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S07.E20: With This Ring

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The only reason Kelly was correctly able to psychoanalyze Donna's situation is because she could link it to one of her own experiences.  I don't know how she managed to graduate with her degree.

Although I like scorned Tracy, I can't with her outrage.  From the time she started batting eyelashes at Brandon, Brandon has showed absolutely not one iota of interest in her.  He still, to this point, has not said I love you to her.  And she all but did everything except jump on his dick to get him to go out with her/have sex with her.  Yet, she thinks he wants to propose?  And is also surprised that he has mixed feelings about their relationship?  C'mon now girl!  Brandon has done nothing to show you that he's into you.  As they say, when people show you who they are, believe them.  Brandon has always showed himself to be a disinterested prick....believe him and move the fuck on.

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It looks like a real slap, because there's a little wisp of hair that gets caught between Mom's hand and Val's cheek.  

When I rewatched this episode a few months ago, I couldn't figure out what was bothering me about the German jeweler.  Now I know.  I definitely did not recognize him as Jason Priestly, but when the clip aired in the podcast, it was so clearly his voice.  Not sure how I missed that!

That actress who plays Chloe is from Saved by the Bell: The New Class, right?

Edited by luckyroll3
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1 hour ago, luckyroll3 said:

Although I like scorned Tracy, I can't with her outrage. 

Her outrage is instantly soothed with that crappy tennis bracelet too.  As soon as Brandon says he returned the ring, she's all gooey, "You did?"  UGH!

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I would say the most into someone Brandon ever seemed was Susan. Take a page out of Susan's book, Tracy. Let the guy chase you.. if he's interested, you'll know. If he's not.. he'll act the way he does with you.

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1 hour ago, luckyroll3 said:

That actress who plays Chloe is from Saved by the Bell: The New Class, right?

Sure is!  Her DGAF expression in that GIF is pretty sweet.

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OMG that fake jeweler voice! Giving me intense cringe flashbacks (Post Embarrassment Stress Disorder?) to my high school's production of Cabaret and benched-for-the-season hockey players attempting to do German accents (you had to do an activity every season, so if you couldn't play hockey your winter options were community service, theater, or managing one of the other teams).

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Kelly really is so conceited. She told Brandon she still had feelings for him a) months ago, b) two seconds after he dumped Susan, c) clearly in response to the news that Dylan's with Brenda, and d) then went on to date his co-worker for most of a semester. And she thinks that was a clear declaration of love that he should have acted on? Shutie.

I do not understand the whole 100th episode thing. Are we supposed to think the campus television station didn't exist until now? It's been a thing for a while, David worked for it in season 5 when Brandon and Josh ran for office!

Bye Chloe! As with Mark, I did not remember you at all before this run of episodes began and I look forward to you again being wiped from my memory.

Edited by TeeVee329
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Do my ears deceive, or does Tara say Veronica's Secret circa minute ten? Clearly the return of "Will & Grace" has her thinking she can have the entire 1998 Thursday lineup back!

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That German jeweler is probably wanted for war crimes. All that jewelry probably came from dead people!

I LOL'd hard when Sarah said Kelly should throw it into the sea along with herself tied to a sack of bricks. Tracy should really do the same with that stupid consolation prize bracelet. 

You know, with Kelly's shitty psychoanalysis of Donna and Tracy's general idiot behavior, I'm starting to think CU is maybe not a very good school.

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1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

Kelly really is so conceited. She told Brandon she still had feelings for him a) months ago, b) two seconds after he dumped Susan, c) clearly in response to the news that Dylan's with Brenda, and d) then went on to date his co-worker for most of a semester. And she thinks that was a clear declaration of love that he should have acted on? Shutie.

 

That and the fact that Dylan was in a different country so she couldn't choose him if she wanted to.. So when she told Brandon she finally made a decision.. that was only because her choices were slim pickins.

 

Even though it seems unrealistic that every guy ever plus Alison is in love with Kelly, I do know girls who every guy they meet is into them... I just don't get how they all are so won over by her personality.

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19 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

That and the fact that Dylan was in a different country so she couldn't choose him if she wanted to.. So when she told Brandon she finally made a decision.. that was only because her choices were slim pickins.

 

Even though it seems unrealistic that every guy ever plus Alison is in love with Kelly, I do know girls who every guy they meet is into them... I just don't get how they all are so won over by her personality.

Add in that Kelly was the one to brutally dump Brandon (after cheating on him with his friend), so perhaps he's kind of right to expect that she should come to him if she's ready to be in a relationship with him?! I don't want to be on Brandon's side ever, but I get why he's waiting for her to make a first move, seeing as he loved her before and she was ready to dump him without any real warning. 

On another note: it is weird that the writers only know how to write the most unpleasant stories kind of well: Sue Scanlon's creepy uncle, the Donna and Ray abusiveness story, Val's monster of a father. When it comes to normal relations between siblings or whatever they have no idea how ti write a good story.

How old is Randy Spelling supposed to be? Why do they act as if he's 12? If he's 16 or so, I'm sure he can handle having consentual sex without having some big talk with Steve.

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So at this point in the show time was powers
That be just letting Jason do anything he wanted to keep him on this show? Because he’s now a producer and he’s a director occasionally and he’s doing terrible German jewelry sales associate? What?

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The shop of that Cherman Cheweler with the weird twitchy mannerisms is, I believe, off either Lake Street or Huntington in Pasadena. BH 90210 loved Pasadena. That's where the Equinox was (is, actually), the Only Coffee Shop in L.A., where the gangsters used to go (before cappuccino made everyone gay).

I didn't remember this episode in detail, so Val's story shocked me. It's funny, because I was just rewatching Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me for the billionth time, and the "Your hands are filthy!" scene never bothers me, because my dad was just like that. Loved making people feel uncomfortable, creating awkwardness and impossible situations, especially for the vulnerable, although he wasn't physically abusive. But that Val shit...damn. "A little girl who loved her daddy so much, she made him do terrible things." That's some ace victim-blaming right there, and a great way to get into a little girl's head forever and ever, seeding guilt, shame and misery. Eesh. Glad that monster is dead. Although as far as the show is concerned, it makes me only root for Valerie and hate Kelly more.

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Ladies, this is just a hunch but by any chance did you re-cap this episode on Thursday night after watching Project Runway? Your analysis was peppered with many of the Twins' "indeed".

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I haven't watched these episodes since they originally aired I'm guessing.  (I'm with Tara-only Brenda years in reruns!)  When this episode of the podcast started I was so confused because I vaguely remembered an episode where Brandon and Tracy go to Hong Kong.  I thought I might have made it up so I took to Google to discover that there are STILL 12 more episodes in this season.   That's insane.  No wonder the writers couldn't come up with anything. I used to only think that the seasons with the summer episodes were super long but it appears its almost all of them.  I'm a little concerned for Sarah's health with this run of episodes none of it is good.  Stay strong, Sarah! 

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The Oboe of Much Sadness was heavily featured in the score during the quadrangle and Val stories. Although I really think they should have just used the dun-dun-DUN drop. Really added to the experience.

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10 hours ago, Stowaway said:

Do my ears deceive, or does Tara say Veronica's Secret circa minute ten? Clearly the return of "Will & Grace" has her thinking she can have the entire 1998 Thursday lineup back!

I caught that as well.  I yelled back at my speaker, "I think you mean Veronica's Closet."  It gave me a good chuckle.

3 hours ago, scrubs14 said:

I thought I might have made it up so I took to Google to discover that there are STILL 12 more episodes in this season.   That's insane.  

The seasons are so loooooooooooong!  I had to stop my rewatch because I couldn't take thinking a storyline was over only to realize there were stil 104 more episodes to go before the season was done.  

9 hours ago, Nanna said:

Add in that Kelly was the one to brutally dump Brandon (after cheating on him with his friend), so perhaps he's kind of right to expect that she should come to him if she's ready to be in a relationship with him?! I don't want to be on Brandon's side ever, but I get why he's waiting for her to make a first move, seeing as he loved her before and she was ready to dump him without any real warning. 

 

10 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Kelly really is so conceited. She told Brandon she still had feelings for him a) months ago, b) two seconds after he dumped Susan, c) clearly in response to the news that Dylan's with Brenda, and d) then went on to date his co-worker for most of a semester. And she thinks that was a clear declaration of love that he should have acted on?

Yes, all of this.  For some reason she thinks she's the prize. Brandon's no prize either, but......they both just need to disappear.

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^ ewwwwwww totally forgot about that! John and Mackenzie went to rehab together in my hometown. Allegedly they would get a day pass and walk down to The Office (a TGIF type of place across from the train station) to meet their dealer for a few rails, then walk back to rehab. Probably fake news but everyone from the town treats it like gospel.

 

Every season pretty much has 30-32 episodes except, mercifully, Season 10. But that's years away. [sobs quietly]

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I don't care what Val's mom said. Maybe she didn't "know" and maybe through willful ignorance and chosen denial she convinced herself there was nothing happening. But, come on, how does the father explain where he is going? And even if a kid doesn't say anything and she assumes he's going to the den to watch TV/kitchen for a snack or whatever reason for his absence from their bed, there are all kinds of nonverbal clues. I just don't believe that can happen for years and there never be any kind of signs to make her wonder what is happening in her house. At some point, she had to make a choice not to ask. I guess they decided that was a step more than they wanted to go and just wanted to wrap this story up. Otherwise, I'm impressed they went for it and didn't do a bunch of euphemism BS & veiled references and just called it what it was - rape and incest.

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I get that people, particularly abusers, have public faces and private faces.  That said, isn't it still a little wonky to imagine Abbie and Victor Malone being BFF with Cindy and Jim?

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I do wonder if the Val's father molested her story line was supposed to happen from the beginning or if the suicide story was supposed to be true, because they didn't bring up the molestation story line until the very end of her run on the show,.. almost like they needed a story line for her

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4 hours ago, Sarah D. Bunting said:

(The Mr. T caption is by my esteemed/traumatized colleague Tara C. Ariano.)

Stolen from Friends, as I'm sure everyone citing it fondly remembers.

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I do wonder if the Val's father molested her story line was supposed to happen from the beginning or if the suicide story was supposed to be true, because they didn't bring up the molestation story line until the very end of her run on the show,.. almost like they needed a story line for her

I feel like it wasn't this way from the beginning, if only because I vaguely recall Val saying things about her father early on that are very odd given where the storyline eventually goes. 

Quote

I get that people, particularly abusers, have public faces and private faces.  That said, isn't it still a little wonky to imagine Abbie and Victor Malone being BFF with Cindy and Jim?

Given that Cindy's life during the course of her five seasons as a regular on the show mostly consisted of her preparing dinner and once going out to a nursery with her maid to be secretly sexily photographed by her old boyfriend, I presume she would have jumped at the chance for any outside adult human contact, even if it was with total whack jobs like the Malone family. 

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3 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

I get that people, particularly abusers, have public faces and private faces.  That said, isn't it still a little wonky to imagine Abbie and Victor Malone being BFF with Cindy and Jim?

Seriously. And then you wonder about little Brenda hanging around ... *shudder*....  

 

5 hours ago, Flamingo said:

I don't care what Val's mom said. Maybe she didn't "know" and maybe through willful ignorance and chosen denial she convinced herself there was nothing happening. But, come on, how does the father explain where he is going? And even if a kid doesn't say anything and she assumes he's going to the den to watch TV/kitchen for a snack or whatever reason for his absence from their bed, there are all kinds of nonverbal clues. I just don't believe that can happen for years and there never be any kind of signs to make her wonder what is happening in her house.

IKR? It's really tragically fascinating how someone can be so blind and so deeply in denial, but I guess it happens more than we care to admit. Like with people married to serial killers and/or rapists who maybe feel, deep down, that something isn't right, but they don't "know, know." Didn't Sandusky's wife deny everything? Even thought he raped boys in her home? Sick.

 

20 hours ago, Silly Angel said:

 

The shop of that Cherman Cheweler

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I speak some German and live in Germany, I know Germans, you, Mr. Priestly, are no German. Man, what a cock up. And we can't even say the writers did it to him because they hate him, since he was a producer, I think he had some say in hatching such a hair-brained scheme. Did he think this was going to be emmy-worthy? Was he trying to save a few bucks on casting? What? Who told him it was a good idea??? It takes  REALLY good actor to pull off a non-native English speaker's accent (see: Brenda Dubois or that time Donna acted as if she were from "LOHNDUN" in the real world episode) ... Most Germans I have met who have lived in the States speak fluent English with just a trace of an accent - you may realize they're not from the US, but it's hard to pinpoint where they're from - they don't fucking sound like fucking Col. Klink.  GAH. SO STUPID!

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Hey, remember way back in season whatever (five I think) when Val's mom was going to check herself into a hospital and Val was like "Who's going to take care of Pert and Suzy?" and Tara hypothesized that Pert and Suzy were dogs?

 

I wonder what happened to them.

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I swear I haven't listen to the podcast yet. But, I was watching this episode. I went the other room to pick something up and heard the jeweler scene. Without any memory of this scene and no visuals I was like, is that Jason playing the jeweler in a shitty accent? My god, why?

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Kelly's "writing," would be a lot more succinct if she didn't "write," as if she was talking. Who actually writes, "I mean..." even in a journal? Speaking of writing, that dialogue between Kelly and Brandon outside the store was the worst. them just repeating each other like a couple of myna birds.

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2 hours ago, Klaw said:

I speak some German and live in Germany, I know Germans, you, Mr. Priestly, are no German. Man, what a cock up. And we can't even say the writers did it to him because they hate him, since he was a producer, I think he had some say in hatching such a hair-brained scheme. Did he think this was going to be emmy-worthy? Was he trying to save a few bucks on casting? What? Who told him it was a good idea??? It takes  REALLY good actor to pull off a non-native English speaker's accent (see: Brenda Dubois or that time Donna acted as if she were from "LOHNDUN" in the real world episode) ... Most Germans I have met who have lived in the States speak fluent English with just a trace of an accent - you may realize they're not from the US, but it's hard to pinpoint where they're from - they don't fucking sound like fucking Col. Klink.  GAH. SO STUPID!

Hush. Yoo vill spoil eet. The show is usually so fantastic with accents. 

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I truly want to know why Brandon is playing the german jeweler.  Were they planning on bringing the jeweler back at some later point?  It seems so utterly.....random. I would love to know what the reasoning in the writers room/production office was.  I wonder if anyone ever actually asked  JP back in the day when the episode aired.

Speaking of writers, it seems clear to me that they never knew what to do with Valerie so they kept looking for more family trauma to explain (and/or retcon and/or rex-explain) why she is troubled or a mean girl.  (Actually I think it's too bad Valerie and Kelly never got to be mean girls together- that could have been awesome).  

I'm sorry they wrote Tom off.  I fanwank that Val ended up with him at the end of the series.

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2 hours ago, MostlyC said:

I truly want to know why Brandon is playing the german jeweler.  Were they planning on bringing the jeweler back at some later point?  It seems so utterly.....random. I would love to know what the reasoning in the writers room/production office was.  I wonder if anyone ever actually asked  JP back in the day when the episode aired.

 

I like to think Jason Priestly really thought this was his Emmy reel.  Soap stars all the time win Emmys when they play the good vs evil twin.  Perhaps he knew he couldn't pull off a good twin so he went with the German jeweler. 

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Once a season, The Chancellor can't not give Brandon an award. I imagine years later Brandon still gets awarded something by The Chancellor.

"Hello Brandon! It's Chancellor Arnold! Just letting you know you've been awarded CU's Pullitser prize for best alum. No, not P-u-l-i-t-z-e-r. Pullitser, with two ells and and S, named after Nathan Pullitser, the CU alum who invented bathroom windows 7.5 feet from the floor."

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"Hello Brandon! It's Chancellor Arnold! Just letting you know you've been awarded CU's Pullitser prize for best alum. No, not P-u-l-i-t-z-e-r. Pullitser, with two ells and and S, named after Nathan Pullitser, the CU alum who invented bathroom windows 7.5 feet from the floor."

Followed by a pointed look at Kelly. 

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On 10/3/2017 at 11:08 AM, Jaclyn88 said:

I do wonder if the Val's father molested her story line was supposed to happen from the beginning or if the suicide story was supposed to be true, because they didn't bring up the molestation story line until the very end of her run on the show,.. almost like they needed a story line for her

Oh Lordy, don"t forget where this goes in Valerie's actual last season.  Hint:  It wasn't a suicide!

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3 minutes ago, Dayjay said:

Oh Lordy, don"t forget where this goes in Valerie's actual last season.  Hint:  It wasn't a suicide!

Yea that's wgat I'm referring to . I wonder if the non suicide was planned from the get go 

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I don't think the non-suicide or the molestation were planned. I think they thought Tiffani would only stick around for a year, so they didn't put too much effort into her backstory. When it was clear that Tiffani/ Val was resonating with fans and was going to stick around, they had to concoct all kinds of bullshit. The molestation storyline could have been more compelling, with a little more effort and planning. Tiffani did the best she could with the material. Ret-conning that she actually killed her dad was super stupid, but the show was a complete garbage fire by then.

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Yea I think if they had the dad kill himself because other people along with the cops found out about the molestation , it would have made more sense. But her killing her dad came out of nowhere 

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I think the window was left open, shall we say, for the molestation reveal.  It doesn't completely jive with the way Val talked about her dad and his suicide in season five, but it wasn't completely egregious, especially compared to some other retcons the show's gotten into.

But her having murdered him was a complete asspull, maybe because the writers or Tiffani-Amber Thiessen wanted something big to play for Val's final run of episodes?

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