebrities - especially when they're not playing a role and appearing as "themselves" (those quotation marks are a whole 'nother debate). It's what drives the whole tabloid business. On a show like this, the packages and the interviews are designed as a window into the celebrity's life. Who they are, what they like, how charming they are, what a great sense of humour they have... things that are all (for example) Frankie Muniz and not Malcolm from Malcolm in the Middle. We feel that we're getting to know them on a personal level. But there's still that barrier between us and them that makes it impossible to truly connect with someone the way two people can in real life, face to face. As such, they're still kind of impersonal characters - even though we're getting all this "up close and personal" stuff - and it's a lot easier to say that you hate someone or love someone when there's still that lack of connection/realness/whatever you want to call it.

I mean, I say that I hate people on TV all the time. I basically spent a whole summer saying how much I hated everyone on this season of Big Brother. But I don't actually hate them. There are very few people in the world that I could say I truly and wholly hate with every fiber of my being. But a celebrity on a show like Dancing with the Stars? Oh, I can hate someone. I can hate someone to the moon and back but it doesn't actually mean that I hate them. TV hate and true hate are two different things.

Sadly, there's no one I hate this year on Dancing with the Stars. (Mark's) Lindsey comes the closest, I guess. I find her never-ending peppy, quirky, cheerfulness and innocence to be completely manufactured. I'm indifferent to some people, I like some more than others, and one has charmed me more than I expected. I'm actually disappointed that there's no one I hate. Because God knows I love to hate people on TV. 

Yes I was referring to people who get on social media and post nasty notes to people. That really happens. I totally get "hating" someone on TV but that is harmless.

[tessaforever]

Some things I thought of later...

Victoria never wears normal dance shoes. I understand that the Steamboat Willie dance needed Minnie-like shoes, but I've noticed it in her other dances too. For sure there have been contestants in the past that couldn't wear them, because of injury or balance reasons. It's just that I notice that the high-heeled dance shoes give the women a longer line, a better shape to the leg, and look more elegant (there's probably other things too but I'm not a dancer). So I always feel that it ends up detracting from the dance and the look of the dance. YMMV. 

Oh, and I thought it was cute that Jordan sang the song from Moana - since it was also written by Lin-Manual Miranda :)