Season 5 Discussion

[Real Eyes]

9 hours ago, brillia79 said:

And I question any spouse that insists you can't do something like go out with friends and doing things without said spouse being present that don't involve adultery. 

This is controlling. On top of demonstrating a lack of trust.

No, it’s not about going out with friends. My husband is from Ukraine and refers to clubs as “viper pits”.  It’s about going to a club. If she were meeting a friend for tea, he would have no issue. 

[DangerousMinds]

No marriage is the same. All husbands and wives aren't the same. Some may be fine with their spouse going out without them, it's not a universal thing.

[Real Eyes]

17 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

No marriage is the same. All husbands and wives aren't the same. Some may be fine with their spouse going out without them, it's not a universal thing.

But it doesn’t mean a spouse who doesn’t approve is controlling. 

[brillia79]

1 hour ago, Real Eyes said:

No, it’s not about going out with friends. My husband is from Ukraine and refers to clubs as “viper pits”.  It’s about going to a club. If she were meeting a friend for tea, he would have no issue. 

She's going to clubs with friends and her sisters. A husband who tells his wife she can't go somewhere is a controlling husband. Club or tea room. Eastern European or American.

Furthermore, how does a husband plan to enforce his no club edict? What's the punishment for breaking this decree?

Edited November 22, 2017 by brillia79

[athousandclowns]

On November 19, 2017 at 9:56 PM, Nowhere said:

I think once you give heirloom jewelry to someone it is theirs. In this case it was right for the ex to give it back to Josh, but it will always be his first wife's ring now, even if it is not in her possession. This is why you should think through who you give your special ring to. If they had a kid together it should be given to the kid. If not then, he's shit out of luck. 

I gave my old engagement ring to my daughter and she wears it on her pinky. I couldn't imagine putting it back on if another man proposes to me. How would that man feel knowing I wanted to wear my old engagement ring given to me by my ex? Same principle.

Approximately 100 years ago my ex asked for my engagement ring back so he could give it to the woman he was engaged to. ( Refresher why I divorced him)  I had to tell him she would frown upon that. Hadn't thought about that in years. 

All these couples are doomed. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

She's going to clubs with friends and her sisters. A husband who tells his wife she can't go somewhere is a controlling husband. Club or tea room. Eastern European or American.

I’m in my early 50s and when I was in my early 20s, I was in a LTR with a Ukrainian about 20 years my senior.  He told me that in the former Soviet Union, there were places women didn’t go on their own to.  Any woman who dined alone was considered a hooker.  When I told him I wanted to invite another Russian Lady in her 30s to lunch, he told me that “Ludmilla might be shocked because women in Russia didn’t go out to restaurants without male companions.”  Of course, he was all for it being okay to do as one pleased here.  Because of our age gap, he had no issue with me going to concerts or clubs with friends. He would pick me up for my safety if it was going to be late.  

I think as a bouncer, Andrei saw much bad behavior, and certainly the club culture in Moldova may be seen as distasteful or unsafe for women to be going  out.  I’m only guessing why he would object. Clubs here can be pretty tame, but it depends on what kind of club, the age demographic, and how the crowd that goes behaves. 

[Splithair]

1 hour ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I took a look at images of Granada, and I can see why David Spain thinks Claremont sucks.  Leaving all that culture behind for Miss Fun Facts.

They don’t seem to have a lot of chemistry, but that could  be restraint. They aren’t savin* kissing for the wedding.  They have kissed on camera, but it’s tasteful and not gross like Luis and Molly’s canoodling.

I really would love to see footage of the trip she took to Spain. There are just some things that don't line up with the story we've been fed:

1.Evelyn comes across as so sheltered, yet she traveled across the world (presumably alone) to meet a guy she met on the internet. 

2.Parents Evelyn were cool with the trip, despite her age, immaturity, sheltered-ness, their religious beliefs, etc.

3.Where did she stay on this trip? Did Pastor David or Family David have a spare room for her to stay in? Was there a chaperone of some sort?

4.Totally stereotypical and dumb American question - I realize Spain is a big country, but there was a lot of talk during the Before the 90 Days season about Antonio and Spanish men, their flirtiness, and charm..I get none of that from David. Zero. Antonio didn't speak English as well and could be an ass at times, but he was not nearly as blunt. David's bluntness aligns more with Andrei. Actually, this one isn't a question, but rather an observation. 

[Former Nun]

3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

On 11/20/2017 at 7:51 PM, Bubbles1967 said:

I can’t stand  to hear Elizabeth and Andreee “baby baby baby” ugh. I hate that term of endearment.

Babe is fine. Baby...nope.

Im sure someone said this but he reminds me of a Bond villain.  The big tall guy with the metal teeth...don’t know the characters name.

Ha! I feel the opposite and hate "babe."

DangerousMinds wrote that (sometimes a quote within a quote is confusing here).  I dislike the constant use of either endearment and would like to add that even worse is, "Bae."    

[brillia79]

11 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Any woman who dined alone was considered a hooker.

Yeah... we don't go along with that here. But what a great way to restrict women's freedom with their own participation. Tell them that engaging in basic activities without an approved male chaperone will get them labeled as whores.

Were the women actually hookers though? Or were they just hungry women who wanted to eat out but didn't have a man around for cover?

Call me a whore, but I'll be the whore not cooking dinner/washing dishes that night.

[BeachyWave]

11 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

even worse is, "Bae."    

Thanks for making me bulimic

[mamadrama]

5 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

Wow the stuff you learn on P.tv. I always imagined New Hampshire  being as flat as a pancake...guess not.

I spent a summer working at a resort near Wolfeboro, New Hampshire. (The place they had me living in was totally haunted and I wrote a book about my experience there, but that's another story.) I am from eastern Kentucky and thought I'd lived in the mountains-until I moved to New Hampshire... The White Mountains contain some of the most magnificent scenery I've ever seen. 

[Squirrely]

6 hours ago, PityFree said:

 If I remember correctly, David Spain mentioned that he had friends who lived in Virginia.

Yep, he sure did. It sounded like they are people he knows from Spain who have acclimated well to that area. 

[Nowhere]

2 hours ago, brillia79 said:

She's going to clubs with friends and her sisters. A husband who tells his wife she can't go somewhere is a controlling husband. Club or tea room. Eastern European or American.

Furthermore, how does a husband plan to enforce his no club edict? What's the punishment for breaking this decree?

It's just a matter of respect for what your partner is comfortable with. I don't think it's about rules or control. I am absolutely uncomfortable with my partner going to strip clubs for example. It's a deal breaker for me. I'm not trying to be controlling. I just find it inappropriate for a person in a relationship. And any potential mate is free to not be with me if he doesn't like that I'm not down with him getting a lap dance from another woman. 

Men in dance clubs are often trying to find women to bring home or at least mess with while they're at the club. I can see why a man wouldn't want his wife put in that position. If Elizabeth doesn't care enough about Andrei to respect that simple request then she's free to find someone who doesn't care if she goes to clubs.

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why this compromise is such a big deal. Everybody has to compromise in a relationship.

1 hour ago, Splithair said:

I really would love to see footage of the trip she took to Spain. There are just some things that don't line up with the story we've been fed:

1.Evelyn comes across as so sheltered, yet she traveled across the world (presumably alone) to meet a guy she met on the internet. 

2.Parents Evelyn were cool with the trip, despite her age, immaturity, sheltered-ness, their religious beliefs, etc.

3.Where did she stay on this trip? Did Pastor David or Family David have a spare room for her to stay in? Was there a chaperone of some sort?

4.Totally stereotypical and dumb American question - I realize Spain is a big country, but there was a lot of talk during the Before the 90 Days season about Antonio and Spanish men, their flirtiness, and charm..I get none of that from David. Zero. Antonio didn't speak English as well and could be an ass at times, but he was not nearly as blunt. David's bluntness aligns more with Andrei. Actually, this one isn't a question, but rather an observation. 

Maybe it was a mission trip. A lot of devout Christians take trips like that but idk of Spain is a popular destination for missions. Or did she meet David online before the trip? For some reason i thought she met him on a trip. I'm probably getting them mixed up with another season. Never mind. Scratch all that from the record. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Nowhere

[Real Eyes]

1 hour ago, brillia79 said:

Yeah... we don't go along with that here. But what a great way to restrict women's freedom with their own participation. Tell them that engaging in basic activities without an approved male chaperone will get them labeled as whores.

Were the women actually hookers though? Or were they just hungry women who wanted to eat out but didn't have a man around for cover?

Call me a whore, but I'll be the whore not cooking dinner/washing dishes that night.

People there don’t go to restaurants the same way they do in the West. That’s changing now. However because of that, your attitude is an example of the cultural chasm. No one who knows women from that part of the world would ever suggest  they are oppressed or restricted in their freedoms. 

2 hours ago, brillia79 said:

She's going to clubs with friends and her sisters. A husband who tells his wife she can't go somewhere is a controlling husband. Club or tea room. Eastern European or American.

Furthermore, how does a husband plan to enforce his no club edict? What's the punishment for breaking this decree?

Does a married woman really have to go to clubs?  To Vegas?  

It’s about respect. Lack of respect, no happy marriage. That goes both ways, in areas that are important to your partner and to you.   If you don’t want to compromise, don’t get married. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Real Eyes

[Former Nun]

16 minutes ago, Real Eyes said:

Does a married woman really have to go to clubs?  To Vegas?  

Does a married man?

[Real Eyes]

No. It’s stupid from both sides. 

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, Real Eyes said:

Does a married woman really have to go to clubs?  To Vegas?  

Sure, why not? You don't "have" to go anymore than you "have" to eat ice cream or wear high heels or watch "90 Dy Fiance" but it you like doing it and want to, then why not?

I've been married for 12 years and we have 2 kids. I still go out dancing with my girlfriends. My husband could come if he wanted but he's not really into big groups of people so he chooses to stay home. But he also thinks that it's GOOD for me to have "girl time" and there have been instances in which I've tried to get him to come with us and he's declined because he thinks I need some time alone with the gals. And Vegas? Heck yeah! My mother and I went together not that long ago, just the two of us. Just me and Mom, watching male strippers, throwing back mai tais, and gambling next to each other. Heck, my husband bought my plane ticket. 

I love my husband. We've been through the 90 day fiance visa program together. We've also survived the death of his mother, my brain surgery, the death of our youngest son, job losses, depression, long-distance moves, and cutting the cable cord. Some people claim they've rarely seen us apart. We have a strong marriage and a life together that we love, but we're also two separate individuals. We have our own interests and sometimes those don't gel. I truly believe that the reason we've been married for so long, and been able to survive so many obstacles in our relationship, is because we trust each other and are supportive of one another. 

[Bubbles1967]

Evelyn has to realize that David is probably going to be the main breadwinner. Unless she’s going to go to college, it sounds like she is relying on her singing (god help us) as a career.

I don’t know anything about NH but what kind of prospects would David have there career wise? It’s not exactly NYC.

VA may be better for him.

They should have thought about all of this. But they are planning to live on love... that will pay for everything ?

[Christina]

I searched this forum for comments that Luis should go to jail and the only hit was the response to me in this thread. Then, I started to scroll through the thread pages individually and after a few pages, decided I wasn't going to keep searching for a quote I don't ever remember reading, just to check the context, when it ultimately doesn't matter. If someone thinks Luis' behavior crossed into contacting officials territory, I'm certainly not going to tell them they are wrong and it wouldn't be the first time the search of this forum has failed me. 

Even though I don't think it's went that far, and don't remember anyone calling him a pedophile, I do think he has been pushing and has crossed boundaries, which has been said. His behavior has been completely inappropriate and what really concerned me was Molly discussing with him that he went too far with his conversation with Olivia, having him completely dismiss her, and Molly just dropping it. I'm not willing to hang a flashing neon sign above his head saying, "Possible predator here," yet anyway, but it might be coming before the season is over. 

Some of you are uncomfortable with comments about him being inappropriate with the kids or what is perceived as claims that he will be sexual toward them, and others of us are not willing to pretend his behavior is just some cultural difference or solely at the feet of production, even though I do believe they keep their fingers in the pot. It looks like this might be a difference of opinion that cannot be reconciled right now. At this point, I can't say that I think he is going to sexually abuse or manipulate one of these girls or any other child, but I do believe that he is going to continue to make them uncomfortable in an effort to get rid of them and that the way he is doing that is by using behaviors that should not be ignored, but Molly is and will continue to do so. I wish I didn't see his actions as concerning, but I do; I don't however, think he is necessarily a pedophile, just an asshole like his future bride.

There was a comment about discussing Luis but not Azan and I can say, for me, it's because I tired of the Nicole/Azan story last season, and barely pay attention to them during this one. I completely missed that Azan is changing May's diapers and that is also completely inappropriate. IIRC, everyone agreed that May calling Azan, "Daddy" was wrong, but some wondered if she would understand that wasn't his name but a position in a family. Nicole is trash and if Azan didn't change May's diapers she would probably never get changed. I think he is in a no-win position when it comes to May because of Nicole and her unwillingness to take care of her own child. We can add that to the list of things about Nicole that should transfer custody to Robbie. Is there anyone here that doesn't think Nicole would put May at risk for abuse (sexual, physical and/or mental) as long as she got the man she wanted? I absolutely think she would, but until she does, there isn't anything anyone can do about it. 

Molly has put Luis in a similar no-win as far as babysitting or playing with Kensey is concerned, but he is responsible for his behavior toward her. He doesn't want to be responsible for watching her, he doesn't want to be her primary babysitter, and the way to make that stop is to make her decide she doesn't want to be around him. He's been pretty successful in his actions, so far. Azan hasn't done anything that makes me concerned about May being in his care but I can't say the same about Luis.  He still doesn't have any business changing her diaper, though, and shouldn't have accepted May calling him Daddy. That should have been shut down immediately, and I don't believe he doesn't know any better.

The only reason I think Azan is "with" Nicole is to be paid by the show. He doesn't like her, he doesn't want her, and America is not worth having to put up with her. Right now, he is getting money from Sharp Entertainment and her will be gone as soon as the money dries up. If he is approved for his K-1, I think he'll bail before hooking himself to Nicole, not even for two years and not even for whatever he would get paid from the show. Nicole will have another "Daddy" in the picture as soon as she can, and this behavior will rotate until she lands a man that will put up with her, because she won't want one that actually likes her for her; she's going to continue searching for a "trophy." 

[brillia79]

6 hours ago, Nowhere said:

It's just a matter of respect for what your partner is comfortable with. I don't think it's about rules or control. I am absolutely uncomfortable with my partner going to strip clubs for example. It's a deal breaker for me. I'm not trying to be controlling. I just find it inappropriate for a person in a relationship. And any potential mate is free to not be with me if he doesn't like that I'm not down with him getting a lap dance from another woman. 

Men in dance clubs are often trying to find women to bring home or at least mess with while they're at the club. I can see why a man wouldn't want his wife put in that position. If Elizabeth doesn't care enough about Andrei to respect that simple request then she's free to find someone who doesn't care if she goes to clubs.

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why this compromise is such a big deal. Everybody has to compromise in a relationship.

Men are trying to find women for sex everywhere. As we've seen in the media lately, it happens in the workplace rather frequently.

There's also a world of difference between a nightclub and a titty bar. Elizabeth isn't going to Chippendales with the girls. And in a regular nightclub, she's more than capable of saying no to drinks and dances from men. Women do it all the time.

Unless her man doesn't trust her.

I'm here for reasonable compromise. Reasonable. Not machismo.

6 hours ago, Real Eyes said:

People there don’t go to restaurants the same way they do in the West. That’s changing now. However because of that, your attitude is an example of the cultural chasm. No one who knows women from that part of the world would ever suggest  they are oppressed or restricted in their freedoms. 

If you can't go out to eat alone as a woman because you might be mistaken for a prostitute, that's a problem. Not my attitude.

Peopke try to excuse a whole lot of unseemly behavior by hiding behind culture.

Chasm indeed.

[3girlsforus]

On 11/20/2017 at 9:10 PM, Splithair said:

Yes, I agree completely! Evelyn is obnoxious and self-centered - but she's 18! And seems very sheltered. That does not make her a monster, it makes her an immature woman and again she's 18. I definitely question David's motives, but also her parents. They seem like nice people that care about their kids, why would they think this is a good idea? I get that it used to be common to marry that young, but Evelyn is obviously still quite immature. 

Something is off about David. He's a nice-looking guy, seems educated, etc., yet she's his first 'real' relationship?

This is his first real relationship AND he went trolling on the internet for a teenage virgin bride who was underage when they started dating. There is something very off about all of it. 

[spankydoll]

15 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

This is his first real relationship AND he went trolling on the internet for a teenage virgin bride who was underage when they started dating. There is something very off about all of it. 

I think that David was actually in Thailand setting up the fantasy travel business that he owns with Chris. Supporting his wife and kids aren't a big priority for him. I know lots of guys like that

[Neurochick]

14 hours ago, LocalGovt said:

The things you say about Luis may be true.  

As far as Kensley goes, you don't learn to be a brat that like that 5 seconds (even if Luis did deserve it).   She's been a brat for probably most of her life.   That is most probably due to her mom. I'm sure her mom tells her that her attitude is cute.  (Again, take the interactions with Luis out of it).  I have young kids -- girls.  I would be embarrassed if they acted like that child (attitude wise).  

I agree, Kensley is a brat, but Luis doesn't like children.  

My UO is I feel uncomfortable about this belief that he's a molester/abuser/rapist in training.  It feels a lot like "everybody's picking on the brown guy" to me, especially with Olivia's nasty xenophobic comment.  Girlfriend needs to shut it because she doesn't look 100% white to me at all.

I think the problem is Molly.

[3girlsforus]

13 minutes ago, spankydoll said:

I think that David was actually in Thailand setting up the fantasy travel business that he owns with Chris. Supporting his wife and kids aren't a big priority for him. I know lots of guys like that

That’s David Poor. I was talking about David Spain who found Evelyn via her FB page when she was 16 and he was 26. That’s sick

[spankydoll]

2 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

That’s David Poor. I was talking about David Spain who found Evelyn via her FB page when she was 16 and he was 26. That’s sick

Ohhh. Sorry. Too many David's acting badly. 

[zenme]

Luis comes off as a crude and a  street type person.  He's inappropriate, but I don't think he's a child molester. He's not a guy I'd personally bring home to meet mama, but still, I don't think he's a child molester. IMO, Molly should have offered Luis the spare room, or had Kensley temporarily share a room with Olivia for the 90 days to give the girls time to warm up to him. My mother sort of did to my brother and me what Molly has done with her girls, and I think I hated my stepfather and didn't give the relationship a fair shot because of it. At 12, my parents divorced in the spring, I spent the summer with my dad, and I had finally accepted the divorce. Then, my father drops me off after the summer, and lo and behold, my mother's new husband--who'd I'd never heard of or met, answers the door of what I still thought of as my father's home!  I call it irresponsible and I think it was hard to respect my mother or trust her after that.  For the sake of those girls, I hope Molly's girls wind up ok, but at 12 I understood how ridiculous my mom's choice was, and I'm sure Olivia is questioning her mother's judgment. 

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

My UO is I feel uncomfortable about this belief that he's a molester/abuser/rapist in training.  It feels a lot like "everybody's picking on the brown guy" to me . . . 

I think the problem is Molly.

In training?  He's already making a lot of us uncomfortable, so he may be more "in practice."  Maybe he's not . . . but his behaviors are concerning and someone needs to point out to him that one does not speak to or touch women/girls/ANYONE in a way that makes them uncomfortable.  His color has nothing to do with it.  

I do agree that the main problem is Molly.  Mama needs to step back a take a good look and listen to her girls.

[gunderda]

20 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

 I don't see any chemistry between them at all. Maybe because of their beliefs, they haven't even kissed yet?

(I don't know this to be true, I'm just speculating)

They've kissed a few times on the show.  The first time when he arrived at the airport.  And most recently on this last episode. 

17 hours ago, BeachyWave said:

Do we know for sure Molly/Luis and Evilen/David Spain actually got married this summer? I couldn't find any wedding announcements, but something tells me that might be prohibited by the TLC contract.

Now sure on Evelyn and David but if you go to the Molly/Luis thread you'll find your answer on that one (i think).

 

I really like Andrei. In fact I think I had a dream last night where I had my own Andrei, except he was even taller and a bit more "friendly". 

However he DID tell her that he doesn't think she needs a bachelorette party but I wonder if that's more that he just doesn't want to be left home alone? And he's probably see a bunch of ridiculous bride-to-be's at the bar he worked at so I'm sure he speaks from some experience. 

But I also have quite a few friends who are married that seem to allow their husbands to do whatever they want - hang out with friends all the time, go out drinking, but the moment they want to go out and have fun they either feel and don't want to stay out late (especially if they have kids) or the husbands get moody.  IT DRIVES ME CRAZY.  My best friend's husband I guess even told her that she doesn't need to go to a bar with her single friends (ie, me - but we don't ever go to bars anyways)

[Ivanova]

17 hours ago, Kangatush said:

He's the first foreign fiance to EVER mention bringing savings with him

Anfisa also mentioned she had savings and was living on them after she kicked Jorge out.

[Neurochick]

8 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

In training?  He's already making a lot of us uncomfortable, so he may be more "in practice."  Maybe he's not . . . but his behaviors are concerning and someone needs to point out to him that one does not speak to or touch women/girls/ANYONE in a way that makes them uncomfortable.  His color has nothing to do with it.  

I do agree that the main problem is Molly.  Mama needs to step back a take a good look and listen to her girls.

I just don't see Luis as an abuser, I just see him as having different boundaries.  Not everybody has the same boundaries.  The person I do have issues with is David of Spain, because he's a grown man and how old was Evelyn when he first began talking to her?  She's 18 NOW, but she would have been a minor when they started talking.  To me, Evelyn is a child and David is problematic for wanting to marry a child.

One thing I've noticed this season is many of the Americans are very fucked up.  Many of them seem anxious/entitled/immature/delusional/ignorant.

[AZChristian]

Just now, Neurochick said:

I just don't see Luis as an abuser, I just see him as having different boundaries.  Not everybody has the same boundaries.  The person I do have issues with is David of Spain, because he's a grown man and how old was Evelyn when he first began talking to her?  She's 18 NOW, but she would have been a minor when they started talking.  To me, Evelyn is a child and David is problematic for wanting to marry a child.

One thing I've noticed this season is many of the Americans are very fucked up.  Many of them seem anxious/entitled/immature/delusional/ignorant.

I don't disagree on the possibility of "different boundaries."  Maybe they're even cultural because he's from a different country.  I'd feel the same if he were from Moldova; my feelings are NOT because of his skin.  That doesn't mean he doesn't need to be made aware that his behaviors with minors may be inappropriate.

Mr. AZC and I met when I was 16 and he was 22.  We were engaged within two months and married within 8 (when I was 17).  We've been married 53 years.  We were from "different cultures" in a way.  I was from Baltimore, and he was from North Platte, Nebraska.  LOL.  

My take on both situations:  We see things through the lens of our lives.  I was molested as a child, and Luis' behaviors make me uncomfortable.  I was married at 17, and young marriage doesn't.

[brillia79]

So now that Luis has graduated to a molester/rapist/abuser "in practice," does anyone else want to tell me that no one is saying such things?

People are even treating Azan like a molester for changing a toddler's diaper - likely at Nicole's insistence.

Again, meanwhile, we have David Spain who groomed a 15 year old for a romantic relationship where everyone acts like he's the victim. And then there's Andrei, and the "dreamy" way he tells his woman where she can and can't go, while his woman keeps referencing his temper, his overstaying his visa, and his expectations that she be like a traditional Moldovan woman.

[Neurochick]

2 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I don't disagree on the possibility of "different boundaries."  Maybe they're even cultural because he's from a different country.  I'd feel the same if he were from Moldova; my feelings are NOT because of his skin.  That doesn't mean he doesn't need to be made aware that his behaviors with minors may be inappropriate.

I think Luis, where Olivia is concerned, is that he doesn't see her as a minor.  As you said you yourself married at 17, Olivia's age.  Maybe he sees girls marry and have families at 16 and 17, and doesn't see girls that age as minors.  As for Molly's other daughter, I didn't see it as sexual abuse when he pushed her in the swing; I saw it as discounting the feelings of a child.  I still see little children get smacked if they "mouth off" to adults.  

It's wrong of Molly to want Luis to be the "stepfather" to these two girls.  That's what I feel is wrong.  He's not mature enough to be anybody's father, step or not.

[merylinkid]

11 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

To me, Evelyn is a child and David is problematic for wanting to marry a child.

But Olivia who is actually a minor, unlike Evelyn has to put up with Luis being VERY inappropriate because of "different boundaries?"   No means no.   You don't get to say "different boundaries" so I'm allowed to make you uncomfortable.   Once she and Kinsley who is SIX made it clear they had THEIR boundaries, which are deserving of respect too.

I don't know if Luis just doesn't get it or is really a creep, but either one is not acceptable.   He needs to knock it off.   And Mama needs to open her damn eyes and protect her kids.   Period.

[Neurochick]

6 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

But Olivia who is actually a minor, unlike Evelyn has to put up with Luis being VERY inappropriate because of "different boundaries?"   No means no.   You don't get to say "different boundaries" so I'm allowed to make you uncomfortable.   Once she and Kinsley who is SIX made it clear they had THEIR boundaries, which are deserving of respect too.

I don't know if Luis just doesn't get it or is really a creep, but either one is not acceptable.   He needs to knock it off.   And Mama needs to open her damn eyes and protect her kids.   Period.

I just agree with what AZChristian said, that we see things through the lenses of our lives.  I say Luis has different boundaries, someone else may say that  he's close to being an abuser.  Both opinions can be right. 

But what everybody seems to agree on  is that Molly needs to step up, because when Luis was pushing Kinsley in the swing and Kinsley said he had to stand BEHIND her, notice Molly did nothing.  She didn't correct Luis.  

Why would Luis think he was doing anything wrong?

[zenme]

I didn't see Kensly as being uncomfortable, I read her as being ticked off that Luis didn't know how to swing a kid. She was annoyed because he wasn't pushing her from behind. She wanted to really swing and he was to her side and hardly pushing her.  As we've seen, Kensley is very adamant about what she wants and doesn't want. I would bet that had she really felt uncomfortable, she would have yelled for her mother, or expressed herself. She didn't. She told him to swing her by pushing her from behind.

[calpurnia99]

I don't think Molly and Luis have anything in common except fucking. Can Molly talk to Luis about anything important to her? I once dated a Latino guy who was a few years younger. Sex was great but after about 6 weeks I realized the guy had no brains at all. He was just plain dumb. I see Molly eventually realizing that Luis shares none of her opinions or can even follow her train of thought or interests. I don't think she is an intellectual, however she did start a business so she has some smarts. Her dumb girl accent and voice makes you think she is dumb she is not.  I think Luis has no smarts at all,  so they really will have nothing to talk about. Part of this is the age difference. But also they are just not compatible intelligence-wise.

Once the thrill of fucking wears off she is going to realize she married a total fool and she has nothing in common with him. I don't think Luis is an abuser, I think he is just STUPID. Has no idea that you don't talk like that to a 17 year old. Even after being told he insists it is perfectly fine. He has no common sense. This is going to really wear on Molly when it happens over and over again concerning various subjects a married couple will run into.

Edited November 22, 2017 by calpurnia99

[Bryce Lynch]

46 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

So now that Luis has graduated to a molester/rapist/abuser "in practice," does anyone else want to tell me that no one is saying such things?

People are even treating Azan like a molester for changing a toddler's diaper - likely at Nicole's insistence.

Again, meanwhile, we have David Spain who groomed a 15 year old for a romantic relationship where everyone acts like he's the victim. And then there's Andrei, and the "dreamy" way he tells his woman where she can and can't go, while his woman keeps referencing his temper, his overstaying his visa, and his expectations that she be like a traditional Moldovan woman.

I don't think Luis has graduated to rapist, etc. but his behavior has been very creepy and inappropriate.

I don't have a problem with Azan changing diapers if May's mother approves. 

Do we know that David Spain has been chatting online or whatever with Evelyn for 3 years, since she was 15?  At this point she is 18 and her parents approve of the marriage, so right now I can't really complain about the current state of their relationship.  But if some 20 something guy was sniffing around my 15 year old daughter, online, I'd have a big problem with it.  

We haven't really seen Andrrrei's temper, so many think that is something of an invention or exaggeration of Elizabeth's.  I think her idea of "like a traditional Moldovan woman" means not staying out clubbing till 4:00 AM.  To me that is more the definition of a traditional married person, whether male or female.   

[Porkchop]

10 hours ago, Real Eyes said:

No one who knows women from that part of the world would ever suggest  they are oppressed or restricted in their freedoms. 

I read recently that in Russia, there are 450 professions that women cannot participate in. Surely that's oppression.

[funky-rat]

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 10:26 PM, Miss Chevious said:

Azan: I'm 55% attracted to her.

Nicole: You like me just the way I am, right? 

Miscommunication much? Nicole, he's not that into you. She just doesn't get it. And Azan, she's not going to change. Not for you or anybody. You can try to take her to the gym but you can't make her exercise. It's just not her thing.

I think som

e of the issue with Nicole is that someone has been riding her about her weight, eating, losing weight, etc, for some time now (not Azan - maybe her mom or sister - not sure), and she's so sick of it that she's digging her heels in a the very thought.  My mom, who is not thin, spent most of my first 18 years yo-yo dieting, losing and re-gaining 100+ pounds several times.  And every time, the whole crew would diet with her (except for the time she did the liquid diet, but we had to follow a special plan).  To this day, she will watch my plate when I eat (despite her not being thin), criticize what I'm doing, make comments, etc.  She rarely follows her own advice, and bristles when I offer her advice I've gotten from a dietician that contradicts what she says.  There was a time when I was very large because I was out of her control, and I ate what I damn well pleased.  It didn't work out well for me, and I've taken a fair amount off, but I also have PCOS, and it's difficult for me to lose weight (but I gain just by looking at food, it seems).  Mr. Funky was similar.  His mother would buy good food for herself and keep it under lock and key, and eat it in front of him, but give him garbage.  So when he was away from her, he did what he wanted, and dug his heels in when I began to get concerned about what he ate.  Thankfully, he's also getting over it, but old habits die hard, and sometimes he reverts back.  My mother always thinks she's being helpful, but she doesn't get it.  I'm in my 40's, and she can still make me feel like I'm 12 years old.  I'm not defending Nicole on much of anything, but I do think someone somewhere has been really digging at her, and she's not going to give in with Azan's constant jabs.

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 10:39 PM, calpurnia99 said:

David Spain was right that you can do everything with music online and there are music producers in every town in America. In a big city, she would actually find plenty of talented music producers.  She could still collaborate with this man from another place. She does this weird breathy thing when she sings- she needs voice lessons. 

 

She's going to damage her vocal cords permanently.  There are producers everywhere, but not ones that think she can actually sing.......

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 11:14 PM, Desert Rat said:

What's wrong with a family ring?  My wedding band was worn by my husband's grandmother. I think my ring is very special, and I don't new a huge, expensive new diamond to know my husband loves me. 

I have the ring set Mr. Funky's late dad (who died when Mr. Funky was 10) gave to his mother (evil as she was), but that's different.  When she re-married, she got different rings.  Had they gotten divorced (instead of him passing away), I'd have felt differently about taking it.

 

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 2:04 AM, gavinmac said:

If Andrrrrrei was living in Ireland on a student visa, doesn't that mean university student? If so, why is his goal to be a truck driver? I have nothing against truck drivers, but why wouldn't he pursue a career in his field of study, something that might have a higher financial ceiling and not require him to be away from home all the time (if he's talking about long distance truck driving)? 

It's hard to control your subservient wife's every move when she's at home and you're hauling oranges from Florida to Minneapolis.

Truck Drivers can actually make some serious bank.  Lots of companies pay nice sign-on bonuses (Mr. Funky used to work in the trucking industry).  Especially living in Tampa, where you're near water, and boats will be dropping off freight.  If he wants to go the owner/operator route, he can do well too.  There are lots of companies that will give you routes that allow you to be home every night.  There's never  a shortage of driving jobs, and it's a skill you can literally take anywhere.  I say good for him.

 

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 10:38 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree that the cracks about Evelyn's physical appearance are unfounded.  She is an attractive young woman.  The water buffalo crack was about her singing voice, and I totally agree that her voice is horrid.  

I don't find Andrrrei to be all that controlling.  David seems more controlling than him, but since he isn't a hulking Eastern European guy, he gets away with it more.  

If it's OK to slam Nicole for her weight and appearance, and Davie Poor for being diabetic (possibly) and an alcoholic, then everyone is open season.  While I hate the term "Fat Shaming", picking on heavy people and then saying it's not right to pick on a thin person is hypocritical.  I do agree on David Spain being controlling, though.  Something about him gives me a bad vibe.

 

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 4:18 PM, KateHearts said:

Where has it been shown that Molly is an alcoholic?

There are some articles that have been linked (perhaps in her own thread) where she's had several DUI's and has no drivers license.

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 6:03 PM, spankydoll said:

Are those the LuLu LaRue pants that I see on FB all of the time? I think that they are plus size gear because my zaftig friends all seem to have purchased a franchise.

LuLaRoe aren't just for plus size people - they carry all sizes.  They only carry one plus size, and I've never tried them because I think they're hideous, they're ludicrously expensive, and some of them, depending on where they're made, fall apart quickly.  But like any other MLM thing, the market got saturated, and it's now on it's way back down.  Consultants getting out of it left and right.

 

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 10:20 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I had the same feeling about Luis pushing Kensley from the front.  It felt like he was pushing her near her crotch area, though in his defense, the swing covered up Kensley very well.  I have never seen a child swing with so much security.  I looked like something you might strap astronauts into on a moonshot.  I guess helicopter parents and personal injury lawyers are causing a lot of things to get redesigned. 

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 11:21 PM, Christina said:

No one has said that. Someone pointed out that she is moving a relative stranger, who as far as this show has said, she has seen TWICE before bringing him here, into her home with her young daughters. Others discussed the statistics of crimes against children being committed by the non-biological partner of their parent, and some of us think Luis behaves inappropriately toward these kids, because he is A STRANGER, not because he is obviously a pedophile. In my opinion, his behavior with both the sex talk to Olivia and his behavior toward Kensley about him being her father and when he was in her personal space and wouldn't take her out of the swing deserves comment and Molly has made it clear that she certainly isn't going to do it

Things in this forum keep getting twisted and misconstrued so I've went back and reread several pages. It happens a lot for this show, and I think it is because we have such a diverse group of people commenting. The "Luis is a pedophile" happened in a prior week, and no one had called him a pedophile, just mentioned that the risk of him being one is increased and MOLLY was the one being shamed and ridiculed, for not trying to make the transition easier on her kids. It was pointed out that Olivia was closer in age so may have more in common, and that seemed to be largely in response to people saying Molly and Luis didn't seem to have anything in common, which has been said in every episode thread, because we still haven't seen anything. Asking why May is still in diapers was directed at the failure of Nicole, her biological parent (come now, she's not doing the heavy lifting as far as parenting goes), for not training her, not at the little girl for not being able to do it.

I doubt there will ever be an episode where Molly and Nicole won't be shamed for something, because they certainly aren't coming across well, and neither is Luis. If the behavior of Molly and Luis is at the direction of production, they should say, "Hell no!" when asked to do things that clearly make the kids uncomfortable. Nicole doesn't need to be directed to do something stupid because she does it all on her own and speaks without thinking.

Snarking on the people who sign up for this show, knowing how it is probably going to be edited, should be fun not irritating. I've mis-typed a few times, and not realized it until someone quoted it asking what I was saying. It's unlikely to improve anytime soon, since I'm in an MS flare and have trouble typing, spelling, thinking, concentrating...you know what? I have moonshine, that should fix all these problems. I don't have a problem explaining why I think Luis is inappropriate, but it doesn't seem like many people here are finding no fault with him, just don't think he should be being called a pedophile, when he hasn't. 

1 hour ago, zenme said:

I didn't see Kensly as being uncomfortable, I read her as being ticked off that Luis didn't know how to swing a kid. She was annoyed because he wasn't pushing her from behind. She wanted to really swing and he was to her side and hardly pushing her.  As we've seen, Kensley is very adamant about what she wants and doesn't want. I would bet that had she really felt uncomfortable, she would have yelled for her mother, or expressed herself. She didn't. She told him to swing her by pushing her from behind.

As mentioned prior, those swings are for special needs kids who may be older or larger than your average kid, and need to be kept secure.  I'm not sure if he's just a moron and snapped her in there because he didn't know better, or if he thought it was funny.  Count me among those who think Luis is a Grade A Asshole, but not a perv.  While the Olivia talk was NOT OK, I think he was trying to act like one of her teenage friends, seeing an opportunity to appear "cool" to her, and she did give him the vibe that she felt that way when she asked if he'd cover for her.  As for Kinsley, he had to snap her in to that swing.  That's where the closure is (the crotch area), so I didn't see anything bad.  I think he has a severe disliking for Kensley ever since her "You're not my dad and I don't like you" fit (which was somewhat deserved - he made that comment way too soon, and it probably shouldn't have been said at all), and so he's getting a bit of a kick out of seeing her upset.  Again, NOT COOL, but it just makes him an ass, not a perv.  And it makes Molly an ass for not stepping in and telling him to knock it off.  He said he's bored and wants to go home, so I think he should just go.  That won't happen, but it's what SHOULD happen.

On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 11:47 AM, Sugar said:

Also, re: Annie. I live in Thailand, and no - it's not possible to just move to a big city and find an office job and move in with some girlfriends. Thais have a status system (and caste), and if you're a poor farmer's daughter from a small village, you have zero legitimate prospects. You can continue to farm, or you can become a bar girl, and that's about it. I would be very surprised if Annie even has a high school education; in most of the families I knew with backgrounds similar to Annie's, the kids were taken out of school at around 12 or 13 to help with the workload. Even working at a Starbucks or KFC - it's a somewhat coveted job because it's guaranteed wages, and the university kids in my city say it's competitive to work in fast food or hospitality. Actually, the only other option Annie would have is if she moved from her village to a tourist city or one of the islands and found work at a resort, either as a maid or server, in which case she'd get to share a tiny room with several other girls, work 10-12 hours, and make around $25-30 a day. If you're not wanting to spread your legs for some old white foreigner, this is the other path that's available. It's hard work, and it's sad because workers don't get to go home to visit their families very often, and marriage prospects are almost non-existent unless the family sets up a match for you. Yes, in a sense Annie chose David and the life that goes along with him, but in another sense, she really had very limited options available to her, especially if her primary concern is to care and provide for her family.
 

Someone I know had a foreign exchange student from Thailand a number of years ago.  The family lives in a rural community - lots of farming - and the girl was from a big city, and she was amazed that the farmers weren't looked down on, and that other kids were friends with them, they had the same opportunities to go to college, etc, so yes, the caste system is alive and well there.

19 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Great idea.  Nothing illegal, and David Poor seems to be only 2 or 3 Twinkies away from the grave.  Of course, if he survives but stays in the coma, Annie might get stuck with his medical bills.

I've seen a lot of posts like this, so I'm not picking on this particular poster - just didn't want to quote them all.  This is one thing that chafes me, and it's not this forum only, but someone decided in the past few years that Type 2 Diabetes is a treasure trove of hilarity.  I see memes on social media all the time about it, and because of it, I constantly have people asking me about my "Diebeeetus" and asking me if I should be eating certain things, or telling me that if I just lost weight, it would all go away, etc.  T2D is not strictly a fat person's disease, although it seems to be hitting larger people more recently.  My doctor and a number of leading endocrinologists and scientists are starting to think it's in what we're eating - either a hormone, or chemical or something, but there's something out there that's making it rise at an alarming rate.  T2D runs strong in my family, starting with my grandfather (and probably before, but it wasn't well understood before the early 1900's, so there was no diagnosis before him).  To make matters worse, I was born after my father was exposed to Agent Orange during the Viet-Nam war, which is causing my PCOS and other weight related issues, and upped my T2D risk exponentially (there are studies currently underway on us 2nd gen AO kids, and they're alarming).  Hell, even the T1D's out there pick on us and kick us out of support groups, because we "chose" Diabetes by bad lifestyle choices, and we're getting the lion's share of research budgets, etc (even though that's not true).  I get the need to want to snark on it, but just take 2 seconds the next time you want to say something to a T2D person who you don't think is doing what they should.  I have no use for David Poor, but as someone else said, he's drinking himself to death, so a few Twinkies aren't going to do it.  Now back to your regularly scheduled snark.

18 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Check their thread on this forum for details.  

Yep.  Their storyline is 100% MFTV drama.

Edited November 22, 2017 by funky-rat
Forgot a point.

[jenifaohjenny]

I keep screaming at the TV screen when Evelyn and David are on!!  There are plenty of places nearby they could even move!  I know David maybe wants warmer weather, but there are cool places on the Seacoast of NH (Portsmouth) or even in Northern MA that they could move to and maybe it would be a bit more exciting.  I will be very interested if they ever find an apartment for $900 - it is hard to find rentals so the market is not in their favor. 

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, calpurnia99 said:

I don't think Molly and Luis have anything in common except fucking. Can Molly talk to Luis about anything important to her? I once dated a Latino guy who was a few years younger. Sex was great but after about 6 weeks I realized the guy had no brains at all. He was just plain dumb. I see Molly eventually realizing that Luis shares none of her opinions or can even follow her train of thought or interests. I don't think she is an intellectual, however she did start a business so she has some smarts. Her dumb girl accent and voice makes you think she is dumb she is not.  I think Luis has no smarts at all,  so they really will have nothing to talk about. Part of this is the age difference. But also they are just not compatible intelligence-wise.

Once the thrill of fucking wears off she is going to realize she married a total fool and she has nothing in common with him. I don't think Luis is an abuser, I think he is just STUPID. Has no idea that you don't talk like that to a 17 year old. Even after being told he insists it is perfectly fine. He has no common sense. This is going to really wear on Molly when it happens over and over again concerning various subjects a married couple will run into.

Well said.  

My issue with Luis and Molly's daughters doesn't have to do with molestation, but how Molly seems to have forced him on them.  I compare Molly and Luis to Melanie and Devar from last season.  For one, Melanie and Devar had more in common than sex and Melanie's son welcomed Devar more as a pal than a father, since he already had a father.  I think Molly should have brought her daughters to DR to meet Luis and his family, instead of forcing him onto them.  

[Ivanova]

13 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Any woman who dined alone was considered a hooker.  When I told him I wanted to invite another Russian Lady in her 30s to lunch, he told me that “Ludmilla might be shocked because women in Russia didn’t go out to restaurants without male companions.”

I can assure you that it's not true and never was ☺

[Nowhere]

5 hours ago, brillia79 said:

Men are trying to find women for sex everywhere. As we've seen in the media lately, it happens in the workplace rather frequently.

There's also a world of difference between a nightclub and a titty bar. Elizabeth isn't going to Chippendales with the girls. And in a regular nightclub, she's more than capable of saying no to drinks and dances from men. Women do it all the time.

Unless her man doesn't trust her.

I'm here for reasonable compromise. Reasonable. Not machismo.

If you can't go out to eat alone as a woman because you might be mistaken for a prostitute, that's a problem. Not my attitude.

Peopke try to excuse a whole lot of unseemly behavior by hiding behind culture.

Chasm indeed.

I think you're missing the point I was trying to make. Some women don't have a problem with their boyfriends going to strip clubs or "titty bars".  I used that as an example of something I'm not ok with. That doesn't make it wrong if you are ok with it. 

You admit that women get harrassed by men everywhere and then you say that it's matter of trust when a husband doesn't want his wife going to a place where most men are there for the purspose of finding sex. It may be that he doesn't want her in a situation like that for her own safety. Sometimes saying no to drunk, horny men doesn't work. 

If your husband is cool with it then great. But what if he changed his mind tomorrow? Does that make him automatically controlling? I don't think it does. Neither situation is wrong. Everybody is different.

If Andrei said he didn't want her going out to lunch without him I'd think that was controlling. But clubs are very different than most everything else she could do on a girls night. There are plenty of other options. 

[brillia79]

14 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

You admit that women get harrassed by men everywhere and then you say that it's matter of trust when a husband doesn't want his wife going to a place where most men are there for the purspose of finding sex. It may be that he doesn't want her in a situation like that for her own safety. Sometimes saying no to drunk, horny men doesn't work. 

By that logic, women shouldn't be allowed out anywhere. A husband can't stop the behaviors of random men in public. Their concerns should not result in restricting the comings and goings of women. That is not practical at all. Justifying such restrictions by saying it's out of concern is paternalistic.

Men catcall women on the streets while they are walking to work, running errands, etc. Women don't even have to be dressed "like they're asking for it." If the response to protect women from catcalling was to say that women can't go to work anymore, that would be ridiculous.

Its not that I've missed the point. It's that I'm stripping it down to the basics, which makes it less palatable.

[brillia79]

54 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Well said.  

My issue with Luis and Molly's daughters doesn't have to do with molestation, but how Molly seems to have forced him on them.  I compare Molly and Luis to Melanie and Devar from last season.  For one, Melanie and Devar had more in common than sex and Melanie's son welcomed Devar more as a pal than a father, since he already had a father.  I think Molly should have brought her daughters to DR to meet Luis and his family, instead of forcing him onto them.  

Does no one thing to have the fiancé visit before applying for the K1 visa? I know the travel costs more money, but it seems like an important step when kids are involved. And the first time the kids meet the fiancé, it should not be under the roof of their home. Put them up in a hotel.

But that would be too much of a burden. It's better to just rush into a marriage.

Theoretically, I have no issue with Nicole taking May to Morocco. In practice, Nicole is a moron who is too lazy and self centered to parent.

But ideally, the kids meet the fiancé before the 90 day countdown clock starts.

Edited November 22, 2017 by brillia79
How the heck do we combine quoted posts to avoid double posting?

[mamadrama]

16 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

Does no one thing to have the fiancé visit before applying for the K1 visa? I know the travel costs more money, but it seems like an important step when kids are involved. And the first time the kids meet the fiancé, it should not be under the roof of their home. Put them up in a hotel.

But that would be too much of a burden. It's better to just rush into a marriage.

Theoretically, I have no issue with Nicole taking May to Morocco. In practice, Nicole is a moron who is too lazy and self centered to parent.

But ideally, the kids meet the fiancé before the 90 day countdown clock starts.

For some people, getting a tourist visa to visit the US might be next to impossible. Countries with visa waiver programs don't have this issue, of course. But I still totally agree with you! If you can't bring Mohammed to the mountain, take the mountain to Mohammad. (No offense, Danielle.) These people could've taken their kids to that person's country to meet them. 

Actually, we don't know that they didn't. From what we heard from this past episode, Andrei and Elizabeth had apparently spent time in HIS country before he came to the US and from what we know from her spoiler-friendly thread...

TL/DR: Some of this BS may be fake. People should meet the fam long before the wedding day. 

[brillia79]

Just now, mamadrama said:

For some people, getting a tourist visa to visit the US might be next to impossible. Countries with visa waiver programs don't have this issue, of course. But I still totally agree with you! If you can't bring Mohammed to the mountain, take the mountain to Mohammad. (No offense, Danielle.) These people could've taken their kids to that person's country to meet them. 

Actually, we don't know that they didn't. From what we heard from this past episode, Andrei and Elizabeth had apparently spent time in HIS country before he came to the US and from what we know from her spoiler-friendly thread...

TL/DR: Some of this BS may be fake. People should meet the fam long before the wedding day. 

True about things being fake. But I'm less concerned about Elizabeth and Andrei here because she's an adult (or at least playing one on TV), and neither of them has children.

It would not surprise me if Azan weren't able to easily get a tourist visa to the US. I'd be a little surprised if Luis couldn't get one, but only a little surprised.

I almost certain they're easier to get if you are coming from Europe.

[mamadrama]

3 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

True about things being fake. But I'm less concerned about Elizabeth and Andrei here because she's an adult (or at least playing one on TV), and neither of them has children.

It would not surprise me if Azan weren't able to easily get a tourist visa to the US. I'd be a little surprised if Luis couldn't get one, but only a little surprised.

I almost certain they're easier to get if you are coming from Europe.

Europeans don't need visas because they travel on the VWP. They can stay here for up to 90 days on nothing but their passports. 

[Nowhere]

48 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

By that logic, women shouldn't be allowed out anywhere. A husband can't stop the behaviors of random men in public. Their concerns should not result in restricting the comings and goings of women. That is not practical at all. Justifying such restrictions by saying it's out of concern is paternalistic.

Men catcall women on the streets while they are walking to work, running errands, etc. Women don't even have to be dressed "like they're asking for it." If the response to protect women from catcalling was to say that women can't go to work anymore, that would be ridiculous.

Its not that I've missed the point. It's that I'm stripping it down to the basics, which makes it less palatable.

You're turning it into something it's not. Since you brought up logic, try to stick to the topic instead of attacking a straw man. I'm not arguing whether or not women should leave the house or if they get catcalled. Bringing up how a woman is dressed as if "asking for it" is irrelevant and a possible red herring. I'm only talking about respecting your partner's wishes. I am not arguing women's rights, free the nipple, or any other feminist issue. I know them all and I'm probably one of the biggest feminists you'd know if you ever met me. It's just simply not what I'm talking about in this instance and if you want to respond to what I am saying, I welcome it, but don't make it something it isn't. I'm ONLY saying that giving up club night as a married woman is not that big of a deal. Andrei said he is also giving up club night as a married man, so there are no double standards. 

But since you want to talk about it, the fact is, there are places that are less safe for women than other places. I'm just glad you are still unaware of that fact because that means nothing terrible has happened to you. That's a good thing and we can agree to disagree.