Season 5 Discussion

[calpurnia99]

Luis and Molly have nothing in common. When she was talking about her dad - he had opinions on her dad and she did not agree with his viewpoint- she just rolled her eyes and put on that same face she had on when Luis said "your daughter is 17 she can do what she want with her body". Then the conversation about the wedding. Then about bachelor party. Everything he says she disagrees with.  I will be shocked if they get married. It will not work out. He doesn't want to babysit, he doesn't want to be faithful and he doesn't like Woodstock, Georgia.  I live in Georgia and where they are is a nice place for people to raise a family- it is traditional suburbia. 

[DVDFreaker]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Maybe it is not a mistake.  If David Poor plastered Annie might not be forced to consumate the marriage. 

You make a good point

[jumper sage]

21 minutes ago, Awfarmington said:

Fast forward to the sex talk and he runs out of the room...hmm, maybe he isn't looking forward to showing off his curvaceous figure. 

Interesting slant.  I kind of thought that he might be gay and is a "virgin" in the usual definition of the word.  Not that there is anything wrong with being gay.

[millennium]

7 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

Claremont is where a group of white teens tried to lynch a 9 year old biracial child. This year. In 2017.

Sundown towns always communicate who is welcome... and who is not.

I hadn't heard of that case.   Thanks for enlightening me.  Obviously that's a problem.

I'm not sure a single case of hatred or poor judgment by 13-year-olds is enough to call a community  a "sundown town," but at the same time I don't know enough about local attitudes, ordinances, real estate practices, etc. to deny it either.   The New England towns I grew up in were predominantly white.   I think the ethnic makeup was more a result of the hiring practices of local mills generations earlier rather than racism.   Almost everyone was a descendant of French-Canadian and Irish laborers, Portuguese, etc., who had been recruited to the area in the 19th century. 

[Desert Rat]

Mexican food in New Hampshire??  Yuck!!  I'm sure it's watered down and tasteless. No, thank you. 

[Liamsmom617]

10 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

I hate like 90% of the people on this show. We usually give the Americans a hard time (which I get), but tonight, the biggest dickbags were Luis and the Davids, and I'm not super fond of Azan at this moment, either. Yes, Nicole is abusive and stupid, but you can't judge every American for the person only half of them voted for, and you can't assume they're racist when they're sitting right there trying to marry your brown ass, and FFS you can't defend bootleg DVDs. That is an actual crime. Sorry Paul Blart 2 didn't make it to the Marrakesh Alamo Drafthouse but Nicole, Ugly American that she is, is not wrong on that point.

I kept asking God what I did to deserve having to hear Evelyn snarf apples for ten straight minutes AND Molly's hideous hillbilly screeching and wheezing for another thirty. That was fucking torture. I think I have partial hearing loss now. As soon as Molly is done with the family counseling she so desperately needs, she needs to hitch a ride to the nearest speech pathologist and learn how to make human noises at human decibels. 

You missed your calling, JocelynCavanaigh. You should be a comedy writer! 

[Pondlass1]

I used to record this and watch TWD.  Now it's the other way around.  These couples are way scarier than any zombie.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, millennium said:

I hadn't heard of that case.   Thanks for enlightening me.  Obviously that's a problem.

I'm not sure a single case of hatred or poor judgment by 13-year-olds is enough to call a community  a "sundown town," but at the same time I don't know enough about local attitudes, ordinances, real estate practices, etc. to deny it either.   The New England towns I grew up in were predominantly white.   I think the ethnic makeup was more a result of the hiring practices of local mills generations earlier rather than racism.   Almost everyone was a descendant of French-Canadian and Irish laborers, Portuguese, etc., who had been recruited to the area in the 19th century. 

The population of all of upper New England (NH, VT, and ME) is overwhelmingly white.  I think this is probably the result of a combination of factors.  1) There where far fewer slaves in the Northeast and slavery was banned there much earlier. 2) People generally don't migrate to colder, rural areas. (ask David Spain), but to warmer areas or to larger cities, for work.  3) There is probably some prejudice based upon the small number of minorities making them unfamiliar to the locals.  4) Many minorities might not feel comfortable moving to an area with few minorities.  

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

Mexican food in New Hampshire??  Yuck!!  I'm sure it's watered down and tasteless. No, thank you. 

Not necessarily.  These days Mexican food has become so mainstream in America that you don't necessarily need Mexicans to cook it.  The same is true of many other sorts of ethnic foods.  I see Hispanics running pizza places and Chinese running Mexican places in NY.  It's not like there is something in people's DNA that makes them cook better ethnic food.  If you have the recipe and the ingredients, and better yet if you learned from authentic chefs from those places, there is no reason you can't cook ethnic food very well.  

[stacyasp]

11 hours ago, BeachyWave said:

So I married a very wealthy man 12 years ago -- except he falsified the marriage. I was a giant publicity stunt. What cracks me up now is that he gave me a $3,000 engagement ring (he makes well over $1m/year) and told everyone at his fancy parties that he had to get me such a tiny diamond because I had small hands. LMAO.

Wow I want to hear more abou this story!

[greekmom]

I was curious so I did go to tripadvisor.com  .

Revolution Cantina is described as: "$$ - $$$ Mexican Bar Latin Spanish Gluten Free Options"

So I'm guessing that's why they went there. 

[CoachWristletJen]

41 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I finally figured out who Molly is just like!  Have you seen Amber Portwood on Teen Mom?  Here's a photo.

http://people.com/tv/teen-mom-og-amber-portwood-ex-fiance-matt-baier-talks-broken-engagement-paying-price/

They even sound alike! Voice is like nails on a chalkboard.  It's weird.    What does Molly do?

I'm trying to figure out what Nicole wants Azan to say.  His body language screams, Get away.  I do not like you.  She shouldn't have put her hands on him. That is considered abuse.  I hope she gets educated on that. Wink. If he did that to her, we'd have a different show.  But, I doubt Nicole will learn much. I honestly wonder if she is capable.  Seriously, she may have some kind of disability.  At times, she has the expression of a 5 year old.

Molly = Amber = spot on!

Not sure of the source of the velociraptor screeches, but they would fit perfectly in How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. (A movie I've not seen.)

Nicole being developmentally delayed has been mentioned before and I think it bears bringing up again. She really does respond to life like a child, replete with tantrums and putting her hands on Azan which is so not okay! If she were five, that would be one thing, but she's a very large woman. Azan gets many points for not fighting back because he's strong and he could have. 

She responds to life like a child. Many of her reactions to things are temporary and she seems astonished that others have a more permanent reaction, like Azan to her cheating. Then she forgets again and has to be reminded again by his deep resentment.

Girl, he's just not that into you. Not sure what all his motives are, but they most certainly involve finances.

Two hackneyed answers for everything seem to be, "scripted" and/or "gay." 

Her mom responds by trash talking her and venting her frustrations about what a gigantic bully she is. And, while this is true, I don't think it's helping Nicole with her issues. (No doubt Grandma is very angry with Nicole for dragging May across the world in part as a punishment for mom not sponsoring love-toy Azan.)

Azan swears it would be different once he got to the United States. Um, doubtful. I think he's given up on a life with her there. He's pretty much just phoning it in.

Immature Nicole can't understand why things changed so much after she cheated a second time. How did he find out? Most likely, she TOLD him. To get attention. And, he's still upset. Imagine that. 

She's upset because they think she can't talk right. She can't. Now his family has drawn their own conclusions. They probably can't wait to get her out of their home. She's eating all of their biscuits. I'm sure every time she says anything, they start speaking rapidly back and forth in the Arabic equivalent of, "OMG, the blonde idiot did it again!"

Again, Nicole, get on the plane, don't look back, and don't breathe a word about politics in the process because I can only imagine. Actually, I don't want to.

Edited November 27, 2017 by CoachWristletJen

[Awfarmington]

19 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

Interesting slant.  I kind of thought that he might be gay and is a "virgin" in the usual definition of the word.  Not that there is anything wrong with being gay.

That was a very random guess, and mostly snark. But it seemed very odd for him to get so uncomfortable about it. My hubby was 23 and a virgin when we married. As we approached the wedding date, that's all he could talk about!

Secondly, the wedding night for a virgin male doesn't need to be talked about. It'll be over in 0.00000 seconds. 

[Normades]

3 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

Azan gets many points for not fighting back because he's strong and he could have. 

Yes!!  I felt awful for Azan.  He was so shut down during her tirade, plus having to continue to allow her to abuse him in a public place must have been more than he could stand.  This is a guy who gets upset when they are in public and she's loud and affectionate.  I really don't know much about their culture, but it seems that they are very private people and don't air their dirty laundry by yelling and screaming, etc.  He even said all she does is yell.  Plus, her "I want to talk," just boils down to Nicole wanting to complain and have Azan support whatever she thinks.  She doesn't care what Azan feels, needs or thinks.  It's all Nicole all the time.  He's tried to take her places and show her his beautiful country, but she is LAZY and all she wants to do is sleep and eat and not do any physical activity (except jumping Azan's bones!).  I kept hoping the Moroccan police would come by and arrest her for domestic abuse.  A few weeks in a foreign prison would do her good.  

I don't see how Nicole's family can support her over Azan.  They know what a horrible person she is.  It seems that Azan has actually tried to think of May and her health and future.  They should appreciate that.  Seriously, I hope Azan finds a nice girl and gets out of this train wreck!!

[Chickabiddy]

Every week it just gets harder and harder for me to process these train wrecks that are called relationships. I just may need therapy by the time we get to the reunion special. While I think a lot of this is producer driven, (all the relationships seem to be imploding at the same time) these are truly some of the shittiest people I have ever watched on TV.

Molly and Luis need to just call it a day. He is a slimy motherfucker with a real mean streak. Who talks about a 6 year old like that? And never mind that he is telegraphing signals all over the place that he does not want to get married. And WTF Molly, why are you harping ad nauseum about how Luis needs to parent and babysit YOUR kids. Girlfriend needs to hire a nanny and just keep the boy toy for the weekends and party time. His comments and behavior at the strip club were mean, manipulative misogynistic and controlling. Once he is married, he is going to rip through that  family like a wildfire and leave it and Molly a scorched wasteland. He may not even bolt after the three years are up because if you have your cash cow right where you want her under your thumb, why leave? His mean streak means he will stay around long enough to toy with Molly and her kids for his own sick amusement.

David and Evelyn and FAMILY- Watching David go at with Evelyn, Evelyn’s brother, Evelyn her  brother and her parents is like watching dueling factions of assholes. And there is some stiff competition for the title of supreme asshole. I have some sympathy for David because he is not on his home turf, he is not communicating in his native language, and it is often times an unfair fight with four on one. I can kind of forgive David for coming off as a douche because dealing with the Clampetts of New Hampshire has to be exhausting. David may be an elitist, but Evelyn’s whole clan are just ignorant elitists. They think that Claremont is the bestest place in whole world – and have NEVER lived anywhere else. How do you work with people like that? I loved Evelyn’s Mom’s argument – If you think Claremont is bad now, you should have seen it 10 years ago when it was a real shit hole. If you had, you would be so totally impressed with the apples, the one Mexican restaurant and all the for sale signs now. I mean, does she even listen to herself?  She should totally do the marketing for Claremont. “Come to Claremont. It’s less of a backwater than ever before.” The whole family is so fucking self absorbed by their wants, needs, comfort level. And how stupid is Solomon lecturing David on how evil he would be to take his sister away from him when that is exactly what his sister did to David. Again, can these people get out of their own assholes to actually listen to the shit they are spewing. “I have been to Switzerland. The airport is gorgeous.” I mean Jesus Christ, there would not be enough vodka in the whole of New Hampshire to keep me from going Nicole on these people.

And one last item before I go, the previews from next week show David getting all prudie when the talk of sex comes up. I think some serious sexual disfunction may be behind his decision to marry an 18 year old fundie virgin. Stay tuned.

And speaking of Nicole, maybe the reason that Mae is up half the night is because she is not getting enough physical or mental stimulation. We never see her outside or running around. And as others have noted, all she seems to have is that stupid tablet. No wonder she doesn’t sleep through the night with all that excess mental and physical energy pent up.

Annie and David – Antonio just needs to fall back. He had me up until the point that he started attacking Annie in the kitchen. Maybe he needs to spare me that righteous indignation and have a talk with his sister Nikki about the golden cage she got herself locked into with a guy whose money seems a little shady, a guy who moves his loser best friend and his wife into her house, a guy who is funding said loser’s never ending Magical Msystery Tour, and finally a guy who asks the 25 year old woman to give him Thai massages by the pool. Maybe Antonio should lay off Annie and help his own sister take a hard, appraising look at her own life.

Andrei and Libby - Her whole family is just so pissed off that Libby found someone else to control her, and they no longer get to tell her what to do all the time. Girls tend to marry their dads. And Andrei does seem to a take charge kind of guy with a controlling streak. With that said, he seems like the perfect match for Libby. He offers her that bit of control that she is used to/comfortable with, but he also seeks to empower her in the sense that he tells her they are in it together, and it is about the two of them and not her family. People all have different needs and Andrei and Libby seems to be a good match.  I do like Libby. She seems emotionally mature in the sense that she understands compromise and she is the only spouse on this shit show who seems to consider her SO's feelings and sacrifice. With that said, I have to crack up when one of her sisters said that Libby has her own goals and aspiration. Um, really, working for your dad part time at 27 does not really show you to be a hard driving go getter whose dreams could be derailed by some Boris Badenov caricature straight out of central casting for evil Eastern European dude. 

Aika can shoot a gun! I am so ready for her to get her green card, dump Josh and start fresh. I’ve said if before and I’ll say it again, Aika needs her own show. Talk about an hour of some fun, crazy straight talk about life and great target shooting at the range.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Chickabiddy

[AZChristian]

8 hours ago, Snewtsie said:

Has it been zero-zero-zero point zero seconds or zero point zero-zero-zero point seconds?

Ya know, when you can't even keep your zeroes straight, it doesn't say much for your intellect.

[brillia79]

23 minutes ago, millennium said:

I hadn't heard of that case.   Thanks for enlightening me.  Obviously that's a problem.

I'm not sure a single case of hatred or poor judgment by 13-year-olds is enough to call a community  a "sundown town," but at the same time I don't know enough about local attitudes, ordinances, real estate practices, etc. to deny it either.   The New England towns I grew up in were predominantly white.   I think the ethnic makeup was more a result of the hiring practices of local mills generations earlier rather than racism.   Almost everyone was a descendant of French-Canadian and Irish laborers, Portuguese, etc., who had been recruited to the area in the 19th century. 

A single publicized case of hatred. The idea to lynch a biracial kid didn't just fall out of the sky. Someone(s) gave them the idea that he didn't belong.

Exclusion of brown people in hiring practices is no accident either. Least of all when you consider racism in labor unions. Very little about demographics is accidental. Steering, redlining, restrictive covenants, sundown towns, etc. all functioned to maintain segregation.

The only thing I will back David Spain on is that Claremont sucks and how there are likely no career opportunities for him there.

He should've had one of his friends set him up with a woman in Virginia. Of legal age. Would've been better than marrying a small town girl who is clearly not ready to stray too far from the nest, and who may never be ready.

[Bryce Lynch]

35 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I used to record this and watch TWD.  Now it's the other way around.  These couples are way scarier than any zombie.

True, but TWD is more realistic. :)

[CoachWristletJen]

7 hours ago, Teddybear said:

I'd like to dissect the "Ninja turtle penguin batman ass bitch" insult.  What a weird hilarious string of random words!!  Penguin because David was wearing a black and white outfit?  We call him Baht-man here but I'm not thinking that was Antonio's intent. LOL.  I personally think he should have thrown Teletubby in the mix because that's what David looked like sitting with his legs in the pool looking completely wasted.  Annie has really grown on me---she seems so sweet and I am sad she may not have the wherewithal to leave his ninja turtle ass.  

David Pour did have the mindless kewpie smile of a Teletubby, but his body was kind of slovenly. The Teletubbies are a tidy, colorful bunch.

I think "penguin was a reference to his black and white outfit and his side-to-side waddle which I do believe is numbness caused by diabetes, another reason not to drink a drop, the first being the stroke, and then the very first being he makes an a$$ out of himself!

Annie is fleeing something pretty bad in Thailand to have hitched her wagon to this star. And for whatever reason she seems to have been conditioned into a kind of subserviency. For this and other reasons, I don't consider Nikki and her wonderfully verbal brother to be overly involved. Annie needs someone to be her voice until she learns to speak up for herself more. And, this commotion is going on in beautiful Nikki's kitchen so she does have a right to say something! After all, David insulted HER brother in HER kitchen after he was stuffed full on groceries SHE bought and paid for! (I didn't see David Pour doing any cooking, either. I didn't see him doing anything put padding to and fro and pouring vodka for himself.) 

Pretty sure Annie has jumped out of the fire and into the frying pan. That's why she's sticking with him. It's certainly not out of love; she's disgusted.

David Penguin might have been fibbing about his virility when he said that they "try every night" to make a baby because Annie immediately countered with a reasonable argument for not having one. Sounds like something they hadn't even discussed, let alone tried to do.

I get the feeling David Penguin lies like a rug.

Edited November 27, 2017 by CoachWristletJen

[Pondlass1]

I know a lot of the  bickering is set up by production, but the Azan/Nicole fight segment was the real thing.  The camera crew arrived right in the middle of the melee.  I don't understand why Azan doesn't just tell her to go home.  What's in it for him?  Why is he putting up with this? I don't sense that he's dead keen for the green card.  He seems content in his homeland, going to gym and coffee with friend.   I don't understand why he's putting up with her abuse?

Nicole: "Talk to me. Talk to me.  Why don't you talk to me?  Please talk to me. Stop walking away and talk to me"

Azan: "Ok, I'm talking - so listen.  I don't want to marry you.  Go home"

[calpurnia99]

4 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I know a lot of the  bickering is set up by production, but the Azan/Nicole fight segment was the real thing.  The camera crew arrived right in the middle of the melee.  I don't understand why Azan doesn't just tell her to go home.  What's in it for him?  Why is he putting up with this? I don't sense that he's dead keen for the green card.  He seems content in his homeland, going to gym and coffee with friend.   I don't understand why he's putting up with her abuse?

Nicole: "Talk to me. Talk to me.  Why don't you talk to me?  Please talk to me. Stop walking away and talk to me"

Azan: "Ok, I'm talking - so listen.  I don't want to marry you.  Go home"

I think he signed a contract and has to finish out the filming.

[SunnyBeBe]

Is Evelyn really a fundie?  I grew up fundie and they teach that the man makes the decisions in the family.  Of course, God leads, but, it's not a joint decision. The man rules. What's wrong with them questioning him on this. Wink.

Annie seems to know nothing about Alcoholism, if that is what David has.  You can't just turn it off.  It's complex, permanent and holding off drinking until the wedding solves nothing.  I mean, how does that help? He would just get drunk at the reception and then be a jerk for the remainder of the marriage.  I like her, but, she really is clueless. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Baltimore Betty]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Is Evelyn really a fundie?  I grew up fundie and they teach that the man makes the decisions in the family.  Of course, God leads, but, it's not a joint decision. The man rules. What's wrong with them questioning him on this. Wink.

Annie seems to know nothing about Alcoholism, if that is what David has.  You can't just turn it off.  It's complex, permanent and holding off drinking until the wedding solves nothing.  I mean, how does that help? He would just get drunk at the reception and then be a jerk for the remainder of the marriage.  I like her, but, she really is clueless. 

I know!  I thought the same thing, what does she think will happen once they say their I do's?  David will have to get a job just to pay for his booze so maybe that would be motivation for getting a job.

When they were all sitting around to hot tub I looked at David and there her was, overweight, sloppy drunk, unemployed, living off of his friend, I just don't get it.  If my two choices were poverty with David or poverty without David, I would have to pick without.  Annie has NOTHING to gain by getting married to David.  I hope her family is happy with the money and jewelry they traded their daughter for.

[CoachWristletJen]

12 hours ago, Nowhere said:

Josh, your best friend is a douche. That's probably why he's treated like one. And if he's spent sooooo much money on her, maybe a little of that money should have been spent on her own damn ring. What? Is Aika the only woman in the world who wanted a ring when she got engaged? 

Josh is one of these people who presents a slanted version of the disagreement to his friends, and just disses and disses the partner, and then turns to the partner and says, "My friends don't like you because I've been running you into the ground like a dog but give them time." WTF, dude?

I'd rather have a ring out of a gumball machine than one that was on the finger of his ex-wife. 

Lest we forget, likable Aika wouldn't be with him if not for the green card.

Edited November 27, 2017 by CoachWristletJen

[SunnyBeBe]

I think she wanted to be the first in her town to go to Hollywood. That's how she described it.  So, remind me, who is sponsoring Annie? Is it David's friend? 

I couldn't figure out why Nicole's father decided to sponsor Azan. ODD. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[alegtostandon]

Re: Evelyn and David Spain...only thing I can think of is he is so tired of hearing how perfect it is in "Grover's Corners", he is starting to verbalize why it's not. "Aren't these the most beautiful mountains you've ever seen!?". "The mountains in Switzerland are better.".  I could just imagine Evelyn telling David Spain that her parents were talking them to a Mexican restaurant to make him feel at home, prompting the comment about Mexican/Spanish food being different. I loved the way the brother thought he was going to guilt David by saying moving would not only affect their band, but he'd be taking away his only sister...his only sibling. David responded by reminding him he left his only sister too. If Evelyn is too young to be moving away from her family, she's way too young and immature to get married.

Re: Anna/David Poor...Anna, never give an ultimatum to an alcoholic unless you plan on following thru. Like another poster said, when she told him no drinking till their wedding, I imagined him counting the days, then watch out wedding night! All deals are off then. She deserves so much better than the drunk Pillsbury Dough Boy. 

Re: Nicole & Azin (?)...Azin, Nicole wants you to talk to her...talk to her & be honest, you have no interest in her. The next time she lays a hand on you in anger, call the authorities. I cannot believe production allowed her to be so violent.

Re: Molly & Luis...Luis does not want to marry her. He thought he was getting an extended vacation Molly. He is actually mourning his single life. He does not like her kids and they do not like him.  When she was heading out for her bachelorette party-I thought she said she was dressed as a drag queen, lol!

Re: Elizabeth & (I can't think of his name)...I thought her sisters were extremely rude. They had no interest at all in getting to know him. Their goal was to bully him and their sister into doing a Bachelorette party.   They never asked him about himself, his interests, etc. Bully Sister offered to help Elizabeth lie to her future husband, after making the statement  '...when my boyfriend goes out of town, I like to do a girls night out...'. So, she waits for him to go out of town.  Their statement also about how much Elizabeth's changed & what a strong, driven, independent woman she was contradicts what dad said last week

[Baltimore Betty]

Okay Molly Bra Fitter...what kind of advertisement is that for your bra shop expertise when your wearing a regular bra with that red shirt that clearly requires a strapless bra.

[CoachWristletJen]

9 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I couldn't figure out why Nicole's father decided to sponsor Azan. ODD. 

My guess is that it was to get at Nicole's mother.

If they really wanted Azan out of the picture, all they'd need to do is refuse to sponsor him. Nicole would call him and say, "Azan, baby, guess what? Break out the biscuits because May and I are coming to live with you in Morocco permanently!"

Azan would cancel his social media accounts so quickly her head would spin.

[AZChristian]

Maybe Luis should go back to the DR and hook up with Abby from "Before the 90 Days."  He's younger than her current beau(s), and she's prettier than his.  Plus, she also sells underwear!!!  The two of them could probably live comfortably on his job as a bartender, and her job as a bar girl.

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, Lily247 said:

If my husband explicitly tells me not to do something that would bother him, I listen and respect his wishes. I personally believe that men were designed to be in charge and make final decisions for their families, and that marriages tend thrive when this is in place, maybe this is no longer a popular opinion, but it is mine.

Bolding mine, I agree.  Strip clubs or extreme hairstyles or tattoos or ordering food with onions or going to crowded places alone or surfing whatever -- if it bothers your spouse, you don't do it.  If it was more important to you than your spouse, you wouldn't have married them.  Expecting people not to be upset about things that don't upset you is a surefire way to end up disappointed.  

Freedom to love and marry who you want is a wonderful thing.  Choosing a spouse isn't all that different than choosing a pet - if you want a puppy, make sure you're ready to clean up messes and get your shoes chewed on and deal with some crying at night.  If you want a cat, make sure you're ready to give it personal space and have a giant box of stink sitting in your bathroom.   But you do not get to adopt a St. Bernard then blame her for having 10 lb. bowel movements; you do not get to blame the dog you chose for being the dog it was when you chose it.  Elizabeth knew what she was getting with Andrei-- I'm not sure Andrei knew what he was getting with Elizabeth.

[Baltimore Betty]

I loved David Spain wondering out loud if Evelyn's parents know the difference between Spain and Spanish food verses Mexico and Mexican food.  My answer would be no they do not.

[calpurnia99]

Antonio pissed me off. He starts yelling at Annie: "If you don't like this, and if this is supposed to be your husband, you gotta open you mouth and tell him"  Annie says: I say a lot, I try to talk to him about it" Antonio: So why you ain't doin nuthin about it"? - I mean he is laying into Annie, like it is her fault.  He loved himself on camera. He was drunk too.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

A single publicized case of hatred. The idea to lynch a biracial kid didn't just fall out of the sky. Someone(s) gave them the idea that he didn't belong.

Exclusion of brown people in hiring practices is no accident either. Least of all when you consider racism in labor unions. Very little about demographics is accidental. Steering, redlining, restrictive covenants, sundown towns, etc. all functioned to maintain segregation.

The only thing I will back David Spain on is that Claremont sucks and how there are likely no career opportunities for him there.

He should've had one of his friends set him up with a woman in Virginia. Of legal age. Would've been better than marrying a small town girl who is clearly not ready to stray too far from the nest, and who may never be ready.

There might be racism in Claremont, but there has never been a large minority population in NH, or VT or ME for that matter.  Actually, the non-white population of NH tripled from 2% to 6% between 1990 and 2010.  If racism was rampant up there, I doubt more minorities than ever would be moving there.   The low number of blacks in that region is probably largely due to the very low number of slaves.  The highest number of slaves in a Census in NH was 157 (0.1% of the population) in 1790.  Nearly, all the blacks in NH would be have to have migrated north, to a rural area, or be descendants of such migrants.  Most of the blacks who migrated North moved to big cities like Chicago, Detroit, NYC, etc., where work could be found,  as opposed to rural areas in the North.  

[EDTV]

8 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I got really strange vibes from Luis this episode. He is a mind fucker and has a mean streak. If Molly doesn't wake up, he's going to have her selling her business, selling her house, and leaving her kids with their dads so he can drag her back to his beloved DR which is exactly where he wants her. 

he wants a green card, i seriously doubt his goal in this is to bring home an overweight, rough looking, mid 40's woman with 2 kids to support and still be living in DR. Why not just stay in DR then and get a younger, attractive woman?

[AZChristian]

2 minutes ago, calpurnia99 said:

Antonio pissed me off. He starts yelling at Annie: "If you don't like this, and if this is supposed to be your husband, you gotta open you mouth and tell him"  Annie says: I say a lot, I try to talk to him about it" Antonio: So why you ain't doin nuthin about it"? - I mean he is laying into Annie, like it is her fault.  He loved himself on camera. He was drunk too.

I felt so badly for Annie.  She wasn't crying because David was drunk.  She was crying because everyone else in the room knew it, and they would not let her feel her emotions internally and privately . . . they embarrassed her more than David did.

[Neurochick]

11 hours ago, brillia79 said:

The leader that a country chooses through an electoral process is that country's representative on the world stage. Sorry, but we're gonna have to take the L on this one for the next few or several years overseas.

Marrying or sleeping with a brown ass person doesn't mean a person doesn't harbor racial resentment against other brown ass people. See: Thurmond, Strom. Oh, and a whole host of slaveowners. I've met more than a few interracial couples that leave me scratching my head with confusion.

Thank you for saying that.  Just because someone wants to marry a brown person, doesn't mean they're not a bigot.  

Azan needs to tell Nicole to go home; she acted more like a toddler than May.  "Talk to me Azan, please talk to me, why won't you talk to me.  SHIT, talk to MEEEEE." 

[TwirlyGirly]

11 hours ago, brillia79 said:

<snip> I take Nicole's proclamation that Azan saying she is racist because she said Trump is president with a grain of salt. Azan isn't stupid like Nicole and I suspect there was more to this conversation.

And in the end, Nicole is still an abuser.

I went back and watched this segment again, with the closed captioning on, and Nicole never claimed Azan said anything about Trump:

Producer: Nicole, what's really happening with you guys?

Nicole: Oh my God, he worries about everything I say. I swear to God, he can't even look at me as a single person. I'm just a bunch of - a group of Americans. I'm just American to him. [Bleep] Trump is our president, I'm a [bleep] racist. I say something about the bootleg DVD's, I'm making fun of their culture. Like it's something everything I say is a [bleep] insult to him. And apparently everyone else that just wants to talk about me because apparently I'm a horrible person and he can't see me the way I am, the way I've always been to him, the way I am to him. He doesn't defend me at all. I defend him to my family. I don't let everything be seen. I even tried to make sure that everything is fine. Because I love him and I want everything....[dissolves into tears]

So, what Nicole said about Trump being president equating to her being a racist may very well be just Nicole's justification for why she thinks Azan is treating her the way he is, as opposed to anything Azan actually said. I truly believe Nicole plucked that from what's been in the media since the election, and decided to co-opt for herself as a convenient excuse. Nicole does have a habit of assigning blame for whatever befalls her on everybody and everything other than herself.

We all recognized and acknowledged early on Nicole did absolutely nothing to prepare herself to live in Morocco (and I'm saying "live," because when you're spending a month or two in a foreign country, especially if you're staying with a native family, it is much more like living there than if you're on vacation for a couple of weeks and staying in a hotel). That's on HER. It's not even like she'd have to get up from the bed and go to the library and hunt for books, for crying out loud. A few clicks on her laptop and she'd have access to everything she needed to know about Morocco, Islam, and the culture and traditions she'd be expected comply with as a guest of a Moroccan family for an extended period of time. She did none of that. Instead, she seems to think (because she's an American - IRONY!) they should make allowances for her.

That's not how it works.

A hotel has to cater to visitors from different countries/cultures and thus will be more relaxed in terms of imposing cultural norms. You cannot expect that when staying with a family for a lengthy period of time. Your behavior as a visitor may potentially reflect badly on the family hosting you. You get to go back home; they have to continue to live there.

Nicole is so self-centered this never occurred to her. It's all about Nicole and what Nicole wants, all the time.

And yes, Nicole is abusive. She shoved Azan  - hard - at least four times in the segment I watched a second time. There is NO justification for that.

[Bryce Lynch]

51 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Is Evelyn really a fundie?  I grew up fundie and they teach that the man makes the decisions in the family.  Of course, God leads, but, it's not a joint decision. The man rules. What's wrong with them questioning him on this. Wink.

Annie seems to know nothing about Alcoholism, if that is what David has.  You can't just turn it off.  It's complex, permanent and holding off drinking until the wedding solves nothing.  I mean, how does that help? He would just get drunk at the reception and then be a jerk for the remainder of the marriage.  I like her, but, she really is clueless. 

The term "fundie" is not a particularly helpful or meaningful one.  Historically, Fundamentalist Christians are simply ones who hold fast to certain fundamentals of the faith.  

From what I could glean from their website and snippets from a couple of sermons, her church seems to be a solidly, but not radically, conservative, fairly traditional Evangelical church with Reformed leanings.  The pastor mentioned growing up in a Fundamentalist church in one of his sermons, contrasting it to their church, so they don't identify as "Fundamentalist".  

While mileage varies from church to church, the idea of woman being submissive in most Evangelical and Fundamentalist churches is based upon Ephesians chapter 5 and is about a woman respecting her husband and generally giving him the final say, but in no way about a man lording over a woman and bossing her around.  The husband is supposed to love his wife as Christ loved the church.  He suffered and died for His church and cherishes and nourishes it.  

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body,[d]of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”[e] 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. - Ephesians 5:22-32

 

As for Annie.  I think challenging David Poor to not drink until the wedding is a pretty good test to see if he is really an alcoholic.  If he can do it, he probably is not, but if he can't abstain until the wedding he very likely is.  

Edited November 27, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[LisaWl7TR]

Fun Fact - Most people pay for their apples before eating them.

[calpurnia99]

Libby's sister: If you guys live together you are going to have problems- it's gonna be a mess- and I'm excited to watch it. 

What a bitch! I know when I first was in love like they are, I was excited to start our life. I had a lot of happy expectation. Of course there were problems, but to have a relative gloat about it? 

[Baltimore Betty]

8 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

He doesn't defend me at all. I defend him to my family.

Red flag #1, if you need to defend someone to your family you should probably reassess the situation.

 

9 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I love him

What on earth would you love about this man, he is clearly repulsed by you and runs to the nearest cafe every chance he gets.  I am begging Nicole gets a clue and packs her bags.

May was very aware that Mommy was fighting with Daddy.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, LisaWl7TR said:

Fun Fact - Most people pay for their apples before eating them.

True.  I doubt they were stealing the apples, though.  They probably paid for a few extras to eat on camera during the apple picking for the show.  BTW, another fun fact - Most people wash their apples before eating them. :)

[calpurnia99]

11 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I went back and watched this segment again, with the closed captioning on, and Nicole never claimed Azan said anything about Trump:

Producer: Nicole, what's really happening with you guys?

Nicole: Oh my God, he worries about everything I say. I swear to God, he can't even look at me as a single person. I'm just a bunch of - a group of Americans. I'm just American to him. [Bleep] Trump is our president, I'm a [bleep] racist. I say something about the bootleg DVD's, I'm making fun of their culture. Like it's something everything I say is a [bleep] insult to him. And apparently everyone else that just wants to talk about me because apparently I'm a horrible person and he can't see me the way I am, the way I've always been to him, the way I am to him. He doesn't defend me at all. I defend him to my family. I don't let everything be seen. I even tried to make sure that everything is fine. Because I love him and I want everything....[dissolves into tears]

So, what Nicole said about Trump being president equating to her being a racist may very well be just Nicole's justification for why she thinks Azan is treating her the way he is, as opposed to anything Azan actually said. I truly believe Nicole plucked that from what's been in the media since the election, and decided to co-opt for herself as a convenient excuse. Nicole does have a habit of assigning blame for whatever befalls her on everybody and everything other than herself.

I don't think it is a justification- I think he has actually said this to her. What she meant is Azan says things like "your president is Trump, he is American, he is a racist, therefore you are a racist too." I have had the same thing said to me when I was abroad this summer.  I've had Italians blame me for everything wrong in America. She was trying to say, in her limited way, that Azan lays into her because Trump is president, as if it is her fault. But if she says anything to him about something fucked up in his culture, then she is being disrespectful.  He is saying "because Trump is president, you Nicole are a racist" 

8 minutes ago, LisaWl7TR said:

Fun Fact - Most people pay for their apples before eating them.

They did pay. They walked into the store and you see them handing over cash and given an empty bag. I guess you can fill the bag for a certain price. 

[Baltimore Betty]

David, Evelyn and Brother Evelyn chomping on the apples made me sick, that noise, UGH! I have heard horses chew quieter then those Claremontians, lol.  I am sure the orchard agreed to a few free apples for a little screen time.  

Evelyn may like her Claremont apples but she should try a Stayman Winesap, Fuji or a Honeycrisp apple, those are amazing.  Poor girl is missing out.  

Did Brother Evelyn accompany them to the orchard because she has to be chaperoned?

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, calpurnia99 said:

I don't think it is a justification- I think he has actually said this to her. What she meant is Azan says things like "your president is Trump, he is American, he is a racist, therefore you are a racist too." I have had the same thing said to me when I was abroad this summer.  I've had Italians blame me for everything wrong in America. She was trying to say, in her limited way, that Azan lays into her because Trump is president, as if it is her fault. But if she says anything to him about something fucked up in his culture, then she is being disrespectful.  He is saying "because Trump is president, you Nicole are a racist" 

They did pay. They walked into the store and you see them handing over cash and given an empty bag. I guess you can fill the bag for a certain price. 

Yes, I never take Nicole's side, and I'm not sure if she was telling the full story.  But, she was saying that Azan attributes stereotypes he has about Americans to her.  Even if you assume Trump is racist, less than 50% of voters voted for him (and a much lower percentage of eligible voters) and a large percentage who did a) did not think he was racist and/or b) voted for him as the perceived lesser of 2 evils.  

2 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

David, Evelyn and Brother Evelyn chomping on the apples made me sick, that noise, UGH! I have heard horses chew quieter then those Claremontians, lol.  I am sure the orchard agreed to a few free apples for a little screen time.  

Evelyn may like her Claremont apples but she should try a Stayman Winesap, Fuji or a Honeycrisp apple, those are amazing.  Poor girl is missing out.  

Did Brother Evelyn accompany them to the orchard because she has to be chaperoned?

I love  Honeycrisp apples.  I think they were pretty rare when we used to get them apple picking with the kids, on Eastern Long Island.  Now I see them in the supermarkets.  

I was also wondering if  Brother Evelyn was there as a chaperone or so David Spain would have another person to disrespect Claremont and its produce to.  Probably a bit of both.  

[CoachWristletJen]

I get that Nikki and her brother were rough with Annie, but I do think it came from a good place. They were trying to get her to wake up and smell the coffee. 

Annie has a small window of time to get away from him or it's going to be more difficult. I don't think Nikki and her brother realize that she must be running away from something pretty bleak. Either way, Annie doesn't seem to understand anything about alcoholism, and if she's going to put her foot down, it's best that she do it now, while she has backup. Sure, they could have been a whole lot more gentle in their approach, but David had just made another big stink, and they were pissed. It was a fine way he had of thanking them for everything they had done! (And, that's another element of Annie's new reality she's going to have to get used to -- couch surfing.)

Nicole, everything you say and do is wrong because I think at this point, Azan literally cannot stand the sight, the sound, the smell of you! He's on that bus with his eyes closed trying to imagine himself anyplace else, but cooped up with you listening to the sound of your shrieking voice and looking over at the sight of your contorted face as it whines and rages. He loathes you. He'll do anything to get away with you and avoid spending time with you, and you're too dumb to see it. Leave, already, and get your poor daughter out of there! 

I don't think it's politics. I think it's pure, unadulterated resentment towards Nicole and her pushiness.

The more you push yourself onto him, the more he will despise you. It's even worse than last time.  And, he is trying. The fact that he still forces himself to be in the same room with you... you don't realize the effort that takes.

Ugh, I have a "friend" from school who has been getting on my last nerve lately and the more she sulks and gets moody the worse it is. Thank goodness she is sulking and giving me the silent treatment right now!

And getting in doorways and blocking his way, grabbing his jacket? WTF? 

At least Azan can outrun her, and he figured that out by trotting up the steps.

Edited November 27, 2017 by CoachWristletJen

[Normades]

36 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

As for Annie.  I think challenging David Poor to not drink until the wedding is a pretty good test to see if he is really an alcoholic.  If he can do it, he probably is not, but if he can't abstain until the wedding he very likely is.  

All I could think of is that abstaining could actually be dangerous to David Poor if he is indeed an alcoholic.  The DTs are no joke.  If he does have a serious problem and tries to cut back, I hope he does it safely.

[SunnyBeBe]

Just now, Normades said:

All I could think of is that abstaining could actually be dangerous to David Poor if he is indeed an alcoholic.  The DTs are no joke.  If he does have a serious problem and tries to cut back, I hope he does it safely.

Good point.  Annie doesn't seem to realize that an alcoholic will easily lie, defend, deflect, use, and fake it when it comes to their disease.  An alcoholic's promise, without some serious treatment and care, is not really something you can put much faith in.  She seems to never had encountered it before.  She's in for a rude awakening. 

[Baltimore Betty]

Nicole and Azan have definitely crossed over in to Danielle and Mohammed territory. 

What happened to Nicole telling her mother that if Azan did not treat her nicely etc...she would leave.

Nobody believes that Nicole really cheated on Azan, right?  

[Former Nun]

On 11/24/2017 at 3:44 PM, Jeanne222 said:

I wish they would show and tell us more about her business

www.liviraelingerie.com    There are several YouTube videos.  Just search "Livi Rae."

Edited November 27, 2017 by Former Nun