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S04.E04: A Dark Knight: The Demon's Head

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Bruce Wayne puts the lives of Gotham Natural History Museum historian Niles Winthrop and his grandson, Alex, in danger in an attempt to uncover the meaning behind his prized knife from the auction. Meanwhile, Ra's Al Ghul proves he'll take deadly measures to achieve what he wants. Sofia Falcone is on a mission to win back Gotham from Penguin.

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OMG, he killed Alex. I hate Ra's! I always considered Alexander Siddig to be handsome, but not so much as Ra's, he is way too creepy and evil. Good job, Gotham!

Poor Bruce. I really liked Bruce's scenes with Alex. He has never gotten a chance to really be a child or have normal relationships with other children. I love belligerent Alfred. 

I was distracted in all the James and Bruce scenes by the fact that David is now taller than Ben. Wild. The man dog going through the window after the bone was pure parody.

I like the black police woman, but hate that she seems to be nothing, but James' lackey.

 Zsasz jamming to Ed's rap was hilarious, torturing the two black homeless guys not so much. Penguin is so ridiculously evil that I hope that Sofia crushes him into dust.

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Dang. Poor Alex. He did not deserve this. That was kind of hard to watch :(.

Gotham always has to off the interesting characters after 1 episode. :/ i still miss raptor hand girl.

Ra's in that cheesy disguise outfit thing (or whatever that was supposed to be) gave me indiana jones vibes for some reason. I'm surprised he didn't tell jim that the knife belonged in a museum. A sociopath indeed. My gosh, i can't keep thinking about poor Alex. Uurghh.

Jim was dumb for giving ra's valuable info and then alfred mucke it up even more by coming in and causing a scuffle, letting ra's escape.

Bruce. Bruce. I don't know what to say. I know the knife is important...but you let alex die. :(

Babs looks better with the slicked back hair instead of when it looks like a mop.

She's gonna have some stiff competition now that sofia's here. She's playing everyone like a fiddle. I'll be okay with the jim romance thing if it's sofia just using jim. Please don't have her actually fall for him. I vote for Sofia to be the new queen of gotham.

Victor was precious as always, and it was good to see Other Victor as well!

Honestly the ed/oswald stuff was the least interesting part of the episode this time. Rip those rapping riddle guys. :(

Anubis was freaky with that gollum impression. Eeek.

Good episode overall. Ben did a good job writing. Based on this he's a much better writer than director. I'd be down for him writing more episodes if they kept this quality.

Definitely the best episode of the season so far.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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So is this what they meant by "in bed with the mob?"

Another Barbara Keen sighting.  (Yes I will mention every episode she is in because I think every episode she is in is just awesome and I am loving her storyline this season).

I was actually surprised he didn't hand over the knife but then if he did we wouldn't have guilt ridden Bruce and well we need Bruce to be all Guilt Ridden now don't we?

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This season is aptly named "Dark Knight." The show is doing a great job showing Bruce's transition into the Dark Knight. 

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Poor Alex! Poor Bruce! This is going to haunt him for a long time. On any other show, I wouldn't be worried about a kid getting his throat slit, but on this show? They dont play around. Alexander Siddig is an awesome Ra`s. Scary and sociopathic, but engaging and classy. 

You can see Bruce getting closer and closer to being the Dark Knight. 

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I laughed so hard at penguins reaction to Eds crappy riddle. "YOUR JUST DESCRIBING HUMAN BEHAVIOR!!!" Also loved Victor rocking out to the rap song, and his confusion about being told to "get Victor". "The other Victor." 

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More craziness . . . and thanks to the schedules of CW and Fox, we get Gotham and Arrow back-to-back.

Poor Ed. Poor stupid, stupid Ed. Oswald letting him win was the absolute worst thing he could done. It would've have been funnier if Oswald deciphered the clues based on something different. For imstance: why the rapping messengers? Funny to see Zsasz groove on that.

Bruce is an idiot. I get that he's just starting out, but didn't he figure than he'd put at least one life in danger? And that would've been before Young Indiana Jones got involved. On the bright side, Alfred knows the best way to hurt Ra's: going right up and punching him. Never change, Alfred!

Anubis the Dog Man. Why not? Jim grabbing his bone and chucking it through a (surprisingly weak) window? Why not??

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So "Gotham" slits a child's throat on Network tv in the 8 PM slot?

 

Umm, well done?

 

God I love this freaking trainwreck of a tv show. I really, really do.

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I'm not gonna lie, Anubis, the dog-man, freaked me the hell out.  I'm serious, every time he appeared I nearly jumped out of my skin.

This was a wild ride of an episode. Kudos to Ben McKenzie. It was creepy, and dark, with great character beats from Bruce Wayne putting the dark in Dark Knight, to the love/hate/murder/freeze soap opera of Penguin and Ed, to Zsasz jamming to Riddler's raps and whispering "I'm going to stab you" to Sofia. I didn't find her all that interesting last episode,  but she was dark and manipulative here. The only sour note was the inevitable hook up at the end. I'M OVER YOUR LOVE LIFE JIM.

And then there's Alexander Siddig. His Ra's al Ghul was mad and other worldy and absolutely terrifying. There were moments when I looked in his eyes and he didn't seem quite human. I remember you as Dr. Bashir, Siddig, you're not  suppose to scare me. I hope the producers of Arrow were watching him so they can hang their heads in well-deserved shame.

Please write more, Ben. You get the macabre insanity of Gotham perfectly.

Also, damn! Bruce is taller than Jim. I hadn't really noticed it before.

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Okay, Jim getting rid of Dog Boy by throwing a bone out the window was the stupidest/funniest thing I’ve seen in a while.

Jim was still pretty stupid (hello, Sofia), but not as annoyingly stupid as he usually is. BM definitely tried to do his character justice. And I thought he did a good job with the episode overall. 

Speaking of Sofia, she’s clearly the smartest character on the show so far and she is so obviously playing everyone. And she’s smart and patient about it - she’s willing to take losses (or “losses”) because she’s playing the long game. The way she completely changes her appearance and demeanor around Jim (sexy/dangerous) and Oswald (innocent/chaste) shows she knows exactly how to push their buttons. It will be interesting to see how her plans play out.

Poor Ed. I understand why Oswald is completely over Ed waving a gun in his face. After the seventh or eighth time it tends to lose its impact.  Letting Ed go after he asked to be frozen rather than deal with the fact that his brains are slush was cold (har), but you can tell that Oswald also felt the loss of the Ed Nygma he knew. No point keeping him around in a block of ice because that guy he was obsessed with is gone (at least for now). We’ll see if this bites Oswald in the ass once Ed gets his brains back, or if this will be the end of one chapter for them and a new one will begin if/when they cross paths again (and will it include Oswald finally calling him The Riddler).

 

Poor Bruce. Yeah, he made some dumb decisions, but at this point he should be doing that. He’s still a kid, and a kid who has been a bit too big for his britches lately. It makes sense that he’s in over his head. This is how he will learn. I also appreciate that Alfred tries to solve most problems by punching them.

Zsasz remains the absolute best. I wonder if the Other Victor felt it was worth it to sit throughout hours of hair and makeup to be on screen for about 90 seconds.

Edited by Kostgard
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I definitely think Ben did a nice job.

Jim actually gives Bruce some good, straight-forward advice (thanks, Ben McKenzie, for understanding your character): Ra's al Ghul killing Alex isn't your fault. Ra's al Ghul killing Alex is Ra's al Ghul's fault.  Speaking of Ra's, Siddig has killed it as Ra's.

Interested to see where Bruce goes from here.  

Gotham definitely is not shy about pushing the envelope on network TV

Edited by DR14
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Glad to see Bruce didn't violate his soon to become famous no-kill policy...albeit on a technicality.  I mean, it wasn't his fault but he pretty much signed Alex's death warrant lol.  And he got away with a technicality when he brought Alfred back to life after running him through.  Good to know about all those no-kill loopholes early on in your bat career!

I'm very forgiving of Ra's, because he's Dr. Bashir, and I have a soft spot for the good doctor, no matter how evil his character is.

I want the Riddler back at full riddling strength dammit!

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Rapping messengers. From the Riddler to the Penguin. Comedy gold. That whole plotline was, in fact.

Oh, poor Alex. 

Loved the rightfully perplexed question Gordon got. "How do you spell Ra's all-Ghul?" Which he ignored!! 

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I didn't have time to write a review last night because I was just too tired.

I won't be long with this one because I felt this was so obviously filler, though I give Ben McKenzie props for at least trying to make it interesting.

Some things worked. The rapping messengers (RIP). Penguin. Victor Zsasz. Anubis. Blake asking Jim how to spell Ra's Al-Ghul (and Jim totally ignoring her). Nygma being cast into the wilderness, forced to rectify his wrecked brain.

Oh, and Sofia and Ra's really shined tonight, both playing their characters to a tee and very confidently at that.

I also didn't think Alex would bite it...but, given he is not part of the Bat-lore, I should have figured.

Which is a shame. He could have been a good character. Just once I'd like the show to develop a character over a few episodes before offing them. Makes their death actually have meaning.

Still, this episode did little except to move the story along, so I can't rate it too highly.

Oh, and no Bullock, but I expected that.

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Seriously, big props for Ben McKenzie. I thought that was the best episode of the season. He seemed to treat the characters with a little more respect than they're use to while nailing some of those Gotham flourishes that gives the show its style. Considering how often the Gotham writers botch their female characters, McKenzie even wrote some good material for Sofia. 

I'm wondering if Bullock suddenly being out of the picture  was because filming was around the time of Donal Logue's daughter's disappearance. 

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Fantastic episode. Ras really did step up as a baddie. Alex's death was pretty brutal to be honest and I'm surprised they got away with that. He could've been a great for Bruce had things panned out differently.

I did like Gordon and Bruce teaming up in this episode. Gordon himself had some better writing too, so Ben McKenzie can definitely write another episode for the show.

Sofia seems to be playing both Gordon and Oswald and that's a good thing far as I'm concerned. Let her be a genuine threat to both of them.

The Oswald/Nygma stuff was brilliant this week too. The rapping riddles, Zsasz's reactions and Freeze's return, really enjoyed their scenes. 9/10

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I was just thinking "Well, Gotham is clearly not trying to save any money if they are paying for a Jefferson Airplane song in a scene where it doesn't seem to matter" but then I remembered that while "White Rabbit" was playing, Barbara reveals the King of Hearts card and smiles.

Does anyone know what this may be foreshadowing? They already had an Alice in Wonderland thing with the Mad Hatter, is there another Alice reference in the Batman lore?

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When Alex was introduced, I kept racking my brain trying to think if he was a character from the comics because that's usually how they introduce him, but alas, he was actually here so Bruce can watch Ra's brutally murder him.  Yikes!  I get why Bruce doesn't want the dagger in Ra's hands, but that is still going to royally mess with his head.

Alexander Siddig continues to be perfection as Ra's.  So evil and psychotic, but strangely charming and charismatic too.  And I'm guessing his smirk at the end means he actually wanted to get locked up.  I guess he wants to find more recruits?

Sofia's plan to cosy up to Oswald is smarter then just trying to go to war with him, because Oswald has shown that he can be egotistical enough that he won't see the threat from right under his nose.  Curious to see where this goes.  Jim/Sofia already happening is way too rushed, but whatever.

Nygma has officially lost his groove, I see.  I do think Oswald will regret just freezing him up again though.  Still fun seeing Mr. Freeze again.

Zsasz continues to be the scene stealer this season.

This Harper character seems to be here just so Jim can have someone to bounce off of, since Bullock is away (Donal Logue busy?)

Ben McKenzie did a pretty good job writing wise.

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1 hour ago, doram said:

Was Selina in this episode?

You cannot have a dog boy and a Cat Girl in the same episode! There are rules! Poor Alex and his Grandfather! That was just cruel. LOVED the rapping messengers, everything Zsazs, and the horrible riddling. So, is Barbara no longer crazy because of the Lazarus Pit? I miss her OTT self, but it's kind of genius if the Pit was a cure after all.

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2 hours ago, doram said:

Was Selina in this episode?

No. 

I heard a rumor she isn't appearing in the next two episodes either.

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On 10/12/2017 at 6:01 PM, SimoneS said:

OMG, he killed Alex.

That bastard!

On 10/12/2017 at 6:13 PM, HoodlumSheep said:

Bruce. Bruce. I don't know what to say. I know the knife is important...but you let alex die. :(

Thing is -- Bruce cannot let Ra's have the knife -- Ra's is already too powerful; with the knife he could be unstoppable.

9 hours ago, NutmegsDad said:

I couldn't find out or verify.... who played the rapper messengers? I could swear one was Deon Cole (Charlie from Black-ish).

Looks like Jacob Wheeler (Lefty) and Reggie D. White (Mo)

ETA  -- Found confirmation of Jacob Wheeler:

and Reggie D White:

Edited by jhlipton
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Uh... holy shit. 

Okay, this episode was amazing, but, holy shit!

A 16 year old (at the most) had his throat slit on a Network show that airs at 8 PM. WOW. 

I loved this episode. Penguin and Ed’s plot was a nice bit of levity while the search for the knife with Ra’s after Alex and Bruce was something out of a horror movie. 

If Ben ever wants to write another episode, I hope they let him, because he crushed this. 

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I am very, very impressed with Ben! Very good writing and he made Jim a helluva lot less of a dummy! You can tell how frustrated he's been with his character being yanked thither and yon, and even his macking on Sophia was a little less WHAT ARE YOU DOING than last time--at least there's some kind of damn framework for it (and of course she's hot, duh.) The supposed age difference between the characters bothered me less, too, because Sophia came across much more believable and competent. 

(I mean of course he's still a dummy for smooching on her at ALL because she's a friggin' gangster and he's basically handing himself to her both personally and professionally but... let's face it, he's done a lot worse.) 

Zsasz continues to kill it (so to speak) every time he shows up on screen. His "I'll stab you" to Soph and rockin' to the beat of the rappers (who were also great--"what? Wait man" hee hee hee ) were both shiny shiny gold. The show's use of him is terrific--just enough so that you squeal with delight every time he shows up. Don't blow this, show!

Babs' latest incarnation continues to be another facet for Erin to run and play with like a puppy with a sock.  Loved her "so much for catching up" to Jim--she's all I don't need you, loser ex boyfriend, I got Ra's now! (Although that shade of blonde is not at all flattering and I hope they do some tweaking.) 

Speaking of Ra's---SHIT, MAN. I know Gotham gonna Gotham but they just cut a twelve year old's throat on TV! SHIT! I guess when they set out to guilt riddle Bruce they ain't fooling around. I suppose Ra's was still smarting from Alfred's punch first/ask questions later methods of tracking Bruce and felt short tempered.. It was great how he just ran right in there and punched him; at that point did he even recognize him or was he just laying into the first person he saw?

More reasons you can tell Ben wrote the episode: Jim calling Alfred out for getting on his back about Bruce following him. Alfred, you are hardly in a position to get snotty about allowing Bruce into dangerous situations. The detective's asking about how to spell Ra's name.  Throwing the bone through the window. "You want him in the same pose as before?" All very Gothamy touches.

Ed and Penguin's little get together and the way they're so good at pressing each others' buttons at this point that they're at a standstill. Good way to lite-hit the reset button without yet another tedious round of heartbreak and snark. 

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So they kill off a bunch of women over the years on this series.  Now they kill off a little kid.  What happens next week?  Tying little old ladies to railroad tracks?

Bruce couldn't give up the knife, and therefore, it was a forgone conclusion that Alex would die.  It wasn't any real great surprise.

 

If they need to use violence in an effort to drive the story lines, I have no problem with that.   However, it just seems that some of the violence on this series is all about shock value more so than anything that contributes to the storytelling.  They need to increase the pace of storytelling.  The ratings aren't looking very good, so something needs to change.   Above and beyond that, IMO this series, writing wise, is really in a rut.

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1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

So they kill off a bunch of women over the years on this series.  Now they kill off a little kid.  What happens next week?  Tying little old ladies to railroad tracks?

Bruce couldn't give up the knife, and therefore, it was a forgone conclusion that Alex would die.  It wasn't any real great surprise.

 

If they need to use violence in an effort to drive the story lines, I have no problem with that.   However, it just seems that some of the violence on this series is all about shock value more so than anything that contributes to the storytelling.  They need to increase the pace of storytelling.  The ratings aren't looking very good, so something needs to change.   Above and beyond that, IMO this series, writing wise, is really in a rut.

Writing wise I think they are hitting it out of the ball park this year. It started last year when the show it its stride. They continued this year. Ratings wise its just in a very competitive slot and it was moved. Its got the same rating the last few weeks. People are sticking by it.

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51 minutes ago, doram said:

I disagree. They can't juggle their principal characters. Where's Selina? Tabitha? 

They are directly connected to the main plot via Barbara, but they're weirdly absent/silent for 2 episodes now. 

If the story isn't about them, why should they be there? It's usually a mistake when you have a large cast to try to shove everybody into every episode no matter what. Take Inhumans for example: it's cast isn't nearly as large as Gotham's, but they make sure to include every single one of those idiots all the time and it makes it even more stupid and choppy then it would be otherwise.

Gotham is doing the right thing by only only including the characters it needs for each episode. Everybody gets their turn, and when they're onscreen they get more time for complex storylines instead of a few seconds of filler and make-work.

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1 hour ago, Lokiberry said:

If the story isn't about them, why should they be there? It's usually a mistake when you have a large cast to try to shove everybody into every episode no matter what. Take Inhumans for example: it's cast isn't nearly as large as Gotham's, but they make sure to include every single one of those idiots all the time and it makes it even more stupid and choppy then it would be otherwise.

Gotham is doing the right thing by only only including the characters it needs for each episode. Everybody gets their turn, and when they're onscreen they get more time for complex storylines instead of a few seconds of filler and make-work.

I would like this multiple times, were it possible. 

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1 hour ago, Lokiberry said:

Gotham is doing the right thing by only only including the characters it needs for each episode. Everybody gets their turn, and when they're onscreen they get more time for complex storylines instead of a few seconds of filler and make-work.

The upshot is that Gotham's cast shouldn't be this big in the first place. Mileage will vary, but I don't see a lot of focus from the writers when it comes to their stories, and it's because they have so many characters to juggle. Almost all of these characters have had their development stunted because the show is almost forced to move away from them from time to time, and the show has suffered in the long term.

The series made a big mistake moving from episodic stories to serial stories, because it never truly decided who its main character is. Ostensibly, this should solely be about Bruce, and maybe now it should be about Bruce because David Mazouz is absolutely killing it on screen, with everyone else organized by their relationship to him. The writers seem like they want to go there, but this business with Sofia and Gordon trying to take on Penguin is really just getting in the way.

I've always said that this series would have worked better if this was about the long fight between Gordon and Penguin, both being proto-Bats and proto-Joker who eventually give way to real things. The Penguin could easily have been a unique criminal who undermines and plays "the system" for his own benefit, making him extremely hard to catch. The Joker, then, becomes the guy who eventually destroys it, necessitating Batman.

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7 hours ago, doram said:

I disagree. They can't juggle their principal characters. Where's Selina? Tabitha? 

They are directly connected to the main plot via Barbara, but they're weirdly absent/silent for 2 episodes now. 

I find it quite hilarious that the show has heavily promoted the Sirens, but they've only had one episode together so far.  And if the below link is true, episode 7 will be the earliest they show up together again.

 https://twitter.com/GothamBatAndCat/status/908152276187013120

I'm really wondering if the show would've been better off with Selina and Ivy teaming up this season and Babs and Tabs both were killed off and resurrected by Ra's and working with Ra's.  They actually do have history on the show and if Batcat isn't happening then I think it would make sense to develop her other relationship she has had on the show.  But Tabitha has a whip and that alone I guess made sense to the producers and they couldn't just have Selina steal it or something.

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1 hour ago, doram said:

I did say:

The story is about them. You might give Tabitha a pass but Selina has tried twice to steal the knife and needs it to prove herself to Barbara. Before this episode she was certainly more connected to the story than Gordon whom the writers (lol, in this case the actor himself) managed to insert into it.

Selina also has her own growth and evolution to do. There's more to being Catwoman than flicking a whip and wearing tight clothes. 

But that's not what this episode was about. It wasn't about Barbara's relationships with Tabitha or Selina, it was about her relationship with Ra's. If Selina had showed up it would have been basically for a cameo because there was nothing for her to do other than again be angry that she wasn't being treated as an equal.

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The upshot is that Gotham's cast shouldn't be this big in the first place. Mileage will vary, but I don't see a lot of focus from the writers when it comes to their stories, and it's because they have so many characters to juggle. Almost all of these characters have had their development stunted because the show is almost forced to move away from them from time to time, and the show has suffered in the long term.

This is exactly what is slowing down the pace of the show, too many characters.  That is exactly what happened to TWD last season, too many characters, along with a character (Nagen) that wouldn't shut the hell up.

I am also tired of The Riddler/Penguin drama.  Either resolve it, or put it away for awhile.

 

Quote

Ratings wise its just in a very competitive slot and it was moved. Its got the same rating the last few weeks. People are sticking by it.

I had looked at the ratings before they were adjusted up.  I should have looked at the adjustment before I posted.  Sorry about that.  I do appreciate the correction.   Yes, they are in a very competitive time slot.  I liked it better when Gotham was on Mondays.

Edited by icemiser69
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5 hours ago, doram said:

I kind of like the way the show has managed to be consistent (by accident or design) about Selina's Mommy issues. So I'm OK with the idea of her working with older women. Having Tabitha and Barbara give her different skillsets - fighting, navigating the intricacies of white collar crime, posing successfully as a member of the elite (accent, attitude, etc - think my Fair Lady for cat burglars) makes sense because Selina has to make a jump from streetwise tomboy to Catwoman. The idea isn't bad, it's the execution that sucks because the show apparently can't write women. 

That's fair.

I do think the fundamental problem is too many characters. I mean we still have Grundy, Lee, Pyg to introduce/reintroduce this season.

That said, the show did tease major development for Selina, and she is a major player in the Bat-verse. In King's current run, she is probably the most utilized character besides Batman himself.

I love Penguin on this show but maybe he could take an episode off. It's established he's in control and maybe having some time to let that marinate would be good.

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Damn! Ra's Al-Ghul has been responsible for just about everything bad that has happened on this show to some extent or another, but this is the first time we've really seen him doing something evil personally and he didn't disappoint. Killing both Alex and his grandfather was pretty dark, especially since as people have said killing kids is something fiction usually shies away from so kudos!

Bruce, you already know this guy wants the knife and will do anything to achieve his goals, there's easier ways to keep it out of his hands than to send it to some old guy, why he wants it doesn't matter, just that he wants it. If I were Bruce I would have bought the knife and then gone straight to the nearest smelting facility, or maybe Ace Chemicals if that place is actually in operation and paid to drop it into a steel or corrosive vat. Poof! Gone.

On 10/12/2017 at 8:13 PM, HoodlumSheep said:

Anubis was freaky with that gollum impression. Eeek.

"Gollum" was the first thing that came to mind for me too. My thoughts were "are we supposed to actually think this bad Gollum ripoff is threatening?" "Cause he's not, at ALL." The throwing the bone out the window and having the dog guy chase after it was just the finisher to the absurdity.

Ben McKinzie wrote this episode? Well, that would explain why the writing was better, and it would definitely explain why Gordon is banging a hot chick during this episode.

Edited by immortalfrieza
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4 hours ago, Kathemy said:

Bruce+S4E4.jpg
<Doux Reviews> <The Demon's Head>

Not my best review but... Hell, it took almost the whole week to get my thumb out of my ass.

11 hours ago, doram said:

There's never an excuse for lazy writing. 

LOL.  Actually it is a good review but that line was flashing in neon at me right above your post, and I couldn't resist.

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1. Of all the menacing freaks we've seen in the series Anubis is undoubtedly the most creepy, he makes Zsaz look like a Care Bear. I'm glad he's dead (?)

2. Speaking of Zsaz, really starting to love the Penguin/Zsaz relationship, the way he gets into the hip-hop duo but still wants to torture them. Why do these poor guys keep coming back, is Ed paying them?

3. Dr Bashir is really growing on me, actually love the scenes with him as Mr Civilized Academic, he's so plausible, you half expect him to be wearing cricket whites. . Note he's started the whole 'Detective' thing. Love it when Alfred slugs him. 

4. Oh my god they killed the kid! Thankfully they chickened out from killing the nuns and torching the cheerleaders but they went and did it this time. No wonder Bruce is so anguished.

5. What is Barbara's business? Is it a bar or private members club or something? And where are Tabby and Selina this week?

6. Oh Jim, she's trouble! T-R-O-U-B-L-E! But yes, you still would.

7. Not sure about Jim's new partner, is she meant to be permanent or just because Harvey is not available this week?

8.  Ras-a ghul in Blackgate? Surprised he just hasn't got diplomatic immunity. What does his little smile mean? That he can get out so easily or he wanted to be sent there?

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Surprised at how dark this was. I was sure the name Alex Winthrop was familiar and that he was going to turn out to be Kid Flash or something and then they killed him! Admittedly, he died in an episode that features a resurrection knife, so he's only "Comic Book" dead, but even so...

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:01 AM, SimoneS said:

 Zsasz jamming to Ed's rap was hilarious, torturing the two black homeless guys not so much.

But you've got to let Victor have his fun! OK, maybe I'm sick...

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:13 AM, HoodlumSheep said:

Anubis was freaky with that gollum impression. Eeek.

Made me think more of The Gentlemen's minions in Buffy, who capered on all fours a bit like that.

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:21 AM, mertensia said:

Loved the rightfully perplexed question Gordon got. "How do you spell Ra's all-Ghul?" Which he ignored!! 

I was half expecting Ra's to speak up in the background and spell it for her! But good job on trying various spellings (unsuccessfully).

On ‎15‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:58 AM, Last Time Lord said:

Is Ra's in the comics considered a scary villain? Because he's downright frightening on this show.

He's generally more the mastermind type who rarely gets involved directly with events. He's also one of the villains who knows that Bruce Wayne is Batman (he worked it out).

10 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Ras-a ghul in Blackgate? Surprised he just hasn't got diplomatic immunity. What does his little smile mean? That he can get out so easily or he wanted to be sent there?

We only had his word for it that ANYTHING he said was true (OK, the guy is connected enough to actually wrangle immunity, in most portrayals). I'm sure he won't be in jail for long, in any case.

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 6:13 PM, Kostgard said:

They already had an Alice in Wonderland thing with the Mad Hatter, is there another Alice reference in the Batman lore?

Well there is also the Royal Flush Gang in Batman Beyond (who are playing card themed, though not specifically Alice in Wonderland).

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13 minutes ago, John Potts said:

Surprised at how dark this was. I was sure the name Alex Winthrop was familiar and that he was going to turn out to be Kid Flash or something and then they killed him! Admittedly, he died in an episode that features a resurrection knife, so he's only "Comic Book" dead, but even so...

But you've got to let Victor have his fun! OK, maybe I'm sick...

Made me think more of The Gentlemen's minions in Buffy, who capered on all fours a bit like that.

I was half expecting Ra's to speak up in the background and spell it for her! But good job on trying various spellings (unsuccessfully).

He's generally more the mastermind type who rarely gets involved directly with events. He's also one of the villains who knows that Bruce Wayne is Batman (he worked it out).

We only had his word for it that ANYTHING he said was true (OK, the guy is connected enough to actually wrangle immunity, in most portrayals). I'm sure he won't be in jail for long, in any case.

Well there is also the Royal Flush Gang in Batman Beyond (who are playing card themed, though not specifically Alice in Wonderland).

Good call on The Gentlemen, I remember when Butch used the rocket launcher to destroy Galavan, reminded me a lot of Buffy taking out The Judge. 

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It has been a surprisingly long wait that we got an episode that featured Jim and Bruce working together, so that made this episode better than most.  In the scene in the tunnel, it was clear that Bruce Wayne could hold his own against Jim Gordon and he's even slightly taller than the older man.

It was pretty heartbreaking though to see the older man die and then the kid.  Bruce seemed a tad too calm/alright with being the cause of his grandfather's death.  I did like Bruce interacting with someone closer to his age, and their conversations were pretty good.  When he called Bruce cool, I thought maybe Bruce was going to pick up a sidekick early, LOL.  

Alex should have at least told Bruce about the Demon's head translation his grandfather wrote.  That was dropped for some reason.

The rest of the episode was the usual.  Ed's bad riddles were sort of amusing.  

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